I know it's early and he is small...but Kylar Murray

The whole thing with QB's is changeing, I like him. I'm in

is just a thing of beauty.

throws the ball a long way, and sends the ball pretty much where he wants it to go.

I get the argument about measurable physical attributes, but I think he is really good at football.

I predict he is not there when we pick at #6, but if he was, I'd be fine with the pick.

the kid is dynamic but (I know I'm not the first to say it) his WRs are so incredibly wide open on some of those plays (obviously not his fault, he's taking what's given to him) and he is really small. I'm not sure yet. He's interesting

but an undersized QB that relies on his legs is a a real long shot to build a team around and expect him to bring them a championship. Not a gamble I want the Giants to take.

and he doesn't rely only on his legs...he's no Lamar Jackson, this kid can sling the fackin rock... He is so elusive that he won't get hit like you'd expect..I'm warming up to him

Take a chance he’s the NFL draft to get a bigger baseball payday?

In comment 14266055 kennyd said:

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the kid is dynamic but (I know I'm not the first to say it) his WRs are so incredibly wide open on some of those plays (obviously not his fault, he's taking what's given to him) and he is really small. I'm not sure yet. He's interesting

Lol! So it's his fault that some of the TD passes he threw were to wide open receivers? I'm pretty sure that highlight reel showed almost all of his TDs from last season, so obviously not every single one of them is going to blow your mind. There are plenty of throws on that reel that show him throwing the ball perfectly into tight windows.

In comment 14266065 Leg of Theismann said:

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In comment 14266055 kennyd said: Quote: the kid is dynamic but (I know I'm not the first to say it) his WRs are so incredibly wide open on some of those plays (obviously not his fault, he's taking what's given to him) and he is really small. I'm not sure yet. He's interesting Lol! So it's his fault that some of the TD passes he threw were to wide open receivers? I'm pretty sure that highlight reel showed almost all of his TDs from last season, so obviously not every single one of them is going to blow your mind. There are plenty of throws on that reel that show him throwing the ball perfectly into tight windows.

I know you said "obviously not his fault"... but still, you can't count that as a knock in any way. Sure that's probably why he amassed over 5000 total yards and 50 TDs, but he also did plenty more where it didn't look so easy.

If he were 6' or 6'1", teams would be falling over themselves to draft this kid. He is arguably the best athlete to ever play the QB position. And, yes, that includes Michael Vick. Whereas Lamar Jackson completed 58% of his passes in college, Murray completed 70% of his, and the metrics suggest he had the greatest collegiate season for any QB ever.

Yes, his height is a concern, but his skillset is not. He can make every throw. The lanes his running ability would open up for Saquon would be disgusting. I seriously believe that if Murray were our QB, Saquon would run for 2000 yards. Plus, whenever Murray broke the pocket, teams would be forced to respect his running ability, which would result in blown coverages down the field. I'm all in on the kid.

In comment 14266067 Giants38 said:

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If he were 6' or 6'1", teams would be falling over themselves to draft this kid. He is arguably the best athlete to ever play the QB position. And, yes, that includes Michael Vick. Whereas Lamar Jackson completed 58% of his passes in college, Murray completed 70% of his, and the metrics suggest he had the greatest collegiate season for any QB ever. Yes, his height is a concern, but his skillset is not. He can make every throw. The lanes his running ability would open up for Saquon would be disgusting. I seriously believe that if Murray were our QB, Saquon would run for 2000 yards. Plus, whenever Murray broke the pocket, teams would be forced to respect his running ability, which would result in blown coverages down the field. I'm all in on the kid.

That’s all very true. His ability to run so amazingly is where the concern for injury comes from. He is a definite high risk/high reward player. It’s gonna be great to watch him play in the NFL wherever he ends up I think. I am pulling for the kid.

In comment 14266053 bw in dc said:

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is just a thing of beauty.

The fact he outran the entire Texas defense on that play, including a flat out footrace with 2 DBs. I mean, he's not playing Monmouth here, lol. Those are starters in a Big 12 defensive secondary. Give me that kind of speed at the QB position, combined with a rocket arm, enough productivity to win the Heisman, enough natural athleticism to be a professional in multiple sports... you can keep those extra couple of inches in height.

I've seen it posted on this site elsewhere... if Kyler Murray were 6'2", he would be the consensus #1 overall pick in this draft (either by the Cards or a team trading up to get him). I don't understand why him being less than 1/2" shorter than Russell Wilson is reason to count him out, and I don't believe that just because he is "smallish" that he is just going to get injured right away. Plenty of small-bodied, durable players in the NFL over the years. Plenty of big-bodied, not so durable players in the NFL over the years.

I truly believe we would see some incredible things with Murray, Barkley, and Beckham... especially when a play breaks down and they need to improvise. These guys are all just flat-out gamers AND freak athletes. Fun Fun Fun.

No...No...No

We'll see how tall he actually is, how fast he is, how much he weighs and how strong he is.

and he's not thick like a Sproles. He will get killed. There is a reason GMs look for 6'4" 230 athletes. No no no a thousand times no

love it

weight to Julian Edelman.

Can't think outside your own comfort zone.

But Boy is he fun to watch. Off the top of my head, a lot of those highlights were on 3rd downs, even 3rd and longs.

Put him on the Giants, and he adds wins, 3-4 at least all by himself. Why?

a) Huge uptick in red zone production % and sum.
b) Huge uptick in 3rd down conversion % and sum.
c.) Would generate more success and TDs from improvised plays.

All this, as long as he stays on the field.

We need those kind. Draft him if he’s there to be had.

and 20lbs lighter than Russell Wilson. Put on more weight and if he can be as smart as Wilson when running with the ball, I'd say he has a shot.

tall QBs. We need tall WRS! Draft Murray and Hakeem Butler -- away we go!

his actual height when they measure him at the Combine. I agree with those who say if not for his height/weight he would be both the best player and best QB in this year's draft.

But he had a lot of time in clean pockets and wide open receivers on a number of those highlights.

And remember folks were saying too short, open receivers, Big 12 defenses about Mayfield. Now Murray is even smaller than Mayfield but he is an amazing talent. It would be something to see him in blue.

The first pass was a jump ball that the receiver made a play on. The next 4 were clean pockets and wide receivers wide open. Not saying I k now enough about him to want to draft him or not. Just saying the "highlight" reel is not an NFL reel.

I'll pass on a 5'10" QB. BTW, name two f'10" QBs that ever won a superbowl...

.

where i'm ok taking a shot and pushing the chips on the table. If he doesn't work out that will suck, we will be fucked for a few years then we can try again. But if he does work out....it can be fucking glorious.

I'd be perfectly fine taking him (especially in a trade down).

In comment 14266104 PBMedia said:

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The first pass was a jump ball that the receiver made a play on. The next 4 were clean pockets and wide receivers wide open. Not saying I k now enough about him to want to draft him or not. Just saying the "highlight" reel is not an NFL reel. I'll pass on a 5'10" QB. BTW, name two f'10" QBs that ever won a superbowl...

Russell Wilson would've had two rings if they just handed the ball off to Lynch.

In comment 14266126 RomanWH said:

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In comment 14266104 PBMedia said: Quote: The first pass was a jump ball that the receiver made a play on. The next 4 were clean pockets and wide receivers wide open. Not saying I k now enough about him to want to draft him or not. Just saying the "highlight" reel is not an NFL reel. I'll pass on a 5'10" QB. BTW, name two f'10" QBs that ever won a superbowl... Russell Wilson would've had two rings if they just handed the ball off to Lynch.

Thanks Pete Carroll!

What does he do when his primary target is covered?

From this highlight reel, Murray locks onto his primary target and if he is covered, Murray runs the ball. I didn't see much of him using his second and third receiving options or him using his legs to extend the play to give WRs the time to come open. It seemed like there were two options, pass to the primary or run the ball.

If he does that in the NFL, he will not last long.

Doing big boy things from small shortcomings. Will be interesting to see how baker does over time

this is true:

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Think About This Giants38 : 1:54 am : link : reply If he were 6' or 6'1", teams would be falling over themselves to draft this kid.

Lamar Jackson is much bigger than Murray and teams weren't falling all over themselves to draft him.

Murray will be one of the shortest, lightest QB's to ever play the position in an Era where defenders are much bigger and stronger and only slightly slower.

It is a recipe for a short career. He isn't a pocket passer or a scrambler, he is a runner.

Not to mention, what do you do when you draft him, build an offensive scheme around him and he gets hurt week 4? You aren't just losing a player, you are fucked with the scheme.

In comment 14266069 Leg of Theismann said:

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In comment 14266053 bw in dc said: Quote: is just a thing of beauty. The fact he outran the entire Texas defense on that play, including a flat out footrace with 2 DBs. I mean, he's not playing Monmouth here, lol. Those are starters in a Big 12 defensive secondary. Give me that kind of speed at the QB position, combined with a rocket arm, enough productivity to win the Heisman, enough natural athleticism to be a professional in multiple sports... you can keep those extra couple of inches in height. I've seen it posted on this site elsewhere... if Kyler Murray were 6'2", he would be the consensus #1 overall pick in this draft (either by the Cards or a team trading up to get him). I don't understand why him being less than 1/2" shorter than Russell Wilson is reason to count him out, and I don't believe that just because he is "smallish" that he is just going to get injured right away. Plenty of small-bodied, durable players in the NFL over the years. Plenty of big-bodied, not so durable players in the NFL over the years. I truly believe we would see some incredible things with Murray, Barkley, and Beckham... especially when a play breaks down and they need to improvise. These guys are all just flat-out gamers AND freak athletes. Fun Fun Fun.

Love his game. I’ve been touting his play all year. Was saying back in September he’s the most amazing offensive player I’ve ever seen in the college game. And it just never stopped - he kept putting up great performance after great performance.

But I’m a believer in NFL metrics, almost to a fault, especially for the QB position, and have started to hold Murray’s size against him. I know the NFL is gradually morphing into arena football; and the rules may make it easier to break some of the conventional wisdom.

But investing first round dollars on such an unusual prospect is way too risky. As dynamic as he is, he’s very likely going to get hurt because mobile QBs get hurt. It’s just the nature of the sport and history bears that out. So unless we could get him in round 3,4 or 5, I take my chances somewhere else.

it would bring a level of excitement that the fanbase hasn't seen in years. It not only signals that they are willing to go away from the old school thought process of what a NFL QB should be, but also allows for Shurmur to get really creative on offense. The ability to extend plays with his legs... The ability to be an actual run option threat when running an RPO... If he turns into a faster Baker Mayfield, sign me up.

yes drew brees, yes seattle's wilson - but most QBs are 6'2 or taller and there is a reason for that.

it's the 6th pick, better be sure

and the size is certainly a concern. Valid arguments on both sides. But the thing that tips the scale for me is that he does have such an easy and lucrative out - MLB. My concern would be if he is not having instance success, or sustains a couple of early injuries and is in and out of the lineup, will he just realize there is another game he can play for a living with much less physical wear and tear?

For that reason I would not touch him with a first round pick.

Its more telling then his "highlight" videos.

Not saying he isn't good, in fact I'm very impressed with him and think he will be drafted before Haskins.

Just saying this is a better gauge of what you will get in the NFL.
Link - ( New Window )

he wouldn't be heading down this path if he didn't, he would just play baseball like guys like Weinke and Henson did.

in there. He's throwing in a clean pocket most of the time.

If he can stay healthy, he will be a great QB, but the Giants are still 20 years behind the times and in a million years would never pick this player as their franchise QB. I would be thrilled with Haskins even. He is more durable and would fit right in, maybe it takes him a year or two but big deal. I don't think the Giants will take either guy and we will remain in QB hell because this organization is afraid to fail, while they are failing miserably.

In comment 14266202 ATL_Giants said:

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in there. He's throwing in a clean pocket most of the time.

Watch the video i linked if you want to see him without a clean pocket.

Video linked
Video - ( New Window )

do not showcase pressure. That's the college game for the most part. So dismissing a guy because there isn't much pressure is the epitome of lazy. Go take a look at Luck's Stanford tape, tons of clean pockets.

If you don't want Murray that's fine, but lack of pressure shouldn't be the reason.

In comment 14266067 Giants38 said:

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If he were 6' or 6'1", teams would be falling over themselves to draft this kid. He is arguably the best athlete to ever play the QB position. And, yes, that includes Michael Vick. Whereas Lamar Jackson completed 58% of his passes in college, Murray completed 70% of his, and the metrics suggest he had the greatest collegiate season for any QB ever. Yes, his height is a concern, but his skillset is not. He can make every throw. The lanes his running ability would open up for Saquon would be disgusting. I seriously believe that if Murray were our QB, Saquon would run for 2000 yards. Plus, whenever Murray broke the pocket, teams would be forced to respect his running ability, which would result in blown coverages down the field. I'm all in on the kid.

I'm pretty high on Murray myself, but in what world is he more athletic than Michael Vick?

In comment 14266244 FearTheHippo said:

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In comment 14266067 Giants38 said: Quote: If he were 6' or 6'1", teams would be falling over themselves to draft this kid. He is arguably the best athlete to ever play the QB position. And, yes, that includes Michael Vick. Whereas Lamar Jackson completed 58% of his passes in college, Murray completed 70% of his, and the metrics suggest he had the greatest collegiate season for any QB ever. Yes, his height is a concern, but his skillset is not. He can make every throw. The lanes his running ability would open up for Saquon would be disgusting. I seriously believe that if Murray were our QB, Saquon would run for 2000 yards. Plus, whenever Murray broke the pocket, teams would be forced to respect his running ability, which would result in blown coverages down the field. I'm all in on the kid. I'm pretty high on Murray myself, but in what world is he more athletic than Michael Vick?

This one. 2 professional leagues are fighting for this kid. He just won the Heisman in the sport he wasnt signed to a pro deal

In comment 14266268 twostepgiants said:

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In comment 14266244 FearTheHippo said: Quote: In comment 14266067 Giants38 said: Quote: If he were 6' or 6'1", teams would be falling over themselves to draft this kid. He is arguably the best athlete to ever play the QB position. And, yes, that includes Michael Vick. Whereas Lamar Jackson completed 58% of his passes in college, Murray completed 70% of his, and the metrics suggest he had the greatest collegiate season for any QB ever. Yes, his height is a concern, but his skillset is not. He can make every throw. The lanes his running ability would open up for Saquon would be disgusting. I seriously believe that if Murray were our QB, Saquon would run for 2000 yards. Plus, whenever Murray broke the pocket, teams would be forced to respect his running ability, which would result in blown coverages down the field. I'm all in on the kid. I'm pretty high on Murray myself, but in what world is he more athletic than Michael Vick? This one. 2 professional leagues are fighting for this kid. He just won the Heisman in the sport he wasnt signed to a pro deal

In the football world, I think Vick is every bit the athlete, besides the fact he is quite a bit bigger. I'll grant you that being an A+ athlete in both baseball and football is scarce. Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders are the only two I can think of. Although John Elway was quite a CF in baseball along with being a HoF QB.

One of the first ways that I evaluate offensive players is I question how I would defend the player and what he does to a defense.

Murray is a match up nightmare.
Defenses will have creatively figure out how to defense him.

I am not certain that there is a QB who can do what he does. He is fast , allusive, quick, has a fast release, strong arm, is accurate in the pocket and on the move. Due to his baseball background, He along with Mahomes, is one of a few passers who can throw from all angles. He can revolutionize the RPO. He is made for the pistol. He can be the future of the QB position.

Put Murray in the backfield with Barkley and they will cause nightmares for opposing defensive coordinators.

I would not want to play the Giants.

people are framing this discussion is that Murray is a can't miss player and if the Giants don't pick him, not only are they stuck in an old mentality, but they are also doomed for failure.

There are a lot of red flags with Murray. Not picking him doesn't mean you're playing it safe as much as it means you may legitimately understand how bad some of those flags are.

have not had major problems IMO and I don't believe DG is the type of guy that looks only at size. He's mentioned that their scouting process will also now look at production as well. Can the guy play?! Drew Brees, Russ Wilson, Mayfield. They all can throw the ball and get it to the playmakers. having some mobility also helps them and gives the defense another dynamic to think about. He would make this offense extremely dangerous, if the Oline can be improved, as well. Could the Giants draft him, yes I believe they actually could if DG is true to his word.