for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Barnwell: Giants on the wrong end of 3 of the "best" trades

NoGainDayne : 1/30/2019 1:48 pm
Barnwell is one of the better NFL writers IMO. This article is all about value, what was given up vs. what it provided.

Giants were the giver of assets in the 8th, 10th and 14th best trades for the teams they dealt with this year.

For fair summary reporting they also had the 29th best trade of the season.

Just reporting the facts here but objectively not what anyone wants to see written in regards to their front office.
2018 NFL trade grades: The 30 most impactful of the past 365 days - ( New Window )
Pages: 1 2 | Show All |  Next>>
Really dont care too much about that kind of stuff  
gmen9892 : 1/30/2019 1:53 pm : link
To be honest. Two of the trades were salary dumps (JPP and Harrison) that returned draft picks and cap relief. You arent going to get the better of those deals for the most part.

Eli Apple was not a good player here and while he played better once he changed scenery, I am still very glad he is gone. He was part of the problem here, not the solution.
You really can't evaluate..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/30/2019 1:57 pm : link
trades that haven't even produced the other asset yet.
RE: You really can't evaluate..  
BamaBlue : 1/30/2019 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14281175 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
trades that haven't even produced the other asset yet.


The quality of sports journalism is reflected by the number of thoughtless puff pieces void of any analysis. This is a good example of 'seat of the pants' sports journalism.
RE: You really can't evaluate..  
gmen9892 : 1/30/2019 2:02 pm : link
In comment 14281175 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
trades that haven't even produced the other asset yet.


Agreed. The JPP trade has already produced BJ Hill and Lauletta aside from the salary dump. No clue what they are going to do with the picks accrued from the Harrison and Apple trades yet.
You want to gripe about the Ogletree deal, fine...  
Chris684 : 1/30/2019 2:06 pm : link
But I have a hard time saying the Giants "lost" trades when when everyone knows most of them were cases of addition by subtraction. Whether it was because of scheme fit/salary in JPP's case or locker room malcontent and/or aging veteran with Apple and Snacks.



How can you grade trades  
giants#1 : 1/30/2019 2:13 pm : link
involving draft picks after 1 season or in some of these cases, before the picks are even made?

JPP had nice sack #s, but the TB defense was still awful with him. Plus BJ Hill looked solid, especially for a 3rd round pick and is much cheaper going forward.

While Hill probably doesn't match JPP's sack production over the next 1-2 years, I think there's a solid chance he'll be a more productive overall player and almost certainly a better value.
RE: RE: You really can't evaluate..  
NoGainDayne : 1/30/2019 2:15 pm : link
In comment 14281181 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14281175 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


trades that haven't even produced the other asset yet.



The quality of sports journalism is reflected by the number of thoughtless puff pieces void of any analysis. This is a good example of 'seat of the pants' sports journalism.


How is this void of analysis?

"The Saints allowed a passer rating of 92.7 with Apple on the field, a mark that fell to 111.5 when Apple was on the sidelines."

"JPP netted the Bucs their best single season from an edge rusher in more than a decade."

"Before acquiring Harrison, the Lions were allowing opposing teams to average 5.3 yards per carry and convert 25.5 percent of their runs into first downs. After getting Snacks away from the Giants, though, Matt Patricia's defense allowed just 3.0 yards per carry and first downs just 15.4 percent of the time while Harrison was on the field. The 30-year-old tackle even chipped in with 3.5 sacks and seven knockdowns."

Dayne...  
BamaBlue : 1/30/2019 2:19 pm : link
analysis is not one point of view. In the cases you provided, those are the contributions of the Giants players that were traded. What is missing is the analysis of those contributions on the other side of the trades... what did the Giants gain?
I'm not saying I agree, but for those who do then Gettleman had  
pjcas18 : 1/30/2019 2:20 pm : link
3 of the worst trades and 2 of the worst free agent signings.

At least he had a good draft (unless you're one of the QB or nothing zealots).

Well the #s regarding JPP  
giants#1 : 1/30/2019 2:22 pm : link
I'm guessing only look at his sacks. How was he the rest of the time? And if he was such a stud, why was their team D so awful?

re: Snacks - key phrase was "while he was on the field". Aside from any locker room issues he might've been, I think part of the issue is he was only on the field for ~50% of the D snaps and trending the wrong way.

re: Apple - what are league average passer ratings againts numbers? Was he the only thing that changed or did they get some other players healthy and/or change their offensive philosophy to try and use more time (didn't Ingram return around then?)?
who cares  
blueblood : 1/30/2019 2:24 pm : link
they are gone.. Apple sucks. We all know it. Snacks is a 2 down player who is on the wrong side of 30 with bad knees and JPP is a shell of the 2011 player at way too much money.

The cap relief of those three alont is worth it to me.
It isn't void..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/30/2019 2:28 pm : link
of analysis. It really is a piece though that can't have much teeth since it doesn't even know what a lot of the trades are receiving in return.

He doesn't even mention BJ Hill in the JPP trade, and while Snacks is given a glowing write-up even though he freely admits the Lions D stayed terrible, Ogletree produced two "short-term" pick 6's which he guesses was fun while it lasted.
It's funny  
Pete in MD : 1/30/2019 2:30 pm : link
how the Ogletree trade doesn't use any advanced player-specific analytics but the other NYG-related trades do. He uses DVOA so I will too:

TB: 32nd without JPP, 32nd with him.
Det: 19th without Snacks, 27th with him (for part of the season.)
NO: 8th without Apple, 11th with him (also only part of the season.)
NYG: 24th last season, 24th this season.

So using the same Ogletree logic, losing Snacks and Apple had the same lack of impact as adding AO did.
RE: It's funny  
NoGainDayne : 1/30/2019 2:33 pm : link
In comment 14281209 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
how the Ogletree trade doesn't use any advanced player-specific analytics but the other NYG-related trades do. He uses DVOA so I will too:

TB: 32nd without JPP, 32nd with him.
Det: 19th without Snacks, 27th with him (for part of the season.)
NO: 8th without Apple, 11th with him (also only part of the season.)
NYG: 24th last season, 24th this season.

So using the same Ogletree logic, losing Snacks and Apple had the same lack of impact as adding AO did.


So it is your position that the best way to evaluate an individual defender is on team defense?
I really don't get the need to turn on an excellent player  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/30/2019 2:34 pm : link
and make him out to be something he's not just to try to make a trade seem more appetizing.

Harrison is elite as his position, he missed zero games as a Giant, and he just now turned 30. If being 30 is a crime, then why the hell are we crying tears over not signing a 35 year old tackle in the other thread like it's a mortal sin.





RE: RE: It's funny  
giants#1 : 1/30/2019 2:40 pm : link
In comment 14281214 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 14281209 Pete in MD said:


Quote:


how the Ogletree trade doesn't use any advanced player-specific analytics but the other NYG-related trades do. He uses DVOA so I will too:

TB: 32nd without JPP, 32nd with him.
Det: 19th without Snacks, 27th with him (for part of the season.)
NO: 8th without Apple, 11th with him (also only part of the season.)
NYG: 24th last season, 24th this season.

So using the same Ogletree logic, losing Snacks and Apple had the same lack of impact as adding AO did.



So it is your position that the best way to evaluate an individual defender is on team defense?


I think he was simply pointing out that Barnwell used team D to knock Ogletree, but then looked at (cherry picked) individual performance for JPP, Snacks, Apple.
RE: RE: It's funny  
Pete in MD : 1/30/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14281214 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 14281209 Pete in MD said:


Quote:


how the Ogletree trade doesn't use any advanced player-specific analytics but the other NYG-related trades do. He uses DVOA so I will too:

TB: 32nd without JPP, 32nd with him.
Det: 19th without Snacks, 27th with him (for part of the season.)
NO: 8th without Apple, 11th with him (also only part of the season.)
NYG: 24th last season, 24th this season.

So using the same Ogletree logic, losing Snacks and Apple had the same lack of impact as adding AO did.



So it is your position that the best way to evaluate an individual defender is on team defense?

Nope, I'm pointing out the flaws in the author's evaluation. Ogletree was a bad trade because the Giants DVOA didn't improve but he cherry-picks other stats to show why JPP, Apple, and Snacks were valuable pick-ups. Well, none of those team's DVOA improved either. They all are actually worse.
RE: It isn't void..  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/30/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14281206 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


while Snacks is given a glowing write-up even though he freely admits the Lions D stayed terrible


Their run defense was unquestionably better, by a significant margin.

Evan Silva

Verified account

@evansilva
Follow Follow @evansilva
More
#Lions allowed 5.99 yards per carry to RBs in Weeks 1-7.
Since acquiring Snacks Harrison, they've held RBs to 3.97 YPC.
Since acquiring Snacks, they've allowed 11.1 yards per pass attempt.
Before Snacks, they allowed 8.05 YPA.
Since acquiring Snacks, they're 0-3 & outsored 86-45.


Steve Cornell


@SteveCornell7
12 Nov 2018
More
Replying to @evansilva
Im a big fan Evan. Dont think Snacks makes Detroit 3 yards per pass worse over time. Sample size should be noted. Detroit is in a spiral right now.


Evan Silva

Verified account
@evansilva
12 Nov 2018
Correct. Lack of consistent pass rush & injuries in secondary are primarily to blame for opponent spike in yards per pass attempt.

Hammer does have a point...  
SHO'NUFF : 1/30/2019 2:41 pm : link
it's my opinion that we got hosed on the trades for Apple and Snacks, but it wasn't outright robbery. We were 1-7 and management gave up. When we made a little run for a moment, I bet management regretted the trades.
RE: RE: RE: It's funny  
Pete in MD : 1/30/2019 2:42 pm : link
In comment 14281225 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14281214 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


In comment 14281209 Pete in MD said:


Quote:


how the Ogletree trade doesn't use any advanced player-specific analytics but the other NYG-related trades do. He uses DVOA so I will too:

TB: 32nd without JPP, 32nd with him.
Det: 19th without Snacks, 27th with him (for part of the season.)
NO: 8th without Apple, 11th with him (also only part of the season.)
NYG: 24th last season, 24th this season.

So using the same Ogletree logic, losing Snacks and Apple had the same lack of impact as adding AO did.



So it is your position that the best way to evaluate an individual defender is on team defense?



I think he was simply pointing out that Barnwell used team D to knock Ogletree, but then looked at (cherry picked) individual performance for JPP, Snacks, Apple.

Or what giants#1 just said (I swear that's not my dupe.)
I'd bet a lot of money that no one in NYG higher ups  
Chris684 : 1/30/2019 2:44 pm : link
regretted the Snacks or Apple moves for a second.

Apple was a friggen headache.

Snacks was not considered to be a building block.

RE: I really don't get the need to turn on an excellent player  
giants#1 : 1/30/2019 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14281215 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
and make him out to be something he's not just to try to make a trade seem more appetizing.

Harrison is elite as his position, he missed zero games as a Giant, and he just now turned 30. If being 30 is a crime, then why the hell are we crying tears over not signing a 35 year old tackle in the other thread like it's a mortal sin.






Personally, I wasn't against not signing Whitworth. That said, not all 30 year olds are equal. IIRC, Snacks' snap counts have been trending downwards and he only played in ~50% of the games. So while he's top 5 at what he does, he only does that for half of the D snaps.

Stopping the run is generally not a highly sought after skill. You can argue whether that should change or not, but Snacks was elite in that regard when the Giants signed him and still didn't even get top 10 DT money. I don't think things have shifted since then much either since its becoming even more important for a D to get quick pressure, particularly up the middle with all the quick passing games around.
They can't all be awesome building blocks like Kareem Martin  
Greg from LI : 1/30/2019 2:46 pm : link
and Connor Barwin. That was some top-notch GMing there.
RE: RE: It isn't void..  
giants#1 : 1/30/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14281230 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14281206 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:




while Snacks is given a glowing write-up even though he freely admits the Lions D stayed terrible



Their run defense was unquestionably better, by a significant margin.

Evan Silva

Verified account

@evansilva
Follow Follow @evansilva
More
#Lions allowed 5.99 yards per carry to RBs in Weeks 1-7.
Since acquiring Snacks Harrison, they've held RBs to 3.97 YPC.
Since acquiring Snacks, they've allowed 11.1 yards per pass attempt.
Before Snacks, they allowed 8.05 YPA.
Since acquiring Snacks, they're 0-3 & outsored 86-45.


Steve Cornell


@SteveCornell7
12 Nov 2018
More
Replying to @evansilva
Im a big fan Evan. Dont think Snacks makes Detroit 3 yards per pass worse over time. Sample size should be noted. Detroit is in a spiral right now.


Evan Silva

Verified account
@evansilva
12 Nov 2018
Correct. Lack of consistent pass rush & injuries in secondary are primarily to blame for opponent spike in yards per pass attempt.


And their passing defense was unquestionably worse, by an even larger margin.
RE: I really don't get the need to turn on an excellent player  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/30/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14281215 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
and make him out to be something he's not just to try to make a trade seem more appetizing.

Harrison is elite as his position, he missed zero games as a Giant, and he just now turned 30. If being 30 is a crime, then why the hell are we crying tears over not signing a 35 year old tackle in the other thread like it's a mortal sin.






By some accounts Snacks was a locker room move. If you consider that he was a pain in the ass, not a leader, and also making a lot of money the move makes a lot of sense despite his talent.

The biggest moves they made were culture moves. I don't think I have to explain thus in regards to Apple and JPP.

When you look it becomes obvious, and I never really understood why it went over the heads of so many Giants fans. It was about dumping assholes.

RE: They can't all be awesome building blocks like Kareem Martin  
giants#1 : 1/30/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14281240 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
and Connor Barwin. That was some top-notch GMing there.


Barwin's not worth the handwringing.

Martin/Omameh/Stewart have to make you question DG though. Or the Giants pro-scouts if they recommended the former 2.
Being in the other side of trades where teams have helped themselves  
steve in ky : 1/30/2019 2:52 pm : link
doesn't automatically mean the team has hurt themselves.

Two teams can benefit from the same trade. Time will better tell how well the Giants benefited from the trades.
RE: RE: RE: It's funny  
NoGainDayne : 1/30/2019 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14281225 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14281214 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


In comment 14281209 Pete in MD said:


Quote:


how the Ogletree trade doesn't use any advanced player-specific analytics but the other NYG-related trades do. He uses DVOA so I will too:

TB: 32nd without JPP, 32nd with him.
Det: 19th without Snacks, 27th with him (for part of the season.)
NO: 8th without Apple, 11th with him (also only part of the season.)
NYG: 24th last season, 24th this season.

So using the same Ogletree logic, losing Snacks and Apple had the same lack of impact as adding AO did.



So it is your position that the best way to evaluate an individual defender is on team defense?



I think he was simply pointing out that Barnwell used team D to knock Ogletree, but then looked at (cherry picked) individual performance for JPP, Snacks, Apple.


I find it pretty funny that you are using the idea of cherry picking here. You are cherry picking an entire side (the Giants perspective) by essentially disavowing productive stays that these players had elsewhere.

Barnwell is a well respected writer, with no ax to grind. Explain it away all you want, and many here love to justify every move but this is not the kind of thing you want written about your team. The other thing that everyone seems to love to gloss over is that we have all these players labeled as "problems" that don't seem to be problems on other teams.
re: Snacks  
giants#1 : 1/30/2019 2:54 pm : link
I think there are multiple aspects to this, namely why the Giants moved them and secondly what they got in return.

As for the former, I think it was a combo of: a) his salary, b) his declining # of snaps, and c) the FO/coaching staff's views on Hill/Tomlinson. If they think Tomlinson is the NT answer going forward, then it made sense to increase his snaps there and get him as comfortable as possible in the position moving forward.

I think moving Snacks was more about the long term view of the team than short term (2018), which (IMO) was the correct decision at that point.

Pete's point..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/30/2019 2:57 pm : link
is fairly straightforward. Not sure how it is being missed.

For Snacks, Apple and JPP, he uses their personal stats to support that the trades were good for the Bucs, Lions and Saints. For Ogletree, he uses the Giants total defensive team stats to make the case he didn't have much of an impact, as well as a snarky comment about two pick 6's.

Scoring points seems to be something to mock.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It's funny  
giants#1 : 1/30/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14281254 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:



I find it pretty funny that you are using the idea of cherry picking here. You are cherry picking an entire side (the Giants perspective) by essentially disavowing productive stays that these players had elsewhere.

Barnwell is a well respected writer, with no ax to grind. Explain it away all you want, and many here love to justify every move but this is not the kind of thing you want written about your team. The other thing that everyone seems to love to gloss over is that we have all these players labeled as "problems" that don't seem to be problems on other teams.


I didn't disavow anyone's stats. But in terms of JPP in particular, how can he evaluate the trade without even discussing BJ Hill?

Of course the other deals will look lopsided, the Giants haven't even selected the players with those picks yet!

And as for players not being "problems" elsewhere, Snacks wasn't exactly known as a strong leader in the Jets locker room and the Giants got DRC "cheaply" because of his prior locker room issues. Who knows with Apple, he's only been with the Saints for half a season.

Stupidity  
PaulN : 1/30/2019 2:59 pm : link
At it's finest, evaluating trades right away is like evaluating organizations draft, but they do it and people listen and buy into it.
It's amazing  
Big Blue in MD : 1/30/2019 3:01 pm : link
how may of you truly don't understand football and have tunnel vision with regards to players brought in and shown the door. This article is not about losers in these trades but just about teams that made themselves better. Apple was a headache and sucked while here and allowed us to grab a 4 and 7th round pick that hopefully allows us to trade back into the third round. Was Ogletree great, no, but he led all LBers in INTs and his leadership is an intangible value that can't be measured as a fan. Bringing in Barwin/Martin were moves based on salary cap implications and a switch to a 3-4 D from the 4-3. We needed players that understood the D. Martin was with Betcher last season in AZ so it was a good fit.

The new regime was left with a mess and needed to be drastic. Some moves worked and some didn't, but it was the first year. How was the draft? One of the best we've seen in a long time. Let's see what happens this year. From my perspective, it was gonna take DG and PS 3 years to turn this around. the idea that they were going to the playoffs was a pipe dream and still is. I make the trek up to every home game from MD hoping, but not expecting miracles.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It's funny  
RinR : 1/30/2019 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14281254 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
The other thing that everyone seems to love to gloss over is that we have all these players labeled as "problems" that don't seem to be problems on other teams.


Maybe the change of scenery helped. Maybe those teams have a higher tolerance for locker room cancers. Could be other reasons as well. The fact that they our new GM decided to move on from them doesn't mean they weren't problems here.
Barnwell thinks something the Giants did sucks.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/30/2019 3:02 pm : link
BREAKING NEWS AT 11! He thinks that even as the parade is going down the Canyon of Heroes.
This article is written talking equally about all of these trades  
NoGainDayne : 1/30/2019 3:08 pm : link
many are not completed yet and involve draft picks. No one is being singled out.

All I said to begin was that objectively you'd rather not be on a list like this. You'd rather be written about on the good side of these trades or not at all.

Just a little more for the Gettleman crusaders to chew on. I'm personally not reading too much into it nor did I even say anything about him specifically.
I get the feeling that the OP is heavily influencing  
jhibb : 1/30/2019 3:14 pm : link
other posters' reactions to this piece.

The author clearly stated that he wasn't judging the trades with winners and losers, so there really isn't necessarily a "wrong end." And it is a list of the trades that have been the most impactful to this point, not the "best" trades.

Yes, he probably should have mentioned Hill in the JPP trade, but he's not going to talk about future draft picks as being impactful to this point.
He's not really putting the Giants on the "wrong" side of these trades  
Mad Mike : 1/30/2019 3:19 pm : link
He's acknowledging that the other teams benefited from the trades. But teams are in different situations, and one team benefiting, doesn't mean the trades didn't also make sense for the Giants, nor does Barnewell suggest the Giants came out poorly, or even comment on the return we got. He's simply commenting on the player acquired, without any judgement on the price received.

Also, he gives Detroit a B- for getting Snacks, and Tampa a B for JPP. It's hardly damming to be on the other side of grades like that.
As mentioned already  
Jeff : 1/30/2019 3:21 pm : link
The trades were as much about cleaning up the locker room and clearing cap space for the Giants. The JPP trade was a home run for the Giants and the other two were more addition by subtraction (salary and locker room). The writer is covering the whole league and looking at them from a 100 mile view as opposed to us Giant fans who are looking from a 100 foot view. Seems pretty cut and dry to me...also why cant a trade work out for both parties involved?
RE: He's not really putting the Giants on the  
NoGainDayne : 1/30/2019 3:33 pm : link
In comment 14281296 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
He's acknowledging that the other teams benefited from the trades. But teams are in different situations, and one team benefiting, doesn't mean the trades didn't also make sense for the Giants, nor does Barnewell suggest the Giants came out poorly, or even comment on the return we got. He's simply commenting on the player acquired, without any judgement on the price received.

Also, he gives Detroit a B- for getting Snacks, and Tampa a B for JPP. It's hardly damming to be on the other side of grades like that.


Sure but you'd probably like to get a higher return than that Giants got given the fact that the players had high impact. Especially on the Snacks and Apple deal.

It also it very easy to blame a number of players for being bad Apples so to speak but if your team has many of them it is more likely a culture problem.
RE: RE: He's not really putting the Giants on the  
giants#1 : 1/30/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14281308 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 14281296 Mad Mike said:


Quote:


He's acknowledging that the other teams benefited from the trades. But teams are in different situations, and one team benefiting, doesn't mean the trades didn't also make sense for the Giants, nor does Barnewell suggest the Giants came out poorly, or even comment on the return we got. He's simply commenting on the player acquired, without any judgement on the price received.

Also, he gives Detroit a B- for getting Snacks, and Tampa a B for JPP. It's hardly damming to be on the other side of grades like that.



Sure but you'd probably like to get a higher return than that Giants got given the fact that the players had high impact. Especially on the Snacks and Apple deal.

It also it very easy to blame a number of players for being bad Apples so to speak but if your team has many of them it is more likely a culture problem.


So you think it was smart to sign Stewart, Omameh, Barwin, etc.? :-)
That trade by the Pats to get...  
bw in dc : 1/30/2019 3:40 pm : link
Trent Brown was an absolute thing of beauty.

Let's see - sign 30 year old Nate Solder to a gazillion dollars or give up a 3rd rounder for a very competent Trent Brown? Hmmmmm.

Like most of the rest of the league, the Giants play checkers.
RE: That trade by the Pats to get...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/30/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14281318 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Trent Brown was an absolute thing of beauty.

Let's see - sign 30 year old Nate Solder to a gazillion dollars or give up a 3rd rounder for a very competent Trent Brown? Hmmmmm.

Like most of the rest of the league, the Giants play checkers.


Do you honestly believe Trent Brown would've been "competent" on the Giants? This is a coaching league. Brown gets coached up by a great HC and OL coach, then has his weaknesses limited in an offense where the ball comes out of the QB's hand immediately. I'm fairly certain he would've looked like Ereck Flowers' twin brother on the Giants.
Trent Brown  
Go Terps : 1/30/2019 4:07 pm : link
He might not have been as good on the Giants, because yes, they are a poorly coached team. But he certainly would've cost less than Solder.

I think Gettleman did a really poor job in year one, but trading away Harrison and Apple weren't bad moves. If anything he should have gone farther with the trades.
So whats Barnwells angle here?  
The_Boss : 1/30/2019 4:16 pm : link
That DG got railroaded on the trade front?

Would we have been better off continuing to watch Apple, seemingly the only Ohio State DB to suck in the pros, blow cock here and Snacks be a locker room cancer?

They had to go.
the arguing over crap players traded v crap attitude players traded  
giantsFC : 1/30/2019 4:49 pm : link
is priceless on here today.

super slow sports month for NY. and its obvious.
Nobody's  
Pete in MD : 1/30/2019 4:50 pm : link
blindly defending DG about every decision he made but I can't really find fault in most of his trades, two were good, two were iffy but I can see why they were made.

JPP-overpaid, didn't fit the system, not the best attitude. And in true JPP form, he accumulated stats but didn't make his new team any better.

Apple- Over-drafted JAG with a bad attitude and maturity issues. They actually ate his salary from a cap standpoint to be rid of him. He'll be out of the NFL in two years.

Snacks - Best in the biz at stuffing the run, I didn't like the trade but the team was going nowhere, they have younger players that play the same position, he has a big contract, and was apparently a bad locker room guy. I would have liked more for him in return.

Tree- One of the better players on a bad defense. Apparently a natural leader but he has a big contract and might be playing out of position, according to some.
Anyone who thinks Ogletree is part of the solution  
arniefez : 1/30/2019 5:20 pm : link
and an above average ILB has no idea what they're watching. He was horrible for the Rams in 2017 he was just as horrible for the Giants in 2018.

I don't think  
English Alaister : 1/30/2019 5:32 pm : link
The trades we made are particularly unbalanced.

Harrison is a fine player but he wasn't playing well when traded and was due a ton of money. He does have knee problems to boot. I'm not sure Detroit will get a second good year from him.

Apple is probably the one we can look really stupid on but Landon Collins described him as a cancer and lets be honest there probably was fire where there was smoke. I don't think he's a guy you can pay $ to.

JPP I'm good with. He was a poor fit for a 3-4 and Hill looks like a real building block.

Ogletree played well, led in the locker room and made several impact plays. He is well paid though too.

Overall I think you can see that no team massively improved or declined in the big picture. With 3 draft picks to come I think there's a decent chance we come out ahead.
RE: That trade by the Pats to get...  
Jay on the Island : 1/30/2019 5:36 pm : link
In comment 14281318 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Trent Brown was an absolute thing of beauty.

Let's see - sign 30 year old Nate Solder to a gazillion dollars or give up a 3rd rounder for a very competent Trent Brown? Hmmmmm.

Like most of the rest of the league, the Giants play checkers.

You make it sounds like Trent Brown was a sure thing. Brown had weight and injury issues prior to arriving in NE. He had also only played RT in SF. He was acquired to serve as depth originally but moved over to LT after Wynn went on IR. He was also learning from one of the best OL coaches ever.
Pages: 1 2 | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner