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Vacchiano says Giants likely to take a QB in the first 2 rds

Strahan91 : 2/7/2019 10:48 am
Will delete if already posted but I didn't see anything previously.

Quote:
There seems to be a very good chance that they'll take one with the sixth pick of the draft where quarterbacks like Ohio State's Dwayne Haskins, Missouri's Drew Lock, Duke's Daniel Jones and maybe even Oklahoma's Kyler Murray are possible options. Several others, like West Virginia's Will Grier, could be options on Day 2.

The Giants could also use their second-round pick to trade back into the first round if one of those top-tier quarterbacks slips farther than they expect.

So their options are open, but they do seem more serious about finding Manning's heir apparent than they were at this time last year. Manning, as SNY has been reporting, is expected to return as the starter for the 2019 season. But the Giants are hopeful that right behind him on the depth chart his eventual successor will be on board.

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christian : 2/8/2019 11:22 pm : link
There's no perfect way to motivate or attract talent. And there's no perfect template to operate an organization. You can't copy what any team has done in any particular year and expect the same result.

The good teams know you can't protect yourself against all the variables.

What you can do is invest wisely, prioritize, and be aggressively self aware.

The single factor between Ernie Accorsi being the butt of a hair joke and the elder statesman of NFL management was understanding the window had closed for the 2000 Super Bowl team.

It wasn't so much picking Manning. It was not picking Robert Gallery. He didn't cling to the fleeting hope he could squeeze something out of something that was gone. Collins 31 mind you.

The Giants incontrovertibly haven't invested their cap wisely (~60% in 6 players), haven't succeeded in building a pipeline of depth, and to this point been wise enough to build around a new focal point at QB.

QB is an outsized factor on a team by design. Maybe more than the head coach and GM, an NFL team is who their QB is.

Accorsi knew this, and it made all the difference. Maybe the Giants can eek out a playoff appearance with what Manning has left.

But does anyone see a championship?
RE: I have no real dog in this fight  
ron mexico : 2/9/2019 8:55 am : link
In comment 14291294 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but you canít ignore what Eli is owed because his dead cap hit + what weíd pay a vet will be and even bigger waste of money.

Tyrod Taylor just came off of a 2 year $30 million deal with half guaranteed, and he sucks. So who are we getting for cheaper than that while also absorbing Eliís dead cap?


Fitz, schaubb or mccown
I dont know how, after that season, youd have much belief  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/9/2019 9:21 am : link
In Josh Allen.
RE: RE: I have no real dog in this fight  
UConn4523 : 2/9/2019 9:25 am : link
In comment 14291492 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14291294 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


but you canít ignore what Eli is owed because his dead cap hit + what weíd pay a vet will be and even bigger waste of money.

Tyrod Taylor just came off of a 2 year $30 million deal with half guaranteed, and he sucks. So who are we getting for cheaper than that while also absorbing Eliís dead cap?



Fitz, schaubb or mccown


Great, going to be funny around here with Fitzmagic throwing picks for $8-10m + Eliís dead cap. Again, whatís the point?

Thereís only 2 ways to do this. Cut Eli and go with a rookie or keep Eli and let the rookie sit. Eliís dead cap makes another ďstopgapĒ even more costly.
Fitz gets paid 3mil a year  
ron mexico : 2/9/2019 9:27 am : link
It's a well established rate.
McCown turns 40 in July.  
Britt in VA : 2/9/2019 9:28 am : link
.
RE: ...  
bw in dc : 2/9/2019 9:30 am : link
In comment 14291432 christian said:
Quote:

QB is an outsized factor on a team by design. Maybe more than the head coach and GM, an NFL team is who their QB is.

Accorsi knew this, and it made all the difference. Maybe the Giants can eek out a playoff appearance with what Manning has left.

But does anyone see a championship?


Exactly. This is the right question to ask. Itís something Iíve said repeatedly - if you canít build a rational case to win a SB with Eli, at this age and point in his career, there is simply no reason to keep him.

Keeping him wastes time for the team and the next QB to develop with each other.

And short of renegotiating a too-good-to-be true cap friendly contract with Eli, his cap savings are material and important to reinvest in other players/positions.
Toothless replies  
Jimmy Googs : 2/9/2019 9:34 am : link
is all you will get from the "Please, don't ever, ever part with Eli Manning" crowd.

They won't answer the question can you see a championship with Eli...they will just say who else you gonna get?
RE: McCown turns 40 in July.  
ron mexico : 2/9/2019 9:34 am : link
In comment 14291502 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.


Who cares, the whole point of signing him is to move on to a young guy.
If the team is good enough to get into the playoffs next season....  
Britt in VA : 2/9/2019 9:37 am : link
YES, I can see Eli taking them all the way. Why not?

That a good enough answer for you?
Eli was good enough to beat Green Bay....  
Britt in VA : 2/9/2019 9:37 am : link
in 2016.
And no,  
Britt in VA : 2/9/2019 9:38 am : link
that does not mean build around Eli.

It just means keep him there until his replacement is found, and if we manage to win in the meantime, then great.
The Giants have just completed  
joeinpa : 2/9/2019 9:39 am : link
Two awful seasons trying to be good.

There is no way they buy into the idea of a total rebuild which seems to be what some are suggesting
And btw...  
Britt in VA : 2/9/2019 9:40 am : link
what I just said above is EXACTLY what they're going to do.

And it makes sense. Even if you lunatics don't see it, understand it, or want it.
Yes it's probably what they will do  
ron mexico : 2/9/2019 9:47 am : link
Wether or not it makes sense is yet to be seen.

If it results in another loosing season it will be a poor choice.
RE: The Giants are 19th in the NFL in cap space  
HomerJones45 : 2/9/2019 10:01 am : link
In comment 14291318 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If you're going to be in the bottom half in cap space it should be because you are paying big money to a highly productive quarterback. That is not the case with the Giants.

In terms of personnel, cutting Eli should be at the top of the priority list. Just behind him should be cutting Vernon, Jenkins, and Ogeltree. Cutting those four underperforming contacts would add $41M in cap space. That would get the Giants up to $69M in cap space, and allow them a better opportunity to rethink how they want to approach their cap allocation philosophy.
Cap space uber alles is neither a goal nor a strategy. What do you plan on doing with all this cap space? Extending young stars? Uh no, because there are none other than Barkley and he's under contract for another 3 years. Buying other team's free agents? Well, that was the Jerry "throw me a life ring" Reese strategy that led to the "underperforming contracts" that you now want to jettison.

Meanwhile, there is the minor issue of what do you do under center with the Cap Space Uber Alles plan. Forget for a minute the potential issue of the effect on other players of a public demonstration that the team is punting the season. 7-20 million of that cap space is going to spent on a stopgap while waiting for . . . Lauletta??

I get it; we need to have a plan to move on. I don't think generating cap space for the sake of cap space is it.
RE: If the team is good enough to get into the playoffs next season....  
bw in dc : 2/9/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14291510 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
YES, I can see Eli taking them all the way. Why not?

That a good enough answer for you?


No, because youíre not rational. Which was the key point of my comment.

You are the Ambassador of Eli.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/9/2019 10:17 am : link
FWIW, I am not one of the "keep going with Eli" guys - I have said repeatedly that the longer this goes on, the more difficult and more expensive it becomes to give Eli the pieces he needs to win a championship.

I think we're at a point where the window is closing on him too quickly for us to have enough time to give him the team he needs. So, we're kind of chasing something I don't think we'll ever be able to catch in that regard.

Hey, I'd take Haskins right now. That's the guy I want to be the next QB here. But I can also see a scenario where there's a much better non-QB prospect on the board @ 6. Williams almost certainly will not be there - but if for some reason he were - I'd pass on the QB's and take him (Haskins would likely have been taken already under that scenario anyway)

If it turns out that we go ER/DL or even OL instead of QB, then I'm not against using Eli as a stopgap for one more year and then just letting him walk and retire in 2020 and going after a QB in that draft. Ideally Tua.

Cutting Eli + paying a veteran doesn't really do anything for me if we're going with anything other than a rookie. What would the point be?
RE: Eli was good enough to beat Green Bay....  
Jimmy Googs : 2/9/2019 10:23 am : link
In comment 14291511 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
in 2016.


No he wasn't. Did they drop all his passes in the second half as well?
This Eli argument is fucking dumb  
UConn4523 : 2/9/2019 10:26 am : link
canít believe you guys waste so much time in that pissing match.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/9/2019 10:26 am : link
Eli basically had nothing to do with the playoff loss in GB. The defense started off really well and then after the hail mary, they completely fell apart.

We had a chance to step on them right away - we came out of the gates quickly. But the drops stymied the offense, kept points off the board, and then ultimately just never allowed us to get on track.

There was a glimmer of hope after Eli hit TK on the deep post TD, but the defense that was suffocating and frustrating Rodgers early couldn't hold and the dam broke.

But at this point, what good does it do to re-hash a playoff game from 2 years ago? If we get back, it'll have been 3 years since then. It's basically ancient history as far as the NFL is concerned.
RE: And btw...  
Jimmy Googs : 2/9/2019 10:27 am : link
In comment 14291516 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
what I just said above is EXACTLY what they're going to do.

And it makes sense. Even if you lunatics don't see it, understand it, or want it.


Here we go again...yes, they may do it but that doesn't comport to its the right path.

But if that helps you remind everybody that you are a good predictor of poor decisions then so be it.

Might as well sticky this thread. We will need it 12 months from now when nothing has changed...
RE: .  
Jimmy Googs : 2/9/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14291537 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Eli basically had nothing to do with the playoff loss in GB. The defense started off really well and then after the hail mary, they completely fell apart.

We had a chance to step on them right away - we came out of the gates quickly. But the drops stymied the offense, kept points off the board, and then ultimately just never allowed us to get on track.

There was a glimmer of hope after Eli hit TK on the deep post TD, but the defense that was suffocating and frustrating Rodgers early couldn't hold and the dam broke.

But at this point, what good does it do to re-hash a playoff game from 2 years ago? If we get back, it'll have been 3 years since then. It's basically ancient history as far as the NFL is concerned.


Yep, they kept scoring and our guys stopped. It was a sound beating over 60 minutes b/c thats how long games last. No matter if their were drops in 1stQTR. He wasn't good enough and they weren't good enough.
Well I disagree that  
UConn4523 : 2/9/2019 10:35 am : link
1st quarter drops donít matter, thatís an absurd statement. Scoring early and often completely changes the game and makes the job easier for the defense. How is that even debatable?

Was it the reason we lost? No. Did it play a big factor? Absolutely.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/9/2019 10:38 am : link
It does matter that there were drops - we're talking about drops that literally took points off the board.

Not sure how that's even debatable.

Momentum and game flow are real and those drops certainly impacted both.
RE: This Eli argument is fucking dumb  
ron mexico : 2/9/2019 10:39 am : link
In comment 14291536 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
canít believe you guys waste so much time in that pissing match.


What's the you guys stuff? Did someime hack your account and make all those posts under your username?
The Giants were a completely outmatched team  
Jimmy Googs : 2/9/2019 10:42 am : link
in the second half. It was a joke at some point and we were beaten by a much better team.

Moving on from this historical period of the team that has no relevance whatsoever on this thread.

Except of course for a few to cling on to memories of yesteryear when our HOF QB threw a few good passes that were dropped.
Hi  
crick n NC : 2/9/2019 10:47 am : link
Everybody, how is it going!?
RE: The Giants were a completely outmatched team  
GiantGrit : 2/9/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14291547 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
in the second half. It was a joke at some point and we were beaten by a much better team.

Moving on from this historical period of the team that has no relevance whatsoever on this thread.

Except of course for a few to cling on to memories of yesteryear when our HOF QB threw a few good passes that were dropped.


The hail mary changed the game.
RE: And btw...  
christian : 2/9/2019 10:53 am : link
In comment 14291516 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
what I just said above is EXACTLY what they're going to do.

And it makes sense. Even if you lunatics don't see it, understand it, or want it.


Britt, you guessing the Giants will make the loyal, arguably counter productive, decision around Manning is about as impressive as predicting when the clock will strike midnight.

And me guessing Manning will get beat like a bag for half the season as 3/5 of the line gets it together and Manning has zero mobility is equally unimpressive.

If you think there is any comparison to draw between 2016 Manning and the New York Giants 2016 roster -- and today -- that's a pretty good stretch.

"Why not" isn't a faith deepening strategy to run a business.
Great thread  
BigBlueShock : 2/9/2019 10:53 am : link
Full of fresh material. Itís good to see everyone share opinions we havenít seen from them before. And here I thought certain posters on this site were stuck in their ways and unwilling to listen to opposing views.

Riveting stuff...
Agree...we need some fresh stuff  
Jimmy Googs : 2/9/2019 11:07 am : link
How about them Yanks?

Pitchers and catchers report this week I think...
RE: Agree...we need some fresh stuff  
BigBlueShock : 2/9/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14291564 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
How about them Yanks?

Pitchers and catchers report this week I think...

Absolutely! Canít wait. Theyíre my one team that actually gives me some hope
.  
arcarsenal : 2/9/2019 11:19 am : link
Thank god for baseball.... I cannot do this for another 6 months!
RE: The Giants were a completely outmatched team  
UConn4523 : 2/9/2019 11:38 am : link
In comment 14291547 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
in the second half. It was a joke at some point and we were beaten by a much better team.

Moving on from this historical period of the team that has no relevance whatsoever on this thread.

Except of course for a few to cling on to memories of yesteryear when our HOF QB threw a few good passes that were dropped.


Of course you want to move on, youíre argument sucks. For as much as you give Britt shit you are so far on the other extreme and just as bad.

And Iím not clinging at all to 2016, simply correcting the absurd take that not scoring more points in the 1st half has no impact on the 2nd half. Just awful.
Ironically....  
Britt in VA : 2/9/2019 12:12 pm : link
Jimmy will tell you all about "backbreaking" 1st quarter INT's all day long.
RE: RE: The Giants were a completely outmatched team  
Jimmy Googs : 2/9/2019 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14291584 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14291547 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


in the second half. It was a joke at some point and we were beaten by a much better team.

Moving on from this historical period of the team that has no relevance whatsoever on this thread.

Except of course for a few to cling on to memories of yesteryear when our HOF QB threw a few good passes that were dropped.



Of course you want to move on, youíre argument sucks. For as much as you give Britt shit you are so far on the other extreme and just as bad.

And Iím not clinging at all to 2016, simply correcting the absurd take that not scoring more points in the 1st half has no impact on the 2nd half. Just awful.


the post wasnt to you. Nor is my argument what you are screaming about.

The comment was Eli was good enough to beat GB...and he wasn't. The Giants had drops that caused TDs to be FGs..got it...I am briefed. But they also had 3 more qtrs to make up for it and did nothing on Offense and Defense. That is why they lost. They lost to a team that was better all-around including at QB.

If you want to hypothesize some "lost ring" because of two dropped passes early in this outing or that Eli didn't have time to make up for it or even score a point in the 4thQTR then you are on drugs. Was every single play in the game directly impacted back to these dropped passes? They lost 38-13 and the offense did about what they normally did back then, not score much.
RE: Ironically....  
Jimmy Googs : 2/9/2019 1:09 pm : link
In comment 14291605 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Jimmy will tell you all about "backbreaking" 1st quarter INT's all day long.


Huh..what is your problem now? How is he throwing back-breaking ints when he hasnt played a game that mattered in years? You are living in 2011...wake up.
RE: Toothless replies  
Johnny5 : 2/9/2019 3:01 pm : link
In comment 14291507 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
is all you will get from the "Please, don't ever, ever part with Eli Manning" crowd.

They won't answer the question can you see a championship with Eli...they will just say who else you gonna get?

Holy crap why do you guys take this so personally? If people want to be enamored of Eli still (I am STILL), what does it mean to you? I mean really I don't understand these back and forth arguments that he sucks and he's done. At the end of the day he is at the end of his career. Some of us still think he is good enough in a 2-3 year window, especially if the offense keeps growing and he gets protected. And it's not like there is not good evidence to argue that fact. I and others think he is still good enough. I and others don't see any better option for next year. Why can't we just agree to disagree? lol

It doesn't matter how sure we are that we're right, we could (ALL of us here) actually be wrong.
Meanwhile he'll tell you that others are the emotional ones....  
Britt in VA : 2/9/2019 3:15 pm : link
As I said earlier, self awareness isn't a strong suit for some posters.

Now he's taking to calling other posters shit stains for disagreeing with him.

But he's not emotional at all.
What now? I didnt call anybody that  
Jimmy Googs : 2/9/2019 3:20 pm : link
for disagreeing with me at all.

awful...
Sure...  
Britt in VA : 2/9/2019 3:23 pm : link
that's not what you were implying at all on the other thread.
It must be your fabulous self-awareness  
Jimmy Googs : 2/9/2019 3:28 pm : link
skills that are failing you...
RE: RE: RE: The Giants were a completely outmatched team  
arcarsenal : 2/9/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14291654 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14291584 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 14291547 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


in the second half. It was a joke at some point and we were beaten by a much better team.

Moving on from this historical period of the team that has no relevance whatsoever on this thread.

Except of course for a few to cling on to memories of yesteryear when our HOF QB threw a few good passes that were dropped.



Of course you want to move on, youíre argument sucks. For as much as you give Britt shit you are so far on the other extreme and just as bad.

And Iím not clinging at all to 2016, simply correcting the absurd take that not scoring more points in the 1st half has no impact on the 2nd half. Just awful.



the post wasnt to you. Nor is my argument what you are screaming about.

The comment was Eli was good enough to beat GB...and he wasn't. The Giants had drops that caused TDs to be FGs..got it...I am briefed. But they also had 3 more qtrs to make up for it and did nothing on Offense and Defense. That is why they lost. They lost to a team that was better all-around including at QB.

If you want to hypothesize some "lost ring" because of two dropped passes early in this outing or that Eli didn't have time to make up for it or even score a point in the 4thQTR then you are on drugs. Was every single play in the game directly impacted back to these dropped passes? They lost 38-13 and the offense did about what they normally did back then, not score much.


Actually, no - GB was not "better all around"

The Giants defense was better in 2016 and it wasn't even that close. GB had a bottom 3rd unit and ours was top 5. Unless we're going to move the goalposts to make it just about the one game and ignore everything else.

And no one is hypothesizing a "lost ring" - please don't complain about arguments that go nowhere if you're going to constantly use straw men and sarcasm as an argumentative tactic. It's transparent garbage.
Probably time  
crick n NC : 2/9/2019 4:33 pm : link
For everyone to move on from this thread
Gave up 38 points  
Jimmy Googs : 2/9/2019 4:48 pm : link
so seems like that someone found a few flaws in that Defense.

They had nice momentum in second half of the season but when a real QB like Rodgers was facing them...they were exposed.

But hey lets focus on what matters...
How bout  
OC2.0 : 2/11/2019 4:16 pm : link
this: If McAdoo wasn't such an assclown we'd have found out what Lalitta could do & maybe this would've not be an issue of taking in the 1st rd.
RE: How bout  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/11/2019 4:20 pm : link
In comment 14293609 OC2.0 said:
Quote:
this: If McAdoo wasn't such an assclown we'd have found out what Lalitta could do & maybe this would've not be an issue of taking in the 1st rd.

That's an interesting POV, especially since Lauletta wasn't on the team until six months after McAdoo was fired.
RE: RE: How bout  
bw in dc : 2/11/2019 4:29 pm : link
In comment 14293612 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14293609 OC2.0 said:


Quote:


this: If McAdoo wasn't such an assclown we'd have found out what Lalitta could do & maybe this would've not be an issue of taking in the 1st rd.


That's an interesting POV, especially since Lauletta wasn't on the team until six months after McAdoo was fired.


He means Lalitta. The QB on the practice squad from Gupton-Jones College of Funeral Service.

Usually you know our roster very well... ;)
I hate this thread  
djm : 2/11/2019 11:52 pm : link
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