NFT: True Detective with Spoilers

that it's Hays wife?

was the killer...interesting

In fact, until the very end of the episode I didn't think it was just "implied." When he was quoting his wife's book in comparison to the letter made of magazine letter-clippings, I assumed until the very end it struck him that it was his wife. Only when he was visiting old Stephen Dorff did he reveal that he thought that connection meant it was the mother, because his wife was quoting the mother.

Now that it's just implied (or at least me and the OP see it that way) I very much hope it's not, of course.

but I highly doubt it, would be pretty dumb, IMO.

In comment 14289645 Mike in Long Beach said:

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In fact, until the very end of the episode I didn't think it was just "implied." When he was quoting his wife's book in comparison to the letter made of magazine letter-clippings, I assumed until the very end it struck him that it was his wife. Only when he was visiting old Stephen Dorff did he reveal that he thought that connection meant it was the mother, because his wife was quoting the mother. Now that it's just implied (or at least me and the OP see it that way) I very much hope it's not, of course.

looks like people agree with you
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a26201261/true-detective-season-3-wife-amelia-killer-theory-explained/ - ( New Window )

...which episode was it where she plans on flirting with the police officer to get further information? She came home proud of obtaining information in which Hays was annoyed on how giddy she was acting. I'd be shocked if it was her based on everything you pointed out.

The taped phone call and the conversation at the end has me excited for the next episode.

has been really good so far ,the scene with the guy that had the house rigged up with explosives was great

That cousin (who's remains the TV producers found and showed pics to Hays) is still involved somehow. Remember the first episode where he drilled a hole in the closet wall of the boys room, so he could look into the little girls room. Hays saw that and then learned that the cousin was staying in that room when he was visiting.

So, IMO, him and how he ends up dead are still something we need to find out before the last episode.

In comment 14289704 26.2 said:

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That cousin (who's remains the TV producers found and showed pics to Hays) is still involved somehow. Remember the first episode where he drilled a hole in the closet wall of the boys room, so he could look into the little girls room. Hays saw that and then learned that the cousin was staying in that room when he was visiting. So, IMO, him and how he ends up dead are still something we need to find out before the last episode.

Add to that his "employment" during time of visit. I wonder if he was connected to the Food Company in some way, a bottom rung guy somehow.

I've thought this was a possibility from the time we met her, but it would be a major reach imo. The show would need to present her as the killer in an absolutely masterful way without making the whole season look stupid.

If I had to guess, it's the uncle we saw before who is actually Julie's biological father.

In comment 14289704 26.2 said:

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That cousin (who's remains the TV producers found and showed pics to Hays) is still involved somehow. Remember the first episode where he drilled a hole in the closet wall of the boys room, so he could look into the little girls room. Hays saw that and then learned that the cousin was staying in that room when he was visiting. So, IMO, him and how he ends up dead are still something we need to find out before the last episode.

Is the cousin the guy Hayes & Roland killed?

What about the pedophile they roughed up in the barn? Did they remember to take him out of the trunk of the car?

the cousin came during the funeral and was later reported dead out in the desert.

If she were, then that would imply that she somehow had contact with Julie after the murders. Seems implausible.

I do think that she knew who the killer was - which is how she was able to write the book.

The 'a-ha' moment to me will be when Hays discovers that she had interviewed the killer, knew who that person was, and never told him.

On another topic, can we discuss how good Stephen Dorff is? He's more than holding his own opposite Mahershala Ali. Especially when it comes to the non-verbal stuff.

I don't think I'd ever realized how good of an actor he is, perhaps because my main memory of him is in Blade. Hopefully this role leads to bigger roles for him.

In comment 14289645 Mike in Long Beach said:

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In fact, until the very end of the episode I didn't think it was just "implied." When he was quoting his wife's book in comparison to the letter made of magazine letter-clippings, I assumed until the very end it struck him that it was his wife. Only when he was visiting old Stephen Dorff did he reveal that he thought that connection meant it was the mother, because his wife was quoting the mother. Now that it's just implied (or at least me and the OP see it that way) I very much hope it's not, of course.

I think it's clear that Hayes wife was quoting Lucy in the book and that's how purple realized that Lucy wrote the ransom letter because he had never written the book before.

That and the dead cousin who was creeping on his niece, there is a connection there, or at least that's what they want you to think.

In comment 14289718 Motley Two said:

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In comment 14289704 26.2 said: Quote: That cousin (who's remains the TV producers found and showed pics to Hays) is still involved somehow. Remember the first episode where he drilled a hole in the closet wall of the boys room, so he could look into the little girls room. Hays saw that and then learned that the cousin was staying in that room when he was visiting. So, IMO, him and how he ends up dead are still something we need to find out before the last episode. Is the cousin the guy Hayes & Roland killed? What about the pedophile they roughed up in the barn? Did they remember to take him out of the trunk of the car?

We don't know that they killed the cousin yet (they allude to perhaps killing someone in the last episode though), but yes, he is dead in 2015, but not in 1980. They say that they "had him in vegas until '97 then he dropped off the map."

I'm not saying he's the killer, but he's still involved somehow, IMO.

In comment 14289739 BH28 said:

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In comment 14289645 Mike in Long Beach said: Quote: In fact, until the very end of the episode I didn't think it was just "implied." When he was quoting his wife's book in comparison to the letter made of magazine letter-clippings, I assumed until the very end it struck him that it was his wife. Only when he was visiting old Stephen Dorff did he reveal that he thought that connection meant it was the mother, because his wife was quoting the mother. Now that it's just implied (or at least me and the OP see it that way) I very much hope it's not, of course. I think it's clear that Hayes wife was quoting Lucy in the book and that's how purple realized that Lucy wrote the ransom letter because he had never written the book before. That and the dead cousin who was creeping on his niece, there is a connection there, or at least that's what they want you to think.

I’ve suspected othe mother is involved - maybe she was having an affair with the cousin, and wanted to either get the kids away from the alcoholic father, or wanted a way out of the family life she hates. But that almost seemed too obvious at first

Point being...plenty of hints the perpetrator didn’t want to harm the kids, but rather to “rescue” them, or at least not hurt them. The boys death almost seems accidental.

The gunfight with the Vietnam vet/garbage man, culminating in him choosing to commit suicide to Hays was really moving and very well done.

This season is similar to season 1 in that I find myself much more invested in these characters

In comment 14289747 26.2 said:

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In comment 14289718 Motley Two said: Quote: In comment 14289704 26.2 said: Quote: That cousin (who's remains the TV producers found and showed pics to Hays) is still involved somehow. Remember the first episode where he drilled a hole in the closet wall of the boys room, so he could look into the little girls room. Hays saw that and then learned that the cousin was staying in that room when he was visiting. So, IMO, him and how he ends up dead are still something we need to find out before the last episode. Is the cousin the guy Hayes & Roland killed? What about the pedophile they roughed up in the barn? Did they remember to take him out of the trunk of the car? We don't know that they killed the cousin yet (they allude to perhaps killing someone in the last episode though), but yes, he is dead in 2015, but not in 1980. They say that they "had him in vegas until '97 then he dropped off the map." I'm not saying he's the killer, but he's still involved somehow, IMO.

sorry - should be "vegas until '87, then dropped off the map."

In comment 14289730 RobCarpenter said:

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If she were, then that would imply that she somehow had contact with Julie after the murders. Seems implausible. I do think that she knew who the killer was - which is how she was able to write the book. The 'a-ha' moment to me will be when Hays discovers that she had interviewed the killer, knew who that person was, and never told him. On another topic, can we discuss how good Stephen Dorff is? He's more than holding his own opposite Mahershala Ali. Especially when it comes to the non-verbal stuff. I don't think I'd ever realized how good of an actor he is, perhaps because my main memory of him is in Blade. Hopefully this role leads to bigger roles for him.

Agree on Dorff. He's been incredible. Only thing I don't like is wig they have him sporting in the 1980 scenes. That thing is Cersi Lannister bad.

Another thing - in the first episode, at the funeral, Hays talks to the victims grandparents and the grandmother alludes that perhaps Tom Purcell isn't the boys father.

find it very hard to hear/understand the actor who plays Hays. He mumbles and talks very low - we have to rewind often to hear what he is saying. Other than that the flashbacks to the 90's and 80's are very cool with the clothing/hair style/car and other cultural changes during those time periods.

In comment 14289765 giant24 said:

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find it very hard to hear/understand the actor who plays Hays. He mumbles and talks very low - we have to rewind often to hear what he is saying. Other than that the flashbacks to the 90's and 80's are very cool with the clothing/hair style/car and other cultural changes during those time periods.

I watch everything in subtitles, shows are infinitely better with them on. Once you watch an episode with them and pick up everything that’s going on, you won’t want to turn them off.

I think it's gotta be atleast 80%. I'd be shocked if Hayes and West finally figured it out as old men, rather than just re-track what Hayes already figured out.

and whether he ever re-connected with Julie. The TV host referenced an incident between father and daughter in 1990, but no other direct references have been made to it. Unless Julie's phone call to the hotline was the incident, but I doubt it.

that the woman interviewing Hayes in 2015 is Julie Purcell herself?

the kid slipped and fell and cracked his skull on those rocks while he was out in the woods with his sister and her real father. Thinking no one would believe it was an accident, he put the boy in that position and left dolls so he would be found, and took his daughter away. He was a neighbor who had an affair with the kid's mom. Hence living close enough by to give the girl the doll on halloween.

Remember during the kid's funeral service at his home, his grandmother said it was rumored the girl wasn't her son's child. She wasn't.

Maybe the point of all this is just how far the damage goes, how many lives are lost and fucked up by something that isn't even what it seems. Or by the affair of the mother.

And is Haye's daughter someone else's child???

so she'd be 45 in the 2015 timeline - that woman looks too young. I've never bought that theory, or the Amelia-is-the-killer theory. The show is more about the relationships between the two detectives, the case is just the vehicle they use to explore that. The revelation will likely be a downer - remember, in season one people suspected Marty, Rust, Marty's father, and a bunch of others.

maybe the man they killed is the father of Haye's daughter.

.

told Hayes the day after Hayes and West presumably killed someone in 1990. Whatever it was, Hayes left his job - maybe he was threatened in some way and had no choice, or they had knowledge of what he did and were blackmailing him. Whatever it was, he didn't mention it to Roland at the time.

In comment 14289833 bceagle05 said:

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told Hayes the day after Hayes and West presumably killed someone in 1990. Whatever it was, Hayes left his job - maybe he was threatened in some way and had no choice, or they had knowledge of what he did and were blackmailing him. Whatever it was, he didn't mention it to Roland at the time.

possible theory is they killed the cop that went missing in 1990

is the killer, but Pizzolatto has shot down that theory.

A lot of the speculation came from things Hays never told Amelia about the scene (the body, the toys, etc.) but Pizzolatto has said they cut the scenes where he explains the scene to her because of time. Rare for a writer to come out and reveal something like that.

Furthermore, Amelia is the one who found the kid they were trick or treating with and finds the dolls, she is the one who also led to other lines of investigation that were otherwise not covered by Hays and West.

In comment 14289815 FatHeadTommy said:

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the kid slipped and fell and cracked his skull on those rocks while he was out in the woods with his sister and her real father. Thinking no one would believe it was an accident, he put the boy in that position and left dolls so he would be found, and took his daughter away. He was a neighbor who had an affair with the kid's mom. Hence living close enough by to give the girl the doll on halloween. Remember during the kid's funeral service at his home, his grandmother said it was rumored the girl wasn't her son's child. She wasn't. Maybe the point of all this is just how far the damage goes, how many lives are lost and fucked up by something that isn't even what it seems. Or by the affair of the mother. And is Haye's daughter someone else's child???

I like this theory. It would explain the peep hole in the closet. The real father hid there so he could see his children. The mother let them have contact with one another eventually or the father befriended her.

I don’t think the Boys father was an acholoic until the event. He didn’t seem like a boozer until the tragedy. That’s when he turned into one.

but one thing thats been bugging me is the backpack. How did no one realize it was planted immediately after seeing those pictures? The first thought I had was there was no way it was there when the claymore went off. I can see that from my couch and a team of police and detectives didnt notice for 10 years? A (minor) inconsistency in an otherwise tight story.

Agree that Dorf has been exceptional.

In comment 14289922 j_rud said:

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but one thing thats been bugging me is the backpack. How did no one realize it was planted immediately after seeing those pictures? The first thought I had was there was no way it was there when the claymore went off. I can see that from my couch and a team of police and detectives didnt notice for 10 years? A (minor) inconsistency in an otherwise tight story. Agree that Dorf has been exceptional.

On the backpack, I had the sense that no one wanted to know, they just wanted to close the case and move on. But your question is a good one, how would Hays and West missed it?

I also remember from season 1 when Pizzolatto put the killer in plain sight, and wonder if he'll do that again here, if he hasn't already.

Here's an article about Dorff:
Article on Dorff - ( New Window )

In comment 14289922 j_rud said:

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but one thing thats been bugging me is the backpack. How did no one realize it was planted immediately after seeing those pictures? The first thought I had was there was no way it was there when the claymore went off. I can see that from my couch and a team of police and detectives didnt notice for 10 years? A (minor) inconsistency in an otherwise tight story. Agree that Dorf has been exceptional.

One thing is very apparent throughout the show is that the scientific way that police officers collect evidence wasn't very established in the first time period. All the evidence that is collected is just grabbed hand first.

I think the burnt shirt threw off the sent on the backpack. They found it in the back and just thought oh well he have him, and that's why the backpack was over looked.

and he's the real father?

In comment 14289992 mattnyg05 said:

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and he's the real father?

I thought they said the cousin lived pretty far away not in the general vicinity.

The Ozark Children's Outreach Foundation and Hoyt Foods here in TD Season 3 = Tuttle Ministries/Light of Way School in TD Season 1. There's an evil machine that's in play here orchestrating the whole thing.

that came in on the hotline about the girl being at a snake ranch, that they brushed off might be true.

Don’t forget Lucy worked in the food company that Hoyt owns, and he also lost his daughter. I think him and Gerald Kindt the DA are wrapped up in Will’s murder big time.

In comment 14289760 26.2 said:

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Another thing - in the first episode, at the funeral, Hays talks to the victims grandparents and the grandmother alludes that perhaps Tom Purcell isn't the boys father.

Yea I think this will be important in the end. Although I think they were suggesting he wasn't the girl's father.

Real daddy may be involved in her kidnapping.

In comment 14290010 Emlen'sGremlins said:

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The Ozark Children's Outreach Foundation and Hoyt Foods here in TD Season 3 = Tuttle Ministries/Light of Way School in TD Season 1. There's an evil machine that's in play here orchestrating the whole thing.

I agree. There is a much bigger picture here. There is a reason why Bill Clinton's picture is shown on multiple occasions. They (the producers) go out their way to have Stephen Doorfs character make a disparaging remark about the impeached ex President. Check out You Tube videos one "The Lolita Express". Be forewarned: "Sometimes ignorance is bliss."

everyone is missing out on two episodes age when hayes and his future wife were in the bar...and the bartender winked at hayes wife....they are connected...take it to the bank

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Yea I think this will be important in the end. Although I think they were suggesting he wasn't the girl's father. Real daddy may be involved in her kidnapping.

Yes they said he wasn't the father of the daughter. The real father seems like the most likely suspect.

In comment 14290311 smorgan741 said:

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In comment 14290010 Emlen'sGremlins said: Quote: The Ozark Children's Outreach Foundation and Hoyt Foods here in TD Season 3 = Tuttle Ministries/Light of Way School in TD Season 1. There's an evil machine that's in play here orchestrating the whole thing. I agree. There is a much bigger picture here. There is a reason why Bill Clinton's picture is shown on multiple occasions. They (the producers) go out their way to have Stephen Doorfs character make a disparaging remark about the impeached ex President. Check out You Tube videos one "The Lolita Express". Be forewarned: "Sometimes ignorance is bliss."

An easy explanation why Clintons pic is common is he was Gov of Arkansas

why bother showing it otherwise?

In comment 14290375 UConn4523 said:

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why bother showing it otherwise?

For timeframing purposes maybe?

In comment 14290460 montanagiant said:

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In comment 14290375 UConn4523 said: Quote: why bother showing it otherwise? For timeframing purposes maybe?

Possibly be we already know the 3 timelines, seems like it was there for another reason.