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Haskins vs. 2018 QB Class

CMicks3110 : 2/2/2019 12:00 pm
I think this has been asked before; but do some of the gurus out there have any insights. His stats are pretty off the charts. Significantly better than everyone but Mayfield, and he played in a much better conference.
Funny,  
TC : 2/2/2019 12:47 pm : link
I was just going to start a thread on QB prospects, but now it can be your fault instead! ;-)

I don't watch much college football, or pay very close attention to it, so it's not surprising I wasn't familiar with QB prospects. Had only heard it wasn't a very strong class compared to last year. But after reading some threads about Haskins and Murray, I grew more interested and started checking out videos.

Specifically looked at Haskins, Murray and Jones, in that order. In terms of what he accomplishes on the field, Haskins is possibly the most impressive. And he is imposing physically with a substantial stature and athleticism. His stats are off the charts. It is likely he'll be a very good pro, and possibly, a great one.

Murray is an extraordinary athlete who is very small for his position, paticularly in the pro's. His style of play reminds me a lot of Lamar Jackson, but he may be both a better passer and runner. Very smart in how he uses receivers, usually hits them in stride with very catchable passes. While he runs very effectively, if he knows he's going to get hit, he slides. He has an obvious understanding he doesn't want to try to run through 220 lb. defenders.

But when I watched Jones, I was most surprised. Despite mediocre stats, I see a guy who looks very much like an NFL QB. Big, poised, good footwork, good arm and he can even run. Not that Eli is necessarily on his way to Canton, but watching Jones I couldn't avoid the feeling I was watching a more athletic version of Eli.


Dwayne Haskins Highlights  
TC : 2/2/2019 12:56 pm : link
.
Video - ( New Window )
Kyler Murray Highlights  
TC : 2/2/2019 12:56 pm : link
.
Video - ( New Window )
Daniel Jones Highlights  
TC : 2/2/2019 12:57 pm : link
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Video - ( New Window )
Where is your analysis of Haskins vs the 2018 QBs?  
Ivan15 : 2/2/2019 1:33 pm : link
I thought I was going to read that he would rank behind at least 3 of the 2018 class.

I think Haskins would have gone 10-15.
The 2018 class is sort of instructive here  
Oscar : 2/2/2019 2:02 pm : link
This time last year I think you would have seen Baker Mayfield ranked fourth or fifth among the 2018 QBís. A few months later he went first overall, a year later heís widely considered the best of the bunch and maybe the only sure hit.

Just pointing out that if someone says Haskins would be 4/5 among QBís from 2018 it isnít necessarily so, and even if he is ranked behind those guys pre-draft it doesnít mean anything for his eventual NFL performance.

Highlights are Highlights....  
Rafflee : 2/2/2019 2:07 pm : link
Haskins is impressive...he's moving in the pocket, looking off receivers.... Jones and Haskins will be interesting to see their Physical Stuff at Pro-Days and Combine.

The Murray Highlights look like a Bag Drill...the obvious positives and negatives without much that looks like an NFL Situation. He has obvious talent and obvious limitations....and too many other good (Better?) choices for my own taste...his baseball options
My guess  
lax counsel : 2/2/2019 2:16 pm : link
Is heís the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say heís comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.
RE: My guess  
Pan-handler : 2/2/2019 2:25 pm : link
In comment 14284486 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Is heís the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say heís comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.


4th or 5th taken in this years thin class? Would be amazed. Absolute lowest I could see is 3rd if someone is daring enough to spend a top 10 pick on a sub 5'11 sub 200lb QB and likes the upside of Lock.

His tape albeit one year is too good and it goes beyond the numbers. You see poise, vision going through progressions and anticipation at a very high level for a 1st year full starting. Add he has a very strong build despite slightly less than ideal height , I would be very suprised to see him out of the top 8 let alone be the 4th or 5th QB off the board.

Jones is too unpolished and Lock has more flaws in his game (albeit probably the highest upside as a passer).
Haskins is a second rounder in that draft  
Go Terps : 2/2/2019 2:26 pm : link
.
With that said, I'd still take Rosen  
Pan-handler : 2/2/2019 2:28 pm : link
If that rumor about the Cards taking Murray had any merit whatsoever.

Rosen was one of my faves last year and he was in one of the worst situations in the entire NFL last year.

I think Rosen if he ends up on the right team with a half decent OC will be very, very good.
RE: My guess  
The_Boss : 2/2/2019 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14284486 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Is heís the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say heís comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.


This is exactly how I feel and how some GMís feel, if you take credence in an article Mehta did last week while at the Senior Bowl.
The real key to determining who is the better QB  
Jimmy Googs : 2/2/2019 2:30 pm : link
is to focus in on the highlights of each player...
RE: With that said, I'd still take Rosen  
The_Boss : 2/2/2019 2:31 pm : link
In comment 14284499 Pan-handler said:
Quote:
If that rumor about the Cards taking Murray had any merit whatsoever.

Rosen was one of my faves last year and he was in one of the worst situations in the entire NFL last year.

I think Rosen if he ends up on the right team with a half decent OC will be very, very good.


And this is my feeling as well. To me, Rosen is better than anyone in this draft AND better than anyone projected in the 2020 draft.
The only QB I'd put above Haskins from last year's draft is Mayfield.  
yatqb : 2/2/2019 2:37 pm : link
His judgment and accuracy are far better than Darnold's, and his accuracy and arm strength are at least on the level of Rosen's (and without the personality issues that concerned some teams), and it goes without saying that his completion percentage and reading of defenses was far superior to Allen's.
RE: Haskins is a second rounder in that draft  
Pan-handler : 2/2/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14284498 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


My apologies, I read it as THIS year not last year.

Yeah last year he probably goes after Mayfield, Darnold at minumum. I could see as the 3rd guy (just because Rosen had the flag on character and went lower than I thought he would ) and Allen was quite raw as a passer. But I could see him after or in between those 2 as well.
RE: The only QB I'd put above Haskins from last year's draft is Mayfield.  
Pan-handler : 2/2/2019 2:43 pm : link
In comment 14284511 yatqb said:
Quote:
His judgment and accuracy are far better than Darnold's, and his accuracy and arm strength are at least on the level of Rosen's (and without the personality issues that concerned some teams), and it goes without saying that his completion percentage and reading of defenses was far superior to Allen's.


I agree he is a VERY good looking QB in his own right. What you saw out of him as a first year starter is pretty rare, regardless of how good his team was. He didnt run a gimmick offense either.
Haskins would be ranked 6th for me  
SHO'NUFF : 2/2/2019 3:06 pm : link
just behind LJax
Nobody knows  
UberAlias : 2/2/2019 3:14 pm : link
Whatever position people have been anchored to in the QB debates, that's what they're sticking with. Most of BBI either think this is fantasy football where you load up on everything else and draft your QB late as an afterthought, will spin any narrative that keeps Eli behind center until he's in a wheelchair, or would draft the McAdoo kid if he were wearing a QB jersey.

There are 2-4 guys in this draft that have comparable resumes, program pedigree, stats, and physical tools as the guys from last year. 95% of this board would have no clue what separates one guy's chances of success from another. They're either going to regurgitate what they've been told or give some other line because it fits the narrative they've been selling.

I'm hoping there's a franchise QB in this draft and that the Giants get him because two years picking this early and failing to address a need that has such a massive impact on the long term success of the franchise would be a major disappointment. But you can't force it so we'll have to see. Odds are the teams themselves couldn't tell you how Haskins compares to the guys from last year at this point, or of they could, it could change as they get further in the process. At this time a year ago Cleveland had Darnold over Mayfield.
I agree that if someone who can actually evaluate QB's . . . .  
TC : 2/2/2019 3:42 pm : link
sees a viable potential NFL starting QB among this year's crop, you grab him when you can. Despite the talking heads who will have them spread all over the rankings, QB is still a premium position, and there are some who have both Haskins and Jones going in the first round.

And if the Giants think either of these guys could be the future, I couldn't complain too much if they took one. Ideally one would slip to the Giants' 2nd round pick, but I don't think so. I like both, but there's something about Jones that yells PRO to me.

If they don't believe one could be the guy, I see the Giant's first pick as defense, very possibly DE/OLB.
Iím reserving judgement  
Rover : 2/2/2019 4:07 pm : link
Until I hear from Sy
RE: Haskins is a second rounder in that draft  
GoBlue6599 : 2/2/2019 7:03 pm : link
In comment 14284498 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.

You know this how? Or are you just spewing garbage about a player you donít like?
Haskins has one year starting experience.  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 2/2/2019 7:13 pm : link
How many do the candidates we're comparing him to have?
RE: Haskins has one year starting experience.  
TC : 2/2/2019 8:04 pm : link
In comment 14284762 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:
Quote:
How many do the candidates we're comparing him to have?

There often are reasons other than simply talent that a player in college plays or sits. It's been suggested that Haskins' natural style is that of a pocket passer, and he had to adopt a more mobile one to do what the coaches wanted. Kind of like the opposite of Russel Wilson who's a mobile QB, but now plays more in the pocket.

RE: RE: My guess  
lax counsel : 2/2/2019 10:38 pm : link
In comment 14284497 Pan-handler said:
Quote:
In comment 14284486 lax counsel said:


Quote:


Is heís the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say heís comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.



4th or 5th taken in this years thin class? Would be amazed. Absolute lowest I could see is 3rd if someone is daring enough to spend a top 10 pick on a sub 5'11 sub 200lb QB and likes the upside of Lock.

His tape albeit one year is too good and it goes beyond the numbers. You see poise, vision going through progressions and anticipation at a very high level for a 1st year full starting. Add he has a very strong build despite slightly less than ideal height , I would be very suprised to see him out of the top 8 let alone be the 4th or 5th QB off the board.

Jones is too unpolished and Lock has more flaws in his game (albeit probably the highest upside as a passer).


Ummm, what?? Where in my post did I mention 4th or 5th an off the board this year?
There's very little liklihood  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/2/2019 11:00 pm : link
Haskins would have been ranked after Lamar Fooking Jackson or Josh Allen last year. You fools either don't watch college football or misjudge him if you think that. He would have been on the same tier that Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen were at, each with their own pluses and minuses given system and personality fit within a given staff and city.

Most folks saw Mayfield as #3 or 4 at this point last year, and the top guys, Darnold and Rosen, had big ? around them.
RE: Haskins is a second rounder in that draft  
UConn4523 : 2/2/2019 11:08 pm : link
In comment 14284498 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


He would have gone higher than Jackson, easily. He would have likely been in the mix in AZ or a bit later via a trade up for someone else.
"News at 11  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/2/2019 11:08 pm : link
random guys on football board rank Quarterbacks based on YouTube videos and personal bias. Nobody cares."
This time last year  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/2/2019 11:11 pm : link
how many of you ranked Baker as the best QB in that class? Not many.
BBI SPECIAL AT 11:30!  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/2/2019 11:15 pm : link
Douche bag pops into a football message board, insults everyone on an FB thread, posts no opinion whatsoever on topic of said thread.

Love the diversity here. There's fools that don't know much about football but opine away...

And fools that don't know much about anything that criticize the football fools.
RE: This time last year  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/2/2019 11:16 pm : link
In comment 14284887 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
how many of you ranked Baker as the best QB in that class? Not many.


Shit sorry LGG I jumped in on you too fast. This is a good point, a very good point.
You guys donít know that Haskins goes second round last year  
djm : 2/3/2019 12:15 am : link
.. just because some scouts say so doesnít make it so. In my opinion I find it odd that Haskins would be ranked that much lower than a guy like rosen or darnold. Mayfield even came with some flaws. Every qb last year came with some flaws just like Haskins. I honestly think some are just pushing the narrative that the giants should have taken the qb last year.
RE: This time last year  
djm : 2/3/2019 12:19 am : link
In comment 14284887 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
how many of you ranked Baker as the best QB in that class? Not many.


Also, this.

And how anyone can say Murrayís talents wonít translate to the pro game.... how exactly does a qb who can move like mick Vick not work in the pro game? Murray is a special talent. The combine will likely reinforce that.
He's still top 10-15  
AcesUp : 2/3/2019 12:21 am : link
His knocks are sample size and his feet. Oh and his athleticism is average for the position...but still not bad. Everything else is there. So same convo as last year's guys but on the tail end of the consensus grades. He'd be in the Rosen/Allen convo IMO.
The draft is like an auction.....  
Doomster : 2/3/2019 8:30 am : link
there is always someone in the crowd willing to overpay to get what they want...
Regarding Haskins stats, Murray had much stats than Haskin's  
Ira : 2/3/2019 8:52 am : link
and Grier's were just as good as Haskins, despite not having the Ohio State super supporting cast.
RE: RE: RE: My guess  
Pan-handler : 2/3/2019 8:56 am : link
In comment 14284871 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 14284497 Pan-handler said:


Quote:


In comment 14284486 lax counsel said:


Quote:


Is heís the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say heís comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.



4th or 5th taken in this years thin class? Would be amazed. Absolute lowest I could see is 3rd if someone is daring enough to spend a top 10 pick on a sub 5'11 sub 200lb QB and likes the upside of Lock.

His tape albeit one year is too good and it goes beyond the numbers. You see poise, vision going through progressions and anticipation at a very high level for a 1st year full starting. Add he has a very strong build despite slightly less than ideal height , I would be very suprised to see him out of the top 8 let alone be the 4th or 5th QB off the board.

Jones is too unpolished and Lock has more flaws in his game (albeit probably the highest upside as a passer).



Ummm, what?? Where in my post did I mention 4th or 5th an off the board this year?


I replied further down and apologized... I missed where you said LAST year. 4th or 5th this year is certainly more plausible.
RE: There's very little liklihood  
Pan-handler : 2/3/2019 8:59 am : link
In comment 14284880 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
Haskins would have been ranked after Lamar Fooking Jackson or Josh Allen last year. You fools either don't watch college football or misjudge him if you think that. He would have been on the same tier that Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen were at, each with their own pluses and minuses given system and personality fit within a given staff and city.

Most folks saw Mayfield as #3 or 4 at this point last year, and the top guys, Darnold and Rosen, had big ? around them.


I think the combine will solidify this but yeah I think he would be fairly close to those guys. I would probably put him a tick below the top 3 Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen but above Allen. But hes not far off either from where they were ranked at this time wither IMO.
RE: RE: This time last year  
Pan-handler : 2/3/2019 9:03 am : link
In comment 14284905 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14284887 LakeGeorgeGiant said:


Quote:


how many of you ranked Baker as the best QB in that class? Not many.



Also, this.

And how anyone can say Murrayís talents wonít translate to the pro game.... how exactly does a qb who can move like mick Vick not work in the pro game? Murray is a special talent. The combine will likely reinforce that.


If Murray had Mike Vicks size many more would agree with you. Hes awfully small height wise and he doesnt have the build to partially make up for it like Russel Wilson either.
What's the point of comparing last years to this class?  
GFAN52 : 2/3/2019 9:20 am : link
You have to deal with what's available this year.
If Foles goes to Jax that will be a big help  
Pan-handler : 2/3/2019 11:37 am : link
If you are in the want a QB in the 1st round for the Giants. Jax pick 7 so they only need to move a couple spots to jump us. The other teams would have to pay a much bigger price starting with Denver. I could see Oak go QB though which would be interesting. The way Oak drafts Tyler Murray would be their type (maybe that changes under the new GM).

Giants were apparently all over Lock and maybe they have reservations on Jones (like I do). To me its a 2 person QB class in Haskins and Lock and both would need a year of grooming (which works as we likely keep Eli another year).
RE: What's the point of comparing last years to this class?  
djm : 2/3/2019 4:33 pm : link
In comment 14285000 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
You have to deal with what's available this year.


Whatís the point? People live for this shit around here. Iíll say it again, donít even think of trying to convince me that a large portion of the draft experts around here arenít pushing an agenda when they rank Haskins as a second rounder. I know bullshit when i see it.

Haskins has size. Arm strength. Heís a great kid. He played in a tough conference. Played well in big games. He has the whole package. Yes, he only played for one year and yes he had a great team around him. Those are the only red flags. But heís a second rounder. Iíll bet anyone that Haskins goes first round in April.

Yeah, Sam Darnold was fucking flawless. If you can get past the mediocre season he had in 2017 and the boat load of turnovers or the mediocre schedule. Sure he was.
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