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HERP DERP: Would you trade Barkley for Wentz?

FStubbs : 1/30/2019 7:33 pm
Under this scenario, the Eagles decide that their team works better with Foles at QB, and, for whatever reason, decide the Giants would make a good trading partner, and offer Wentz straight up for Barkley. Do you pull the trigger?
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The offseason  
blueblood : 1/30/2019 10:12 pm : link
gives some of us too much time to think... about all the wrong stuff..
RE: LOL..  
B in ALB : 1/30/2019 10:41 pm : link
In comment 14281636 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so absurd.

Barkley will be lucky to have 5 good years, while Wentz has missed an entire season of games already.

But RB's grow on trees and Wentz is special...


Pffft. You need to learn to enjoy life.
RE: .  
Eman11 : 1/30/2019 10:49 pm : link
In comment 14281583 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In fact, the guy who is going to be lucky to play 5 good years right now is actually Carson Wentz.

Back injuries are serious and that he's failed to finish each of the last 2 years now is a major concern.

"If healthy" isn't a consideration because he's not healthy. This thread doesn't exist if Wentz had made it through the first 3 years and was the guy under center when the Eagles beat the Patriots last year.

The idea is they'd be moving him because he's damaged goods and would opt to keep Foles instead. We'd be taking on significant risk and it wouldn't be a good move for the Giants to make.

It's easy to find a good RB - it's not easy to find a great one. Saquon Barkley isn't a run of the mill RB.


Totally agree arc. SB is in that rarified air when it comes to RBs.

As for Wentz, it's been going on five years since Wentz was completely healthy. He injured his wrist his senior season and missed games, then ribs during the summer of his rookie year, the knee and now back.

I'm gonna have to see him actually be healthy for a full season before I believe he can do it.

The Giants need a quarterback so as not to waste the talents of  
GeofromNJ : 1/30/2019 10:52 pm : link
Barkley and OBJ. Trading Barkley for qb doesn't make a lot of sense. I would trade a 1st round pick for a qb, but not an elite player that is already on the roster.
RE: Holy shit  
81_Great_Dane : 1/30/2019 11:00 pm : link
In comment 14281524 B in ALB said:
Quote:
When will the idiocy stop?

Never, I'm sure.
Hey, it's offseason, it's a football forum, IMO there's nothing wrong with a guy posting this.

It's not an insane topic for conversation. My first thought was "No fuckin' way," but then I thought about it and realized it's not a crazy idea, if the teams would both do it and the money worked.

I'm not saying it's a good idea (it's not) but it's not a crazy idea.

Wentz looks like a franchise QB, but has been hurt a lot. Barkley is, well, Barkley. I don't think either team would do it. And in answer to the OP's question: No, I wouldn't do it. But it's kind of a fun thing to kick around.
Yeah, I know there's one more game  
81_Great_Dane : 1/30/2019 11:01 pm : link
but it's Giants' offseason.
RE: The Giants need a quarterback so as not to waste the talents of  
Johnny5 : 1/30/2019 11:05 pm : link
In comment 14281680 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
Barkley and OBJ. Trading Barkley for qb doesn't make a lot of sense. I would trade a 1st round pick for a qb, but not an elite player that is already on the roster.

Actually what they need right at this moment is better OL play. If they had that we're not even having this discussion.
RE: RE: Holy shit  
B in ALB : 1/30/2019 11:13 pm : link
In comment 14281686 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 14281524 B in ALB said:


Quote:


When will the idiocy stop?

Never, I'm sure.

Hey, it's offseason, it's a football forum, IMO there's nothing wrong with a guy posting this.

It's not an insane topic for conversation. My first thought was "No fuckin' way," but then I thought about it and realized it's not a crazy idea, if the teams would both do it and the money worked.

I'm not saying it's a good idea (it's not) but it's not a crazy idea.

Wentz looks like a franchise QB, but has been hurt a lot. Barkley is, well, Barkley. I don't think either team would do it. And in answer to the OP's question: No, I wouldn't do it. But it's kind of a fun thing to kick around.


Yeah if you live in fantasy land. Or a mental institution.
RE: some of you guys are too easily offended  
DonQuixote : 1/31/2019 3:48 am : link
In comment 14281560 Jerz44 said:
Quote:
its the off season for the giants, what else is there to talk about at this point except pointless, fun questions like this?

it's interesting, cause my buddy who's an eagles fan asked me if I'd do this straight up.

Probably not, cause I don't think Wentz is gonna ever be what they thought he'd be in 17. An MVP caliber QB is still the most important role in the game, though, so it'd be an interesting question.

I wonder if the Giants did offer this to the Eagles what would do?


Totally agree, It's an interesting/amusing question.
If Wentz agrees to a reasonable extention  
Andy in Halifax : 1/31/2019 8:25 am : link
I would. But he'd have to be okay leaving money on the table to build the roster.

He'll no  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/31/2019 9:09 am : link
Bbi wants to trade Barkley and our 1st round pick for Rosen.
RE: RE: Holy shit  
UConn4523 : 1/31/2019 9:18 am : link
In comment 14281686 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 14281524 B in ALB said:


Quote:


When will the idiocy stop?

Never, I'm sure.

Hey, it's offseason, it's a football forum, IMO there's nothing wrong with a guy posting this.

It's not an insane topic for conversation. My first thought was "No fuckin' way," but then I thought about it and realized it's not a crazy idea, if the teams would both do it and the money worked.

I'm not saying it's a good idea (it's not) but it's not a crazy idea.

Wentz looks like a franchise QB, but has been hurt a lot. Barkley is, well, Barkley. I don't think either team would do it. And in answer to the OP's question: No, I wouldn't do it. But it's kind of a fun thing to kick around.


I actually do think its a crazy idea. He's due big money soon and he's had 1 severe injury (torn ACL) and followed that up with a stress fracture in his back. I think it would be insane to not only make him a top paid QB but to also trade the best player on your team for him.

I like Wentz. Seems like a good dude and outside of playing for the Eagles is a fun QB to watch. But he's going to be someone's bad business decision, hopefully its the Eagles.
RE: He'll no  
Jay on the Island : 1/31/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14281811 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
Bbi wants to trade Barkley and our 1st round pick for Rosen.

Weird I don't remember seeing anyone suggest trading Barkley for Rosen alone let alone Barkley and a 1st. I guess it's stupid to trade one 1st round pick in exchange for a 21 year old potential franchise QB with 4 cheap years left on his contract. The Rams and Eagles gave up two 1st round picks plus more to move up for Goff and Wentz. The Chiefs gave up two 1st and a 3rd to move up for Mahomes. The Texans gave up two 1st round picks to move up for Watson. The Jets gave up a 1st and three 2nd round picks to move up 3 spots for Darnold. The Giants gave up two 1st round picks, a 3rd and a 5th to move up for Eli. Those were all terrible decisions I guess. I guess trading one 1st round pick for Rosen is absurd.
Jerz44  
joeinpa : 1/31/2019 9:27 am : link
Some of you guys are too sensitive.

Really. :.....I never noticed
What the hell does  
mattyblue : 1/31/2019 9:47 am : link
Herp Derp mean?
Unless there is some  
Josh in the City : 1/31/2019 9:47 am : link
underlying long term medical issue with Wentz, anybody who says no to this is literally fucking clueless. I'm sorry to be so harsh but it's true. The value of a QB in today's NFL is 1000x more important than RB. And Wentz was the front runner for league MVP before he got hurt 2 years ago. He's also very young and not even in the prime of his career yet. This proposed trade scenario is so lopsided it shouldn't even be debatable.
Wentz..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/31/2019 9:52 am : link
was the front-runner on a team that ended up winning the SB with Foles as their QB. Wentz has missed 13 games the past two years due to injury, and due to his playing style is likely to continue to be banged up.

He was also missed 8 games in college due to injuries.

That's a no-brainer??

Some of the shit I read here is just mind boggling
By the way - you also need to throw in...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/31/2019 9:53 am : link
that he'll expect to be paid handsomely in the next couple of years. Probably in the $35-40M range.

Discounting that fact is what's clueless.
Just wow.  
Beezer : 1/31/2019 9:54 am : link
Barkley for Wentz. lol
What's clueless  
RinR : 1/31/2019 9:55 am : link
would be trading an emerging superstar for a QB who hasn't been able to finish the last 2 seasons.
And not...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/31/2019 9:57 am : link
surprisingly, Josh who still ranted about not picking a QB throughout the entire season thinks people who wouldn't trade for Wentz are clueless.

Guy has literally obsessed about QB's since the draft.
NO  
TheMick7 : 1/31/2019 9:59 am : link
.
I think the Wentz injury history...  
bw in dc : 1/31/2019 9:59 am : link
plays in favor of the team. Heíll have to concede that heís had major surgeries and there is higher exposure. There is no getting around that fact.

I donít see a huge deal = or > than the Rodgers deal, for example. So throw out any hope of $35-40M per.

I would treat the trade like the Saints going after Brees. Itís worth the stretch....
RE: RE: He'll no  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/31/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14281824 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14281811 Coach Red Beaulieu said:


Quote:


Bbi wants to trade Barkley and our 1st round pick for Rosen.


Weird I don't remember seeing anyone suggest trading Barkley for Rosen alone let alone Barkley and a 1st. I guess it's stupid to trade one 1st round pick in exchange for a 21 year old potential franchise QB with 4 cheap years left on his contract. The Rams and Eagles gave up two 1st round picks plus more to move up for Goff and Wentz. The Chiefs gave up two 1st and a 3rd to move up for Mahomes. The Texans gave up two 1st round picks to move up for Watson. The Jets gave up a 1st and three 2nd round picks to move up 3 spots for Darnold. The Giants gave up two 1st round picks, a 3rd and a 5th to move up for Eli. Those were all terrible decisions I guess. I guess trading one 1st round pick for Rosen is absurd.

There is also an element of logic that makes a trade for Rosen discussion largely moot. If Zona is shopping Rosen, there is definitely huge red flags concerns that you would be stupid to trade away a high 1st round pick for. Maybe a 3rd round pick I would bite.
RE: RE: RE: He'll no  
Jay on the Island : 1/31/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14281904 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:


There is also an element of logic that makes a trade for Rosen discussion largely moot. If Zona is shopping Rosen, there is definitely huge red flags concerns that you would be stupid to trade away a high 1st round pick for. Maybe a 3rd round pick I would bite.

You need to take into account that they have a new HC that didn't pick Rosen. It is entirely possible that Kingsbury is enamored with Murray and thinks that he could be a perfect fit for his offense and be a true superstar at the position. If that's the case then Kingsbury could get his QB and use Rosen to get another high 1st round pick to add another talented player to fill another hole. I think a fair deal is the 6th overall pick for Rosen and the Cards 2nd round pick (33rd overall). That is a very valuable pick as several teams will want to trade up for a player that fell out of round 1. The Giants could then trade down and pick up a 3rd round pick. With their two 2nd round picks the Giants could add an OL and a pass rusher. Another thing to consider is that Rosen is ready to start now so the Giants can move on from Eli and save $17 million in cap room. They could sign a cheap veteran backup. Someone like Josh McCown would be a good addition as he is basically another coach on the field.
Probably not  
Greg from LI : 1/31/2019 11:05 am : link
Mainly because the only thing proven about Wentz is that he's injury prone.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 1/31/2019 11:05 am : link
In comment 14281592 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14281577 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Adrian Peterson just rushed for 1000+ yards at age 33.

It's going to take a significant injury for Barkley to be "lucky" to have 5 good years. Cmon.



And remind how many times a 33 year old has run for 1K yards? Believe me, that is more of a Haley's Comet accomplishment for RBs...

Look, you know I how I feel about RBs. I believe they grow on trees.

I'm assuming health for Wentz. And that the five top Ortho & Neuro doctors I've hired have cleared Wentz.




But Saquon Barkley is a "Haley's Comet" RB. He is that type of athlete and player.

It will take a very serious injury for Barkley to be lucky to have 5 good years. I think you know that. He's big, he's in incredible shape, he takes care of his body. He's built to have a long career for a RB.

Wentz is the more valuable commodity - but if I am going to hitch my wagon to one of these guys for the next 5-10 years, it's Barkley for me 11 times out of 10.

And yes, I agree with you that RB's are easy to find. But again, Barkley is not a typical RB.

Kerryon Johnson, for example... the other RB I really liked in this past draft. He had a very nice rookie year, but he also missed nearly half of it and he's not in Barkley's class in terms of ability, potential, and wow factor.

We can get Kerryon Johnson's... but prospects like Barkley are a lot harder to find. He is a legitimate generational talent.

How his career unfolds from here? I can't tell ya. But barring a really major injury, I'll bet my handle that Barkley has more than 5 good seasons in this league and I'd also bet he has a few first team all pro designations coming his way in the next few years.
RE: I think the Wentz injury history...  
Essex : 1/31/2019 11:16 am : link
In comment 14281882 bw in dc said:
Quote:
plays in favor of the team. Heíll have to concede that heís had major surgeries and there is higher exposure. There is no getting around that fact.

I donít see a huge deal = or > than the Rodgers deal, for example. So throw out any hope of $35-40M per.

I would treat the trade like the Saints going after Brees. Itís worth the stretch....


Wentz has all the bargaining power here. The Eagles would have to pick up Wentz's fifth year option BEFORE the season starts. His fifth year option is going to be worth well over 30 million. So, before this season starts, the Eagles are in to him for that 30 million not spread out with a signing bonus, which gives Wentz a ton of leverage. Then, if they do it that way and can't come to a long term agreement, the next step is they would have to franchise him, which would be over 35 million for the following season. Unless the Eagles were willing to cut him loose in the next two years after they get rid of Foles, which they wont be (even if he had another ACL). In other words, Wentz's injury history might be a factor for the Eagles and maybe it will trim a million here or there, but it is just not going to be a major factor in his deal. He will be paid in the top 3-5 qbs in the league and that will be in the 35 million range in a long term deal this off season. That is my prediction.
If the Giants called Philly  
fanofthejets : 1/31/2019 12:56 pm : link
And proposed Barkley for Wentz the Eagles front office would probably have the first recorded mass laughter induced stroke.
RE: If the Giants called Philly  
figgy2989 : 1/31/2019 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14282156 fanofthejets said:
Quote:
And proposed Barkley for Wentz the Eagles front office would probably have the first recorded mass laughter induced stroke.


Isn't this pretty much par for the course when talking about the Jet's brass and the moves they make?
RE: RE: If the Giants called Philly  
fanofthejets : 1/31/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14282162 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14282156 fanofthejets said:


Quote:


And proposed Barkley for Wentz the Eagles front office would probably have the first recorded mass laughter induced stroke.



Isn't this pretty much par for the course when talking about the Jet's brass and the moves they make?


Yes. But of late you've joined us in that boat.

RE: RE: RE: Holy shit  
JCin332 : 1/31/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14281696 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 14281686 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


In comment 14281524 B in ALB said:


Quote:


When will the idiocy stop?

Never, I'm sure.

Hey, it's offseason, it's a football forum, IMO there's nothing wrong with a guy posting this.

It's not an insane topic for conversation. My first thought was "No fuckin' way," but then I thought about it and realized it's not a crazy idea, if the teams would both do it and the money worked.

I'm not saying it's a good idea (it's not) but it's not a crazy idea.

Wentz looks like a franchise QB, but has been hurt a lot. Barkley is, well, Barkley. I don't think either team would do it. And in answer to the OP's question: No, I wouldn't do it. But it's kind of a fun thing to kick around.



Yeah if you live in fantasy land. Or a mental institution.


Actually it's entirely possible bw resides in both...
RE: RE: RE: If the Giants called Philly  
figgy2989 : 1/31/2019 1:22 pm : link
In comment 14282163 fanofthejets said:
Quote:
In comment 14282162 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


In comment 14282156 fanofthejets said:


Quote:


And proposed Barkley for Wentz the Eagles front office would probably have the first recorded mass laughter induced stroke.



Isn't this pretty much par for the course when talking about the Jet's brass and the moves they make?



Yes. But of late you've joined us in that boat.


Yet, you still envy the Giants and their fans. I mean why else would a Jets fan be trolling a Giants board?
Id rather face Wentz twice a year  
NoPeanutz : 1/31/2019 1:47 pm : link
than Barkley twice a year.
If we werenít in the same division  
Jimmy Googs : 1/31/2019 1:52 pm : link
I kind of would consider this trade...
.  
arcarsenal : 1/31/2019 1:57 pm : link
Blows my mind that "fanofthejets" visits a Giants message board on a daily basis.

I couldn't even get myself to care about the Jets enough to READ one of their MB's, let alone register, read it daily, AND post there.
RE: If we werenít in the same division  
Go Terps : 1/31/2019 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14282224 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
I kind of would consider this trade...


A good trade is a good trade...being in the same division shouldn't matter at all.

That said, this wouldn't be a good trade because Wentz doesn't merit the contract he's about to get.
No  
Thegratefulhead : 1/31/2019 2:14 pm : link
I would trade him for Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck, Deshaun Watson and maybe Mayfield.
RE: RE: If we werenít in the same division  
Jimmy Googs : 1/31/2019 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14282247 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14282224 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


I kind of would consider this trade...



A good trade is a good trade...being in the same division shouldn't matter at all.

That said, this wouldn't be a good trade because Wentz doesn't merit the contract he's about to get.


Tatonka...buffalo
Why does anyone think Wentz is going to be so great?  
Don in DC : 1/31/2019 6:14 pm : link
Fucking kid had one solid year. Last year he couldn't stay on the field and wasn't great when he was. And he has serious back problems. Back problems are the death knell of a QB's career.

I would lay money on this kid never living up to the hype. Barkley, on the other hand, will be one of the top offensive weapons in the league for most of the 2020s.

So, to answer the original question... no fucking way.
I wouldnít call 2017 a solid year  
UConn4523 : 1/31/2019 6:23 pm : link
he had an excellent sophomore season. This is purely about injuries for me and I also question his effectiveness if he changes his style of play. Iím keeping Barkley and investing in controlling TOP until a QB worth trading for or selecting high becomes an option.
Not happening  
anon837 : 2/1/2019 12:51 pm : link
No GM in his right mind would ever trade away their starting QB for a RB. The owners would fire him on the spot. In this day of wide open offenses, you better get yourself a good QB and hold on to them. They are hard to come by. Yes Wentz suffered some injuries, but his talent shows when healthy. Foles is a nice story but he's the equivalent of MLB closer being handed the ball in the 9 inning to shut the door. There was someone doing the heavy lifting for the previous 8 innings. That someone is Wentz. Can Foles be a B+ QB for 16 + games. I highly doubt it. Philly has their QB and they will pay him. They are not going through QB purgatory after tasting playoff success.
But..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/1/2019 12:55 pm : link
it really wasn't a season:

Quote:
I wouldnít call 2017 a solid year
UConn4523 : 1/31/2019 6:23 pm : link : reply
he had an excellent sophomore season


It was 14 games and the backup was still able to guide the team to a title.

That has to make one wonder how much of it was Wentz.
Wentz was excellent over those 14 games  
Jimmy Googs : 2/1/2019 1:30 pm : link
in all aspects of the game. He was absolutely the leading candidate for overall NFL MVP at the time of his injury.

Unfortunately he was taking way too many aggressive moves with his body, and it caught up to him.

He may have changed since the injury (not sure) but lets not downplay the high performance level he had achieved in such a short time.

RE: Wentz was excellent over those 14 games  
Johnny5 : 2/1/2019 4:59 pm : link
In comment 14283649 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
in all aspects of the game. He was absolutely the leading candidate for overall NFL MVP at the time of his injury.

Unfortunately he was taking way too many aggressive moves with his body, and it caught up to him.

He may have changed since the injury (not sure) but lets not downplay the high performance level he had achieved in such a short time.

I agree but he has yet to finish a full season. That's pretty concerning, and he is taking in a lot of wear and tear.
Totally agree but that is a different point  
Jimmy Googs : 2/1/2019 5:44 pm : link
than he doesn't have the talent...
For sure  
Johnny5 : 2/1/2019 7:33 pm : link
Very good QB no question.
Nobody is saying..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/1/2019 9:59 pm : link
Wentz doesn't have talent.

But the NFL is funny in that players can go from being great to mediocre very quickly. It can be due to injury, due to age, due to other teams adapting, or simply due to a small sample size of very good games that ends up being an outlier.

The difference between a dominant Hakeem Nicks and a pedestrian one was from loss of feeling in his leg. A Mitch Trubisky that people were heaping praise on in the early part of a season becomes just another QB by the end of it. Colin Kaepernick can go from being a dynamic player and playing in a Super Bowl to being a backup without getting injured.

Agree. I think the NFL saw a Wentz in 2017 that was uber-talented  
Jimmy Googs : 2/2/2019 7:59 am : link
and the only thing that held him back is he decided to go a bridge too far with the diving head first crap. Thats akin to dogs chasing cars...

Back to OP, if you tell me Wentz can get directionally close to his 2017 showings (sans some of the risk taking) then I would seriously consider trading SB for Wentz.

If his game has now been curtailed, and he plays differently because of the injury or to try and just get thru 16 games, then I would pass and keep the hand of god fellow...
RE: Nobody is saying..  
Johnny5 : 2/2/2019 9:03 am : link
In comment 14284098 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:

But the NFL is funny in that players can go from being great to mediocre very quickly. It can be due to injury, due to age, due to other teams adapting, or simply due to a small sample size of very good games that ends up being an outlier.

Or their OL goes to hell and never gets properly reconstructed! ... lol
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