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If we pass on QB again...what's the overall feeling here?

ryanmkeane : 2/1/2019 1:48 pm
Been thinking about this for a few days. Let's say we are up at 6 and every QB in the draft is available. Haskins, Lock, Murray, whoever, pick your poison. Gettleman passes and goes for someone like Devin White, a DL, or hell maybe even Jonah Williams if he's there. What's everyone opinion on the immediate reaction? Me - I probably have a pit in my stomach knowing that they are passing the buck again on QB, but ultimately probably didn't fall in love with any of the prospects, making the decision explainable for sure. I'd be thinking "we better pray that none of these QBs turn out to be the goods." I'd also be thinking, I hope we go 5-11 again because if we win 7-9 games, we'll have to trade the farm for a top QB next year, when a somewhat better class of QBs are available.

I will just be really disappointed if we pass again. I'm sick of losing and I'm kinda sick of Eli sucking every other game. I think the franchise needs a jolt, or at the very least, hope for the future that we have our guy. The thought of not knowing AGAIN for another year would just be brutal.

I'd also start to question the overall direction of the team. I'd start to think that maybe Gettleman and Shurmur think that teams can win championships or at the very least go pretty far without a franchise caliber QB (like the Vikings with Keenum). Do they truly believe that the QB is the most important position among all others and if you don't have a really good one, you can't compete year over year.

It's definitely going to be interesting. One thing I know for sure is that I'm still of the opinion that Haskins + Barkley is better than Darnold and no Barkley. I'm going to be somewhat shocked if we don't take a QB, and it'll just take the air out of the room on draft night for a lot of us I think..
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I want the Giants to take the BPA at #6.  
Mr. Bungle : 2/1/2019 1:52 pm : link
In my opinion, that won't be a QB, because none of them will be the BPA at 6.
I don't think  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/1/2019 1:54 pm : link
any of these QBs are worth taking @ 6 so I'll be relieved.
RE: I want the Giants to take the BPA at #6.  
ryanmkeane : 2/1/2019 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14283674 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In my opinion, that won't be a QB, because none of them will be the BPA at 6.

OK, in that scenario...you're confident we can get a QB in 2020?
I don't think the 2020 QB's  
UConn4523 : 2/1/2019 1:58 pm : link
should have any influence on our 2019 draft or FA signings. Tua may be hurt, Fromm may regress, etc. Just too many variables to hitch your wagon to a 19/20 year old that still needs to play 10+ games without getting injured. And that's on top of not even knowing where you will be drafting since "tanking" isn't in the cards.

I'm fine not selecting a QB this year but that has to be because they didn't like who was available, not because they think next year will be the year.
I just haven't heard any other scenarios  
ryanmkeane : 2/1/2019 1:59 pm : link
other than "these QBs aren't worth the 6th pick"...ok...so...what's the alternative plan for the future QB of this team?
It am what it am.  
section125 : 2/1/2019 2:00 pm : link
Gonna let DG figure it out and then deal with Go Terps....
I want BPA at #6.  
Diver_Down : 2/1/2019 2:01 pm : link
I don't think any of the QBs will be worth the #6 pick. Many are looking at Edge, but at #6, I don't want the 4th highest rated Edge if the #1 Corner or #1 OL is still on the board.

I'm not concerned about winning too many games and being out of reach of the top QBs. This team has a ton of holes. Our defense is trash, and we have 2 starting OL. If DG fixes the OL, great. But our defense will still be terrible. If DG addresses the D solely with a patchwork OL, then the offense will struggle again.
I don't want any of the QBs at 6  
Chip : 2/1/2019 2:02 pm : link
Take either OL or best player on the defense front 7.
I’d be fine..  
Sean : 2/1/2019 2:03 pm : link
Honestly, it would make me feel better because they are sticking to a plan of BPA.

It will be a tough sell personally if the Giants take Haskins #6 after Gettleman said everything about NOT forcing a QB pick last year.

On the counter, I’m also intrigued by Haskins, but based on what DG said last year he shouldn’t be the pick.
RE: RE: I want the Giants to take the BPA at #6.  
Mr. Bungle : 2/1/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14283677 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
OK, in that scenario...you're confident we can get a QB in 2020?

In my opinion, you can't just lock in on any position -- even QB -- especially with a pick as high as 6. What if these QBs are no better than Blaine Gabbart or Christian Ponder or Blake Bortles? You don't draft a QB with the #6 overall because "quaretrback."

I want the Giants to rank all prospects, cross off each name that is taken in the top 5, and then draft the highest name not crossed out on their list. If that ends up being a fantastic NFL pass rusher, would you really be disappointed?
not overly enamored with any QBs this year  
Greg from LI : 2/1/2019 2:09 pm : link
so I'd be fine
RE: RE: RE: I want the Giants to take the BPA at #6.  
ryanmkeane : 2/1/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14283703 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
If that ends up being a fantastic NFL pass rusher, would you really be disappointed?

If we got a great pass rusher at 6, that's awesome. I'd still be disappointed knowing that QB is 100x more important than a pass rusher, and we would have passed the buck on the QB decision again for another year.
I'm good with it either way.  
x meadowlander : 2/1/2019 2:10 pm : link
Giants NEED a replacement for Eli, but at #6, nothing jumps out as a MUST PICK QB.

I want an anchor OT or something nasty for the front 7.

RE: I don't think the 2020 QB's  
barens : 2/1/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14283682 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
should have any influence on our 2019 draft or FA signings. Tua may be hurt, Fromm may regress, etc. Just too many variables to hitch your wagon to a 19/20 year old that still needs to play 10+ games without getting injured. And that's on top of not even knowing where you will be drafting since "tanking" isn't in the cards.

I'm fine not selecting a QB this year but that has to be because they didn't like who was available, not because they think next year will be the year.


Maybe so, but often times, when one QB regresses, another ascends. I know that's neither here nor there, I just struggle with the idea that if the Giants didn't like the QB's in the first round last year, they really can't like them this year.

I'm sure that someone will be added thru FA, whether they are a big name or not will determine Eli's future and where we think they will go in the draft.
Since the edict seems to be that Eli is still the QB,  
Go Terps : 2/1/2019 2:14 pm : link
spending a premium pick at QB makes no sense. No point in wasting a season of a rookie contract on the bench.
RE: Since the edict seems to be that Eli is still the QB,  
ryanmkeane : 2/1/2019 2:15 pm : link
In comment 14283713 Go Terps said:
Quote:
spending a premium pick at QB makes no sense. No point in wasting a season of a rookie contract on the bench.

There's no point in a rookie QB learning from the bench? Is that a joke or are you serious? There's countless examples of this being great for the player.
I'm fine  
Pep22 : 2/1/2019 2:17 pm : link
w/ Saquon over QB decision because he's a rare player. But to go into yet another season with Eli and no prospect of improving that position (matter of fact the opposite) would be the epitome of QB hell.

Also, I am not in the camp that says Darnold, Allen, Rosen are better than this year's crop. I do think Mayfield is better than all and also think Jackson is worse than all.
If we pass on a QB in 2019 then so be it  
Jimmy Googs : 2/1/2019 2:17 pm : link
as I would hope it was solely because there wasn't a QB worth taking.

But all it does is increase the pressure of taking a QB in 2020 immensely as well as the related risk of overpaying/overdrafting...
I am not convinced on any of this year's QBs.  
Red Dog : 2/1/2019 2:17 pm : link
Using a first round pick on a QB with just one year of starting experience is really risky - remember Akili Smith. And I am in agreement with DG that choosing the wrong QB sets you back FIVE years.

On the other hand, it is abundantly clear that the GIANTS need to find Eli's successor and do it soon. Still, getting his successor in place is NOT going to turn this team into a serious Super Bowl contender because there are just too many other weaknesses that need to be rectified.

All that said, I am not sold on any of the QBs in the draft this year. However, next year looks like it could develop into one of those really great years for QBs. So don't force a QB pick this year. The team has too many other major needs to take care of. If there's nobody at QB that deserves to be the #6 pick, plan ahead and get ready to get the QB next year.

So for this year, take the best player available at a position of need, which currently includes DE, OLB, FS, and ORT at the top of the list followed by CB, G, C, ILB, and even a BIG WR or a true two-way TE which they just don't have now.

If none of them seem like the right pick at #6, trade down getting a first round pick, or at least a second rounder plus something else significant in the 2020 draft as part of the deal. And the point was made earlier, and I agree with this too, that they can't trade down too far. Dropping back a few slots won't hurt a bit, but don't trade back into the 20s or lower unless it brings an absolute king's ramsom.
RE:  
Mr. Bungle : 2/1/2019 2:19 pm : link
In comment 14283713 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No point in wasting a season of a rookie contract on the bench.

Like Mahomes? And Goff?
...  
Mdgiantsfan : 2/1/2019 2:21 pm : link
First reaction is to just extend Eli two more years beyond 2019 and take BPA at 6.
RE: I'm fine  
ryanmkeane : 2/1/2019 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14283717 Pep22 said:
Quote:
w/ Saquon over QB decision because he's a rare player. But to go into yet another season with Eli and no prospect of improving that position (matter of fact the opposite) would be the epitome of QB hell.

Also, I am not in the camp that says Darnold, Allen, Rosen are better than this year's crop. I do think Mayfield is better than all and also think Jackson is worse than all.

+1
It seems every year  
ryanmkeane : 2/1/2019 2:22 pm : link
we are just making excuses for all of these QBs not being good. Basically what we are saying is the 10 QBs that we looked at from 2018 to 2019...nope, none of them can be a great franchise QB. That's what we are saying if we go another year without taking one. It's getting a bit ridiculous..
RE: RE:  
since1925 : 2/1/2019 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14283723 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 14283713 Go Terps said: Quote: No point in wasting a season of a rookie contract on the bench.


Like Mahomes? And Goff?


There are no Mahomes or Goff's in this QB class. When are people going to stop dreaming and wake up. This is a bad year to draft a QB. And I wish we hadn't thrown away picks on Lauletta, Webb and especially Nassib.
since1925  
ryanmkeane : 2/1/2019 2:25 pm : link
Haskins is actually being compared to Goff in a lot of ways
RE: RE: RE:  
Mr. Bungle : 2/1/2019 2:25 pm : link
In comment 14283738 since1925 said:
Quote:
In comment 14283723 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


In comment 14283713 Go Terps said: Quote: No point in wasting a season of a rookie contract on the bench.


Like Mahomes? And Goff?



There are no Mahomes or Goff's in this QB class. When are people going to stop dreaming and wake up. This is a bad year to draft a QB. And I wish we hadn't thrown away picks on Lauletta, Webb and especially Nassib.

You completely missed my point. Not even in the same area code.
I'm good with BPA  
cjac : 2/1/2019 2:28 pm : link
the thing i don't want is reaching for anyone, especially a QB

Will there be  
Gman11 : 2/1/2019 2:29 pm : link
another player available that is touched by the hand of god? If not, draft the QB.
RE: Will there be  
Pep22 : 2/1/2019 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14283747 Gman11 said:
Quote:
another player available that is touched by the hand of god? If not, draft the QB.


Well played, I agree 100%.
I love all these statements about none of the QBs being worth it  
UberAlias : 2/1/2019 2:31 pm : link
at 6. A lot of people buying into whatever story fits their narrative. I seriously doubt the teams themselves can make that assessment at this point.

There are absolutely things in Haskins and Murray in terms of pedigree, leadership, stats, athleticism, etc. that clearly check out. The main knock on Haskins are his having one year starting experience and playing with talent around him, neither of which are deal closers, just things which warrant further evaluation. For Murray the issue is obviously his size. But when a guy has that sort of off the chart skills and intangibles, size concerns aside, one would have to be foolish to close the door outright without much more direct investigation. You guys aren't even going to allow for getting him into the combine to see what his actual height and weight are or see how the height translates up close and personal in a workout?

On the surface the profiles of QB prospects are very close year to year, the perceived differences build largely on reputation or people piggybacking on things they've heard others say. Until you roll up the sleeves in detailed inspection you are going more on hunch than anything else.
my reaction  
BillyM : 2/1/2019 2:32 pm : link
steady but nervous. Which would ease if we got the right player, not a QB, at #6. Stud tackle or pass rusher. Totally satisfied
Eli Manning is going to be the QB next year, regardless.  
Brown Recluse : 2/1/2019 2:33 pm : link
So if they don't draft one this April, it won't make that much of a difference. I'd be fine with a pass rusher...which to me is a huge need.
for all practical purposes there was no Mahomes  
bluepepper : 2/1/2019 2:37 pm : link
or Goff in either of the years Mahomes and Goff were taken. Both had a lot of questions about them and were not remotely close to being slam dunks.

There's going to be risk when we take our QB. He might not be up to it. Accept that. I'd rather take the risk now but some people don't want to do it until there's literally no choice. I fear Mara and Gettleman will wait another year not because the prospects will be any better but because Eli is still around and it's the safest course.
I'd be OK with this  
mrvax : 2/1/2019 2:40 pm : link
as long as they drafted what we believe is a very good player.

However, I would wonder exactly what the Giant's plans are for getting Eli's replacement.
RE: I just haven't heard any other scenarios  
widmerseyebrow : 2/1/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14283687 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
other than "these QBs aren't worth the 6th pick"...ok...so...what's the alternative plan for the future QB of this team?


The alternative plan is continuing to build a team. We have a lot more holes than just quarterback. And selecting the wrong quarterback in round 1 is arguable much more damaging than punting until next year. Who gives a shit if we don't have the "QB of the future" for a year or two, especially if it's pinned on false hope? History shows us that many years don't have a good quarterback in spite of several being selected in the first round almost every year.
If we pass on one this year, it is because  
Beer Man : 2/1/2019 2:45 pm : link
DG/PS don't have the warm and fuzzy that anyone of this year's QB class is a franchise QB who can lead the Giants to future championships.

If that is the case, I am fine with it. I would rather they wait a year than force a pick because of need and sentence the Giants to years of QB hell; were the Giants would then become this generation's version of the 90's Barry Sanders Lions.
I have it easy as a fan.  
Big Blue '56 : 2/1/2019 2:45 pm : link
I just watch what Shurmur does or doesn’t do (via DG) re QBs in the draft and that will be my tell-all
I missed the announcement  
fkap : 2/1/2019 2:52 pm : link
that Eli is cemented as the starter. When was it?

IF Eli is the starter, it is because he's the best option for this year. If a drafted QB sits on the bench, it's because he's not ready to supplant Eli. If they don't take a QB, it's because they deemed none of them worthy of taking. It's not some grand malfunction of the Giants brain trust being stuck on Eli no matter what.

It would seem that none of the QB's are close enough to BPA to take a QB, so I'd be a little more upset if they went QB. I'll be really upset if they come out of the first round with a meh player at #6, no matter what position. I don't mind a reach, but it has to be for more than a meh player (like Pugh) or worse a bust (like Flowers).
We shouldn't pass on a QB...  
bw in dc : 2/1/2019 3:01 pm : link
this year at all.

Maybe hold off in the first round, but take one in the 2nd or 3rd round for sure. There is quality. It's getting one for the best value in the best round.

So I could live with an OL or DL at #6.

Nearly every year there is a player in the draft that ends up being a quality QB. Hell, that's why I would draft a QB every year, regardless of how my QB situation looks. You just can't have enough good ones. Not only for your team, but also as trade assets.

Trotting Eli out there for another season is a waste of time and valuable cap space. It's tragic planning.
Don't force a pick  
Steve in ATL : 2/1/2019 3:03 pm : link
on a QB that DG does not believe will be a franchise QB. If need be and the Giants think Eli is done, sign a FA or trade for a QB that Shurmur thinks he can use in his system.
Per usual  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/1/2019 3:05 pm : link
lots of people talking out their asses. None of us know what will become of these QBs. Plenty of highly touted draft prospects have flopped. Plenty of guys have played above their grade.

The common notion that these guys all suck and the 2020 class is full of sure things is arrogant oversimplification.

even though the need is greater this year,  
GiantNatty : 2/1/2019 3:08 pm : link
i won't be as upset as i was last year. last year was a bumper crop and we passed - still boggles my mind. this year it's not a good year for QBs (which makes passing last year even worse imo), so i won't fault them for taking BPA.

but make no mistake - we are in and will continue to be in QB hell for the foreseeable future and that sucks.
I’d be happy  
WillVAB : 2/1/2019 3:11 pm : link
It would mean the FO didn’t make a panic pick on a questionable QB prospect.
It really depends who we pick, if it’s not a QB.  
RDJR : 2/1/2019 3:24 pm : link
BPA is a fallacy and really it’s all about BPA at a position of need. Surely, if BPA is a RB that will not be the pick.
RE:  
Mr. Bungle : 2/1/2019 3:29 pm : link
In comment 14283789 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Maybe hold off in the first round, but take one in the 2nd or 3rd round for sure. There is quality. It's getting one for the best value in the best round.

I would definitely be intrigued by using the 2nd-round pick on a QB, if one of the more highly-touted guys (who the Giants scouts really like, of course) ends up available.

(The Giants don't have a 3rd to use.)

That could be a near-best-case-scenario, assuming they strike gold with the #6 overall pick. Get a stud non-QB at 6 and a QB candidate with some real promise as Eli's successor at #34, instead of reaching for a QB at 6 just to have the QB and then take a lesser positional player in the 2nd round.

I'm just glad it won't be Reese making the pick. At #6, he'd take a mid-20s projection, just to look like the smartest guy in the room who saw something no one else did. For all the criticism of Gettleman around here, I do like his "don't get cute" approach to these picks.
I have a question  
MotownGIANTS : 2/1/2019 3:31 pm : link
if the scare on Haskins is 2-fold "mainly" ....

He was on a talented team and his starting experience level (limited) 1.5 seasons....

I am wondering are people saying OBJ, EE, SS and SB are not talented? Yup the OL needs to improve but that is the case with Eli, another vet, a different rookie ... etc

2ndly the knock on him experience wise .... Most college QBs really only start 2 seasons on avg ... some get 2.5 in rare cases 3 very seldom do you see 4 yr starters at QB.

Not saying he should be the pick but to a degree the knocks on him are partially fabricated.
The best QB in this class is a 2nd rd talent.  
ATL_Giants : 2/1/2019 3:32 pm : link
We need a pass rusher at 6.
What separates early first rd QBs  
Dave on the UWS : 2/1/2019 3:49 pm : link
from guys picked later on? The key word last year was “pro ready” or “able to start day 1”. Besides the fact that is hyperbole and a fantasy, guys like Haskins and Lock have the arm talent and size to be “potentially” franchise guys, they would need a year or two to be ready.
Based on some reports that DG favors the KC model with Mahomes with Eli showing the draftee the ropes, I would not be surprised to see them picked. Come draft time they would have to rank close to 6 though in their minds.
So if you believe there is good value in this draft for a QB in Rd 2  
Jimmy Googs : 2/1/2019 3:52 pm : link
then does DG pull the trigger on a deal that moves up at the end of Rd 1 to take that QB?

I don't think,  
Doomster : 2/1/2019 3:54 pm : link
any of those QB's are worth #6 PICK.....

But I also don't think we will be picking in the top 10 next year, either.....so making a move for a a qb the following year will be much harder....

We have no idea, what Gettleman's Plan is....Mar 13 will give us a hint.....Mar 16th will give us another one.....

Will he go defense, or will he try to finally fix the OL?
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