Just watch these highlights...I can't imagine having that type of player in blue...we've never had a guy like this...He flicks the ball 60 yards, and is so MF'ing fast..He is a game changer that when paired with SB, and OBJ....Engram, and Sterling...wow
That would be worth the price of admission, and our Offense would set records...I just don't think he can physically handle the NFL for more than a few seasons...but dammit if I'm not super intrigued by this kid
Kylar is a freak - (
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I get the argument about measurable physical attributes, but I think he is really good at football.
I predict he is not there when we pick at #6, but if he was, I'd be fine with the pick.
Lol! So it's his fault that some of the TD passes he threw were to wide open receivers? I'm pretty sure that highlight reel showed almost all of his TDs from last season, so obviously not every single one of them is going to blow your mind. There are plenty of throws on that reel that show him throwing the ball perfectly into tight windows.
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the kid is dynamic but (I know I'm not the first to say it) his WRs are so incredibly wide open on some of those plays (obviously not his fault, he's taking what's given to him) and he is really small. I'm not sure yet. He's interesting
Lol! So it's his fault that some of the TD passes he threw were to wide open receivers? I'm pretty sure that highlight reel showed almost all of his TDs from last season, so obviously not every single one of them is going to blow your mind. There are plenty of throws on that reel that show him throwing the ball perfectly into tight windows.
I know you said "obviously not his fault"... but still, you can't count that as a knock in any way. Sure that's probably why he amassed over 5000 total yards and 50 TDs, but he also did plenty more where it didn't look so easy.
Yes, his height is a concern, but his skillset is not. He can make every throw. The lanes his running ability would open up for Saquon would be disgusting. I seriously believe that if Murray were our QB, Saquon would run for 2000 yards. Plus, whenever Murray broke the pocket, teams would be forced to respect his running ability, which would result in blown coverages down the field. I'm all in on the kid.
Yes, his height is a concern, but his skillset is not. He can make every throw. The lanes his running ability would open up for Saquon would be disgusting. I seriously believe that if Murray were our QB, Saquon would run for 2000 yards. Plus, whenever Murray broke the pocket, teams would be forced to respect his running ability, which would result in blown coverages down the field. I'm all in on the kid.
That’s all very true. His ability to run so amazingly is where the concern for injury comes from. He is a definite high risk/high reward player. It’s gonna be great to watch him play in the NFL wherever he ends up I think. I am pulling for the kid.
The fact he outran the entire Texas defense on that play, including a flat out footrace with 2 DBs. I mean, he's not playing Monmouth here, lol. Those are starters in a Big 12 defensive secondary. Give me that kind of speed at the QB position, combined with a rocket arm, enough productivity to win the Heisman, enough natural athleticism to be a professional in multiple sports... you can keep those extra couple of inches in height.
I've seen it posted on this site elsewhere... if Kyler Murray were 6'2", he would be the consensus #1 overall pick in this draft (either by the Cards or a team trading up to get him). I don't understand why him being less than 1/2" shorter than Russell Wilson is reason to count him out, and I don't believe that just because he is "smallish" that he is just going to get injured right away. Plenty of small-bodied, durable players in the NFL over the years. Plenty of big-bodied, not so durable players in the NFL over the years.
I truly believe we would see some incredible things with Murray, Barkley, and Beckham... especially when a play breaks down and they need to improvise. These guys are all just flat-out gamers AND freak athletes. Fun Fun Fun.
Put him on the Giants, and he adds wins, 3-4 at least all by himself. Why?
a) Huge uptick in red zone production % and sum.
b) Huge uptick in 3rd down conversion % and sum.
c.) Would generate more success and TDs from improvised plays.
All this, as long as he stays on the field.
I'll pass on a 5'10" QB. BTW, name two f'10" QBs that ever won a superbowl...
I'd be perfectly fine taking him (especially in a trade down).
I'll pass on a 5'10" QB. BTW, name two f'10" QBs that ever won a superbowl...
Russell Wilson would've had two rings if they just handed the ball off to Lynch.
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The first pass was a jump ball that the receiver made a play on. The next 4 were clean pockets and wide receivers wide open. Not saying I k now enough about him to want to draft him or not. Just saying the "highlight" reel is not an NFL reel.
I'll pass on a 5'10" QB. BTW, name two f'10" QBs that ever won a superbowl...
Russell Wilson would've had two rings if they just handed the ball off to Lynch.
Thanks Pete Carroll!
From this highlight reel, Murray locks onto his primary target and if he is covered, Murray runs the ball. I didn't see much of him using his second and third receiving options or him using his legs to extend the play to give WRs the time to come open. It seemed like there were two options, pass to the primary or run the ball.
If he does that in the NFL, he will not last long.
Giants38 : 1:54 am : link : reply
If he were 6' or 6'1", teams would be falling over themselves to draft this kid.
Lamar Jackson is much bigger than Murray and teams weren't falling all over themselves to draft him.
Murray will be one of the shortest, lightest QB's to ever play the position in an Era where defenders are much bigger and stronger and only slightly slower.
It is a recipe for a short career. He isn't a pocket passer or a scrambler, he is a runner.
Not to mention, what do you do when you draft him, build an offensive scheme around him and he gets hurt week 4? You aren't just losing a player, you are fucked with the scheme.
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is just a thing of beauty.
The fact he outran the entire Texas defense on that play, including a flat out footrace with 2 DBs. I mean, he's not playing Monmouth here, lol. Those are starters in a Big 12 defensive secondary. Give me that kind of speed at the QB position, combined with a rocket arm, enough productivity to win the Heisman, enough natural athleticism to be a professional in multiple sports... you can keep those extra couple of inches in height.
I've seen it posted on this site elsewhere... if Kyler Murray were 6'2", he would be the consensus #1 overall pick in this draft (either by the Cards or a team trading up to get him). I don't understand why him being less than 1/2" shorter than Russell Wilson is reason to count him out, and I don't believe that just because he is "smallish" that he is just going to get injured right away. Plenty of small-bodied, durable players in the NFL over the years. Plenty of big-bodied, not so durable players in the NFL over the years.
I truly believe we would see some incredible things with Murray, Barkley, and Beckham... especially when a play breaks down and they need to improvise. These guys are all just flat-out gamers AND freak athletes. Fun Fun Fun.
Love his game. I’ve been touting his play all year. Was saying back in September he’s the most amazing offensive player I’ve ever seen in the college game. And it just never stopped - he kept putting up great performance after great performance.
But I’m a believer in NFL metrics, almost to a fault, especially for the QB position, and have started to hold Murray’s size against him. I know the NFL is gradually morphing into arena football; and the rules may make it easier to break some of the conventional wisdom.
But investing first round dollars on such an unusual prospect is way too risky. As dynamic as he is, he’s very likely going to get hurt because mobile QBs get hurt. It’s just the nature of the sport and history bears that out. So unless we could get him in round 3,4 or 5, I take my chances somewhere else.
it's the 6th pick, better be sure
For that reason I would not touch him with a first round pick.
Not saying he isn't good, in fact I'm very impressed with him and think he will be drafted before Haskins.
Just saying this is a better gauge of what you will get in the NFL.
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Watch the video i linked if you want to see him without a clean pocket.
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If you don't want Murray that's fine, but lack of pressure shouldn't be the reason.
Yes, his height is a concern, but his skillset is not. He can make every throw. The lanes his running ability would open up for Saquon would be disgusting. I seriously believe that if Murray were our QB, Saquon would run for 2000 yards. Plus, whenever Murray broke the pocket, teams would be forced to respect his running ability, which would result in blown coverages down the field. I'm all in on the kid.
I'm pretty high on Murray myself, but in what world is he more athletic than Michael Vick?
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If he were 6' or 6'1", teams would be falling over themselves to draft this kid. He is arguably the best athlete to ever play the QB position. And, yes, that includes Michael Vick. Whereas Lamar Jackson completed 58% of his passes in college, Murray completed 70% of his, and the metrics suggest he had the greatest collegiate season for any QB ever.
Yes, his height is a concern, but his skillset is not. He can make every throw. The lanes his running ability would open up for Saquon would be disgusting. I seriously believe that if Murray were our QB, Saquon would run for 2000 yards. Plus, whenever Murray broke the pocket, teams would be forced to respect his running ability, which would result in blown coverages down the field. I'm all in on the kid.
I'm pretty high on Murray myself, but in what world is he more athletic than Michael Vick?
This one. 2 professional leagues are fighting for this kid. He just won the Heisman in the sport he wasnt signed to a pro deal
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In comment 14266067 Giants38 said:
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If he were 6' or 6'1", teams would be falling over themselves to draft this kid. He is arguably the best athlete to ever play the QB position. And, yes, that includes Michael Vick. Whereas Lamar Jackson completed 58% of his passes in college, Murray completed 70% of his, and the metrics suggest he had the greatest collegiate season for any QB ever.
Yes, his height is a concern, but his skillset is not. He can make every throw. The lanes his running ability would open up for Saquon would be disgusting. I seriously believe that if Murray were our QB, Saquon would run for 2000 yards. Plus, whenever Murray broke the pocket, teams would be forced to respect his running ability, which would result in blown coverages down the field. I'm all in on the kid.
I'm pretty high on Murray myself, but in what world is he more athletic than Michael Vick?
This one. 2 professional leagues are fighting for this kid. He just won the Heisman in the sport he wasnt signed to a pro deal
In the football world, I think Vick is every bit the athlete, besides the fact he is quite a bit bigger. I'll grant you that being an A+ athlete in both baseball and football is scarce. Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders are the only two I can think of. Although John Elway was quite a CF in baseball along with being a HoF QB.
Murray is a match up nightmare.
Defenses will have creatively figure out how to defense him.
I am not certain that there is a QB who can do what he does. He is fast , allusive, quick, has a fast release, strong arm, is accurate in the pocket and on the move. Due to his baseball background, He along with Mahomes, is one of a few passers who can throw from all angles. He can revolutionize the RPO. He is made for the pistol. He can be the future of the QB position.
Put Murray in the backfield with Barkley and they will cause nightmares for opposing defensive coordinators.
I would not want to play the Giants.
There are a lot of red flags with Murray. Not picking him doesn't mean you're playing it safe as much as it means you may legitimately understand how bad some of those flags are.
Look at the video I linked above, he threw it 55 yards in the air while running into double coverage. Hits the WR is stride
That's an interesting comment. I looked up his history re fumbles. In 9 games in 2015 for Texas A & M, he fumbled 3 times and lost 1. In 14 games in 2018 for Oklahoma, he fumbled 3 times and lost 2.
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Great play. It illustrates two of his attributes - throwing the deep ball accurately and being able to throw on the run.
sober297 : 10:06 am : link : reply
demand he fit into a taller man's offense, or design an offense around him, ala Russell Wilson.
The Seahawks didn't design an offense around Wilson. And keep in mind, there is a vast difference between Wilson and Murray. One is a scrambling QB, the other is a running QB.
Look at Lamar Jackson. He won a Heisman Trophy. Everyone marveled at how his has a great arm and can make all the throws. What happened? He was reduced his rookie season to being a running QB, who very much struggled to make throws. You don't think there's a highlight reel out there that shows Jackson making the same type of plays? And Jackson is 6'3" and 220 pounds.
What Jackson will have to prove is that he can be a NFL-caliber thrower of the ball. Murray will too. Successful mobile QB's use the mobility to buy time to complete passes or they situationally run when it is available. Running QB's either go off of designed running plays or they make a quick read and if it isn't open, they take off.
It is much easier to defend a running QB in the NFL. They will have a shitload of highlights from college though.
I wouldn't trust Murray lasting more than a season or two getting hit by 300 pound linemen.
2. He played in the Big 12, where they are all allergic to good defense.
Not his fault obviously. And he has great speed and elusiveness with his feet. And he throws a nice long ball.
But I want to see film of him doing it under severe pressure from 6'5" men to WR who are closely covered.
QB injuries normally occur in the pocket more times than on the run. Most times the QB slides, dives, runs OOB ....
And I don't mean purely pocket passer, I just mean that he'd play more like Wilson then RG3 (someone who can stand in the pocket and read a defense vs. someone who couldn't).
Theres going to be many layers to scouting Murray, it will definitely be interesting.
Not his fault obviously. And he has great speed and elusiveness with his feet. And he throws a nice long ball.
But I want to see film of him doing it under severe pressure from 6'5" men to WR who are closely covered.
1- i posted a highlight above of that
2- hasnt the rationale for Eli Mannings struggles been that he is under so much pressure no one can do anything and/or no one is open?
I'm pretty high on Murray myself, but in what world is he more athletic than Michael Vick?
This one. 2 professional leagues are fighting for this kid. He just won the Heisman in the sport he wasnt signed to a pro deal
I think you are confusing "skill" and athleticism. Murray's ability to play two sports shows incredible skill (e.g. hand-eye coordination, timing, etc.)
Athleticism is purely about physical attributes such as speed, agility, strength and explosiveness. Michael Vick in his prime is hands down the better athlete of the two. A comparison of their numbers after Murray goes through the combine should make this clear.
There are a lot of red flags with Murray. Not picking him doesn't mean you're playing it safe as much as it means you may legitimately understand how bad some of those flags are.
I believe the NFL missed out on Flutie’s best years. He came back in his mid 30’s and had some magic moments. Now the rules and style of play are even more conducive to the success of smaller QB’s. I want to see this guy in Giant blue with Saquon, Odell, and Engram. This could be a special offense. This kid will make the existing OL that much better with his ability to run and avoid the rush. This kid is not RG III a runner who can throw; this kid can sling it with the best of them, and run like no other QB since Vick. Please NYG draft Kyler Murray if he is there at pick six.
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I'm pretty high on Murray myself, but in what world is he more athletic than Michael Vick?
This one. 2 professional leagues are fighting for this kid. He just won the Heisman in the sport he wasnt signed to a pro deal
I think you are confusing "skill" and athleticism. Murray's ability to play two sports shows incredible skill (e.g. hand-eye coordination, timing, etc.)
Athleticism is purely about physical attributes such as speed, agility, strength and explosiveness. Michael Vick in his prime is hands down the better athlete of the two. A comparison of their numbers after Murray goes through the combine should make this clear.
Does it even matter? Murray is an incredible athlete and unquestionably a top 2 or 3 athlete at the QB position. GBN listed its top 154 prospects. You know the one with the best anticipated 40 time? Kyler Murray.
And then you mistake that athleticism for someone who runs. In the Bama game, he used it to escape pressure and threw a 55 yard rope for a TD. You say he’s athletic, so you call him Lamar Jackson. Except Jackson completed 58% of his passes in college; Murray completed 70% of his.
I’ve said this before: try running the “Double Eagle” D the Chargers used to shut down Jackson. If a team did that, OBJ would break the single game receiving record.
For people who say he can’t read Ds; that’s similarly nonsense. And you don’t need to listen to me. Listen to McShay on the Rich Eisen show, where he calls Murray advanced at doing so.
I’m tired of people calling someone flawed and saying we shouldn’t draft them. Every prospect is flawed; everyone has something to work on. The question is whether the prospect has a fatal flaw. Murray does not.
Flutie additionally says the implementation of unfold offenses all through the NFL will assist Murray discover passing lanes … and says it should not be exhausting for him to copy the success he had at Oklahoma.
“He can throw from all kinds of angles. We see that with [Patrick] Mahomes and you’ll have the same thing with Kyler Murray.”
Agree with this.
The game is changing, and if the Giants don't adapt they're going to keep floundering.
The rules are there to protect QB's in the pocket. Not running QB's. And the style of play is actually more benefical to pocket passers or scrambling QB's who buy time to throw because WR's will either get open or draw a penalty.
The style of play is not more friendly for any size QB who runs. Where they used to have plodding LB's and fat DL's chasing them, they not have quick 250-300 pounders chasing them, many who aren't that much slower. Murray will basically be smaller than almost every defensive player out there
Which 5'10" rookie are you talking about?
Mayfield was 6'+.
The style of play in todays game rewards teams that can chuck it. You can’t get away with defensive style of play like Mel Blount back in the day. Mobile QB’s who can sling it and fast paced offenses that limit substitutions have a huge advantage in today’s game. You may have lighter and faster DT’s but if you can’t sub them out they will get gassed and frustrated chasing the likes of Murray, Saquon, OBJ, and Engram. Agree to disagree, you can make a reasonable argument on both sides but I am all in on Murray
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Now the rules and style of play are even more conducive to the success of smaller QB’s
The rules are there to protect QB's in the pocket. Not running QB's. And the style of play is actually more benefical to pocket passers or scrambling QB's who buy time to throw because WR's will either get open or draw a penalty.
The style of play is not more friendly for any size QB who runs. Where they used to have plodding LB's and fat DL's chasing them, they not have quick 250-300 pounders chasing them, many who aren't that much slower. Murray will basically be smaller than almost every defensive player out there
If you look of what Nagy has Trubisky doing you absolutely can protect the QB when he runs. He rarely takes hits in the running game. He is constantly sliding before contact. I've seen him slide multiple times on 3rd down before the sticks when he probably could have fought for the 3rd down. Now he actually hurt his shoulder sliding, but that seems like kind of a fluky thing.
Does it even matter? Murray is an incredible athlete and unquestionably a top 2 or 3 athlete at the QB position. GBN listed its top 154 prospects. You know the one with the best anticipated 40 time? Kyler Murray.
And then you mistake that athleticism for someone who runs. In the Bama game, he used it to escape pressure and threw a 55 yard rope for a TD. You say he’s athletic, so you call him Lamar Jackson. Except Jackson completed 58% of his passes in college; Murray completed 70% of his.
I’ve said this before: try running the “Double Eagle” D the Chargers used to shut down Jackson. If a team did that, OBJ would break the single game receiving record.
For people who say he can’t read Ds; that’s similarly nonsense. And you don’t need to listen to me. Listen to McShay on the Rich Eisen show, where he calls Murray advanced at doing so.
I’m tired of people calling someone flawed and saying we shouldn’t draft them. Every prospect is flawed; everyone has something to work on. The question is whether the prospect has a fatal flaw. Murray does not.
I haven't seen many people around here crushing Murray about his athleticism, arm, intellect, movement, etc. From what I can tell, me included, he has been applauded for his skill sets.
But to discount his size - and he's small - as if it's insignificant is poor judgment. It's a major, major issue. And I think it makes him the most unusual first round prospect we've ever seen.
Here are their numbers compared at Oklahoma:
Mayfield (2017)
Passing: 285/404, 4627, 11.5 Y/A, 43/6
Rushing: 97/311/5
Murray (2018)
Passing: 260/377, 4361, 11.6 Y/A, 42/7
Rushing: 140/1001/12
I understand concerns over his size, but Murray was an elite passer in college last year. The equal at least of Haskins, Tua, and Lawrence. And head to head in the semifinal I thought he was a better passer than Tua.
Murray is not a running QB. He's a top shelf passer.
Fumbling machine?
He's never fumbled in college.
Being small isn't fatal in itself. Being slight isn't. Having small hands isn't.
Put them all together and you have a very risky pick. Murray might actually have 3 fatal flaws.
I will say it one more time - Murray will be the smallest, lightest QB to play the game in recent time
He's either having designed runs or he's making a quick read and taking off. He's not scrambling very often to buy time, he's either throwing it or taking off.
Mayfield is a scrambler.
If he has the discipline to be a scrambler, that's fine, but we rarely see guys show that restraint.
If I had to go with Murray at 6 or trade up to get Tua next year, I’d rather just go with Murray and keep my assets. If it doesn’t work out, we can at least react to it a year sooner.
I know jobs are on the line and it doesn’t work that way, but I think he’s be electric with Barkley and Beckham, especially if we keep adding to the OL.
He's either having designed runs or he's making a quick read and taking off. He's not scrambling very often to buy time, he's either throwing it or taking off.
Mayfield is a scrambler.
If he has the discipline to be a scrambler, that's fine, but we rarely see guys show that restraint.
But isn't that going to be on his coaches to design an offense that incorporates his ability to extend plays? Think about the long TD throw he had against Alabama...that play was fucking ridiculous, and a result of Murray keeping his eyes downfield while creating time with his legs.
I think this guy is a better player than Haskins. I understand the concern over his size, but he's a hell of a player.
It's not just about attempting to be a two sport athlete, which an NFL QB can NOT attempt, it's also the fear that he wakes up one day and says my life would be easier in center field.
I would need assurances that it's football all the way.
While his size is an issue, he is an exciting player, and I do wonder if there is a place for him in the evolving NFL. I'm not, nor have I ever been a running QB guy, but he can throw the ball. It is exciting just to be talking about this after many said we'd be out of QB options and destined for hell after passing last year.
This is a good article from September on how Murray avoids taking big hits. Statistically at his size he's far more likely to get hurt. However, you look at a guy like Eli Manning who has the requisite height but isn't exactly a physical specimen and even at age 37 he didn't get banged up at all. He's taken some hits over the years that you'd certainly think would injure a guy in his physical shape. Some guys just know how to avoid it better than others.
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I'm not even a Murray guy. I know almost nothing about him.
But there was a lot of 'size' talk as a means of dismissing legitimacy of quarterbacks last year, as there is every year.
Though for the record, it would be hard for me to think a guy that's 5'9-5'10 could make it at that position unless he had some kind of elite skill.
It's not just about attempting to be a two sport athlete, which an NFL QB can NOT attempt, it's also the fear that he wakes up one day and says my life would be easier in center field.
I would need assurances that it's football all the way.
While his size is an issue, he is an exciting player, and I do wonder if there is a place for him in the evolving NFL. I'm not, nor have I ever been a running QB guy, but he can throw the ball. It is exciting just to be talking about this after many said we'd be out of QB options and destined for hell after passing last year.
Unless Murray is assured by Beane and the A's that he won't be in the minors for more than a month, Murray isn't going back to baseball. He loves the big stage. Loves big crowds. He loves football, and likes that the NFL doesn't have a minor league system.
Someone linked to a very interesting article the other day that contains interviews with Murray's former high school and college teammates, and high school coaches. And it was clear that doing a minor league circuit grind was something Murray had zero interest in. The thought of playing baseball in small cities in front of 500 people was/is a real turnoff.
NC State ran the option occasionally, but Wilson was always a scrambling QB. One of the question marks regarding Wilson when he transferred was if he could play in a more pro style offense and he could. Had 33 TD's with 4INT's and his completion % was above 70% while never being above 60% at NC State. He pretty much gave the NFL a glimpse that he wasn't a running QB as he had half the normal attempts he had rushing at NCST.
Murray is a dynamic player, and even then. he's giving up more than a inch and 30 pounds to Wilson.
But Murray rushed for >700 yards and 7 TDs more despite only 3 more rushes per game.
And Murray was a far more accomplished passer than Lamar Jackson in college. They're not remotely similar players.
and had 143 rush attempts that same year.
yeah, I imagine a bunch of those are actually sacks right? Isn't that how college counts those?
And had 378 or fewer his 3 other seasons. Also finished with a college comp% = 60.9% vs Murray's 67.4%.
Just a note, but sacks in college are considered rushing attempts, so that should put it into perspective that he ran fewer times than you think he did. It’s also amazing that he ran for 1000 yards on 140 attempts. He basically ran for 1100 yards on 120 attempts, assuming he was sacked 20 times for a loss of 100 yards.
By the way, Cutcliffe called running plays for Daniel Jones. A lot of them, actually. How many people here consider him a running QB?
And the Seahawks' offense got worse the more they threw the ball. They switched it back this year and got better.
But I don't see Wilson and Murray as similar players. Murray is much more explosive.
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had a season with 527 pass attempts
And the Seahawks' offense got worse the more they threw the ball. They switched it back this year and got better.
But I don't see Wilson and Murray as similar players. Murray is much more explosive.
He was talking about in college.
Interesting about Jones at Duke. In 2016 and 2017 he has more rushes than Murray did last year. Again, have to correct for sacks.
And regarding comps to Lamar Jackson. Jackson was a different type of player in college. He ran the ball quite a bit more than Murray did. 260 & 232 times his last two years. I'm a huge Jackson fan, but he can fairly be called a running QB. I don't think that applies to Murray.
Fun fact - he had 3 receptions while at Wisconsin
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In comment 14266759 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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had a season with 527 pass attempts
And the Seahawks' offense got worse the more they threw the ball. They switched it back this year and got better.
But I don't see Wilson and Murray as similar players. Murray is much more explosive.
He was talking about in college.
Sorry, my mistake.
Mayfield too, they're both thickly built guys. I'm not sure I see that with Murray, he's built like slot back. Does he have the frame to add 15-20 lbs? That's something they'll have to look at.
Even if you decide he's an injury risk and likely to miss some games, I don't think that should stop a team from drafting him early. There are plenty of QBs out there that are capable of holding down the fort for a handful of games - Foles and Keenum have turned that experience into big contracts. However, it's incredibly difficult to find QBs that can be true difference makers and elevate the team around them. If you decide Murray can be one of those guys, you take him because the upside far outweighs the risk.
It would be shocking to me if Murray did not succeed as a passer. Certainly, there is nothing to suggest that he can’t sling it - and do so accurately - at the next level. And that is what differentiates him from Vick and Jackson.
People complain about his slight build and argue that it puts him at risk of injury. But I don’t think that is true. Russell Wilson and Brees are the smallest QBs in the NFL, and they have been healthy with out issue (Brees got hurt early, but that was unrelated to height or build). Meanwhile some of the bigger QBs - Luck, Newton, Big Ben, Wentz - have missed significant time due to injury.
With the changing NFL, I don’t believe height is a predictor I’d anything. I believe it’s even less of a concern if he measures in at the height At which OU listed him.
As was pointed out to you in the other thread, build is not a predictor of injury. Slight or not
Last year I was repeatedly assured that slight Josh Rosen would be injured by the wind let aline an NFL player and he did not get injured yet the appropriately built Darnold did as did the "monster" Josh Allen, who i pointed out had a ling injury history already
You would think a fanbase that saw slender Eli become an "iron man" but not "Big Ben" would know this
Furthermore, basing a rookie year of staying healthy or being hurt isn't indicative of anything.
You can continue to reason away that being slight AND short isn't an issue.
I assure those who will make the selection or will pass will know it is an issue
Not saying he isn't good, in fact I'm very impressed with him and think he will be drafted before Haskins.
Just saying this is a better gauge of what you will get in the NFL. Link - ( New Window )
Based on the video, that was a solid performance.
If I had to go with Murray at 6 or trade up to get Tua next year, I’d rather just go with Murray and keep my assets. If it doesn’t work out, we can at least react to it a year sooner.
I know jobs are on the line and it doesn’t work that way, but I think he’s be electric with Barkley and Beckham, especially if we keep adding to the OL.
+1. This post makes a ton of sense.
Andrew Perloff
Andrew Perloff
@andrewperloff
"He’s the best athlete on the field and the smartest player on the field at the same time." - Oklahoma coach Lincoln Riley on Kyler Murray (
@dpshow
)
9:27 AM · Dec 3, 2018 · Twitter Web Client
I think his Wonderlic will be just fine
You’re kidding, right?
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He was considered a top prospect in the 2015 MLB draft. He could have gone off and played baseball immediately out of high school and had a nice payday. Instead, he opts to go to college and play football.
Then, in 2018, he was selected with the #9 overall pick in the MLB draft and signed a $4.4M contract with the A's. He still decides he is willing to risk that by going to play a full season of D1 college football in the Big 12. So, he clearly loves the game of football! He barely played at all before the 2018 season and once he was drafted by an MLB team he could have just walked away from football and been a millionaire. Instead he played football just for the love of the game, and he went and won a Heisman trophy.
My point is this: If this kid already went out and played a full season of D1 football FOR FREE at the risk of getting injured and losing his baseball career (running around "undersized" and at risk of injuring his "slight frame"), why the hell would he now pass up MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in guaranteed money to play the sport he loves on the biggest stage of all? A first round pick, no less, and not to mention he plays the position he plays is far and away the most lucrative of all positions in the NFL.
I don't see this kid passing up on the sport he loves NOW,at this point, when he could make tons of money doing it, after he ALREADY has done it for free at the risk of losing his baseball $ and career. I don't buy the idea that he will be convinced that he's all of a sudden going to get injured (even though he's never been injured playing football) just because NFL defenders are so big and fast and scary. It's not about what anyone else says, it's about what he feels he's capable of doing, and from everything this kid has done I don't see him backing down now just to make the more conservative "business decision".
I am not sure what I think on how he will translate to the NFL, but he is not just a great runner, he throws a GREAT long ball. I would be both terrified and ecstatic at drafting him... lol
The Combine will tell all, but even Oklahoma's team website, and team websites are always known to be generous, only lists him at 5'10.
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He is not slight he is actually fairly muscular. I have seen people calling him 5'9 here and I don't think he is that short.
The Combine will tell all, but even Oklahoma's team website, and team websites are always known to be generous, only lists him at 5'10.
For sure, but just looking at him next to other players on his team I am thinking 5'10 seems likely correct. Anyway don't they list him at 5'11? He doesn't look much shorter to me than Russell Wilson or even Drew Brees. Wilson is definitely beefier though, especially in the legs.
Not sure what I think about drafting him though. Like I said I can totally see getting excited about drafting him.. but yeah his size does have to give you concern.
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In comment 14267822 Johnny5 said:
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He is not slight he is actually fairly muscular. I have seen people calling him 5'9 here and I don't think he is that short.
The Combine will tell all, but even Oklahoma's team website, and team websites are always known to be generous, only lists him at 5'10.
For sure, but just looking at him next to other players on his team I am thinking 5'10 seems likely correct. Anyway don't they list him at 5'11? He doesn't look much shorter to me than Russell Wilson or even Drew Brees. Wilson is definitely beefier though, especially in the legs.
Not sure what I think about drafting him though. Like I said I can totally see getting excited about drafting him.. but yeah his size does have to give you concern.
They list him at 5'11", yes. Baker Mayfield is 6'1" and seeing them stand next to each other I don't see a huge height difference. There is no way Baker is 4 inches taller than Murray, NO WAY. My prediction is Murray will measure at 5'10" and change, no shorter than 5'10" even, though.
That RPO would just be insane. Saquon would rush for 2000 yards.
Coming out of the first with Devin White and Kylar Murray would be amazing.
Coming out of the first with Devin White and Kylar Murray would be amazing.
As much as I would love that, we need an OL with 1 of the first 2 picks. Of course maybe FA we get a player or 2 and that thinking changes. I do think the Giants have to come away with either Haskins or Murray in this draft.
To be honest. I wouldn't mind going Murray at 6 and RT in the second. I think that would turn this team around.
2) If they don't keep him in the pocket and he runs, he will frequently get tackled by one or more 300 lb. guys
3) Even if he stays healthy and mostly runs to extend plays and throw, he may still decide to play a sport where 300lb guys don't keep trying to knock him down.
2) If they don't keep him in the pocket and he runs, he will frequently get tackled by one or more 300 lb. guys
3) Even if he stays healthy and mostly runs to extend plays and throw, he may still decide to play a sport where 300lb guys don't keep trying to knock him down.
1.) is a bit of a reach NFL is all about throwing lanes, no defense just rushes side by side with their arms up. Eli is 6'4 and has multiple balls batted down. If Murray has the ability to feel pressure and slide to open lanes he'll be fine. Brees and Wilson are great at that.
2 and 3.) This is where smarts come in, getting down and running out of bounds will be important. Is Murray able to understand this or will he always attempt to take unnecessary hits.
The talent is there, the guy can flat out play football, this isn't a gaudy stat QB without NFL ability. Besides size Murray can make every NFL throw.
The number of them who are bucking the odds and succeeding in the NFL despite being too short or slight in very small.
Murray often runs after his first read. Not sure how that checks the boxes off.
Pass...
I definitely don’t think round one. Round two feels closer, but still a stretch.
Maybe round three?
Pass...
Same here.
Somehow I just can't see DG who loves his Hog Mollies in the trenches, liking a player of Murray's stature leading his offense.
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If you can read defenses, have great pocket awareness, and make throws, you will succeed.
Murray often runs after his first read. Not sure how that checks the boxes off.
No I realize it's difficult if the Giants scouting department feel Murray can do all the things I mentioned, I would not hesitate to pick him due to his size. Obviously it's a good debate size vs skill. I think he can make the read and the throws. It wasn't like Oklahoma had some small line he could see over, they averaged 6'5. To me Murray is a slightly smaller Mayfield with better speed and no off the field antics. But, time will tell.
The number of them who are bucking the odds and succeeding in the NFL despite being too short or slight in very small.
Yeah but you forgot something. The number of guys who played NCAA football at the level Kyler Murray played at last year you could count on the fingers of one or at most two hands. He wasn't just GOOD at NCAA level ball. His size won't be the issue IMO.
His body didn't hold up. I see the same thing happening to Murray, would not draft him.