Jon Ledyard (@LedyardNFLDraft)
1/30/19, 12:42 PM
After extensive tape study, I cannot plant my flag on the Dwayne Haskins mountain.
He does some things well as a young passer, but the concerns are too significant for me to be excited about him as a franchise signal caller
2019 NFL DRAFT PLAYER PROFILE: DWAYNE HASKINS
https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/30/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-dwayne-haskins/
Dan Schneier (@DanSchneierNFL)
1/30/19, 2:24 PM
Have to best honest w/ Giants fans here who are chomping at the bit for a new QB: I have concerns too w/ Haskins. Rewatching the PSU and Purdue games were troubling. His slow feet are probably my biggest concern. Risky. Jon does a great job diving a bit deeper. Check it out:
Dan Schneier (@DanSchneierNFL)
1/30/19, 2:27 PM
You're not crazy. He's not a slam-dunk QB prospect. This is what happens to a fanbase of a team in QB hell. They have to push sometimes and convince themsleves of things that may or may not be there. The more I watch this class, the only who genuinely excites me is Kyler Murray
Dan Schneier (@DanSchneierNFL)
1/30/19, 2:29 PM
From a clean pocket, I like what I've seen from an accuracy standpoint. Unfortunately, not every pocket will be clean for him -- especially not on the Giants -- the footwork under pressure and then when asked to escape and create is what scares me. Will have to project w/ him
Dan Schneier (@DanSchneierNFL)
1/30/19, 2:30 PM
Agreed but I do think that having slow feet, esp under pressure, is one of those things that is harder to improve on. That was one of those traits Giants fans told me Davis Webb would easily improve when they told me why the team shouldn't draft Darnold/Rosen last year
Dan Schneier (@DanSchneierNFL)
1/30/19, 3:01 PM
All year Giants fans talked about moving on from the Eli type of QB who struggles with escaping the pocket, creating off script taking sacks etc. Dwayne Haskins won't exactly eliminate these things fans complained about most. His intermediate accuracy could make up for it though
In terms of improving as season progressed:
Dan Schneier (@DanSchneierNFL)
1/30/19, 3:08 PM
He does, but he also isn't faced with any kind of crazy difficult situation at any point. I didn't feel like he was under duress as much as I would have hoped to see/expected vs. UM or UW. Both games, when he was, his ability to make a play off script wasn't what I hoped to seE
Dan Schneier (@DanSchneierNFL)
1/30/19, 3:03 PM
Just on the scheme. I think the best fit for Shurmur's scheme is a player who fits more of the Kyler Murray type skill set wit hthe ability to throw off PA boot and the ability to stretch the seam vertically on vertical routes from the slot. Quick release and short accuracy too
This^^^. It's as if these guys must be flawless.
I listened to the BB Kickoff this morning from yesterday's show. And one of the guys goes on and on about how Lock did ok in Mobile, but it's more about his tape during the season which suggests he's not 1st round worthy. He then goes on to dog the edge rushers for not having a great week at Mobile and no mention of how they actually played during the season.
As much as I love he lead up to the draft, it is so hard to listen to many "analysts" during the process.
Quote:"I looked at player X's 2 worst games and I didn't like what I saw." You can pull that horseshit with anyone including Darnold and Rosen, who the writer mentions. If he says that's a problem he sees after evaluating all of Haskins' games, then fine. But don't just bring up just 2 games.
And in furtherance of that, Penn State was his fifth start and Purdue his eighth. I know he only had 14 career starts, but this is a guy who improved markedly from the beginning of the season to the end, and I think it is reasonable to expect him to struggle in a road game against Penn State in his 5th career start. Incidentally, for as bad as people suggest he was in that game, he threw for 270 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, and led ODU to a road victory over a tough opponent. Not exactly a horrific performance.
Against Purdue - only his eighth start - he had a bad pick six which people remember. He also threw for 470 in that game with multiple TDs and one INT. Yes, I know some of that cane in garbage time.
Look, even in his bad games, Haskins protected the football. And while he is inexperienced and has things to learn, he showed remarkable improvement from the beginning of the season to the end. That’s the growth you want to see from a young QB, and it suggests he is not nearly done growing as a player. By the end of the season he was scanning the field, manipulating defenders, etc. His best games came at the end of the year against great Ds. If Purdue and PSU got pressure, why couldn’t Michigan? Simple - because Haskins read the blitzes and adjusted his blocking. What more could you want from a young QB.
Stop telling me wait til next year. We don’t know a thing about the class yet or where we will be picking.
Even worse,he was a one year QB, surrounded by elite talent, who faced zero adversity in his college career. Buyer beware.
Bosa - Edge
School: Ohio State | Year: Junior
The No. 1 overall pick is reserved for elite players with dynamic skills. Bosa fits the bill as a disruptive pass rusher with exceptional hands and technical skills.
PICK
2
Josh Allen - Edge
School: Kentucky | Year: Senior
Allen would give the 49ers an explosive edge rusher with outstanding first-step quickness and burst.
PICK
3
Quinnen Williams - DT
School: Alabama | Year: Sophomore (RS)
Taking the "BPA" (best player available) has worked out for the Jets under general manager Mike Maccagnan. Williams is a dominant force who would fit nicely beside Leonard Williams on the inside.
PICK
4
Rashan Gary - Edge
School: Michigan | Year: Junior
The Raiders desperately need a blue-chip defender on the front line to harass the prolific passers in the AFC West. Gary is a better athlete than playmaker at this point, but his arrival should boost a pass rush that netted a league-low 13 sacks in 2018.
PICK
5
Devin White - LB
School: LSU | Year: Junior
White's speed, athleticism and playmaking ability would add a dimension to a Bucs defense that struggled to defend the run and pass over the middle.
If that happens, who do you take?
I take Simmons all day long in this scenario.
Quote:
"I looked at player X's 2 worst games and I didn't like what I saw." You can pull that horseshit with anyone including Darnold and Rosen, who the writer mentions. If he says that's a problem he sees after evaluating all of Haskins' games, then fine. But don't just bring up just 2 games.
And in furtherance of that, Penn State was his fifth start and Purdue his eighth. I know he only had 14 career starts, but this is a guy who improved markedly from the beginning of the season to the end, and I think it is reasonable to expect him to struggle in a road game against Penn State in his 5th career start. Incidentally, for as bad as people suggest he was in that game, he threw for 270 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, and led ODU to a road victory over a tough opponent. Not exactly a horrific performance.
Against Purdue - only his eighth start - he had a bad pick six which people remember. He also threw for 470 in that game with multiple TDs and one INT. Yes, I know some of that cane in garbage time.
Look, even in his bad games, Haskins protected the football. And while he is inexperienced and has things to learn, he showed remarkable improvement from the beginning of the season to the end. That’s the growth you want to see from a young QB, and it suggests he is not nearly done growing as a player. By the end of the season he was scanning the field, manipulating defenders, etc. His best games came at the end of the year against great Ds. If Purdue and PSU got pressure, why couldn’t Michigan? Simple - because Haskins read the blitzes and adjusted his blocking. What more could you want from a young QB.
Stop telling me wait til next year. We don’t know a thing about the class yet or where we will be picking.
We know just as much about the 2020 class as we do Haskins. That's the risky part. There is so little game tape to go on. By 2020, you will have about 3 years of game tape to look at for Tua, Fromm and Herbert. You have a bigger sample size to choose from.
The "where we will be picking" part is risky, but if Eli is as bad as everyone thinks he is, we wont have to worry about picking too far back. Gettleman and Co. would have to knock this offseason out of the park (especially defensively) for this team to be picking in the back half of the 1st round.
You will also have 3-4 less teams looking for a QB next year if Lock, Haskins, Jones and Murray are drafted. The Giants would only be contending with a handful of teams that are both worse than them and looking for a QB.
Quote:
In comment 14281357 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
"I looked at player X's 2 worst games and I didn't like what I saw." You can pull that horseshit with anyone including Darnold and Rosen, who the writer mentions. If he says that's a problem he sees after evaluating all of Haskins' games, then fine. But don't just bring up just 2 games.
And in furtherance of that, Penn State was his fifth start and Purdue his eighth. I know he only had 14 career starts, but this is a guy who improved markedly from the beginning of the season to the end, and I think it is reasonable to expect him to struggle in a road game against Penn State in his 5th career start. Incidentally, for as bad as people suggest he was in that game, he threw for 270 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, and led ODU to a road victory over a tough opponent. Not exactly a horrific performance.
Against Purdue - only his eighth start - he had a bad pick six which people remember. He also threw for 470 in that game with multiple TDs and one INT. Yes, I know some of that cane in garbage time.
Look, even in his bad games, Haskins protected the football. And while he is inexperienced and has things to learn, he showed remarkable improvement from the beginning of the season to the end. That’s the growth you want to see from a young QB, and it suggests he is not nearly done growing as a player. By the end of the season he was scanning the field, manipulating defenders, etc. His best games came at the end of the year against great Ds. If Purdue and PSU got pressure, why couldn’t Michigan? Simple - because Haskins read the blitzes and adjusted his blocking. What more could you want from a young QB.
Stop telling me wait til next year. We don’t know a thing about the class yet or where we will be picking.
We know just as much about the 2020 class as we do Haskins. That's the risky part. There is so little game tape to go on. By 2020, you will have about 3 years of game tape to look at for Tua, Fromm and Herbert. You have a bigger sample size to choose from.
The "where we will be picking" part is risky, but if Eli is as bad as everyone thinks he is, we wont have to worry about picking too far back. Gettleman and Co. would have to knock this offseason out of the park (especially defensively) for this team to be picking in the back half of the 1st round.
You will also have 3-4 less teams looking for a QB next year if Lock, Haskins, Jones and Murray are drafted. The Giants would only be contending with a handful of teams that are both worse than them and looking for a QB.
The problem with that is you are assuming that guys like Barkley and ODB don’t drag us to 7-8 wins. Miami had Tannehill and Osweiler and navigated their way to 7 wins this season, putting them at 13. If we pick 13th next year, we will not be finding a way to navigate into the top 5, especially of those guys are as good as you think they are.
And that’s the issue. We stink, but fortuitous bounces could lead to us tumbling down the draft board.
Besides, with the way this board nitpicks QBs, they’ll hate all those guys by next draft anyway. Before the 2017 season, Darnold and Rosen were seen as near locks for 1-2, and Allen was not far behind. Fast forward to the end, and everyone was criticizing them. Next year, it will be the same thing. Tua faced no adversity (see Haskins) and when he did he struggled (see Clemson game). Hebert could regress a bit causing people to fly off his bandwagon. Fromm could struggle too, as he did in the LSU and Texas games. Then what? Wait til 2021. And if we don’t get the chance to pick Lawrence in 2021? Wait til 2022? When does it end?
You guys are nitpicking the heck out of Haskins. He was dominant. Utterly dominant. But that’s not good enough because he didn’t face a ton of adversity? Is that a joke? The guy was awesome, but it doesn’t matter because he wasn’t getting smashed repeatedly. Dan Orlovsky pointed out some great throws he made while getting hit. Those good enough for you? Apparently not.
This isn't "evidence." It's just someone's opinion.
Think about it. You are more likely to get a piece written by EliteMobster than somebody who actually knows what the fuck they are talking about.
This is not a QB class where a guy jumps out as "you have to take this guy at the top of round 1". That was last year's class, and possibly next year's class.
You can already see this narrative being created in preparation for the Giants taking Haskins.
Think about it. You are more likely to get a piece written by EliteMobster than somebody who actually knows what the fuck they are talking about.
I went to read some his stuff. Literally this. Guy has no idea what the fuck he is talking about. He's a Giants fan with a blog that was able to capitalize on search engine optimization. At least that Walter Football guy at least knows the game even if he just makes shit about the teams themselves.
Bosa - Edge
School: Ohio State | Year: Junior
The No. 1 overall pick is reserved for elite players with dynamic skills. Bosa fits the bill as a disruptive pass rusher with exceptional hands and technical skills.
PICK
2
Josh Allen - Edge
School: Kentucky | Year: Senior
Allen would give the 49ers an explosive edge rusher with outstanding first-step quickness and burst.
PICK
3
Quinnen Williams - DT
School: Alabama | Year: Sophomore (RS)
Taking the "BPA" (best player available) has worked out for the Jets under general manager Mike Maccagnan. Williams is a dominant force who would fit nicely beside Leonard Williams on the inside.
PICK
4
Rashan Gary - Edge
School: Michigan | Year: Junior
The Raiders desperately need a blue-chip defender on the front line to harass the prolific passers in the AFC West. Gary is a better athlete than playmaker at this point, but his arrival should boost a pass rush that netted a league-low 13 sacks in 2018.
PICK
5
Devin White - LB
School: LSU | Year: Junior
White's speed, athleticism and playmaking ability would add a dimension to a Bucs defense that struggled to defend the run and pass over the middle.
If that happens, who do you take?
In this scenario maybe you take Sweat from Mississippi State.
Besides, with the way this board nitpicks QBs, they’ll hate all those guys by next draft anyway.
Bingo.
Think about it. You are more likely to get a piece written by EliteMobster than somebody who actually knows what the fuck they are talking about.
Yup, 247 Sports is trash. My only response to the thread (besides this one) was in regards to the scenario quoted by DefenderDawg.
He didn't like it when his shit takes were being challenged.
Giants breakout star: Paul Perkins has all the tools needed to take the next step - ( New Window )
Hah!
I’d like to see how he does in the combine but I think I’m with you there. Murray is too talented and productive to ignore.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if he measures a tick under 5'9" and 185-190 lbs.
That's very small for a QB and fairly risky.
If the size wasn't a concern, Murray would be the consensus top QB (and maybe even top player) in the class.
I love the skillset - just really don't like the size and don't trust that he'll be able to stay on the football field long-term.
There isnt any evidence to support the idea that a small QB cant play as well or as long as anyone else. Theres an obvious archetype bias when it comes to size in the NFL but players buck the trend at multiple positions all the time. And I’ve yet to see many (if any) players that are more prone to injury than others “just because they’re smaller”.
We won’t know until he steps on the field of course, but as far as I’m concerned - he’s never had any major injury issues to this point. I dont see that changing in the NFL. If he gets hurt its more likely to have occured regardless of his size rather than simply because he was smaller.
Have you ever seen him play? Serious question because his mobility isn't an issue at all. He actually has plus athletic ability for the position. Sometimes I wonder where people get this stuff.
C'mon. Half of them are still complaining we took Barkley over Darnold. And if we had done that and Barkley won the ROTY they would be saying the Giant should have taken him and Darnold is just another failed USC QB.
C'mon. Half of them are still complaining we took Barkley over Darnold. And if we had done that and Barkley won the ROTY they would be saying the Giant should have taken him and Darnold is just another failed USC QB.
What they would have said if the giants took x player doesnt matter for anything though.
Dottino is nothing more than a shill and cheerleader.
I wouldn't pick him at #6.
Quote:
He's writes better content than a majority of the beat writers out there right now. Have any of you read anything from Ranaan or the people from NJ.com recently?
C'mon. Half of them are still complaining we took Barkley over Darnold. And if we had done that and Barkley won the ROTY they would be saying the Giant should have taken him and Darnold is just another failed USC QB.
What they would have said if the giants took x player doesnt matter for anything though.
I fail to see the point of your post.
Dottino today said again in no way, shape, or form is he taking Haskins in this draft. Finally, something he and I can agree on!
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In comment 14281825 Dodge said:
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He's writes better content than a majority of the beat writers out there right now. Have any of you read anything from Ranaan or the people from NJ.com recently?
C'mon. Half of them are still complaining we took Barkley over Darnold. And if we had done that and Barkley won the ROTY they would be saying the Giant should have taken him and Darnold is just another failed USC QB.
What they would have said if the giants took x player doesnt matter for anything though.
I fail to see the point of your post.
The point is who cares what newspapers say? You're pointing out that writers would have hated what the giants did no matter who they picked.
I wouldn't pick him at #6.
His feet aren't that slow and he got considerably better as the year wore on.
How poised do you expect a first year starter to be early in his first season? If we're unwilling to take any QB who has any flaw, we're never going to have a new one.
And people are still hung up on looking for a gadget QB who is going to need to run all over the field to be effective.
I don't get it.
I'm not opposed to adding a QB in this draft. But there isn't a guy there that's worth it at #6. I'm not sure Haskins is that much better a prospect than the guys that will be available when we pick in round 2. I definitely don't think he's the type of guy you should draft at #6.
Is Haskins at #6 a better pick than Stidham at #35? Or Tyree Jackson in round 4 or 5? I don't think so. If Haskins falls to us in round 2, I'd take him there. But at the top of the draft? No way.
If there's a better edge rusher there @ 6, I'm fine with that. If Josh Allen somehow winds up there, I'm good with taking him. ER is a huge, huge need here - we all agree on that I think.
Hell, if they want to take Jonah Williams @ 6 - I'm fine with that too.
Haskins definitely won't be there in the 2nd round though - I think the vast majority of scouts have/will have him as their top QB in this class which I agree with. I think he's the best QB prospect. He has a lot of room to grow still - he showed improvement as the year went on and had a monster year.
Yes, he has question marks and concerns - every QB is going to whether it's Drew Lock looking like the next Jay Cutler, Kyler Murray's size, Daniel Jones' program and seemingly lack of plus tools anywhere, Grier's arm being too weak... we'll do it with any consideration.
Haskins has the talent base I am looking for - I think he can grow into a very good NFL QB. He has the arm, the size, the short/mid range accuracy and will be able to make accurate deep throws as well once his footwork improves.
He can evade rushers here and there if he needs to. He's really not as slow as Brady or Eli who I kind of call "quicksand pocket passers" because it's hard for them to really get out of the pocket without being caught quickly.
But, things will change more after the combine and a lot of things still need to come into focus with this QB class. As of now, I still really like Haskins and if we are going to take a QB in this draft - he's the guy I want.
And people are still hung up on looking for a gadget QB who is going to need to run all over the field to be effective.
I don't get it.
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In comment 14282063 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14281825 Dodge said:
Quote:
He's writes better content than a majority of the beat writers out there right now. Have any of you read anything from Ranaan or the people from NJ.com recently?
C'mon. Half of them are still complaining we took Barkley over Darnold. And if we had done that and Barkley won the ROTY they would be saying the Giant should have taken him and Darnold is just another failed USC QB.
What they would have said if the giants took x player doesnt matter for anything though.
I fail to see the point of your post.
The point is who cares what newspapers say? You're pointing out that writers would have hated what the giants did no matter who they picked.
People were trashing Schneier's writing. I was merely stating that it's as good if not better than what's out there with "legit" platforms.
I just don't see it with him and likely haven't seen him perform under duress . He is accurate but its like a lot of
quick throws to the sidelines . He is not athletic really .
Unless someone wants to move up and give us a boatload of
picks than I think we stay put . I hope Josh Allen is there
or Ferrell but its just to hard to say at this point .
Too much defense to be had IMO .