NFT: Yank talk 1-19 Rumor mill in full effect

It would take much, much more than Andujar, Gray and a couple of mid tier prospects. I honestly don�t see any way the Rockies deal Arenado. He�s the face of their franchise. But IF they did, they could get a huge return. Much better than the one you suggested

but is he really that much better to give up all that instead of just signing Machado and still having all those players?

In comment 14268193 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

It would take much, much more than Andujar, Gray and a couple of mid tier prospects. I honestly don�t see any way the Rockies deal Arenado. He�s the face of their franchise. But IF they did, they could get a huge return. Much better than the one you suggested

should be enough. Remember he is a free agent after 2019 so he will get a deal similar to what the dodgers paid for machado.

In comment 14268193 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

It would take much, much more than Andujar, Gray and a couple of mid tier prospects. I honestly don�t see any way the Rockies deal Arenado. He�s the face of their franchise. But IF they did, they could get a huge return. Much better than the one you suggested

You're right,he would command a much better return but only if the Rockies gave the team looking to trade for him a window to negotiate a long term contract,as he can be an FA at the end of the year. The OP is referring to Andy Martino's post on Twitter where he refers to the Yankees wanting Arenado more than Machado & Martino saying he has numerous sources that say talks have taken place.This would only take place if the Rockies believe there is no way he will resign with them because,as you have mentioned,he is the face of their franchise!Q

-

In comment 14268196 mattyblue said:

Quote:

but is he really that much better to give up all that instead of just signing Machado and still having all those players?

Its so hard to truly gauge the Coors Field guys. That said, Arenado�s defense is probably the best in the game, but Machado�s (3B) defense is a close second. Both are the best in the world defensively at third. I�m sure someone will post Arenado�s home road splits and that will diverge on its own path. One difference I can see making a real difference between these two players is that Machado might be viewed as a nonchalant guy while Arenado is a vocal aggressive type of on field and clubhouse leader. Worth the prospects to get Arenado vs cash to get Machado? Possibly. I�d like to see what Manny could do in Coors Field and if their career locations has been switched how that would impact this discussion

In comment 14268214 Dave in PA said:

Quote:

In comment 14268196 mattyblue said: Quote: but is he really that much better to give up all that instead of just signing Machado and still having all those players? Its so hard to truly gauge the Coors Field guys. That said, Arenado�s defense is probably the best in the game, but Machado�s (3B) defense is a close second. Both are the best in the world defensively at third. I�m sure someone will post Arenado�s home road splits and that will diverge on its own path. One difference I can see making a real difference between these two players is that Machado might be viewed as a nonchalant guy while Arenado is a vocal aggressive type of on field and clubhouse leader. Worth the prospects to get Arenado vs cash to get Machado? Possibly. I�d like to see what Manny could do in Coors Field and if their career locations has been switched how that would impact this discussion

Camden Yards is also a hitters paradise. Let�s not act like Machado has been stuck playing at a disadvantage

So you�re still going to have to pony up megabucks to keep him. He may well be a better player than Machado, I don�t see him enough to know, but it would have to be a significant difference to be worth cashing in the assets it would take for what I assume is no more than a marginal difference. Just sign Machado if you need a 3b, and you get to keep Andujar+.

front office PR spin machine in full effect to placate fans who waited and wanted Harper or Machado and they will come out of it this with neither. I don't see Colorado trading him. Though the Yankees appear to be the New York Rockies based on this offseason.

Here is Arenado's splits


and here's Aaron Judge


and for the sake of completeness, here are Machado's

signing this off season has required the release of a player on the current 40 man roster. And each release has resulted in a claim from another team.

The current 40 man roster is chock full of talent to the point where I hope we don't see that again this off season.

My guess (and hope) is that a trade of Gray-which could include other(s) on the 40 man roster, happens prior to the Yankees officially announce the Adam Ottavino signing.

to play 1B. A high effort player unlike Machado.

Looking back, I would have been interested in the ask for Goldschmidt. Very strong defensive 1B and a professional hitter. The Cards didn�t seem to give up a whole lot there.

In comment 14268224 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

front office PR spin machine in full effect to placate fans who waited and wanted Harper or Machado and they will come out of it this with neither. I don't see Colorado trading him. Though the Yankees appear to be the New York Rockies based on this offseason.

This is such nonsense.

I get so tired of the entitled Yankee fans who make it sound like they are OWED something by the Yanks. Grow up. Here's a big hint- they don't care one iota who entitled Yankee fans think- and there is no PR strategy here.

In fact, I strongly suspect that the story is really coming from Arenado's camp. The Rockies "only" offered $24M while he asked for $30M in arbitration. The only pressure Arenado has now is to show that some other team is pushing to get him- especially one that has the finances to sign him in FA. That forces the Rockies to "play nice" or he can make it clear he will walk at the end of the season.

In comment 14268224 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

front office PR spin machine in full effect to placate fans who waited and wanted Harper or Machado and they will come out of it this with neither. I don't see Colorado trading him. Though the Yankees appear to be the New York Rockies based on this offseason.

Do you really believe that? There�s a ton of fans that don�t want Machado so who exactly means more to the fan base, those that want him or those that don�t?

This whole PR stuff is weird, they want to field a great team without committing to players too long term. It�s smart.

Sounds like a very good idea. Hope it happens, however unlikely it seems to be at the moment.

Jon Heyman
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Verified account

@JonHeyman
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Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend.

He would thrive in pitcher friendly SF though.

that much for Arenado. True he is a star, but that is a lot for a guy that your only guaranteed to have one year, and then have to outbid the rest of MLB to keep. I'd package Andujar or Frazier but not both.

In comment 14268196 mattyblue said:

Quote:

but is he really that much better to give up all that instead of just signing Machado and still having all those players?

Maybe, but Rockies players hitting stats are generally skewed because of where they play their home games.

In comment 14268264 Jints in Carolina said:

Quote:

Jon Heyman ‏ Verified account @JonHeyman Following Following @JonHeyman More Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend.

That's a pretty good haul for Sonny

In comment 14268263 Percy said:

Quote:

Sounds like a very good idea. Hope it happens, however unlikely it seems to be at the moment.

If the yanks decided to spend big at 3B, I would rather have Machado- younger, better AL East performance, only costs $$ as opposed to the prospect haul that Colorado would require.

In comment 14268283 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 14268264 Jints in Carolina said: Quote: Jon Heyman ‏ Verified account @JonHeyman Following Following @JonHeyman More Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend. That's a pretty good haul for Sonny

Keep in mind that IF the Yanks get that pick from the Reds, it will either be the #36 or #37 overall pick in the draft- comes after the first round.

While it doesn't sound impressive at first, realize that the pick comes with a $2M slot value of its own. In other words, just getting that one pick would shift the Yanks draft pool from somewhere around $6.5M to around $8.5M. That is a HUGE difference.

It would allow the Yanks to cut a deal with a guy with a huge price tag who falls in the draft- the kind of player you usually have to have a top 10 pick to get.

The other option would be to grab a couple guys who want a few hundred thousand over slot and pick a college SR power arm who will sign cheap with one of the top 3 picks. The Yanks have had huge success with those profile picks.

The pick alone would be a great get for Gray- getting a legit prospect too would basically mean that they are maxing out the return.

In comment 14268285 rich in DC said:

Quote:

In comment 14268263 Percy said: Quote: Sounds like a very good idea. Hope it happens, however unlikely it seems to be at the moment. If the yanks decided to spend big at 3B, I would rather have Machado- younger, better AL East performance, only costs $$ as opposed to the prospect haul that Colorado would require.

Plus a year from now they would have to spend big to keep Arenado. I'd sign Manny, and save the prospects.

In comment 14268248 rich in DC said:

Quote:

In comment 14268224 Matt in SGS said: Quote: front office PR spin machine in full effect to placate fans who waited and wanted Harper or Machado and they will come out of it this with neither. I don't see Colorado trading him. Though the Yankees appear to be the New York Rockies based on this offseason. This is such nonsense. I get so tired of the entitled Yankee fans who make it sound like they are OWED something by the Yanks. Grow up. Here's a big hint- they don't care one iota who entitled Yankee fans think- and there is no PR strategy here. In fact, I strongly suspect that the story is really coming from Arenado's camp. The Rockies "only" offered $24M while he asked for $30M in arbitration. The only pressure Arenado has now is to show that some other team is pushing to get him- especially one that has the finances to sign him in FA. That forces the Rockies to "play nice" or he can make it clear he will walk at the end of the season.

Rich, just stop. Your act is tired now. I've been a Yankee fan since the 1980s, I was there for the Dallas Green and Stump Merrill mess. I rooted for Kevin Maas thinking he was going to be the next great thing.
I watched Andy Hawkins throw a no-hitter and lose.

Are there entitled Yankees fans? Yes. Just look at the NYDN cover the other day with the Snore 4. I said in a post the other day that Hal came back with a budget that was over the cap but not the highest threshhold. Cashman was given a choice and decided not to tie up the cap all in Machado or Harper, but strengthen depth at pitching. I think he made smart moves, outside of Gardner and CC, who I don't agree with the amount of $$ they gave them. But if you don't think the Yankees front office put out signals they were getting out from the luxury tax at the same time as Harper and Machado being free agents, somewhat similar to NBA teams clearing space when LeBron was a free agent, you are kidding yourself.

But I'm not going to not watch the Yankees because they didn't get Machado or Harper. I'm not burning my jerseys. That stuff is 100% crap, I agree.

In comment 14268251 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 14268224 Matt in SGS said: Quote: front office PR spin machine in full effect to placate fans who waited and wanted Harper or Machado and they will come out of it this with neither. I don't see Colorado trading him. Though the Yankees appear to be the New York Rockies based on this offseason. Do you really believe that? There�s a ton of fans that don�t want Machado so who exactly means more to the fan base, those that want him or those that don�t? This whole PR stuff is weird, they want to field a great team without committing to players too long term. It�s smart.

I'd agree, except this is a front office who gave Ellsbury a dumb ass deal because of PR in losing Cano. Same guys. I thought Ellsbury was a bad move the second I heard about it. PR matters to the Yankees and they read the back pages. Again, the Hal is cheap stuff isn't really true. He's not George. George 100000% would have signed Harper or Machado. Anyone who would doubt that knows nothing of how George operated. However, Hal has gone over the luxury tax threshhold, though the Gray deal will bring him closer. He gave a bigger budget for Cashman to use and Cashman used it to fill in on pitching and holding the fort for Didi. As I said in the other post, I didn't like the Gardner deal, but I think Gardner is done. And CC also was a lot of money to throw at a 5th/6th starter. The rest of the moves the Yankees made all make sense. If the Yankees decided to just bring in Tulo on the major league minimum and make no other moves, then everyone should get the pitchforks out for Hal and Cashman. The fans wanted 2009 again and didn't get it. Let's see if it was enough to beat Boston this year.

In comment 14268283 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 14268264 Jints in Carolina said: Quote: Jon Heyman � Verified account @JonHeyman Following Following @JonHeyman More Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend. That's a pretty good haul for Sonny

Good haul?? I disagree. Shed was drafted in 2013 and he is still in AA. That's 5 years in the minors. His numbers were
PNS (AA) .261 avg, 12 hrs 75 runs and 56 rbi's

Stephenson was drafted in 2015 and is still in A+ ball. Really?? He batted .250 with 11 hrs 60 runs and 59 rbi's

The Reds know that they are fleecing us.

The only times the Yankees won were when he was not the GM. If the Yankees payroll is 220 million this year it's foolish to call Hal cheap. That doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake to pass on Harper and Manny. It means they decided to spread the money around on more players and for shorter contracts than to commit to one guy long term. In the case of two 26 year old all stars or more that may be a mistake.

In comment 14268331 superspynyg said:

Quote:

In comment 14268283 Strahan91 said: Quote: In comment 14268264 Jints in Carolina said: Quote: Jon Heyman � Verified account @JonHeyman Following Following @JonHeyman More Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend. That's a pretty good haul for Sonny Good haul?? I disagree. Shed was drafted in 2013 and he is still in AA. That's 5 years in the minors. His numbers were PNS (AA) .261 avg, 12 hrs 75 runs and 56 rbi's Stephenson was drafted in 2015 and is still in A+ ball. Really?? He batted .250 with 11 hrs 60 runs and 59 rbi's The Reds know that they are fleecing us.

Whatever I'd take a bucket of balls for gray at this point.

In comment 14268332 arniefez said:

Quote:

The only times the Yankees won were when he was not the GM. If the Yankees payroll is 220 million this year it's foolish to call Hal cheap. That doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake to pass on Harper and Manny. It means they decided to spread the money around on more players and for shorter contracts than to commit to one guy long term. In the case of two 26 year old all stars or more that may be a mistake.

Arnie, very fair and I agree. The best thing to happen to the Yankees was Howie Spira and Stick Michael. But once George was stopped from stripping the farm system, he used his financial advantage to supplement big ticket players and made the Yankees into the dynasty they became.

as it also turns the screw on Machado, it they are in fact in on him. Just reminding him they have other options

In comment 14268331 superspynyg said:

Quote:

In comment 14268283 Strahan91 said: Quote: In comment 14268264 Jints in Carolina said: Quote: Jon Heyman � Verified account @JonHeyman Following Following @JonHeyman More Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend. That's a pretty good haul for Sonny Good haul?? I disagree. Shed was drafted in 2013 and he is still in AA. That's 5 years in the minors. His numbers were PNS (AA) .261 avg, 12 hrs 75 runs and 56 rbi's Stephenson was drafted in 2015 and is still in A+ ball. Really?? He batted .250 with 11 hrs 60 runs and 59 rbi's The Reds know that they are fleecing us.

Everyone who knows the Reds minor league system believes differently. This guy covers it for a living: Doug Gray
‏

@dougdirt24
1h1 hour ago
More Doug Gray Retweeted Jon Heyman
Just going to go on the record again:

I wouldn't trade one of those guys on their own for Sonny Gray, much less both of them AND a draft pick.

That is a wild overpay. The guy had a 4.90 ERA last year with a high walk rate and has 1 year left.

Doug Gray
@dougdirt24
29m29 minutes ago
More
Using the Fangraphs valuation tool for prospects, a "50-grade" prospect has a surplus value of $28M. Both Tyler Stephenson and Shed Long are "50-grade" prospects. That's $56M in surplus value for Sonny Gray, who even at $7.5M, would need to be 2000 Pedro to bring that value.

Lance McAlister
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Verified account

@LanceMcAlister
17h17 hours ago
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I'd be more inclined to hand Tyler Mahle to Derek Johnson than hand Shed Long and Tyler Stephenson to Yankees AND pay $7.5M for one year of Sonny Gray.
#Reds

Cincin
‏

@Nati_Sports
54m54 minutes ago
More Cincin Retweeted Jon Heyman
Shed Long AND a draft pick better be pulling something more other than just Sonny Gray.

I can�t see Nick Krall & Dick Williams trading away Tyler Stephenson for one year of Sonny Gray. Tyler is a prospect you include in a deal for an elite player, not a 1 year rental.

And more linked below. They're trading a 1 year Sonny Gray rental, not Severino. The Reds media and fans are very unhappy with the proposed deal.
Link - ( New Window )

#36 pick as part of the deal, that might make them more inclined to sign Harper.

In comment 14268331 superspynyg said:

Quote:

In comment 14268283 Strahan91 said: Quote: In comment 14268264 Jints in Carolina said: Quote: Jon Heyman � Verified account @JonHeyman Following Following @JonHeyman More Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend. That's a pretty good haul for Sonny Good haul?? I disagree. Shed was drafted in 2013 and he is still in AA. That's 5 years in the minors. His numbers were PNS (AA) .261 avg, 12 hrs 75 runs and 56 rbi's Stephenson was drafted in 2015 and is still in A+ ball. Really?? He batted .250 with 11 hrs 60 runs and 59 rbi's The Reds know that they are fleecing us.

NYY aren't getting fleeced here.

In comment 14268351 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

#36 pick as part of the deal, that might make them more inclined to sign Harper.

Interesting point Phil. I still think he's going to Philly because they have the money and they are just waiting to see how much they are bidding against themselves.

In comment 14268207 The_Boss said:

Quote:

-

It will be a Sonny day when it happens, sounds like they
are getting close.

In comment 14268316 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

In comment 14268251 UConn4523 said: Quote: In comment 14268224 Matt in SGS said: Quote: front office PR spin machine in full effect to placate fans who waited and wanted Harper or Machado and they will come out of it this with neither. I don't see Colorado trading him. Though the Yankees appear to be the New York Rockies based on this offseason. Do you really believe that? There�s a ton of fans that don�t want Machado so who exactly means more to the fan base, those that want him or those that don�t? This whole PR stuff is weird, they want to field a great team without committing to players too long term. It�s smart. I'd agree, except this is a front office who gave Ellsbury a dumb ass deal because of PR in losing Cano. Same guys. I thought Ellsbury was a bad move the second I heard about it. PR matters to the Yankees and they read the back pages. Again, the Hal is cheap stuff isn't really true. He's not George. George 100000% would have signed Harper or Machado. Anyone who would doubt that knows nothing of how George operated. However, Hal has gone over the luxury tax threshhold, though the Gray deal will bring him closer. He gave a bigger budget for Cashman to use and Cashman used it to fill in on pitching and holding the fort for Didi. As I said in the other post, I didn't like the Gardner deal, but I think Gardner is done. And CC also was a lot of money to throw at a 5th/6th starter. The rest of the moves the Yankees made all make sense. If the Yankees decided to just bring in Tulo on the major league minimum and make no other moves, then everyone should get the pitchforks out for Hal and Cashman. The fans wanted 2009 again and didn't get it. Let's see if it was enough to beat Boston this year.

I believe in learning from mistakes, which they have clearly shown you over the past 4 or 5 years in retooling this team. No reason to hold Ellsbury against them anymore, it�s done and I�m sure they know how dumb it was.

Also, the fan base IMO is split on Machado so I don�t know what the PR move is, who�s is towards?

In comment 14268362 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 14268316 Matt in SGS said: Quote: In comment 14268251 UConn4523 said: Quote: In comment 14268224 Matt in SGS said: Quote: front office PR spin machine in full effect to placate fans who waited and wanted Harper or Machado and they will come out of it this with neither. I don't see Colorado trading him. Though the Yankees appear to be the New York Rockies based on this offseason. Do you really believe that? There�s a ton of fans that don�t want Machado so who exactly means more to the fan base, those that want him or those that don�t? This whole PR stuff is weird, they want to field a great team without committing to players too long term. It�s smart. I'd agree, except this is a front office who gave Ellsbury a dumb ass deal because of PR in losing Cano. Same guys. I thought Ellsbury was a bad move the second I heard about it. PR matters to the Yankees and they read the back pages. Again, the Hal is cheap stuff isn't really true. He's not George. George 100000% would have signed Harper or Machado. Anyone who would doubt that knows nothing of how George operated. However, Hal has gone over the luxury tax threshhold, though the Gray deal will bring him closer. He gave a bigger budget for Cashman to use and Cashman used it to fill in on pitching and holding the fort for Didi. As I said in the other post, I didn't like the Gardner deal, but I think Gardner is done. And CC also was a lot of money to throw at a 5th/6th starter. The rest of the moves the Yankees made all make sense. If the Yankees decided to just bring in Tulo on the major league minimum and make no other moves, then everyone should get the pitchforks out for Hal and Cashman. The fans wanted 2009 again and didn't get it. Let's see if it was enough to beat Boston this year. I believe in learning from mistakes, which they have clearly shown you over the past 4 or 5 years in retooling this team. No reason to hold Ellsbury against them anymore, it�s done and I�m sure they know how dumb it was. Also, the fan base IMO is split on Machado so I don�t know what the PR move is, who�s is towards?

Fair point. Most of us were screaming to trade Cano when it was clear he was testing free agency and the Yankees were not going to win that year. Ellsbury signing only made it worse. The Miller and Chapman trades showed they learned their lesson. However.... you can't compare Ellsbury to Harper or Machado. Ellsbury was a borderline All Star if (big if) he was healthy. And the Yankees did it to also try to weaken Boston. Harper and Machado are top talents now who are just entering their prime. These are the types of players the Yankees should be in play for. As Arnie said above, Cashman chose a different direction to go or so it would seem.

I�d rather not have Torres be a swing guy, but that seems like the plan unless DJ can play there....and that seems less than ideal.

The 90's Dynasty died when George started buying guys like Musina and Giambi. Stick & Buck built it and George tore it down. The late 70's team was built brilliantly by Gabe Paul and George destroyed that too. At least Goose and Reggie paid off in the short term.

In comment 14268390 arniefez said:

Quote:

The 90's Dynasty died when George started buying guys like Musina and Giambi. Stick & Buck built it and George tore it down. The late 70's team was built brilliantly by Gabe Paul and George destroyed that too. At least Goose and Reggie paid off in the short term.

The results certainly tell this story but I think there's more to the story. They should've won in 2001 and 2003 they were upset by a team that got hot at the right time and we all know what happened in 2004. Sometimes things don't go your way and there's luck involved in most WS runs. In 2005 the Yankees payroll was $209M, average was $65M in baseball and the next highest was $126M. Other teams started spending too which negated the Yankees advantage, otherwise we may have seen a championship or two from 2005-2009.

In comment 14268331 superspynyg said:

Quote:

In comment 14268283 Strahan91 said: Quote: In comment 14268264 Jints in Carolina said: Quote: Jon Heyman � Verified account @JonHeyman Following Following @JonHeyman More Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend. That's a pretty good haul for Sonny Good haul?? I disagree. Shed was drafted in 2013 and he is still in AA. That's 5 years in the minors. His numbers were PNS (AA) .261 avg, 12 hrs 75 runs and 56 rbi's Stephenson was drafted in 2015 and is still in A+ ball. Really?? He batted .250 with 11 hrs 60 runs and 59 rbi's The Reds know that they are fleecing us.

This is a very good deal for the Yankees. According to BP they are the Reds 6th and 7th best prospects plus a draft pick for a 1 year rental of Gray who struggled mightily last season. What did you expect them to get?

Brosius and O'Neil retired, Bernie's decline came rapidly, Knoblauch too. Then they lost Clemens and Pettite and the guys they got to replace them either had trouble adjusting to NY initially (Mussina) or totally bombed (Contreras, Vazquez, Brown, etc)

Are ignoring that Machado wants to play SS. That is not emphasized enough here; youd be signing him to play SS, not 3B. I've heard hes adamant about that.

In comment 14268445 Mike from SI said:

Quote:

Are ignoring that Machado wants to play SS. That is not emphasized enough here; youd be signing him to play SS, not 3B. I've heard hes adamant about that.

Have you heard that about Machado recently? I was under the impression that�s what he said pre-free agency, in part to boost his value.

I�d bet he wouldn�t say no to more money from a team just bc they want him to play 3B at this point

In comment 14268461 mfsd said:

Quote:

In comment 14268445 Mike from SI said: Quote: Are ignoring that Machado wants to play SS. That is not emphasized enough here; youd be signing him to play SS, not 3B. I've heard hes adamant about that. Have you heard that about Machado recently? I was under the impression that�s what he said pre-free agency, in part to boost his value. I�d bet he wouldn�t say no to more money from a team just bc they want him to play 3B at this point

That's what somebody who works in baseball told me in December. He's been right in the past and wrong in the past--as are all people who work in sports leagues.

In comment 14268470 Mike from SI said:

Quote:

In comment 14268461 mfsd said: Quote: In comment 14268445 Mike from SI said: Quote: Are ignoring that Machado wants to play SS. That is not emphasized enough here; youd be signing him to play SS, not 3B. I've heard hes adamant about that. Have you heard that about Machado recently? I was under the impression that�s what he said pre-free agency, in part to boost his value. I�d bet he wouldn�t say no to more money from a team just bc they want him to play 3B at this point That's what somebody who works in baseball told me in December. He's been right in the past and wrong in the past--as are all people who work in sports leagues.

Interesting - could explain why the market for him seems softer than expected, if he�s telling teams he insists on playing SS. Who knows.

In comment 14268399 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

In comment 14268331 superspynyg said: Quote: In comment 14268283 Strahan91 said: Quote: In comment 14268264 Jints in Carolina said: Quote: Jon Heyman � Verified account @JonHeyman Following Following @JonHeyman More Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend. That's a pretty good haul for Sonny Good haul?? I disagree. Shed was drafted in 2013 and he is still in AA. That's 5 years in the minors. His numbers were PNS (AA) .261 avg, 12 hrs 75 runs and 56 rbi's Stephenson was drafted in 2015 and is still in A+ ball. Really?? He batted .250 with 11 hrs 60 runs and 59 rbi's The Reds know that they are fleecing us. This is a very good deal for the Yankees. According to BP they are the Reds 6th and 7th best prospects plus a draft pick for a 1 year rental of Gray who struggled mightily last season. What did you expect them to get?

From what I am reading now Stephenson is off the table..So it would be Shed Long. Shed has been in the minors for 5 years and he is not even in the top 10 for second basemen. I am just not high on Shed Long. I read his bio that he seems to be coming on but to me Gray is a 2-3 pitcher with the Reds. He is better than all the other guys they have including DeScalifini, Castillo, Roark and prob Wood.

And believe me I would LOVE to be wrong on him. I do like the 2nd rd pick though.

willing to include Stephenson in any deal for Gray...Shed, the pick and a lesser prospect only...

pass on Machado and use the money to go after Arenado next offseason...

WFAN is reporting

�Just to clear up something that�s getting a lot of play in NY today: Yankees and Rockies are not talking about an Arenado trade, and Yankees wouldn�t send Miguel Andujar in package for Arenado. That said, have heard NYY loves Arenado, a free agent after �19 (what�s not to love?)�

Gray to CIN for Shed Long and a draft pick.

(per Heyman)

I got bamboozled by CBS yesterday, but this one looks real.

Shedric Long is already on the Reds 40 man roster, does this mean a sway of Gray for Long on the Yankees 40 man roster?

If yes, then another Yankee needs to be assigned from the 40 man to get Adam Ottavino announced by the Yankees as official.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14268573 YANKEE28 said:

Quote:

Shedric Long is already on the Reds 40 man roster, does this mean a sway of Gray for Long on the Yankees 40 man roster? If yes, then another Yankee needs to be assigned from the 40 man to get Adam Ottavino announced by the Yankees as official. Link - ( New Window )

Didn't they already trade someone from their 40 man recently?

Yankee's 40 man roster as of today.

Who would you move, so that the Yankees can officially announce the Adam Ottavino signing?
Link - ( New Window )

He's literally the "no face available" guy. I vote for the guy I don't know.

In comment 14268606 adamg said:

Quote:

He's literally the "no face available" guy. I vote for the guy I don't know.

This made me laugh - he's a RP and was actually very good @ SWB last year, believe it or not.

He's actually been outstanding making his way up through the ranks. He might be ready for a promotion soon.

I wouldn't mind dumping Cessa, honestly.

He's coming off TJ & the Yankees,for some reason,seem to love Cessa. Cashman already pointed out Cessa has no options left while German has 1,setting up Cessa as long man & SP #6.

Heller was the guy that stood out to me as well, I agree he's a likely candidate - I just think Cessa sucks. I don't see any improvement anywhere and he's going to be 27 this season. Loaisiga should be the 6th SP. His ceiling is much higher.

Plus, Montgomery should make his way back at some point this year anyway.

In comment 14268650 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Heller was the guy that stood out to me as well, I agree he's a likely candidate - I just think Cessa sucks. I don't see any improvement anywhere and he's going to be 27 this season. Loaisiga should be the 6th SP. His ceiling is much higher. Plus, Montgomery should make his way back at some point this year anyway.

Harvey is 27 too. Wouldn't mind getting rid of Cessa either.

Jon Heyman
‏Verified account @JonHeyman

Yankees, Reds are finalizing the Sonny Gray trade. infield prospect Shed Long and a draft pick are expected to go to NY, and possibly a 3rd lesser piece. Long is an excellent hitter, fair defender. Just need to cross t�s, dot i�s (ie medicals, 40-man considerations, etc.)
10:06 PM - 19 Jan 2019

But Kaprelian and Fowler were both injured. And Gray lost a ton of value since then.

If so, that pick alone is a pretty damn good return for Gray. Getting Shed Long too makes it fantastic even if he's not a top notch prospect. He has some tools and he's not too far away from being able to potentially contribute if needed.

In comment 14268776 illmatic said:

Quote:

If so, that pick alone is a pretty damn good return for Gray. Getting Shed Long too makes it fantastic even if he's not a top notch prospect. He has some tools and he's not too far away from being able to potentially contribute if needed.

Agreed! That could be a really good prospect right there. Gray didn�t have much value currently. It�s a good move to get some return back on a move that didn�t work out.

In comment 14268755 yatqb said:

Quote:

But Kaprelian and Fowler were both injured. And Gray lost a ton of value since then.

The real irony is that despite the fact that the A's got 3 decent prospects from the Yanks (Kap, Fowler and Mateo), the Yanks are going to walk away with the most value from the deal.

Kap may never pitch again- hasn't since about 2015 now; Fowler's inability to walk (which was readily apparent in the Yanks system) has done in his chances in Oakland and Mateo is the same inconsistent guy who rarely sustains any success.

Sure, all 3 COULD take a step forward in 2019, but the trade value Oakland has actually received vs. what it expected is not even close.

The Yanks got a decent half-season from Gray- though by the playoffs that year, he was already struggling. 2018 was a failure.

Somehow, the Yanks are going to walk away with a AA/AAA 2B (essentially replaces Mateo in terms of what was given up), a VERY high draft pick that comes with $2M in slot value, and possibly an A ball or rookie ball prospect.

The pick is the real value of the trade- as it allows the Yanks many options. It can be used to get a fairly high end prospect in the draft, or to select a college SR to allow the Yanks to grab a falling guy with a high signing bonus demand who normally would not be available at their first pick.

It can also be used to "give up" if they sign a player who was given a tender offer by their team. Players like Harper, Pollack, etc.

Lots of value there. Amazing that they got that for Gray- a guy who most would have been happy if the Yanks simply non-tendered him in December.

Shed Long,a left handed hitter,I wondered, since we are now inundated w/right handed hitters,when was the last time Cashman traded for a left handed bat? The answer was July 25th,2016 When we traded Chapman to the Cubs for Gleyber,Warren & Billy McKinney & Rashad Crawford,both left handed hitters.Interesting!

Heyman thought there may be a lesser third piece but no one else has name him, if there is one.

Draft pick sets them up for a strong draft, to go along with a great 2017-2018 IFA period (last year could be solid too but it's too early to say).

Also they are revamping their hitting instruction, having raided the Astros fatm. Their hitting instruction has lagged behind their pitching instruction at the minor league levels, which is part of why they've had a lot of disappointments and few success stories among the non-elite hitting prospects. Could pay dividends in a 2-4 year timeframe.

In comment 14268832 TheMick7 said:

Quote:

Shed Long,a left handed hitter,I wondered, since we are now inundated w/right handed hitters,when was the last time Cashman traded for a left handed bat? The answer was July 25th,2016 When we traded Chapman to the Cubs for Gleyber,Warren & Billy McKinney & Rashad Crawford,both left handed hitters.Interesting!

Might be a PTBNL

are negotiating an extension with him. Shouldn't that increase the return?

By signing Ottavino the Yankees now have a 25 man roster crunch. They want to hang on to Cessa, who's out of options so they have to deal Gray and get him off the roster. The Reds and any decent GM know this

In comment 14269103 Ron from Ninerland said:

Quote:

By signing Ottavino the Yankees now have a 25 man roster crunch. They want to hang on to Cessa, who's out of options so they have to deal Gray and get him off the roster. The Reds and any decent GM know this

Nah Long is on the 40 man so no net improvement on that.

In comment 14269103 Ron from Ninerland said:

Quote:

By signing Ottavino the Yankees now have a 25 man roster crunch. They want to hang on to Cessa, who's out of options so they have to deal Gray and get him off the roster. The Reds and any decent GM know this

The Gray trade doesn't clear a roster spot- Long is on the 40 already, so its a straight one for one trade of roster spots. But don't let facts get in the way of your rant.

In comment 14269176 rich in DC said:

Quote:

In comment 14269103 Ron from Ninerland said: Quote: By signing Ottavino the Yankees now have a 25 man roster crunch. They want to hang on to Cessa, who's out of options so they have to deal Gray and get him off the roster. The Reds and any decent GM know this The Gray trade doesn't clear a roster spot- Long is on the 40 already, so its a straight one for one trade of roster spots. But don't let facts get in the way of your rant.

rich, you alright partner? that seems like a real steong reaction to what i would in no way describe as a �rant.� You�re a real valuable poster, and i really enjoy your contribution to these yankee chats. we�re all on the same side here.

Anyone know anything about Long? I've read he has a good bat and is ok defensively. Should be ready for the show as soon as this year. Doesn't seem like a bad deal at all. The pick I think is what the Yankees really wanted though.

only what I've read the past couple of days which makes it sounds like he's not an everyday MLB player. The pick is probably the bigger return.

Heyman seems to be saying the issue won't kill the deal, but might affect what Reds give up:

Reds are trying to extend Sonny Gray now, before deal is finalized. Reds know it�s hard to get pitchers to come to Great America but believe Gray, with close connection to new pitching coach Derek Johnson from Vanderbilt, will be receptive. @Ken_Rosenthal mentioned possibility.
� Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) January 20, 2019

Reds, Yankees already have agreed on the package going for Gray, believed to include 2B prospect Shed Long and a sandwich pick. But it isn�t known how the package might be reconfigured on the chance Gray says no to the extension offer. Reds r likely confident he�ll say yes tho.
� Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) January 20, 2019

And people are surprised?

what Rich is but he is a wealth of knowledge and unique perspective on NYY.

In comment 14269190 arniefez said:

Quote:

only what I've read the past couple of days which makes it sounds like he's not an everyday MLB player. The pick is probably the bigger return.

Long could be an everyday player but he has to improve his defense. He profiles as an above average bat for a second baseman but there�s talk of him needing to move to the outfield since he�s been bad at second. I don�t think his bat is good enough for an outfielder to make it as an everyday player.

In comment 14269176 rich in DC said:

Quote:

In comment 14269103 Ron from Ninerland said: Quote: By signing Ottavino the Yankees now have a 25 man roster crunch. They want to hang on to Cessa, who's out of options so they have to deal Gray and get him off the roster. The Reds and any decent GM know this The Gray trade doesn't clear a roster spot- Long is on the 40 already, so its a straight one for one trade of roster spots. But don't let facts get in the way of your rant.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem ? I said moving Gray clears a spot on the 25. It does. Long will be on the 40 man roster . Do I need to explain the difference?

isn�t set until opening day. Why would that lower the return?

In comment 14269290 Ron from Ninerland said:

Quote:

In comment 14269176 rich in DC said: Quote: In comment 14269103 Ron from Ninerland said: Quote: By signing Ottavino the Yankees now have a 25 man roster crunch. They want to hang on to Cessa, who's out of options so they have to deal Gray and get him off the roster. The Reds and any decent GM know this The Gray trade doesn't clear a roster spot- Long is on the 40 already, so its a straight one for one trade of roster spots. But don't let facts get in the way of your rant. Do you have a reading comprehension problem ? I said moving Gray clears a spot on the 25. It does. Long will be on the 40 man roster . Do I need to explain the difference?

There is NO 25 man roster in the off-season. Only a 40 man roster. Do I need to explain further?

no wonder why they are losers.

Just some bullpen management issues. The 40 man is the issue, and it remains one.

In comment 14269442 xman said:

Quote:

no wonder why they are losers.

I don't think trying to extend him is a bad move. It gives them additional player control and he should be affordable coming off a crappy year where he was removed from the rotation and not even a consideration in the postseason.

Gray should perform much better in Cinci. Some guys just aren't made to play in New York - especially not for the Yanks. He's not a terrible pitcher, this marriage just didn't work.

otherwise deal could be off.

Quote:

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 38s38 seconds ago No resolution on #Reds/#Yankees/Gray expected tonight. Deadline on 72-hour negotiating window for CIN/Gray is late in day tomorrow, per source. Unclear if teams have different trade ready if no extension is agreed upon, or if NYY would turn to alternate plan with another club.

In comment 14269491 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

In comment 14269442 xman said: Quote: no wonder why they are losers. I don't think trying to extend him is a bad move. It gives them additional player control and he should be affordable coming off a crappy year where he was removed from the rotation and not even a consideration in the postseason. Gray should perform much better in Cinci. Some guys just aren't made to play in New York - especially not for the Yanks. He's not a terrible pitcher, this marriage just didn't work.

I agree. I think that Gray would WANT to reach an extension for at least a year. He needs to re-establish value and the Reds pitching coach is his college pitching coach, who he trusts greatly. In two years, if successful, he could be in line for a BIG payday.

would be predictable.

But apparently it went over some heads here so I'll break it down. Prior to the Ottavino deal the Yankees had the option of waiting until after opening day to deal Gray. Cashman even commented that was an option. Once they got Ottavino they lost that option. Why ? Because to make room for Ottavino they would no longer have room for both Cessa and Gray on the 25 man roster assuming everybody remained healthy until opening day. Hence they now need to deal Gray before opening day, hence his value is lessened since other GM's know this.

P.S. for rich in DC. To preempt what will probably be your next post, I am not suggesting they should not have signed Ottavino and no, I do not prefer Gray to Ottavino.

In comment 14269655 Ryan in Albany said:

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would be predictable.

As along as this is completed on the road, there�s more than a league average chance it gets done.

In comment 14269799 Ron from Ninerland said:

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But apparently it went over some heads here so I'll break it down. Prior to the Ottavino deal the Yankees had the option of waiting until after opening day to deal Gray. Cashman even commented that was an option. Once they got Ottavino they lost that option. Why ? Because to make room for Ottavino they would no longer have room for both Cessa and Gray on the 25 man roster assuming everybody remained healthy until opening day. Hence they now need to deal Gray before opening day, hence his value is lessened since other GM's know this. P.S. for rich in DC. To preempt what will probably be your next post, I am not suggesting they should not have signed Ottavino and no, I do not prefer Gray to Ottavino.

The difference between a great deal for Gray and a mediocre one is pretty slim. All it takes is two or three teams (which there are) looking to trade for him that keeps his value pretty static. There is little value lost because of Cessa being on the 25 man team bubble because Cessa is about #27 or #28 on that roster at best. Chance of Cashman losing sleep over Cessa is negligible. He will likely be traded toward the end of ST when it appears all the starters are healthy to start the season.

In comment 14270142 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 14269799 Ron from Ninerland said: Quote: But apparently it went over some heads here so I'll break it down. Prior to the Ottavino deal the Yankees had the option of waiting until after opening day to deal Gray. Cashman even commented that was an option. Once they got Ottavino they lost that option. Why ? Because to make room for Ottavino they would no longer have room for both Cessa and Gray on the 25 man roster assuming everybody remained healthy until opening day. Hence they now need to deal Gray before opening day, hence his value is lessened since other GM's know this. P.S. for rich in DC. To preempt what will probably be your next post, I am not suggesting they should not have signed Ottavino and no, I do not prefer Gray to Ottavino. The difference between a great deal for Gray and a mediocre one is pretty slim. All it takes is two or three teams (which there are) looking to trade for him that keeps his value pretty static. There is little value lost because of Cessa being on the 25 man team bubble because Cessa is about #27 or #28 on that roster at best. Chance of Cashman losing sleep over Cessa is negligible. He will likely be traded toward the end of ST when it appears all the starters are healthy to start the season.

Correct, teams regularly trade out-of-option guys who won't make the 25 man roster art the end of spring training. Cessa isn't the only one out of options and facing a make or break situation.

Kahnle is also out of options. That also explains why there are reports teams are asking about him.

Thus, to think that player X "must" be traded before spring training is not even close to true. The roster isn't set until opening day- and sometimes is adjusted for a week or two after.

or Cessa, I'm keeping Kahnle.

In comment 14270164 rich in DC said:

Quote:

In comment 14270142 section125 said: Quote: In comment 14269799 Ron from Ninerland said: Quote: But apparently it went over some heads here so I'll break it down. Prior to the Ottavino deal the Yankees had the option of waiting until after opening day to deal Gray. Cashman even commented that was an option. Once they got Ottavino they lost that option. Why ? Because to make room for Ottavino they would no longer have room for both Cessa and Gray on the 25 man roster assuming everybody remained healthy until opening day. Hence they now need to deal Gray before opening day, hence his value is lessened since other GM's know this. P.S. for rich in DC. To preempt what will probably be your next post, I am not suggesting they should not have signed Ottavino and no, I do not prefer Gray to Ottavino. The difference between a great deal for Gray and a mediocre one is pretty slim. All it takes is two or three teams (which there are) looking to trade for him that keeps his value pretty static. There is little value lost because of Cessa being on the 25 man team bubble because Cessa is about #27 or #28 on that roster at best. Chance of Cashman losing sleep over Cessa is negligible. He will likely be traded toward the end of ST when it appears all the starters are healthy to start the season. Correct, teams regularly trade out-of-option guys who won't make the 25 man roster art the end of spring training. Cessa isn't the only one out of options and facing a make or break situation. Kahnle is also out of options. That also explains why there are reports teams are asking about him. Thus, to think that player X "must" be traded before spring training is not even close to true. The roster isn't set until opening day- and sometimes is adjusted for a week or two after.

Great. Awesome. You clearly know your shit.

Here�s a question. Can you stop being a cunt who acts like they�re getting paid to post their opinions like they�re fact? It�s getting pretty fucking old.

In comment 14270198 Hsilwek92 said:

Quote:

Great. Awesome. You clearly know your shit. Here�s a question. Can you stop being a cunt who acts like they�re getting paid to post their opinions like they�re fact? It�s getting pretty fucking old.

wow, touchy.

In comment 14270198 Hsilwek92 said:

Quote:

In comment 14270164 rich in DC said: Quote: In comment 14270142 section125 said: Quote: In comment 14269799 Ron from Ninerland said: Quote: But apparently it went over some heads here so I'll break it down. Prior to the Ottavino deal the Yankees had the option of waiting until after opening day to deal Gray. Cashman even commented that was an option. Once they got Ottavino they lost that option. Why ? Because to make room for Ottavino they would no longer have room for both Cessa and Gray on the 25 man roster assuming everybody remained healthy until opening day. Hence they now need to deal Gray before opening day, hence his value is lessened since other GM's know this. P.S. for rich in DC. To preempt what will probably be your next post, I am not suggesting they should not have signed Ottavino and no, I do not prefer Gray to Ottavino. The difference between a great deal for Gray and a mediocre one is pretty slim. All it takes is two or three teams (which there are) looking to trade for him that keeps his value pretty static. There is little value lost because of Cessa being on the 25 man team bubble because Cessa is about #27 or #28 on that roster at best. Chance of Cashman losing sleep over Cessa is negligible. He will likely be traded toward the end of ST when it appears all the starters are healthy to start the season. Correct, teams regularly trade out-of-option guys who won't make the 25 man roster art the end of spring training. Cessa isn't the only one out of options and facing a make or break situation. Kahnle is also out of options. That also explains why there are reports teams are asking about him. Thus, to think that player X "must" be traded before spring training is not even close to true. The roster isn't set until opening day- and sometimes is adjusted for a week or two after. Great. Awesome. You clearly know your shit. Here�s a question. Can you stop being a cunt who acts like they�re getting paid to post their opinions like they�re fact? It�s getting pretty fucking old.

whatever.

Ok. Good to know you�ll keep up the self important, know it all cunty tone.

Clearly it�s done wonders for you.

In comment 14270537 Hsilwek92 said:

Quote:

Ok. Good to know you�ll keep up the self important, know it all cunty tone. Clearly it�s done wonders for you.

We don't need yours either. Yeah, rich can be a bit self important at times, but you calling him names comes off worse.

In comment 14270537 Hsilwek92 said:

Quote:

Ok. Good to know you�ll keep up the self important, know it all cunty tone. Clearly it�s done wonders for you.

Dude, I don�t know the backstory to this exchange, but you�ve got to lighten up man. You�re ruining an otherwise quality thread

In comment 14270609 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 14270537 Hsilwek92 said: Quote: Ok. Good to know you�ll keep up the self important, know it all cunty tone. Clearly it�s done wonders for you. We don't need yours either. Yeah, rich can be a bit self important at times, but you calling him names comes off worse.

I�m calling them like I see them.

Do some research. I�m not the one who has acted like a condescending asshole Yankee thread after Yankee thread. Just look at this one.

Truth hurts.

In comment 14270710 Hsilwek92 said:

Quote:

In comment 14270609 section125 said: Quote: In comment 14270537 Hsilwek92 said: Quote: Ok. Good to know you�ll keep up the self important, know it all cunty tone. Clearly it�s done wonders for you. We don't need yours either. Yeah, rich can be a bit self important at times, but you calling him names comes off worse. I�m calling them like I see them. Do some research. I�m not the one who has acted like a condescending asshole Yankee thread after Yankee thread. Just look at this one. Truth hurts.

I gotta say he is right here. Rich seems to have the need to write an essay about the Yankees in which he chooses to attack other posters and speak as if his take is gospel. He recently said he wouldn�t �lower himself to that level� while talking about what another guys opinon was. Rich writes good points about the Yankees but tries to be verbose and arrogant.

We are all just talking about what we think the Yankees should do here and there, none of us are the GM or the owner so we don�t know anything for certain. Even if you know someone that�s with the Yankees and get some info, plans can change very quickly in any business. It�s ok for people to have a different opinion then the next guy. It�s the point of a message board.

I played baseball and football at a D1 school and have learned a lot about playing both sports, but when it comes to what the Giants and Yankees should do to improve rosters I am not nearly as informed as a lot of the posters on here. And that is why I have loved this site for maybe 16/17 years. Shitting on someone else on a message board because they don�t hold the exact same thoughts as you is pathetic. Rich is not a victim here he is an instigator. When he is just talking about the Yankees and not trying to belittle someone else he definitely makes great points, however, when he chooses to insult someone else he shouldn�t be defended.

In comment 14271156 mattyblue said:

Quote:

In comment 14270710 Hsilwek92 said: Quote: In comment 14270609 section125 said: Quote: In comment 14270537 Hsilwek92 said: Quote: Ok. Good to know you�ll keep up the self important, know it all cunty tone. Clearly it�s done wonders for you. We don't need yours either. Yeah, rich can be a bit self important at times, but you calling him names comes off worse. I�m calling them like I see them. Do some research. I�m not the one who has acted like a condescending asshole Yankee thread after Yankee thread. Just look at this one. Truth hurts. I gotta say he is right here. Rich seems to have the need to write an essay about the Yankees in which he chooses to attack other posters and speak as if his take is gospel. He recently said he wouldn�t �lower himself to that level� while talking about what another guys opinon was. Rich writes good points about the Yankees but tries to be verbose and arrogant. We are all just talking about what we think the Yankees should do here and there, none of us are the GM or the owner so we don�t know anything for certain. Even if you know someone that�s with the Yankees and get some info, plans can change very quickly in any business. It�s ok for people to have a different opinion then the next guy. It�s the point of a message board. I played baseball and football at a D1 school and have learned a lot about playing both sports, but when it comes to what the Giants and Yankees should do to improve rosters I am not nearly as informed as a lot of the posters on here. And that is why I have loved this site for maybe 16/17 years. Shitting on someone else on a message board because they don�t hold the exact same thoughts as you is pathetic. Rich is not a victim here he is an instigator. When he is just talking about the Yankees and not trying to belittle someone else he definitely makes great points, however, when he chooses to insult someone else he shouldn�t be defended.

Do we really need to call people cunts or bitches? Yes rich has a holier than thou attitude and it is fine to call him on that as he is quite condescending at times. But can we leave the foul name calling language out of the conversation? I'm a sailor, so I am used to language that would make your head turn, but it is unnecessary especially on a sports board. Would you call him those names to his face?

As for the research part, I'm on almost every Yankee thread and have been for years, so I pretty much know each Yankee poster's style and who knows their stuff and who is full of bull.

A few posters want to come on and voice there opinion. Those thoughts seem to go against what Rich feels, or might be off a bit information-wise...Rich belittles them and they get offended and react, and we defend Rich? His act is the same EVERY Yankee thread, and while I appreciate the knowledge and Yankee insight, the attitude and such is what is derailing the threads, not the responses. I was the poster that Rich wouldn�t lower himself to continue to speak with, because I thought the Yankees should spend money because they have the resources and opportunities. I got attacked saying I was an entitled fan, didn�t know what I was talking about and not worthy of discourse. But let�s defend is actions when he gets called out. I know he�s been here a long time, and he does add value MOST of the time, but he needs to be called out, and it his his condescending tone and responses that�s are takingbthreads down...

In comment 14271252 LarmerTJR said:

Quote:

A few posters want to come on and voice there opinion. Those thoughts seem to go against what Rich feels, or might be off a bit information-wise...Rich belittles them and they get offended and react, and we defend Rich? His act is the same EVERY Yankee thread, and while I appreciate the knowledge and Yankee insight, the attitude and such is what is derailing the threads, not the responses. I was the poster that Rich wouldn�t lower himself to continue to speak with, because I thought the Yankees should spend money because they have the resources and opportunities. I got attacked saying I was an entitled fan, didn�t know what I was talking about and not worthy of discourse. But let�s defend is actions when he gets called out. I know he�s been here a long time, and he does add value MOST of the time, but he needs to be called out, and it his his condescending tone and responses that�s are takingbthreads down...

Did you call him a cunt or a bitch? No, I remember that thread. Call him out fine, no problem.

I am not defending rich. It is the name calling. My point is, would you call him a cunt or a bitch to his face? I doubt you would. You don't earn the moral high ground when resorting to vile name calling.

Maybe I have wrongly assumed the moral high ground here. But I really don't need to read the vile name calling and believe me, there are times I'd love to have laced into a few posters where I ended up deleting my post. Like I said, I'm a sailor. There is not a name or word I have not seen or used.

I'll butt out and wait for the next Yanks thread.

and see what happens.

I have no doubt that he will pitch well away from New York, we can�t just accept a bag of balls just because he couldn�t handle the pressure here. Teams interested in him are banking on him returning to form.

On a separate note, I keep thinking of Randy Levine when reading you know who�s posts. I mean, I don�t think even Hal Steinbrenner would tell Yankees fans how they should feel about the team�s finances.

Section

You are right, I did not resort to name calling, although I may have wanted to. And there is no place for the tough guy internet crap. But the same goes for Rich. If he spoke to people like this in real life there is a good chance he gets popped in the face.

In comment 14271295 section125 said:

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In comment 14271252 LarmerTJR said: Quote: A few posters want to come on and voice there opinion. Those thoughts seem to go against what Rich feels, or might be off a bit information-wise...Rich belittles them and they get offended and react, and we defend Rich? His act is the same EVERY Yankee thread, and while I appreciate the knowledge and Yankee insight, the attitude and such is what is derailing the threads, not the responses. I was the poster that Rich wouldn�t lower himself to continue to speak with, because I thought the Yankees should spend money because they have the resources and opportunities. I got attacked saying I was an entitled fan, didn�t know what I was talking about and not worthy of discourse. But let�s defend is actions when he gets called out. I know he�s been here a long time, and he does add value MOST of the time, but he needs to be called out, and it his his condescending tone and responses that�s are takingbthreads down... Did you call him a cunt or a bitch? No, I remember that thread. Call him out fine, no problem. I am not defending rich. It is the name calling. My point is, would you call him a cunt or a bitch to his face? I doubt you would. You don't earn the moral high ground when resorting to vile name calling. Maybe I have wrongly assumed the moral high ground here. But I really don't need to read the vile name calling and believe me, there are times I'd love to have laced into a few posters where I ended up deleting my post. Like I said, I'm a sailor. There is not a name or word I have not seen or used. I'll butt out and wait for the next Yanks thread.

In comment 14271229 section125 said:

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In comment 14271156 mattyblue said: Quote: In comment 14270710 Hsilwek92 said: Quote: In comment 14270609 section125 said: Quote: In comment 14270537 Hsilwek92 said: Quote: Ok. Good to know you�ll keep up the self important, know it all cunty tone. Clearly it�s done wonders for you. We don't need yours either. Yeah, rich can be a bit self important at times, but you calling him names comes off worse. I�m calling them like I see them. Do some research. I�m not the one who has acted like a condescending asshole Yankee thread after Yankee thread. Just look at this one. Truth hurts. I gotta say he is right here. Rich seems to have the need to write an essay about the Yankees in which he chooses to attack other posters and speak as if his take is gospel. He recently said he wouldn�t �lower himself to that level� while talking about what another guys opinon was. Rich writes good points about the Yankees but tries to be verbose and arrogant. We are all just talking about what we think the Yankees should do here and there, none of us are the GM or the owner so we don�t know anything for certain. Even if you know someone that�s with the Yankees and get some info, plans can change very quickly in any business. It�s ok for people to have a different opinion then the next guy. It�s the point of a message board. I played baseball and football at a D1 school and have learned a lot about playing both sports, but when it comes to what the Giants and Yankees should do to improve rosters I am not nearly as informed as a lot of the posters on here. And that is why I have loved this site for maybe 16/17 years. Shitting on someone else on a message board because they don�t hold the exact same thoughts as you is pathetic. Rich is not a victim here he is an instigator. When he is just talking about the Yankees and not trying to belittle someone else he definitely makes great points, however, when he chooses to insult someone else he shouldn�t be defended. Do we really need to call people cunts or bitches? Yes rich has a holier than thou attitude and it is fine to call him on that as he is quite condescending at times. But can we leave the foul name calling language out of the conversation? I'm a sailor, so I am used to language that would make your head turn, but it is unnecessary especially on a sports board. Would you call him those names to his face? As for the research part, I'm on almost every Yankee thread and have been for years, so I pretty much know each Yankee poster's style and who knows their stuff and who is full of bull.

Section I totally agree with you. The name calling is totally unnecessary. However, Rich needs to stop his routine as well and doesn�t deserve to be defended. I always advocate for people to stop attacking each other on a message board. It�s totally unnecessary in any situation. Rich may not have called him a cunt, but I have seen him continuously do things just as bad with his smarter than the world routine. Either way you are correct it�s not needed, but I maintain what Rich did to the guy is just as bad.