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NFT: Knicks Chat: More moves? Knicks done?

DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 9:11 am
-58 mins ago Ė via Sporting News
Saric could find himself on the trade block by Thursday. The Wolves likely would prefer to wait until the offseason to make a trade involving what was supposed to be the most valuable piece they got in return for Butler, but according to one league executive, ďHe could be had for a decent offer, a first-rounder and a player.Ē

-58 mins ago Ė via ESPN
Brian Windhorst: Jeremy Lin is out there. I think there is a good chance Jeremy Lin is going to get traded to somebody who needs a quality guard.

(Linsanity aside, Jeremy Lin is a solid NBA guard. People often refuse to acknowledge this given his time here. Don't look now but the Hawks could be a team to watch quicker than we think. TONS of picks, Trae Young is legit, Collins is one of the most underrated young bigs in the league, Huerter is having a solid age 20 season. I'm not saying it happens overnight but they are a team to watch.

-Brian Windhorst mentioned that New York plans to keep the two-time NBA rebounding leader, though many have expected Jordan to end up as a buyout candidate (via ESPN):

ďOne thing Iíll say about the Knicks: theyíre making it look like they intend to keep DeAndre Jordan. You can extrapolate this out: [He] has a relationship with Kevin Durant. Although I donít know how [the Knicks can retain the big man]. I mean, they canít keep him at any real number.Ē


But one more-modern legend says that Hardenís ball-dominant style during the streak, while impressive and perhaps even necessary, will not help the Rockets win an NBA title. Surprisingly that legend is Kobe Bryant ďIím not a fan of in terms of winning championships, I donít think that style is ever going to win championships,Ē Bryant, the former Los Angeles Lakers star said in a clip released from an upcoming episode of ESPNís ďThe Jump.Ē Ė via USA Today Sports
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.  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 2:44 pm : link
Turner is legit. Writes for the LA Times. He "confirms" the pick request stuff too

"The Lakers were not going to give the Pelicans the six to eight draft picks they wanted for Davis, the person said, knowing that the four first-round picks and second-round picks were more than the Lakers would offer."
There's bad blood between the Pelicans and Rob Pelinka  
bceagle05 : 2/5/2019 2:48 pm : link
dating back to his days as an agent - this is no sure thing for the Lakers. Unfortunately for the Knicks, the Celtics are the most viable alternative come June/July.
some more details on KP trade  
Enzo : 2/5/2019 3:00 pm : link
in the latest Marc Stein newsletter (which is always a decent read).
...  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 3:07 pm : link
if the Pelicans insist  
Enzo : 2/5/2019 3:12 pm : link
on including Solomon Hill, it's going to decrease what they're getting back. Take him out of the deal and an offer that includes 3 or 4 #1 picks seems more realistic.
RE: if the Pelicans insist  
Strahan91 : 2/5/2019 3:14 pm : link
In comment 14288193 Enzo said:
Quote:
on including Solomon Hill, it's going to decrease what they're getting back. Take him out of the deal and an offer that includes 3 or 4 #1 picks seems more realistic.

I think they prefer to wait until the summer but want to use the deadline and fear of the Celtics this summer to see if they can scare the Lakers into some godfather offer. 4 firsts, Ingram, Ball and Kuzma alone is a ton for a guy with a year left on his deal no matter how good he is unless he's a top 10 player of all time like Lebron in his prime or something.
Not  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 3:18 pm : link
that I even value Lonzo but given what Lavar is saying his value has to be even lower to NO. Who wants to deal with Lavar pushing him somewhere else? Who is giving fair value for him knowing this?
the more that comes out about kp  
nygiants16 : 2/5/2019 3:19 pm : link
the more you realize janis is in ovrr his head
Not sure who's ego is worse  
Strahan91 : 2/5/2019 3:20 pm : link
Janis or Lavar...
Womp womp-Stein  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 3:21 pm : link
The Knicks approached the Sacramento Kings on De'Aaron Fox as well as the Utah Jazz on Donovan Mitchell while offering Porzingis. Both second-year players were deemed untouchable in Porzingis talks.

The Knicks always knew the Mavericks would be interested in meeting their price for Porzingis. One official from the Mavericks estimated that they approached the Knicks "about a hundred times" before they were willing to even discuss trading Porzingis.

Dennis Smith Jr. is also a second-year guard but he's had a slower start to his career than Mitchell and Fox.
RE: Womp womp-Stein  
Strahan91 : 2/5/2019 3:23 pm : link
In comment 14288214 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
The Knicks approached the Sacramento Kings on De'Aaron Fox as well as the Utah Jazz on Donovan Mitchell while offering Porzingis. Both second-year players were deemed untouchable in Porzingis talks.

The Knicks always knew the Mavericks would be interested in meeting their price for Porzingis. One official from the Mavericks estimated that they approached the Knicks "about a hundred times" before they were willing to even discuss trading Porzingis.

Dennis Smith Jr. is also a second-year guard but he's had a slower start to his career than Mitchell and Fox.

Fox really took a step forward this year. I wonder how much Luka impacted Smith's potential improvement from year 1 to year 2. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
RE: RE: Womp womp-Stein  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14288219 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14288214 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


The Knicks approached the Sacramento Kings on De'Aaron Fox as well as the Utah Jazz on Donovan Mitchell while offering Porzingis. Both second-year players were deemed untouchable in Porzingis talks.

The Knicks always knew the Mavericks would be interested in meeting their price for Porzingis. One official from the Mavericks estimated that they approached the Knicks "about a hundred times" before they were willing to even discuss trading Porzingis.

Dennis Smith Jr. is also a second-year guard but he's had a slower start to his career than Mitchell and Fox.


Fox really took a step forward this year. I wonder how much Luka impacted Smith's potential improvement from year 1 to year 2. I guess we'll find out soon enough.


I'd love to blame Luka but Smith wasn't good last year either. I say that as someone who badly wanted us to pick him.
RE: Not  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/5/2019 3:27 pm : link
In comment 14287961 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
really sure why this is "trade happy". Bamba is 20 years old and having a very solid rookie campaign. DSJ is a year older. That's not to say he can't develop but I'm not really clear as to why him potentially improving makes him a better piece to have. Everyone is dreaming of Irving and Durant or even just Durant and someone else.. in these scenario DSJ is NOT a good fit other than maybe a scoring backup. Bamba's skill set fits any scenario going forward.


I disagree with the idea that he would somehow not be a good fit. What makes him a bad fit? He'd simply by a backup. As soon as you fill your max slots you're going to be scrambling for any and all quality players to fill out the roster, and on a budget. Especially if Kyrie is here, who misses games often enough.
I do want to see smith  
nygiants16 : 2/5/2019 3:27 pm : link
with the ball in his hands, he had 6 assists on sunday and probably should of had 10 or more
I was very annoyed about this trade last week  
Oscar : 2/5/2019 3:28 pm : link
I am fine with it now. Itís clear that the Knicks beat option was to trade him pre-deadline and it sounds like they did shop him. And the frankly the return was pretty good, DSJ who is young and could improve or be flipped to another team, two expiring contracts, two first round picks and dumping Hardaway and Lee. That is a LOT for a disgruntled player who could have walked for nothing after next season.

KP is a unique talent and I wanted it to work in New York. There is risk involved for Dallas though, he may not ever stay healthy. This is not revisionist history either, even when KP was with the Knicks my big fear was that he was simply too tall and lanky to ever really stay healthy. Heís missed a lot of time and now has the ACL.

I also always worried about his brothers who seem like complete idiots.

All around smart move by the Knicks which is rare to say.
I forgot to say. By all accounts  
Strahan91 : 2/5/2019 3:31 pm : link
last year Smith was as good if not better than Fox. I liked Fox more predraft but Smith has a ton of upside, just needed to improve in multiple areas where Fox didn't
RE: RE: Not  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 3:33 pm : link
In comment 14288224 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14287961 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


really sure why this is "trade happy". Bamba is 20 years old and having a very solid rookie campaign. DSJ is a year older. That's not to say he can't develop but I'm not really clear as to why him potentially improving makes him a better piece to have. Everyone is dreaming of Irving and Durant or even just Durant and someone else.. in these scenario DSJ is NOT a good fit other than maybe a scoring backup. Bamba's skill set fits any scenario going forward.



I disagree with the idea that he would somehow not be a good fit. What makes him a bad fit? He'd simply by a backup. As soon as you fill your max slots you're going to be scrambling for any and all quality players to fill out the roster, and on a budget. Especially if Kyrie is here, who misses games often enough.


He's an awful defensive player at this point and a dribble heavy scoring PG at his best. You can find scoring PG's pretty easily if you're fine with mediocre. He's been really, really bad through 102 NBA games. Veteran's will be lining up to come off the bench for the Knicks if they somehow do this. Bamba can start for this team with his length and athleticism. Smith will have no such chance if things go to plan.
Again  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 3:36 pm : link
Mo Bamba... 30% from 3, Dennis Smith Jr. through 102 games career 32%. If we are "assuming" Smith improves going forward in his second season why would Bamba? A year younger and already producing? Smith has had a few good games but overall he's really been horrendous. Career NEGATIVE -0.2 VORP. He's been worse than a replacement level NBA player.
Potential  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 3:40 pm : link
back up PG targets would include (and again this means we have fully given up on Frank even being that), Lin, Payne, Dunn, Barea, Isaiah Thomas, Ish Smith, Quinn Cook, Cory Joseph... I mean there are TONS of guys like this available via FA.
Beverley  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 3:42 pm : link
Shelvin Mack... Now if Smith has some big break out then that's great (obviously) but very limited value as currently constituted. So far in his career he's Mudiay. A guy the Knicks will be moving on from.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 3:46 pm : link
The reasons LA is so desperate to get this done now:

1) AD is not a free agent until 2020, meaning the Lakers would have to preserve space until then. Thatís basically punting on being a real contender in 2019-20 (LeBronís 17th season). Not happening.
Nate Jones
Nate Jones
@JonesOnTheNBA

11m
2) They know Boston is determined to trade for him so the Lakers need to get this done before Boston can get in the mix in the offseason. (I also wouldnít discount NYK potentially getting Zion as a real factor too)
Nate Jones
Nate Jones
@JonesOnTheNBA

7m
A lot of folks ask this, but if the Lakers donít preserve space until 2020 (Iíve explained why they wonít), AD is going to leave the Celtics for what team?
There's more projection with Bamba.  
Strahan91 : 2/5/2019 3:48 pm : link
Smith has improved in every single shooting category from year 1 to year 2 so it's not a huge leap to say there's more room for improvement there. Overall, the numbers still aren't good but it's a step in the right direction at least. Bamba could too but there's just nothing to go off of at this time.

Smith is a better passer than the numbers would indicate and people give him credit for imo. He's just a bit erratic at times and doesn't take the best of shots. That may partially be the Mavs' fault who gave him the keys and let him do as he pleased as a rookie. Hopefully that pays dividends for us though.

Defensively, I don't know if he can ever be average though. His technique is awful and he has a ways to go which won't be easy at his height/wingspan.
not that smith is any good  
nygiants16 : 2/5/2019 3:49 pm : link
but when is the last timr the knicks had an above the rim point gaurd?
Oscar  
arniefez : 2/5/2019 3:49 pm : link
Agree. A very rare smart move by the Knicks. If they were run by competent intelligent people this could be their Herschel Walker trade. Not likely though considering it's the Knicks.
RE: not that smith is any good  
Strahan91 : 2/5/2019 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14288254 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
but when is the last timr the knicks had an above the rim point gaurd?

It's understandable if you blocked this one out of your memory. I tried but unfortunately it hasn't worked.
Link - ( New Window )
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 3:58 pm : link
think Frank is a goner. Maybe not this week but I think they have moved on from him.
Lakers and Pelicans no longer talking?  
Ssanders9816 : 2/5/2019 3:59 pm : link
Talks broke down
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/john-tomase/lakers-reportedly-withdraw-anthony-davis-trade-talks-after-pelicans-decline-offer - ( New Window )
RE: RE: not that smith is any good  
nygiants16 : 2/5/2019 4:03 pm : link
In comment 14288261 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14288254 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


but when is the last timr the knicks had an above the rim point gaurd?


It's understandable if you blocked this one out of your memory. I tried but unfortunately it hasn't worked. Link - ( New Window )


he wasnt above the rim by the time the knicks got him though
How bout the balls on KP/Janis  
bceagle05 : 2/5/2019 4:07 pm : link
to only provide four teams that were "acceptable" trade destinations for KP. Only four teams in the league are worthy of his services? This guy better stay on the court and produce when he's making $30 million per season.
For once the Knicks were ready  
arniefez : 2/5/2019 4:08 pm : link
they didn't screw this up and they didn't get screwed. Really surprising. It's about time.
From Mike Schmitz's 4 undervalued players to target article today  
Strahan91 : 2/5/2019 4:14 pm : link
Quote:

Frank Ntilikina | G | New York Knicks

Few top-10 picks over the past five years have struggled to live up to expectations as much as Ntilikina. The 6-foot-6 guard was one of only 10 players last season to log more than 1,700 total minutes yet finish with a player efficiency rating under 10.0 -- a list that features Tony Snell (8.2), JR Smith (8.0), Dragan Bender (7.1) and Ntilikina (7.1). Ntilikina's offensive woes have worsened this season, as he's one of only three players to play at least 40 games with a PER under 7.0. His dreadful 41.9 true shooting percentage ranks dead last in the NBA.

The fact that Ntilikina was selected ahead of Jazz star Donovan Mitchell to a pressure cooker like New York has made the underwhelming start to his NBA career that much more pronounced. Always viewed as more of a piece than a cornerstone, Ntilikina would benefit greatly from finding a new situation where he could lean on his strengths: defending multiple positions, making good on-court decisions and hopefully knocking down catch-and-shoot 3-pointers in time. Just because the Knicks reached to draft him doesn't mean he can't be a serviceable contributor on a winning team. Prior to acquiring Dennis Smith Jr., New York's hole at point guard forced Ntilikina into a role he has never been comfortable with (aside from during FIBA youth competition) as a primary shot-creator. According to Cleaning the Glass, Ntilikina spent 65 percent of his minutes at point guard as a rookie, and that number has increased just 1 percent this season.

Over 78 games in 2017-18, Ntilikina used 259 pick-and-roll possessions, accounting for 39.5 percent of his offense -- the 18th-highest rate in the NBA, per Synergy data. Ntilikina's so-so wiggle, slow pull-up jumper, issues finishing around the rim and indecisive approach hurt him in these situations, resulting in a ball-screen scoring attack that ranked in the 24th percentile of the NBA. While he has been less ball-dominant this season, pick-and-roll still makes up 33.9 percent of Ntilikina's offense, and unsurprisingly, his shortcomings have continued. Although he has always been talented, Ntilikina played for a stringent coach at Strasbourg in Vincent Collet, and his shot-creation skills were never quite as groomed as they could have been.

As many suspected during the pre-draft process, he's not an offense-generating lead guard, and he would be much better suited on a competitive team where he can thrive in a role as a defensive-minded guard. Though his standstill 3 has abandoned him this season, Ntilikina actually ranked in the 58th percentile out of spot-ups last season. He finished just a few percentage points under the league average on corner 3s as well, according to Second Spectrum data.

Ntilikina is an ideal fit next to a big playmaker such as a Luka Doncic or James Harden. The addition of a ball-dominant guard like Smith (or Kyrie Irving, in free agency) may help salvage Ntilikina's tenure, but a fresh team may be best for the 20-year-old.

Ntilikina figures to thrive playing off of a high-usage shot creator. It's important to keep in mind that Ntilikina is still younger than 2018 one-and-done lottery picks Deandre Ayton, Mo Bamba and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. He never had the ability to thrive as a ball-dominant guard for the Knicks, but he could eventually return tremendous value on a competitive team that prioritizes his defense, smarts, age and physical upside.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 4:21 pm : link
think best case is Frank turns into Beverley 2.0. We keep hearing about his age (21 in July) but he was a professional in France and simply doesn't have the skills/athletic tools to be a big time offensive talent. His best shot is improving on his 3 ball to the point that's a major weapon. He's a mediocre ball handler for the position, okay passer. It's hard to identify areas where he's ever going to be "strong" offensively. Beverley has had a nice career, I think that's the upside you're looking at with Frank (best realistic case).
I'd definitely take that  
Strahan91 : 2/5/2019 4:25 pm : link
. More likely though is that some other team with more patience figures out how to develop Frank into a solid but unspectacular NBA player.
It's  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 4:33 pm : link
just very disappointing/strange how a guy like Fizdale, who seemingly would eat up a player like Frank seemingly has very little interest in developing him. Not sure if that's on Fizdale or Frank is that underwhelming?
Arnie- this organization has been a shit show  
Dave on the UWS : 2/5/2019 4:33 pm : link
for 2 decades. However itís becoming incredibly clear that this management team has a clue. And THAT is the reason they have a REAL shot at FA this summer. AND I can see them putting together a competitive package for Davis. It would have been great if Porzingas was the cornerstone we thought. But itís obvious now that it wasnít meant to be.
Frenchy is awful on offense  
Greg from LI : 2/5/2019 4:39 pm : link
Just horrific. Can't blame Fizdale for that. He was a wasted pick. Move on.
RE: I  
Enzo : 2/5/2019 4:41 pm : link
In comment 14288295 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
think best case is Frank turns into Beverley 2.0. We keep hearing about his age (21 in July) but he was a professional in France and simply doesn't have the skills/athletic tools to be a big time offensive talent. His best shot is improving on his 3 ball to the point that's a major weapon. He's a mediocre ball handler for the position, okay passer. It's hard to identify areas where he's ever going to be "strong" offensively. Beverley has had a nice career, I think that's the upside you're looking at with Frank (best realistic case).

or Marcus Smart. Which would be less than ideal but ultimately fine.
I guess Bamba is staying put.  
Strahan91 : 2/5/2019 4:41 pm : link
Adrian Wojnarowski

Verified account

@wojespn
now47 seconds ago
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Orlando Magic rookie center Mo Bamba will miss significant time with a stress fracture in his lower left leg, league sources tell ESPN. For now, there's no expectation that he will need surgery.
RE: I guess Bamba is staying put.  
Shecky : 2/5/2019 4:50 pm : link
In comment 14288322 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
Adrian Wojnarowski

Verified account

@wojespn
now47 seconds ago
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Orlando Magic rookie center Mo Bamba will miss significant time with a stress fracture in his lower left leg, league sources tell ESPN. For now, there's no expectation that he will need surgery.


In the minds of Knicks fans, I think his value shot up if he canít help win this season...
Just  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 4:58 pm : link
to be clear, Pat Bev has had a nice career, I'm not saying he sucks, he has value but that's the kind of player I think we have to realistically pray for. There is XYZ you look for in a player and Frank is missing key components. Obviously Pat Bev (in his prime) backup up Irving would be a great combo.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 5:08 pm : link
The Lakers havenít made a satisfactory trade offer for Anthony Davis. It seems the Pelicans just donít care much for Los Angelesí young players.

Rather, New Orleans would probably rather wait for Celtics forward Jayson Tatum. Tatum went No. 3 in the 2017 NBA draft Ė one spot after the Lakers took Lonzo Ball.

How did the Lakers make that decision?
Stephen A. Smith of ESPN:

What Iím about to say, Magic Johnson would categorically probably deny. Thatís my friend, my brother. I love him. If Magic Johnson was sitting next to me on national television and he said opposite or contrary to what Iím about to tell you, Iíd tell him, ďThatís a dó lie, and you know it.Ē

Magic Johnson would not have drafted Lonzo Ball if were not for Jeanie Buss.

Jeanie Buss needed a box-office draw. LaVar Ball, the marketing wizard that he is, put his son in our mindsí eye, had us thinking this brother out of Chino Hills starring for UCLA is going to be special in the pros.

Nate Jones:


Nate Jones
@JonesOnTheNBA
Itís 100% true that Magic wanted Fox, not Ball. Iíve said that several times.
The Lakers have been dysfunctional for quite awhile.  
bceagle05 : 2/5/2019 5:15 pm : link
Dealing with Lebron's decline could get ugly.
Would be annoyed if they trade Frank  
Oscar : 2/5/2019 6:39 pm : link
It makes no sense to sell low on a second year player who was always going to be a project. Particularly when the fucking team is 10-42. You can trade Frank for a bag of peanuts any time, it makes a lot more sense to see how he progresses at least into early next season.

Also the idea that Knicks fans in general are killing the kid is totally off the mark. People are frustrated but rooting for him, hell he seems like the most popular player on the team for a large chunk of the fanbase. There are Frank Stans everywhere. I am admittedly one of them, but even those of you who have given up fail to make even a remotely compelling case for trading him.

Frank, Knox, DSJ and Mitch are basically the only players who should be prioritized the rest of this season. Everyone else will be gone soon.
Durant still is avoiding the media  
nygiants16 : 2/5/2019 6:43 pm : link
blew off a pr event today
Fact  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 7:22 pm : link
Is even the coach seems down on him. The coach lauded for his working with young players. Moved on to pending FA Mudiay with the quickness even with the season long over. Maybe Fizdale is wrong but hard to argue the organization doesn't seem all that excited by Frank's prospects and that's a bigger issue than what fans or detractors think. His season has gone as poorly as one could have possibly predicted. Nobody is saying just give him away for nothing but I get the feeling from their actions and comments from both Fizdale and Mills that Frank is not viewed as highly as maybe he once was.
Frank seems to have no confidence, and is the least alpha  
yatqb : 2/5/2019 7:32 pm : link
athlete I can ever recall. That's not a good prescription for a PG. Having a pretty awful and inconsistent shot doesn't help either.
Frank N  
PhiPsi125 : 2/5/2019 8:08 pm : link
Another stellar move by Phil Jackson.

Jackson was so bad itís almost like he came to NY to purposely screw the franchise. Jackson is the most overrated basketball figure of all time.
Sheridan  
DanMetroMan : 2/5/2019 8:23 pm : link
Says Davis wanted to come here but KP killed it by refusing to commit to NO
RE: Sheridan  
nygiants16 : 2/5/2019 8:42 pm : link
In comment 14288467 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Says Davis wanted to come here but KP killed it by refusing to commit to NO


If true says alot about who davis thinks is coming
RE: RE: I guess Bamba is staying put.  
moze1021 : 2/5/2019 8:52 pm : link
In comment 14288335 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 14288322 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


Adrian Wojnarowski

Verified account

@wojespn
now47 seconds ago
More
Orlando Magic rookie center Mo Bamba will miss significant time with a stress fracture in his lower left leg, league sources tell ESPN. For now, there's no expectation that he will need surgery.



In the minds of Knicks fans, I think his value shot up if he canít help win this season...


Absolutely!! Was just about to post this.
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