Just watch these highlights...I can't imagine having that type of player in blue...we've never had a guy like this...He flicks the ball 60 yards, and is so MF'ing fast..He is a game changer that when paired with SB, and OBJ....Engram, and Sterling...wow
That would be worth the price of admission, and our Offense would set records...I just don't think he can physically handle the NFL for more than a few seasons...but dammit if I'm not super intrigued by this kid
Kylar is a freak - (
New Window )
Look at the video I linked above, he threw it 55 yards in the air while running into double coverage. Hits the WR is stride
That's an interesting comment. I looked up his history re fumbles. In 9 games in 2015 for Texas A & M, he fumbled 3 times and lost 1. In 14 games in 2018 for Oklahoma, he fumbled 3 times and lost 2.
Link - ( New Window )
Great play. It illustrates two of his attributes - throwing the deep ball accurately and being able to throw on the run.
sober297 : 10:06 am : link : reply
demand he fit into a taller man's offense, or design an offense around him, ala Russell Wilson.
The Seahawks didn't design an offense around Wilson. And keep in mind, there is a vast difference between Wilson and Murray. One is a scrambling QB, the other is a running QB.
Look at Lamar Jackson. He won a Heisman Trophy. Everyone marveled at how his has a great arm and can make all the throws. What happened? He was reduced his rookie season to being a running QB, who very much struggled to make throws. You don't think there's a highlight reel out there that shows Jackson making the same type of plays? And Jackson is 6'3" and 220 pounds.
What Jackson will have to prove is that he can be a NFL-caliber thrower of the ball. Murray will too. Successful mobile QB's use the mobility to buy time to complete passes or they situationally run when it is available. Running QB's either go off of designed running plays or they make a quick read and if it isn't open, they take off.
It is much easier to defend a running QB in the NFL. They will have a shitload of highlights from college though.
I wouldn't trust Murray lasting more than a season or two getting hit by 300 pound linemen.
2. He played in the Big 12, where they are all allergic to good defense.
Not his fault obviously. And he has great speed and elusiveness with his feet. And he throws a nice long ball.
But I want to see film of him doing it under severe pressure from 6'5" men to WR who are closely covered.
QB injuries normally occur in the pocket more times than on the run. Most times the QB slides, dives, runs OOB ....
And I don't mean purely pocket passer, I just mean that he'd play more like Wilson then RG3 (someone who can stand in the pocket and read a defense vs. someone who couldn't).
Theres going to be many layers to scouting Murray, it will definitely be interesting.
Not his fault obviously. And he has great speed and elusiveness with his feet. And he throws a nice long ball.
But I want to see film of him doing it under severe pressure from 6'5" men to WR who are closely covered.
1- i posted a highlight above of that
2- hasnt the rationale for Eli Mannings struggles been that he is under so much pressure no one can do anything and/or no one is open?
I'm pretty high on Murray myself, but in what world is he more athletic than Michael Vick?
This one. 2 professional leagues are fighting for this kid. He just won the Heisman in the sport he wasnt signed to a pro deal
I think you are confusing "skill" and athleticism. Murray's ability to play two sports shows incredible skill (e.g. hand-eye coordination, timing, etc.)
Athleticism is purely about physical attributes such as speed, agility, strength and explosiveness. Michael Vick in his prime is hands down the better athlete of the two. A comparison of their numbers after Murray goes through the combine should make this clear.
There are a lot of red flags with Murray. Not picking him doesn't mean you're playing it safe as much as it means you may legitimately understand how bad some of those flags are.
I believe the NFL missed out on Flutie’s best years. He came back in his mid 30’s and had some magic moments. Now the rules and style of play are even more conducive to the success of smaller QB’s. I want to see this guy in Giant blue with Saquon, Odell, and Engram. This could be a special offense. This kid will make the existing OL that much better with his ability to run and avoid the rush. This kid is not RG III a runner who can throw; this kid can sling it with the best of them, and run like no other QB since Vick. Please NYG draft Kyler Murray if he is there at pick six.
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I'm pretty high on Murray myself, but in what world is he more athletic than Michael Vick?
This one. 2 professional leagues are fighting for this kid. He just won the Heisman in the sport he wasnt signed to a pro deal
I think you are confusing "skill" and athleticism. Murray's ability to play two sports shows incredible skill (e.g. hand-eye coordination, timing, etc.)
Athleticism is purely about physical attributes such as speed, agility, strength and explosiveness. Michael Vick in his prime is hands down the better athlete of the two. A comparison of their numbers after Murray goes through the combine should make this clear.
Does it even matter? Murray is an incredible athlete and unquestionably a top 2 or 3 athlete at the QB position. GBN listed its top 154 prospects. You know the one with the best anticipated 40 time? Kyler Murray.
And then you mistake that athleticism for someone who runs. In the Bama game, he used it to escape pressure and threw a 55 yard rope for a TD. You say he’s athletic, so you call him Lamar Jackson. Except Jackson completed 58% of his passes in college; Murray completed 70% of his.
I’ve said this before: try running the “Double Eagle” D the Chargers used to shut down Jackson. If a team did that, OBJ would break the single game receiving record.
For people who say he can’t read Ds; that’s similarly nonsense. And you don’t need to listen to me. Listen to McShay on the Rich Eisen show, where he calls Murray advanced at doing so.
I’m tired of people calling someone flawed and saying we shouldn’t draft them. Every prospect is flawed; everyone has something to work on. The question is whether the prospect has a fatal flaw. Murray does not.
Flutie additionally says the implementation of unfold offenses all through the NFL will assist Murray discover passing lanes … and says it should not be exhausting for him to copy the success he had at Oklahoma.
“He can throw from all kinds of angles. We see that with [Patrick] Mahomes and you’ll have the same thing with Kyler Murray.”
Agree with this.
The game is changing, and if the Giants don't adapt they're going to keep floundering.
The rules are there to protect QB's in the pocket. Not running QB's. And the style of play is actually more benefical to pocket passers or scrambling QB's who buy time to throw because WR's will either get open or draw a penalty.
The style of play is not more friendly for any size QB who runs. Where they used to have plodding LB's and fat DL's chasing them, they not have quick 250-300 pounders chasing them, many who aren't that much slower. Murray will basically be smaller than almost every defensive player out there
Which 5'10" rookie are you talking about?
Mayfield was 6'+.
The style of play in todays game rewards teams that can chuck it. You can’t get away with defensive style of play like Mel Blount back in the day. Mobile QB’s who can sling it and fast paced offenses that limit substitutions have a huge advantage in today’s game. You may have lighter and faster DT’s but if you can’t sub them out they will get gassed and frustrated chasing the likes of Murray, Saquon, OBJ, and Engram. Agree to disagree, you can make a reasonable argument on both sides but I am all in on Murray
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Now the rules and style of play are even more conducive to the success of smaller QB’s
The rules are there to protect QB's in the pocket. Not running QB's. And the style of play is actually more benefical to pocket passers or scrambling QB's who buy time to throw because WR's will either get open or draw a penalty.
The style of play is not more friendly for any size QB who runs. Where they used to have plodding LB's and fat DL's chasing them, they not have quick 250-300 pounders chasing them, many who aren't that much slower. Murray will basically be smaller than almost every defensive player out there
If you look of what Nagy has Trubisky doing you absolutely can protect the QB when he runs. He rarely takes hits in the running game. He is constantly sliding before contact. I've seen him slide multiple times on 3rd down before the sticks when he probably could have fought for the 3rd down. Now he actually hurt his shoulder sliding, but that seems like kind of a fluky thing.
Does it even matter? Murray is an incredible athlete and unquestionably a top 2 or 3 athlete at the QB position. GBN listed its top 154 prospects. You know the one with the best anticipated 40 time? Kyler Murray.
And then you mistake that athleticism for someone who runs. In the Bama game, he used it to escape pressure and threw a 55 yard rope for a TD. You say he’s athletic, so you call him Lamar Jackson. Except Jackson completed 58% of his passes in college; Murray completed 70% of his.
I’ve said this before: try running the “Double Eagle” D the Chargers used to shut down Jackson. If a team did that, OBJ would break the single game receiving record.
For people who say he can’t read Ds; that’s similarly nonsense. And you don’t need to listen to me. Listen to McShay on the Rich Eisen show, where he calls Murray advanced at doing so.
I’m tired of people calling someone flawed and saying we shouldn’t draft them. Every prospect is flawed; everyone has something to work on. The question is whether the prospect has a fatal flaw. Murray does not.
I haven't seen many people around here crushing Murray about his athleticism, arm, intellect, movement, etc. From what I can tell, me included, he has been applauded for his skill sets.
But to discount his size - and he's small - as if it's insignificant is poor judgment. It's a major, major issue. And I think it makes him the most unusual first round prospect we've ever seen.
Here are their numbers compared at Oklahoma:
Mayfield (2017)
Passing: 285/404, 4627, 11.5 Y/A, 43/6
Rushing: 97/311/5
Murray (2018)
Passing: 260/377, 4361, 11.6 Y/A, 42/7
Rushing: 140/1001/12
I understand concerns over his size, but Murray was an elite passer in college last year. The equal at least of Haskins, Tua, and Lawrence. And head to head in the semifinal I thought he was a better passer than Tua.
Murray is not a running QB. He's a top shelf passer.
Fumbling machine?
He's never fumbled in college.
Being small isn't fatal in itself. Being slight isn't. Having small hands isn't.
Put them all together and you have a very risky pick. Murray might actually have 3 fatal flaws.
I will say it one more time - Murray will be the smallest, lightest QB to play the game in recent time
He's either having designed runs or he's making a quick read and taking off. He's not scrambling very often to buy time, he's either throwing it or taking off.
Mayfield is a scrambler.
If he has the discipline to be a scrambler, that's fine, but we rarely see guys show that restraint.
If I had to go with Murray at 6 or trade up to get Tua next year, I’d rather just go with Murray and keep my assets. If it doesn’t work out, we can at least react to it a year sooner.
I know jobs are on the line and it doesn’t work that way, but I think he’s be electric with Barkley and Beckham, especially if we keep adding to the OL.
He's either having designed runs or he's making a quick read and taking off. He's not scrambling very often to buy time, he's either throwing it or taking off.
Mayfield is a scrambler.
If he has the discipline to be a scrambler, that's fine, but we rarely see guys show that restraint.
But isn't that going to be on his coaches to design an offense that incorporates his ability to extend plays? Think about the long TD throw he had against Alabama...that play was fucking ridiculous, and a result of Murray keeping his eyes downfield while creating time with his legs.
I think this guy is a better player than Haskins. I understand the concern over his size, but he's a hell of a player.
It's not just about attempting to be a two sport athlete, which an NFL QB can NOT attempt, it's also the fear that he wakes up one day and says my life would be easier in center field.
I would need assurances that it's football all the way.
While his size is an issue, he is an exciting player, and I do wonder if there is a place for him in the evolving NFL. I'm not, nor have I ever been a running QB guy, but he can throw the ball. It is exciting just to be talking about this after many said we'd be out of QB options and destined for hell after passing last year.