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NFT: MLB - Why are so many players unsigned?

Sean : 2/2/2019 9:02 am
This is the second offseason in a row where so many players are unsigned & we are less than 3 weeks from Spring Training. This includes Harper & Machado. I think this is awful for the sport. From a pure business standpoint, teams could capitalize on merchandise sales if all of this was wrapped up prior to the holiday season (which it used to be).

Iím hopeful this gets resolved by the next CBA, but it absolutely needs to be addressed. MLB should be taking advantage of media exposure with regards to where Harper/Machado sign, but there is absolutely no buzz.

On the contrary, look at the massive buzz created by AD & Porzingis in the NBA this past week. The countdown is already on for the 2019 FA class.

I guess the Padres are in on Harper now? Just a bad look for MLB.
How are you going  
TommyWiseau : 2/2/2019 9:14 am : link
To fix this in the next CBA? Players are not signed because their contract demands are high. What rule coould you possibly put in the CBA that could prevent teams from overpaying players? They already have guaranteed contracts
Don't know, but I really dislike the wall-to-wall sweepstakes coverage  
ThreePoints : 2/2/2019 9:15 am : link
Not saying this is normal, but calling the process of signing every high-profile free agent a "sweepstakes" probably puts a ton of pressure on teams. I wonder, if we went back to a time without 24/7 coverage and twitter, if deals would get done faster. I'm sure it feeds to a player's ego.
Wait, you want to ďfixĒ what exactly?!  
Ssanders9816 : 2/2/2019 9:16 am : link
The fact that players are being greedy or teams are being smart?
And the NBA also is getting a ton of negative exposure from this  
Ssanders9816 : 2/2/2019 9:18 am : link
Casual fans think itís a complete joke that stars can demand trades to get off shitty teams rather than honor their contract. Building superteams and controlling the league is a joke in general
Blame  
Shecky : 2/2/2019 9:18 am : link
The MLBPA
Thatís where the pressure to NOT sign comes from
Itís simple  
BigBlueShock : 2/2/2019 9:19 am : link
Players want 10 year contracts and teams have decided that itís not wise to hand out $30M per year for 10 years. Hell, even Kimbrel is looking for a 6 year deal. The Yankees for example have learned their lessons from the ARod and Ellsbury contract. Itís hard to fault MLB entirely. The players and their agents need to accept some of the blame. They think just because players have signed these ludicrous deals in the past that teams should continue to be stupid about it. Do you think if Machado and Harper were willing to take 5 or 6 year deals theyíd still be unsigned?
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't this start with the players?  
robbieballs2003 : 2/2/2019 9:19 am : link
What I mean is that players used to really take their time deciding on where they wanted to go. It has flipped onto the owners with rumors of collusion but this has been the norm for players to wait. Now, this year is definitely an extreme it seems like but the groundwork was laid well before the last 2 years.

It boggles my mind how MLB functions. Can you imagine the NFL functioning like this? I can't. I mean it would make more sense for NFL players to at least visit potential teams before just signing with a team but even with how crazy NFL FA is I still think that makes more sense than leaving 2 of the top players in MLB who are also young and entering their primes out there on the market.
The players were offered a fix %  
Metnut : 2/2/2019 9:27 am : link
of revenue previously and vehemently turned it down in favor of the current system. This is the system the MLBPA wanted.

The new CBA is probably going to go after service time games. Maybe start arbitration earlier, make it pay more to players, and maybe all players can become a UFA at 26 (or something like that) regardless of service time.
It all has to do with cap dynamics..  
moze1021 : 2/2/2019 9:28 am : link
Players want quicker signing periods??

Then give up some combination of:

Guaranteed contracts
Unlimited contract size
Unlimited contract length
Unlimited payroll

Owners want to get rid of some combination of above?? Then they might have to deal with:

High payroll floor
Shorter control period for young players


Teams are wising up  
Beer Man : 2/2/2019 9:37 am : link
Look at the Yankees for example. They gave out a number of big, long term contracts, and although they receive immediate gratification during the early years they were handcuffed in the later years. They paid players like ARod, Tex, and Jacoby huge multi-year contracts and received very average performance from these players in the last few years of their contracts. The team became old and stale overnight.

Plus, since 2003, the Yankees have paid $325M in luxury tax to MLB for being over the salary cap. That's a lot of cheddar.
RE: Teams are wising up  
Beer Man : 2/2/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14284252 Beer Man said:
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Look at the Yankees for example. They gave out a number of big, long term contracts, and although they receive immediate gratification during the early years they were handcuffed in the later years. They paid players like ARod, Tex, and Jacoby huge multi-year contracts and received very average performance from these players in the last few years of their contracts. The team became old and stale overnight.

Plus, since 2003, the Yankees have paid $325M in luxury tax to MLB for being over the salary cap. That's a lot of cheddar.
and that $325M only bought them one WS title
RE: RE: Teams are wising up  
TommyWiseau : 2/2/2019 9:55 am : link
In comment 14284269 Beer Man said:
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In comment 14284252 Beer Man said:


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Look at the Yankees for example. They gave out a number of big, long term contracts, and although they receive immediate gratification during the early years they were handcuffed in the later years. They paid players like ARod, Tex, and Jacoby huge multi-year contracts and received very average performance from these players in the last few years of their contracts. The team became old and stale overnight.

Plus, since 2003, the Yankees have paid $325M in luxury tax to MLB for being over the salary cap. That's a lot of cheddar.

and that $325M only bought them one WS title


Well worth it IMO
RE: RE: RE: Teams are wising up  
Beer Man : 2/2/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14284272 TommyWiseau said:
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In comment 14284269 Beer Man said:


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In comment 14284252 Beer Man said:


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Look at the Yankees for example. They gave out a number of big, long term contracts, and although they receive immediate gratification during the early years they were handcuffed in the later years. They paid players like ARod, Tex, and Jacoby huge multi-year contracts and received very average performance from these players in the last few years of their contracts. The team became old and stale overnight.

Plus, since 2003, the Yankees have paid $325M in luxury tax to MLB for being over the salary cap. That's a lot of cheddar.

and that $325M only bought them one WS title



Well worth it IMO
Sure as fans, its always well worth it when its somebody else's money. But if your a business owner, and its your money, you might look at that differently.
Know it will Never Happen, But the NHL Agreement Has Some Good Points  
varco : 2/2/2019 10:05 am : link
I know the economics are completely different and there is NO chance it would be adopted, but from my understanding of it, the NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement has a lot going for it, which MLB could use (but it will never happen). Some features, as I recall ---teams must have a Minimum Salary Base as well as a Maximum, No one player's contract may constitute more than a certain percentage of the team's cap space and teams are allowed to buy out certain bad contracts without affecting the cap. Revenue sharing is based on the Team's actual revenues and how they stack up against the other teams (bottom ranked receive subsidies). From the look of it, if MLB would adopt some features, the "problems" cited would be lessened. I think particularly, the maximum percentage provision and especially the buy out ability would help in terms of clearing the cap of unwanted contracts.
I think a strike is all but inevitable  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/2/2019 10:08 am : link
after this CBA expires.
RE: I think a strike is all but inevitable  
since1925 : 2/2/2019 10:52 am : link
In comment 14284285 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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after this CBA expires.


I don't see why. Only a few players are being negatively affected and they will still make enough to choke a horse.

I listen to ARod complain that there should be be a 50-million dollar player by now and think he's nuts. How does that help the majority of players? And BTW, how much did ARod's megadeal help Texas?

The problem with major league baseball is the many young stars who are making $500,000 a year with years to go before they can even get to arbitration. They are way under paid. That's the problem that has to be fixed and it affects a lot of players, players on every team.
RE: RE: RE: Teams are wising up  
Ssanders9816 : 2/2/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14284272 TommyWiseau said:
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In comment 14284269 Beer Man said:


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In comment 14284252 Beer Man said:


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Look at the Yankees for example. They gave out a number of big, long term contracts, and although they receive immediate gratification during the early years they were handcuffed in the later years. They paid players like ARod, Tex, and Jacoby huge multi-year contracts and received very average performance from these players in the last few years of their contracts. The team became old and stale overnight.

Plus, since 2003, the Yankees have paid $325M in luxury tax to MLB for being over the salary cap. That's a lot of cheddar.

and that $325M only bought them one WS title



Well worth it IMO


As compared to a team like the Giants that won 3 championships since 2010 without paying it?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Teams are wising up  
moze1021 : 2/2/2019 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14284318 Ssanders9816 said:
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In comment 14284272 TommyWiseau said:


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In comment 14284269 Beer Man said:


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In comment 14284252 Beer Man said:


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Look at the Yankees for example. They gave out a number of big, long term contracts, and although they receive immediate gratification during the early years they were handcuffed in the later years. They paid players like ARod, Tex, and Jacoby huge multi-year contracts and received very average performance from these players in the last few years of their contracts. The team became old and stale overnight.

Plus, since 2003, the Yankees have paid $325M in luxury tax to MLB for being over the salary cap. That's a lot of cheddar.

and that $325M only bought them one WS title



Well worth it IMO



As compared to a team like the Giants that won 3 championships since 2010 without paying it?


Giants have been over luxury tax threshold 3 times since last CBA..they are hardly paupers (like my Mets are)

Yankees not hurting for profits..Agree here that all the money they spent and continue to spend is worth it.
A salary ceiling salary floor and limitation to arbitration awards  
xman : 2/2/2019 1:11 pm : link
and we are good to go. Though a strike is always out there, the great majority of players are very well paid relative to production.

No one is striking because a Harper is not going to get 10 year 400 million contracts.


In the end a balanced league is in the interest fans. That should be the goal.

Want to socialize MLB? Give every player from day one 5/6 million dollars and at years end the top 10% triple that. I bet the majority of union players would go for that.
Giants paying the tax  
Shecky : 2/2/2019 1:25 pm : link
Is like saying the Tigers paid the tax. Both teams were inches past the threshold. Giants paid like 8mm in tax. Cumulative. Not exactly the Yankees, Dodgers or Red Sox lol
Why not offer a shorter contract  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/2/2019 1:32 pm : link
With more money. That way you are paying for the prime years and not getting the bad down years with it.
Look at the overall payrolls from 10-14 years ago  
bhill410 : 2/2/2019 1:35 pm : link
And then look collectively where we are now. I am not really sure why the players are complaining. Year teams put more emphasis on arb players, but Rb players are also getting more in year 5and 6 than ever before. MLB is shying a way from vets more than it used to, but then again vets without chemical enhancements arenít exactly producing the same.

Also it doesnít help that 1/3 of the clients remaining are Boras clients and Boras has recently lost his life lines in Illich and Steinbrenner. You think Harper couldnít get 7/220 today if he wanted? He wants 300. That is not something you strike over IMO.

Lastly, there is more of a premium on relievers than ever before so they are taking away from the salary of position players.
GMís have learned that if they wait prices come down.  
Giant John : 2/2/2019 2:56 pm : link
Itís the people with the $ that have the power. Whatís new?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Teams are wising up  
TheMick7 : 2/2/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14284277 Beer Man said:
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Look at the Yankees for example. They gave out a number of big, long term contracts, and although they receive immediate gratification during the early years they were handcuffed in the later years. They paid players like ARod, Tex, and Jacoby huge multi-year contracts and received very average performance from these players in the last few years of their contracts. The team became old and stale overnight.

Plus, since 2003, the Yankees have paid $325M in luxury tax to MLB for being over the salary cap. That's a lot of cheddar.

and that $325M only bought them one WS title



Well worth it IMO

Sure as fans, its always well worth it when its somebody else's money. But if your a business owner, and its your money, you might look at that differently.


It always makes me laugh when fans side w/the owners.Do a little research & see what their profit margins have been for the last 5 years.It might make you reconsider your opinion!
RE: Wait, you want to ďfixĒ what exactly?!  
mitch300 : 2/2/2019 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14284231 Ssanders9816 said:
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The fact that players are being greedy or teams are being smart?

Exactly.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Teams are wising up  
mitch300 : 2/2/2019 4:41 pm : link
In comment 14284549 TheMick7 said:
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In comment 14284272 TommyWiseau said:


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Look at the Yankees for example. They gave out a number of big, long term contracts, and although they receive immediate gratification during the early years they were handcuffed in the later years. They paid players like ARod, Tex, and Jacoby huge multi-year contracts and received very average performance from these players in the last few years of their contracts. The team became old and stale overnight.

Plus, since 2003, the Yankees have paid $325M in luxury tax to MLB for being over the salary cap. That's a lot of cheddar.

and that $325M only bought them one WS title



Well worth it IMO

Sure as fans, its always well worth it when its somebody else's money. But if your a business owner, and its your money, you might look at that differently.



It always makes me laugh when fans side w/the owners.Do a little research & see what their profit margins have been for the last 5 years.It might make you reconsider your opinion!

True. However, as owners arenít they allowed to make money. Why must the owners put abill of their profits back to the players. They are all making crazy money. 500 thousand minumto play baseball. Where do I sign up.
RE: RE: Wait, you want to ďfixĒ what exactly?!  
RDJR : 2/2/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14284600 mitch300 said:
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In comment 14284231 Ssanders9816 said:


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The fact that players are being greedy or teams are being smart?

Iíll never understand sports fans that support fat cat owners who have fortunes that are unimaginable to most, over athletes, most of whom have grown up modestly, in these types of debates.


Exactly.
I don't think the $$  
section125 : 2/2/2019 5:54 pm : link
is the problem, it is the years. While I feel the players should get paid, I also feel the owners should not have to eat the final 2 or 3 years of a contract with broken down players.
As someone suggested, if Harper and Machado took 5, 6, or 7 year deals, they would be signed already. Offer a higher AAV for shorter years. Or sign a shorter deal 3, 4, or 5 years that gets them a second bite at the apple.
I don't see why they'd strike  
pjcas18 : 2/2/2019 6:13 pm : link
average MLB salaries are up and are even or above other sports.

I doubt the entire league strikes because superstars don't get mega deals, it's the masses they usually care about and if league min increases and league average increases why would you strike?

they might strike for other reasons, the way they treat rookies/younger players until they reach free agency seems in need of overhaul, the way they treat the international pool vs draft still needs tweaking IMO, but not the fact Machado and Harper haven't signed 10 year 350M contracts.
Mega contracts  
dank41 : 2/2/2019 8:35 pm : link
rarely work out. Most of them end in playing players past their prime for 3-4 years at extremely high $$$.

Your already starting to see it and will continue to with players like Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera. Cabrera is with Detroit until 2023 and he is 35 now lol.

If these super long deals are done, they are probably going to have to be constructed different, like front loading money or giving team more options at end of contract.

RE: Giants paying the tax  
moze1021 : 2/2/2019 11:54 pm : link
In comment 14284440 Shecky said:
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Is like saying the Tigers paid the tax. Both teams were inches past the threshold. Giants paid like 8mm in tax. Cumulative. Not exactly the Yankees, Dodgers or Red Sox lol


Closer to the Yankees, Dodgers, or Red Sox than the Mets...$8M more than they have paid in luxury tax..
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Teams are wising up  
Beer Man : 2/3/2019 8:17 am : link
In comment 14284549 TheMick7 said:
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Look at the Yankees for example. They gave out a number of big, long term contracts, and although they receive immediate gratification during the early years they were handcuffed in the later years. They paid players like ARod, Tex, and Jacoby huge multi-year contracts and received very average performance from these players in the last few years of their contracts. The team became old and stale overnight.

Plus, since 2003, the Yankees have paid $325M in luxury tax to MLB for being over the salary cap. That's a lot of cheddar.

and that $325M only bought them one WS title



Well worth it IMO

Sure as fans, its always well worth it when its somebody else's money. But if your a business owner, and its your money, you might look at that differently.



It always makes me laugh when fans side w/the owners.Do a little research & see what their profit margins have been for the last 5 years.It might make you reconsider your opinion!
There is nothing to research, they are rich and we all know that. But please feel free to share with all of us your hard hitting research that says owners should have to spend excessively to buy a championship because (in your words) they make too much money.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Teams are wising up  
moze1021 : 2/4/2019 10:05 am : link
In comment 14284961 Beer Man said:
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Look at the Yankees for example. They gave out a number of big, long term contracts, and although they receive immediate gratification during the early years they were handcuffed in the later years. They paid players like ARod, Tex, and Jacoby huge multi-year contracts and received very average performance from these players in the last few years of their contracts. The team became old and stale overnight.

Plus, since 2003, the Yankees have paid $325M in luxury tax to MLB for being over the salary cap. That's a lot of cheddar.

and that $325M only bought them one WS title



Well worth it IMO

Sure as fans, its always well worth it when its somebody else's money. But if your a business owner, and its your money, you might look at that differently.



It always makes me laugh when fans side w/the owners.Do a little research & see what their profit margins have been for the last 5 years.It might make you reconsider your opinion!

There is nothing to research, they are rich and we all know that. But please feel free to share with all of us your hard hitting research that says owners should have to spend excessively to buy a championship because (in your words) they make too much money.


Well..if the owners don't want to spend then it's certainly their right...

But then don't act like you are actually doing everything in your power to win.

The Mets, for example, have been pushing this narrative that they have been trying to win and put the best product on the field possible. That hasn't been true since 2008... and still isn't this year.

It's the disingenuous messaging that really sucks, not the act itself.

If it's true that Machado and Harper's best offers...  
Dunedin81 : 2/4/2019 10:40 am : link
came a month ago, they're really what's holding up the market. There are a ton of Plan Bs still on the market. I appreciate the concerns of the players, but they're the ones who have to sign.
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