I wouldn't be surprised if EE is on the trading block after what went down last year.
He's got game - which means he's got value. And for the right team - NE, a team using spread concepts, etc - he could see more snaps. But the Barkley-centric offense functioned better with Ellison & Simonson at TE and the smart play for the Giants, with very special players in Barkley & Beckham, is a run heavy/play action offense.
Would you trade him for a 2? The Giants don't have a 3 (used for CB Sam Beal which I believe is great need/value). Essentially, the Giants could parlay Engram into a starting OL, front 7 or secondary player. I think it's a no brainer for the Giants and expect them to explore this possibility.
No chance he’s traded.
EE was drafted too early by Giants but he shouldn't be moved at this point.
1) he is near the end of a contract and you aren't going to resign him (and then you won't get much)
2) He is really a bad fit for the system.
3) Cap issues
4) He really wants out, to the point that he is a distraction.
If the Giants want more blocking the EE provides, let them play 2 TE rather than 3 WR. EE is a better receiver than our 3rd WR, whoever that is. If Shurmur can't figure that out, we have problems that can't be fixed by any roster changes.
A second round pick is about a 15% chance of being as good as Engram.
Wrong theead
Why is he only a part- time weapon? Because he missed time due to injury? I’m not understanding your position on this.
Also, why is he not a good fit for this offense? Seems to me he fit very well the 2nd half of the season.
+1
Maybe, but a draft pick, even a second rounder, is a modest chance of getting a good full time lineman or DB.
And there is no reason Engram can be a full time player.. Just because he was hurt this year means nothing.
I would assume Simonson is back. Showed enough blocking this year to stick as a cheap option
But the injury bug...if a team threw an early 2nd round pick or late 1st...sure.
If not then he prob should stay another year.
I think that a TE is more of a luxury, and an additional 2nd rounder would do wonders to plug holes on this roster. A cheap free agent like Jesse James or Clive Walford could get the job done.
Engram probably won’t be on this team when it will have a roster ready to contend, so trading him while he has value makes sense. I also doubt that he’ll get a $10 million dollar contract here when his rookie deal expires.
I don’t think he’s on the “trade block” per se, but it wouldn’t totally stun me to see an Engram trade.
Quote:
gone after 2019.
I would assume Simonson is back. Showed enough blocking this year to stick as a cheap option
Scott Simonson is a penalty machine and a fringe NFL player. I'd much rather have a late draft pick or UDFA with upside as the third tight end.
Re: Engram -- if Shurmur and Shula cannot find a way to get him involved in the offense, shame on them.
I was really encouraged by the way they used him against Indy. Getting the ball in his hands on screens and sweeps is really smart.
Toward the end of the season you thought he wasn't used a lot? I feel he was underused and he still produced big.
Huh I don't think NE would want him either, they often go power I nowadays.
Huh I don't think NE would want him either, they often go power I nowadays.
One of your stupidest posts, and that is saying something. Doesn't belong on the same team as Barkley? By your reasoning the only player left to be on the same team is OBJ and you probably don't like him either, right?
Quote:
He doesn't belong on the same team as SB.
Huh I don't think NE would want him either, they often go power I nowadays.
One of your stupidest posts, and that is saying something. Doesn't belong on the same team as Barkley? By your reasoning the only player left to be on the same team is OBJ and you probably don't like him either, right?
Such derp. I would prefer a 2 way TE blocking for SB. Also signing OBJ to a top elite WR contract was DGs worst move, even worst than Stewart.
Quote:
In comment 14277865 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
He doesn't belong on the same team as SB.
Huh I don't think NE would want him either, they often go power I nowadays.
One of your stupidest posts, and that is saying something. Doesn't belong on the same team as Barkley? By your reasoning the only player left to be on the same team is OBJ and you probably don't like him either, right?
Such derp. I would prefer a 2 way TE blocking for SB. Also signing OBJ to a top elite WR contract was DGs worst move, even worst than Stewart.
No kidding, you continue to post gems.
Look, we have Beckham, Barkley, and Shepard. There are also role players around the team and you can get another good TE with a mid-round pick. Yes, a player like Engram who can stretch the seam with his speed is a useful attribute. But how often is that happening anyway?
Imagine getting a starting corner or a good edge rusher or a really good starting RT at the expense of your 4th offensive option? Because really, it's Beckham, Barkley, and then Shepard or Engram are next. Yes, there is a bust potential, but the upside, particularly if it's a top 50 pick, is too great. And very likely, he won't be re-signed anyway. So yeah, I would trade 2 years and a higher dollar 5th year option for 4 years of a 2nd round player who could make a bigger impact on our team where we really need it.
This is shaping up to be a decent draft for TE's
Time to upgrade Ellison/Simonson imo
Look, we have Beckham, Barkley, and Shepard. There are also role players around the team and you can get another good TE with a mid-round pick. Yes, a player like Engram who can stretch the seam with his speed is a useful attribute. But how often is that happening anyway?
Imagine getting a starting corner or a good edge rusher or a really good starting RT at the expense of your 4th offensive option? Because really, it's Beckham, Barkley, and then Shepard or Engram are next. Yes, there is a bust potential, but the upside, particularly if it's a top 50 pick, is too great. And very likely, he won't be re-signed anyway. So yeah, I would trade 2 years and a higher dollar 5th year option for 4 years of a 2nd round player who could make a bigger impact on our team where we really need it.
jim, does it make sense to trade a known commodity and a good one, for an unknown leaving a hole in the offense that will then need to be replaced?
Quote:
Yes, I think he's a very good player. But he's not the difference in this team making the next step, and another 2nd rounder would put the Giants in position to really grab another impact player for the defense, or solidify the right side of the offensive line.
Look, we have Beckham, Barkley, and Shepard. There are also role players around the team and you can get another good TE with a mid-round pick. Yes, a player like Engram who can stretch the seam with his speed is a useful attribute. But how often is that happening anyway?
Imagine getting a starting corner or a good edge rusher or a really good starting RT at the expense of your 4th offensive option? Because really, it's Beckham, Barkley, and then Shepard or Engram are next. Yes, there is a bust potential, but the upside, particularly if it's a top 50 pick, is too great. And very likely, he won't be re-signed anyway. So yeah, I would trade 2 years and a higher dollar 5th year option for 4 years of a 2nd round player who could make a bigger impact on our team where we really need it.
jim, does it make sense to trade a known commodity and a good one, for an unknown leaving a hole in the offense that will then need to be replaced?
This. This guy gets it. Fans asking "should be trade away a still fairly new very talented player for a total unknown to stock up on draft picks" drive me nuts
- 2 good WRs and a bunch of question marks.
- Engram at TE, and then a very overpaid Ellison and comical depth
- If Barkley gets banged up, it's Gallman and a guy who was on the NFI all year, and a practice squad guy
With the number of holes on the offensive line, and the numerous holes on defense, creating more holes is laughable.
+1
Nope. I posted earlier that I had no idea what position the OP was trying to take here. Really bizarre.
That was where I stopped reading the OP.
although I am sure you strong football minds could have surmised this...maybe not
Let's face it. Nobody on this team is untouchable.
But I'd definitely take a 3rd for EE. So I would be thrilled for a second.
Nor am I opposed to keeping him either. Finding good ones requires some work. It's not like going to the RB Store on every corner of the 32 cities where there are NFL teams.
He doesn't look like he's on that level, but Ertz has massive impact for the Eagles and that type of production is 100% worth a 1st round pick.
These guys are putting up WR1 numbers. There's the "new breed" of TE's and that's what Engram is supposed to be.
It seemed like he got completely lost in the mix earlier in the year but that we started getting the ball in his hands a little more later on. He's talented - he just sucks at blocking.
I'd use him more as a WR opposite Beckham outside. There's a good skillset to work with here - the guy is very, very fast and you can create mismatches with him.
Engram has more value to NYG than what he'd fetch in a trade right now.
It seemed like he got completely lost in the mix earlier in the year but that we started getting the ball in his hands a little more later on. He's talented - he just sucks at blocking. ...
Early in the season EE got his knee cheap shotted and that shut him down for a while.
again, trading an untapped commodity for an unknown player and then turning around and trying to replace him with somebody else.
Given the way Shurmur and Eli started using him at the end of last year, I'd like to see what he will do with a full year.
I suppose an early second would be ok, but seems like a waste.
If Shurmur can't find a way to get the ball in the hand's of a guy with that size/speed combo, that's a coaching issue.
The bad news - Shep & Engram are misplaced and misused.
The good news - Shep & Engram are ready to shine at their natural positions
In a three receiver set, Shep at the slot is ready to contribute as the "pesky" Cole Beasley does for Dallas. (He is NOT a #2, just not big and strong enough)
Engram is the ideal #2; he takes the double-team off OBJ (the #1) with his speed in the deep zones; provides the big target when your QBs in trouble; provides the big target for end zone fades.
STOP worrying about what he can't do (block). focus on the thing he CAN do !
Bottomline - NO.
If Arizona offered their second-round pick, #33 overall, I might have to think about it. But it would depend who's on the board at that point. But you're trading a guy you find disappointing for a roll of the dice. Engram may not be Tony Gonzales or Antonio Gates but he's not Adrien Robinson, either. He's a big-play weapon. I doubt the Giants are as disappointed as you seem to be. He's one of several guys who seemed to take a while to find a niche with Shurmur's offense.
Quote:
Yes, I think he's a very good player. But he's not the difference in this team making the next step, and another 2nd rounder would put the Giants in position to really grab another impact player for the defense, or solidify the right side of the offensive line.
Look, we have Beckham, Barkley, and Shepard. There are also role players around the team and you can get another good TE with a mid-round pick. Yes, a player like Engram who can stretch the seam with his speed is a useful attribute. But how often is that happening anyway?
Imagine getting a starting corner or a good edge rusher or a really good starting RT at the expense of your 4th offensive option? Because really, it's Beckham, Barkley, and then Shepard or Engram are next. Yes, there is a bust potential, but the upside, particularly if it's a top 50 pick, is too great. And very likely, he won't be re-signed anyway. So yeah, I would trade 2 years and a higher dollar 5th year option for 4 years of a 2nd round player who could make a bigger impact on our team where we really need it.
jim, does it make sense to trade a known commodity and a good one, for an unknown leaving a hole in the offense that will then need to be replaced?
I don't believe it really creates a hole, personally. But yes, if we are getting a 2nd back, I think that is enough value. I'm not sure where this fear is with premium picks, at some point you have to trust your scouting department. And you build winning teams through the draft.
Look at our recent 2nd rounders, also: Will Hernandez, Dalvin Tomlinson, Sterling Shepard, Weston Richburg ( who was good when healthy), and Jonathan Hankins...good players. I'm not taking away anything from Engram, either, he's a good player. I wouldn't let him go for nothing. But if I can get a 2nd rounder, in particular a top 50 player, I feel that I'm going to get more bang for my buck, another year or two of control, and I'm going to get a player at a position that is going to make a bigger impact than my 4th offensive weapon.
Bottom line a lock solid RT makes this team better than Evan Engram does.
You give me David Edwards in the 2nd and Ellison, Simonson and a league average TE minus Engram and I believe this team will be a better team.
That means more snaps, more variety for offense and more production for EE.
EE should be used as a TE on pass downs. Assuming that it will be impossible to double him (see OBJ), you will almost always have a favorable speed/quickness matchup against a LB, a favorable size matchup against a CB, or a bit of both against a S.
EE s/b H-back on other downs. Motion him a lot in order to get favorable position and/or matchup. Blocking schemes should be designed to allow him to beat his block to a position on the field and then hold that position. Do not feature plays expecting him to hold or dominate a position against DEs.
Against 8 in the box, use play action often with EE faking block and going deep down side of the field. If he is single covered, QB just needs to give him a better path to the ball. And yes, QBs making what Eli makes do this all the time.
Problem is he's from fucking Newburgh.
Whereas EE may break one big play per gamr maybe 2 or none
So, yes, you might make that exchange if it was a lock.
But...I do like Jim's point slightly better.
So, it's close but yes. The 2.
We need targets for Eli (or whomever the QB is) and someone he can go to when OBJ and Barkley are accounted for by opposing defenses. EE gave us a glimpse of what he could do late in the season.
I'd give him another season. That said, the Giants should be looking to acquire additional help at TE - possible future replacements for EE and for blocking/depth.
Should have used something like "fighting the last war."
s
s
Fucking idiot
And you came to this conclusion, how?
For many of them, just selecting a new QB is the only way to turn things around.
It's so easy. Just use Engram as H-Back and don't ask him to block anybody ever and just hit him with deep play action passes. Play action - which, by the way - won't be set up due to inferior blocking and limited play selection.
Design a cute little offense around the limitations of a really fast H-back instead of around a GOAT RB.
Championship!
Quote:
which they aren't. They're trying to do a lot of things at once, and not a lot of them well, to be honest.
And you came to this conclusion, how?
EE should be used as a TE on pass downs. Assuming that it will be impossible to double him (see OBJ), you will almost always have a favorable speed/quickness matchup against a LB, a favorable size matchup against a CB, or a bit of both against a S.
EE s/b H-back on other downs. Motion him a lot in order to get favorable position and/or matchup. Blocking schemes should be designed to allow him to beat his block to a position on the field and then hold that position. Do not feature plays expecting him to hold or dominate a position against DEs.
Against 8 in the box, use play action often with EE faking block and going deep down side of the field. If he is single covered, QB just needs to give him a better path to the ball. And yes, QBs making what Eli makes do this all the time.
What does being white have to do with anything?
Stupid.
If there is a place to take a hard look, it's there. The Giants can save 3M cutting Ellison and put that toward any number of solutions, including a UFA right tackle. The Giants also likely have 10+ draft picks, and would be wise to use one on a primary blocking tight end.
Trading a 3rd year player, who's 6 years younger, and makes 2.7+M less isn't particular wise.
The Giants don't need to construct an exotic shift in approach to get Engram the ball.
If they have all their guns, he's the 4th best option on the field, which you need in today's NFL.