I have to say after watching this weeks Superbowl and last weeks AFC championship I think with today's rules you are better off with a mobile QB that can extend plays like Mahomes over the pocket QB like Brady/Goff. Esp with the you can't hit a QB rules in today's game. That said its time for the Giants to turn to a much more mobile QB in Murray or Haskins.
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And he may start a third of them.
You can win with any type of QB if you put a system in place for him. Part of why McAdoo failed was because he did not know how to adjust his offense to fit Eli. He did it with Coughlin's guidance in '14 and '15. You can win with any type of QB.
He's been called one of the mobile types we have to have next in other threads.
I'm pretty sure that nobody has ever been allowed to kill a QB. And, it's more than the league and refs that guard against that.
Ok....
What if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly?
Actually mobile QBs are not protected at all unless they slide and do it early enough like a Russell Wilson.
Pocket QBs are being protected more recently by the rules...
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I mean is that QBs that are mobil don't really have to worry as much as before. The refs and the league don't allow you to kill them. A pocket QB cant extend plays as well. Tom does a good job of slightly moving in the pocket he is one of the only ones.
Actually mobile QBs are not protected at all unless they slide and do it early enough like a Russell Wilson.
Pocket QBs are being protected more recently by the rules...
Not sure if Goff is mobile or pocket (after this thread), but there was one attempt to move where he ran down near the sideline and got clocked but good.
Is there a QB coming out in this draft that can't move right to left? I guess I need an example of a young QB that the Giants should not draft because he is too much of a statue.
And for the record, Goff is way more mobile than Haskins.
In my view, the best of both worlds is a predominately pocket passer with enough athletic ability that he can extend plays outside the pocket and, if coverages allow, run a few yards for a first down occasionally.
? LOL WHAT? People just create a narrative and than run with it despite as much evidence to the contrary at the touch of their fingertips.
? LOL WHAT? People just create a narrative and than run with it despite as much evidence to the contrary at the touch of their fingertips.
There's a difference between straight ahead speed and quickness. He's plenty fast on a sprint - but when I see him I don't see someone who is elusive or quick. If you want a QB who collapses when the pocket crumbles the Giants already have one of those.
Mobility is helpful, but let's not make it seem that being mobile ensures success while being slow doesn't.
But when somebody thinks Brady is just along for the ride, it is hard to convince them of anything logical.
Sacks count for negative yardage in college
Agree. Brady has been holding the Pats back from achieving loftier goals...
The mobile QB covers up some weaknesses up front, and makes it tougher for the defense to contain him and shorten plays.
Don't they actually do more to protect the pocket QB? You know, the one where brushing the helmet area or hitting low draws a flag?
I'm sure as you are mulling over how Brady is being impacted by these new rules you have a crystal clear explanation.
But when somebody thinks Brady is just along for the ride, it is hard to convince them of anything logical.
You really don't sound like you have much of a grasp of the game.
You mean the one who constantly complains (and rightfully so) that he doesn't get any calls on plays out of the pocket?
I think you're more apt to get the call if you are (inappropriately) hit in the pocket than if you like like a RB outside of it.
But in reality the Giants just need a good QB, mobile or not. Being mobile would be great, but can't be the defining characteristic.
The mobile QB covers up some weaknesses up front, and makes it tougher for the defense to contain him and shorten plays.
I agree with this.
To some extent, a really mobile QB is another player on the field to defend, not just someone that slings the ball, or allows you to maybe allocate draft resources differently, but it has a cost too.
A guy who will stand tall in the pocket, scan the field, and make all the throws.
This has not really changed in that it is still the prerequisite for success.
But this quarterback debate has a faction that treats mobility as if it is a plague, when in fact, given the aforementioned ability to throw from the pocket, and mobility to extend plays is desirable.
I can't say for certain to what extent, but the game has changed. Shit, it has changed since the Giants last won the Super Bowl. Here's a stat to make you think...
Since the Giants won Super Bowl 46, Eli has thrown 4,051 passes...that's more passes than Terry Bradshaw threw in his entire career.
Because of Eli's health and longevity the Giants haven't had to do much beyond dipping their toe in the QB water. They are entering a world that is very different than the one they encountered in 2004.
mdthedream : 1:01 pm : link : reply
game is becoming more like flag football.
You reference Cam Newton getting all the calls. YAJ correctly pointed out that Cam has actually complained that he isn't getting calls. And once he leaves the pocket, he's getting hit hard.
I still don't know what rules are favoring running QB's vs. pocket ones, and apparently you don't either.
The rules passed in the last few years protecting QBs are almost EXCLUSIVELY to protect QBs while in the pocket. Once they leave the pocket they are runners and the same protections no longer apply.
But please, go on about how a "mobil" QB (defined as one who can move right to left either slowly or quickly) takes advantage of these new rules.
LMFAO. i was looking for this comment, was going to say the same thing
Does not look mobile to me either. This is not a knock; he looks sluggish outside the pocket, and so could reasonably be called a pocket QB.
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...but Haskins does not look very mobile to me. Maybe can move a bit better than Eli, but I don't see why so many people describe him as mobile. What am I missing?
Does not look mobile to me either. This is not a knock; he looks sluggish outside the pocket, and so could reasonably be called a pocket QB.
Everybody remembers Tyree's catch against the helmet, but I remember Eli's unbelievable Houdini-level escapability that made it all possible.
Not that Giants scouting staff will notice.
Not that Giants scouting staff will notice.
That's the concern, isn't it? If the Giants are looking for Eli 2.0 they're going to have a hard time. Actually, looking at Gettleman's resume you see he has next to no experience being on in an organization that is drafting a franchise QB:
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1986-1993, Scout, Buffalo Bills
1986: Round 12, Brian McClure, Bowling Green
1992: Round 12, Matt Rodgers, Iowa
1994-1997, Scout, Denver Broncos
1996: Round 4, Jeff Lewis, Northern Iowa
1998-2012, Pro Personnel Director, NY Giants
2001: Round 4, Jesse Palmer, Florida
2004: Round 1, Phil Rivers, NC State (traded for Eli)
2008: Round 6, Andre Woodson, Kentucky
2009: Round 5, Rhett Bomar, Sam Houston St.
2013-2016, GM, Carolina Panthers
None
2018-Present, GM, NY Giants
2018: Round 4, Kyle Lauletta, Richmond
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Obviously Gettleman can't be blamed for circumstances lining up the way they have...in his career he's usually been with an organization that had a well established QB - Kelly, Elway, Eli, and Newton.
But here he is now on the verge of picking Eli's successor, and his only experience of even being around that type of process was getting Eli himself 15 years ago.
It begs the question: how much is that experience going to inform his decision making here? I think it's also fair to ask: is Accorsi going to get to weigh in?
A mobile QB doesn’t provide a competitive advantage at all. At best you’re treading water with 2/3rds of the rest of the league.
A mobile QB doesn’t provide a competitive advantage at all. At best you’re treading water with 2/3rds of the rest of the league.
Look at the last four QBs standing. Mahomes is a great athlete and definitely mobile. We're learning that Goff might just be the product of his offense. The other two QBs are over 40 years old.
You want to draft the next Brady or Brees? Me too. Where are they?
Once a QB starts to run, he is a RB and not protected by the strict QB rules.
Haskins is actually pretty slow,imv - in the Rose Bowl I thought I was watching early Eli film when he was chased out of the pocket. But that is not bad. QBs generally live longer when they stay in the pocket. But Terps is right, the conventional drop back passer does not exist any longer except in memory. But a guy like Darnold would be the new prototype - a pocket passer with escapability.
Tom Brady is mobile? WTF are you smoking. He's about as mobile as Eli.
Kyler Murray is a great kid. Interesting candidate. I'll wait to see the combine numbers, but I'm not sure that body will stand up to the rigors of the NFL.
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When none of the BBI golden boy mobile QBs sniffed the SB trophy.
A mobile QB doesn’t provide a competitive advantage at all. At best you’re treading water with 2/3rds of the rest of the league.
Look at the last four QBs standing. Mahomes is a great athlete and definitely mobile. We're learning that Goff might just be the product of his offense. The other two QBs are over 40 years old.
You want to draft the next Brady or Brees? Me too. Where are they?
If it was that easy to spot Brees and Brady wouldn’t have lasted as long as they did in the draft.
I think the play is to place a higher value on certain attributes in a QB coming out that the rest of the league doesn’t seem to value as much now. Instead of being wowed by athleticism and arm strength, emphasize accuracy and system versatility/intelligence. Peyton and Brees didn’t have canons.
Buying into the hype on a flavor of the year mobile QB does nothing for this franchise. Maybe they get a few playoff appearances if things break right, but the league is littered with QBs who fit that mold. There’s no competitive advantage going that route outside of if your QB is one of the lucky ones who doesn’t get hurt.
Dak Prescott and the 10 or so QBs like him don’t inspire any confidence in one or multiple SB runs. I want the next Giants QB to have that upside — not be a face in the crowd.
One of Eli's signature plays as a QB is where he avoided pressure.
The guy who seems to fit that mold is Jake Fromm.
That is nonsense. Mobile means escaping the pocket and threatening the defense with their legs.
If Eli had Brady's pocket, he'd be just as good. Eli's line collapses up the middle and the back of the pocket closes behind him. He has no place to go. And when the Giants had Eli roll, he looked very good doing so.
I guarantee neither Eli or Tom would ever or have ever been mistaken for Aaron Rodgers...
Its tough to navigate within a pocket where there is/was NONE.
You also haven't explained what rules are favoring mobile QB's. Wouldn't watching football each week lend itself to at least knowing that?
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Fair enough. Who's that quarterback?
The guy who seems to fit that mold is Jake Fromm.
That's fine by me. The only guy in this or the next couple drafts I'd take over him is Lawrence.
And there are a couple traditional pocket QBs in this draft that I'd consider in round 2. Stidham and Rypien are two guys that I'd be happy to land in the second round. Both played in and won a ton of games.
But I think we should be open to thinking outside the box a bit also. Tyree Jackson has got great tools...size, arm strength, and mobility...isn't the ability to mold those tools part of the reason we hired Shurmur? If Jackson is there for us in round 4 or 5 it seems like a low risk/high reward play.
That is nonsense. Mobile means escaping the pocket and threatening the defense with their legs.
If Eli had Brady's pocket, he'd be just as good. Eli's line collapses up the middle and the back of the pocket closes behind him. He has no place to go. And when the Giants had Eli roll, he looked very good doing so.
I guarantee neither Eli or Tom would ever or have ever been mistaken for Aaron Rodgers...
Eli would be just as good as Brady? Hmmmm.
Well, why stop there. Should we throw in Unitas, Bradshaw, Montana, Young, Peyton, Staubach, etc while we're at it?
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In comment 14287586 Go Terps said:
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Fair enough. Who's that quarterback?
The guy who seems to fit that mold is Jake Fromm.
That's fine by me. The only guy in this or the next couple drafts I'd take over him is Lawrence.
And there are a couple traditional pocket QBs in this draft that I'd consider in round 2. Stidham and Rypien are two guys that I'd be happy to land in the second round. Both played in and won a ton of games.
But I think we should be open to thinking outside the box a bit also. Tyree Jackson has got great tools...size, arm strength, and mobility...isn't the ability to mold those tools part of the reason we hired Shurmur? If Jackson is there for us in round 4 or 5 it seems like a low risk/high reward play.
In theory you’re right, but we’ve seen the Giants piss away too many mid to late round picks on QBs, with the same mindset.
I’d rather the Giants use those picks on prospects that have a better shot at being elite at their position in the pros.
I’m hoping the Giants wait for Fromm. I get the feeling he wil slip in the draft because he doesn’t have great measurables or athleticism — and I think a lot of teams will regret passing on him.