after last Sunday? I only ask this because we actually drafted him no. 1 and while he puts up lots of nice stats he has never won and I think I see the reason why. Again, my own personal opinion, but to me he is a whiner and a guy who yells at his teammates and points fingers. He has never won a big game and I was actually disgusted watching him against the Pats.
I cannot, for any reason, think Eli would do anything remotely similar on the field nor has he ever really done that. Consequently, I am thrilled beyond words that we traded Rivers for Eli. Romo called Rivers the ultimate competitor as I was watching Rivers yell at the refs, yell at his teammates etc. I found that hilarious because I have viewed Romo in the same light...a guy who put up great stats but never won when it counted. In addition, saying someone is competitive simply because they seem to be passionate in terms of yelling at others during a big game is a JOKE!!!
The Chargers had probably the most talented team left in the playoffs and yet they came up short, in a huge way, again. If this was the Giants, we know who would get the blame. Well, in the same vein, to me, LA lost because of a lack of leadership and play from their supposedly much better QB. Not a Chargers fan but I would be embarrassed by that display from your leader. Not saying his teammates didn't deserve criticism but to see the way they folded and never even put up a fight...to me that is a reflection on your leaders.
He has been to the playoffs a lot, but this was the first time I actually thought he had a good team around him that wasn't completely devastated by injuries. I was surprised to see them get blown out.
Rivers played average, but he was also playing from behind the entire game because the Chargers defense couldn't make a stop.
Well said.
For my sake, I'm thrilled we made that trade - there were definitely times when Rivers rubbed me the wrong way, while Eli has been a class act (or, perhaps better said, "a mensch") from day one.
He's a talented QB and certainly a guy who could win a championship with the right talent around him. I don't think he is holding the Chargers back, but he is also not putting them over the top with clutch play at crucial times. I just can't think of any signature River's moments other than great regular season games.
...QB.
There's no doubt the guy is a talented player but I think his stature is elevated some due to the crowd of people who enjoy watching the guy scream and think it means anything good.
I think for the most part he's had it pretty good in SoCal. Terrific offensive talent. Marty then Norv Turner. He's been surrounded by a lot of good football players and coaches. The biggest issues he's had to deal with have been poor injury luck around him and the relocation. Then again, show me a QB who doesn't have to deal with the former.
Solid career, HOF worthy. Slightly overrated due to the douchebaggery he provides on the field that so many eat up.
There's no doubt the guy is a talented player but I think his stature is elevated some due to the crowd of people who enjoy watching the guy scream and think it means anything good.
I think for the most part he's had it pretty good in SoCal. Terrific offensive talent. Marty then Norv Turner. He's been surrounded by a lot of good football players and coaches. The biggest issues he's had to deal with have been poor injury luck around him and the relocation. Then again, show me a QB who doesn't have to deal with the former.
Solid career, HOF worthy. Slightly overrated due to the douchebaggery he provides on the field that so many eat up.
I think this is a pretty fair assessment.
...QB.
I like Rivers and I think he’s a very good player.. with all that said he doesn’t belong in the HOF IMO
Agree that the lost isn't on Rivers, at least not entirely.
Haven't rewatched the game yet, but read how the Pats figured out that the Chargers biggest defensive liability was in RB coverage and short passes to the flat or quick slants. The quick short passing game certainly neutralizes a good pass rush every time. They also mixed up the run game well with a combination of outside zone runs and traps inside. I think the win goes to Bill Belichick and McDaniels once again for recognizing and attacking a team's weakness, but you can't also help but recognize that the Pats had a TON of effort plays - great blocks (especially downfield) and extra effort to reach the first down marker. Early on I lost count of how many times they threw it short of the sticks on first down and then relied on the receiver to break tackles (which they did).
I think the NE team had a chip on their shoulder and the LAC thought they were the better team and got caught unprepared.
In other words, I think they were out-coached as much as out-played.
Unfortunately for Rivers he never has had a breakout game/run in the playoffs, always being pedestrian.
Definitely HOF consideration should be given, and he probably gets there based on stats.
The third best QB of the 2004 draft, which was a great QB class.
I imagine if Brady/Belicheck weren't the force they were, one of his Charger teams may have pulled out a Lombardi - in the end, glad things worked out the way they did.
In 04' he was not what I wanted with that 5 pick.
NY Media and fan base can be unusually brutal given the sheer size of the market, amount of competition for a story and the amount of coverage/attention, so his behavior had him categorized as a "would implode if he were in NY" player in my mind. Might be unfair, but that's where I landed him.
I've also wondered if his stats would be anywhere close to where they are if he had to play more games in bad weather. He's held up well playing in Denver and KC, so might only be a % or 2 reduction in comp %, etc.
That’s a good assessment. He’s a tough SOB, too. Can really hang in there, wait as long as possible, throw, and then take the hit. And the ball somehow lands on a dime. Very unorthodox like Bernie Kosar was.
HAHAHA
I would have been happy with any one of the big 3. Happy to have Eli but I would have been just as happy if Rivers had won 2 SBs and only got to the playoffs a handful of times.
It really makes you appreciate how Coughlin navigated us through the Playoffs. Never got big-gamed, never got caught with collective pants down. Ready to go. Sure the 05 Playoff Game but Giants didn't have the horses.
To get blown out in a Playoff game like the Chargers did - when you have a great team - was an organizational failure. There is a reason the Mannings didn't want to go to San Diego. I also harken back to the comments D.J. Fluker made when he got here. They don't give a sh#t. It's a losing organization. Rivers never had a chance.
I texted him when Rivers was going through his histrionics while constantly under pressure on Sunday and asked how that was working out for him. I'm still waiting on a reply
Rivers is a great QB whose teams have underperformed in the playoffs. Some of that is on him, some isn't.
He has been to the playoffs a lot, but this was the first time I actually thought he had a good team around him that wasn't completely devastated by injuries. I was surprised to see them get blown out.
Rivers played average, but he was also playing from behind the entire game because the Chargers defense couldn't make a stop.
Agree 100% Chargers have not been a good organization
Rivers is clearly good enough to win it all It's too bad
they were not able to build a good enough team around him
I think he gets another shot next season there isn't a lot of competition for the top spot KC Pats Titans Texans Broncos nobody stands out .
Interesting thought...I wonder if he would have been able to perform under Gilbride. Arm strength may have been a liability. Don't know...thought just crossed my mind.
Interesting. Such as?
Sure you can. After an opening drive touchdown, the Chargers punted on their next five series, which included three 3-and-outs and no drive that got more than 26 yards. The defense was getting their asses kicked in, and then were suddenly right back on the field.
By comparison, Eli drove the Giants across midfield in 4 of their first 5 series. But thanks to some bad drops, we managed a mere six points.
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from NFL rule changes.
Interesting. Such as?
Overall rules that protect the QB and WRs... Rules of the game that favor the offense...that kinda stuff. Is he tough enough to stick it out in an era when the defense was allowed to hammer the QB? Does he have the arm strength to squeeze the ball into a tight window when DBs were allowed to actually play defense on a receiver? Can he play in an offense that doesn't feature borderline illegal pick plays? I mean it's just not Rivers that benefits. Today's NFL allows mediocre QBs to put up insane numbers. You just don't have the special once-in-awhile QB anymore.
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but he plays better in the regular season than the playoffs. The great's elevate their game in the postseason. What people never mention in regards to Rivers is that he played in the weakest division among the 2004 class and that he came to a stacked team with championship aspirations. Plus they had a better HOF QB on the roster that they just lost for nothing. The better decision would have been to keep Brees and trade away Rivers.
The better decision would have been to keep Brees and trade away Rivers. LOL... Ya THINK??
You think that this is obvious to everyone but there are some who foolishly consider Brees a dome QB and going with the younger Rivers was the better decision.
He has had some electric offenses done in by horrific special teams play or defense.
If he had the OLine and defense that Roethlisberger had consistently during his career, I think he'd have multiple rings.
It always drove me crazy that Rivers (and others) was praised as passionate for being an asshole on the field whereas Eli gets ridiculed as a Forrest Gump type just because he keeps his emotions in check on the field and doesn't publicly shame his teammates.
He has had some electric offenses done in by horrific special teams play or defense.
If he had the OLine and defense that Roethlisberger had consistently during his career, I think he'd have multiple rings.
It always drove me crazy that Rivers (and others) was praised as passionate for being an asshole on the field whereas Eli gets ridiculed as a Forrest Gump type just because he keeps his emotions in check on the field and doesn't publicly shame his teammates.
I've always found this strange, as well.
He has been to the playoffs a lot, but this was the first time I actually thought he had a good team around him that wasn't completely devastated by injuries. I was surprised to see them get blown out.
Rivers played average, but he was also playing from behind the entire game because the Chargers defense couldn't make a stop.
After the trade wasn't the consensus, especially in Rivers first playoff run they had the best talent? No or am I remembering wrong?
He is a really good player who has been there every Sunday and that matters
We knew after the 2004 draft, that these three guys were always going to be compared to one another. If you are looking purely at statistics, they will all probably finish their careers in the top 10 of most passing categories. The championships (and I meant that plural) will always separate Ben and Eli from Rivers.
I believe this was the year for Rivers to make a statement and his team didn't show up last week in Foxboro.
F him. I hope he never gets into the HOF. If Rivers gets in the HOF and Eli doesn’t, I’ll be really pissed off.
No QB has ever made the pro bowl without an all-pro team or a SB appearance.
Good luck Philip.
Having said that, Eli's disposition is much better suited for a career in NYC and the Giants made the right choice
Give the guy a break, he has 8 kids. Of course he's screaming all the time.
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The halftime score was 35-7.. if the Giants defense ever played that way we wouldn’t have won any of our playoff games. If that were the Giants these people would be killing the head coach and Defense.. People here seem to think Eli played well in a game we lost 38-17
Sure you can. After an opening drive touchdown, the Chargers punted on their next five series, which included three 3-and-outs and no drive that got more than 26 yards. The defense was getting their asses kicked in, and then were suddenly right back on the field.
By comparison, Eli drove the Giants across midfield in 4 of their first 5 series. But thanks to some bad drops, we managed a mere six points.
Name the playoffs games where the Giants defense gave up 35 points at the 1/2.. You can’t be serious the Giants won there 1st Super Bowl by scoring 17 points.. bottom line .. they were in the game after scoring 3 points in the first 3 quarters
Why do you people try and re write history and pretend like this was some offensive juggernaut running up the score
If the Giants defense played like the LA defense in any of our playoff wins we get blown out
No QB has ever made the pro bowl without an all-pro team or a SB appearance.
Good luck Philip.
Dep, you meant HOF, right? Rivers has been to a ton of pro bowls.
You won't find many people who played or coached in the league that don't admire him for the way he plays his position.
He's come up small in some big spots, however, and that's what shapes a Qb's legacy, doesn't it?
Only reason I know this is because it was brought up a bunch last week. Rivers is now 1 and 8 all time against the Pats. His one win coming against Cassell when Brady was hurt.
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I read, so dont shoot the messenger.
No QB has ever made the pro bowl without an all-pro team or a SB appearance.
Good luck Philip.
Dep, you meant HOF, right? Rivers has been to a ton of pro bowls.
Doh!!!! Good catch.
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In comment 14265366 dep026 said:
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I read, so dont shoot the messenger.
No QB has ever made the pro bowl without an all-pro team or a SB appearance.
Good luck Philip.
Dep, you meant HOF, right? Rivers has been to a ton of pro bowls.
Doh!!!! Good catch.
dep, it is a great stat though. I had to look it up myself as the only person that came to mind who might not have done it, was Warren Moon. Turns out he had one all-pro first team season in 1990. I only really looked at players from the Super Bowl era.
Philip Rivers was looking for flags - ( New Window )
It's one of the dumber calculations around here.
Do you think Simms was some choir boy? He and Parcells would yell at each other during games.
Brady yells at everyone - coaches, refs, teammates, other players. Do you think for a second we wouldn't want him here?
Oh, and brother Peyton was no mute on the field either. He was known to get after the refs and have public spats on the sidelines. Who wouldn't take him in a heartbeat.
These guys today are very savvy. The big, bad, mean, rough NY media is a fallacy. Does anyone think a 6'5" 230 lb man like Rivers, who makes his living avoiding 290 lb fast men, is going to shrink in front of some NY media snob who couldn't break a 12 minute mile?
Please.
Those guys come with multiple MVPs and Lombardi trophies. So yea sure, you can expect them to be viewed a little differently as arguably the greatest QBs who ever suited up.
The point remains bitching is bitching. It's just as annoying when Brady or anyone else does it.
Big Ben has done well at Pitt and Rivers had a great career with Chargers, but i am still glad, we had Eli.
We would not had 2 Super Bowls without him.
This game is a tyipcal charger game....came up small. It was not all Rivers fault, but he certainly under delivered when it counted the most.
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issue with the Rivers couldn't have handled NYC rhetoric. Why - because he is fiery on the field? Seems like a weird thing to prevent somebody to succeeding.
It's one of the dumber calculations around here.
Do you think Simms was some choir boy? He and Parcells would yell at each other during games.
Brady yells at everyone - coaches, refs, teammates, other players. Do you think for a second we wouldn't want him here?
Oh, and brother Peyton was no mute on the field either. He was known to get after the refs and have public spats on the sidelines. Who wouldn't take him in a heartbeat.
These guys today are very savvy. The big, bad, mean, rough NY media is a fallacy. Does anyone think a 6'5" 230 lb man like Rivers, who makes his living avoiding 290 lb fast men, is going to shrink in front of some NY media snob who couldn't break a 12 minute mile?
Please.
You are right on the $$.
Some have argued that not showing a lot of emotion goes a long way in remaining composed in high leverage/pressure situations.
Are we supposed to believe Rivers is tougher or cares more than other QBs because he yells more?
Eli didn't miss any time after being diagnosed with a 6-8 week injury. Pretty tough for a guy who lacks "fire"
Some have argued that not showing a lot of emotion goes a long way in remaining composed in high leverage/pressure situations.
Are we supposed to believe Rivers is tougher or cares more than other QBs because he yells more?
Eli didn't miss any time after being diagnosed with a 6-8 week injury. Pretty tough for a guy who lacks "fire"
It's not about value to me. I'm merely talking about who Rivers is as a person. His personality. And that I think his abrasiveness wouldn't be a problem fitting into big, scary NYC. I'm not sure why that's hard to follow.
I keep reading, when these threads arise, that Rivers would get eaten alive. It's just laughable. Instead of debating the merits of Rivers's play, we shoot down these irrelevant rabbit holes because it's a lazy way to find shelter from the more meaningful pieces of the debate - like W/L record, completion %, QBR, TD/INT ratio, etc.
At the end of the day, this is just another dumb assertion made by a lot of fans who can't think clearly.
I texted him when Rivers was going through his histrionics while constantly under pressure on Sunday and asked how that was working out for him. I'm still waiting on a reply
Rivers is a great QB whose teams have underperformed in the playoffs. Some of that is on him, some isn't.
The worse thing that happened to Rivers was Marty Schottenheimer. God bless Marty as he struggles with Alzheimer's - that brutal, brutal disease.
The heartbreak Marty experienced in the playoffs was too much for one man to endure. From Elway, to the Byner fumble, to the insanity of the 2006 divisional loss to the Pats, etc, he just couldn't get over the hump. And I believe he's passed on that "Marty Curse" to others like Rivers. The only guy who has beaten the Marty Curse was Ernest Byner...but that is an outlier.
Yep, that’s it.
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In comment 14265044 GoBlue6599 said:
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The halftime score was 35-7.. if the Giants defense ever played that way we wouldn’t have won any of our playoff games. If that were the Giants these people would be killing the head coach and Defense.. People here seem to think Eli played well in a game we lost 38-17
Sure you can. After an opening drive touchdown, the Chargers punted on their next five series, which included three 3-and-outs and no drive that got more than 26 yards. The defense was getting their asses kicked in, and then were suddenly right back on the field.
By comparison, Eli drove the Giants across midfield in 4 of their first 5 series. But thanks to some bad drops, we managed a mere six points.
Name the playoffs games where the Giants defense gave up 35 points at the 1/2.. You can’t be serious the Giants won there 1st Super Bowl by scoring 17 points.. bottom line .. they were in the game after scoring 3 points in the first 3 quarters
Why do you people try and re write history and pretend like this was some offensive juggernaut running up the score
If the Giants defense played like the LA defense in any of our playoff wins we get blown out
You're right, the defense was shit in the first half. But the offense wasn't far behind.
The reason the chargers defense gave up 35 points was because they were gassed and their offense didn’t sustain drives for them. Rivers has to lift his team up and make everyone else better cause he is paid a huge amount of their salary cap and a 15 year veteran.
Amirite or what????
Whether we would have done better, worse, or the same versus having Eli is simply a guessing game so please just shut the hell up...
Chris in Philly : 1/16/2019 11:53 am : link : reply
just doesn't match who the guy is off the field. Watch some interviews and read about him. He has the personality of Jay Cutler on the field and Brees off it.
I'm friends with a guy who played with him at NC State and he said they had a running joke on the team about him between the lines and outside it. He was married as a sophomore in college and had his first child while still at NC State (he might have had the 2nd on the way when he left). He's been an excellent Dad and family man.
Eli has gotten praise for staying cool from some teammates and has been criticized for not being fiery enough by others.
The flipside is true for Rivers too. Some teammates think it is great that he's so vocal and some have said it has been a distraction.
That's usually what happens when you have a team of 53 - not everyone is going to agree.
You wanted Rivers to play defense too?
I’m very thankful for the Eli Manning trade. Even right now,
And before u respond, I have lived about everywhere and anywhere...
Whether we would have done better, worse, or the same versus having Eli is simply a guessing game so please just shut the hell up...
Smartest post I’ve read here in years.