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Sean McVay...

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/4/2019 9:31 am
Can we please pump the breaks on this guy being the greatest thing since sliced bread?
He admitted he was outcoached,  
Big Blue '56 : 2/4/2019 9:32 am : link
but, at 33, he got his team to the SB..I’d take my “chances” with him
Great thread and insight  
jlukes : 2/4/2019 9:33 am : link
It's always smart to make assumptions, in either direction, based on one data point
His QB  
DC Gmen Fan : 2/4/2019 9:33 am : link
Didn’t help him much
Super Bowls..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/4/2019 9:34 am : link
can make or break both players and coaches.

Look at what getting crushed by the Ravens did to Collins and Fassel.

McVay has one of the best teams in the league personnel wise. What he'll have to prove is that he can coach well when that roster starts to deteriorate and how he'll handle adversity, something that Fassel couldn't do.

And if Gurley wasn't very injured, he has some explaining to do with why he was being used like a reserve player.
He's pretty smart.  
section125 : 2/4/2019 9:34 am : link
I'd expect he will be better down the road.
Goff  
DanMetroMan : 2/4/2019 9:35 am : link
was utterly unimpressive. Not saying he sucks but the hype is a bit much for this guy. Gurley not being 100% was what sunk the Rams. He does so much for that offense.
I think McVay is going to be ok  
dep026 : 2/4/2019 9:36 am : link
I mean in year 2 he made the SB.

I think the problem going forward with the Rams is aging, expensive players (Whitworth, Talib, Suh, Peters...) and there biggest problem going forward..... Jared Goff.

His last 8 games of the year were pathetic. 7 TDs and 8 INTs and 4 of those TDs came in the last meaningless game against SF. He got worse as the year went on.
PAINFUL playcalling...  
x meadowlander : 2/4/2019 9:38 am : link
...Rams NEEDED to establish the running game, never really tried - Gurley may not be 100%, but 10 carries was just stupid.

Would have liked to see them with a Gurley at 100%  
BlueHurricane : 2/4/2019 9:39 am : link
And Cooper Kupp on the field.
RE: PAINFUL playcalling...  
Beezer : 2/4/2019 9:40 am : link
In comment 14286482 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...Rams NEEDED to establish the running game, never really tried - Gurley may not be 100%, but 10 carries was just stupid.


But the jalapeno poppers and bacon-wrapped shrimp was AWESOME!
He lost the superbowl  
UConn4523 : 2/4/2019 9:40 am : link
he didn’t go 0-16. I think McVay will be just fine.
RE: He admitted he was outcoached,  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/4/2019 9:40 am : link
In comment 14286472 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
but, at 33, he got his team to the SB..I’d take my “chances” with him


I think this was a huge deal. It shows how mature he is at 33 years of age.
.  
GiantEgo : 2/4/2019 9:40 am : link
It will be interesting to see what happens going forward now that Belichick has shown a way to disable their offense.

There have been a lot of one hit wonders as far as schemes go but it seems only Belichick is able to endlessly adapt to any situation.
I'm not saying he's not a good young coach.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/4/2019 9:41 am : link
But people talk about this guy like he's some genius & all these teams are hiring people who have had just a conversation one time with him on an airplane or something.

The 'McVay is a savant' narrative is entirely overblown.
Maybe not having this conversation  
MetsAreBack : 2/4/2019 9:43 am : link
if Goff hits a wide open by 15 yards Brandin Cooks in the end zone in the 3Q.

Or properly reads wide open receivers on about half the third downs he threw into double/triple coverage.

It is a reminder that most coaches are only as good as their QBs will take them though.
Only time will tell...  
Dan in the Springs : 2/4/2019 9:44 am : link
don't get caught up in the hype. Is he a disaster as a HC? Obviously not. But is he really the future of the NFL? Last night provided some evidence that maybe he isn't.

I'm glad NE won, the McVay worship has been over the top for me.
I don't see how you can lay this all on Goff  
PatersonPlank : 2/4/2019 9:47 am : link
The Pats shut down almost every aspect of the Rams offense. So every once and a while someone did get open, it doesn't change that fact. when you have players getting open constantly (like against the Saints), then its easier to get into rhythm and make plays. When you get 1 guy every qtr, then you have to hit every one. That is hard.
IMO, the biggest issue I would have with McVays gameplan  
PatersonPlank : 2/4/2019 9:50 am : link
is not using Gurley a lot more. He said he was fine. The Rams D was well coached and played well. All season long the Rams offense started with the run. Without that to key off of its a different offense
McVay enjoyed running the score up against us last season.  
bceagle05 : 2/4/2019 9:51 am : link
Even kicking a FG with a minute left to crack the 50-point mark, when he could’ve easily run the ball into the line on fourth down. I very much enjoyed Belichick coaching the pants off that young fella.
I wasn't aware anyone was declaring McVay  
Mike from Ohio : 2/4/2019 9:52 am : link
anything but a very smart coach who has had a lot of success early and has a great future in front of him.

Yeah, the handful of people that apparently have been declaring him a savant or a genius should pump the breaks a little.
Most overrated team  
giantsFC : 2/4/2019 9:52 am : link
To come through NFL in a long time. You would have thought they would have won this superbowl by 30 points by how the experts and media were hyping their talent and coaching.

His offensive line didn't do him any favors either  
Hammer : 2/4/2019 9:53 am : link
Goff was under the gun all day. At one point it got kind of ridiculous.
No doubt McVay is an excellent coach  
regulator : 2/4/2019 9:54 am : link
but it's undeniable he was in a near-perfect situation this season, with three major contributors (Goff, Gurley, Kupp) on rookie deals, which allowed massive investment on the OL and all levels of the defense with 'luxury' pieces.

The window is closing now, and there will be some major upheaval after next season when LA will likely make Goff the highest paid player in the game.
He lost the Super Bowl  
djstat : 2/4/2019 9:56 am : link
13-3 to the arguably the greatest coach and qb combo of all time.

They should fire him....(Sarcasm)

He had a great season. Something is way off with Gurley and has been for weeks, Cooper Kupp tearing his ACL had a HUGE impact on them and they still adjusted and went to the SB.
As an aside,  
Big Blue '56 : 2/4/2019 10:07 am : link
sure, SBs can wreak havoc with the psyche, but who really expected the Rams to be SB entrants? Good yes, but SB caliber? Don’t think so. Imho.

That said, I was convinced that the Falcons could never be the same again (with that squad of guys) after incredibly blowing an ‘insurmountable’ SB lead, regardless of what they did in the regular-season. I felt that if confronted with a huge game again they would wilt
Didn't try to stick with the run...  
BillKo : 2/4/2019 10:10 am : link
.....even when he had some run plays on third down that could have worked.

Also, no screens. Best thing to do when you are getting rushed is to draw or screen.

His playcalling was poor IMO, and when he reviews the tape he'll see this.

But.....the guy is young as is his QB and they certainly can learn from it.
Rams  
WillVAB : 2/4/2019 10:24 am : link
It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years when the Rams have to shed some players for cap purposes. They went all in this year and came up short.

I do not think they’re the new model like a lot of people here seem to think.
RE: As an aside,  
Mr. Nickels : 2/4/2019 10:29 am : link
In comment 14286552 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
sure, SBs can wreak havoc with the psyche, but who really expected the Rams to be SB entrants? Good yes, but SB caliber? Don’t think so. Imho.

That said, I was convinced that the Falcons could never be the same again (with that squad of guys) after incredibly blowing an ‘insurmountable’ SB lead, regardless of what they did in the regular-season. I felt that if confronted with a huge game again they would wilt


Rams were the hot pick if not outright favorites to win the Super Bowl preseason
he got schooled  
bluepepper : 2/4/2019 10:30 am : link
still a good coach. Shula lost a bunch of title games before finally getting over the hump.

The hype has been annoying though. And to see teams desperately searching for the next Sean McVay was hilarious. Literally Zac Taylor's only credential for a HC job is his connection to McVay. Wonder how they feel about that hire this morning?
he didn't have a good game  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/4/2019 10:33 am : link
very few do when Bill has a couple of weeks to prepare
one thing that I never really understood  
UConn4523 : 2/4/2019 10:38 am : link
is why people get annoyed at "the next great ____" conversations. It generates discussion, its harmless, and if it doesn't work out it doesn't workout.
Losing to the best coach in history...  
EricJ : 2/4/2019 10:40 am : link
and to the best QB in history does not mean McVay is any less of a coach today than he was yesterday morning.

If that were the case, we would have been pumping brakes on Belichik after Cleveland
UConn..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/4/2019 10:42 am : link
it's probably just a reaction to overhyping of everything.

Snowmaggeddon 2019!!
The Best ______ EVER!!!
The Best Superhero Movie in History!!
The Most Exciting Season of America's Got Talent!!

We just can't be happy to enjoy the moment. It all has to be the best. I just don't get it.
McVay's Offensive Line...  
M.S. : 2/4/2019 10:46 am : link

...looked like complete shit last night.

Can't win with holes in your front wall.

Sound familiar?
When the guy has to bring up payback  
jpetuch : 2/4/2019 10:47 am : link
For something that happened to his grandfather, being getting rightfully fired, over 40 years ago as a reason running up a score 2 seasons ago, he can go screw himself.
RE: He admitted he was outcoached,  
aka dbrny : 2/4/2019 10:50 am : link
In comment 14286472 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
but, at 33, he got his team to the SB..I’d take my “chances” with him


I thought of you near the end of the game. After the TD, McVay had that same beaten dog look in his eyes that Jim Fassel did in the SB against the Ravens. Was wondering if you caught that.
Although still in the game, McVay seemed really rattled in Q4.  
Ivan15 : 2/4/2019 10:50 am : link
Performance reminded me of the greatest show on turf once the offense struggled.
RE: one thing that I never really understood  
giants#1 : 2/4/2019 10:57 am : link
In comment 14286616 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
is why people get annoyed at "the next great ____" conversations. It generates discussion, its harmless, and if it doesn't work out it doesn't workout.


Same reason vegans are annoyed by SB ads poking fun at them.
The other thing..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/4/2019 10:58 am : link
is that there are so many examples of coaches getting COY one year and then falling flat the next that there really should be caution when using the term "great" until it is proven:

Quote:
one thing that I never really understood
UConn4523 : 10:38 am : link : reply
is why people get annoyed at "the next great ____" conversations. It generates discussion, its harmless, and if it doesn't work out it doesn't workout.


A loss in the Super Bowl has taken more than one coach down for a long time afterwards. It really will be interesting to see how McVay handles defeat.

Also, some of the guys to win COY in prior years who then underwhelmed:

Fontes
Rhodes
Infante
Capers
Fassel
Haslett
Jauron
Lovie
Mike Smith
Jim Harbaugh


Coaching in the NFL requires a lot to go right that is out of your control. It's tough to have sustained success.
RE: He admitted he was outcoached,  
santacruzom : 2/4/2019 11:00 am : link
In comment 14286472 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
but, at 33, he got his team to the SB..I’d take my “chances” with him


Yeah, that in itself is pretty remarkable. How many coaches so directly critique themselves? How many say "I?" It's almost always "we," which really means "they."
His first two years as a HC  
ryanmkeane : 2/4/2019 11:04 am : link
he is 24-8 in the regular season, reaching the divisional around and SB in those years. He had a bad night last night. But I don't think anyone is pumping the brakes just yet
COTY  
giants#1 : 2/4/2019 11:06 am : link
pretty much requires low expectations and a surprise year. BB, the GOAT, has won it just 3 times despite the Pats incredible run over the last 17 seasons. Coaching a team to the #1 seed when you're expected to doesn't garner any love from the voters.
I think McVay's going  
mittenedman : 2/4/2019 11:11 am : link
to see the harsh reality of the NFL touched on above - sustained success.

Goff is going to need $$$ and both will have to live with the crap that comes with choking in a big game. Gurley may be damaged goods, Whitworth & Saffold may be gone soon. They've got a bunch of UFA's this year including Suh, Saffold, Fowler Jr and Joyner. The coaching staff is getting picked apart: Wade Phillips is getting old, OC Matt LaFleur is off to the Packers and it looks like QB Coach Zac Taylor is off to the Bengals.

And now there's blueprint film of his offense getting shut down.

Everyone was kissing his azz and his head got huge. Let's see what's up now.
McVay  
PaulBlakeTSU : 2/4/2019 11:16 am : link
should get some credit for how prepared the defense was. Wade Phillips is a great defensive coordinator, but McVay oversees everything.

The offense did absolutely nothing. Having Gurley limited hamstrings them a bit.

But I thought the biggest problem was that Goff seemed to take too long to process plays and get rid of the ball. He had guys open, but the extra half-second he waited to release the ball allowed the Patriots defense to break up a number of passes. I imagine a lot of that had to do with dealing with Belichick's scheming to keep Goff uncomfortable.

I'm not sure what adjustments McVay should have made to get the offense clicking.
His insistence on running 11 personnel so much  
Section331 : 2/4/2019 11:43 am : link
is not going to work when coaches have 2 weeks to prepare for it. Let's say you have 20 plays you want to run, running those plays out of 3-4 formations gives the defense up to 80 looks to prepare for.

He's a smart guy, he'll learn from this, but he is right to take the blame last night. Goff was bad, but you have to expect jitters from a young QB in his 1st SB, and give him some easy throws to get him comfortable. It took McVay WAY too long to go to 2 TE's to help in pass pro.
These..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/4/2019 11:47 am : link
are two different topics:

Quote:
His insistence on running 11 personnel so much
Section331 : 11:43 am : link : reply
is not going to work when coaches have 2 weeks to prepare for it. Let's say you have 20 plays you want to run, running those plays out of 3-4 formations gives the defense up to 80 looks to prepare for.


The 11 personnel is just the breakdown of the players on the field. You can run many formations from that personnel grouping.
I get annoyed...  
Dan in the Springs : 2/4/2019 11:53 am : link
because it is used in arguments for a specific approach. Like we've heard/seen claims that the Giants should be doing what the Rams do, etc.

It's also annoying because it's overly simplistic. If someone said "McVay's doing a great job", it wouldn't bother me so much. It's the idea that McVay is doing a BETTER job than another coach in a much worse situation that is annoying.
Goff and McVey  
Dnew15 : 2/4/2019 11:55 am : link
are 24-7 the past years to go along with a Super Bowl appearance.
I wish the Giants had this "problem".
Goff’s declined play  
NikkiMac : 2/4/2019 12:10 pm : link
Had a lot to do with him losing Cooper Kupp
The newbie  
Carson53 : 2/4/2019 12:21 pm : link
was outcoached by the master. I think he is good young coach, he didn't seem well prepared for all the blitzes
and stunts by the Pats, specifically the LB's.
I am not sure how high a ceiling Goff has, but that was
a big wet dump yesterday. He was not alone, his O Line stunk, and his receivers didn't get much separation,
excluding the Cooks play wide open in the EZ.
That was such a late throw, easy 6 if it's on time!
RE: When the guy has to bring up payback  
RobCarpenter : 2/4/2019 12:23 pm : link
In comment 14286641 jpetuch said:
Quote:
For something that happened to his grandfather, being getting rightfully fired, over 40 years ago as a reason running up a score 2 seasons ago, he can go screw himself.


I'm glad someone brought that up. Totally agree.
RE: Goff’s declined play  
BillKo : 2/4/2019 12:39 pm : link
In comment 14286815 NikkiMac said:
Quote:
Had a lot to do with him losing Cooper Kupp


Yep..when they lost him, the offense seemed to just be off.

And while they appeared to right some of the ship versus AZ and SF - their last two games - they really hadn't.

Great run game saved them versus Dallas, and they probably should have lost to NO. Although Goff made some good throws in the dome.
When you score 3 points in a big game, a lot of people are to blame  
cosmicj : 2/4/2019 12:48 pm : link
But the thing that was jumping out at me was the Rams OL being absolutely crushed last night. The Pats were regularly dropping 7 into coverage, rushing 4 and getting to Goff. That isn't supposed to happen. Rob Havenstein was being beaten like every second play and the guards were giving up pressure constantly.

So it's fair to say that Goff looked off. But it wasn't just youthful jitters, he was getting creamed constantly, and often from the middle of the line.

To me, last night was an absolutely classic night of football - it's won at the line of scrimmage.
A Timid Approach  
Rafflee : 2/4/2019 1:26 pm : link
The Rams did little to Stretch the Pats D...it seemed overly conservative, but I don't know if that was the Play Calling or Goff's Reads.

The Pats' Defensive front must get Huge Credit for both the Pressure and Run Stopping in the last two games. They performed well over any predicted level.

RE: I wasn't aware anyone was declaring McVay  
NINEster : 2/4/2019 1:36 pm : link
In comment 14286516 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
anything but a very smart coach who has had a lot of success early and has a great future in front of him.

Yeah, the handful of people that apparently have been declaring him a savant or a genius should pump the breaks a little.


A good number of people are proclaiming McVay as better than he is.

It's a bit insulting when his mentor in the same division (Kyle Shanahan) who he used to work for is the legit offensive genius who put up a 28-3 lead on the Patriots in the Super Bowl when nobody else could do anything remotely close.

People will talk about allowing the comeback, "choking", etc. Nonsense....such leads are very hard to hold onto, and the Patriots caught some breaks too and were due for a good game. Point is, that was an elite offense and the main reason it couldn't be stopped was because it had excellent coaching/scheme, and the *pieces* put together to create problems.

The way Shanahan builds his offenses, he is very old school. Typically his offenses are ranked #1 or #2 in amount of usage of 21 personnel and putting a QB under center. He chases the premier FBs in the league, values a good C almost like other coaches value Ts, and makes sure not one skill position is overused. Julio Jones was a great luxury, but that offense would have still put up points without him.

McVay took Shanahan's offense and put some tweaks to it that might be more explosive with better personnel but easily gets exposed with a young QB and elite defensive coordinators. Too much 11 personnel, too much shotgun. You need Peyton Manning or Brady to win in the playoffs with that mentality.

Don't know about now, but McVay's first year he was notorious for ignoring the game when his defense was on the field.

McVay's success centers around being a very good OC mind with very good players on offense and defense, an elite DC, and a good QB.

He's pretty good but not great. There are several in the league better than he is and this Super Bowl proves it.
Fans throw around the term "great"..  
EricJ : 2/4/2019 3:15 pm : link
willy nilly... as if greatness is all around us.

Next thing you know someone will start comparing a player in today's game to LT.

RE: These..  
YAJ2112 : 2/4/2019 3:34 pm : link
In comment 14286762 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
are two different topics:



Quote:


His insistence on running 11 personnel so much
Section331 : 11:43 am : link : reply
is not going to work when coaches have 2 weeks to prepare for it. Let's say you have 20 plays you want to run, running those plays out of 3-4 formations gives the defense up to 80 looks to prepare for.



The 11 personnel is just the breakdown of the players on the field. You can run many formations from that personnel grouping.


Also, when you change personnel the defense gets time to change their personnel. Not good for the Rams who wanted to get to the LOS and set in time for McVay to talk to Goff before the helmet turned off. Belichick of course found a way to get an edge from that and McVay had to adjust to that a little late. I think that played into Goff's poor performance, McVay wasn't able to tell him where to correctly go pre-snap and Goff made lots of poor reads on his own.
The Rams cut Jamon Brown to keep Andrew Blythe at RG.  
No Where Man : 2/4/2019 3:39 pm : link
He was awful yesterday....
RE: The Rams cut Jamon Brown to keep Andrew Blythe at RG.  
M.S. : 2/4/2019 4:16 pm : link
In comment 14287199 No Where Man said:
Quote:
He was awful yesterday....


He's a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere man please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere man, The world is at your command

He's as blind as he can be
Just sees what he wants to see
Nowhere man, can you see me at all

Nowhere man don't worry
Take your time, don't hurry
Leave it all till somebody else
Lends you a hand
Ah, la, la, la, la
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