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Kyler Murray

Archer : 2/1/2019 11:21 am
I was listening to Golic this morning and he had Murray on his show.

Murray sounds like a great kid. He is a rare athlete that has the ability to succeed in both football and baseball.

He has until mid February to make a definitive decision between baseball and football. If he is to play baseball he will have to participate in spring training.

It sounded a lot like he will play football.

Murray considers himself a field general. He loves the cerebral portion of the game and believes that his college training has prepared him for the pros.

One other observation from the interview, Golic offered that Murray was larger than he thought. He was both taller and thicker.

I would draft Murray at 6 for the Giants. I would take a chance on greatness. His detractors will say that he cannot take the beating, but Wilson and Brees, have persevered. He has the greatest upside of the QBs, there is no weakness to his game and he is made for a Pat Shurmer offense.

Murray would improve the offensive line, as defenses would have to try and maintain the pocket.

Put him with Barkley, OBJ and Engram and they will be unstoppable.

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Haskins vs Murray  
Archer : 2/1/2019 3:53 pm : link
For those who prefer Haskins I suggest that you rewatch his games
Haskins is a good QB but not great and has limited upside

Haskins is not a fast twitch or sudden player
He has slow footwork and a long delivery with a hitch
He is a prototype drop back passer but he does not have an extremely strong arm
He can extend plays with his strength but he is not explosive
Haskins upside is limited

It is not that I dislike Haskins , he just is not Murray
Murray has an unlimited upside based upon his skill set
There is risk in Kyler but I would rather take a chance on greatness

RE: Haskins vs Murray  
Eman11 : 2/1/2019 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14283863 Archer said:
Quote:
For those who prefer Haskins I suggest that you rewatch his games
Haskins is a good QB but not great and has limited upside

Haskins is not a fast twitch or sudden player
He has slow footwork and a long delivery with a hitch
He is a prototype drop back passer but he does not have an extremely strong arm
He can extend plays with his strength but he is not explosive
Haskins upside is limited

It is not that I dislike Haskins , he just is not Murray
Murray has an unlimited upside based upon his skill set
There is risk in Kyler but I would rather take a chance on greatness


The Giants can't afford to take ANY chances with the 6th pick. It needs to be a player they're convinced will be a can't miss pro. One who hopefully fills a position of great need taboot.

If they're convinced it's one of the QB's then so be it but it can't be a hope type pick. It has to be a player they're sold 100% on IMO.
there's risk with just about any pick  
UConn4523 : 2/1/2019 4:17 pm : link
and we are picking 6, not 2 again. Whoever we take at 6 isn't guaranteed to be great.

People want an ER and I get it. But there's a real potential of us only being able to get the #3 or #4 ranked ER in the draft if we don't move up. Isn't that risky?

I'm fine going ER, but I'm not going to pretend that its any guarantee.
There is no such thing as a sure fire lock in the draft  
Mike from Ohio : 2/1/2019 4:29 pm : link
There are a few players in this draft that will be described as high floor types that will not succeed. That is the nature of the draft. Whoever the Giants pick at #6 will be a gamble to some extent.

Trust your board and trust your evaluations, but in the end you need to pick a guy who can be a difference maker, not just a guy who won't become a bust.
Iím One of the People Who Wants Murray  
Giants38 : 2/1/2019 4:29 pm : link
But that DP interview was garbage. Itís universally being regarded as a bad look. And, basically, it is hard for me to support that guy when he hardly seems committed to football at the moment. In contrast, Haskins had an excellent interview today and - on top of doing everything you want on the field - said everything you want to hear. Many people came away from Murrayís interviews today feeling that he wants to play baseball, not football and that he is using this process as leverage. You know what? Itís hard to argue with that after watching them.
RE: there's risk with just about any pick  
Eman11 : 2/1/2019 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14283893 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and we are picking 6, not 2 again. Whoever we take at 6 isn't guaranteed to be great.

People want an ER and I get it. But there's a real potential of us only being able to get the #3 or #4 ranked ER in the draft if we don't move up. Isn't that risky?

I'm fine going ER, but I'm not going to pretend that its any guarantee.


I'd take the #1 CB,LB,OL at six in a heartbeat who they think at worst will be a very solid pro, over rolling the dice on a QB who could be a boom or bust type pick.

As far as ER's go there's no telling what ones will be there at 6. He could be the fourth one picked but maybe the second rated one on the Giants board. Maybe even the guy everyone thinks is the 2nd best is still there.

Point is the Giants should grab what they feel is as close to a can't miss pro as they can. If they feel one of the QBs is that, then I'm fine with it. I just don't want them reaching for one over a better player, especially if that player fills a huge need.
But why is it ďrolling the diceĒ?  
UConn4523 : 2/1/2019 4:43 pm : link
what if the Giants really like Murray? I realize this probably isnít the case but if they think he can make plays in and out of the pocket and arenít as concerned as we are about his size than Iím all for it.
RE: But why is it ďrolling the diceĒ?  
Eman11 : 2/1/2019 4:52 pm : link
In comment 14283914 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
what if the Giants really like Murray? I realize this probably isnít the case but if they think he can make plays in and out of the pocket and arenít as concerned as we are about his size than Iím all for it.


It was in response to the OP saying he was in favor of taking a chance on greatness. To me taking a chance is pretty much rolling the dice. That's what I'm not comfortable with them doing regardless of position.

As for Murray, I agree with you. If the Giants are convinced he's the goods, I'm fine with it. I'm only against reaching for him or any of the QBs if they're not convinced and take a QB just to take one.
"Rolling the dice"  
AcesUp : 2/1/2019 4:56 pm : link
1 team out of 32 wins every year. You have to take risks to outperform 31 other billion dollar organizations. Obviously you can't be foolish but I some point you are putting your nuts on the table if you have any aspirations of actually winning a championship.
RE:  
Eman11 : 2/1/2019 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14283921 AcesUp said:
Quote:
1 team out of 32 wins every year. You have to take risks to outperform 31 other billion dollar organizations. Obviously you can't be foolish but I some point you are putting your nuts on the table if you have any aspirations of actually winning a championship.


Well we can agree to disagree then. I for one want them taking little to no risk with the 6th pick. It's way to valuable a commodity IMO.

If someone slides into the 2nd rd who is worth taking a chance on, then fine but 6 needs to be as solid a pick as they can make IMO.
Every draft pick is a roll of the dice.  
81_Great_Dane : 2/1/2019 5:12 pm : link
Saquon Barkley was as close to a sure thing as it gets in the draft, but most of the time, even at the top of the first you don't know whether you're getting Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. It's all a crapshoot.

Re Murray, I have no strong feelings one way or the other. But assuming he, Haskins and Lock are all on the board when the Giants are on the clock, I'd rather see them go with the guy with the best chance to be great, not the guy with the greatest likelihood of being pretty good, the highest ceiling not the lowest floor. I don't know who that is, or how they evaluate that. I'd rather see them gamble on a great player than settle for a solid one.

Someone compared Murray to Doug Flutie. So many people focused on what Flutie wasn't (big, strong) they overlooked what he was. I don't want the Giants to have the next Doug Flutie, but that would be better than having the next Dave Brown.
It's a very difficult call to make. His height is a significant  
Ira : 2/1/2019 5:27 pm : link
disadvantage, but he has better passing stats and is faster than any of the other top prospects. He's got a good arm, he's accurate, makes good decisions, etc. So somehow teams have to weigh his lack of height against his great attributes. That's something I'm content to leave to the professionals.
How do small WRs and small rbs succeed in the nfl  
djm : 2/1/2019 5:28 pm : link
but a smaller qb canít? How? Prove it.
I want Arizona  
BlueManCrew : 2/1/2019 5:41 pm : link
To draft Murray and trade us Rosen for #6. Heís better than any QB this year.
RE: It's a very difficult call to make. His height is a significant  
AcesUp : 2/1/2019 5:44 pm : link
In comment 14283943 Ira said:
Quote:
disadvantage, but he has better passing stats and is faster than any of the other top prospects. He's got a good arm, he's accurate, makes good decisions, etc. So somehow teams have to weigh his lack of height against his great attributes. That's something I'm content to leave to the professionals.


I think the NFL's bias against height has merit but has been overvalued. If a player has the arm talent to throw from multiple angles and the ability to move around - he can create throwing lanes for himself. The height then doesn't matter. Murray has the arm and the instincts for that.

The additional risk with Murray is his size. That's a big one coupled with his playing style. Can he stay on the field? I think he's destined to either play hurt or miss a few games a year, I'm actually fine with that. If he's special, it's tougher to find a special talent at QB than it is to find a capable QB to plug in for a couple of games. The league is littered with them, guys come off the scrap heap and earn big contracts (see Foles and Keenum).

I think the bigger risks with him are the fact that he's only started 1 year in a QB friendly system. You combine that with his size and his game, which teams are only now opening up to as viable for the NFL and you're left with a LOT of projection. There's also the pull of baseball, which is real. Risk on top of risk on top of risk.

Then you watch him in college and imagine what he could be with Barkley and OBJ if he's even half of that player. I agree 6 is too rich for that but a late first flyer makes a ton of sense if you look at our situation and roster.
RE: I don't think a Dan Patrick interview  
Hsilwek92 : 2/1/2019 5:55 pm : link
In comment 14283855 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
means anything. Sounds like people who don't want Murrary are grasping at stuff to knock him for other than his size. Its odd. Strange interview for sure, but he's clearly been told to not answer questions and he's getting his first taste of what that's like. The interviews with the Giants are what matters.


Thereís a difference between not answering whether heís leaning one way or another and, sounding completely aloof and disinterested. Even when DP moved on to other subjects and asked other questions, he basically gave shoulder shrugs as answers.

Plenty of guests go on and wonít talk about certain things but, theyíre at least engaging and go along with the process of the interview without looking and sounding like a shy 3 year old.
Some of you guys still think like Giants management  
SHO'NUFF : 2/1/2019 6:08 pm : link
pass on a player because he doesn't fit the mold. They just love the safe picks, even when it comes to selecting a new GM and HC. Lot of good it's done us so far.
RE: Some of you guys still think like Giants management  
Default : 2/1/2019 6:12 pm : link
In comment 14283971 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
pass on a player because he doesn't fit the mold. They just love the safe picks, even when it comes to selecting a new GM and HC. Lot of good it's done us so far.


I think that's the case, doesn't mean we agree with it.
RE: RE: Some of you guys still think like Giants management  
Default : 2/1/2019 6:14 pm : link
In comment 14283972 Default said:
Quote:
In comment 14283971 SHO'NUFF said:


Quote:


pass on a player because he doesn't fit the mold. They just love the safe picks, even when it comes to selecting a new GM and HC. Lot of good it's done us so far.



I think that's the case, doesn't mean we agree with it.


Shit, didn't read your post correctly...

I agree, it hasn't done the team any good, and I wish they wouldn't think so conservatively, but I don't see it changing any time soon.
RE: Some of you guys still think like Giants management  
Eman11 : 2/1/2019 6:15 pm : link
In comment 14283971 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
pass on a player because he doesn't fit the mold. They just love the safe picks, even when it comes to selecting a new GM and HC. Lot of good it's done us so far.


Yeah those four Lombardi's look terrible in the trophy case.
RE: RE: I don't think a Dan Patrick interview  
UConn4523 : 2/1/2019 6:22 pm : link
In comment 14283967 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
In comment 14283855 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


means anything. Sounds like people who don't want Murrary are grasping at stuff to knock him for other than his size. Its odd. Strange interview for sure, but he's clearly been told to not answer questions and he's getting his first taste of what that's like. The interviews with the Giants are what matters.



Thereís a difference between not answering whether heís leaning one way or another and, sounding completely aloof and disinterested. Even when DP moved on to other subjects and asked other questions, he basically gave shoulder shrugs as answers.

Plenty of guests go on and wonít talk about certain things but, theyíre at least engaging and go along with the process of the interview without looking and sounding like a shy 3 year old.


Heís 21 and about to make the biggest decision of his life. Heís trying not to slip up and make a mistake. I know you may not care about those things, but it happens all the time, and it usually never matters. If DG interviews him and doesnít give answers, thatís a different story.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/1/2019 6:36 pm : link
In comment 14283851 Dodge said:
Quote:


Quote:


In comment 14283844 arcarsenal said:


I think a team that tries to take Murray's legs away from him will be neutering him. If you're going to take a chance on him, you have to let him play the way he's been playing.




I don't disagree with that, but that's a more reasonable position than your first post. What you're writing, to me anyway, conflates a running QB vs. a mobile QB.


I know the difference. If you're not able to discern that in my writing, that's on you.
I have compared Murray to Flutie  
gary_from_chester : 2/1/2019 7:11 pm : link
I just think this kid is a special talent. The NFL missed out on Flutieís best years. Here is a link to a decent writeup and evaluation of Flutieís abilities:

http://www.footballperspective.com/guest-post-doug-flutie-was-a-great-quarterback/

I think this kid is another Flutie and we donít have to miss out again, would love him on the Giants. Is there huge risk? Absolutely. There is also huge risk in taking Haskins if you believe like I do he has a limited ceiling. I would rather take the risk on potential greatness.

I do have reason to pause. Sy56 has forgotten more about footbal than I will ever know and he seems pretty certain Murray doesnít cut it in the NFL. I was holding out hope that after he did his film study he would change his opinion. To my unprofessional and untrained eye, he looks like a special talent. He IS NOT RG3, this kid can really sling it, moves to extend the play and make tne throw, runs when circumstances call,for it and he avoids big hits. Smart player and a GAMER, he is tough and competitive. Plenty of bigger guys who play smaller. I am bummed that Sy56 does not see even some possibility he is the goods. FWIW (nothing i guess) would be ecstatic if we picked him at 6.
Murray is the exact same size as Tiki his senior year at UVA  
Vanzetti : 2/1/2019 7:21 pm : link
He is not small. He is short
RE: RE: RE: I don't think a Dan Patrick interview  
Hsilwek92 : 2/1/2019 7:30 pm : link
In comment 14283976 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14283967 Hsilwek92 said:


Quote:


In comment 14283855 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


means anything. Sounds like people who don't want Murrary are grasping at stuff to knock him for other than his size. Its odd. Strange interview for sure, but he's clearly been told to not answer questions and he's getting his first taste of what that's like. The interviews with the Giants are what matters.



Thereís a difference between not answering whether heís leaning one way or another and, sounding completely aloof and disinterested. Even when DP moved on to other subjects and asked other questions, he basically gave shoulder shrugs as answers.

Plenty of guests go on and wonít talk about certain things but, theyíre at least engaging and go along with the process of the interview without looking and sounding like a shy 3 year old.



Heís 21 and about to make the biggest decision of his life. Heís trying not to slip up and make a mistake. I know you may not care about those things, but it happens all the time, and it usually never matters. If DG interviews him and doesnít give answers, thatís a different story.


Thatís lame excuse. How is he going to slip up by answering softball question like, ďWho was your favorite player growing up?Ē

Hell, even his Ďpromotingí of Gatorade, one of the reasons he was on the show, was god awful. IIRC, he mumbled something like, ďYeah. Gatorade. Love it. Cool Blue is my favorite. ď

Look, itís very easy. All he or his reps had to do is say they donít want to answer any questions about how heís leaning. Some people probably wouldíve balked at that and said thanks but no thanks. The bottom line is, the question is going to be continued to be asked until the decision is finally made. Him or his team not having a strategy in place to dodge them effectively at this point looks bad.

I think heís a tremendous talent and, Iím not saying itís a huge mark against him, but I also think itís not something you can just brush off as, ďNothing to see here.Ē
Itís not a lame excuse  
UConn4523 : 2/1/2019 7:45 pm : link
some people donít like answering questions on camera. Thatís an absolute fact. Easy for you to say how he should act but it very well could be something he doesnít like doing. Or maybe heís an idiot, I donít know but Iím certainly not jumping to conclusions on it.
We're looking for a quarterback, not a guy who's smooth on talk  
Ira : 2/1/2019 7:47 pm : link
shows.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/1/2019 8:00 pm : link
All of the interview stuff is a total non factor for me - I don't care about any of that. I'm completely focused on the player.

And I'm also not the type of guy who wants to look smart more than I want the Giants to be good again. So, if they take Murray, I won't spend all year fighting it like people here pathetically did regarding Saquon because they couldn't get over him not being a QB.

I actually think Murray is super exciting. I wouldn't be angry if we took him as much as I'd just be concerned about how reliable he'd really be. I'd still get on board with it because I'm a bigger fan of the Giants than my ego.

That said - I've belabored this point about durability because I think Giants fans almost don't really remember what it's like to have that concern. We've had an iron man under center for 15 years now. He has been there as reliably as the sun rising in the east each day and I think we take that for granted and almost just sort of inherently assume we'll have similar luck going forward.

I don't actually believe all Giants fans are going to just assume no QB will ever get hurt again because of the luck we've had with Eli - I'm just saying that because of what we grew accustomed to for such a long time, I think most people here put the QB getting hurt risk on the backburner much more than perhaps fans of a team like Miami might, for example. Or any team who has been without their starter a bit recently.
I agree with you  
UConn4523 : 2/1/2019 8:09 pm : link
your reasons make sense, nothing to argue with. My thoughts which are purely my opinion and donít expect many to agree, is that weíve stunk for so long Iím fine with not getting another iron man. Itís no offense to Eli but him being an iron man hasnít helped us much in 7 years now and I realize a lot of that isnít his fault, but the point remains.

Iím ready to move on to something non conventional. 2-3 years ago I never thought Iíd say it, but I do now. Iíd like to do something innovative, or try to. If we fail at it we are in no worse shape than we are now. I know jobs are at stake so itís easier said than done, but itís what I want as a fan.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/1/2019 8:22 pm : link
No doubt, and that's a fair stance too - I don't think there's really anything wrong with that.

Murray with Barkley and Beckham is very exciting - Engram can be part of that as well if we can work him in more and utilize his skillset.

And it would be fun to watch the Giants play an entirely different brand of ball than what we've seen for so many years.

I still prefer Haskins, but Murray is actually right behind him for me. I'm at a place where I'd rather take a risk on Murray than draft Daniel Jones or Drew Lock.
No way  
uther99 : 2/1/2019 8:34 pm : link
Giants draft Murray
I'm with UCONN on this one  
SHO'NUFF : 2/1/2019 8:42 pm : link
I'm on Team Murray.
It isn't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/1/2019 10:18 pm : link
an either or situation:

Quote:
Some of you guys still think like Giants management
SHO'NUFF : 6:08 pm : link : reply
pass on a player because he doesn't fit the mold. They just love the safe picks, even when it comes to selecting a new GM and HC. Lot of good it's done us so far.


For all this talk about "safe" vs. "risky", the Giants are a bad team. They don't get magically better by being risky, because they not only have to hit on that risk, but they have to beat the probabilities.

I don't look at them as having been safe - I look at them as having been very poor at drafting.

Flowers was a risky pick. Apple was a risky pick. They were reaches who didn't pan out and look where we are in part because of it.

Reese's tenure was filled with high-risk players, whether it was from past injuries, reaching or playing lesser competition. JPP worked out fantastic. Tuck worked out.

But most of them didn't. And that's what should be expected.

The other fault in logic is that taking a flyer on "greatness" with Murray means that a "safe" pick doesn't have a shot at greatness. And that's been proven false time and again in the NFL.

It isn't about risk - it is about drafting good players.
Reminds me of another QB.  
TC : 2/2/2019 1:34 am : link
The basis of the comparison is obvious, but he actually does remind me a little of how Eddie played the game.

Video - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Some of you guys still think like Giants management  
GoBlue6599 : 2/2/2019 2:00 pm : link
In comment 14283974 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14283971 SHO'NUFF said:


Quote:


pass on a player because he doesn't fit the mold. They just love the safe picks, even when it comes to selecting a new GM and HC. Lot of good it's done us so far.



Yeah those four Lombardi's look terrible in the trophy case.

Are we still reaching for SBs we won how many years ago.. How have the Giants looked lately? Safe organization who make safe moves, Letís draft a OT start Eli win 6 games and beat our chest about how classy we are.. The Giants way
RE: RE: RE: Some of you guys still think like Giants management  
Eman11 : 2/2/2019 2:49 pm : link
In comment 14284467 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:
In comment 14283974 Eman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 14283971 SHO'NUFF said:


Quote:


pass on a player because he doesn't fit the mold. They just love the safe picks, even when it comes to selecting a new GM and HC. Lot of good it's done us so far.



Yeah those four Lombardi's look terrible in the trophy case.


Are we still reaching for SBs we won how many years ago.. How have the Giants looked lately? Safe organization who make safe moves, Letís draft a OT start Eli win 6 games and beat our chest about how classy we are.. The Giants way


I'm not reaching for anything. To say "lot of good it's done us so far" is way off base IMO and I'm simply point out how wrong that statement is.

The "Giants way" has won us fans four Super Bowls. That's a lot more than most teams,and I'll take that over being a fan of teams who've never even sniffed a SB win, let alone win four of them.

RE: Haskins vs Murray  
Tuckrule : 2/2/2019 3:57 pm : link
In comment 14283863 Archer said:
Quote:
For those who prefer Haskins I suggest that you rewatch his games
Haskins is a good QB but not great and has limited upside

Haskins is not a fast twitch or sudden player
He has slow footwork and a long delivery with a hitch
He is a prototype drop back passer but he does not have an extremely strong arm
He can extend plays with his strength but he is not explosive
Haskins upside is limited

It is not that I dislike Haskins , he just is not Murray
Murray has an unlimited upside based upon his skill set
There is risk in Kyler but I would rather take a chance on greatness


Might be the worst breakdown of what Haskins can do that Iíve read anywhere not just Bbi. Haskins has a very strong accurate arm. He does not extend plays at all with size or anything of te sort. Being tough to bring down is differnt from extending plays with strength. He never climbs the pocket he always bails out and rolls. He can throw on the run well. His footwork, especially under pressure, is terrible. His throwing motion does not have a hitch in it. He has a very quick release. I really question what your watching or who youíre getting information from. Either way itís brutal. Carry on.
RE: Itís not a lame excuse  
Hsilwek92 : 2/2/2019 6:13 pm : link
In comment 14284018 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
some people donít like answering questions on camera. Thatís an absolute fact. Easy for you to say how he should act but it very well could be something he doesnít like doing. Or maybe heís an idiot, I donít know but Iím certainly not jumping to conclusions on it.


Please. It is a lame excuse and now youíre just making lame excuses for him. Some people donít like answering questions on camera? Seriously? He knew what he was getting into with the two sport stuff. Whatís he going to do if he decides to play in the NFL instead of MLB? Cameras will be in his face all the time, especially if heís drafted in the first round. What will be the excuse then should he pull the same stuff?
i doubt GMEN consider him at 6 pick  
giantstock : 2/3/2019 11:23 am : link
Not after what DG said last year. And basically the Giant way.

I don't know how he'd be and he would be fun and exciting but- not as much as his height -- but his weight - he's a huge risk.

I'd be shocked if they took him at 6.
Iím still laughing at the people  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2019 11:30 am : link
who are adamant Murrayís production against Alabama was in garbage time. You think Savanna enjoyed watching him put his team back in the game? Ask Belichick how he felt in the second half against KC 2 weeks ago.

Great coaches donít let up. Saban wasnít letting OK score for the fuck of it. Give Murray and the coaches credit for adjusting, those things matter.
RE: Iím still laughing at the people  
Eman11 : 2/3/2019 11:48 am : link
In comment 14285106 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
who are adamant Murrayís production against Alabama was in garbage time. You think Savanna enjoyed watching him put his team back in the game? Ask Belichick how he felt in the second half against KC 2 weeks ago.

Great coaches donít let up. Saban wasnít letting OK score for the fuck of it. Give Murray and the coaches credit for adjusting, those things matter.


I don't think Saban was letting OUscore, he was just content once they got the big lead to let OU use clock to do it.

I also think the players on D didn't intentionally let up, they just gave in to human nature and like a lot of us, thought the game was over early. They did their jobs when needed early and once they got the big lead, lost that same edge and fire they came out with.

It's not what a fan would want to see but it's understandable IMO. I know I felt like changing the channel a few times during that game because I felt it was over early.
I donít disagree about the fans angle  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2019 12:02 pm : link
but itís just that. No coach would be happy just playing soft defense, let alone for over 2 quarters. Too much time, too easy for a player like Murray to score.

Brady was praised when down 28-3. Mahomes lit it up for 31 points 2 weeks ago in the 2nd half and probably should have won the game. No coach is going soft for that long a period of time. Murray had no turnovers either, itís not like he gave the game away. Give the kid credit.
RE: Haskins vs Murray  
PatersonPlank : 2/3/2019 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14283863 Archer said:
Quote:
For those who prefer Haskins I suggest that you rewatch his games
Haskins is a good QB but not great and has limited upside

Haskins is not a fast twitch or sudden player
He has slow footwork and a long delivery with a hitch
He is a prototype drop back passer but he does not have an extremely strong arm
He can extend plays with his strength but he is not explosive
Haskins upside is limited

It is not that I dislike Haskins , he just is not Murray
Murray has an unlimited upside based upon his skill set
There is risk in Kyler but I would rather take a chance on greatness


Such a one-sided, unfair characterization of Haskins. Based on this you would have passed on Mannings, Brees, Big BEn, Rivers, Marino, Brady, etc etc. I don't want a "fast twitch" QB. I want a QB who has size so he can see the whole field, is mobile enough to buy time but not necessarily a runner, a big arm, and an accurate arm. Keep your "fast twitch" desire for RB and WR.
RE: I donít disagree about the fans angle  
Eman11 : 2/3/2019 12:10 pm : link
In comment 14285145 UConn4523 said:
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but itís just that. No coach would be happy just playing soft defense, let alone for over 2 quarters. Too much time, too easy for a player like Murray to score.

Brady was praised when down 28-3. Mahomes lit it up for 31 points 2 weeks ago in the 2nd half and probably should have won the game. No coach is going soft for that long a period of time. Murray had no turnovers either, itís not like he gave the game away. Give the kid credit.


It would be a lot easier for me to give him some credit if he did anything in the first quarter when it was still a game. Even one score against Bama's D when they were going full bore mentally as well as physically would do it for me.

He obviously made a lot of plays in the game but I just have a nagging type feeling it happened when it didn't matter anymore. I'm not saying I'm 100% right on that, it's just my impression from watching that game play out.

I do agree no coach, especially Saban is going to make it easy for a team to score even if using clock. That said, I also think he saw how his O could pretty much score whenever they needed or wanted to, and that played into his thinking for his D as well.
RE: RE: RE: Tremendous risk with a limit on upside  
csb : 2/3/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14283698 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 14283596 Giants38 said:


Quote:


In comment 14283576 Sy'56 said:


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Not exactly. I don't think he is an NFL QB and that opinion will stay. He is a fun player to watch, but so was Eric Crouch.


Eric Crouch is a tough comp. Crouch threw for 1,500 yards his Heisman year, Kyler threw for ~4,000. Murray also has a far superior arm to Crouch.
I guess any QB that doesnít look great  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2019 2:23 pm : link
all game against Bama isnít worth considering.
RE: Some of you guys still think like Giants management  
djm : 2/3/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14283971 SHO'NUFF said:
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pass on a player because he doesn't fit the mold. They just love the safe picks, even when it comes to selecting a new GM and HC. Lot of good it's done us so far.


Right. Except when they went with a rookie HC in mcadoo or when they hired coughlin much to the chagrin of many so called experts or when they drafted Barkley, a RB, when the entire free world was going ape shit about taking a qb or when they traded up for Eli and took tons of abuse or when they signed Kerry Collins who was basically toxic or Christian Peter or when they signed Burress to a FA deal even though he was considered a bit dangerous or risky or how they outspent the entire NFL in FA during the 2015-2016 offseason.

Yeah, all they do is take the safe route.
RE: I guess any QB that doesnít look great  
Eman11 : 2/3/2019 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14285242 UConn4523 said:
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all game against Bama isnít worth considering.


I'm not sure where you're getting that, at least not from anything I've said.

I simply said I would've liked to see him perform as well in the beginning of the game when it mattered and was still a game, and not just when the game for all intents and purposes was over.

You're free to take whatever analysis of his play from that game as you want. The same as the rest of us are, but the fact is he did diddly squat when it mattered, and that's my biggest knock on him from that game.
The whole game mattered  
UConn4523 : 2/3/2019 4:36 pm : link
thatís my point. Pointing at 1 game where he had 1 bad quarter against the top team in the nation is just strange. And not only that but apparently Nick saban was just letting them gain yardage and didnít care if they scored. Thatís a narrative Iím not buying. We see teams fold all the time in OKs situation, and they didnít. You also donít know how much of it was on being ill prepared in all other facets of the game. They were down 21 points after 13 minutes...

As I said before we arenít going to agree on this, I just canít really see your POV. If we go back to Mayfields last game (a loss to Georgia) or all of the lackluster games that Darnold and Rosen played, what exactly is the problem with Murrayís bad quarter in regards to his draft standing?
RE: The whole game mattered  
Eman11 : 2/3/2019 4:58 pm : link
In comment 14285353 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
thatís my point. Pointing at 1 game where he had 1 bad quarter against the top team in the nation is just strange. And not only that but apparently Nick saban was just letting them gain yardage and didnít care if they scored. Thatís a narrative Iím not buying. We see teams fold all the time in OKs situation, and they didnít. You also donít know how much of it was on being ill prepared in all other facets of the game. They were down 21 points after 13 minutes...

As I said before we arenít going to agree on this, I just canít really see your POV. If we go back to Mayfields last game (a loss to Georgia) or all of the lackluster games that Darnold and Rosen played, what exactly is the problem with Murrayís bad quarter in regards to his draft standing?


I think maybe you're reading something into my posts that aren't actually there. I never said we shouldn't draft him or even consider drafting him or that game should affect his draft status.

I only said I agreed with arc about not giving him a lot of credit for the Bama game. Had he played well out of the chute I wouldn't hesitate giving him credit for that game but that's not what happened.

I just don't give him as much credit for his 2nd half as you and others do, because I felt it came in what was an already decided game, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Not whether he should play in the NFL, if he can, where he should be drafted or anything else. I was just giving my opinion on how I looked at his performance in that game.

I would've been a helluva lot more impressed had he done anything early, (he only completed one of five passes in the first 17 minutes) and even more so if they were as ill prepared as you think they might've been. Personally, I'm not buying that as I think they were more outclassed than out coached or prepared.
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