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Jamon Brown - keep at what price?

BlueLou'sBack : 2/6/2019 2:07 pm
Here's a quote from Pro Football Rumors probably a garbage site but the quote from Matt Lombardy seems accurate.

"Guard Jamon Brown has played well for the Giants since being claimed off waivers from the Rams earlier this year, but New York hasnít tried to negotiate a new contract with him yet, a source told Matt Lombardo of NJ.com. Brown is set to be a free agent this offseason, and could land a decent sized payday. Heís been a solid starter in his career, but was waived by the Rams shortly after returning from a two game suspension."

Have no idea why this guy thinks Brown "could land a decent sized payday." His PFF grades for 2017 as the starting RG for the Rams and for 2018 are below average and he was considered the Rams' weak link in their starting OL. Maybe there were numerous claims for him after being cut?

Gettleman is playing a waiting game, it seems to me. He's letting Brown discover his presumably low market value, then will offer him a tick more to stay a Giant. Clearly he's in no rush to commit to Brown or talks with Brown's agent would have commenced.

I'm guessing he's going to get a prove it type deal at best, for 2 mil per year average, 2 years, with bonuses to make more, and easily jettisoned after 2019 if he doesn't meet expectations.

Looked but didn't find other projections for his possible next contract.
Speculation about Jamon - ( New Window )
Your supposition that Jamon was the weak link on the Rams  
Diver_Down : 2/6/2019 2:14 pm : link
is not true. He was the starter. Ended up serving a 2 game suspension that caused him to be sidelined. Their OL was working just fine so he never regained his starter role. The Rams ended up trading for Fowler and needed to create a roster spot waiving Brown.
Somebody  
AcidTest : 2/6/2019 2:15 pm : link
said that Brown was playing hurt at the end of the year, which if true, could easily account for a decline in his performance. He seemed to play better after first arriving. My recollection is that multiple teams put in a waiver claim for him.
With our cap situation...  
edavisiii : 2/6/2019 2:15 pm : link
We can't afford to pay top dollar for every position. We probably can find a guard in rounds 4 to 7. Brown is better than a rookie but FA OL have been overpaid. But, what I like about Brown is he is huge. That beats teams down, Plus he is a great role model/locker room guy. The charity work he posts on twitter is awesome. He is a great guy. But tackles are harder to find. Gettleman might want to sign a RT and draft a guard. Either way, we can't keep overpaying for FAs.
Sounds like Jamon is willing to come back.  
Diver_Down : 2/6/2019 2:17 pm : link
Quote:
NY Giants Jamon Brown (@JB_The_GREAT_68)
2/5/19, 4:10 PM
Where my G-men at? We working, going to make 2019 a great year! We all in!!
There was a discussion on Jamon's value  
Diver_Down : 2/6/2019 2:19 pm : link
at the end of the season. It is likely in the archives. Starting caliber OL get paid. $2M/yr isn't going to cut it.
RE: Your supposition that Jamon was the weak link on the Rams  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/6/2019 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14289077 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
is not true. He was the starter. Ended up serving a 2 game suspension that caused him to be sidelined. Their OL was working just fine so he never regained his starter role. The Rams ended up trading for Fowler and needed to create a roster spot waiving Brown.


Weak link among the starting 5 OL. Since when do starting guys with rookie 3rd round contracts get released after a 2 game suspension?

PFF article quote prior to the 2018 season:

The Rams have been aggressive this offseason, but they still have holes to fill on their roster. Their offensive line is solid across the board, with the exception of right guard where Jamon Brown struggled in 2017 and produced a PFF grade of 52.1 which ranked 38th among players at the position.

He didn't grade out well for us either at PFF with a below average score similar to his 2017 PFF grade.
Rams all in for 2018 - ( New Window )
RE: There was a discussion on Jamon's value  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/6/2019 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14289085 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
at the end of the season. It is likely in the archives. Starting caliber OL get paid. $2M/yr isn't going to cut it.


Why hasn't Gettleman approached him yet then? Again, it's PFF, but from the link I provided he graded out 38 among 32 starting RGs... That's not a starting caliber average player, by their score. I am not saying 2 mil is enough, I don't know the figures, but he's not gonna get a fat deal from the Giants that compares with a typical starting RG in this league, I don't think. Not in $$ value nor in years. He's a "prove it" due guy.
RE: RE: Your supposition that Jamon was the weak link on the Rams  
Diver_Down : 2/6/2019 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14289091 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14289077 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


is not true. He was the starter. Ended up serving a 2 game suspension that caused him to be sidelined. Their OL was working just fine so he never regained his starter role. The Rams ended up trading for Fowler and needed to create a roster spot waiving Brown.



Weak link among the starting 5 OL. Since when do starting guys with rookie 3rd round contracts get released after a 2 game suspension?


When the team needs a roster spot. They had a luxury of goods with OL. Jamon was not playing. Fowler was going to start.

I'm not going to get into a discussion on PFF grades.
DD thanks for the suggestion of checking the archives for this  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/6/2019 2:35 pm : link
topic. From a mid December thread I found this:

Wow, some big offers teed up for Jamon
JonC : 12/11/2018 12:48 pm : link
I'd go $3M for one year. If things go well and to plan, he's a depth player.

Now that was a minority opinion, with several posters suggesting a solid starting RG contract of 5-6 mil per for a few years. But JonC wrote that just "shows our desperation" and put up the above # which is close to what I threw out above.

I think DG's behavior to this point suggests JonC and I are closer to the FO's view on Brown at this point.
He will get a descent pay day on the market  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/6/2019 2:37 pm : link
Because teams are desperate for compitant o-lineman. They are extremely hard to find. So yes he will field a big pay day if we canít lock him up before he gets to Free Agency.

Iíd like to keep him and upgrade around him. I can live with him being the weakest link, which isnít close to how bad it has been with Jerry and Omameh.
he will  
uther99 : 2/6/2019 2:41 pm : link
get more than 2 million a year. I bet he gets something like 3yr/12 million. He's only 25 year old and did start in 2018
RE: he will  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/6/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14289109 uther99 said:
Quote:
get more than 2 million a year. I bet he gets something like 3yr/12 million. He's only 25 year old and did start in 2018


I concur. He's competent, healthy, and young enough he provides upside. Those three things will net him at least 4 million a year in FA.
I'm guessing its  
.McL. : 2/6/2019 2:50 pm : link
15mil 3yr
He has not yet yet shown he's competent.  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/6/2019 3:00 pm : link
Or anything above a replacement level player. You want to commit multiple years to him? It's Omameh all over. Don't think DG is ready for that - again.
I think  
NYBEN1963 : 2/6/2019 3:12 pm : link
he can be the answer at RG at a decent price 3yrs/15 mil or so sounds about right. But it would be imperative that they upgrade both C and RT. He was ok, better than Omameh maybe better than Jerry but we are not talking Chris Snee here.
RE: He has not yet yet shown he's competent.  
uther99 : 2/6/2019 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14289119 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
Or anything above a replacement level player. You want to commit multiple years to him? It's Omameh all over. Don't think DG is ready for that - again.


I wasn't clear, I'm not sure the Giants will pay him 3/12, but some team will
RE: RE: He has not yet yet shown he's competent.  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/6/2019 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14289131 uther99 said:
Quote:

I wasn't clear, I'm not sure the Giants will pay him 3/12, but some team will


You may well have hit the nail on the head.
important to recall who were playing on his left and right  
ColHowPepper : 2/6/2019 3:17 pm : link
Halapio, Greco, Pulley @ C and Wheeler at RT...that's a whole lot of trash

Someone says you can't pay 'top dollar' for every position...wtf? We're hardly at top dollar, have to start with competence at most positions, so I'm with BigBlueDowntheShore
We gave Omameh 3 yr 15m 5.6m Guaranteed  
AcesUp : 2/6/2019 3:26 pm : link
I'd use that as a benchmark when looking at what Brown can get on the open market. We can certainly debate the merits of signing him to that contract but if you think he's signing for 2m on a prove it deal you're way off.
RE: important to recall who were playing on his left and right  
81_Great_Dane : 2/6/2019 3:28 pm : link
In comment 14289138 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
Halapio, Greco, Pulley @ C and Wheeler at RT...that's a whole lot of trash

Someone says you can't pay 'top dollar' for every position...wtf? We're hardly at top dollar, have to start with competence at most positions, so I'm with BigBlueDowntheShore
Average starting center and right tackle would be a huge upgrade.
DJ Fluker  
gmen9892 : 2/6/2019 3:41 pm : link
Received a 1.5 million dollar contract for 1 year coming off of a decent 2017 for the Giants. Pretty much the same exact play and amount of time that Brown played for the Giants last year. I find it hard to believe that Brown will get paid THAT much more per year. He was competent, and we are so starved for decent OL play that some here overrate him a bit. I'd love him back, but I wouldn't spend anything over 3 mill per year on the spot.
Brown played just ok which sadly was a clear upgrade...  
Torrag : 2/6/2019 3:55 pm : link
...over the drek he replaced. I wouldn't pay him legit starter money and would hope we can upgrade in the Draft.
RE: DJ Fluker  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/6/2019 4:09 pm : link
In comment 14289155 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
Received a 1.5 million dollar contract for 1 year coming off of a decent 2017 for the Giants. Pretty much the same exact play and amount of time that Brown played for the Giants last year. I find it hard to believe that Brown will get paid THAT much more per year. He was competent, and we are so starved for decent OL play that some here overrate him a bit. I'd love him back, but I wouldn't spend anything over 3 mill per year on the spot.


DJ Fluker sucked. I hate that people come back to him. He wasn't retained since he couldn't pick up a pass stunt to save his life.

I'd much rather have Jamon then Fluker.
RE: DJ Fluker  
Diver_Down : 2/6/2019 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14289155 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
Received a 1.5 million dollar contract for 1 year coming off of a decent 2017 for the Giants. Pretty much the same exact play and amount of time that Brown played for the Giants last year. I find it hard to believe that Brown will get paid THAT much more per year. He was competent, and we are so starved for decent OL play that some here overrate him a bit. I'd love him back, but I wouldn't spend anything over 3 mill per year on the spot.


Convenient that you left out the fact that he went on IR for a toe injury. A toe that didn't need surgical treatment sidelined a mountain of a man. No wonder he had to sign another prove-it deal.

People are clamoring to sign Daryl Williams who spent last season on IR with a busted knee. We aren't the ambulatory squad.

Yet, in the case of Brown, he is a young, healthy, starter who people want to relegate to the trash heap.
Brown is a decent starter  
Rjanyg : 2/6/2019 4:37 pm : link
Bringing him back is a smart move provided he doesnít break the bank. A RT is a bigger need and this will cost some money.
I think that Brown's a competent RG.  
yatqb : 2/6/2019 4:58 pm : link
And we have a lot of holes to fill. so it would be reasonable to re-sign him to a deal that we could get out of after a year or two without pain.

However, if Gettleman feels he can improve the roster at that position, all the better.
let him go  
GiantsFan84 : 2/6/2019 5:01 pm : link
some good interior players in this draft. just draft one and develop him
RE: let him go  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/6/2019 5:09 pm : link
In comment 14289225 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
some good interior players in this draft. just draft one and develop him


How has that worked out the past few years?
Consider we have Jack shit on the bench  
Bluesbreaker : 2/6/2019 5:13 pm : link
I would consider bringing him back . He has great size and he is young maybe he was dinged up at the end of the season
I hope they bring him back let him compete .
RE: RE: let him go  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/6/2019 5:15 pm : link
In comment 14289235 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:

How has that worked out the past few years?


Worked out great last year with Hernandez on the board early round 2, and a similarly good OL prospect will be on the board at 37 this year, almost surely.
The NFL is starving for starters in the OL......  
Doomster : 2/6/2019 5:16 pm : link
There is no comparison between him and Fluker, Fluker flat out sucked....

2M? In your dreams......He might get a better contract than Omameh got from the Giants....

Omameh, got cut, and actually got a raise, because he got paid full by the Giants for 2018, and then got a contract from the Jaguars, where he sucked there.....playing next to Flowers of all people....
RE: RE: RE: let him go  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/6/2019 5:44 pm : link
In comment 14289241 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14289235 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:



How has that worked out the past few years?



Worked out great last year with Hernandez on the board early round 2, and a similarly good OL prospect will be on the board at 37 this year, almost surely.


Iím sure we are going to fix the line via draft and FA.

Hernandez worked out great. I expect us to take at least one started on the Oline, the other bodies have to come from somewhere. Iíd rather not rotate through 4 players at RG again.
Backup price  
jeff57 : 2/6/2019 5:55 pm : link
Need a better starting RG.
RE: Backup price  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/6/2019 6:14 pm : link
In comment 14289264 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Need a better starting RG.


We need 3 starts on offense. Center to RT. We aren't fixing the entire thing in one offense. Brown is serviceable and could get better with better talent around him.
RE: important to recall who were playing on his left and right  
section125 : 2/6/2019 6:29 pm : link
In comment 14289138 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
Halapio, Greco, Pulley @ C and Wheeler at RT...that's a whole lot of trash

Someone says you can't pay 'top dollar' for every position...wtf? We're hardly at top dollar, have to start with competence at most positions, so I'm with BigBlueDowntheShore


He did not play with Halapio.
Brown's Performance Here  
Samiam : 2/6/2019 7:31 pm : link
I have no idea what the team should offer. But, in evaluating Brown's performance here, keep in mind that at a position where continuity of personnel is a major big deal, he came here in the middle of the season so he had no training camp. He had no prior experience with the coaches or any of his linemates and he played between a center and RT both of whom will be lucky to be in the league next year much starting on the Giants. If you think Brown did not perform well, I'd consider what he had to deal with to play with the Giants.
Pugh got  
uther99 : 2/6/2019 7:47 pm : link
5 years/45 million . Someone is paying Brown
You also have to compare him to all FA's Guards  
rasbutant : 2/6/2019 8:24 pm : link
Just because he played for the Giants last year doesn't mean he is more likely to be signed than any other FA.

Example, how does he compare to John Miller from the Bills? I'm guessing most don't even know who John Miller is, i don't really, but he had a better year (PFF) than Brown and is 26 years old and i haven't heard anyone talk about him getting big bucks.
Rasbutant -  
Diver_Down : 2/6/2019 8:41 pm : link
I don't think anyone is claiming that Brown will be signed for "big bucks". What I think the point of disagreement is whether Brown will only receive a "prove-it" deal of $2-3M/yr.

I think everyone will agree that the entire right side including center needs to be upgraded. It is a matter of prioritizing what cap dollars should be spent and what draft collateral should be used to do it. If Brown is the weakest link of the upgraded line, I think we will be all right.
BlueLou  
robbieballs2003 : 2/6/2019 9:56 pm : link
No offense especially because you are a good poster but what the hell? You cannot go into the draft saying we will just draft a guard at 37. That is absurd. That is Jerry Reese all over again with Flowers and Pugh. You sign vets to fill glaring needs and draft BPA. You don't draft for need like that especially needing a starter. We have so many freakin needs right now so saying we can just draft one at 37 is basically and probably taking away from other positions on this team that also desperately need help. We have cap space but not a crazy amount. We cannot just fix all our defensive needs in FA nor should that be our mentality. Although we should use FA so that we don't have glaring needs going into the draft and take the best talent availabke. If you sign Jamon Brown that doesn't mean we cannot draft another OL if he is worth the selection. But if another edge rusher, safety, corner, 3T, or OT is there and they are better then I want that better player.
RE: Pugh got  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/7/2019 3:49 am : link
In comment 14289363 uther99 said:
Quote:
5 years/45 million . Someone is paying Brown


There is no comparison between the two. Pugh, prior to his big signing as an UFA had back to back years at left guard grading out over 80 (or "good") by PFF. Jamon Brown has had back to back years grading out at about 50, or "below average."

Lots of folks here don't like PFF's grades, but for the most part they pass the smell test and league wide GMs seem to respect them, for better or worse.

What do I mean re the smell test? Well do most of us here agree Chad Wheeler was the worst starting OL for the Giants this year? Guess what, he also had the lowest PFF grade of about 45.
I have no problem bringing him back at a reasonable price  
The_Boss : 2/7/2019 8:41 am : link
But Iíd like to see him line up between players better than Halapio and Wheeler.
I would..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/7/2019 8:53 am : link
like to go into next season with Brown as our weakest OL player.

That would be a good sign for that unit finally.
C'mon..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/7/2019 9:02 am : link
where are you getting this from??

Quote:
Lots of folks here don't like PFF's grades, but for the most part they pass the smell test and league wide GMs seem to respect them, for better or worse.


GM's seem to respect them? You can find takes from a lot of GM's, coaches and player's who directly challenge how players can be graded without knowing their assignments. From Belicheck:

Quote:
" How can my team be graded without knowing the intention of the play at hand? We even struggle internally sorting out grades. We need a little closer analysis a lot of times. Sometimes the play calls or what was called on the line of scrimmage might be something that weíre not aware of. That could happen in any game.

You think a player did something that he shouldnít have done but maybe he got a call, a line call or a call from a linebacker or he thought the quarterback said something so he did what he thought was the right thing or maybe it was the right thing but that call shouldnít have been made or should have been on the other side. That's the additional detail we discuss when evaluating the film and when we assess how our players have performedĒ


An outsider has no idea what the playcall was or what the assignment is and you have many reviewers with no football experience making these judgements. It has been shown time and again that even as a directional tool it is far off. You can look to the absurd low grade Rodgers had in a 4TD game as one end of the spectrum, but those type of examples exist week in and week out.
RE: I'm guessing its  
Toth029 : 2/7/2019 10:33 am : link
In comment 14289112 .McL. said:
Quote:
15mil 3yr

Same deal as Omameh.
Omameh was a desperation move by a pro personnel depaertment  
Ivan15 : 2/7/2019 2:00 pm : link
not yet focused or prepared to shift free agent targets. $10-$12 million for 3 years would have been about right, and that still would have been a big miss.

Canít make that mistake again.
RE: RE: Pugh got  
uther99 : 2/7/2019 7:38 pm : link
In comment 14289499 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14289363 uther99 said:


Quote:


5 years/45 million . Someone is paying Brown



There is no comparison between the two. Pugh, prior to his big signing as an UFA had back to back years at left guard grading out over 80 (or "good") by PFF. Jamon Brown has had back to back years grading out at about 50, or "below average."

Lots of folks here don't like PFF's grades, but for the most part they pass the smell test and league wide GMs seem to respect them, for better or worse.

What do I mean re the smell test? Well do most of us here agree Chad Wheeler was the worst starting OL for the Giants this year? Guess what, he also had the lowest PFF grade of about 45.


I didn't mean Brown would get Pugh's contract. I meant that if Pugh can get 5/45 the Brown can get 3/12.
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