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Francesser: Montana better than Brady

Mr. Nickels : 2/5/2019 2:33 pm
2 days after Brady wins his 6th Super Bowl
https://thebiglead.com/2019/02/05/mike-francesa-to-brady-over-montana-caller-you-are-out-of-your-cotton-pickin-mind/amp/?fbclid=IwAR2A6etj_moTksuoXCng85ZhHCKILPCcoLJjRZ7aZ5MSgM7qihGPV6cXj4o - ( New Window )
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Itís comparing Bill Gates  
Les in TO : 2/5/2019 8:58 pm : link
Vs Steve Jobs.

Both are icons who mastered their positions over a long period of time but played in different systems and with surrounding talent.

Both were coached by legends.

They were clutch performers who came up big when it mattered

I give a slight edge to Brady because Montana never won a super bowl having to make do with Deion Branch as his best receiver and also lost his job to Young at the end of his career
RE: Rating QBs based on SBs is foolish  
eric2425ny : 2/5/2019 9:06 pm : link
In comment 14288455 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Completely discredits the importance of the other 52 guys, coaches, fit of scheme, etc.


This debate is crazy on many levels. To me, you almost canít compare the two because the game has changed so much in the last thirty years. If Montana played today his numbers would be insane. At the same time, Brady doesnít have Jerry Rice to throw to either. I think they are both great, but if I had a choice between both in their prime, Iíd take Montana every time.
RE: RE: RE: No way. Do you see the offensive Ďweaponsí Brady has?  
DonQuixote : 2/5/2019 9:08 pm : link
In comment 14288482 Ssanders9816 said:
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In comment 14288477 bw in dc said:


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In comment 14288458 Boy Cord said:


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They donít compare to what Montana had with the exception of Moss for a brief period. Brady is the greatest of the past 50 years and most likely all time. I have no way to compare him to Starr or Unitas.



Tell me all the HoF players on that 9er offense when Montana won in Ď81.



It was the defense that carried them. Montana also won with some great defenses over the years. Something Brady has never really had


Just wrong. Pats defense, #1 in points allowed 2003, 2016, #2 in points allowed 2004, 2006, #4 in points allowed 2007, #5 in points allowed 2009, 2017, etc.

Montana also had some great defensive support. The point is for you to say that the "defense carried" the niners, "something Brady has never really had" is completely wrong.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Joe Montana was the best QB I have EVER seen.  
DonQuixote : 2/5/2019 9:09 pm : link
In comment 14288348 Ssanders9816 said:
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In comment 14288326 Optimus-NY said:


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In comment 14288215 Ssanders9816 said:


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In comment 14288195 Optimus-NY said:


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Period. This era of NFL Football is weak AF.



So why is Brady the only one that has 6 rings in this era?



Cuz he's playing in an era that is much weaker genius.




Welcome to hours ago genius. We are way past this and your answer has already been discussed at length.


what a jerk
Montana  
Possum : 2/5/2019 10:04 pm : link
There is no comparison between the competition Montana faced versus what Brady has had to face. When Montana played the NFC championship game was the Super Bowl. Montana had to contend with the 85 Bears and the great Giants and Redskins teams. If Brady was hit today like Montana was by the Giants, Burt and Marshall would have been suspended for weeks. If the Niners had played in the AFC during that era Montana would have gone to the Super Bowl every year.
RE: RE: No way. Do you see the offensive Ďweaponsí Brady has?  
Boy Cord : 2/5/2019 10:53 pm : link
In comment 14288477 bw in dc said:
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In comment 14288458 Boy Cord said:


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They donít compare to what Montana had with the exception of Moss for a brief period. Brady is the greatest of the past 50 years and most likely all time. I have no way to compare him to Starr or Unitas.



Tell me all the HoF players on that 9er offense when Montana won in Ď81.


Go ahead. Cherry pick one game. But, you actually highlight my point, Brady had eight Super Bowls with much, much less than Montana had in his other three.
Mike also said that if you want to  
Knineteen : 2/5/2019 10:59 pm : link
declare the best QB of all time, it would be difficult to declare Brady the winner because Montana was a better SuperBowl QB and Peyton Manning was a better regular season QB. How can you declare Brady the best of all time when he isn't the best of either the regular season or the post season?!
unbelievable revisionist history  
hassan : 2/5/2019 11:30 pm : link
by some old farts here.

the sb 49ers under montana beat a very ordinary bears team in 84 and 88 championship game, the la rams under jim everett and the 81 cowboys probably their stiffest comp. only one road game there.

the sb winning pats beat a 13-3 steelers team, a 15-1 steelers team, both in heinz field. a 13-3 chiefs team in arrowhead. Also peyton manning in 03. all better than any of the teams the winning 9ers faced.

the seahawks, eagles, both rams teams, and the falcons are better than the bengal teams and the weak broncos team (eagles and giants bothe beat them in mile high that year) the niners faced.

some of you are just too nostalgic.
RE: RE: RE: No way. Do you see the offensive Ďweaponsí Brady has?  
bw in dc : 2/5/2019 11:39 pm : link
In comment 14288482 Ssanders9816 said:
Quote:


It was the defense that carried them. Montana also won with some great defenses over the years. Something Brady has never really had


Iím not sure how old you are, but it appears you missed the Pats first three SB wins in Ď01, Ď03, and Ď04. Those teams were terrific defensive units and the offense was very balanced. Very run oriented. That Brady was not this Brady of the last ten years.
One more thing...  
bw in dc : 2/5/2019 11:43 pm : link
Name the great offensive players on the Chiefs when Montana led them to the Ď93 AFC Championship game.
Oh...  
bw in dc : 2/5/2019 11:46 pm : link
when Montanaís defense apparently carried him in 1981, he finished second in the MVP vote to Ken Anderson.
RE: RE: RE: If there had been a Threepeat  
Leg of Theismann : 2/6/2019 1:06 am : link
In comment 14288350 LauderdaleMatty said:
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In comment 14288319 bw in dc said:


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In comment 14288304 Vanzetti said:


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I'd go with Montana



If you are going to lose a game, it least Montana lost one of the greatest games ever played.

I've always wondered what the outcome of that game would have been if Montana didn't get broken into a million pieces by Marshall. One of the most brutal hits I've ever seen a QB take.

In today's game, that is a 15 yard penalty and automatic first down.



Didnít see this before I posted but they would suspend any player who hit a QB like that today for sure


Oh my god thank you guys!!!! Iíve said this before on this board (earlier this season) and someone said Marshall hit him in the back not the head so it would have been a legal hit in 2018. HELL NO. If that were a hit on Brady in 2018 they would have found a way to justify calling a 15 yarder, whether itís ďhit to the head or neck areaĒ, ďleading with helmetĒ, ďhit on a defenseless playerĒ, or ďlanding on the quarterbackĒ they would have called a penalty. I mean case and point look at the roughing the passer call against the chiefs in the afc championship game. They barely even touched Brady on that play and got 15 yards.
RE: RE: Rating QBs based on SBs is foolish  
UberAlias : 2/6/2019 6:17 am : link
In comment 14288501 eric2425ny said:
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In comment 14288455 UberAlias said:


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Completely discredits the importance of the other 52 guys, coaches, fit of scheme, etc.



This debate is crazy on many levels. To me, you almost canít compare the two because the game has changed so much in the last thirty years. If Montana played today his numbers would be insane. At the same time, Brady doesnít have Jerry Rice to throw to either. I think they are both great, but if I had a choice between both in their prime, Iíd take Montana every time.
Yep. There are many considerations. The era of game is one of them.

NFL convention is frankly riddled with contradictory plattitudes. We profess things like defense wins championships yet rate QBs, an offensive player with no impact on the defensive side of the ball, on the championship metric alone. We say things like football is the ultimate team game, yet award MVP to a quarterback nearly every year, and never anyone on defense side not named Taylor.

Montana and Brady are both great. They have amazing accomplishments. But IMO, nether were the best, only the most successful and the signal callers for the most superior franchises of their era. If Iím an expansion team starting from scratch and looking for a guy who cal elevate my undermanned team to early success, and one day to greatness, give me Marino, Elway, or Manning. Montana and Brady are right there with those guys, no doubt, however I see the latter as benefitting more from the superiority of the franchises they played for.
RE: RE: RE: Rating QBs based on SBs is foolish  
bw in dc : 2/6/2019 8:35 am : link
In comment 14288614 UberAlias said:
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Montana and Brady are both great. They have amazing accomplishments. But IMO, nether were the best, only the most successful and the signal callers for the most superior franchises of their era. If Iím an expansion team starting from scratch and looking for a guy who cal elevate my undermanned team to early success, and one day to greatness, give me Marino, Elway, or Manning. Montana and Brady are right there with those guys, no doubt, however I see the latter as benefitting more from the superiority of the franchises they played for.


Peyton had a great football mind. But he was very fortunate to play indoors for most of his career. Indoors fit his skill set. He didnít have a great arm and was nowhere near as good in less than ideal weather as Brady, Elway, Marino and even Montana (who played in windy Candlestick). I find it very hard to include him in these discussions.

Elway is the QB who gets lost in the sauce too much in these debates. Those first three Denver teams he took to the SB were very undermanned against the powerful NFC at the time. But just the way Elway put those teams on his back and literally carried them there was phenomenal. It was very fitting that he eventually got two SB wins because he kept that Denver franchise relevant for a long, long time. A tremendous talent.
With a lot of recent..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/6/2019 8:58 am : link
discussion about Kyler Murray's size and possibility of getting injured, Montana took two of the hardest clean hits I've ever seen on a QB. The one by Burt and the one by Marshall, both which knocked him out of playoff losses.

His playing weight was 6'2" 205, so he was slight, but he faced some monsterous defenses and took some devastating hits that still impact him today.

The most iconic call to me was Summerall's recap of the Marshall hit. About 5 minutes later they showed Montana dazed, sitting down and Summerall says "Word from the bench - EVERYTHING HURTS"
Yeah, tough to compare eras.  
Crispino : 2/6/2019 9:41 am : link
Brady canít get hit and the defenders arenít allowed to hit the receivers any more. On the other hand, Brady has done it with a revolving door of skill players who wouldnít get on the field on most of Montanaís team. He had HOF talent who turned 7 yard passes into 80 yard touchdowns. I would call both of them the greatest of their generation.
RE: RE: The 1980s NFC was absolutely brutal  
NINEster : 2/6/2019 12:52 pm : link
In comment 14288388 Ron from Ninerland said:
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In comment 14288338 Greg from LI said:


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Niners, Giants, Skins, the Bears with that defense for a few seasons, the Eagles and their defense. It was a war of attrition. Brady's never had to run a gauntlet like that.

Neither did the Niners. The NFC West back then was a bigger joke than the AFC East is now. I remember that era well. It seemed like the league couldn't do enough for the Niners. I can't remember them playing a regular season cold weather game. The one time they had to play Buffalo ( who were good then ) on the road it was scheduled for September. And as if the NFC West didn't stink enough, they moved the Cardinals into it.


Ummm, the Rams were good back then, always down to split the regular season contests with the Niners

As far as how they fared outside the NFC West, Rams did ok...the '89 wildcard in Philly followed by divisional at the Meadowlands....both wins, then went to SF and nearly took a 10-0 lead at Candlestick before folding.

And the Niners embarrassing the Bears 28-3 at frigid Soldier Field with supposedly no cold weather pedigree in the '88 NFC Championship Game puts that to rest.

The Saints and the Falcons weren't great, but the Cardinals did nothing either and the Eagles only did partially better postseason wise than those two now NFC South teams. The Niners in their "down" year in 1991 with a horrific 10-6 record still missed the playoffs to both the Saints & Falcons.
Montana won  
NINEster : 2/6/2019 1:29 pm : link
two Super Bowls while Rice was still in college.

Dwight Clark was a good WR, but his legend in football is more relegated to being a Niner legend (The Catch, retired jersey) than an NFL one (2 Pro Bowls in '81 and '82, and only one All Pro in 1982). Freddie Solomon another good WR that most people who watched football after the mid '80s would not recall (no All Pros, no Pro Bowls).

Craig arrived in '83, and had not become a true breakout star until '85, after the SB win against the Dolphins with his 1000/1000 rushing/receiving season.

Montana had Rice for 6 seasons, while Young had him for 8. Then he only had John Taylor for 5 seasons.

Brady had Moss for 4 seasons. Almost a wash at the #1 WR position, but you can give credit to Montana having a better duo.

Charle Young, Russ Francis, John Frank, and Brent Jones were all solid TEs, but none were Rob Gronkowski, whom Brady has now had for *9* seasons. Gronk is in discussion for possibly being the GOAT TE, while the others are known only by old school fans.

If you do the actual comparison, you will see Brady had some legit help as well. It's not like his entire career was the start of the 2013 season with Kembril Tompkins as his main WR....

On the defensive side of the ball, the only two HoFers Montana had were Lott for essentially his entire run, and then Haley since '86. Romanowski not HoF (and def a POS), but a baller. A lot of other very good solid players. Patriots had a good crew together of Bruschi, McGinnest, Seymour, Vrabel, Law.

Both teams had really good defenses, but nothing on the historic level of Bears, Giants of the '80s.

I think what gets lost in the discussion is that the two eras are hard to compare. You really needed solid players at all levels back then to win. There was no Belichicking a marginal roster to win a Bowl. No way that could happen. Wade Philipps was Denver DC for some years in the old days and could do nothing to stop the NFC teams, but has punked Brady a bunch of times.

Sonny Michel or James White would have been a liability on an '80s championship caliber contending team. The new era allows for so much more in the offensive game, you can get by with less talent than you could back then.

When it comes down to results and who you can trust Montana and Brady are very close to each other.
And as I said before, nobody talked Brady until he started racking in the #s. It took him longer to win the 4 SBs and break all the postseason passing records Montana set, and it was all silence until he did.

Montana: 14 TD, 7 INT in 7 conference championship games
Brady: 18 TD, 14 INT in 9 conference championship games

Montana: 11 TD, 0 INT in 4 SBs
Brady: 18 TD, 6 INT in 9 SBs



This is Bullshit. Montana is NOT better than Tom Brady...  
x meadowlander : 2/6/2019 2:09 pm : link
...shit, he wasn't the best QB of his own era - Glass Joe was damned lucky to play in the system he was in - ONE season of the 50+ sack NYC winters Simms endured would've finished him.

SYSTEMS do matter more than QB's, and Tom Brady is NOT my favorite QB, NOT the first I'd pick with 2 minutes left in a Super Bowl, yadda yadda...


But for fucks sake, what MORE does one have to do to be proclaimed best ever?

Tom Brady is FAR away the best QB in the history of the game, period. Pains me to say it.

Money talks, bullshit walks. Fucker has SIX Rings.
six rings in a lousy, watered down league of enforced mediocrity  
Greg from LI : 2/6/2019 2:20 pm : link
and defense being outlawed.
RE: six rings in a lousy, watered down league of enforced mediocrity  
x meadowlander : 2/6/2019 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14289088 Greg from LI said:
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and defense being outlawed.
I know.

This reminds me of an old, hilarious ESPN2 article on who the actual all-time Home Run Season leader is.

Omitting 'juiced' players, Expansion Seasons, and ALL the season's before they allowed Black players, ESPN2 declared Harmon Killerbrews 39 HR season in 1966 the best ever.

Brady plays in a fucking freezing nightmare of a stadium, has to play in Buffalo and New York every year.

The sun shone on Joe Montana. LA, New Orleans, Atlanta. Mmm. Domes and sunshine.

Put Joe Montana in a freezing ass Giants Stadium and what happens? 3 fucking points, that's what happens. >:) The replay board showing Jim Burt pasting him to the turf while LT runs his shitty pass into the endzone.

Montana was a fucking cream puff. MANY QB's from any era would have done as well or better.

Can't say the same for New England. I don't like Tom Brady. Not a little. But I can't take much away from him. He did not have it easy, not for 18 fucking years he didn't. Maybe a few of those seasons weren't too challenging - but any long term fan knows, Super Bowls don't grow on trees. Except for him.

Best ever.
I saw Montana. I saw Marino and Favre...  
x meadowlander : 2/6/2019 2:39 pm : link
...and Everett and Kenny Stabler and Terry Bradshaw.

I saw John Elway. THAT was the most skilled QB I ever saw. Bizarrely talented, played on far too many weak teams.

Troy Aikman was badass. He was tougher, better than Montana, IMO.

So you're telling me that Montana, who starred at Notre Dame  
Greg from LI : 2/6/2019 2:40 pm : link
playing games in freezing South Bend, wouldn't have been able to succeed in cold weather? Interesting take.

Tom Brady wouldn't have done shit in the Meadowlands in January 1987 either because that defense was the truth and would have beaten the piss outta him.
OK, now you're either legitimately deranged or pulling a GoTerps act  
Greg from LI : 2/6/2019 2:40 pm : link
Aikman was nowhere near Joe Montana. Go home, you're drunk.
Aikman...  
bw in dc : 2/6/2019 3:17 pm : link
LOFL.

Next to Joe Namath, there may not be a more overrated QB in Canton that Aikman.

Breaking 20+ TDs passes in his 12 year career with that surrounding talent speaks volumes.

Oh, and that 1.2/1 TD/INT ratio is sublime.
Both are overrated  
SHO'NUFF : 2/6/2019 3:48 pm : link
starting from scratch, I'm with DJM. Peyton all the way.
RE: RE: If Peyton Manning had  
bradshaw44 : 2/6/2019 4:43 pm : link
In comment 14288431 djm said:
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In comment 14288262 Giants86 said:


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Belichick, Lord knows how many they would have won.




I donít care how much shit I take, i will go to my grave saying Peyton was a better qb than Brady. He also had a winning record against Brady in the postseason. Little known fact.

Brady is the greatest winner of all time. Thatís an open n shit case. Heís got more pelts than anyone. But i donít think Brady transcends the sport like Peyton did. Just my take.



Forget about giving Peyton BB. If you gave Peyton the 49'ers/Bears/Skins/Giants defense from the 80's God only knows how many rings he would have. Peyton was the best QB ever. He won 2 Super Bowls with different teams. One basically without his throwing arm and just his whit's and finally a stout defense. Which lends credence to the idea if he had had a great defense in his prime he would have many more super bowl titles.
RE: Both are overrated  
Eman11 : 2/6/2019 5:38 pm : link
In comment 14289161 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
starting from scratch, I'm with DJM. Peyton all the way.


You're entitled to your Peyton opinion and not gonna argue that but if you think Montana is overrated, you must have never seen him play. The guy was near perfect in his SB's, clutch, and never rattled. Throw in three SB MVP's plus going 4-0 in those SB's, and I have no idea how you could think he's overrated.
having six rings today  
hassan : 2/6/2019 6:56 pm : link
in an era where teams are more mediocre and parity is driven is much harder than being on the juggernaut dominant team(s) of the past.

Was playing qb more physically demanding then? Yes.

Was stat accumulation harder then? Yes.

But those are different questions than winning rings. The argument he won six in a watered down league assumes the Pats are not affected by these same circumstances that water teams down. In fact they are. They have not had the chance to stack and retain talent like some of the teams in the 90s.

It means Belichick and Brady are truly more valuable relative to their peers. Other than 4-0 in sb games and his gaudy stats, I don't see any argument for Montana being superior to Brady. In particular given Brady's comeback against the Falcons which is probably the singular best sb performace ever.
I actually agree with him...  
Johnny5 : 2/6/2019 8:06 pm : link
... but it's just a stupid opinion that no one can ever prove is right or wrong... lol
RE: having six rings today  
bw in dc : 2/6/2019 8:51 pm : link
In comment 14289316 hassan said:
Quote:


It means Belichick and Brady are truly more valuable relative to their peers. Other than 4-0 in sb games and his gaudy stats, I don't see any argument for Montana being superior to Brady. In particular given Brady's comeback against the Falcons which is probably the singular best sb performace ever.


Classic...Ēother than being 4-0 and having guady statsĒ in the SB. Sure, why belabor such insignificant accomplishments.

RE: Aikman...  
crick n NC : 2/7/2019 8:19 am : link
In comment 14289136 bw in dc said:
Quote:
LOFL.

Next to Joe Namath, there may not be a more overrated QB in Canton that Aikman.

Breaking 20+ TDs passes in his 12 year career with that surrounding talent speaks volumes.

Oh, and that 1.2/1 TD/INT ratio is sublime.


It's fair to point out that Aikman was in an offense that did not emphasize the pass game. He was typically near the bottom in pass attempts. He was a gifted thrower and a smart qb who more than likely puts up much better stats in a different system in my opinion
RE: RE: Aikman...  
bw in dc : 2/7/2019 10:25 am : link
In comment 14289546 crick n NC said:
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In comment 14289136 bw in dc said:


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LOFL.

Next to Joe Namath, there may not be a more overrated QB in Canton that Aikman.

Breaking 20+ TDs passes in his 12 year career with that surrounding talent speaks volumes.

Oh, and that 1.2/1 TD/INT ratio is sublime.



It's fair to point out that Aikman was in an offense that did not emphasize the pass game. He was typically near the bottom in pass attempts. He was a gifted thrower and a smart qb who more than likely puts up much better stats in a different system in my opinion


Indeed, Aikman was a gifted thrower. And he played with a great team on both sides of the ball.

However, that gift still basically produced a 1:1 TD/INT ratio and he only broke 20TDs passes in a season once.

Aikman got his reward with 3 SB rings. But he shouldn't have been awarded a gold jacket because his production just didn't measure up.

bw  
hassan : 2/7/2019 10:33 am : link
who is suggesting itís a small accomplishment? itís a great one. itís also the only angle i can see making the case for Joe M.

itís certainly not based on statistical dominance relative to peers. Nor total super bowls. Or many other things that point in Bradyís favor.
Montana's Niners, Parcells Giants...  
x meadowlander : 2/7/2019 11:23 am : link
...Gibb's Redskins - prior to Plan B Free Agency, great teams benefitted from a system that made it much easier to keep core players.

I always believed that if the Free Agency changes that began in 1993 didn't shred the Cowboys roster, they likely would've had at least another Lombardi or two. (Thank God for Free Agency!) :)

That is what makes Belichek and Brady's reign all the more amazing. They managed all this while continually shedding their best players. Look no further than Nate Solder for an example. Their OL arguably IMPROVED since losing their best O Lineman.
RE: bw  
bw in dc : 2/7/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14289716 hassan said:
Quote:
who is suggesting itís a small accomplishment? itís a great one. itís also the only angle i can see making the case for Joe M.

itís certainly not based on statistical dominance relative to peers. Nor total super bowls. Or many other things that point in Bradyís favor.


Can you think of one big throw that Brady made that Montana couldn't make?

Because I can think of quite a few that Montana made - starting with "The Catch" - that Brady could only make in his imagination...
RE: Montana's Niners, Parcells Giants...  
Greg from LI : 2/7/2019 3:14 pm : link
In comment 14289816 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
Look no further than Nate Solder for an example. Their OL arguably IMPROVED since losing their best O Lineman.


Nate Solder is garbage, so, yeah.
RE: RE: bw  
ron mexico : 2/7/2019 5:03 pm : link
In comment 14290193 bw in dc said:
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In comment 14289716 hassan said:


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who is suggesting itís a small accomplishment? itís a great one. itís also the only angle i can see making the case for Joe M.

itís certainly not based on statistical dominance relative to peers. Nor total super bowls. Or many other things that point in Bradyís favor.



Can you think of one big throw that Brady made that Montana couldn't make?

Because I can think of quite a few that Montana made - starting with "The Catch" - that Brady could only make in his imagination...


I recently re watched that play and wondered what the big deal was. He rolled out and threw it high. I get it was in the last minuite of the SB, but it wasn't that difficult of a play. I'm sure Brady has a ton of throws more impressive than that.

I would put Eli's throw to manningham as a much more difficult throw.


RE: RE: RE: bw  
bw in dc : 2/7/2019 5:14 pm : link
In comment 14290333 ron mexico said:
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In comment 14290193 bw in dc said:


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In comment 14289716 hassan said:


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who is suggesting itís a small accomplishment? itís a great one. itís also the only angle i can see making the case for Joe M.

itís certainly not based on statistical dominance relative to peers. Nor total super bowls. Or many other things that point in Bradyís favor.



Can you think of one big throw that Brady made that Montana couldn't make?

Because I can think of quite a few that Montana made - starting with "The Catch" - that Brady could only make in his imagination...



I recently re watched that play and wondered what the big deal was. He rolled out and threw it high. I get it was in the last minuite of the SB, but it wasn't that difficult of a play. I'm sure Brady has a ton of throws more impressive than that.

I would put Eli's throw to manningham as a much more difficult throw.



Remind me of a play where Brady intentionally rolls to his right, gets up to full speed, stops on a dime, pump fakes to get two defenders off the ground, and then completes a pass fading away. Any pass.

The point is Brady is nowhere as athletic as Montana was and couldn't make that play in 100 tries.
Joe was more athletic than Brady  
ron mexico : 2/7/2019 5:26 pm : link
No argument there.

But the point is to win games and championships.

Brady has done enough of that to match Joes career and have another HOF career on top of that.

And for the record, I always considered Joe the best until Brady just won so much to not given it to him.
To add on to that  
ron mexico : 2/7/2019 5:31 pm : link
What makes Brady so great is not the flashy plays. It's the exact oppsite. It's his ability to execute flawlessly on the routine plays. And to do that for two decades is fucking remarkable.

For example his effectiveness with the QB sneak. I'm sure he has a lot less yards than more mobile QBs but probably has many more first downs converted.
Just not understanding why the answer...  
Johnny5 : 2/7/2019 5:51 pm : link
... has to be an absolute. You have a good argument either way, at the end of the day it's subjective. That said it's Montana... lol
Brady and Montana are my top 2  
giantstock : 2/7/2019 8:35 pm : link
I won;t debate either.

But what some Montana fans are saying here - I'd just like to remind them not getting to SUper Bowls counts against a guy too.

Further Montana takes hits - or his small body- it's not Brady's fault in tough physical games he is able to hang in while Montana is on his way to the hospital.

Physical defenses affected Montana too. The Gmen were 3-2 vs Montana in the playoffs. ANd Montana had the goat WR and Craig and at the time Walsh was considered a genius too. ANd Montana had a super OLINE for a time too and a better rb in Craig for a while.
RE: Brady and Montana are my top 2  
crick n NC : 2/7/2019 9:00 pm : link
In comment 14290416 giantstock said:
Quote:
I won;t debate either.

But what some Montana fans are saying here - I'd just like to remind them not getting to SUper Bowls counts against a guy too.

Further Montana takes hits - or his small body- it's not Brady's fault in tough physical games he is able to hang in while Montana is on his way to the hospital.

Physical defenses affected Montana too. The Gmen were 3-2 vs Montana in the playoffs. ANd Montana had the goat WR and Craig and at the time Walsh was considered a genius too. ANd Montana had a super OLINE for a time too and a better rb in Craig for a while.


I won't debate one against the other but let me tell you what I think...
If Brady had played in that era  
Greg from LI : 2/7/2019 9:23 pm : link
He would have taken a helluva lot more punishment over his career than he has. Who's to say he withstands it?
RE: Brady and Montana are my top 2  
Johnny5 : 2/7/2019 10:17 pm : link
In comment 14290416 giantstock said:
Quote:
I won;t debate either.

But what some Montana fans are saying here - I'd just like to remind them not getting to SUper Bowls counts against a guy too.

Further Montana takes hits - or his small body- it's not Brady's fault in tough physical games he is able to hang in while Montana is on his way to the hospital.

Physical defenses affected Montana too. The Gmen were 3-2 vs Montana in the playoffs. ANd Montana had the goat WR and Craig and at the time Walsh was considered a genius too. ANd Montana had a super OLINE for a time too and a better rb in Craig for a while.

Actually... They are in my top 4 but I put Elway at the top. He was the best QB I have ever seen in live action. He willed those early Bronco teams to those Super Bowls. I have Elway 1 and Montana 2... lol. But I see completely valid arguments for most of those that enter the discussion... lol
The most hilarious line in all this discussion  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/8/2019 2:52 am : link
belongs to Ninester, claiming that Brady's "four years with Moss" is pretty much a wash with Montana's "6 years with Rice."


Hardee har har, Ralph Cramden would have chuckled at that comparison.

During the six seasons Montana threw to Rice as his #1, Rice had about 450 receptions for over 7,500 yards. In the "4 seasons" Moss caught passes from Brady, he had almost 260 catches for almost 4,000 yards. Well, not really! One of Moss's 4 seasons with the Pats - 2008 - was the year Brady missed with his reconstructive knee surgery. Moss caught balls from Matt Cavanugh that year. So let's recalculate that to Moss caught less than 200 passes from Brady, over 2 years really for almost 3,000 yards. Not comparable at all to what Rice contributed to Montana's career



Niners Homer boy calls that "a wash". Sure. Gotcha! Not exactly!!!
If you are going..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/8/2019 8:12 am : link
to correct somebody with facts, using Matt Cavanaugh as the Pats QB when Randy Moss was there is pretty poor.
RE: RE: Brady and Montana are my top 2  
giantstock : 2/8/2019 10:34 pm : link
In comment 14290430 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 14290416 giantstock said:


Quote:


I won;t debate either.

But what some Montana fans are saying here - I'd just like to remind them not getting to SUper Bowls counts against a guy too.

Further Montana takes hits - or his small body- it's not Brady's fault in tough physical games he is able to hang in while Montana is on his way to the hospital.

Physical defenses affected Montana too. The Gmen were 3-2 vs Montana in the playoffs. ANd Montana had the goat WR and Craig and at the time Walsh was considered a genius too. ANd Montana had a super OLINE for a time too and a better rb in Craig for a while.



I won't debate one against the other but let me tell you what I think...



What????????????

I thought there was a lot more of chatter pro Montana while not as much Brady.


I'll throw in pro Montana-- he gets out of the pocket and is sensational. I remember vs the GMen 1st playoffs he made a huge play by scrambling up the sideline then he faked he was going out of bounds then ran up the field for a lot more. Crafty bastard!!!!!!!!!

With Brady you can bust him up the middle without worrying if he tried to break out. Not so with Montana.
For me personal opinion Montana and Brady are the best two  
giantstock : 2/8/2019 10:40 pm : link
That I've seen.
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