Kyler Murray

I would keep Eli as well and go into the season with Murray as the #2 QB and use him in packages as the Ravens did with Lamar Jackson. This would allow Murray time to add bulk to his frame while learning the offense.

Once he is exposed to NFL defenses it would become readily apparent he is not the franchise qb and the Giants would become the Browns, brining in used up has beens and never were's and drafting a qb every year.

20-30 pounds?

Unfortunately, the Giants have only 2 starting caliber NFL players on the offensive line under contract, Solder and Hernandez.

There has to be a lot of progress at C, RG, and RT.

Or they will be easily stopped.

In comment 14283447 SterlingArcher said:

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Once he is exposed to NFL defenses it would become readily apparent he is not the franchise qb and the Giants would become the Browns, brining in used up has beens and never were's and drafting a qb every year.

+1000 - He was awful in the Alabama game the first real defense he saw all year. Big 12 isn't known for their D

will be soon enough to see his height and weight.

If he's 5'9" and 185 as rumored, that's 30 pounds lighter than most of the QB's he's generally compared to.

it will create a whole new dynamic, and the only question from there is health. I say fuck it, draft him and take advantage of him with Barkley and Beckham in their primes.

I don't think there's any question about his preference to play football over baseball. He not only seems to like football better but if successful he's got the opportunity to make way more money in the short term in the NFL, possibly long term too.

and not 6 or 7? Why not 10? Absolutely hate those posts.

We stink now and have been for the better part of 7 years now, so what's the difference?

if you believe listed weights online.

Brees 209 (hard for me to believe)

Wilson 206

Murray 194

In comment 14283454 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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will be soon enough to see his height and weight. If he's 5'9" and 185 as rumored, that's 30 pounds lighter than most of the QB's he's generally compared to.

I'm a little lighter than that. Haha. Same height, but a little lighter than 185.

Do it for us little guys, Kyler! But in all seriousness, I wouldn't even consider Kyler at 6. Not even for a second.

In comment 14283450 Big Blue '56 said:

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20-30 pounds?

Wilson weighed 205 when he was drafted, 9 lbs. heavier than Murray is listed at right now. And Wilson was 24 years old when he was drafted. We will see what Murray measures out at combine but comparing what a grown Wilson weighs today to what Murray weighs as a 21 year old is a bit disingenuous. Wilson wasn’t much bigger when drafted, and 3 years older.

to build an offense that takes advantage of his skill set.
They will look for a QB that fits their system.
Part of the reason why I am not a fan of either one.

Zero doubt in my mind Murray can play. I'd be excited about the prospect of him here. But I'd just be counting down the snaps until he wound up on the sideline.

I really don't think he's any heavier than 190 right now. 185-190 is probably more likely.

Murray has to move to be effective in the NFL. No one is going to turn him into a pocket passer and have it work.

I just keep going back to the fact that the last 2 QB's standing again are pure pocket guys that teams basically have zero concern with as far as running. I think Goff fumbled like 12 times this year actually.. so McVay definitely doesn't want him running around outside the pocket with the ball.

Last year it was Brady and Foles.

Then it was Brady and Ryan.

Wilson and Kaepernick are literally the only two guys in this type of QB mold who have made it that far in decades.

I realize the league evolves and changes and that players like this were less common years ago - the rules are also slanted in a way where a player like Murray is more viable now than he otherwise may have been in the past.

But I still just think it's a risk and would rather hitch my wagon to Haskins. I am more confident in him being a QB we can rely on.

To take a chance on anyone or anything at 6. They need to go with what player they see as close to a sure thing as possible IMO.

If that's Murray, then fine but they can't be rolling the dice with this pick.

One year to figure out if he can really play.

If he starts with baseball, it is 2 or 3 years before he will get to the major league level. His college stats were solid but not outstanding.

I'm just warming to this pick. It was the Alabama game that started me
on this path.

Everything was heading south in the first half. I was very impressed
with how he reacted, and led his offense to a much stronger
second half.

I agree that he can fit and expand our offense of moving pockets and QB sprint outs.

It may be too much of an outside the box move for our Giants, but I
believe it has real possibilities.

I would keep and start Eli, then see how things develop. It would be a lot of fun to watch. Must see TV!

He was small as a college QB and will be tiny in the NFL.

I don't think the NFL is going to work out for the guy.

.

In comment 14283453 Giantsfan79 said:

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In comment 14283447 SterlingArcher said: Quote: Once he is exposed to NFL defenses it would become readily apparent he is not the franchise qb and the Giants would become the Browns, brining in used up has beens and never were's and drafting a qb every year. +1000 - He was awful in the Alabama game the first real defense he saw all year. Big 12 isn't known for their D

I'll agree the Big12 isn't known for their D.... but Murray didn't play 'awful' vs 'Bama

19/37 308 2 TD Passing
17/109 1 TD Rushing

He didn't start out good, lots of incompletions, but after the 1st qtr, he was pretty damn good.

I'm hesitant to give Murray much credit for the Bama game. Most of his numbers came when the game had already more or less been decided. When it was still early and up for grabs, he was really unimpressive and struggled.

In comment 14283486 Eman11 said:

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To take a chance on anyone or anything at 6. They need to go with what player they see as close to a sure thing as possible IMO. If that's Murray, then fine but they can't be rolling the dice with this pick.

+1,000

In comment 14283491 ATL_Giants said:

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He was small as a college QB and will be tiny in the NFL. I don't think the NFL is going to work out for the guy.

He won't be any smaller in the NFL than he was in college and he's done pretty well there. Where do you think NFL players come from?

Put me down for Murray.

After years of watching Reese fumble the draft, picking for need is no longer an option, IMO. If the BPA happens to be a 'need', so much the better, but acquire as much talent as possible, regardless of 'need'.

At QB with 6th pick I rather swing for the fences of greatness and take Murray then Haskins. However I doubt shurmur sees either of these guys fitting his system

In comment 14283494 Bramton1 said:

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.

Like Brady?

In comment 14283484 arcarsenal said:

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Zero doubt in my mind Murray can play. I'd be excited about the prospect of him here. But I'd just be counting down the snaps until he wound up on the sideline. I really don't think he's any heavier than 190 right now. 185-190 is probably more likely. Murray has to move to be effective in the NFL. No one is going to turn him into a pocket passer and have it work. I just keep going back to the fact that the last 2 QB's standing again are pure pocket guys that teams basically have zero concern with as far as running. I think Goff fumbled like 12 times this year actually.. so McVay definitely doesn't want him running around outside the pocket with the ball. Last year it was Brady and Foles. Then it was Brady and Ryan. Wilson and Kaepernick are literally the only two guys in this type of QB mold who have made it that far in decades. I realize the league evolves and changes and that players like this were less common years ago - the rules are also slanted in a way where a player like Murray is more viable now than he otherwise may have been in the past. But I still just think it's a risk and would rather hitch my wagon to Haskins. I am more confident in him being a QB we can rely on.

Newton was in the SB.

And Murray sounds closer to Wilson (or McNabb/McNair) than Kaepernick/Vick/Lamar Jackson with his passing ability and ability to read defenses. His scouting reports read more like a (very) mobile pocket passer than a run first QB that needs to learn to read defenses.

In comment 14283458 UConn4523 said:

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and not 6 or 7? Why not 10? Absolutely hate those posts. We stink now and have been for the better part of 7 years now, so what's the difference?

15 years we'll look back and say...."man those Omameh & Stewart contracts still kill us"

are ignoring the most important aspect of that game and that was the adjustments made. He also put 400+ yards by himself on that defense as well as 34 points.

I'm fine with anyone who thinks he's too small. But he has a lot of what you can't teach, and is accurate enough to make the NFL required throws. That's on top of being absolutely electric.

I too would rather risk it with him than settle on a lesser talented player.

Putting aside what Shurmur's system really involves, Shurmur's offense was quite successful with the semi-mobile Keenum two years ago. PS designed lots of roll-outs and constantly moved the pocket to aid the Vikes poor OL. Shurmur's also made comments since the season ended about a mobile QB being preferable as it opens up more options.

If you go back further (or look at Eli this year), perhaps the most important thing for Shurmur is accuracy. IIRC, Bradford set a record in 2016 for comp% and Eli just shattered his previous career high in that regards. At least from his college stats, it would appear Murray excels in this regards (69% this past season).

In comment 14283455 UConn4523 said:

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it will create a whole new dynamic, and the only question from there is health. I say fuck it, draft him and take advantage of him with Barkley and Beckham in their primes. I don't think there's any question about his preference to play football over baseball. He not only seems to like football better but if successful he's got the opportunity to make way more money in the short term in the NFL, possibly long term too.

I am fully on board with this. I think it's time to stop looking at the QB position as needing to get a guy like Eli for the next 15 years. If you think he can be effective for 5 years, bring him in and take advantage of his unique skill set while OBJ and Barkley are in their primes.

If he is ineffective or oft injured, you will be drafting high again in a few years and then you get another cost controlled QB and you adapt the offense to what he is does best.

guy has the quickness to avoid the big hits. He looks like he can be special. Seems like he fits better into the new NFL than he would have in the past. I think he would make the Giants a better team.

Still way too soon to know if he is a worthwhile pick at #6.

In comment 14283516 giants#1 said:

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In comment 14283484 arcarsenal said: Quote: Zero doubt in my mind Murray can play. I'd be excited about the prospect of him here. But I'd just be counting down the snaps until he wound up on the sideline. I really don't think he's any heavier than 190 right now. 185-190 is probably more likely. Murray has to move to be effective in the NFL. No one is going to turn him into a pocket passer and have it work. I just keep going back to the fact that the last 2 QB's standing again are pure pocket guys that teams basically have zero concern with as far as running. I think Goff fumbled like 12 times this year actually.. so McVay definitely doesn't want him running around outside the pocket with the ball. Last year it was Brady and Foles. Then it was Brady and Ryan. Wilson and Kaepernick are literally the only two guys in this type of QB mold who have made it that far in decades. I realize the league evolves and changes and that players like this were less common years ago - the rules are also slanted in a way where a player like Murray is more viable now than he otherwise may have been in the past. But I still just think it's a risk and would rather hitch my wagon to Haskins. I am more confident in him being a QB we can rely on. Newton was in the SB. And Murray sounds closer to Wilson (or McNabb/McNair) than Kaepernick/Vick/Lamar Jackson with his passing ability and ability to read defenses. His scouting reports read more like a (very) mobile pocket passer than a run first QB that needs to learn to read defenses.

Newton is huge, though. It's not even worth comparing. And even he has taken a massive beating over the years. His body seems like it's falling apart.

I agree Murray is more like Wilson than Kaepernick - I'm just illustrating that pure pocket passers are the guys who keep winding up in Super Bowls despite this same "revolutionary" argument that keeps managing to pop up each year.

Murray can play. But anyone denying the risks associated with the size and style of play just aren't being honest.

and more concerned with whether or not Gettleman has the stones to hitch his wagon to such a risky pick, especially after all of his talk about how if you pick a QB you better pick right. How much do you trust your scouting department?

chance we draft him

He's really short, and throwing over these massive lineman will be an issue. Plus everyone is bigger, faster, and hits harder. Basically all the things he did in college to be successful will be minimized/taken away in the pro's. I bet after a short period of getting thrown around like a doll, and not having much success, he will run back to baseball as fast as he can

Way too many variables to take him at 6, variables that go beyond his height. However, teams would be foolish to remove him from their board. I think he'll be there at the bottom 3rd of the first round and that's the point in the draft the Giants should be aggressively working the phones to grab him.

seems to be pretty risk adverse in round 1, especially top 10. Ultra talented kid, but he would be a massive risk with his size.

If the Giants select a QB with the 6th pick I would prefer Murray.

I do not think that the other QBs have the potential upside or physical skills that Murray has.

He has a strong arm, he is an accurate passer, he can throw from many platforms, he can throw from the pocket, he can throw on the run, he is scary as a runner, has a very fast release, he is a winner, and he is a legend in Texas for his high school play.

If the Giants take a QB with their first pick it should be Murray. All of the other QBs are pedestrian and lack the physical,skills to be great.

but it didn't look like Murray was on the set with Golic & Wingo. Were Golic's comments based on meeting Murray at some point in Atlanta?

Another thing about Murray - his hands appear small and his arms appear short. Maybe it's just TV, but everything just seems to be below average...even for this new NFL.

If he chooses football and goes to the Combine, it's going to be fascinating what all of his measurables are.

In comment 14283550 PatersonPlank said:

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He's really short, and throwing over these massive lineman will be an issue. Plus everyone is bigger, faster, and hits harder. Basically all the things he did in college to be successful will be minimized/taken away in the pro's. I bet after a short period of getting thrown around like a doll, and not having much success, he will run back to baseball as fast as he can

See that just isn't true. Why will it just all of a sudden be taken away from him in the pros? Will he no longer be faster than everyone? Sure the competition is a lot better, but so should the players around him. Did he play with a Barkley or Beckham in college?

Again, the size/injury risk is real, I'll never argue anyone who's scared off by that. But some of the other stuff that's getting thrown around just isn't true and/or can't be proven at all.

Brees is 6ft. And he's not a running QB. Just no comparison there.

Wilson is probably the better comparison.

In comment 14283500 arcarsenal said:

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I'm hesitant to give Murray much credit for the Bama game. Most of his numbers came when the game had already more or less been decided. When it was still early and up for grabs, he was really unimpressive and struggled.

Once again arc I'm in complete agreement with you. Murray didn't do anything until the game was already lost. Even though that was early in the game he had opportunities to keep his team in it early and did nothing.

Yes he brought them back somewhat in the 2nd half and put up some impressive numbers but I felt all the while Bama had taken their foot off the gas. If he had done anything early I would feel differently but right or wrong I feel the numbers he put up in that game were pretty much when the game was already lost.

In comment 14283544 arcarsenal said:

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I agree Murray is more like Wilson than Kaepernick - I'm just illustrating that pure pocket passers are the guys who keep winding up in Super Bowls despite this same "revolutionary" argument that keeps managing to pop up each year. Murray can play. But anyone denying the risks associated with the size and style of play just aren't being honest.

I agree the "revolutionary" argument is pure BS and would have no interest in a QB like Lamar Jackson. But from what I read, Murray is a pass first QB that can run like Wentz/Wilson/Luck.

There's definitely a higher injury risk even with that style than a pure pocket passer like Eli, but if he's smart about how and when he runs (more Wilson than Wentz) then he can have a long career in the league. I don't think you want your QB taking 8-10 hits/game, but a QB with escapability that can extend plays is a plus, and a QB that can take advantage of an overly aggressive D with a run option (see Dak against the Giants) or take off and pick up 10+ yards when the D is in man coverage is a major plus.

In comment 14283564 Eman11 said:

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In comment 14283500 arcarsenal said: Quote: I'm hesitant to give Murray much credit for the Bama game. Most of his numbers came when the game had already more or less been decided. When it was still early and up for grabs, he was really unimpressive and struggled. Once again arc I'm in complete agreement with you. Murray didn't do anything until the game was already lost. Even though that was early in the game he had opportunities to keep his team in it early and did nothing. Yes he brought them back somewhat in the 2nd half and put up some impressive numbers but I felt all the while Bama had taken their foot off the gas. If he had done anything early I would feel differently but right or wrong I feel the numbers he put up in that game were pretty much when the game was already lost.

Yup. OU's defense couldn't stop Bama's offense... they just kept going right down the field and scoring. Murray couldn't keep up and the game got out of reach quickly.

Bama had already backed off by the time he started putting up numbers and points. They knew OU wasn't going to stop them, so all they were doing was giving up yards and trying to prevent OU from quick scores that could get them back within reach.

In comment 14283552 ryanmkeane said:

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seems to be pretty risk adverse in round 1, especially top 10. Ultra talented kid, but he would be a massive risk with his size.

They made one pick and selected one of the most highly ranked prospects ever.

But I will be honest, it would be exciting and fun to watch

In comment 14283550 PatersonPlank said:

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He's really short, and throwing over these massive lineman will be an issue.

This is the sort of thing that has been repeated over and over again for so many years that its stated as a fact, when its never been proven.

You do know that college linemen are massive as well, right? You do know that college linemen become NFL linemen, and that they don't keep getting taller?

is a short-term gain vs. a long-term one. Cam Newton is only 29 years old and has taken 8 years of punishment and he's been breaking down and many believe he's going to quickly slide from here. Carson Wentz has missed 12 games the past two seasons.

The risk of the QB getting hurt exists for all of them, but the downsize is what happens when it knocks out the #6 pick in the draft and one you build around? Look at Indy after Luck was out.

You are one hit away from Lauletta playing. The Redskins were fortunate that Cousins was on the roster. The RGIII pick was toast after one season (a playoff season), then they faced having a first round pick shelved and the void that causes to a roster. They are still looking for a QB.

What if Murray delivers us a playoff berth and then suffers the same fate?

this guy is too little and he stinks...flashback Tarkington, Mayfield, Flutie...etc if this is the case he would been sitting the bench in college instead of being named the best player in the nation....but pricks will be pricks plus they never played the game...

for not having the team more prepared on offense in the first half or is this just a Murray thing? He played a bad first quarter and then recovered instead of folding like a lawnchair, that's a good thing.