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More reading - Edge Rusher FAs

ij_reilly : 1/16/2019 11:14 am
I didn't see this article linked in Dawg's (always tremendous) thread.

Any thoughts on the 5 edge rushers listed in this article?



5 free agent edge rushers - ( New Window )
Lawrence will be tagged  
giants#1 : 1/16/2019 11:20 am : link
if they can't reach a long term agreement and I suspect Clowney will as well. Those 2 could also get close to $20M per season.

Ansah's on the wrong side of 30 and has been banged up the last 3 seasons as the article mentions. Buyer beware there.

I like Ford, but he's had injury issues as well and will probably cost >$15M per.

Can we afford a good O lineman  
Mike from SI : 1/16/2019 11:23 am : link
AND a good edge rusher? If not, the draft seems to be deeper with edge rushers, so it may make sense to allocate our dollars to the OL.
Plenty of Very good players  
Bluesbreaker : 1/16/2019 11:24 am : link
Where do we place our assets seems like we do not have
the cap space to land a starting RT and an top edge rusher
and we need both !
I like the idea of going for the under the radar guys  
Jay on the Island : 1/16/2019 11:39 am : link
The Giants should bring in both Za’Darius Smith and Preston Smith. Both are on the right side of 30 and will be much cheaper than other options but could end up being very good additions.
If the Giants are going to spend big on one position  
Jay on the Island : 1/16/2019 11:42 am : link
I hope that it's spent on a RT. Daryl Williams, Ja'Wuan James, or Donovan Smith would be ideal. Then draft either Dalton Risner, David Edwards, or Yodny Cajuste in round 2 and let them play guard, or C in Risner's case, during their first year or two.
RE: Can we afford a good O lineman  
giants#1 : 1/16/2019 11:42 am : link
In comment 14265306 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
AND a good edge rusher? If not, the draft seems to be deeper with edge rushers, so it may make sense to allocate our dollars to the OL.


Depends on whether or not they plan to re-sign Collins.

And what they do with some or all of the following:
Eli
Vernon
Jenkins
Stewart
Ogletree
Ellison
Martin
Barwin

They could create an additional $30-40M in cap space if desired.
RE: I like the idea of going for the under the radar guys  
giants#1 : 1/16/2019 11:45 am : link
In comment 14265340 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
The Giants should bring in both Za’Darius Smith and Preston Smith. Both are on the right side of 30 and will be much cheaper than other options but could end up being very good additions.


I'd add Fowler to that list. Better known than the other too, but hasn't lived up to the draft hype yet and could probably be had for $8-10M per season.

That said, as discussed on the JPP thread, they may only have room for one edge rusher in their current scheme so any decision here will be tightly tied to what they do with Vernon.
RE: RE: Can we afford a good O lineman  
Jay on the Island : 1/16/2019 11:56 am : link
In comment 14265350 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14265306 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


AND a good edge rusher? If not, the draft seems to be deeper with edge rushers, so it may make sense to allocate our dollars to the OL.



Depends on whether or not they plan to re-sign Collins.

And what they do with some or all of the following:
Eli
Vernon
Jenkins
Stewart
Ogletree
Ellison
Martin
Barwin

They could create an additional $30-40M in cap space if desired.

This is one of the benefits of drafting a QB like Haskins in round 1. They will be paying him way below market value for 5 years which will free up money to spend on the rest of the roster. They could cut Eli and sign a cheap stopgap to compete with Haskins for the starting job year one. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyrod Taylor, Sam Bradford, Trevor Siemian, or even RG3 are all cheap options.
RE: Lawrence will be tagged  
Beer Man : 1/16/2019 11:56 am : link
In comment 14265301 giants#1 said:
Quote:
if they can't reach a long term agreement and I suspect Clowney will as well. Those 2 could also get close to $20M per season.

Ansah's on the wrong side of 30 and has been banged up the last 3 seasons as the article mentions. Buyer beware there.

I like Ford, but he's had injury issues as well and will probably cost >$15M per.
Not only that, but Dallas has $55M in cap space and most of their players under contract. If Dallas wants him, he'll still be a Cowboy.
Edge rushers  
stretch234 : 1/16/2019 11:57 am : link
Even none name edge rushers are going to get huge deals in FA, especially if young. The top guys will get franchised and Dee Ford may well also and be close to 20M. Younger guys are going to get 12M per year

There are 22 guys DE&LB considered edge rushers already making over 9M per year

There will be no bargains to be had
I would like Clowney  
Beer Man : 1/16/2019 12:04 pm : link
I don't think the Giants will be able to outbid others for his service. I worry he may land in Dallas.
RE: RE: RE: Can we afford a good O lineman  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/16/2019 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14265364 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14265350 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 14265306 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


AND a good edge rusher? If not, the draft seems to be deeper with edge rushers, so it may make sense to allocate our dollars to the OL.



Depends on whether or not they plan to re-sign Collins.

And what they do with some or all of the following:
Eli
Vernon
Jenkins
Stewart
Ogletree
Ellison
Martin
Barwin

They could create an additional $30-40M in cap space if desired.


This is one of the benefits of drafting a QB like Haskins in round 1. They will be paying him way below market value for 5 years which will free up money to spend on the rest of the roster. They could cut Eli and sign a cheap stopgap to compete with Haskins for the starting job year one. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyrod Taylor, Sam Bradford, Trevor Siemian, or even RG3 are all cheap options.


Except that the Giants will need to give Eli that roster bonus so they don't telegraph there move in draft. At which point you can save 12 million by getting rid of him. Go look at what Tyrod and Sam Bradford made last year. Any replacement option that costs you less than 12 million will assuredly be worse than Eli.
And Haskins is a one year starter  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/16/2019 12:10 pm : link
He may very well need a development year in the NFL. This is coming from someone who loves Haskins game.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Can we afford a good O lineman  
Jay on the Island : 1/16/2019 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14265384 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:


Except that the Giants will need to give Eli that roster bonus so they don't telegraph there move in draft. At which point you can save 12 million by getting rid of him. Go look at what Tyrod and Sam Bradford made last year. Any replacement option that costs you less than 12 million will assuredly be worse than Eli.

Of course they would be worse than Eli but they will not get close to that amount this year. They would be keeping the seat warm for Haskins if Haskins isn't ready week one. This would give the Giants more cap room fill holes and they wouldn't have to worry about a quarterback controversy as the stopgap will surely know his role.
Haskins?  
Beer Man : 1/16/2019 12:41 pm : link
It amazes me how many posters think picking him at #6 is a foregone conclusion. If last year is any indication, we know:
- DG will not force a pick, particularity QB
and
- DG will grab the BPA when the Giants pick at #6

On top of that DG has publicly stated that the D will be a focus this year's draft. And at the same time he has not mentioned Haskins and didn't personally scout him as he did with Herbert.

Not to mention Haskins is not a top 10 talent, had he been in last years draft he probably would have been the 5th QB taken; most likely the same if he was to stay in school another year and enter the 2020 draft. He is arguably the best QB in the 2019 draft class, but it is a very weak QB class.
I think Haskins is the 3rd QB taken last year  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/16/2019 12:52 pm : link
and if he played more than one year he may have jumped Darnold.
RE: I think Haskins is the 3rd QB taken last year  
Beer Man : 1/16/2019 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14265465 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
and if he played more than one year he may have jumped Darnold.
Please, Darnold was ranked as a top 3 player in the draft last year, no one is talking about Haskins being anywhere near that.
RE: I think Haskins is the 3rd QB taken last year  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/16/2019 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14265465 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
and if he played more than one year he may have jumped Darnold.


This, not jumping Darnold but very likely before Allen (accuracy issues) and Rosen (attitude, commitment, and durability questions).

Almost surely 3rd QB off the board last year, which puts him at 7 and clearly top 10.
RE: I like the idea of going for the under the radar guys  
djstat : 1/16/2019 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14265340 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
The Giants should bring in both Za’Darius Smith and Preston Smith. Both are on the right side of 30 and will be much cheaper than other options but could end up being very good additions.
ZaDarius Smith is SUPER overrated. He had 8.5 sacks. Three came in one game against the Titans where the Ravens had 12 sacks as a team. He had three total sacks the last 8 games of the year. He is not an answer
Some edge rushers I wouldn't mind the Giants going after  
nyjuggernaut2 : 1/16/2019 2:32 pm : link
Preston Smith, Brandon Graham, and a dark horse, Anthony Barr.
RE: I like the idea of going for the under the radar guys  
nyjuggernaut2 : 1/16/2019 3:16 pm : link
In comment 14265340 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
The Giants should bring in both Za’Darius Smith and Preston Smith. Both are on the right side of 30 and will be much cheaper than other options but could end up being very good additions.


I'm all about signing away free agents from divisional rivals. Strengthen our team and weaken theirs. Which is why Preston Smith would be a nice add IMO.
RE: RE: Lawrence will be tagged  
TommyWiseau : 1/16/2019 3:48 pm : link
In comment 14265365 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14265301 giants#1 said:


Quote:


if they can't reach a long term agreement and I suspect Clowney will as well. Those 2 could also get close to $20M per season.

Ansah's on the wrong side of 30 and has been banged up the last 3 seasons as the article mentions. Buyer beware there.

I like Ford, but he's had injury issues as well and will probably cost >$15M per.


Not only that, but Dallas has $55M in cap space and most of their players under contract. If Dallas wants him, he'll still be a Cowboy.


Dak wants to be paid but you are right. Lawrence will get tagged or extended.
RE: If the Giants are going to spend big on one position  
Earl the goat : 1/16/2019 3:56 pm : link
In comment 14265347 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
I hope that it's spent on a RT. Daryl Williams, Ja'Wuan James, or Donovan Smith would be ideal. Then draft either Dalton Risner, David Edwards, or Yodny Cajuste in round 2 and let them play guard, or C in Risner's case, during their first year or two.


Love Dalton Risner. Some say he might play center at the next level
Also heard that he hasn’t given up a sack in college Hard to believe
Rather we go established proven OL in  
TMS : 1/16/2019 5:00 pm : link
FA and defense (DE, DT, LB) in the draft at #6. Myself. DG is a a proven top draft talent evaluator in the early rounds. Let him do his thing .
Funny, DG talked about running the ball and stopping the run,  
81_Great_Dane : 1/16/2019 6:41 pm : link
but going forward, the Giants seem to need a (future) passer, O-line and a pass rush -- pass the ball, stop the pass.
RE: RE: RE: Can we afford a good O lineman  
gmenatlarge : 1/16/2019 6:59 pm : link
In comment 14265364 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14265350 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 14265306 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


AND a good edge rusher? If not, the draft seems to be deeper with edge rushers, so it may make sense to allocate our dollars to the OL.



Depends on whether or not they plan to re-sign Collins.

And what they do with some or all of the following:
Eli
Vernon
Jenkins
Stewart
Ogletree
Ellison
Martin
Barwin

They could create an additional $30-40M in cap space if desired.


This is one of the benefits of drafting a QB like Haskins in round 1. They will be paying him way below market value for 5 years which will free up money to spend on the rest of the roster. They could cut Eli and sign a cheap stopgap to compete with Haskins for the starting job year one. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyrod Taylor, Sam Bradford, Trevor Siemian, or even RG3 are all cheap options.


Look I get your point, but do you really want to spend a year watching the likes of Fitzpatrick, Taylor, San F’n Bradford, Siemian or RG3 instead of Eli!
I don think the cap savings are worth the pain!
Clowney is a game changer.  
TMS : 1/16/2019 7:01 pm : link
Anything we can do to get him we should do. MO.
I think this is an area to address in the draft  
Go Terps : 1/16/2019 7:02 pm : link
It's supposed to be a strong draft for edge rushers, isn't it? I'd be fine if we drafted two or even three of them...we are completely bereft in that area.
Please DG, lets avoid the big $ splashes in free agency this year  
Jimmy Googs : 1/16/2019 7:07 pm : link
We aren’t doing shit next season anyway so spend one more year trying to figure out who really are the core building block players we have and focal points of draft. Add some modest pieces in Free Agency to areas not plentiful in the draft only.

And let’s all regroup a year from now after we go 6-10 again.

Ok?
Real good FA edge rushers  
mrvax : 1/16/2019 7:31 pm : link
are very expensive. If the Giants really want one, see if a guy is there at #6 who merits the pick. Else, get another Carter type later.
Are you taking a QB or not?  
giantstock : 1/17/2019 1:35 am : link
If you take the qb in the draft then priority goes to getting two fee agent OL Mitch Morse at Center and one of the aforementioned three at RT.

You do whatever you have to ot protect the young qb.

If Gmen decide no QB then I'd look to trade down and take bpa on defense with emphasis on front 7 but would listen to secondary - though I much prefer front 7.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Can we afford a good O lineman  
giantstock : 1/17/2019 1:37 am : link
In comment 14265892 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14265364 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


In comment 14265350 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 14265306 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


AND a good edge rusher? If not, the draft seems to be deeper with edge rushers, so it may make sense to allocate our dollars to the OL.



Depends on whether or not they plan to re-sign Collins.

And what they do with some or all of the following:
Eli
Vernon
Jenkins
Stewart
Ogletree
Ellison
Martin
Barwin

They could create an additional $30-40M in cap space if desired.


This is one of the benefits of drafting a QB like Haskins in round 1. They will be paying him way below market value for 5 years which will free up money to spend on the rest of the roster. They could cut Eli and sign a cheap stopgap to compete with Haskins for the starting job year one. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyrod Taylor, Sam Bradford, Trevor Siemian, or even RG3 are all cheap options.



Look I get your point, but do you really want to spend a year watching the likes of Fitzpatrick, Taylor, San F’n Bradford, Siemian or RG3 instead of Eli!
I don think the cap savings are worth the pain!


Huh?????????????

Buddy hasn't it been all-time painful already?
Please, if we spend more than $10m on any UFA, may it be an OT  
SGMen : 1/17/2019 7:07 am : link
I know our defense needs help. But we can keep Vernon despite his high cost - or restructure him. We need to draft a DL round 1 as I think that will be the best player available when we pick #6.

I think we do cut bait with players. We don't have a replacement for Eli and my gut tells me we won't take a QB round 1, unless we trade down a bit??

But none of these edge rushers. Too expensive.
Love Dee Ford...  
bw in dc : 1/17/2019 7:37 am : link
because you can’t teach that speed. Same with Clowney. This team really needs an infusion of speed. But I get the health concerns and the likelihood they we be overpriced.

If we did target one guy to fill a pass rush need, I’d recommend Frank Clark. Well coached coming out of that Seattle program and he really can run to the ball. Plus, he’s just been super-steady for three years doing just about everything. And only 26.

Otherwise, I think Jay has it right - focus on oline.
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