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I know it's early and he is small...but Kylar Murray

shocktheworld : 1/17/2019 12:12 am
Just watch these highlights...I can't imagine having that type of player in blue...we've never had a guy like this...He flicks the ball 60 yards, and is so MF'ing fast..He is a game changer that when paired with SB, and OBJ....Engram, and Sterling...wow

That would be worth the price of admission, and our Offense would set records...I just don't think he can physically handle the NFL for more than a few seasons...but dammit if I'm not super intrigued by this kid
Kylar is a freak - ( New Window )
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RE: With an average..  
YAJ2112 : 1/17/2019 2:19 pm : link
In comment 14266767 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
YPC of 3.0:)


yeah, I imagine a bunch of those are actually sacks right? Isn't that how college counts those?
RE: Wilson..  
giants#1 : 1/17/2019 2:19 pm : link
In comment 14266759 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
had a season with 527 pass attempts


And had 378 or fewer his 3 other seasons. Also finished with a college comp% = 60.9% vs Murray's 67.4%.
RE: Is Murray a  
Giants38 : 1/17/2019 2:19 pm : link
In comment 14266743 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He threw 370 times and ran 140. Do we know how many of those 140 runs were called runs by Riley?


Just a note, but sacks in college are considered rushing attempts, so that should put it into perspective that he ran fewer times than you think he did. It’s also amazing that he ran for 1000 yards on 140 attempts. He basically ran for 1100 yards on 120 attempts, assuming he was sacked 20 times for a loss of 100 yards.

By the way, Cutcliffe called running plays for Daniel Jones. A lot of them, actually. How many people here consider him a running QB?
RE: Wilson..  
Go Terps : 1/17/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14266759 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
had a season with 527 pass attempts


And the Seahawks' offense got worse the more they threw the ball. They switched it back this year and got better.

But I don't see Wilson and Murray as similar players. Murray is much more explosive.
RE: RE: Wilson..  
YAJ2112 : 1/17/2019 2:25 pm : link
In comment 14266787 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14266759 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


had a season with 527 pass attempts



And the Seahawks' offense got worse the more they threw the ball. They switched it back this year and got better.

But I don't see Wilson and Murray as similar players. Murray is much more explosive.


He was talking about in college.
Giants38  
Go Terps : 1/17/2019 2:28 pm : link
Thanks...I'd forgotten about the sacks/rushes thing in college.

Interesting about Jones at Duke. In 2016 and 2017 he has more rushes than Murray did last year. Again, have to correct for sacks.

And regarding comps to Lamar Jackson. Jackson was a different type of player in college. He ran the ball quite a bit more than Murray did. 260 & 232 times his last two years. I'm a huge Jackson fan, but he can fairly be called a running QB. I don't think that applies to Murray.
I can't tell..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/17/2019 2:28 pm : link
for sure, but it looks like Wilson's longest rush was 28 yards vs. UNLV.

Fun fact - he had 3 receptions while at Wisconsin
RE: RE: RE: Wilson..  
Go Terps : 1/17/2019 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14266789 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In comment 14266787 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14266759 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


had a season with 527 pass attempts



And the Seahawks' offense got worse the more they threw the ball. They switched it back this year and got better.

But I don't see Wilson and Murray as similar players. Murray is much more explosive.



He was talking about in college.


Sorry, my mistake.
RE: Russell Wilson is a big guy for his height.  
AcesUp : 1/17/2019 2:33 pm : link
In comment 14266746 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
It's an oddly underrated aspect of his game. He's built like a runningback IMO.


Mayfield too, they're both thickly built guys. I'm not sure I see that with Murray, he's built like slot back. Does he have the frame to add 15-20 lbs? That's something they'll have to look at.

Even if you decide he's an injury risk and likely to miss some games, I don't think that should stop a team from drafting him early. There are plenty of QBs out there that are capable of holding down the fort for a handful of games - Foles and Keenum have turned that experience into big contracts. However, it's incredibly difficult to find QBs that can be true difference makers and elevate the team around them. If you decide Murray can be one of those guys, you take him because the upside far outweighs the risk.
I Honestly Don’t Believe I’ve Ever Seen A QB with Murray’s Skillset  
Giants38 : 1/17/2019 2:56 pm : link
He’s most often been compared to Lamar Jackson and Vick. But we’ve already discussed Jackson, and he is much more runner than passer right now. Vick, similarly, had his own passing issues, as he had only one season in which he started more than 10 games and completed over 60% of his passes. The guy was not accurate in college or the pros.

It would be shocking to me if Murray did not succeed as a passer. Certainly, there is nothing to suggest that he can’t sling it - and do so accurately - at the next level. And that is what differentiates him from Vick and Jackson.

People complain about his slight build and argue that it puts him at risk of injury. But I don’t think that is true. Russell Wilson and Brees are the smallest QBs in the NFL, and they have been healthy with out issue (Brees got hurt early, but that was unrelated to height or build). Meanwhile some of the bigger QBs - Luck, Newton, Big Ben, Wentz - have missed significant time due to injury.

With the changing NFL, I don’t believe height is a predictor I’d anything. I believe it’s even less of a concern if he measures in at the height At which OU listed him.
Don’t even bother  
5BowlsSoon : 1/17/2019 2:58 pm : link
Arizona will draft him number one.
Wilson and Brees..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/17/2019 2:58 pm : link
are short, not slight.
RE: Wilson and Brees..  
twostepgiants : 1/17/2019 4:48 pm : link
In comment 14266867 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
are short, not slight.


As was pointed out to you in the other thread, build is not a predictor of injury. Slight or not

Last year I was repeatedly assured that slight Josh Rosen would be injured by the wind let aline an NFL player and he did not get injured yet the appropriately built Darnold did as did the "monster" Josh Allen, who i pointed out had a ling injury history already

You would think a fanbase that saw slender Eli become an "iron man" but not "Big Ben" would know this
So if your Murray  
jtfuoco : 1/17/2019 4:51 pm : link
Do you try to gain 10-15 pounds going into the Combine?
Are you being purposely dense now??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/17/2019 4:59 pm : link
If Eli played the same style as Ben, do you think he would stay healthy?

Furthermore, basing a rookie year of staying healthy or being hurt isn't indicative of anything.

You can continue to reason away that being slight AND short isn't an issue.

I assure those who will make the selection or will pass will know it is an issue
It makes me sick...  
bw in dc : 1/17/2019 5:07 pm : link
to my stomach when I read and agree with everything Fat-Mara in Charlotte says.

RE: Watch this video of him  
compton : 1/17/2019 8:14 pm : link
In comment 14266194 rasbutant said:
Quote:
Its more telling then his "highlight" videos.

Not saying he isn't good, in fact I'm very impressed with him and think he will be drafted before Haskins.

Just saying this is a better gauge of what you will get in the NFL. Link - ( New Window )


Based on the video, that was a solid performance.
RE: Actually, if we believe the listings, he's very close in height and  
GoDeep13 : 1/17/2019 9:51 pm : link
In comment 14266077 Ira said:
Quote:
weight to Julian Edelman.
and boy do he take a beating living over the middle.
RE: I agree with his passing vs Tua’s  
Giantophile : 1/18/2019 1:05 am : link
In comment 14266686 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and I like Tua (though he seems just as risky considering he’s been battling constant injuries).

If I had to go with Murray at 6 or trade up to get Tua next year, I’d rather just go with Murray and keep my assets. If it doesn’t work out, we can at least react to it a year sooner.

I know jobs are on the line and it doesn’t work that way, but I think he’s be electric with Barkley and Beckham, especially if we keep adding to the OL.


+1. This post makes a ton of sense.
The most important number isn't height  
BigBlueCane : 1/18/2019 4:49 am : link
or completion %, it's his Wonderlic score.
Big Blue Cane  
twostepgiants : 1/18/2019 6:36 am : link

Andrew Perloff
Andrew Perloff
@andrewperloff
"He’s the best athlete on the field and the smartest player on the field at the same time." - Oklahoma coach Lincoln Riley on Kyler Murray (
@dpshow
)
9:27 AM · Dec 3, 2018 · Twitter Web Client

I think his Wonderlic will be just fine
RE: The most important number isn't height  
bw in dc : 1/18/2019 8:37 am : link
In comment 14267321 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
or completion %, it's his Wonderlic score.


You’re kidding, right?
What indication is there his wonderlic score is low?  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/18/2019 8:43 am : link
This isn't a Lamar Jackson situation.
He's slight?How so?  
UberAlias : 1/18/2019 11:25 am : link
How so?
Link - ( New Window )
Here is SI article  
UberAlias : 1/18/2019 11:28 am : link
on related topic
Link - ( New Window )
Something I realized re: Kyler Murray  
Leg of Theismann : 1/18/2019 1:47 pm : link
I was thinking about it and I have to say I already think this kid has a lot of guts...

He was considered a top prospect in the 2015 MLB draft. He could have gone off and played baseball immediately out of high school and had a nice payday. Instead, he opts to go to college and play football.

Then, in 2018, he was selected with the #9 overall pick in the MLB draft and signed a $4.4M contract with the A's. He still decides he is willing to risk that by going to play a full season of D1 college football in the Big 12. So, he clearly loves the game of football! He barely played at all before the 2018 season and once he was drafted by an MLB team he could have just walked away from football and been a millionaire. Instead he played football just for the love of the game, and he went and won a Heisman trophy.

My point is this: If this kid already went out and played a full season of D1 football FOR FREE at the risk of getting injured and losing his baseball career (running around "undersized" and at risk of injuring his "slight frame"), why the hell would he now pass up MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in guaranteed money to play the sport he loves on the biggest stage of all? A first round pick, no less, and not to mention he plays the position he plays is far and away the most lucrative of all positions in the NFL.

I don't see this kid passing up on the sport he loves NOW,at this point, when he could make tons of money doing it, after he ALREADY has done it for free at the risk of losing his baseball $ and career. I don't buy the idea that he will be convinced that he's all of a sudden going to get injured (even though he's never been injured playing football) just because NFL defenders are so big and fast and scary. It's not about what anyone else says, it's about what he feels he's capable of doing, and from everything this kid has done I don't see him backing down now just to make the more conservative "business decision".
I don't think he is as small as is portrayed around here...  
Johnny5 : 1/18/2019 2:28 pm : link
He is not slight he is actually fairly muscular. I have seen people calling him 5'9 here and I don't think he is that short.

I am not sure what I think on how he will translate to the NFL, but he is not just a great runner, he throws a GREAT long ball. I would be both terrified and ecstatic at drafting him... lol
RE: I don't think he is as small as is portrayed around here...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/18/2019 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14267822 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
He is not slight he is actually fairly muscular. I have seen people calling him 5'9 here and I don't think he is that short.



The Combine will tell all, but even Oklahoma's team website, and team websites are always known to be generous, only lists him at 5'10.

RE: RE: I don't think he is as small as is portrayed around here...  
Johnny5 : 1/18/2019 3:39 pm : link
In comment 14267844 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14267822 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


He is not slight he is actually fairly muscular. I have seen people calling him 5'9 here and I don't think he is that short.




The Combine will tell all, but even Oklahoma's team website, and team websites are always known to be generous, only lists him at 5'10.

For sure, but just looking at him next to other players on his team I am thinking 5'10 seems likely correct. Anyway don't they list him at 5'11? He doesn't look much shorter to me than Russell Wilson or even Drew Brees. Wilson is definitely beefier though, especially in the legs.

Not sure what I think about drafting him though. Like I said I can totally see getting excited about drafting him.. but yeah his size does have to give you concern.
RE: RE: RE: I don't think he is as small as is portrayed around here...  
Leg of Theismann : 1/18/2019 4:05 pm : link
In comment 14267906 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 14267844 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 14267822 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


He is not slight he is actually fairly muscular. I have seen people calling him 5'9 here and I don't think he is that short.




The Combine will tell all, but even Oklahoma's team website, and team websites are always known to be generous, only lists him at 5'10.



For sure, but just looking at him next to other players on his team I am thinking 5'10 seems likely correct. Anyway don't they list him at 5'11? He doesn't look much shorter to me than Russell Wilson or even Drew Brees. Wilson is definitely beefier though, especially in the legs.

Not sure what I think about drafting him though. Like I said I can totally see getting excited about drafting him.. but yeah his size does have to give you concern.


They list him at 5'11", yes. Baker Mayfield is 6'1" and seeing them stand next to each other I don't see a huge height difference. There is no way Baker is 4 inches taller than Murray, NO WAY. My prediction is Murray will measure at 5'10" and change, no shorter than 5'10" even, though.
..  
Heisenberg : 1/18/2019 4:29 pm : link
I mean I know the kid has warts, too small, Big 12 no defense  
Jim in Forest Hills : 1/18/2019 5:11 pm : link
but can you imagine what he could do for Saquon?

That RPO would just be insane. Saquon would rush for 2000 yards.
Murray  
bogey5 : 1/18/2019 7:25 pm : link
No. Remember RG III. In a game where very little fast guys meet very big fast guys, the big guys win.
if we pull the trigger on a QB Round 1  
mdc1 : 1/20/2019 3:16 pm : link
Murray and NO to Haskins. Murray could help us with out lousy protection and provide time to feed ball to our playmakers.
I like Murray  
adamg : 1/20/2019 3:22 pm : link
I hope he drops like some are predicting and we can move up to 32 to snag him with our 2 and a future 3.

Coming out of the first with Devin White and Kylar Murray would be amazing.
Murray  
mrvax : 1/20/2019 3:43 pm : link
will likely be gone top 10. The Giants would be too ascared to pick him.
RE: I like Murray  
Giantfootball025 : 1/20/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14269230 adamg said:
Quote:
I hope he drops like some are predicting and we can move up to 32 to snag him with our 2 and a future 3.

Coming out of the first with Devin White and Kylar Murray would be amazing.


As much as I would love that, we need an OL with 1 of the first 2 picks. Of course maybe FA we get a player or 2 and that thinking changes. I do think the Giants have to come away with either Haskins or Murray in this draft.
RE: Murray  
adamg : 1/20/2019 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14269269 mrvax said:
Quote:
will likely be gone top 10. The Giants would be too ascared to pick him.


To be honest. I wouldn't mind going Murray at 6 and RT in the second. I think that would turn this team around.
He could be great  
Mike in Boston : 1/20/2019 3:49 pm : link
1) But in the NFL teams will scheme to keep him in the pocket and make him throw over 6'7" linemen. He will have multiple passes per game batted at the line.

2) If they don't keep him in the pocket and he runs, he will frequently get tackled by one or more 300 lb. guys

3) Even if he stays healthy and mostly runs to extend plays and throw, he may still decide to play a sport where 300lb guys don't keep trying to knock him down.
RE: He could be great  
Giantfootball025 : 1/20/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14269289 Mike in Boston said:
Quote:
1) But in the NFL teams will scheme to keep him in the pocket and make him throw over 6'7" linemen. He will have multiple passes per game batted at the line.

2) If they don't keep him in the pocket and he runs, he will frequently get tackled by one or more 300 lb. guys

3) Even if he stays healthy and mostly runs to extend plays and throw, he may still decide to play a sport where 300lb guys don't keep trying to knock him down.



1.) is a bit of a reach NFL is all about throwing lanes, no defense just rushes side by side with their arms up. Eli is 6'4 and has multiple balls batted down. If Murray has the ability to feel pressure and slide to open lanes he'll be fine. Brees and Wilson are great at that.

2 and 3.) This is where smarts come in, getting down and running out of bounds will be important. Is Murray able to understand this or will he always attempt to take unnecessary hits.

The talent is there, the guy can flat out play football, this isn't a gaudy stat QB without NFL ability. Besides size Murray can make every NFL throw.
The amount..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2019 4:09 pm : link
of guys who could flat out play football at the NCAA level is massive.

The number of them who are bucking the odds and succeeding in the NFL despite being too short or slight in very small.
Yeah  
Giantfootball025 : 1/20/2019 4:27 pm : link
but the position I wouldn't put as much stock in is QB. Undersized OL, LBs, DB's, ect... are at a huge disadvantage because after a while physics take over. We saw it with our own Donte Deayon.QB is a different breed. If you can read defenses, have great pocket awareness, and make throws, you will succeed.
You make..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2019 4:46 pm : link
this sound easy:

Quote:
If you can read defenses, have great pocket awareness, and make throws, you will succeed.


Murray often runs after his first read. Not sure how that checks the boxes off.
Murray  
Jimmy Googs : 1/20/2019 5:03 pm : link
feels more like flavor of the day to me.

Pass...
The question I have is...  
bw in dc : 1/20/2019 5:18 pm : link
at what round would Murray be considered good value?

I definitely don’t think round one. Round two feels closer, but still a stretch.

Maybe round three?
Top of Rd 3  
Jimmy Googs : 1/20/2019 5:24 pm : link
...
RE: Murray  
Eman11 : 1/20/2019 5:31 pm : link
In comment 14269402 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
feels more like flavor of the day to me.

Pass...


Same here.

Somehow I just can't see DG who loves his Hog Mollies in the trenches, liking a player of Murray's stature leading his offense.
RE: You make..  
Giantfootball025 : 1/20/2019 9:01 pm : link
In comment 14269385 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
this sound easy:



Quote:


If you can read defenses, have great pocket awareness, and make throws, you will succeed.



Murray often runs after his first read. Not sure how that checks the boxes off.


No I realize it's difficult if the Giants scouting department feel Murray can do all the things I mentioned, I would not hesitate to pick him due to his size. Obviously it's a good debate size vs skill. I think he can make the read and the throws. It wasn't like Oklahoma had some small line he could see over, they averaged 6'5. To me Murray is a slightly smaller Mayfield with better speed and no off the field antics. But, time will tell.
RE: The amount..  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/21/2019 1:17 am : link
In comment 14269321 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
of guys who could flat out play football at the NCAA level is massive.

The number of them who are bucking the odds and succeeding in the NFL despite being too short or slight in very small.


Yeah but you forgot something. The number of guys who played NCAA football at the level Kyler Murray played at last year you could count on the fingers of one or at most two hands. He wasn't just GOOD at NCAA level ball. His size won't be the issue IMO.
Skylar Murray  
bogey5 : 1/21/2019 1:28 pm : link
He is too much like RG III in my opinion. He is 6'2" and weighed 215.

His body didn't hold up. I see the same thing happening to Murray, would not draft him.
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