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Giants and the future QB

mdthedream : 2/4/2019 11:22 am
I have to say after watching this weeks Superbowl and last weeks AFC championship I think with today's rules you are better off with a mobile QB that can extend plays like Mahomes over the pocket QB like Brady/Goff. Esp with the you can't hit a QB rules in today's game. That said its time for the Giants to turn to a much more mobile QB in Murray or Haskins.
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Haskins isnt really that  
dep026 : 2/4/2019 11:27 am : link
mobile.
Only 5643  
The 12th Man : 2/4/2019 11:28 am : link
more of these fucking threads before the draft. Can't the moderators limit this crap.
I guess you missed the part where the defenses from both teams  
SterlingArcher : 2/4/2019 11:29 am : link
played outstanding.
Why post your opinion about which QBs the Giants should draft  
Mike from Ohio : 2/4/2019 11:30 am : link
when you have not even done a casual review of them yourself? Murray is a mobile QB. Haskins is not a mobile QB. If you've spent a bunch of time thinking about this, you should probably know that.
RE: Only 5643  
dep026 : 2/4/2019 11:30 am : link
In comment 14286721 The 12th Man said:
Quote:
more of these fucking threads before the draft. Can't the moderators limit this crap.


And he may start a third of them.
If you can't hit a QB in today's game  
Jimmy Googs : 2/4/2019 11:35 am : link
why don't we want a pocket QB?
No  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 11:41 am : link
not against Mahomes he took the pats defense apart. I new that Goff was not going to do the same. Pats blitzed him alot and he couldn't move at all.
Haskins is mobil  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 11:41 am : link
he can move right to left he just doesn't want to run.
A pocket guy just wins the Super Bowl  
djstat : 2/4/2019 11:42 am : link
Can't win with a guy like that.


You can win with any type of QB if you put a system in place for him. Part of why McAdoo failed was because he did not know how to adjust his offense to fit Eli. He did it with Coughlin's guidance in '14 and '15. You can win with any type of QB.

So..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/4/2019 11:44 am : link
now Goff is considered a pocket passer only?

He's been called one of the mobile types we have to have next in other threads.
What  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 11:45 am : link
I mean is that QBs that are mobil don't really have to worry as much as before. The refs and the league don't allow you to kill them. A pocket QB cant extend plays as well. Tom does a good job of slightly moving in the pocket he is one of the only ones.
Seems to me  
tony71 : 2/4/2019 11:46 am : link
Everyone keeps saying how much we NEED a mobile quarter back, yet how many actually have won a Super Bowl compared to pocket passers in the past 10-15 years?
RE: What  
Bill L : 2/4/2019 11:46 am : link
In comment 14286754 mdthedream said:
Quote:
I mean is that QBs that are mobil don't really have to worry as much as before. The refs and the league don't allow you to kill them. A pocket QB cant extend plays as well. Tom does a good job of slightly moving in the pocket he is one of the only ones.


I'm pretty sure that nobody has ever been allowed to kill a QB. And, it's more than the league and refs that guard against that.
Just to clarify  
tony71 : 2/4/2019 11:47 am : link
My post, I’m actually curious of the difference..
I am not saying  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 11:47 am : link
you can't win but you need a damn good line to do so. A guy like Mahomes makes it easier on offense to extend plays and make big plays down the field. With the Giants weapons I think a QB that can move in and out of the pocket would be a much better fit for the Giants.
If Mahomes  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 11:49 am : link
was on the Rams they win that game.
RE: If Mahomes  
dep026 : 2/4/2019 11:50 am : link
In comment 14286768 mdthedream said:
Quote:
was on the Rams they win that game.


Ok....
RE: If Mahomes  
Bill L : 2/4/2019 11:51 am : link
In comment 14286768 mdthedream said:
Quote:
was on the Rams they win that game.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly?

RE: What  
Jimmy Googs : 2/4/2019 11:51 am : link
In comment 14286754 mdthedream said:
Quote:
I mean is that QBs that are mobil don't really have to worry as much as before. The refs and the league don't allow you to kill them. A pocket QB cant extend plays as well. Tom does a good job of slightly moving in the pocket he is one of the only ones.


Actually mobile QBs are not protected at all unless they slide and do it early enough like a Russell Wilson.

Pocket QBs are being protected more recently by the rules...
RE: RE: What  
Bill L : 2/4/2019 11:53 am : link
In comment 14286774 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14286754 mdthedream said:


Quote:


I mean is that QBs that are mobil don't really have to worry as much as before. The refs and the league don't allow you to kill them. A pocket QB cant extend plays as well. Tom does a good job of slightly moving in the pocket he is one of the only ones.



Actually mobile QBs are not protected at all unless they slide and do it early enough like a Russell Wilson.

Pocket QBs are being protected more recently by the rules...


Not sure if Goff is mobile or pocket (after this thread), but there was one attempt to move where he ran down near the sideline and got clocked but good.
After 14 years of immobile Eli  
SHO'NUFF : 2/4/2019 12:07 pm : link
Haskins is a big NO just for that reason alone. He looks a twitch quicker than Eli, and that's not a compliment.
.  
Go Terps : 2/4/2019 12:08 pm : link
It looks like Eli's the guy in 2019, so we're probably going to have to wait at least a year to find out.
RE: Haskins is mobil  
Mike from Ohio : 2/4/2019 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14286748 mdthedream said:
Quote:
he can move right to left he just doesn't want to run.


Is there a QB coming out in this draft that can't move right to left? I guess I need an example of a young QB that the Giants should not draft because he is too much of a statue.

And for the record, Goff is way more mobile than Haskins.
Umm  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:18 pm : link
he is a 4.6 40 I think that is a lot faster than Eli. Haskins is the second fastest QB in the draft. This is my Blue north reports.
My comments were a bit sarcastic to an OP not stating his case  
Jimmy Googs : 2/4/2019 12:19 pm : link
very well.

In my view, the best of both worlds is a predominately pocket passer with enough athletic ability that he can extend plays outside the pocket and, if coverages allow, run a few yards for a first down occasionally.

That said  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:19 pm : link
Murray is extremely fast at 4.4
SB  
Giants : 2/4/2019 12:20 pm : link
19 of last 20 SB have been won by pocket passer
agree  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:20 pm : link
Jimmy that is all we need with are talent.
Yeah  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:21 pm : link
I know Tom has won a lot of superbowls doesn't mean it was the QB that won it.
This narrative about Haskins not being athletic is the strangest  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/4/2019 12:25 pm : link
narrative I've ever seen on BBI possibly. It's like people read writeups about him that says pocket passer - pass first qb and just make up their mind. Just google Dwayne Haskins scrambles and there is ready video evidence of him being a much better athlete than Goff. A twitch faster than Eli
? LOL WHAT? People just create a narrative and than run with it despite as much evidence to the contrary at the touch of their fingertips.
Totally  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:28 pm : link
agree Eli is the slowest QB in the league.
RE: This narrative about Haskins not being athletic is the strangest  
RobCarpenter : 2/4/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14286850 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
narrative I've ever seen on BBI possibly. It's like people read writeups about him that says pocket passer - pass first qb and just make up their mind. Just google Dwayne Haskins scrambles and there is ready video evidence of him being a much better athlete than Goff. A twitch faster than Eli
? LOL WHAT? People just create a narrative and than run with it despite as much evidence to the contrary at the touch of their fingertips.


There's a difference between straight ahead speed and quickness. He's plenty fast on a sprint - but when I see him I don't see someone who is elusive or quick. If you want a QB who collapses when the pocket crumbles the Giants already have one of those.
The Giants  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:32 pm : link
with Murray at QB The speed would be crazy Barkley,OBJ,Engram and talented Sheppard this offense could be extremely deadly.
Eli and..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/4/2019 12:32 pm : link
Peyton have probably duked it out for slowest QB in the NFL the past few decades. And they have what 4 SB titles between them?

Mobility is helpful, but let's not make it seem that being mobile ensures success while being slow doesn't.

But when somebody thinks Brady is just along for the ride, it is hard to convince them of anything logical.
Look  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:33 pm : link
Eli has slowed down even more over the years. He is older and now less mobil. Haskins is no where near that slow. Hell Eli has never been a 4.6 guy.
Eli college run stat  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:36 pm : link
48 attempts for -48. LOL
IN 2002  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:37 pm : link
39 attempts for -120.
I think Tom  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:40 pm : link
was great and one of a kind. I think the game is going to more of a athletic QB because of the rules. I also think a QB that can move can make a oline look better compared to a guy that can't move at all.
At what point  
dep026 : 2/4/2019 12:44 pm : link
will people realize he has said the same thing day after day thread after thread about this?
RE: IN 2002  
rocco8112 : 2/4/2019 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14286879 mdthedream said:
Quote:
39 attempts for -120.


Sacks count for negative yardage in college
Nobody ever talks about it  
Bill L : 2/4/2019 12:45 pm : link
other than coaches and players, because the just folks focus on speed, and arm strength and wiggles and size, but more than anything, I want a QB who is smart. And, if we get one of those, we will have something that is also not talked about...continuity, rather than divergence.
Who?  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:45 pm : link
I haven't.
I think  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:46 pm : link
you have to be pretty smart and good to throw 50tds and only 8 ints.
RE: Yeah  
Jimmy Googs : 2/4/2019 12:47 pm : link
In comment 14286843 mdthedream said:
Quote:
I know Tom has won a lot of superbowls doesn't mean it was the QB that won it.


Agree. Brady has been holding the Pats back from achieving loftier goals...
I think fans conflate concepts  
JonC : 2/4/2019 12:51 pm : link
You will still be successful in the modern NFL with a pure pocket passer. You have to build an OL to protect him so he can work to his strengths. See : Tom Brady and his six rings.

The mobile QB covers up some weaknesses up front, and makes it tougher for the defense to contain him and shorten plays.
that  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:51 pm : link
comment was about how many qbs that are mobile have won a superbowl lately. Hell I would argue Tom is very mobil.
Can you..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/4/2019 12:51 pm : link
please tell us how the rules favor a mobile QB?

Don't they actually do more to protect the pocket QB? You know, the one where brushing the helmet area or hitting low draws a flag?

I'm sure as you are mulling over how Brady is being impacted by these new rules you have a crystal clear explanation.
Tom  
mdthedream : 2/4/2019 12:52 pm : link
makes his Oline look better as well because he moves into the right holes and pockets that form.
I think teams have come to believe  
JonC : 2/4/2019 12:52 pm : link
creating the latter situation is more feasible, due to how difficult it is to find the pure pocket passer. RPO, read-option, play action is all used to create misdirection and protect an offense from its weaknesses.
Yup....  
ZogZerg : 2/4/2019 12:53 pm : link
Quote:

But when somebody thinks Brady is just along for the ride, it is hard to convince them of anything logical.

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