Mike said Montana is the best super bowl qb of all time. He also said these debates are ridiculous and that annoining one player over another player simply based on the amount of Super Bowls they may have won is crazy.
Brady pretty much has, and more than once. Not a knock, just a fact. The only game where Montana failed to score 20 plus he still led the niners down the field to win the game at the end.
He never said Montana was better than Brady as a whole.
But I will say that Montana faced a much tougher environment for a QB.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
But I will say that Montana faced a much tougher environment for a QB.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
Exactly. Montana also won with two different head coaches or was Walsh still there in 89? I wanna say no.
The qb is by far the most important position on the field but we’ve gotten crazy here lately. Win a big game or two and you’re the best thing since color tv lose one or two and you’re garbage. There’s so much that goes in to the team game of football. The qb debate has truly jumped the shark.
the fans who criticize Eli "fools". He said at the Superbowl he spoke to Justin Tuck and asked if New England winning makes those past Superbowls mean much more.
But I will say that Montana faced a much tougher environment for a QB.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
Exactly. Montana also won with two different head coaches or was Walsh still there in 89? I wanna say no.
The qb is by far the most important position on the field but we’ve gotten crazy here lately. Win a big game or two and you’re the best thing since color tv lose one or two and you’re garbage. There’s so much that goes in to the team game of football. The qb debate has truly jumped the shark.
Seifert took over in '89 and won with Montana that year, with Mike Holmgren as OC.
In my attempt to be most unbiased in my praise of Montana I direct people to look at his body of work with Kansas City, not as much San Francisco.
Him taking down the Oilers in the '93 playoffs (in Houston) was special. The MNF victory against Elway at Mile High.
The '89 comeback against the Eagles at The Vet. '88 against the Giants in the Meadowlands. The 35-7 comeback and OT win against Archie Manning in 1980.
Brady has done some great things, but I feel Montana has had many more signature special moments than him.
It's the only way to equalize the eras - big signature plays, games.
Montana had tremendous mobility in terms of dropbacks, scrambles and sidesteps, and to my knowledge there has only been *1* shotgun snap in Montana's career. That alone should give him the edge over Brady.
Joe had his 4th ring by his tenth season as a starter, which was a few years quicker than Brady. Brady went from not even being questionably better than Peyton Manning to now easily better than Manning and now better than Montana.
Nothing has changed except longevity. If the decision by Debartolo was made to trade Young to Kansas City in exchange for Derick Thomas, things could have turned out differently.
People outside the Niner fanbase are largely unaware that the reason why Haley was traded to Dallas was because he was completely uncontrollable in SF. And the reason for that was because he hated Young and was pissed Montana was traded.
Montana should have had 5, maybe 6 himself had it not been for LM.
Somehow the debates between Marino/Rodgers/Young, guys with no rings/1 ring have to be fair against guys with 4 rings, but now a guy with 6 is unquestionably better than someone with 4?
Doesn't make sense.
You want to make Brady >>>>> Montana.......?
Complete that bomb to Moss at the end of 42 and win that game. Could have retired the next day as the GOAT.
Those two losses to NYG in SBs are forgotten about in the legacy of Brady. Montana never would have lost both.
But I will say that Montana faced a much tougher environment for a QB.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
But was that because of Montana or a better cast of teammates?
Yes they did! This post got me thinking. I had to go look up Joe Montana's all time record vs NYG. I was kind of surprised to see that he was 8-4. Ill say this....I remember EVERY ONE of those 4 Giants victories as well as I remember any games!
RE: Joe Montana was the best QB I have EVER seen. Â
...three best QBs I have seen, in no particular order, are Brady, Peyton, Montana, and Marino.
Francessa keeps harping on Montana is 4-0, and was the MVP in three of the games.
But you can't escape the fact that Brady has played in nine of them.........and he's 6-3. Sure the record could be worse (or better), but that's the record. Nine SB appearances is beyond impressive.
The funniest thing yesterday was when a caller said "Mike, this is all strictly opinion, right?"...and Francesca proceeded to say it was based on fact....LOL
This all is really opinion/debate............
RE: RE: Joe Montana was the best QB I have EVER seen. Â
But I will say that Montana faced a much tougher environment for a QB.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
But was that because of Montana or a better cast of teammates?
You could say better cast of teammates. The AFC outside of the Bengals and Raiders didn't threaten in the Super Bowl back then. Once you got in, you tended to do better.
But beating the Redskins, Vikings, Giants, Bears in the '80s postseason was quite a bit harder than beating Peyton Manning or Baltimore.
However it should be noted that the #1 offense has played the #1 defense 5 times in SB history. The #1 defense won every single time except in SB 24 when SF beat DEN 55-10.
Wade Phillips was the Broncos DC in that game.
RE: RE: RE: Joe Montana was the best QB I have EVER seen. Â
So why is Brady the only one that has 6 rings in this era?
At least one of the rings was acquired purely by luck.
Seattle has a timeout, time and the ball on the 1, second down, and an absolute nightmarish RB waiting to pound the winning score home.
But no.
Brady DID bring back his team from a HUGE deficit to beat Atlanta. But damn ... does anyone look at that game more as a Brady comeback than as a Falcons meltdown? I know I don't ... although I do give SOME credit where due. But DAMN, Atlanta.
Are there other moments that don't necessarily paint Brady to be the savior of all-time? Guessing maybe so.
Clutch as hell. Unbelievable poise under pressure. Weak arm, played surrounded by HOFers and for one of the greatest NFL offensive minds in history. Greatest ever? Depends your criteria. I don't think he was better than Elway or Marino who were his peers. No way to compare him to QB's in the 60's & 70's and after he retired. It's a silly discussion. QB play is so dependent on the other 10 guys and the coaching. For what it's worth Peyton Manning was better than brady his peer and it isn't even a close call in my opinion. Give Brady Peyton's HC's and Peyton Belichick and get back to me.
I don’t see what the big deal is in what he’s saying. Brady hasn’t played like the best SB QB of all time. He’s been there the most but he hasn’t been the best player in many of those appearances.
One of my favorite players ever to watch. As mentioned, he played in a far more challenging era for QBs. It's laughable the hits he had to endure versus the witness protection program today's QBs get.
So I have no problem saying he's better than Brady. He was mobile, had a very underrated arm (best long ball thrower I have ever seen), was a great improviser, and was nearly impeccable in the SB.
He's had incredible signature moments in NFL history - "The Catch" and "The Drive".
Brady is great. But give me Montana every day of the week...
If you are going to lose a game, it least Montana lost one of the greatest games ever played.
I've always wondered what the outcome of that game would have been if Montana didn't get broken into a million pieces by Marshall. One of the most brutal hits I've ever seen a QB take.
In today's game, that is a 15 yard penalty and automatic first down.
RE: RE: Joe Montana was the best QB I have EVER seen. Â
Montana's downfall were injuries. I think he won 4 rings before Brady did in terms of seasons played by quite a bit. Brady had a run-dominant team for the first 3 wins I think and tons of luck along the way.
Montana had Walsh. Brady has Belichick. These things don't happen in a vacuum.
Belichick, Lord knows how many they would have won.
I've thought about that, but I don't think Peyton works as well.
His arm wasn't as good as Brady's outdoors. Brady is a great, great bad weather QB. He can really come through the ball and whip it through the wind. So I don't see the success at Gillette that Brady has had.
Peyton was made for the indoors. Indy was the ideal place for him.
Yes they did! This post got me thinking. I had to go look up Joe Montana's all time record vs NYG. I was kind of surprised to see that he was 8-4. Ill say this....I remember EVERY ONE of those 4 Giants victories as well as I remember any games!
Yes but in the playoffs he was 2-3 vs the NYG. I believe it's the only team he has a losing playoff record against.
Another interesting thing in those five games is the winner won the SB four of those years. The only winner who didn't was the 85 Giants, and it was no shame losing in Chicago to an all time great Defense IMO.
Niners, Giants, Skins, the Bears with that defense for a few seasons, the Eagles and their defense. It was a war of attrition. Brady's never had to run a gauntlet like that.
But I will say that Montana faced a much tougher environment for a QB.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
Never mind survivng that Leonard Marshall hit in the NFC championship. Back in the days when you could hit the QB. Today that’s a PF and a 4 game suspension. Brady got hit I the legend ad they changed the rule. That was as good a clean hit as Ive ever seen to this day.
And as good as Brady is its amazing how shitty his division is hear after year. Literally zero competion for over a decade. Hasn’t hurt his stats at all
If you are going to lose a game, it least Montana lost one of the greatest games ever played.
I've always wondered what the outcome of that game would have been if Montana didn't get broken into a million pieces by Marshall. One of the most brutal hits I've ever seen a QB take.
In today's game, that is a 15 yard penalty and automatic first down.
Didn’t see this before I posted but they would suspend any player who hit a QB like that today for sure
Niners, Giants, Skins, the Bears with that defense for a few seasons, the Eagles and their defense. It was a war of attrition. Brady's never had to run a gauntlet like that.
Neither did the Niners. The NFC West back then was a bigger joke than the AFC East is now. I remember that era well. It seemed like the league couldn't do enough for the Niners. I can't remember them playing a regular season cold weather game. The one time they had to play Buffalo ( who were good then ) on the road it was scheduled for September. And as if the NFC West didn't stink enough, they moved the Cardinals into it.
First of all Poster can't even spell Mike's last name correctly. Second Its hard to argue someone going 4-0 in Super Bowl is not the best Super Bowl QB. In any case it is a difficult point given different Era. However one reason I think Brady's record needs to be discounted is the fact he plays in AFC East so it guarantees winning division every year and pretty good shot at getting home field and bye every year. So you only need to win 2 games to get to the Super Bowl period. Also sorry but losing the Super Bowl in a season you went 18-0 is damning.
Niners, Giants, Skins, the Bears with that defense for a few seasons, the Eagles and their defense. It was a war of attrition. Brady's never had to run a gauntlet like that.
Neither did the Niners. The NFC West back then was a bigger joke than the AFC East is now. I remember that era well. It seemed like the league couldn't do enough for the Niners. I can't remember them playing a regular season cold weather game. The one time they had to play Buffalo ( who were good then ) on the road it was scheduled for September. And as if the NFC West didn't stink enough, they moved the Cardinals into it.
The Rams won 10 or > games 5X in the '80s. And the Saints were actually good in the late '80s.
Niners, Giants, Skins, the Bears with that defense for a few seasons, the Eagles and their defense. It was a war of attrition. Brady's never had to run a gauntlet like that.
- From 84-88, the Bears were great and only won 1 Super Bowl. In the other 4 seasons, they lost twice in the playoffs to Montana and twice to Joe Gibbs' teams.
- From 84-90, the Giants were great and their 3 playoff losses were to the '84 Champion Niners, '85 Champion Bears, and the Flipper Anderson game.
- From 81-90, the Niners were great and 4 of their 5 playoff losses were to Parcells' Giants (3 times!) and once to Joe Gibbs.
Tom Brady is obviously great, but he never faced opposing teams or coaches like this in his conference... heck, not even in the Super Bowl. Montana had to battle through this AND won playoff games after he left San Fran.
It is not about stats or anything. I just remember that guy throwing while in the air, putting touch on the ball and weaving it through 3-4 defenders.
There’s you problem. You are using more than stats. Which is correct.
I’m sorry but without Bill B Brady isn’t getting 9 shots. Which is the number. He also certainly wasn’t the reason they won Sunday
Belichick, Lord knows how many they would have won.
I don’t care how much shit I take, i will go to my grave saying Peyton was a better qb than Brady. He also had a winning record against Brady in the postseason. Little known fact.
Brady is the greatest winner of all time. That’s an open n shit case. He’s got more pelts than anyone. But i don’t think Brady transcends the sport like Peyton did. Just my take.
They don’t compare to what Montana had with the exception of Moss for a brief period. Brady is the greatest of the past 50 years and most likely all time. I have no way to compare him to Starr or Unitas.
He never said Montana was better than Brady as a whole.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
Exactly. Montana also won with two different head coaches or was Walsh still there in 89? I wanna say no.
The qb is by far the most important position on the field but we’ve gotten crazy here lately. Win a big game or two and you’re the best thing since color tv lose one or two and you’re garbage. There’s so much that goes in to the team game of football. The qb debate has truly jumped the shark.
Yep. Feels like someone making an proclamation to promote talk radio and then fighting with people about his intent for 4 hours. How edgy.
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But I will say that Montana faced a much tougher environment for a QB.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
Exactly. Montana also won with two different head coaches or was Walsh still there in 89? I wanna say no.
The qb is by far the most important position on the field but we’ve gotten crazy here lately. Win a big game or two and you’re the best thing since color tv lose one or two and you’re garbage. There’s so much that goes in to the team game of football. The qb debate has truly jumped the shark.
Seifert took over in '89 and won with Montana that year, with Mike Holmgren as OC.
In my attempt to be most unbiased in my praise of Montana I direct people to look at his body of work with Kansas City, not as much San Francisco.
Him taking down the Oilers in the '93 playoffs (in Houston) was special. The MNF victory against Elway at Mile High.
The '89 comeback against the Eagles at The Vet. '88 against the Giants in the Meadowlands. The 35-7 comeback and OT win against Archie Manning in 1980.
Brady has done some great things, but I feel Montana has had many more signature special moments than him.
It's the only way to equalize the eras - big signature plays, games.
Montana had tremendous mobility in terms of dropbacks, scrambles and sidesteps, and to my knowledge there has only been *1* shotgun snap in Montana's career. That alone should give him the edge over Brady.
Joe had his 4th ring by his tenth season as a starter, which was a few years quicker than Brady. Brady went from not even being questionably better than Peyton Manning to now easily better than Manning and now better than Montana.
Nothing has changed except longevity. If the decision by Debartolo was made to trade Young to Kansas City in exchange for Derick Thomas, things could have turned out differently.
People outside the Niner fanbase are largely unaware that the reason why Haley was traded to Dallas was because he was completely uncontrollable in SF. And the reason for that was because he hated Young and was pissed Montana was traded.
Montana should have had 5, maybe 6 himself had it not been for LM.
Somehow the debates between Marino/Rodgers/Young, guys with no rings/1 ring have to be fair against guys with 4 rings, but now a guy with 6 is unquestionably better than someone with 4?
Doesn't make sense.
You want to make Brady >>>>> Montana.......?
Complete that bomb to Moss at the end of 42 and win that game. Could have retired the next day as the GOAT.
Those two losses to NYG in SBs are forgotten about in the legacy of Brady. Montana never would have lost both.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
But was that because of Montana or a better cast of teammates?
Yes they did! This post got me thinking. I had to go look up Joe Montana's all time record vs NYG. I was kind of surprised to see that he was 8-4. Ill say this....I remember EVERY ONE of those 4 Giants victories as well as I remember any games!
So why is Brady the only one that has 6 rings in this era?
Francessa keeps harping on Montana is 4-0, and was the MVP in three of the games.
But you can't escape the fact that Brady has played in nine of them.........and he's 6-3. Sure the record could be worse (or better), but that's the record. Nine SB appearances is beyond impressive.
The funniest thing yesterday was when a caller said "Mike, this is all strictly opinion, right?"...and Francesca proceeded to say it was based on fact....LOL
This all is really opinion/debate............
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Period. This era of NFL Football is weak AF.
So why is Brady the only one that has 6 rings in this era?
Belichick.
Just slightly worse defensive coaching and the Rams probably win this Super Bowl.
This was as much a Belichick postseason success as any I've ever seen.
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But I will say that Montana faced a much tougher environment for a QB.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
But was that because of Montana or a better cast of teammates?
You could say better cast of teammates. The AFC outside of the Bengals and Raiders didn't threaten in the Super Bowl back then. Once you got in, you tended to do better.
But beating the Redskins, Vikings, Giants, Bears in the '80s postseason was quite a bit harder than beating Peyton Manning or Baltimore.
However it should be noted that the #1 offense has played the #1 defense 5 times in SB history. The #1 defense won every single time except in SB 24 when SF beat DEN 55-10.
Wade Phillips was the Broncos DC in that game.
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In comment 14288195 Optimus-NY said:
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Period. This era of NFL Football is weak AF.
So why is Brady the only one that has 6 rings in this era?
Belichick.
Just slightly worse defensive coaching and the Rams probably win this Super Bowl.
This was as much a Belichick postseason success as any I've ever seen.
OK and if Belichick does a better job last year they win easy when Brady was LIGHTS OUT. See how that works?
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Period. This era of NFL Football is weak AF.
So why is Brady the only one that has 6 rings in this era?
At least one of the rings was acquired purely by luck.
Seattle has a timeout, time and the ball on the 1, second down, and an absolute nightmarish RB waiting to pound the winning score home.
But no.
Brady DID bring back his team from a HUGE deficit to beat Atlanta. But damn ... does anyone look at that game more as a Brady comeback than as a Falcons meltdown? I know I don't ... although I do give SOME credit where due. But DAMN, Atlanta.
Are there other moments that don't necessarily paint Brady to be the savior of all-time? Guessing maybe so.
So I have no problem saying he's better than Brady. He was mobile, had a very underrated arm (best long ball thrower I have ever seen), was a great improviser, and was nearly impeccable in the SB.
He's had incredible signature moments in NFL history - "The Catch" and "The Drive".
Brady is great. But give me Montana every day of the week...
If you are going to lose a game, it least Montana lost one of the greatest games ever played.
I've always wondered what the outcome of that game would have been if Montana didn't get broken into a million pieces by Marshall. One of the most brutal hits I've ever seen a QB take.
In today's game, that is a 15 yard penalty and automatic first down.
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Period. This era of NFL Football is weak AF.
So why is Brady the only one that has 6 rings in this era?
Cuz he's playing in an era that is much weaker genius.
Montana had Walsh. Brady has Belichick. These things don't happen in a vacuum.
I've thought about that, but I don't think Peyton works as well.
His arm wasn't as good as Brady's outdoors. Brady is a great, great bad weather QB. He can really come through the ball and whip it through the wind. So I don't see the success at Gillette that Brady has had.
Peyton was made for the indoors. Indy was the ideal place for him.
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our boys hit them hard...
Yes they did! This post got me thinking. I had to go look up Joe Montana's all time record vs NYG. I was kind of surprised to see that he was 8-4. Ill say this....I remember EVERY ONE of those 4 Giants victories as well as I remember any games!
Yes but in the playoffs he was 2-3 vs the NYG. I believe it's the only team he has a losing playoff record against.
Another interesting thing in those five games is the winner won the SB four of those years. The only winner who didn't was the 85 Giants, and it was no shame losing in Chicago to an all time great Defense IMO.
Something else, too - Brady has won a bunch of close games in Super Bowls. 6 games by a total of 29 points. Montana won four by a total of 76 points. Dominant.
Never mind survivng that Leonard Marshall hit in the NFC championship. Back in the days when you could hit the QB. Today that’s a PF and a 4 game suspension. Brady got hit I the legend ad they changed the rule. That was as good a clean hit as Ive ever seen to this day.
And as good as Brady is its amazing how shitty his division is hear after year. Literally zero competion for over a decade. Hasn’t hurt his stats at all
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In comment 14288195 Optimus-NY said:
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Period. This era of NFL Football is weak AF.
So why is Brady the only one that has 6 rings in this era?
Cuz he's playing in an era that is much weaker genius.
Welcome to hours ago genius. We are way past this and your answer has already been discussed at length.
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I'd go with Montana
If you are going to lose a game, it least Montana lost one of the greatest games ever played.
I've always wondered what the outcome of that game would have been if Montana didn't get broken into a million pieces by Marshall. One of the most brutal hits I've ever seen a QB take.
In today's game, that is a 15 yard penalty and automatic first down.
Didn’t see this before I posted but they would suspend any player who hit a QB like that today for sure
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Niners, Giants, Skins, the Bears with that defense for a few seasons, the Eagles and their defense. It was a war of attrition. Brady's never had to run a gauntlet like that.
Neither did the Niners. The NFC West back then was a bigger joke than the AFC East is now. I remember that era well. It seemed like the league couldn't do enough for the Niners. I can't remember them playing a regular season cold weather game. The one time they had to play Buffalo ( who were good then ) on the road it was scheduled for September. And as if the NFC West didn't stink enough, they moved the Cardinals into it.
The Rams won 10 or > games 5X in the '80s. And the Saints were actually good in the late '80s.
The Falcons were indeed bad.
Swing and a miss.
It is not about stats or anything. I just remember that guy throwing while in the air, putting touch on the ball and weaving it through 3-4 defenders.
It'd be hard to take anyone over peak Montana.
And BB...the GOAT of HC.
A perfect marriage.
- From 84-88, the Bears were great and only won 1 Super Bowl. In the other 4 seasons, they lost twice in the playoffs to Montana and twice to Joe Gibbs' teams.
- From 84-90, the Giants were great and their 3 playoff losses were to the '84 Champion Niners, '85 Champion Bears, and the Flipper Anderson game.
- From 81-90, the Niners were great and 4 of their 5 playoff losses were to Parcells' Giants (3 times!) and once to Joe Gibbs.
Tom Brady is obviously great, but he never faced opposing teams or coaches like this in his conference... heck, not even in the Super Bowl. Montana had to battle through this AND won playoff games after he left San Fran.
Damn right!
It is not about stats or anything. I just remember that guy throwing while in the air, putting touch on the ball and weaving it through 3-4 defenders.
There’s you problem. You are using more than stats. Which is correct.
I’m sorry but without Bill B Brady isn’t getting 9 shots. Which is the number. He also certainly wasn’t the reason they won Sunday
I don’t care how much shit I take, i will go to my grave saying Peyton was a better qb than Brady. He also had a winning record against Brady in the postseason. Little known fact.
Brady is the greatest winner of all time. That’s an open n shit case. He’s got more pelts than anyone. But i don’t think Brady transcends the sport like Peyton did. Just my take.