I think this has been asked before; but do some of the gurus out there have any insights. His stats are pretty off the charts. Significantly better than everyone but Mayfield, and he played in a much better conference.
I was just going to start a thread on QB prospects, but now it can be your fault instead! ;-)
I don't watch much college football, or pay very close attention to it, so it's not surprising I wasn't familiar with QB prospects. Had only heard it wasn't a very strong class compared to last year. But after reading some threads about Haskins and Murray, I grew more interested and started checking out videos.
Specifically looked at Haskins, Murray and Jones, in that order. In terms of what he accomplishes on the field, Haskins is possibly the most impressive. And he is imposing physically with a substantial stature and athleticism. His stats are off the charts. It is likely he'll be a very good pro, and possibly, a great one.
Murray is an extraordinary athlete who is very small for his position, paticularly in the pro's. His style of play reminds me a lot of Lamar Jackson, but he may be both a better passer and runner. Very smart in how he uses receivers, usually hits them in stride with very catchable passes. While he runs very effectively, if he knows he's going to get hit, he slides. He has an obvious understanding he doesn't want to try to run through 220 lb. defenders.
But when I watched Jones, I was most surprised. Despite mediocre stats, I see a guy who looks very much like an NFL QB. Big, poised, good footwork, good arm and he can even run. Not that Eli is necessarily on his way to Canton, but watching Jones I couldn't avoid the feeling I was watching a more athletic version of Eli.
This time last year I think you would have seen Baker Mayfield ranked fourth or fifth among the 2018 QB’s. A few months later he went first overall, a year later he’s widely considered the best of the bunch and maybe the only sure hit.
Just pointing out that if someone says Haskins would be 4/5 among QB’s from 2018 it isn’t necessarily so, and even if he is ranked behind those guys pre-draft it doesn’t mean anything for his eventual NFL performance.
Haskins is impressive...he's moving in the pocket, looking off receivers.... Jones and Haskins will be interesting to see their Physical Stuff at Pro-Days and Combine.
The Murray Highlights look like a Bag Drill...the obvious positives and negatives without much that looks like an NFL Situation. He has obvious talent and obvious limitations....and too many other good (Better?) choices for my own taste...his baseball options
Is he’s the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say he’s comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.
Is he’s the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say he’s comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.
4th or 5th taken in this years thin class? Would be amazed. Absolute lowest I could see is 3rd if someone is daring enough to spend a top 10 pick on a sub 5'11 sub 200lb QB and likes the upside of Lock.
His tape albeit one year is too good and it goes beyond the numbers. You see poise, vision going through progressions and anticipation at a very high level for a 1st year full starting. Add he has a very strong build despite slightly less than ideal height , I would be very suprised to see him out of the top 8 let alone be the 4th or 5th QB off the board.
Jones is too unpolished and Lock has more flaws in his game (albeit probably the highest upside as a passer).
Is he’s the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say he’s comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.
This is exactly how I feel and how some GM’s feel, if you take credence in an article Mehta did last week while at the Senior Bowl.
The real key to determining who is the better QB Â
His judgment and accuracy are far better than Darnold's, and his accuracy and arm strength are at least on the level of Rosen's (and without the personality issues that concerned some teams), and it goes without saying that his completion percentage and reading of defenses was far superior to Allen's.
My apologies, I read it as THIS year not last year.
Yeah last year he probably goes after Mayfield, Darnold at minumum. I could see as the 3rd guy (just because Rosen had the flag on character and went lower than I thought he would ) and Allen was quite raw as a passer. But I could see him after or in between those 2 as well.
RE: The only QB I'd put above Haskins from last year's draft is Mayfield. Â
His judgment and accuracy are far better than Darnold's, and his accuracy and arm strength are at least on the level of Rosen's (and without the personality issues that concerned some teams), and it goes without saying that his completion percentage and reading of defenses was far superior to Allen's.
I agree he is a VERY good looking QB in his own right. What you saw out of him as a first year starter is pretty rare, regardless of how good his team was. He didnt run a gimmick offense either.
Whatever position people have been anchored to in the QB debates, that's what they're sticking with. Most of BBI either think this is fantasy football where you load up on everything else and draft your QB late as an afterthought, will spin any narrative that keeps Eli behind center until he's in a wheelchair, or would draft the McAdoo kid if he were wearing a QB jersey.
There are 2-4 guys in this draft that have comparable resumes, program pedigree, stats, and physical tools as the guys from last year. 95% of this board would have no clue what separates one guy's chances of success from another. They're either going to regurgitate what they've been told or give some other line because it fits the narrative they've been selling.
I'm hoping there's a franchise QB in this draft and that the Giants get him because two years picking this early and failing to address a need that has such a massive impact on the long term success of the franchise would be a major disappointment. But you can't force it so we'll have to see. Odds are the teams themselves couldn't tell you how Haskins compares to the guys from last year at this point, or of they could, it could change as they get further in the process. At this time a year ago Cleveland had Darnold over Mayfield.
I agree that if someone who can actually evaluate QB's . . . . Â
sees a viable potential NFL starting QB among this year's crop, you grab him when you can. Despite the talking heads who will have them spread all over the rankings, QB is still a premium position, and there are some who have both Haskins and Jones going in the first round.
And if the Giants think either of these guys could be the future, I couldn't complain too much if they took one. Ideally one would slip to the Giants' 2nd round pick, but I don't think so. I like both, but there's something about Jones that yells PRO to me.
If they don't believe one could be the guy, I see the Giant's first pick as defense, very possibly DE/OLB.
How many do the candidates we're comparing him to have?
There often are reasons other than simply talent that a player in college plays or sits. It's been suggested that Haskins' natural style is that of a pocket passer, and he had to adopt a more mobile one to do what the coaches wanted. Kind of like the opposite of Russel Wilson who's a mobile QB, but now plays more in the pocket.
Is he’s the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say he’s comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.
4th or 5th taken in this years thin class? Would be amazed. Absolute lowest I could see is 3rd if someone is daring enough to spend a top 10 pick on a sub 5'11 sub 200lb QB and likes the upside of Lock.
His tape albeit one year is too good and it goes beyond the numbers. You see poise, vision going through progressions and anticipation at a very high level for a 1st year full starting. Add he has a very strong build despite slightly less than ideal height , I would be very suprised to see him out of the top 8 let alone be the 4th or 5th QB off the board.
Jones is too unpolished and Lock has more flaws in his game (albeit probably the highest upside as a passer).
Ummm, what?? Where in my post did I mention 4th or 5th an off the board this year?
Haskins would have been ranked after Lamar Fooking Jackson or Josh Allen last year. You fools either don't watch college football or misjudge him if you think that. He would have been on the same tier that Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen were at, each with their own pluses and minuses given system and personality fit within a given staff and city.
Most folks saw Mayfield as #3 or 4 at this point last year, and the top guys, Darnold and Rosen, had big ? around them.
.. just because some scouts say so doesn’t make it so. In my opinion I find it odd that Haskins would be ranked that much lower than a guy like rosen or darnold. Mayfield even came with some flaws. Every qb last year came with some flaws just like Haskins. I honestly think some are just pushing the narrative that the giants should have taken the qb last year.
how many of you ranked Baker as the best QB in that class? Not many.
Also, this.
And how anyone can say Murray’s talents won’t translate to the pro game.... how exactly does a qb who can move like mick Vick not work in the pro game? Murray is a special talent. The combine will likely reinforce that.
His knocks are sample size and his feet. Oh and his athleticism is average for the position...but still not bad. Everything else is there. So same convo as last year's guys but on the tail end of the consensus grades. He'd be in the Rosen/Allen convo IMO.
Is he’s the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say he’s comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.
4th or 5th taken in this years thin class? Would be amazed. Absolute lowest I could see is 3rd if someone is daring enough to spend a top 10 pick on a sub 5'11 sub 200lb QB and likes the upside of Lock.
His tape albeit one year is too good and it goes beyond the numbers. You see poise, vision going through progressions and anticipation at a very high level for a 1st year full starting. Add he has a very strong build despite slightly less than ideal height , I would be very suprised to see him out of the top 8 let alone be the 4th or 5th QB off the board.
Jones is too unpolished and Lock has more flaws in his game (albeit probably the highest upside as a passer).
Ummm, what?? Where in my post did I mention 4th or 5th an off the board this year?
I replied further down and apologized... I missed where you said LAST year. 4th or 5th this year is certainly more plausible.
Haskins would have been ranked after Lamar Fooking Jackson or Josh Allen last year. You fools either don't watch college football or misjudge him if you think that. He would have been on the same tier that Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen were at, each with their own pluses and minuses given system and personality fit within a given staff and city.
Most folks saw Mayfield as #3 or 4 at this point last year, and the top guys, Darnold and Rosen, had big ? around them.
I think the combine will solidify this but yeah I think he would be fairly close to those guys. I would probably put him a tick below the top 3 Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen but above Allen. But hes not far off either from where they were ranked at this time wither IMO.
how many of you ranked Baker as the best QB in that class? Not many.
Also, this.
And how anyone can say Murray’s talents won’t translate to the pro game.... how exactly does a qb who can move like mick Vick not work in the pro game? Murray is a special talent. The combine will likely reinforce that.
If Murray had Mike Vicks size many more would agree with you. Hes awfully small height wise and he doesnt have the build to partially make up for it like Russel Wilson either.
What's the point of comparing last years to this class? Â
If you are in the want a QB in the 1st round for the Giants. Jax pick 7 so they only need to move a couple spots to jump us. The other teams would have to pay a much bigger price starting with Denver. I could see Oak go QB though which would be interesting. The way Oak drafts Tyler Murray would be their type (maybe that changes under the new GM).
Giants were apparently all over Lock and maybe they have reservations on Jones (like I do). To me its a 2 person QB class in Haskins and Lock and both would need a year of grooming (which works as we likely keep Eli another year).
RE: What's the point of comparing last years to this class? Â
What’s the point? People live for this shit around here. I’ll say it again, don’t even think of trying to convince me that a large portion of the draft experts around here aren’t pushing an agenda when they rank Haskins as a second rounder. I know bullshit when i see it.
Haskins has size. Arm strength. He’s a great kid. He played in a tough conference. Played well in big games. He has the whole package. Yes, he only played for one year and yes he had a great team around him. Those are the only red flags. But he’s a second rounder. I’ll bet anyone that Haskins goes first round in April.
Yeah, Sam Darnold was fucking flawless. If you can get past the mediocre season he had in 2017 and the boat load of turnovers or the mediocre schedule. Sure he was.
I don't watch much college football, or pay very close attention to it, so it's not surprising I wasn't familiar with QB prospects. Had only heard it wasn't a very strong class compared to last year. But after reading some threads about Haskins and Murray, I grew more interested and started checking out videos.
Specifically looked at Haskins, Murray and Jones, in that order. In terms of what he accomplishes on the field, Haskins is possibly the most impressive. And he is imposing physically with a substantial stature and athleticism. His stats are off the charts. It is likely he'll be a very good pro, and possibly, a great one.
Murray is an extraordinary athlete who is very small for his position, paticularly in the pro's. His style of play reminds me a lot of Lamar Jackson, but he may be both a better passer and runner. Very smart in how he uses receivers, usually hits them in stride with very catchable passes. While he runs very effectively, if he knows he's going to get hit, he slides. He has an obvious understanding he doesn't want to try to run through 220 lb. defenders.
But when I watched Jones, I was most surprised. Despite mediocre stats, I see a guy who looks very much like an NFL QB. Big, poised, good footwork, good arm and he can even run. Not that Eli is necessarily on his way to Canton, but watching Jones I couldn't avoid the feeling I was watching a more athletic version of Eli.
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I think Haskins would have gone 10-15.
Just pointing out that if someone says Haskins would be 4/5 among QB’s from 2018 it isn’t necessarily so, and even if he is ranked behind those guys pre-draft it doesn’t mean anything for his eventual NFL performance.
The Murray Highlights look like a Bag Drill...the obvious positives and negatives without much that looks like an NFL Situation. He has obvious talent and obvious limitations....and too many other good (Better?) choices for my own taste...his baseball options
4th or 5th taken in this years thin class? Would be amazed. Absolute lowest I could see is 3rd if someone is daring enough to spend a top 10 pick on a sub 5'11 sub 200lb QB and likes the upside of Lock.
His tape albeit one year is too good and it goes beyond the numbers. You see poise, vision going through progressions and anticipation at a very high level for a 1st year full starting. Add he has a very strong build despite slightly less than ideal height , I would be very suprised to see him out of the top 8 let alone be the 4th or 5th QB off the board.
Jones is too unpolished and Lock has more flaws in his game (albeit probably the highest upside as a passer).
Rosen was one of my faves last year and he was in one of the worst situations in the entire NFL last year.
I think Rosen if he ends up on the right team with a half decent OC will be very, very good.
This is exactly how I feel and how some GM’s feel, if you take credence in an article Mehta did last week while at the Senior Bowl.
Rosen was one of my faves last year and he was in one of the worst situations in the entire NFL last year.
I think Rosen if he ends up on the right team with a half decent OC will be very, very good.
And this is my feeling as well. To me, Rosen is better than anyone in this draft AND better than anyone projected in the 2020 draft.
My apologies, I read it as THIS year not last year.
Yeah last year he probably goes after Mayfield, Darnold at minumum. I could see as the 3rd guy (just because Rosen had the flag on character and went lower than I thought he would ) and Allen was quite raw as a passer. But I could see him after or in between those 2 as well.
I agree he is a VERY good looking QB in his own right. What you saw out of him as a first year starter is pretty rare, regardless of how good his team was. He didnt run a gimmick offense either.
There are 2-4 guys in this draft that have comparable resumes, program pedigree, stats, and physical tools as the guys from last year. 95% of this board would have no clue what separates one guy's chances of success from another. They're either going to regurgitate what they've been told or give some other line because it fits the narrative they've been selling.
I'm hoping there's a franchise QB in this draft and that the Giants get him because two years picking this early and failing to address a need that has such a massive impact on the long term success of the franchise would be a major disappointment. But you can't force it so we'll have to see. Odds are the teams themselves couldn't tell you how Haskins compares to the guys from last year at this point, or of they could, it could change as they get further in the process. At this time a year ago Cleveland had Darnold over Mayfield.
And if the Giants think either of these guys could be the future, I couldn't complain too much if they took one. Ideally one would slip to the Giants' 2nd round pick, but I don't think so. I like both, but there's something about Jones that yells PRO to me.
If they don't believe one could be the guy, I see the Giant's first pick as defense, very possibly DE/OLB.
You know this how? Or are you just spewing garbage about a player you don’t like?
There often are reasons other than simply talent that a player in college plays or sits. It's been suggested that Haskins' natural style is that of a pocket passer, and he had to adopt a more mobile one to do what the coaches wanted. Kind of like the opposite of Russel Wilson who's a mobile QB, but now plays more in the pocket.
Quote:
Is he’s the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say he’s comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.
4th or 5th taken in this years thin class? Would be amazed. Absolute lowest I could see is 3rd if someone is daring enough to spend a top 10 pick on a sub 5'11 sub 200lb QB and likes the upside of Lock.
His tape albeit one year is too good and it goes beyond the numbers. You see poise, vision going through progressions and anticipation at a very high level for a 1st year full starting. Add he has a very strong build despite slightly less than ideal height , I would be very suprised to see him out of the top 8 let alone be the 4th or 5th QB off the board.
Jones is too unpolished and Lock has more flaws in his game (albeit probably the highest upside as a passer).
Ummm, what?? Where in my post did I mention 4th or 5th an off the board this year?
Most folks saw Mayfield as #3 or 4 at this point last year, and the top guys, Darnold and Rosen, had big ? around them.
He would have gone higher than Jackson, easily. He would have likely been in the mix in AZ or a bit later via a trade up for someone else.
Love the diversity here. There's fools that don't know much about football but opine away...
And fools that don't know much about anything that criticize the football fools.
Shit sorry LGG I jumped in on you too fast. This is a good point, a very good point.
Also, this.
And how anyone can say Murray’s talents won’t translate to the pro game.... how exactly does a qb who can move like mick Vick not work in the pro game? Murray is a special talent. The combine will likely reinforce that.
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In comment 14284486 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Is he’s the 4th or 5th qb off the board last year. Just do not think he is anywhere near as good as Darnold Rosen Mayfield, maybe you say he’s comparable to Josh Allen, but not as athletic. So I think 5th ahead of Jackson.
4th or 5th taken in this years thin class? Would be amazed. Absolute lowest I could see is 3rd if someone is daring enough to spend a top 10 pick on a sub 5'11 sub 200lb QB and likes the upside of Lock.
His tape albeit one year is too good and it goes beyond the numbers. You see poise, vision going through progressions and anticipation at a very high level for a 1st year full starting. Add he has a very strong build despite slightly less than ideal height , I would be very suprised to see him out of the top 8 let alone be the 4th or 5th QB off the board.
Jones is too unpolished and Lock has more flaws in his game (albeit probably the highest upside as a passer).
Ummm, what?? Where in my post did I mention 4th or 5th an off the board this year?
I replied further down and apologized... I missed where you said LAST year. 4th or 5th this year is certainly more plausible.
Most folks saw Mayfield as #3 or 4 at this point last year, and the top guys, Darnold and Rosen, had big ? around them.
I think the combine will solidify this but yeah I think he would be fairly close to those guys. I would probably put him a tick below the top 3 Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen but above Allen. But hes not far off either from where they were ranked at this time wither IMO.
Quote:
how many of you ranked Baker as the best QB in that class? Not many.
Also, this.
And how anyone can say Murray’s talents won’t translate to the pro game.... how exactly does a qb who can move like mick Vick not work in the pro game? Murray is a special talent. The combine will likely reinforce that.
If Murray had Mike Vicks size many more would agree with you. Hes awfully small height wise and he doesnt have the build to partially make up for it like Russel Wilson either.
Giants were apparently all over Lock and maybe they have reservations on Jones (like I do). To me its a 2 person QB class in Haskins and Lock and both would need a year of grooming (which works as we likely keep Eli another year).
What’s the point? People live for this shit around here. I’ll say it again, don’t even think of trying to convince me that a large portion of the draft experts around here aren’t pushing an agenda when they rank Haskins as a second rounder. I know bullshit when i see it.
Haskins has size. Arm strength. He’s a great kid. He played in a tough conference. Played well in big games. He has the whole package. Yes, he only played for one year and yes he had a great team around him. Those are the only red flags. But he’s a second rounder. I’ll bet anyone that Haskins goes first round in April.
Yeah, Sam Darnold was fucking flawless. If you can get past the mediocre season he had in 2017 and the boat load of turnovers or the mediocre schedule. Sure he was.