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NEED YOUR INPUT ON STEVE SPAGNUOLO--PLEASE........

ChuckP : 2/4/2019 4:42 pm
Hello Everyone; This is my First Thread ever here. I fully will admit to you all that Iam a "LIFELONG SUPER CHIEFS FAN" and have been ever since Super Bowl #1. I respectfully need your "INPUT", "ADVICE" and "WISDOM" on your UNBIASED FEELINGS on Mr. Steve Spagnuolo. I went to Wikipedia and a few other sites to look up his BIO and it said that he was the N.Y. GIANTS defensive coordinator from 2015 thru 2017 and also in 2017 Interim Head Coach of the GIANTS. You won't hurt my feelings but I really would love to hear from anyone that can really "LAY IT ON THE LINE" as to his PROS and CONS and if he's going to work out at the Chiefs. When I read up on his BIO in all HONESTY I WAS NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL. But maybe you guys can enlighten me on him. I WANT TO GIVE A BIG THANK YOU TO ALL WHO CAN HELP ME OUT. ChuckP
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BigBlue2112 : 2/4/2019 4:44 pm : link
CREATIVE BLITZ PACKAGES and HEAVY MASSACHUSETTS ACCENT
If he has the DL you will have a creative and active pass rush  
PatersonPlank : 2/4/2019 4:45 pm : link
Overall IMO he did a good job for us. Some years he just didn't have the players. Really nice guy too
In interviews, he says "look it" a lot.  
FranknWeezer : 2/4/2019 4:45 pm : link
So be ready for that.
Great accent  
Rjanyg : 2/4/2019 4:49 pm : link
Coached the 4-3 so I wonder if KC is thinking about switching schemes. Dee Ford might not be back for you guys after his offsides penalty.
SPAGNUOLO HAS REALLY "GOT IT."  
Mr. Bungle : 2/4/2019 4:49 pm : link
CONGRATULATIONS TO YOUR CHIEFS FOR LANDING THAT "BIG FISH."
love him  
GiantNatty : 2/4/2019 4:51 pm : link
he was the defensive coordinator when the Giants beat the 18-0 Patriots in 2007. Generally speaking, his defenses played with good discipline. He likes to call it aggressively, assuming he has some players to work with. I think you'll like him in KC, especially if you draft (or get) a horse up front.
The players like him and play hard for him  
Hammer : 2/4/2019 4:51 pm : link
He can be creative in the way he generates pressure on the quarterback.

In a nutshell, if he has the horses he's fine.

If not, then look out.
His defenses have been great...  
Dan in the Springs : 2/4/2019 5:00 pm : link
and also atrocious. Seriously, among the worst in the league of all time.

Granted, the talent hasn't always been good enough, but when it's bad with him it's the worst.

I don't think he stands a chance in KC because the offense is so well run there that the defense will almost always be at fault for their losses.

I think most Giants fans will always have a soft spot in their hearts for his defenses in '07 and '08, which were very good.

And as has been mentioned already, the players seemed to love him and play hard for him, for the most part.

I wonder about what happened to him in 2017. The 2016 defense was outstanding and really carried the team to the playoffs. What happened in 2017 is unclear, but it seems clear there was division and rife within the locker room.

Good chance that he's too much of a "player's coach" to keep down an insurrection, imo.
He's a disciple of Jimmy Johnson (Eagles)  
JohnF : 2/4/2019 5:01 pm : link
Johnson's coaching tree included Spagnuolo, John Harbaugh, Ron Rivera and Leslie Frasier.

#TBT: Jim Johnson And The Best Defense In The NFL

Johnson's defense was blitz heavy, he would have all sorts of exotic schemes. The down side was that you needed above average press corners, who are going to be on an island much of the time. Spags is the same way, you're going to have a lot of sacks, but you'll give up some big gainers.

Give Spagnuolo the horses (a fast, pass rush line that can rotate players, active linebackers, and good press corners), and you're going to see a very good defense.

One note of warning...his defenses take time to learn, so they won't be as good early in the season, or if you have a lot of young players. I expect him to do well in KC (he knows Reid from Philly, so no surprise). Also, he's a great person off the field, from what I've heard.
I think he's in a good situation  
JohnF : 2/4/2019 5:04 pm : link
He can take more risks in KC, that offense will allow him to do more risky stuff on defense, since the offense will cover mistakes. Also, the KC offense makes you try and keep up with it by going pass heavy, something he can take advantage of.
I love him. He's a really great guy.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/4/2019 5:05 pm : link
In terms of football, like most coaches, he needs the horses. If he has them then he can do great things. If not then it'll be a struggle. As others have already stated, if he has pass rushers he can so some amazing things. If he doesn't then he starts coming up with manufactured pressure and if you dont have the DBs then you will see a lot long plays for the O. Also, his system sometimes takes weeks into the season to come together. He needs great leadership on D so that the players buy in. When we won the super bowl with him he had Antonio Pierce as that leader. I saw you guys tried offering him a job but he chose to stay at Arizona State.
I do have to say that I remember hearing Spags had all  
robbieballs2003 : 2/4/2019 5:08 pm : link
these exotic blitzes lined up for the super bowl but TC basically told him to play it basic and let our DL wreak havoc. Not sure how true that was but I do remember hearing TC had to hold him back a little.
if he has good pass rushers, his defenses perform  
Greg from LI : 2/4/2019 5:15 pm : link
If not, cover your eyes.
COMMENTS ON SPAGS INFO..............  
ChuckP : 2/4/2019 5:16 pm : link
WOW, you guys are great. Gotta say you all have class and certainly have the knowledge about Spags. Iam NOW much more HOPEFUL than before I wrote this post. I wish there were more great guys in the world like you guys. Maybe and I say just maybe My beloved Chiefs will be fine with him.
If you give him a ton of DL talent, he’s pretty good.  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/4/2019 5:18 pm : link
Without linemen who can win one-on-one matchups, his track record is awful. Managing a transition from 3-4 to 4-3 could be rough for him. I don’t think he’s ever done it, and the challenges may expose some of his weaknesses.

Overall, I put Spagnuolo’s unlikely rise from the Yankee Conference and NFL Europe in the “right place right time” category with guys like Mike Smith, except Smith was less of a disaster as a head coach.
RE: COMMENTS ON SPAGS INFO..............  
robbieballs2003 : 2/4/2019 5:20 pm : link
In comment 14287331 ChuckP said:
Quote:
WOW, you guys are great. Gotta say you all have class and certainly have the knowledge about Spags. Iam NOW much more HOPEFUL than before I wrote this post. I wish there were more great guys in the world like you guys. Maybe and I say just maybe My beloved Chiefs will be fine with him.


The difference between him and Sutton are drastic. They could both suck but at least Spags will go down swinging and try mixing things up. Sutton was just a punching bag.
The game has passed him by  
arniefez : 2/4/2019 5:27 pm : link
As a fan who really likes Spags and really likes Andy Reid I think this a terrible hire. The last thing Andy Reid needs is a guy who is conservative and plays soft. Spags has become both of those things.
Good DC for talented defense  
bluepepper : 2/4/2019 5:28 pm : link
bad DC if you're looking for a guy to paper over talent shortfall. Chiefs have some talent and will likely focus on adding D talent in off-season so probably a good hire for them.

RE: Good DC for talented defense  
Ivan15 : 2/4/2019 5:45 pm : link
In comment 14287347 bluepepper said:
Quote:
bad DC if you're looking for a guy to paper over talent shortfall. Chiefs have some talent and will likely focus on adding D talent in off-season so probably a good hire for them.


+1
You're going to have a lot  
allstarjim : 2/4/2019 5:50 pm : link
of people saying he's no good unless he has great players.

When our defense had bad results under Coach Spags, there were a lot of players that were street free agents in the beginning of the year playing key roles and starting games.

Every coach needs some actually talented players to get good results. He's a great leader, he's passionate, he connects well with his players, and he's aggressive and he's creative. I think you're going to love him, he's a damn fine DC.
Agree with everyone here  
exiled : 2/4/2019 5:51 pm : link
He's smart and creative with the right players.

But also, you'll love the passion this guy has. He wears his heart on his sleeve. You'll WANT to root for Spags because you LIKE him so much. He's also a good interview, and the press will like him.
He's been the DC of three of the worst defenses in NFL history  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/4/2019 6:04 pm : link
at two different franchises. You'll hear a lot of people here defend him because they will always remember him fondly for his moment in the sun, taking down the vaunted 18-0 Patriots and their prolific offense. He followed that up with what was shaping up to be an even better year in 2008.

Since then, he's been pretty mediocre. He struggles to scheme away any weaknesses in the roster. As some have mentioned, when he's bad, his defenses are historically bad. With as good as your offense is, he might be able to have his pass rush pin their ears back and play aggressively - that could be a fantastic fit for him. On the other hand, your defense could be on the field a lot if he can't force 3-and-outs, which could ding your offense - Mahomes can't break records from the sideline if your defense can't get off the field.
RE: He's been the DC of three of the worst defenses in NFL history  
allstarjim : 2/4/2019 6:25 pm : link
In comment 14287373 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
at two different franchises. You'll hear a lot of people here defend him because they will always remember him fondly for his moment in the sun, taking down the vaunted 18-0 Patriots and their prolific offense. He followed that up with what was shaping up to be an even better year in 2008.

Since then, he's been pretty mediocre. He struggles to scheme away any weaknesses in the roster. As some have mentioned, when he's bad, his defenses are historically bad. With as good as your offense is, he might be able to have his pass rush pin their ears back and play aggressively - that could be a fantastic fit for him. On the other hand, your defense could be on the field a lot if he can't force 3-and-outs, which could ding your offense - Mahomes can't break records from the sideline if your defense can't get off the field.


I love how people lambaste him for New Orleans, when Payton was suspended for a year and that team had little talent and really it was a give up year. That team didn't even try to compete.

In St. Louis he had arguably the worst roster in the NFL.

And, every year, in this age of offense and 5,000 yard passers, we are having "best offenses in history" and "worst defenses in history." No DC is going to be good with really bad players. None. There is no "scheme" that is going to turn chicken shit into chicken salad. You can hide a player or two, but you aren't going to turn a defense with only 1 or 2 quality NFL players into a good defense. It's not going to happen, the players still have to execute any defensive scheme at a high level for it to work, and when you don't have players that can do that it sucks. The Rams had the worst QB situation in the NFL during his tenure there as well.

Here's what you need to know:

In 2016, the Giants had one of the worst offenses in the NFL. A shitty, bad, awful offense that was bad from week to week. Most defenses will not and cannot continue to perform and carry a team when the offense can't even get first downs and sustain drives.

The Giants went 11-5 and made the playoffs because Spags' defense was so dominant. I care more about how a DC deploys and schemes talented players, maximizing their potential, than I do about a the failures of a defense that do not have talented players, because nobody is going to make that work. Not even Belichick.
RE: He's been the DC of three of the worst defenses in NFL history  
allstarjim : 2/4/2019 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14287373 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
Mahomes can't break records from the sideline if your defense can't get off the field.


BTW Mahomes pretty much did break plenty of records this and KC's defense couldn't get off the field.
Think he is a top notch DC  
TMS : 2/4/2019 6:34 pm : link
who the players will gravitate to because he is fair, a hard worker, and very knowledgeable. He was ruined with the Giants, not because of his schemes, but the personnel he was give n to work with. Great hire. MO.
Still a great DC !!  
louinma : 2/4/2019 6:53 pm : link
Great schemes and pressure packages. Gets the most out of his teams.

His last two years with the Giants he had no talent. Don't hold that against him.

Good man !!

Lou
Must have the talent to succeed.....  
Simms11 : 2/4/2019 7:10 pm : link
Always seemed like a square peg in a round hole type of guy. He never really changed scheme to fit personnel and he often failed because of it.
As others have said above  
rasbutant : 2/4/2019 7:18 pm : link
Plus he is a good human being and a likable guy.

I love his aggressive play calling, I’ll take the lumps of the big plays. Way better than watching a Tim Lewis or Perry Fewell style defense any day.
Two major drawbacks  
Go Terps : 2/4/2019 7:24 pm : link
1. His defenses don't adjust well to injuries. Lose one key player and the whole thing can fall apart terribly.

2. By all accounts his scheme is pretty damn complicated, which can lead to paralysis by analysis for his players. I wonder the extent to which he has altered his methodology to better handle the CBA's limits on practice time.
RE: Must have the talent to succeed.....  
robbieballs2003 : 2/4/2019 7:32 pm : link
In comment 14287429 Simms11 said:
Quote:
Always seemed like a square peg in a round hole type of guy. He never really changed scheme to fit personnel and he often failed because of it.


Maybe there is truth to this but two things stick out. With lesser talent he was forced not to play his style of D. His last year here he wasn't blitzing a ton because it left our bad secondary on an island. So, he played more coverage which didn't work either. It was way more a talent issue than scheme issue. He does adjust.
SPAGS IS A GREAT GUY  
Trainmaster : 2/4/2019 9:02 pm : link
He served the GIANTS WELL in SB XLII, but I’d be CONCERNED that the game has at least somewhat PASSED HIM BY.
My man  
GiantsGiantsGiants : 2/4/2019 9:29 pm : link
He took reserve players and put them in games in the playoff run and they held up. I think you’ll be happy and you’ll see an improvement over last season. Congratulations and good luck
Spags is "GREAT" with "GREAT PLAYERS"  
SHO'NUFF : 2/4/2019 9:35 pm : link
but "AVERAGE" with "AVERAGE PLAYERS".
spams is a great personality but a so so dc, he’s not the sharpest  
plato : 2/4/2019 11:30 pm : link
knife in the drawer.
I agree his Defenses can be complex  
Daniel in MI : 2/5/2019 12:03 am : link
Don't be surprised if they take a while to come together. The year he took over, we started the year with some historically bad games. Then, things seemed to click and they became very good. As others have said, he's active and I have fond memories of him scheming and teaching with the guys on the sidelines.
YOU GUYS ARE TRULY GREAT.....................  
ChuckP : 2/5/2019 10:00 am : link
I just want to follow up this morning after reading the posts again with a "BIG THANK YOU" and I really do mean that. I now do have hope. When you just read somebody's BIO it doesn't really tell you the things that you guys have EDUCATED ME ON. Its the little things in life that really do matter. THANK YOU AGAIN. If you don't mind me saying this last season if we would have just had an average defense it is possible we could have gotten into the "BIG DANCE". Losing in OT by 37-31 was so PAINFULL for a guy that has loved his Chiefs ever since Super Bowl #1. But the one thing in life and football I have learned is just because your team got to the "FINAL 4" doesn't mean that you will ever get there again. Thats why the experts always say you have to Capitalize on the Situation when it is at hand.
If Osi didn't get hurt in preseason,  
Doomster : 2/5/2019 10:17 am : link
and if Plax didn't shoot himself, man, 2008 would have been something...

So Spag's did lose Osi and Strahan the following year, and yet the defense gave up less points in 2008 compared to 2007, 294 vs 351.....

A word of warning  
Bramton1 : 2/5/2019 10:44 am : link
Giants fans will give you a good amount of praise about him. But if you talk to Saints fans, as soon as they finish ranting about the recent NFC Championship Game, they will probably bash Spags like there is no tomorrow.
RE: RE: He's been the DC of three of the worst defenses in NFL history  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/5/2019 10:46 am : link
In comment 14287390 allstarjim said:
Quote:
And, every year, in this age of offense and 5,000 yard passers, we are having "best offenses in history" and "worst defenses in history."

Go ahead and find me another defensive coordinator that has led three of the bottom five worst defenses in NFL history. Or even three of the bottom ten.

I understand that it needs to be era adjusted, but even in this high-octane offensive era, somebody needs to be worst, and more often than any other DC of his own era, that somebody has been Spags.

At a certain point, the explanations become excuses and you are what your record says you are. Spags is an inconsistent, mediocre DC, who Giants fans hold in extremely high regard for his work in 2007 and 2008. Unfortunately, those seasons appear as though they might be the outlier, not the other way around.

And for all those pointing to how aggressive Spags is, that's another fallacy. There were plenty of times since his high-water mark in 2007 & 2008 where you could have confused his defenses for Rod Rust's.
I think he's wildly overrated here.  
Section331 : 2/5/2019 3:51 pm : link
I get it, he devised a plan to beat one of the great offenses ever, but he did it with one HOF'er and 2 borderline HOF'ers on his front 4. His ace package was creative, but he had to find a way to get his 4 best pass rushers in the game for passing downs. Given ordinary players, his defenses really struggled.

His name is difficult to pronounce  
Number17 : 2/5/2019 5:27 pm : link
Hence, I think people start out saying SPAG-NU-OLO, but eventually give up and just call him SPAGS.
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