I know it's early and he is small...but Kylar Murray

risk as long as you're not trading future assets to move up. If it looks like his size is going to be a major issue then you can recover faster than if you took a guy like lets say Jameis Winston who flashes greatness but more often looks like he stinks. Those are the ones that get you, the ones you're constantly trying to develop where it just doesn't wind up happening.

This is a good article from September on how Murray avoids taking big hits. Statistically at his size he's far more likely to get hurt. However, you look at a guy like Eli Manning who has the requisite height but isn't exactly a physical specimen and even at age 37 he didn't get banged up at all. He's taken some hits over the years that you'd certainly think would injure a guy in his physical shape. Some guys just know how to avoid it better than others.
Link - ( New Window )

And in fact was a criticism of Mayfield.

I'm not even a Murray guy. I know almost nothing about him.

But there was a lot of 'size' talk as a means of dismissing legitimacy of quarterbacks last year, as there is every year.

Though for the record, it would be hard for me to think a guy that's 5'9-5'10 could make it at that position unless he had some kind of elite skill.

He is an excellent passer who is also an electric runner. Think Russell Wilson with a jetpack and that is what you get with Kyler Murray. With his size/frame durability is a legitimate concern but well worth the risk of getting a great dynamic player. From what I have seen he is a gamer, along witn his talent he is a great competitor. The risk is worth tne reward. I just don’t see the Giants going for it, too conservative Hope they prove me wrong.

In comment 14266694 Chris684 said:

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if not more than the size. It's not just about attempting to be a two sport athlete, which an NFL QB can NOT attempt, it's also the fear that he wakes up one day and says my life would be easier in center field. I would need assurances that it's football all the way. While his size is an issue, he is an exciting player, and I do wonder if there is a place for him in the evolving NFL. I'm not, nor have I ever been a running QB guy, but he can throw the ball. It is exciting just to be talking about this after many said we'd be out of QB options and destined for hell after passing last year.

Unless Murray is assured by Beane and the A's that he won't be in the minors for more than a month, Murray isn't going back to baseball. He loves the big stage. Loves big crowds. He loves football, and likes that the NFL doesn't have a minor league system.

Someone linked to a very interesting article the other day that contains interviews with Murray's former high school and college teammates, and high school coaches. And it was clear that doing a minor league circuit grind was something Murray had zero interest in. The thought of playing baseball in small cities in front of 500 people was/is a real turnoff.

Wilson was not a run oriented guy, even in college, especially with Wisconsin:

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Think Russell Wilson with a jetpack and that is what you get with Kyler Murray.

NC State ran the option occasionally, but Wilson was always a scrambling QB. One of the question marks regarding Wilson when he transferred was if he could play in a more pro style offense and he could. Had 33 TD's with 4INT's and his completion % was above 70% while never being above 60% at NC State. He pretty much gave the NFL a glimpse that he wasn't a running QB as he had half the normal attempts he had rushing at NCST.

Murray is a dynamic player, and even then. he's giving up more than a inch and 30 pounds to Wilson.

He threw 370 times and ran 140. Do we know how many of those 140 runs were called runs by Riley?

It's an oddly underrated aspect of his game. He's built like a runningback IMO.

threw 404 times and ran it 97 times in 2017. He ran it 141 times in 2015 in his first year as a starter at Oklahoma with Riley as OC.

nearly identical passings stats between them when comparing their final seasons which is quite illustrative since they both played at OK.

But Murray rushed for >700 yards and 7 TDs more despite only 3 more rushes per game.

And Murray was a far more accomplished passer than Lamar Jackson in college. They're not remotely similar players.

had a season with 527 pass attempts

In comment 14266759 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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had a season with 527 pass attempts

and had 143 rush attempts that same year.

YPC of 3.0:)

In comment 14266767 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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YPC of 3.0:)

yeah, I imagine a bunch of those are actually sacks right? Isn't that how college counts those?

In comment 14266759 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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had a season with 527 pass attempts

And had 378 or fewer his 3 other seasons. Also finished with a college comp% = 60.9% vs Murray's 67.4%.

In comment 14266743 Go Terps said:

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He threw 370 times and ran 140. Do we know how many of those 140 runs were called runs by Riley?

Just a note, but sacks in college are considered rushing attempts, so that should put it into perspective that he ran fewer times than you think he did. It’s also amazing that he ran for 1000 yards on 140 attempts. He basically ran for 1100 yards on 120 attempts, assuming he was sacked 20 times for a loss of 100 yards.

By the way, Cutcliffe called running plays for Daniel Jones. A lot of them, actually. How many people here consider him a running QB?

In comment 14266759 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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had a season with 527 pass attempts

And the Seahawks' offense got worse the more they threw the ball. They switched it back this year and got better.

But I don't see Wilson and Murray as similar players. Murray is much more explosive.

In comment 14266787 Go Terps said:

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In comment 14266759 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: had a season with 527 pass attempts And the Seahawks' offense got worse the more they threw the ball. They switched it back this year and got better. But I don't see Wilson and Murray as similar players. Murray is much more explosive.

He was talking about in college.

Thanks...I'd forgotten about the sacks/rushes thing in college.

Interesting about Jones at Duke. In 2016 and 2017 he has more rushes than Murray did last year. Again, have to correct for sacks.

And regarding comps to Lamar Jackson. Jackson was a different type of player in college. He ran the ball quite a bit more than Murray did. 260 & 232 times his last two years. I'm a huge Jackson fan, but he can fairly be called a running QB. I don't think that applies to Murray.

for sure, but it looks like Wilson's longest rush was 28 yards vs. UNLV.

Fun fact - he had 3 receptions while at Wisconsin

In comment 14266789 YAJ2112 said:

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In comment 14266787 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 14266759 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: had a season with 527 pass attempts And the Seahawks' offense got worse the more they threw the ball. They switched it back this year and got better. But I don't see Wilson and Murray as similar players. Murray is much more explosive. He was talking about in college.

Sorry, my mistake.

In comment 14266746 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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It's an oddly underrated aspect of his game. He's built like a runningback IMO.

Mayfield too, they're both thickly built guys. I'm not sure I see that with Murray, he's built like slot back. Does he have the frame to add 15-20 lbs? That's something they'll have to look at.

Even if you decide he's an injury risk and likely to miss some games, I don't think that should stop a team from drafting him early. There are plenty of QBs out there that are capable of holding down the fort for a handful of games - Foles and Keenum have turned that experience into big contracts. However, it's incredibly difficult to find QBs that can be true difference makers and elevate the team around them. If you decide Murray can be one of those guys, you take him because the upside far outweighs the risk.

He’s most often been compared to Lamar Jackson and Vick. But we’ve already discussed Jackson, and he is much more runner than passer right now. Vick, similarly, had his own passing issues, as he had only one season in which he started more than 10 games and completed over 60% of his passes. The guy was not accurate in college or the pros.

It would be shocking to me if Murray did not succeed as a passer. Certainly, there is nothing to suggest that he can’t sling it - and do so accurately - at the next level. And that is what differentiates him from Vick and Jackson.

People complain about his slight build and argue that it puts him at risk of injury. But I don’t think that is true. Russell Wilson and Brees are the smallest QBs in the NFL, and they have been healthy with out issue (Brees got hurt early, but that was unrelated to height or build). Meanwhile some of the bigger QBs - Luck, Newton, Big Ben, Wentz - have missed significant time due to injury.

With the changing NFL, I don’t believe height is a predictor I’d anything. I believe it’s even less of a concern if he measures in at the height At which OU listed him.

Arizona will draft him number one.

are short, not slight.

In comment 14266867 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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are short, not slight.

As was pointed out to you in the other thread, build is not a predictor of injury. Slight or not

Last year I was repeatedly assured that slight Josh Rosen would be injured by the wind let aline an NFL player and he did not get injured yet the appropriately built Darnold did as did the "monster" Josh Allen, who i pointed out had a ling injury history already

You would think a fanbase that saw slender Eli become an "iron man" but not "Big Ben" would know this

Do you try to gain 10-15 pounds going into the Combine?

If Eli played the same style as Ben, do you think he would stay healthy?

Furthermore, basing a rookie year of staying healthy or being hurt isn't indicative of anything.

You can continue to reason away that being slight AND short isn't an issue.

I assure those who will make the selection or will pass will know it is an issue

to my stomach when I read and agree with everything Fat-Mara in Charlotte says.

In comment 14266194 rasbutant said:

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Its more telling then his "highlight" videos. Not saying he isn't good, in fact I'm very impressed with him and think he will be drafted before Haskins. Just saying this is a better gauge of what you will get in the NFL. Link - ( New Window )

Based on the video, that was a solid performance.

In comment 14266077 Ira said:

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weight to Julian Edelman.

and boy do he take a beating living over the middle.

In comment 14266686 UConn4523 said:

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and I like Tua (though he seems just as risky considering he’s been battling constant injuries). If I had to go with Murray at 6 or trade up to get Tua next year, I’d rather just go with Murray and keep my assets. If it doesn’t work out, we can at least react to it a year sooner. I know jobs are on the line and it doesn’t work that way, but I think he’s be electric with Barkley and Beckham, especially if we keep adding to the OL.

+1. This post makes a ton of sense.

or completion %, it's his Wonderlic score.

Andrew Perloff
Andrew Perloff
@andrewperloff
"He’s the best athlete on the field and the smartest player on the field at the same time." - Oklahoma coach Lincoln Riley on Kyler Murray (
@dpshow
)
9:27 AM · Dec 3, 2018 · Twitter Web Client

I think his Wonderlic will be just fine

In comment 14267321 BigBlueCane said:

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or completion %, it's his Wonderlic score.

You’re kidding, right?

This isn't a Lamar Jackson situation.

How so?
Link - ( New Window )

on related topic
Link - ( New Window )

I was thinking about it and I have to say I already think this kid has a lot of guts...

He was considered a top prospect in the 2015 MLB draft. He could have gone off and played baseball immediately out of high school and had a nice payday. Instead, he opts to go to college and play football.

Then, in 2018, he was selected with the #9 overall pick in the MLB draft and signed a $4.4M contract with the A's. He still decides he is willing to risk that by going to play a full season of D1 college football in the Big 12. So, he clearly loves the game of football! He barely played at all before the 2018 season and once he was drafted by an MLB team he could have just walked away from football and been a millionaire. Instead he played football just for the love of the game, and he went and won a Heisman trophy.

My point is this: If this kid already went out and played a full season of D1 football FOR FREE at the risk of getting injured and losing his baseball career (running around "undersized" and at risk of injuring his "slight frame"), why the hell would he now pass up MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in guaranteed money to play the sport he loves on the biggest stage of all? A first round pick, no less, and not to mention he plays the position he plays is far and away the most lucrative of all positions in the NFL.

I don't see this kid passing up on the sport he loves NOW,at this point, when he could make tons of money doing it, after he ALREADY has done it for free at the risk of losing his baseball $ and career. I don't buy the idea that he will be convinced that he's all of a sudden going to get injured (even though he's never been injured playing football) just because NFL defenders are so big and fast and scary. It's not about what anyone else says, it's about what he feels he's capable of doing, and from everything this kid has done I don't see him backing down now just to make the more conservative "business decision".

He is not slight he is actually fairly muscular. I have seen people calling him 5'9 here and I don't think he is that short.

I am not sure what I think on how he will translate to the NFL, but he is not just a great runner, he throws a GREAT long ball. I would be both terrified and ecstatic at drafting him... lol

In comment 14267822 Johnny5 said:

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He is not slight he is actually fairly muscular. I have seen people calling him 5'9 here and I don't think he is that short.

The Combine will tell all, but even Oklahoma's team website, and team websites are always known to be generous, only lists him at 5'10.

In comment 14267844 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 14267822 Johnny5 said: Quote: He is not slight he is actually fairly muscular. I have seen people calling him 5'9 here and I don't think he is that short. The Combine will tell all, but even Oklahoma's team website, and team websites are always known to be generous, only lists him at 5'10.

For sure, but just looking at him next to other players on his team I am thinking 5'10 seems likely correct. Anyway don't they list him at 5'11? He doesn't look much shorter to me than Russell Wilson or even Drew Brees. Wilson is definitely beefier though, especially in the legs.

Not sure what I think about drafting him though. Like I said I can totally see getting excited about drafting him.. but yeah his size does have to give you concern.

In comment 14267906 Johnny5 said:

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In comment 14267844 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 14267822 Johnny5 said: Quote: He is not slight he is actually fairly muscular. I have seen people calling him 5'9 here and I don't think he is that short. The Combine will tell all, but even Oklahoma's team website, and team websites are always known to be generous, only lists him at 5'10. For sure, but just looking at him next to other players on his team I am thinking 5'10 seems likely correct. Anyway don't they list him at 5'11? He doesn't look much shorter to me than Russell Wilson or even Drew Brees. Wilson is definitely beefier though, especially in the legs. Not sure what I think about drafting him though. Like I said I can totally see getting excited about drafting him.. but yeah his size does have to give you concern.

They list him at 5'11", yes. Baker Mayfield is 6'1" and seeing them stand next to each other I don't see a huge height difference. There is no way Baker is 4 inches taller than Murray, NO WAY. My prediction is Murray will measure at 5'10" and change, no shorter than 5'10" even, though.

but can you imagine what he could do for Saquon?

That RPO would just be insane. Saquon would rush for 2000 yards.

No. Remember RG III. In a game where very little fast guys meet very big fast guys, the big guys win.

Murray and NO to Haskins. Murray could help us with out lousy protection and provide time to feed ball to our playmakers.

I hope he drops like some are predicting and we can move up to 32 to snag him with our 2 and a future 3.

Coming out of the first with Devin White and Kylar Murray would be amazing.

will likely be gone top 10. The Giants would be too ascared to pick him.

In comment 14269230 adamg said:

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I hope he drops like some are predicting and we can move up to 32 to snag him with our 2 and a future 3. Coming out of the first with Devin White and Kylar Murray would be amazing.

As much as I would love that, we need an OL with 1 of the first 2 picks. Of course maybe FA we get a player or 2 and that thinking changes. I do think the Giants have to come away with either Haskins or Murray in this draft.

In comment 14269269 mrvax said:

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will likely be gone top 10. The Giants would be too ascared to pick him.

To be honest. I wouldn't mind going Murray at 6 and RT in the second. I think that would turn this team around.