Belichick: LT Best Player I've Ever Seen

that comment.

But then I decided to try and learn/watch more of all-time NFL defensive players. I realized that I personally had underrated LT.

People pigeonhole him with the pass rusher label which is simply unfair. There were better pure pass rushers than him. The bigger guys like Reggie, Deacon, Watt, etc.

LT was/is the only player in NFL history who was the best in space and at the LOS at the same time for his defense.

Check out the Goaline highlight mix of LT that I’ve linked. He played “deep safety” at the GL plenty of times because he had the most sideline-to-sideline tackling ability of any player on his D.

His most impressive skill was his ability to run across the field to make plays due to his athleticism, speed, and power for his size. LT would have made the HOF easily as a pure MLB and could’ve made it as a run stopping SS based on his speed. There’s no other “next LT” 34 OLB that could think about making the HOF as a SS. Von comes closest but his speed is much more reliant on short bursts.

As great of a pure interior pass rusher as Donald is, LTs ability to dominate across all levels of the field is why it’s doubtful we’ll ever see a better defensive player than LT for a while.
LT at the GL - ( New Window )

He's probably right in terms of imposing your will on the game. Defensively he's probably the best player ever. No disrespect to Deacon Jones or Reggie White or Joe Greene but none of them could be that dominant and have a consistent unyielding impact on games.

Brady fired up?

Recall that the Giants had the #2 choice in the draft that year and that New Orleans, with the First Overall Choice, selected George Rogers, a running back. Talk about being fortunate......LT's presence turned the Giants into an instantly respectable team on the way to several years later winning the Super Bowl.
He was the very definition of a dominant, game changing player.

Like a Luke Kuechley or Leighton Vander Esch or Jaylon Smith flying around against the Giants, and think to yourself, wow he's fast....

Go on youtube and look up some LT games...

He was faster...way faster
He was bigger...way bigger
He hit harder...way harder

He was dominant.

He was the best.

In comment 14280677 varco said:

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Recall that the Giants had the #2 choice in the draft that year and that New Orleans, with the First Overall Choice, selected George Rogers, a running back. Talk about being fortunate......LT's presence turned the Giants into an instantly respectable team on the way to several years later winning the Super Bowl. He was the very definition of a dominant, game changing player.

Similar to last year. I liked Mayfield the best outof all the QBs but Saquon was by far the best player in the draft.

Anyone who thinks Aaron Donald is close to LT has no clue. Doesn’t mean he isn’t a HOF player. He’s just not close. It’s like when idiots would say Ray Lewis was as good as LT. Just move on. Also unlike most opinion based arguemenrs Bill B’s opinion matters more than most.

..

In comment 14280678 GiantsRage2007 said:

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Like a Luke Kuechley or Leighton Vander Esch or Jaylon Smith flying around against the Giants, and think to yourself, wow he's fast.... Go on youtube and look up some LT games... He was faster...way faster He was bigger...way bigger He hit harder...way harder He was dominant. He was the best.

You left off powerful. LT could run over OTs. He used to shove Joe Jacoby, one of the 1st true 300 lb+ OTs backward like it was nothing. Joe was huge and an excellent tackle.
Remember when Buddy Ryan bragged he found a QB that could out run LT - Randall Cunningham? LT caught him from behind 1st game they played.

He changed the ways offenses lined up. He helped create the H Back position. No other player has impacted the game like LT He was simply the best ever.

In comment 14280673 Giant John said:

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Brady fired up?

It has nothing to do with Brady and I doubt he is affected by these comments. It was clearly in response to a question about Donald.

more than any QB ever. LT changed the game in addition to excelling at in inarguably better than anyone else who ever played the game.

I got to witness his whole career, and it is not an understatement....he is the best ever!

I remember watching the last game in 1989 vs the Raider with my then brother in law and I said to him “ We need a sack from LT right here! “. That play, LT went through 2 OL and destroyed the QB, it happened so fast and was very violent. It didn’t look normal.....and it wasn’t.

When we here scouts and drafts gurus talk about “ Bend “ from Edge Rushers, they are talking about the flexibility and power like LT possessed.

He was just amazing.

that he referred to the Jets as “another organization”.... when asked about his relationship with Parcells he said they worked together with the Giants, Patriots & another organization.

The camera normally follows the ball and that was how I watched the game. When LT was on the field I locked in on 56 and he would take my eyes to the ball. The best experience was to go to a game where you were not limited by the cameras and could watch every second of action with LT.

has on the game itself. In my lifetime and I am now 64, in the various sports I love, there have only been two such players. There was Bobby Orr in hockey who changed the way the game was played and paved the way for offensive defencemen leading to many who are now among league if not team scoring leaders. Orr was a completely unique talent in that he was the best skater in the league and a dominant offensive talent as well as a magnificent defender.

Lawrence Taylor was the other in that he changed the way football was played. Prior to Taylor, LBs were mainly run stoppers and dropped into coverage. But Taylor forced offenses to change...the one back offense, two tight ends, the H back as well as offensive motion, movement...and adapt to try and stop Taylor. As Parcells noted, before Taylor, you put a RB or FB on a LB to block him. You could not do that with Taylor and so we saw not only the aforementioned changes but the changes in which offensive tackles now use a two point stance in pass protection with their outside foot back, off the line. Taylor, by his play, forced all these changes and that is the mark of a generational or truly great player...one who forces the game to change.

You cannot in any way compare Donald or any defensive player since to LT. Donald is a great player, yes, but he has, in no way, shape or form, changed the way the game is played.

a defense where you had to choose one player to play all 11 positions. Imagine a defense where LT played every position. The utter chaos on passing downs. Or an all LT coverage on a punt, or a kickoff. Players would want to quit.

Best way I can put it. He was/is the Secretariat of football players ! No one even close. End of story !

of every offense he ever played against. Every team's #1 priority when they played the Giants was to neutralize Lawrence Taylor, and they couldn't do it no matter what they threw at him. Double teams, two TE base offenses, running the ball at him, none of it mattered.

In comment 14280703 Sean said:

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that he referred to the Jets as “another organization”.... when asked about his relationship with Parcells he said they worked together with the Giants, Patriots & another organization.

That's like in the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary "The Two Bills" when they ask at the end if they want to go to the Jet's locker room. Both laughed out loud and said something like, "Why would we ever want to do that?"

In comment 14280663 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

Quote:

But then I decided to try and learn/watch more of all-time NFL defensive players. I realized that I personally had underrated LT. People pigeonhole him with the pass rusher label which is simply unfair. There were better pure pass rushers than him. The bigger guys like Reggie, Deacon, Watt, etc. LT was/is the only player in NFL history who was the best in space and at the LOS at the same time for his defense. Check out the Goaline highlight mix of LT that I’ve linked. He played “deep safety” at the GL plenty of times because he had the most sideline-to-sideline tackling ability of any player on his D. His most impressive skill was his ability to run across the field to make plays due to his athleticism, speed, and power for his size. LT would have made the HOF easily as a pure MLB and could’ve made it as a run stopping SS based on his speed. There’s no other “next LT” 34 OLB that could think about making the HOF as a SS. Von comes closest but his speed is much more reliant on short bursts. As great of a pure interior pass rusher as Donald is, LTs ability to dominate across all levels of the field is why it’s doubtful we’ll ever see a better defensive player than LT for a while. LT at the GL - ( New Window )

1. His instincts are uncanny
2. He hits you, you're stopped dead in your tracks

I have ever seen.

looking back at some of the footage and interviews to see just how much attention was paid to him:

Quote:

LT did what he did while being the absolute focus of every game plan Greg from LI : 9:01 am : link : reply of every offense he ever played against. Every team's #1 priority when they played the Giants was to neutralize Lawrence Taylor, and they couldn't do it no matter what they threw at him. Double teams, two TE base offenses, running the ball at him, none of it mattered.

Outside of teh Cards, the rest of the NFC East was pretty strong, yet LT left coaches from that Era shaking their heads. The Redskins would double-team him AND chip him, which was the closest thing one could do to come up with a triple team. Trams would line up a blocking TE, and LT would just move to a different area pre-snap.

One of my favorite clips was Jaworski not realizing LT had gone to the sideline, using a timeout because he couldn't find him. The audio on that is awesome:

(sounding like a whining child) "Where is he? Where is he? Timeout! Timeout! Timeout!!

was not only the best Giant, he's the best defensive player of all time. There was literally nothing he could not do at a top level. And he was never dirty, he just beat the hell out of teams.

John Madden in the 1980s as a broadcaster had said that he never believed that a defensive player could win a football game by himself, but LT was the first one he saw do that.

And further fun fact, the reason why teams gave their best defensive player #56 was because of LT. It was basically known that if you wore #56, you were considered the best linebacker on your team.

Terry Tate, Office Linebacker from years ago. What number was he wearing? It wasn't a coincidence.

when LT played. I miss those years. Football was fun and violent. He was the best ever.

Anyone who thinks anyone was better than LT, didn't see LT or never watched football.

Sometimes it was like LT was driving a car around he field.

all that matters is how Tecmo Super Bowl saw your player. There was Bo Jackson on offense. LT on defense. Everyone else was several notches below. That was accurate.

But then maybe it was that reckless abandon that was as much part of his greatness.


You don't really here him refereed by it much anymore but there was a reason many called him Superman back then.

In comment 14280783 steve in ky said:

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But then maybe it was that reckless abandon that was as much part of his greatness

Both played a role, no doubt. LT never bothered with training in the offseason, and he put his body through more punishment than most players would ever dream of doing. He played with zero regard for his own well being, which is why his career was relatively short compared to some other greats.

and think you old-timers are full of beans. I totally get what you are feeling. I also think it would be hard to believe how bad it was to be a Giant fan in the 70's. Some things you just have to witness to fully comprehend.

In comment 14280790 wgenesis123 said:

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and think you old-timers are full of beans. I totally get what you are feeling. I also think it would be hard to believe how bad it was to be a Giant fan in the 70's. Some things you just have to witness to fully comprehend.

Yes, two things that had to be witnessed to fully appreciate, but I would add most of the 60's to that along with the 70's. It was a long era of epic losing. Which brings is back to LT. Not sure a lesser player could have help lead the team out of that losing culture. He more than anything help shed that stench from the team.

In comment 14280790 wgenesis123 said:

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and think you old-timers are full of beans. I totally get what you are feeling. I also think it would be hard to believe how bad it was to be a Giant fan in the 70's. Some things you just have to witness to fully comprehend.

They can watch the linked video and just prepare to be amazed.

There's never been anyone like Lawrence Taylor, and probably never will.
Link - ( New Window )

difficult for there to be another LT for a variety of reasons.

One of the most predominant is the rules in place today. A lot of hits were brutal. Completely clean at the time, but would likely draw flags today.

The other aspect is that there is more of an influence of mobile QB's.

A third is the overall evolution on the offensive side of the ball. Most systems today have built-in checks and balances to account for one player - even an excellent one. LT was amazing. He could play the role of a spy on a running QB - he could be a ferocious pass rusher. He could cover TE's. He could stop the run and chase down misdirection plays. That combination of size, speed and football IQ will be hard to find again - as well as being able to play within the rules of the game.

He changed the way offenses played to account for dominant forces on the edge, rushing the passer or defending the run. He created the whole Left Tackle mystique. He increased the use of the short drop and quick release. The only offense that had repeated success in the LT era was the West Coast Offense. He created many careers for Bill Walshes tree.

But more subtley and profoundly, the NFL compettion committee has gradually put in rule after rule after rule to protect and promote the passing game. All off these, intentionally or not, are designed to stop someone like LT from dominating a game. The only defensive player who came close was Ray Lewis.

It's now Brady's game

Ray Lewis was a product of a system designed to keep him clean so he could clean up. LT was his own system.

out their mouths.. stop asking Belichick about LT.

LT.

The best there is.
The best there was.
The best there ever will be.

the QB's he does a good job of staying in the strike zone. He does not go helmet to helmet but some hits are pretty close. Probably get a flag today. When he goes low he tends to tackle at the waist. The hits that would be most questionable today is when he grabs a QB and tosses them around like a rag doll. I would be interested to hear a Refs opinion of his hits.

No bullshit sack dances. Just wrecks the game, high fives his teammates and gets back to work.

Mike Mayock makes a Giants cameo on the play vs. the Chiefs getting wiped out by #75.

In comment 14280673 Giant John said:

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Brady fired up?

Ha! You might be on to something here. And that’s why Hoodie is the greatest coach ever.

It actually made sense at the time because no one had ever seen a player like LT. I think it was the Redskins who had the first pick but not sure. The coach said that they would control the number of time a RB can get the ball so if they wanted to give Rogers the ball 40 times a game, they could do it. Conversely, if LT or any defensive player was playing on one side of the field, they could neutralize that player by going to the other side of the field or doubleteaming the player. Obviously, LT changed the dynamics of the game because he was fast to get to the other side of the field and strong enough to beat the doubleteam.

LT played for North Carolina and (I think) was never on televsion in the Northeast so almost no one saw him in college. There was a DE/LB sort of edge rusher coming out that year, Hugh Green from Pittsburgh who was a very good pass rusher at about 220 pounds. Alot of us were hoping he would be the pick because Pitt was on tv alot. But, when I read that Taylor was about 240 pounds and taller and faster and stronger than Green, it was like ok. The first time any Giants fan saw him play, it was the ultimate holy crap moment. You took one look at him on the field and knew he was special and that's when the team had Harry Carson and some other very good LBs. He changed the game in a way no one else had.

In comment 14280984 Samiam said:

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It actually made sense at the time because no one had ever seen a player like LT. I think it was the Redskins who had the first pick but not sure. The coach said that they would control the number of time a RB can get the ball so if they wanted to give Rogers the ball 40 times a game, they could do it. Conversely, if LT or any defensive player was playing on one side of the field, they could neutralize that player by going to the other side of the field or doubleteaming the player. Obviously, LT changed the dynamics of the game because he was fast to get to the other side of the field and strong enough to beat the doubleteam. LT played for North Carolina and (I think) was never on televsion in the Northeast so almost no one saw him in college. There was a DE/LB sort of edge rusher coming out that year, Hugh Green from Pittsburgh who was a very good pass rusher at about 220 pounds. Alot of us were hoping he would be the pick because Pitt was on tv alot. But, when I read that Taylor was about 240 pounds and taller and faster and stronger than Green, it was like ok. The first time any Giants fan saw him play, it was the ultimate holy crap moment. You took one look at him on the field and knew he was special and that's when the team had Harry Carson and some other very good LBs. He changed the game in a way no one else had.

New Orleans had the first pick. And Rogers was a really great player. He just wasn't LT. Dumbest pick in NFL history.

In comment 14280994 baadbill said:

Quote:

In comment 14280984 Samiam said: Quote: It actually made sense at the time because no one had ever seen a player like LT. I think it was the Redskins who had the first pick but not sure. The coach said that they would control the number of time a RB can get the ball so if they wanted to give Rogers the ball 40 times a game, they could do it. Conversely, if LT or any defensive player was playing on one side of the field, they could neutralize that player by going to the other side of the field or doubleteaming the player. Obviously, LT changed the dynamics of the game because he was fast to get to the other side of the field and strong enough to beat the doubleteam. LT played for North Carolina and (I think) was never on televsion in the Northeast so almost no one saw him in college. There was a DE/LB sort of edge rusher coming out that year, Hugh Green from Pittsburgh who was a very good pass rusher at about 220 pounds. Alot of us were hoping he would be the pick because Pitt was on tv alot. But, when I read that Taylor was about 240 pounds and taller and faster and stronger than Green, it was like ok. The first time any Giants fan saw him play, it was the ultimate holy crap moment. You took one look at him on the field and knew he was special and that's when the team had Harry Carson and some other very good LBs. He changed the game in a way no one else had. New Orleans had the first pick. And Rogers was a really great player. He just wasn't LT. Dumbest pick in NFL history.

And the moment he took the field for his first NFL practice, he immediately became the best player in the entire NFL and it wasn't close (sorry Joe).

I thought our LB's were pretty good back then and
thought why take another . Once the season started early
on plays where the runner is being forced out of bounds
right before he is stepping out of bounds this
blur comes across the screen and blasted the Redskin runner
out of the frame I knew then this guy was special ..
he was frightening ..

They got George Rogers, who led the NFL with over 1600 yards as a rookie and it came at a time when RBs were a premium. And he was drafted by Bum Phillips, who had a good run in Houston with a guy who was a pretty good running back to say the least (Earl Campbell). That was Bum's vision at the time for the Saints.

And you know who the Saints got in the 2nd round in 1981? Rickey Jackson. Jackson was no LT, but he turned in a 6 time Pro Bowler at LB and made the Hall of Fame.

In comment 14281001 Matt in SGS said:

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They got George Rogers, who led the NFL with over 1600 yards as a rookie and it came at a time when RBs were a premium. And he was drafted by Bum Phillips, who had a good run in Houston with a guy who was a pretty good running back to say the least (Earl Campbell). That was Bum's vision at the time for the Saints. And you know who the Saints got in the 2nd round in 1981? Rickey Jackson. Jackson was no LT, but he turned in a 6 time Pro Bowler at LB and made the Hall of Fame.

Jackson was a force. New Orleans had a really great LB group. That game when LT wore a shoulder harness was a battle of great linebackers.

... he was a hell of a player.

the best player I've ever seen, too.

He was probably better than we all remember. I’m sure lots of the young bucks here who didn’t see LT in real time think us old timers are just being nostalgic and remembering LTs highlights and maybe even thinking that LT wouldn’t be as special in today’s NFL. But I really do believe LT was every bit as good and maybe even better than we remember. I just don’t remember any player before or since that was even close. He was so much better than everyone on the field. Incredible player.

In comment 14281025 trueblueinpw said:

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He was probably better than we all remember. I’m sure lots of the young bucks here who didn’t see LT in real time think us old timers are just being nostalgic and remembering LTs highlights and maybe even thinking that LT wouldn’t be as special in today’s NFL. But I really do believe LT was every bit as good and maybe even better than we remember. I just don’t remember any player before or since that was even close. He was so much better than everyone on the field. Incredible player.

LT was the best athlete I've ever seen... better than Ali, better than Jordan, better than Gretsky... better than Mantle... better than Montana or any other football player... I consider it one of the greatest things of my lifetime to have been graced to see every snap he played as a NY Giant

on youtube when LT was at UNC. He just explodes off the screen.

Weird seeing him back then as #98.
The Real LT - ( New Window )

In comment 14280771 Matt in SGS said:

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all that matters is how Tecmo Super Bowl saw your player. There was Bo Jackson on offense. LT on defense. Everyone else was several notches below. That was accurate.

LOL!! I think I had 73 sacks in one season with LT : )

I still have this game by the way! Kills my fingers to play.

everyone was trying to find "the next LT". Keith McCants was drafted out of Alabama as #1 overall and he turned into a bust and put on weight to play DE.

The closest was probably Derrick Thomas from the Chiefs. But Thomas was a pure speed rusher (though he was great at it). But he wasn't the overall player LT was. In coverage he was maybe slightly above average. He was average at best against the run. LT was able to do it all at such a high level. And teams were left with the choice that they didn't want in order to run. They had to run right at him. That's because LT would just chase the play down the line and get the runner from behind. And Banks was the best strongside linebacker in the NFL and would stuff TEs.

Otherwise, I think only Andre Tippett belongs in shouting distance of LT. He was a monster in New England (and wore #56 to boot).

was a damn good edge rushing LB.

In comment 14281064 Matt in SGS said:

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everyone was trying to find "the next LT". Keith McCants was drafted out of Alabama as #1 overall and he turned into a bust and put on weight to play DE. The closest was probably Derrick Thomas from the Chiefs. But Thomas was a pure speed rusher (though he was great at it). But he wasn't the overall player LT was. In coverage he was maybe slightly above average. He was average at best against the run. LT was able to do it all at such a high level. And teams were left with the choice that they didn't want in order to run. They had to run right at him. That's because LT would just chase the play down the line and get the runner from behind. And Banks was the best strongside linebacker in the NFL and would stuff TEs. Otherwise, I think only Andre Tippett belongs in shouting distance of LT. He was a monster in New England (and wore #56 to boot).

For one of the few times, I strongly disagree with you. NO ONE was within shouting distance of LT, as terrific as they were

Would the Giants have drafted LT if there was social media in 1981?

If the Giants knew that LT came with all his off the field baggage would they have passed on him?

from the GOAT coach.

In comment 14281089 Archer said:

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Would the Giants have drafted LT if there was social media in 1981? If the Giants knew that LT came with all his off the field baggage would they have passed on him?

Is there evidence there was baggage prior to the draft that would warrant passing on him? I don't recall any.

In comment 14281068 bw in dc said:

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was a damn good edge rushing LB.

One of my favorite LT stories and Parcells came in 1989 before the Rams playoff game. Parcells told LT to get some plane tickets and fly to New Orleans to trade jerseys with Swilling. LT had problems getting to Jim Everett and their left tackle Irv Pankey. Swilling had gotten 3 sacks in a game vs. the Rams earlier in the year. That pissed off LT enough that he got 2 sacks early in the "Flipper game", including one which forced a fumble inside the Giants 10 yard line that stopped a scoring drive when Reasons recovered it. That game still pisses me off, if Simms didn't throw that pick before the half we never even hear about Flipper.

In comment 14281070 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 14281064 Matt in SGS said: Quote: everyone was trying to find "the next LT". Keith McCants was drafted out of Alabama as #1 overall and he turned into a bust and put on weight to play DE. The closest was probably Derrick Thomas from the Chiefs. But Thomas was a pure speed rusher (though he was great at it). But he wasn't the overall player LT was. In coverage he was maybe slightly above average. He was average at best against the run. LT was able to do it all at such a high level. And teams were left with the choice that they didn't want in order to run. They had to run right at him. That's because LT would just chase the play down the line and get the runner from behind. And Banks was the best strongside linebacker in the NFL and would stuff TEs. Otherwise, I think only Andre Tippett belongs in shouting distance of LT. He was a monster in New England (and wore #56 to boot). For one of the few times, I strongly disagree with you. NO ONE was within shouting distance of LT, as terrific as they were

It's a long shout ;)

In comment 14281097 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

In comment 14281068 bw in dc said: Quote: was a damn good edge rushing LB. One of my favorite LT stories and Parcells came in 1989 before the Rams playoff game. Parcells told LT to get some plane tickets and fly to New Orleans to trade jerseys with Swilling. LT had problems getting to Jim Everett and their left tackle Irv Pankey. Swilling had gotten 3 sacks in a game vs. the Rams earlier in the year. That pissed off LT enough that he got 2 sacks early in the "Flipper game", including one which forced a fumble inside the Giants 10 yard line that stopped a scoring drive when Reasons recovered it. That game still pisses me off, if Simms didn't throw that pick before the half we never even hear about Flipper.

I am familiar with that.

That Flipper Game still stings to this day. Brutal loss. Not sure we could have beaten the 9ers that year, but that would have been a better match-up than how the Rams got crushed the following week...

In comment 14281098 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

In comment 14281070 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: In comment 14281064 Matt in SGS said: Quote: everyone was trying to find "the next LT". Keith McCants was drafted out of Alabama as #1 overall and he turned into a bust and put on weight to play DE. The closest was probably Derrick Thomas from the Chiefs. But Thomas was a pure speed rusher (though he was great at it). But he wasn't the overall player LT was. In coverage he was maybe slightly above average. He was average at best against the run. LT was able to do it all at such a high level. And teams were left with the choice that they didn't want in order to run. They had to run right at him. That's because LT would just chase the play down the line and get the runner from behind. And Banks was the best strongside linebacker in the NFL and would stuff TEs. Otherwise, I think only Andre Tippett belongs in shouting distance of LT. He was a monster in New England (and wore #56 to boot). For one of the few times, I strongly disagree with you. NO ONE was within shouting distance of LT, as terrific as they were It's a long shout ;)

😂😂

In comment 14281116 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 14281097 Matt in SGS said: Quote: In comment 14281068 bw in dc said: Quote: was a damn good edge rushing LB. One of my favorite LT stories and Parcells came in 1989 before the Rams playoff game. Parcells told LT to get some plane tickets and fly to New Orleans to trade jerseys with Swilling. LT had problems getting to Jim Everett and their left tackle Irv Pankey. Swilling had gotten 3 sacks in a game vs. the Rams earlier in the year. That pissed off LT enough that he got 2 sacks early in the "Flipper game", including one which forced a fumble inside the Giants 10 yard line that stopped a scoring drive when Reasons recovered it. That game still pisses me off, if Simms didn't throw that pick before the half we never even hear about Flipper. I am familiar with that. That Flipper Game still stings to this day. Brutal loss. Not sure we could have beaten the 9ers that year, but that would have been a better match-up than how the Rams got crushed the following week...

The Rams to us was akin to Norton vs Ali

In comment 14281096 steve in ky said:

Quote:

In comment 14281089 Archer said: Quote: Would the Giants have drafted LT if there was social media in 1981? If the Giants knew that LT came with all his off the field baggage would they have passed on him? Is there evidence there was baggage prior to the draft that would warrant passing on him? I don't recall any.

Same here. I do not recall any baggage with LT coming out of UNC.

Criticism was he couldn't cover, the absolute biggest line of bullshit ever to be said about a player, he didn't drop back much into coverage for the obvious reasons, he took up 2 and sometimes 3 players even when he didn't reach the QB. Let me know the play you saw him miss a tackle, there is one, the game against the Cowboys, opening day when he was too tired to make a play because he sat out of training camp and the pre season games. He was the best, the two non QB's to make an argument for are Jim Brown, which is legit, and Jerry rice, which is total bullshit, a wide receiver simply can not have the impact of a LT or Jim Brown.

In comment 14281016 baadbill said:

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... he was a hell of a player.

I've seen the Saints LB corps of that era, as a group, ranked above both the Giants' and Bears' LB corps, and all three were awesome, all time great LB corps.

Giants - LT, Carson, Banks and Reasons
Bears - Singletary, Marshall, Wilson
Saints - Jackson, Mills, Vaughn Johnson, and Pat Swilling

Link to 10 greatest LB corps below includes Packers, Chiefs with Lanier, Bell Lynch, Steelers from 2 different eras (a stretch IMO), Broncos' Orange Crush... I think it's from 10th to 1st, so the Saints' group gets 1st place. Not sure about the ranking, if there even is one.
Best LB corps all time - ( New Window )

may have a chance over 10 years to be talked about in a similar way.

I believe went to Montclair St.

But any group with LT is #1 almost by default.

did go to Montclair St.

.

In comment 14280867 arniefez said:

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Ray Lewis was a product of a system designed to keep him clean so he could clean up. LT was his own system.

There's always one who thomrows Lewis in there. Great HOF level
Guy. Sure. But like Donald not close to the monster and influencer LT was

In comment 14281016 baadbill said:

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... he was a hell of a player.

Montclair St. Not Rutgers

who saw him as another Earl Campbell. Even in 1981 with a less sophisticated draft industrial complex every other team in the NFL would have drafted LT first. Thankfully only the Saints picked in front of the Giants.

In comment 14280997 baadbill said:

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In comment 14280994 baadbill said: Quote: In comment 14280984 Samiam said: Quote: It actually made sense at the time because no one had ever seen a player like LT. I think it was the Redskins who had the first pick but not sure. The coach said that they would control the number of time a RB can get the ball so if they wanted to give Rogers the ball 40 times a game, they could do it. Conversely, if LT or any defensive player was playing on one side of the field, they could neutralize that player by going to the other side of the field or doubleteaming the player. Obviously, LT changed the dynamics of the game because he was fast to get to the other side of the field and strong enough to beat the doubleteam. LT played for North Carolina and (I think) was never on televsion in the Northeast so almost no one saw him in college. There was a DE/LB sort of edge rusher coming out that year, Hugh Green from Pittsburgh who was a very good pass rusher at about 220 pounds. Alot of us were hoping he would be the pick because Pitt was on tv alot. But, when I read that Taylor was about 240 pounds and taller and faster and stronger than Green, it was like ok. The first time any Giants fan saw him play, it was the ultimate holy crap moment. You took one look at him on the field and knew he was special and that's when the team had Harry Carson and some other very good LBs. He changed the game in a way no one else had. New Orleans had the first pick. And Rogers was a really great player. He just wasn't LT. Dumbest pick in NFL history. And the moment he took the field for his first NFL practice, he immediately became the best player in the entire NFL and it wasn't close (sorry Joe).

The reason Bum Phillips made Rogers the 1st pick was he was fixated with finding another Earl Campbell

IIRC he had compartment syndrome. It's not a Sam Bouie/Michael Jordan situation, he wasn't exactly a bust, but he was just another good back. LT was incomparable.

It's hard to grasp what LT was if you weren't around then. You can put together a great highlight reel and make a guy look like LT, but as others noted, he changed the way the game is played, permanently. You didn't just have to scheme for him, you had to invent new concepts for him.

If Aaron Donald forced teams to invent new formations, like passing out of something like punt formation (QB in shotgun, extra lineman playing "fullback," closer to the line than the QB, just to stop Donald from penetrating up the middle), and if those formations became a standard part of the league's offensive repertoire, then you could start to talk about Aaron Donald in the same breath as LT.

In comment 14281427 81_Great_Dane said:

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IIRC he had compartment syndrome. It's not a Sam Bouie/Michael Jordan situation, he wasn't exactly a bust, but he was just another good back. LT was incomparable. It's hard to grasp what LT was if you weren't around then. You can put together a great highlight reel and make a guy look like LT, but as others noted, he changed the way the game is played, permanently. You didn't just have to scheme for him, you had to invent new concepts for him. If Aaron Donald forced teams to invent new formations, like passing out of something like punt formation (QB in shotgun, extra lineman playing "fullback," closer to the line than the QB, just to stop Donald from penetrating up the middle), and if those formations became a standard part of the league's offensive repertoire, then you could start to talk about Aaron Donald in the same breath as LT.

And teams literally changed the body type of the OL they drafted all in an effort to try to block LT

to create the H-back position to help block him. The only other guy I know that caused the game to be played differently was wilt Chamberlain (widened the key twice).

In comment 14280740 Pete in MD said:

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In comment 14280703 Sean said: Quote: that he referred to the Jets as “another organization”.... when asked about his relationship with Parcells he said they worked together with the Giants, Patriots & another organization. That's like in the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary "The Two Bills" when they ask at the end if they want to go to the Jet's locker room. Both laughed out loud and said something like, "Why would we ever want to do that?"

Turns out the Jets had security guys at the ready if they ever tried it.

The Jets aren't a smart organization. But letting Bill Belichick into your locker room is akin to letting your sister date Ted Bundy.

In comment 14281579 Bill in TN said:

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to create the H-back position to help block him. The only other guy I know that caused the game to be played differently was wilt Chamberlain (widened the key twice).

LT was completely dominate for certain. Others have greatly contributed to changes in sport though such as Steelers Blount and the bump and run, and Bob Gibson and lowering the mound. To name a few...

In comment 14280801 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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difficult for there to be another LT for a variety of reasons. One of the most predominant is the rules in place today. A lot of hits were brutal. Completely clean at the time, but would likely draw flags today. The other aspect is that there is more of an influence of mobile QB's. A third is the overall evolution on the offensive side of the ball. Most systems today have built-in checks and balances to account for one player - even an excellent one. LT was amazing. He could play the role of a spy on a running QB - he could be a ferocious pass rusher. He could cover TE's. He could stop the run and chase down misdirection plays. That combination of size, speed and football IQ will be hard to find again - as well as being able to play within the rules of the game.

You know, I watched some highlights recently and focused a lot on the hits. I think most were technically clean even by today's standards, but the nastiness of them would probably still draw flags. But, he was not a guy who played dirty. There really weren't hits to the head, late hits, etc. The one thing that would get flagged are some of the plays where he flung the QB to the ground.

In comment 14288078 Matt M. said:

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In comment 14280801 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: difficult for there to be another LT for a variety of reasons. One of the most predominant is the rules in place today. A lot of hits were brutal. Completely clean at the time, but would likely draw flags today. The other aspect is that there is more of an influence of mobile QB's. A third is the overall evolution on the offensive side of the ball. Most systems today have built-in checks and balances to account for one player - even an excellent one. LT was amazing. He could play the role of a spy on a running QB - he could be a ferocious pass rusher. He could cover TE's. He could stop the run and chase down misdirection plays. That combination of size, speed and football IQ will be hard to find again - as well as being able to play within the rules of the game. You know, I watched some highlights recently and focused a lot on the hits. I think most were technically clean even by today's standards, but the nastiness of them would probably still draw flags. But, he was not a guy who played dirty. There really weren't hits to the head, late hits, etc. The one thing that would get flagged are some of the plays where he flung the QB to the ground.

And a couple of more points. Even checking/accounting for him, he would still be unstoppable. The H-back, regularity of 2 TE sets, and other measures were put into place specifically for him. It really didn't matter if you put an all-pro LT on him, doubled him with a TE, doubled him with another OL, chipped him, etc. He had a combination of speed and strength never seen before or since. The man flung 300 lb. OL aside like rag dolls and then could run down a RB from behind on the opposite side of the field.

As for the speed and IQ, he could cover WRs, not just TEs and RBs. But, the instincts were amazing. He was not known for his desire to practice or studying of the playbook. But, he supposedly was able to diagnose plays on demand in the film room, recall whatever was asked, and on the field always seem to make the right play.