NFT: Universal Designated Hitter being discussed for 2019 Season

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during a quiet time on the sports calendar.

well played Brodie.

What if the guy goes out and is just not pitching well and it’s obvious immediately? Three batters can do a lot of damage.

In comment 14288555 Oscar said:

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What if the guy goes out and is just not pitching well and it’s obvious immediately? Three batters can do a lot of damage.

Agreed. Way too drastic. Long overdue though with the universal DH.

and go back to playing real baseball.

Weren't there racial discussions of implementing 1-1 counts and the like?

Adding a DH to the NL is only going to further increase pitch counts.

In comment 14288570 Knineteen said:

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Weren't there racial discussions of implementing 1-1 counts and the like? Adding a DH to the NL is only going to further increase pitch counts.

Never going to happen. It will either stay like it is or the NL adopts the DH. The players union would never agree to eliminating the DH.

call the DH rule on a game by game basis. Maximize good hitting pitchers at home, minimize opponent's good hitting pitchers becomes a managerial decision.

That way every team gets to play both with and without the DH rule throughout the year.

but doing it for 2019 seems too close to the season. NL teams have gone about their offseason plans not expecting to need a DH. Do it for 2020, though!

In comment 14288600 Mike from SI said:

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but doing it for 2019 seems too close to the season. NL teams have gone about their offseason plans not expecting to need a DH. Do it for 2020, though!

Agreed - why make the change this late? Rosters are close to set already? Would seem to hurt the NL...

In comment 14288593 aquidneck said:

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call the DH rule on a game by game basis. Maximize good hitting pitchers at home, minimize opponent's good hitting pitchers becomes a managerial decision. That way every team gets to play both with and without the DH rule throughout the year.

That is a great idea.

I think if the NL gets the DL it may be the final straw with baseball for me. After 50 plus years as an avid fan I'll probably just watch it occasionally at that point.

In comment 14288606 steve in ky said:

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I think if the NL gets the DL it may be the final straw with baseball for me. After 50 plus years as an avid fan I'll probably just watch it occasionally at that point.

Same. I can't stand AL baseball for the most part. I love the strategy with the NL.

In comment 14288613 dank41 said:

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In comment 14288606 steve in ky said: Quote: I think if the NL gets the DL it may be the final straw with baseball for me. After 50 plus years as an avid fan I'll probably just watch it occasionally at that point. Same. I can't stand AL baseball for the most part. I love the strategy with the NL.

You love the strategy of watching pitchers strikeout and get hurt running the bases.
Been a baseball fan for just under 60 years and never want to see a pitcher hit again.

In comment 14288593 aquidneck said:

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call the DH rule on a game by game basis. Maximize good hitting pitchers at home, minimize opponent's good hitting pitchers becomes a managerial decision. That way every team gets to play both with and without the DH rule throughout the year.

That. Is a BRILLIANT idea!!!!!
Seriously brilliant.
It takes away the argument of “the DH will ruin the strategic moves thatpitchers hitting brings to the game” by having the manager make a STRATEGIC decision before the game starts. Anything that allows more second guessing is great for the game IMO.
Seriously,love this idea - coming from a guy who HATES the idea of the DH

Think about debates come playoff time. Also why would baseball do this now? They have players threatening a strike, why not use this as a trump card to sate their fat slugger delegation who may get a couple extra million. Trading jay bruce just became a dumb move if this is in fact true

but I never get the argument about people not wanting to watch pitchers hit, like they're some fragile organism who when you put a bat in their hand become a piece of glass.

but on the other hand, like to watch beer league softball players who mostly can't play the field, which is more than 50% of the game, bat 4 times a game.

Most of these pitchers were at one time among the best hitters on their team, and probably at least until college took regular at-bats. so between 18 and 20-something they became allergic to batting. Sure, they're not great at it since it's not what gets them to the big leagues, but they're not great at it mostly because the major leagues tells them they don't need to be.

Bottom line I think it should be consistent across all of mlb, for fairness in interleague play and world series, but if it's pitchers always hit or DH doesn't matter to me.

In comment 14288566 Trainmaster said:

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and go back to playing real baseball.

Where pitchers strike out regularly to end innings with runners on- or get hurt running the bases?

No thanks.

"Real" baseball is where you put the best hitters on your team in the lineup and have your pitcher focus on what he does best without wasting time and energy on the bases or at the plate.

In comment 14288566 Trainmaster said:

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and go back to playing real baseball.

LOL

In comment 14288602 Dan in the Springs said:

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In comment 14288600 Mike from SI said: Quote: but doing it for 2019 seems too close to the season. NL teams have gone about their offseason plans not expecting to need a DH. Do it for 2020, though! Agreed - why make the change this late? Rosters are close to set already? Would seem to hurt the NL...

There are about 100 FAs right now...

just another piece of the conspiracy to validate the DH position before Big Papi becomes eligible for the Hall:)

In comment 14288600 Mike from SI said:

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but doing it for 2019 seems too close to the season. NL teams have gone about their offseason plans not expecting to need a DH. Do it for 2020, though!

There are about 100 FA out there who will sign for next to nothing at this point.

Of course, you could always go get a Bryce Harper or Manny Machado and move someone already in the spot to DH.

You could also add Marwin Gonzalez, Moustakas, Melky Cabrera, Dietrich, Duda, Gattis, CarGo, Harrison, Holliday, Adam Jones or any number of FA still out there- most for a decent price.

In comment 14288593 aquidneck said:

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call the DH rule on a game by game basis. Maximize good hitting pitchers at home, minimize opponent's good hitting pitchers becomes a managerial decision. That way every team gets to play both with and without the DH rule throughout the year.

This is maybe the worst idea in this thread.

Think about the Yanks for a minute- EVERY team would force Sevy to hit, as well as CC- just to wear them out and get them out of the game faster.

Fans aren't at the game to watch Sevy swing and miss 3 times- they want to see Sevy blow it by guys. Wear him down on those 100 degree summer days so he's gone by the 4th? Brilliant. I'm sure that's EXACTLY what fans are paying through the nose to go to games to see.

Where do people find these ridiculous ideas and then pass them off as the best thing since sliced bread?

In comment 14288555 Oscar said:

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What if the guy goes out and is just not pitching well and it’s obvious immediately? Three batters can do a lot of damage.

Agree, heard it this morning before reading it here and I just started laughing in my car. Just a horrible idea. There are other ways to speed up a game.

but took another look at it a few years ago and have changed my mind. Watching pitchers hit is rarely ever exciting. I'd rather see better hitters face the pitchers. It's better action and more entertaining.

I'm happy baseball is finally waking up on this.

In comment 14288642 pjcas18 said:

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Most of these pitchers were at one time among the best hitters on their team, and probably at least until college took regular at-bats. so between 18 and 20-something they became allergic to batting. Sure, they're not great at it since it's not what gets them to the big leagues, but they're not great at it mostly because the major leagues tells them they don't need to be.

Light-hitting middle infielders were once good hitters at lower levels too. So what? That doesn't actually mean anything. Bumgarner is the guy anti-DH types love to cite as a "good hitting pitcher"...and his career triple slash is .183/.228/.313. Sabathia is another one - his is .212/.225/.313. Know what Mario Mendoza's was? .212/.245/.262. So the best hitting pitchers are maybe slightly more potent with the bat than the guy whose name is synonymous with hitting futility.

Why not have the DH in both leagues AND the pitcher hit? (in effect, have a 10 man lineup). You satisfy the Players Union, and you still have the strategy the NL fans love.

is literally one league in the entire universe that doesn't use the DH. That's including Little League, Babe Ruth, American Legion, Wood Bat Leagues, NCAA, MiLB and every country that plays baseball outside of the United States.

Want to know why pitchers can't really hit? Well, you see, because they're not required to at any point in their lives before they play in the National League of MLB.

It's so stupid and obvious it hurts. Make the DH universal. If you have an Ohtani that can do both, more power to you. You can save a roster spot. This idea that every other organized league in the world should reverse course to send baseball back to the dead-ball era is just absolutely bonkers. I can't believe there are real, actual baseball fans who have somehow tricked themselves into thinking that watching pitchers hit to a .115/.146/.150 combined slash line is somehow good baseball. God help us all.
Link - ( New Window )

But, for accuracy's sake, there is one other league besides the NL where pitchers hit - the NPB's Central League.

In comment 14288686 rich in DC said:

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In comment 14288593 aquidneck said: Quote: call the DH rule on a game by game basis. Maximize good hitting pitchers at home, minimize opponent's good hitting pitchers becomes a managerial decision. That way every team gets to play both with and without the DH rule throughout the year. This is maybe the worst idea in this thread. Think about the Yanks for a minute- EVERY team would force Sevy to hit, as well as CC- just to wear them out and get them out of the game faster. Fans aren't at the game to watch Sevy swing and miss 3 times- they want to see Sevy blow it by guys. Wear him down on those 100 degree summer days so he's gone by the 4th? Brilliant. I'm sure that's EXACTLY what fans are paying through the nose to go to games to see. Where do people find these ridiculous ideas and then pass them off as the best thing since sliced bread?

Well I think it's a terrific idea. If I'm the opposing manager I want Sevy out of the game. Make him hit.

Strategy.

In comment 14288686 rich in DC said:

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In comment 14288593 aquidneck said: Quote: call the DH rule on a game by game basis. Maximize good hitting pitchers at home, minimize opponent's good hitting pitchers becomes a managerial decision. That way every team gets to play both with and without the DH rule throughout the year. This is maybe the worst idea in this thread. Think about the Yanks for a minute- EVERY team would force Sevy to hit, as well as CC- just to wear them out and get them out of the game faster. Fans aren't at the game to watch Sevy swing and miss 3 times- they want to see Sevy blow it by guys. Wear him down on those 100 degree summer days so he's gone by the 4th? Brilliant. I'm sure that's EXACTLY what fans are paying through the nose to go to games to see. Where do people find these ridiculous ideas and then pass them off as the best thing since sliced bread?

With all due respect, why would Severino be burnt out by the 4th inning?

In comment 14288716 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 14288642 pjcas18 said: Quote: Most of these pitchers were at one time among the best hitters on their team, and probably at least until college took regular at-bats. so between 18 and 20-something they became allergic to batting. Sure, they're not great at it since it's not what gets them to the big leagues, but they're not great at it mostly because the major leagues tells them they don't need to be. Light-hitting middle infielders were once good hitters at lower levels too. So what? That doesn't actually mean anything. Bumgarner is the guy anti-DH types love to cite as a "good hitting pitcher"...and his career triple slash is .183/.228/.313. Sabathia is another one - his is .212/.225/.313. Know what Mario Mendoza's was? .212/.245/.262. So the best hitting pitchers are maybe slightly more potent with the bat than the guy whose name is synonymous with hitting futility.

my point was that pitchers are bad hitters because they can be bad hitters. they're expected to be once they become full time pitchers.

I already said I don't care as much about this as some people.

I just think it should be consistent. either way, don't care.

And the arguments people make are silly. "why so we can watch pitchers strike out or get hurt".

but you prefer to watch a guy hit who in most cases cannot field a baseball or throw a baseball or if he does it he's shitty at it.

It's the way people are conditioned IMO, not logic.

not wanting pitchers batting, but wanting players who only bat is sort of the same thing.

implications of the DH aren't that numerous though. So you might have a pitcher out an inning before he was going to be, or you might let your starter go another batter knowing he'll be coming to the plate the next inning.
I almost think the argument about strategy is used because it is really the only positive for keeping the DH, other than nostalgia.

You know what else is nostalgic? Eating Cracker Jack at a game, yet after you get past the age of 10, that stuff tastes like shit.

two dumb leagues! :)

So presumably he works at it....and yet he still sucks at it.

The Babe Ruths and Shohei Ohtanis of the world are exceedingly rare because having the kind of talent to both pitch well and hit well is exceedingly rare, not because pitchers don't have an incentive to work on hitting. Hell, go back through history long before the DH, and even then most pitchers were useless with a bat in their hands.

Honestly, I wouldn't even care if you just made the lineup the eight position players and eliminated the ninth spot, so long as we don't have to watch pitchers hitting. That's never happening, though.

in the offseason for a move like this. 2020 at the earliest.

In comment 14288717 JohnF said:

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Why not have the DH in both leagues AND the pitcher hit? (in effect, have a 10 man lineup). You satisfy the Players Union, and you still have the strategy the NL fans love.

Because the fans and the TV viewers want to see guys like Mike Trout bat more often, not less often.

Its a good, relatively pure game that has past it's prime, sort of like jai-lai and jousting

But the owners are scrambling to make silly changes that they somehow think are going to changes the fortunes of the game.....

no more basically free outs. overdue, in my opinion, but jamming it for 2019 seems a little hasty at this point.

In comment 14288758 bigbluehoya said:

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no more basically free outs. overdue, in my opinion, but jamming it for 2019 seems a little hasty at this point.

If the owners werent colluding in plain sight and instead signing hitters this wouldnt be a discussion. Union is trying to get players signed.

in little league and American Legion? Granted its been 25-30 years since I played... but is that a recent change?

In comment 14288824 MetsAreBack said:

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in little league and American Legion? Granted its been 25-30 years since I played... but is that a recent change?

Lol, they didn’t.

I still think the change that makes the most sense is to make all interleague games DH games regardless of park. Even if the NL team is home, there should be a DH for that set.

This way, AL teams never have to play without the DH at any point during the season, and NL fans who prefer the pitcher hitting can still have that against all NL opponents.

and Legion ball absolutely do use the DH. I've coached both for a decade. Just because the leagues use the DH doesn't mean that the coaches HAVE to use the DH.

Kids that young, usually the pitcher is still a good hitter. It starts to drag and change significantly at the HS level when kids start specializing in pitching. I've coached HS ball for the past 12 years and the pitchers generally aren't good hitters by the time they get to us as freshman or sophomores. They start specialization in 6th or 7th grade when they move to the "big" field and that's usually the end of their ability to hit.

we had one DH and it could be for any position, not just the pitcher. The same rules applied otherwise.

In comment 14288837 arcarsenal said:

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I still think the change that makes the most sense is to make all interleague games DH games regardless of park. Even if the NL team is home, there should be a DH for that set. This way, AL teams never have to play without the DH at any point during the season, and NL fans who prefer the pitcher hitting can still have that against all NL opponents.

I disagree. You still have the World Series issue and now you've also made it so 20 games instead of 10 for a NL team requires a DH plus if it gets to world series. So, at that point, NL teams need to start more seriously thinking about paying a "DH" a big salary.

Just make a decision once and for all - personally, i think DH is fine across both leagues.. but also definitely want some of these pace of play measures enforced.

Red Sox-Yankees games take 4+ hours and most playoff games take 4+ hours and that's just unacceptable.

YAJ...DH doesn't have to be for the pitcher.

There's no World Series issue - there would just be a DH for all of the games.

I'd prefer to just make it all universal, but there are still NL fans stuck in "tradition" who don't want to give up on the pitcher hitting and it seems like a fair amount of them at that. So, this is one of the only compromises that make sense to me if people are still unwilling to go with a DH across all leagues.

Most AL teams don't have guys who can't play the field at all a-la Ortiz, anyway. I don't think it would be a huge issue for NL teams. They have to use a DH for any game they play in AL parks now as it is. Adding ~10 games where they'd need a DH in a 162 game season seems fairly insignificant to me.

Something like electing to use it or not use it on a game by game basis is just too much and would never happen.

In comment 14288735 aquidneck said:

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In comment 14288686 rich in DC said: Quote: In comment 14288593 aquidneck said: Quote: call the DH rule on a game by game basis. Maximize good hitting pitchers at home, minimize opponent's good hitting pitchers becomes a managerial decision. That way every team gets to play both with and without the DH rule throughout the year. This is maybe the worst idea in this thread. Think about the Yanks for a minute- EVERY team would force Sevy to hit, as well as CC- just to wear them out and get them out of the game faster. Fans aren't at the game to watch Sevy swing and miss 3 times- they want to see Sevy blow it by guys. Wear him down on those 100 degree summer days so he's gone by the 4th? Brilliant. I'm sure that's EXACTLY what fans are paying through the nose to go to games to see. Where do people find these ridiculous ideas and then pass them off as the best thing since sliced bread? Well I think it's a terrific idea. If I'm the opposing manager I want Sevy out of the game. Make him hit. Strategy.

And more pitching changes by having to use 5 relievers to finish the game only makes it longer- yeah, games that go past 11 PM- YAY fans! But STRATEGY!!!!