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NFT: Mets Chat

DanMetroMan : 2/4/2019 9:11 am
- Cecchini cleared waivers (yikes to his value around the league).

-NYFS top 50
Rookie maximums for at-bats (130), games pitched (30) or innings (50) in the major leagues"

If the 2 leaders are within 5% of each other, or the leader has less than 30% there will be a run-off between the top 2. If a run-off results in a tie the tiebreaker will be vote total in the previous poll, we will continue to "go back" in the polls until there is a clear leader.

*Jeff McNeil is ineligible
*Chris Flexen is ineligible
*Drew Smith is ineligible
*Tyler Bashlor is ineligible

1) Andres Gimenez (SS) AA 19/37 votes- 51%
2) Peter Alonso (1B) AAA 24/36 votes- 67%
3) Ronny Mauricio (SS) Kingsport 12/33-36%
4) Mark Vientos (3b) Kingsport 16/31-52%
5) David Peterson (LHP) A+ 21/31- 68%
6) Franklyn Kilome (RHP) AA 20/33-61%
7) Thomas Szapucki (LHP) A 18/32-56%
8 ) Shervyen Newton (SS) Kingsport 12/30-40%, Run-off with Anthony Kay 17/33-52%
9) Anthony Kay (LHP) AA 18/26-69%
10) Simeon Woods-Richardson (RHP) Kingsport 12/30-40%
11) Will Toffey (3B) 10/29-34%, run-off with Cecchini 15/27-56%
12) Gavin Cecchini (2b) 14/26-46%
13) Francisco Alvarez (C) 9/26-35%
14) Dez Lindsay (OF) 7/18-39%
15) Tony Dibrell (RHP) 9/23-39%
16) Jordan Humphreys (RHP) 7/21-33%, Run-off with Nido 18/24-75%
17) Junior Santos (RHP) 6/28-21%, Run-off with Nido 11/20-55%
18) Tomas Nido (C) 10/23-43%
19) Luis Guillorme (SS) 9/24-38%
20) Adrian Hernandez 6/26-23%, run-off with Wahl/Cortes 8/15-53%
21) Carlos Cortes (2b) 8/21-38%
22) Steven Villines (RHP) 4/16 25%, Run-off with Thompson/Wahl 9/23-39%
23) David Thompson (3b) 8/23-35%
24) Ali Sanchez (C) 9/17-53%
25) Eric Hanhold (RHP) 7/21-33%, run-off 7/20-35%
26) Luis Carpio (IF) 4/18-22%, runoff with Uriarte 9/14-64%
27) Stanley Consuegra (OF) 4/20-20%, runoff with Uriarte/Valdez 6/17-35%, advances due to more votes in previous poll
28) Juan Uriarte (C) 4/19-21%
29) Freddy Valdez (OF) 7/17-41%
30) Daniel Zamora (LHP) 3/17-18%, run-off with Montes De Oca 10/12-83%
31) Jaylen Palmer (??) 3/12-25%, run-off with Montes de Oca/Vilera 9/16-56%
32) Ryley Gilliam (RHP) 5/22-23%, run-off with Manea 8/16-50%, advances due to more votes in previous poll
33) Matt Winaker (OF) 4/22-18
34) Kyle Dowdy (RHP) 6/20-30%, run-off with Vilera 9/12-75%
35) Jaison Vilera (RHP) 6/17-35%
36) Jose Miguel Medina(OF) 6/17-24%
37) Jeremy Vasquez (1b) 3/18-17% run-off with MDO/Manea/Viall 3/7-43%
38) Patrick Mazeika (C) 4/13-31%
39) Walker Lockett (RHP) 5/13-38%
40) Sam Haggerty (UTIL) 7/11 64%
41) Chris Viall (RHP) 4/11 36%
42) Ryder Ryan (RHP) 8/13- 62%
43) Bryce Montes de Oca 6/19 32%
44) Christian James 6/17-35%
45) Joe Cavallaro 3/17-18%, run-off with Brodey 7/13-54%
46) Michael Paez (IF) 5/22-23%
47) David Marcano (RHP) 4/22-18%, run-off with Brody 7/12-58%
48) Quinn Brodey (OF) 5/23-22%, 9/13-69%
49) Jose Moreno (RHP) 4/23-17% run-off with Gonzalez 8/14-57%
50) Tim Tebow (OF) 8/33-24%, run-off with Gonzalez 17/27-63%

HM-
Yoel Romero (UTIL)
Gregory Guerrero (SS)
Raul Beracierta (OF)
Kevin Kaczmarski (OF)
Hansel Moreno (UTIL)
Edgardo Fermin (SS/2B)
Kevin Smith (LHP)
Daison Acosta (RHP)


The city signed an agreement Thursday that charts a path forward for development in Willets Point.

The de Blasio administration signed a letter of intent Thursday with a joint venture between the Related Cos. and Sterling Equities. The pact lays out a timeline for the development team to hash out the details on two potential scenarios drafted by a community task force for 17 acres to the east of Citi Field in Queens. One of the scenarios includes a hotel and soccer stadium, while the other is more traditional, presenting a mix focusing on housing and retail. In roughly a year, according to the letter, the city will decide which path to pursue and draft a final development agreement after soliciting public input.


Quote:
While working out a more granular plan for the mixed-use development scenario would be fairly straightforward, vetting plans for a soccer stadium would be more involved. Building an arena would require the developers to secure a letter of intent from a franchise, according to Glen. The team would likely be newly created within the United Soccer League, an organization with nearly 40 squads that play in smaller stadiums than Major League Soccer, a league that counts New York City Football Club among its members. While the task force recommended a stadium of up to 25,000 seats, the developers envision a facility with up to 15,000 seats, according to the city.


One calls for a soccer stadium of up to 25,000 seats, according to the documents. Parking for the venue would be shared with Citi Field. In addition, the plan calls for retail, open space, a school, new police and fire stations and a residential building.

The second scenario follows a more typical mixed-use format that would produce six blocks of residential development, retail, open space, a high school and a fire station along with a health center.

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Why would a team like the Mets  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2019 11:53 am : link
not sign a guy that they likely won't use in the post-season (in the same role) when they've been to the post-season once (plus a WC play-in game they lost) in the past 12 years.

You build the roster to get to the playoffs, and then maybe at the deadline shore it up to optimize the team for the playoffs, but even then, the goal should be to get there first then adjust to win.

To say the Mets have decided not to sign Gio because he wouldn't start in the post-season is almost a reason you can point to as to why they won't get there. Once Matz goes on the DL or go forbid one of the big three does then your season is in the shitter with PJ Conlon or Corey Oswalt making significant starts.
exactly - not building a team to withstand the regular season  
Eric on Li : 2/7/2019 12:26 pm : link
in large part explains a lot of the failures of this organization the past 2 decades. Certainly all the collapses during the Omar era. He made a lot of flashy moves (many good) but did not build a solid foundation underneath. Sandy built a strong foundation but his era ultimately was defined by bad choices and minimal resources to expand on that foundation.

So far BVW has been somewhat of a hybrid. But as always there's little margin for error because it appears he's fighting the same uphill battle his predecessor had with the Wilpons being penny wise/pound foolish in their inability to just admit a past mistake (Vargas) and move on. Or at least hedge.
If 2016-2018 has taught us  
Metnut : 2/7/2019 12:44 pm : link
anything, it's that unexpected injuries are likely to occur during the season. Sometimes, a lot of them will occur. The best way to combat that is with depth.

It's not unrealistic to see a scenario where one or more of Oswalt, Flexen, Conlon end up having to start games for a Mets team in the thick of the race (not to mention the realistic possibility that 36 year old Jason Vargas doesn't improve on last year).

I'm not panicking on this or anything because Brodie is likely aware of this, but we could really use one more arm. LAD, the team that's won the NL, and makes the playoffs every year, has a huge stable of arms that it can go to and was able to win again last year despite Kershaw and Ryu (not to mention top prospect Urias) all missing significant time.

It's not realistic to expect to match that depth (and maybe we don't have to given how strong our top end of rotation is) but it serves to illustrate how important depth is and given the awful state of the Mets AAA pitching, we really should be adding another arm.
Mets bring back Mesoraco  
Metnut : 2/7/2019 1:40 pm : link
nice little depth move. Ramos has been hurt a lot, as has TDA. Good to have extra depth there.
RE: Mets bring back Mesoraco  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2019 1:43 pm : link
In comment 14290061 Metnut said:
Quote:
nice little depth move. Ramos has been hurt a lot, as has TDA. Good to have extra depth there.


minor league deal. invitation to ST.
good move - needed another legitimate big league catching option  
Eric on Li : 2/7/2019 1:45 pm : link
he will likely be our backup catcher opening day, and honestly TDA should just hang out on the DL until he's needed. Still surprised they think he's worth 3m to do that when you can get someone like Mesoraco for near minimum, but I guess it's still possible TDA gets cut in ST.
If your concerns are Matz and Wheeler  
Shecky : 2/7/2019 1:48 pm : link
And not the 5th spot - you short a helluva lot higher than Gio. Next years #3 starter does need o be found, sooner rather try than later.

Sign Harrison for the Zobrist role, trade McNeil, Matz and Peterson/Kay for Bauer!!!!
RE: If your concerns are Matz and Wheeler  
Eric on Li : 2/7/2019 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14290074 Shecky said:
Quote:
And not the 5th spot - you short a helluva lot higher than Gio. Next years #3 starter does need o be found, sooner rather try than later.

Sign Harrison for the Zobrist role, trade McNeil, Matz and Peterson/Kay for Bauer!!!!


No issue shooting higher - I don't think anyone would have a problem with them signing Keuchel if the deal is reasonable. Gio could probably be a better value on a 1-2 year deal, but honestly there's no reason not to aim higher. I'd be willing to bet that even if they signed Keuchel, Vargas would still end up making 10-15 starts this season.
Pecota has Mets finishing first in the division  
ZGiants98 : 2/7/2019 10:12 pm : link
at 89 wins... tied with the Nats.
still hoping the Mets sign  
CMicks3110 : 2/8/2019 9:13 am : link
Gio, stretches out the rotation and hedges against potential injury. If Wheeler pitches like he did last year, we then have an elite elite pitching staff, given the additions to the buillpen.
Bud  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 9:17 am : link
Norris is a dickhead and sounds like maybe even racist. There is a reason he's available every year this late. Still time but my one gripe (beyond Harper/Machado)... really thought there were plenty of cheap BP arms they could have added that would have upgraded this team, also the SP market has had plenty of guys I would have taken over/in addition to having Vargas.


-Here's the question you should be asking yourself... if Vargas were a FA, would he be your pick to be the Mets #5 SP? If not, the Mets should be looking to improve. Hellickson only received 1.3. Add another option (Buchholz, Santana etc) Not even crapping on Lockett but he and Dowdy very well might not even be big leaguers. These aren't top prospects you should put a ton of faith into.And they may end up better than what's available but Buchholz, Anderson etc have actual track records of recent success. Add them too.
Dan  
CMicks3110 : 2/8/2019 9:21 am : link
what are your thoughts on the Mets bullpen as currently constituted?
RE: Dan  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 9:27 am : link
In comment 14290597 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
what are your thoughts on the Mets bullpen as currently constituted?


I think it's solid on paper with little room for error and could be further bolstered on the cheap so it would be silly not to. I loved moves like Blake Parker for the Twins. I also think despite his reputation Mickey's bullpen usage really hurt the team. Bashlor is a high octane 1 inning guy, wasn't used like that. Gsellman was used far too much.

I mean overuse is part of the game, you use your best guys the most because.. well they are you're best guys. But Bashlor CLEARLY wasn't the same pitcher when he came out for second innings. Gsellman is a former starter but that doesn't mean he's used to pitching 70 times or whatever it was. I still see some interesting arms out there for cheap. I think we could/should add 1 RP and 1 SP and both would be very cheap. I personally like Santana/Anderson/Buchholtz as the starter and the RP... Madson, Diekman, Warren level guy
I'm an optimist  
CMicks3110 : 2/8/2019 9:33 am : link
and I really thing Lugo is a weapon out of the Pen. With a top of the pen of Diaz, Familila, Lugo, I think that is a top 5 trio in baseball. I think if we see someone emerge like Drew Smith or Bashlor, that would be extremely helpful as well.

We won 77 games last year, almost solely on the weight of our starting pitching. How many games did deGrom not win because the bullpen blew it.

Our bullpen WAR was -0.6.

If you remember, our 11 game winning streak at the beginning of the season, the biggest driver was the pen. So I am hopeful this can be a major strength.

RE: I'm an optimist  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 9:40 am : link
In comment 14290618 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
and I really thing Lugo is a weapon out of the Pen. With a top of the pen of Diaz, Familila, Lugo, I think that is a top 5 trio in baseball. I think if we see someone emerge like Drew Smith or Bashlor, that would be extremely helpful as well.

We won 77 games last year, almost solely on the weight of our starting pitching. How many games did deGrom not win because the bullpen blew it.

Our bullpen WAR was -0.6.

If you remember, our 11 game winning streak at the beginning of the season, the biggest driver was the pen. So I am hopeful this can be a major strength.


See that's my issue.. a contender should be viewing Bashlor/Smith emerging as potential bonuses. Neither one is a sure thing (at all). They may provide quality innings, they might not. But adding someone like Madson or Warren or someone of that ilk provides insurance if they don't and if they don't... you're again very thin. We know injuries happen, we know a guy like Vargas at his realistic best doesn't go very deep into games. Pen depth is essential. I really liked Bashlor in the minors but he was scary bad in terms of how comfortable hitters look. When it comes to RP it's a bad sign when their first taste hitters make such strong contact because this is their first time seeing them. I still like Bashlor, just wouldn't shock me if he went either way.
As constructed they need too many innings from Familia + Diaz IMO  
Eric on Li : 2/8/2019 9:48 am : link
I think right now the pen sets up needing both of them to do what Addison Reed and Familia did in 2016/2017 - which was basically pitch perfect for among the most innings at their respective positions, each appearing in ~80 games. It worked out in 2016 when they were healthy (4th best BP in baseball) but did not in 2017 (3rd worst BP) with virtually the same personnel. In 2016 both players threw 77 innings with sub 2.5 eras. In comparison, Edwin Diaz threw 73 innings last year and it was the first time he went over 70. The 2 years prior he threw 66 innings and 51 innings respectively.

From 2014-2016 Familia threw 77-78 innings per year, which were among tops in the game, and I suspect a big reason why he ended up injured in 2017.

Just to follow the analogy through, the #3/#4 guys in BP innings that year were Robles (77 innings) and Blevins (42 innings in 73 appearances). Wilson and Lugo should be able take those innings this year.

So as Dan said - they should be in the market more for depth. The upside is being among the top BP's in baseball. But the downside is 2017 where 1 injury, perhaps coinciding with overuse, can knock it down far below.
Not just a contender  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2019 9:52 am : link
but a big market contender, I can see a contender in Milwaukee or Minnesota rolling the dice with what they have, but a contender in NY should not.

Yes, it makes a difference.

The Mets should absolutely add another starter. And I have convinced myself they will.

And they should add another bullpen arm.

Guys like Bashlor, Smith, Conlon, Oswalt, etc. should not be the first or worse only option to backfill for injuries.

Meaningful August baseball shouldn't be a stretch goal. I'm not even begging for meaningful September baseball, I just want to be relevant post deadline (and then I'll want to compete for the playoffs)
1000% this-  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 9:52 am : link
"they should be in the market more for depth. The upside is being among the top BP's in baseball. But the downside is 2017 where 1 injury, perhaps coinciding with overuse, can knock it down far below." you're a Diaz or Familia (heavy usage) injury from using guys like Lugo (with arm concerns) far more than you'd like and then you NEED "maybe they emerge" types to pitch well to even stay afloat. You get 40-60 solid innings from a Warren type and that's a potential 1-2 game swing.. a huge difference. Same with having another SP like a Brett Anderson/Buchholz type. These available options would be very cheap too.
Hate  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 9:56 am : link
to shit on a guy but PJ Colon in 2018...121.2 innings 162 hits (not a typo) 41 walks 87 k's 6.69 era. He shouldn't even be on the depth radar at this point. If he somehow bounces back, great.
Yeah  
CMicks3110 : 2/8/2019 9:56 am : link
well, we got some decent upside pitchers on MiL deals. And wouldn't someone like Warren be equivalent to Fernando Salas in 2016. A decent vet, but no guarantee that they're going to be good. And Salas was not good in '17. You can say the same about AJ Ramos.

I also forgot Sewald, who looked good in '17 and who's FIP indicates that he performed better than his numbers suggest.
yea to me the 2 big misses were Brach + Kelley  
Eric on Li : 2/8/2019 10:02 am : link
both basically got "fernando salas money" for 1 year and both have been good pitchers at the back end of bullpens for a long time. Could either implode and be terrible? Sure. Both could also be among the 30 most valuable relievers in the game. In a down year last year Brach was among the 60 best, which in theory means he was a competent #2/#3 guy in a BP.

Blevins was also a miss on a minor league deal. Yes he sucked last year. But prior to that he was among the top lefty specialists in the game. He's another guy who suffered from overuse the past 2-3 years here.

Adding a Warren type would go a long way though. As would adding another SP. With pitching you need strength in numbers.
RE: Yeah  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14290661 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
well, we got some decent upside pitchers on MiL deals. And wouldn't someone like Warren be equivalent to Fernando Salas in 2016. A decent vet, but no guarantee that they're going to be good. And Salas was not good in '17. You can say the same about AJ Ramos.

I also forgot Sewald, who looked good in '17 and who's FIP indicates that he performed better than his numbers suggest.


Not sure I understand the Salas/Warren connection. Salas had a 4.64 FIP with the Angels so they dumped him. He wasn't good and then came to the Mets and wasn't. He was already bad when they added him. They hoped for a rebound. Adam Warren had a mediocre but not terrible 3.94 FIP but still 9.1 k/9 and last 93 appearances has a 2.72 era. Sewald is a junkballer. His success at all is a pleasant surprise. He's likely not much of a big leaguer. Also, not really clear your argument of "you can say the same about AJ Ramos" makes a ton of sense here. AJ Ramos "on the cheap" as all these options would be would have been a fine gamble at the time. The issue was his salary/role/expectations.
RE: Yeah  
Eric on Li : 2/8/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14290661 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
well, we got some decent upside pitchers on MiL deals. And wouldn't someone like Warren be equivalent to Fernando Salas in 2016. A decent vet, but no guarantee that they're going to be good. And Salas was not good in '17. You can say the same about AJ Ramos.

I also forgot Sewald, who looked good in '17 and who's FIP indicates that he performed better than his numbers suggest.


Anyone can have a bad year - but there are strength in numbers. There is no downside to having more options. But your point is correct - they truthfully would have been better served signing another guy with true closer experience like Soria or Ottavino or Robertson. That may have been a better use of money than Lowrie considering the depth that already existing on the IF with Mcneil, but that's certainly debatable.
Ryan  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:08 am : link
Madson, Buchholtz, Warren, Axford (would love to give him a look are among the guys we should be looking at and are far better bets than Sewald and his 90 mph FB. If a guy like Sewald bounces back.. that's a bonus. Relying on guys bouncing back that aren't particularly great is how you end up scrambling.
This team needs a Pedro Feliciano  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2019 10:08 am : link
I hate to say it this way, but a throw away guy for the manager to abuse, but also has some skills.

Led the league in appearances three consecutive years - a couple of them pretty effective (before succumbing to the volume)

Who is that guy? Hopefully not Lugo or Gsellman. you know it's not Familia or Diaz or one of the lefties (Wilson or Avilan).

Not sure who else is good enough to be thrown in to literally every situation on almost daily basis.

Another veteran arm would be good.
Axford  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:11 am : link
8.89 K/9 average FB somehow still 95.5 MPH. 19th in the league in LD%, so he's still fooling hitters. Quietly would be a very nice add, and closing experience.
RE: This team needs a Pedro Feliciano  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14290679 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I hate to say it this way, but a throw away guy for the manager to abuse, but also has some skills.

Led the league in appearances three consecutive years - a couple of them pretty effective (before succumbing to the volume)

Who is that guy? Hopefully not Lugo or Gsellman. you know it's not Familia or Diaz or one of the lefties (Wilson or Avilan).

Not sure who else is good enough to be thrown in to literally every situation on almost daily basis.

Another veteran arm would be good.


Could be Gsellman. I think he's viewed as cannon fodder with some hope he bounces back.
Madson  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:14 am : link
also.. somehow still 96 MPH, 9.23 K/9
RE: RE: This team needs a Pedro Feliciano  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2019 10:14 am : link
In comment 14290686 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14290679 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


I hate to say it this way, but a throw away guy for the manager to abuse, but also has some skills.

Led the league in appearances three consecutive years - a couple of them pretty effective (before succumbing to the volume)

Who is that guy? Hopefully not Lugo or Gsellman. you know it's not Familia or Diaz or one of the lefties (Wilson or Avilan).

Not sure who else is good enough to be thrown in to literally every situation on almost daily basis.

Another veteran arm would be good.



Could be Gsellman. I think he's viewed as cannon fodder with some hope he bounces back.


So is Lugo the swing man/spot starter? Or is there no one in the bullpen who has that role?

2016 Gsellman was really good as a starter. I guess the league figured him out pretty quickly.
RE: This team needs a Pedro Feliciano  
Eric on Li : 2/8/2019 10:15 am : link
In comment 14290679 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I hate to say it this way, but a throw away guy for the manager to abuse, but also has some skills.

Led the league in appearances three consecutive years - a couple of them pretty effective (before succumbing to the volume)

Who is that guy? Hopefully not Lugo or Gsellman. you know it's not Familia or Diaz or one of the lefties (Wilson or Avilan).

Not sure who else is good enough to be thrown in to literally every situation on almost daily basis.

Another veteran arm would be good.


Adam Warren would seemingly be a good fit for that type of role. Brach would have been perfect and he's a NY area guy too.
Also  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:17 am : link
a final note on Ramos.. most people noted Ramos was in decline/not particularly great. The hope was he'd be able to replace Addison Reed (who people expected to get much more money than he did). Nobody (that I saw) expected AJ Ramos to be any great shakes, he was bad but it's not like he was pitching well until he got here. He had a 3.91 FIP with Miami before he got here, .3 fWAR after back to back 1+ fWAR seasons, it was "known" he was having a bad year, he was an expensive "hope he bounces back".
RE: RE: RE: This team needs a Pedro Feliciano  
Eric on Li : 2/8/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14290693 pjcas18 said:
Quote:

So is Lugo the swing man/spot starter? Or is there no one in the bullpen who has that role?

2016 Gsellman was really good as a starter. I guess the league figured him out pretty quickly.


Lugo is a reliever until Vargas gets lit up or Matz takes his trip to the DL. They will probably give Lockett or Oswalt or Dowdy first crack as a call up not wanting to yo-yo Lugo, but in the likely event those guys don't do the job Lugo is the obvious longer term choice.

You could probably make a good argument they should just put him in the rotation and sign 2 BP guys. He would probably have a better year as a starter than Matz.
Lugo  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:19 am : link
is on a starters throwing plan this off-season. Gsellman has been training as an RP. Brodie mentioned them both this week as potential SP depth (while calling Santiago an all-star lol) so I wouldn't read a ton into those quotes other than Lugo is intriguing as an SP, Gsellman I think had something of a fluky run. Lugo.. could be something there, some of the numbers suggest he could be a real sleeper given a chance. Lugo also has said he prefers starting, Gsellman said he feels comfortable in the pen so...
RE: RE: RE: RE: This team needs a Pedro Feliciano  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14290698 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14290693 pjcas18 said:


Quote:



So is Lugo the swing man/spot starter? Or is there no one in the bullpen who has that role?

2016 Gsellman was really good as a starter. I guess the league figured him out pretty quickly.



Lugo is a reliever until Vargas gets lit up or Matz takes his trip to the DL. They will probably give Lockett or Oswalt or Dowdy first crack as a call up not wanting to yo-yo Lugo, but in the likely event those guys don't do the job Lugo is the obvious longer term choice.

You could probably make a good argument they should just put him in the rotation and sign 2 BP guys. He would probably have a better year as a starter than Matz.


I'd be all about this.
Whoops lol this  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:20 am : link
You could probably make a good argument they should just put him in the rotation and sign 2 BP guys.
RE: Also  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2019 10:20 am : link
In comment 14290697 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
a final note on Ramos.. most people noted Ramos was in decline/not particularly great. The hope was he'd be able to replace Addison Reed (who people expected to get much more money than he did). Nobody (that I saw) expected AJ Ramos to be any great shakes, he was bad but it's not like he was pitching well until he got here. He had a 3.91 FIP with Miami before he got here, .3 fWAR after back to back 1+ fWAR seasons, it was "known" he was having a bad year, he was an expensive "hope he bounces back".


and he cost merandy gonzalez in addition to the $$$.

and I still don't care if Merandy Gonzalez completely shits the bed, it was a stupid trade.

It was like not protecting Jesus Flores in rule V. Flores wound up sucking, but IMO it was very obvious he'd be selected and there were other options.
RE: Whoops lol this  
Eric on Li : 2/8/2019 10:24 am : link
In comment 14290706 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
You could probably make a good argument they should just put him in the rotation and sign 2 BP guys.


Yeah I'd have no issue whatsoever forgoing signing a SP (Gio), instead signing 2 more veteran BP guys (Madson + Warren?), and letting Lugo compete with Matz + Vargas for the 4/5 spots in ST. Worst case scenario they all pitch well either Lugo or Vargas goes to the pen as a spot starter.

I just wish they would have added 1 of the better RP's earlier in the offseason if that was the plan.
RE: RE: Whoops lol this  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:26 am : link
In comment 14290716 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14290706 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


You could probably make a good argument they should just put him in the rotation and sign 2 BP guys.



Yeah I'd have no issue whatsoever forgoing signing a SP (Gio), instead signing 2 more veteran BP guys (Madson + Warren?), and letting Lugo compete with Matz + Vargas for the 4/5 spots in ST. Worst case scenario they all pitch well either Lugo or Vargas goes to the pen as a spot starter.

I just wish they would have added 1 of the better RP's earlier in the offseason if that was the plan.


I think this would make a lot of sense. There is something very intriguing about Lugo. Granted his arm health is scary but both the Cubs and Astros (2 smart teams) targeted him via trade. He's had a weird path but I'd be very interested to see what he could do pitching every 5th day and sticking 2 of the remaining FA arms in the pen.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:32 am : link
Wowzas. Twins RP Taylor Rogers second half... 28.2 innings 11 hits 8 walks 35 k's (.118/.204/.152) Bonkers.
I agree with Dan  
CMicks3110 : 2/8/2019 10:33 am : link
I think Lugo, if he's healthy and starting, has #3 starter upside, and it might be prudent to groom him as such, given the uncertainty of resigning Wheeler after the season.

With regards to bullpen arms. Brodie could just be taking a wait and see approach, and makes an in-season move. Allows the financial flexibility - if we're doing well, there will be arms out there to buy mid-season.


I wouldn't be surprised if the Mets have some groundwork made for a trade with the Rangers for Leclerc, there was some rumors earlier in the off-season of some substantial discussions between Texas and NYM, and perhaps they were gathering parameters around that type of ask.

I would love to add Leclerc or Felipe Vazquez from Pittsburgh if those teams are out of contention - which they most certainly would be.

Gimenez is the interesting trade piece here. He is completely blocked at the ML level. Whether it be Cano, Rosario, McNeil, the MI positions are blocked for at least 3-4 years and I see Gimenez being a Caesar Hernandez type player. Do you trade him for a high upside reliever and try to build a super pen to accompany a super rotation?
RE: RE: Whoops lol this  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2019 10:37 am : link
In comment 14290716 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14290706 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


You could probably make a good argument they should just put him in the rotation and sign 2 BP guys.



Yeah I'd have no issue whatsoever forgoing signing a SP (Gio), instead signing 2 more veteran BP guys (Madson + Warren?), and letting Lugo compete with Matz + Vargas for the 4/5 spots in ST. Worst case scenario they all pitch well either Lugo or Vargas goes to the pen as a spot starter.

I just wish they would have added 1 of the better RP's earlier in the offseason if that was the plan.


I agree with this too
another point on the bullpen  
CMicks3110 : 2/8/2019 10:40 am : link
and stockpiling talent there, with pre-free agency players, is that the Mets have spent a lot of money on pen arms over under the Alderson era, and got almost no return on investment.

Swarzak
Bastardo
Salas
Ramos
Alex Torres
Francisco

That's a lot of resource allocation to a position that needs depth and quality, and they were getting nothing out of these players. Addison Reed is the only I can think of that added value. Blevins was decent.

Having that additional cash to spend elsewhere, hopefully to keep the rotation intact (I really really hope we can keep both Wheeler and deGrom) I think is pivotal to success over the next 2-4 years.
Gimenez  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2019 10:40 am : link
should be moved to CF. No word they plan on doing that but that's a move I would make.
I don't trade Gimenez and I don't see any issue with him being blocked  
Eric on Li : 2/8/2019 10:44 am : link
a) Rosario hasn't locked down the SS spot.
b) Lowrie's contract expires in 2 years. Next year when Frazier move on, he could end up in a super sub role if Mcneil needs an every day spot. Or if Gimenez is knocking on the door.
c) 2B could easily open up with Cano shifting to DH or 1B in the next few years.

In all likelihood the earliest Gimenez gets called up is May 2020 at age 21. The only way I include him in a trade between now and then is if an MVP/Cy young candidate is coming back.
RE: Gimenez  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14290743 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
should be moved to CF. No word they plan on doing that but that's a move I would make.


What about Rosario to CF?

Who is the better defensive SS, Rosario or Gimenez?

Mets fans have been kind of spoiled with SS defense from Elster, Ordonez, Reyes, and now hopefully Rosario or Gimenez.
Vientos  
CMicks3110 : 2/8/2019 10:47 am : link
will be the starting 3B in 2021, mark my words. I expect him to skyrocket this year.
RE: another point on the bullpen  
Eric on Li : 2/8/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14290742 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
and stockpiling talent there, with pre-free agency players, is that the Mets have spent a lot of money on pen arms over under the Alderson era, and got almost no return on investment.

Swarzak
Bastardo
Salas
Ramos
Alex Torres
Francisco

That's a lot of resource allocation to a position that needs depth and quality, and they were getting nothing out of these players. Addison Reed is the only I can think of that added value. Blevins was decent.

Having that additional cash to spend elsewhere, hopefully to keep the rotation intact (I really really hope we can keep both Wheeler and deGrom) I think is pivotal to success over the next 2-4 years.


The total spend on every single player you listed at their peak will barely equal 1 year of JDG. None of them were anything more than journeyman. The entire cost of the BP this year is currently less than $20m - which is probably about the same as Wheeler will get per year.

Sandy made some terrible BP acquisitions - no argument there - but that's by no means good evidence that they should spend less. Spending too little was the problem in the first place. We got what we paid for. Spending even less is not a solution to a problem.
Do we think there is any chance the reliever modifications  
bhill410 : 2/8/2019 10:49 am : link
Go through? If so loogys no longer serve much of a purpose, well unless you are facing the Mets lineup I guess
RE: RE: Gimenez  
Eric on Li : 2/8/2019 10:54 am : link
In comment 14290748 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14290743 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


should be moved to CF. No word they plan on doing that but that's a move I would make.



What about Rosario to CF?

Who is the better defensive SS, Rosario or Gimenez?

Mets fans have been kind of spoiled with SS defense from Elster, Ordonez, Reyes, and now hopefully Rosario or Gimenez.


Gimenez seems get more acclaim for his fielding ability, the words "smooth" and "great instincts" seem to appear in every live report, last year BA considered him the best defensive SS in 1 of the leagues he played in. Rosario's range and arm strength were touted, but from what I remember he was more of a projection to be above average bc of his tools vs. already being considered a plus fielder.
RE: Vientos  
Eric on Li : 2/8/2019 11:02 am : link
In comment 14290752 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
will be the starting 3B in 2021, mark my words. I expect him to skyrocket this year.


I love Vientos but it would be quite an achievement to start by 2021. He's just 19 and hasn't played above rookie ball yet.

Gimenez has rocketed through the system faster than anyone since Reyes and he played his entire 18 year old season at A ball (which Vientos will only reach this year). And a big reason why he was able to move up so quickly was playing good defense at a critical position - whereas defense is something Vientos still needs work on (by all reports).
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