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| There seems to be a very good chance that they'll take one with the sixth pick of the draft where quarterbacks like Ohio State's Dwayne Haskins, Missouri's Drew Lock, Duke's Daniel Jones and maybe even Oklahoma's Kyler Murray are possible options. Several others, like West Virginia's Will Grier, could be options on Day 2. The Giants could also use their second-round pick to trade back into the first round if one of those top-tier quarterbacks slips farther than they expect. So their options are open, but they do seem more serious about finding Manning's heir apparent than they were at this time last year. Manning, as SNY has been reporting, is expected to return as the starter for the 2019 season. But the Giants are hopeful that right behind him on the depth chart his eventual successor will be on board. |
And I am okay potentially trying out another seat warmer even if it might be riskier from a win/loss perspective, especially if we plan to aggressively pursue a QB in this draft.
And I think there something to spreading the cap money differently.
And by the way...this team needs to move onto its next phase and next generation of players.
Imv...
Knowing the offense and players has value.
No stop gap that comes in for ballpark pay has any of that.
In terms of personnel, cutting Eli should be at the top of the priority list. Just behind him should be cutting Vernon, Jenkins, and Ogeltree. Cutting those four underperforming contacts would add $41M in cap space. That would get the Giants up to $69M in cap space, and allow them a better opportunity to rethink how they want to approach their cap allocation philosophy.
Not a very productive plan, IMO. I’m fine cutting any or all of them but there’s a lot of missing info there. And if you are cutting all 4 you run to risk of punting the season which may be what you want but it isn’t how business is generally ran.
Perhaps... but a lot of these guys in there now were kids when Manning hit Tyree in SB 42. They watched it on tv just like we did. Now they’re playing with the guy. Then teens in 2011. Watching on tv and dreaming... You don’t think that carries weight?
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but you are reaching as to his influence in the lockerroom. You know he’s not...hence the moronic move to bring Stewart in here.
Perhaps... but a lot of these guys in there now were kids when Manning hit Tyree in SB 42. They watched it on tv just like we did. Now they’re playing with the guy. Then teens in 2011. Watching on tv and dreaming... You don’t think that carries weight?
I know you won’t agree. But that... right there. This is why you are so biased...you simply cannot let go.
Lord...
Not a very productive plan, IMO. I’m fine cutting any or all of them but there’s a lot of missing info there. And if you are cutting all 4 you run to risk of punting the season which may be what you want but it isn’t how business is generally ran.
Dead cap is $26M. I'm accessing Spotrac on my phone though, so I may be missing something. That's a sunk cost though...the cost of past mistakes. But better to cut bait now than to continue overpaying these four mistakes.
With that much cap space you could sign plenty of second and third tier FAs to support the draft picks and provide depth, especially along both lines. And by avoiding the premium FA market you minimize dead money later because you aren't giving out huge deals to begin with. I think your better off signing more cheaper FAs than a couple expensive FAs.
Talk about a broken freaking record.
Many fans don’t think that. The result is the same, but they are selling playoffs. But no longer selling playoffs you have to deal with what that brings. To me I’m game, doesn’t matter if we suck again, but the giants don’t care about me since I don’t go to games.
Not sure how the Giants are supposed to improve if our plan is to keep cutting loose any guy on the defensive side of the ball who is remotely decent.
Yeah, Vernon's contract sucks. But I'd consider hanging onto him for one more year. I don't think Jenkins' is terrible. He was better later in the year and we are starved for DB depth. Getting rid of these guys will make it so that there are more holes than we have assets again and the team will certainly suck.
Will it be okay that we suck next year if we do that? Or will you guys then lobby for the coach and GM to be fired because of another sunk season?
I can't figure out if people want to win now, or play a long-game where we spend a couple of years building back up with the assumption that it will take some time. It seems like some of these strategies are spitting in the face of one another.
Talk about a broken freaking record.
Hey, its Mr. doesn’t matter...
Isn't waiting until the team is better before addressing QB basically walking ourselves right into Gettleman's definition of QB hell? Isn't that precisely how you end up in a perpetual state of 8-8?
It’s a very tough spot.
Not sure how the Giants are supposed to improve if our plan is to keep cutting loose any guy on the defensive side of the ball who is remotely decent.
Yeah, Vernon's contract sucks. But I'd consider hanging onto him for one more year. I don't think Jenkins' is terrible. He was better later in the year and we are starved for DB depth. Getting rid of these guys will make it so that there are more holes than we have assets again and the team will certainly suck.
Will it be okay that we suck next year if we do that? Or will you guys then lobby for the coach and GM to be fired because of another sunk season?
I can't figure out if people want to win now, or play a long-game where we spend a couple of years building back up with the assumption that it will take some time. It seems like some of these strategies are spitting in the face of one another.
If Gettleman made these moves he'd absolutely get more slack from me. But he hasn't. He doubled down by paying Beckham and Solder, and one year in those both look like stupid contracts.
Better start winning.
It’s a very tough spot.
Morale was great last year and they won 5 games.
Populate this roster with cheap players hungry to get paid, and see how much their morale is impacted because a dipshit "leader" like Jackrabbit isn't there anymore.
It’s a very tough spot.
I've made similar points many times. It's a hard sell to players to basically tell them you're giving up on your next campaign before it starts.
For a guy like Barkley, I think that sucks. You enter your 2nd NFL season and your team basically says they aren't interested in trying to win yet because they want to clear cap space for later.
That doesn't mean we should make short-sighted moves, but I don't think we need to punt an entire season to get better.
Obviously the Vernon contract hasn't panned out and he's overpaid - but he's not an awful player. He's just being paid like a great one and isn't a great one.
While we're trying to incorporate more defensive talent, I think it's not the worst idea to keep him for one more season, and then cut him in 2020 when the dead cap hit is halved and we save 15M.
I would keep Jenkins too. We don't know what Beal is yet and we have virtually nothing behind him. Apple was traded.
If people want to see an even worse defense than last year, then sure - let's get rid of all these guys. But then don't blame the coach that the team isn't winning games if you keep taking good players away from him or expect the team to get any better until we can infuse more talent.
And while that’s being somewhat sarcastic...it’s not all sarcastic.
I don't think you build a team based on how players feel, but if you think players are going to be okay with their franchise effectively telling them that they don't care to try and win games before a season starts, I'm not sure what to tell you - they won't be okay with it. Barkley won't be okay with it, Beckham won't be okay with it... and they shouldn't be. They're competitors and they want to win. If their superiors are sending the message to them that they don't, things will get ugly quickly.
Then what - just get rid of everyone who isn't on board and go into the season with 15 players?
It will create all sorts of distrust, grumbling, and players wanting to get out of here.
I cannot emphasize that enough.
What some of you guys want are things that teams just don't do. It's not Madden.
Which would u try to get players to subscribe to?
You realize your opinion isn’t fact, right? I’m not suggesting making personnel moves to appease players. I’m suggesting that purposely putting a weaker roster on the field won’t sit well with the players and much of the fan base.
Separating your personal opinion is necessary for this kind of conversation.
These guys shouldn't be happy. And if they're too stupid to understand that a 5-11 record is going to cost people their jobs, that's on them.
Beckham especially... Why should we care if he's happy? He's done nothing here but lose, and hasn't had a big season in two years. If he's unhappy he should take a look at his bank statements and be happy his boss was stupid enough to pay him.
Which would u try to get players to subscribe to?
Players know they can have very short careers. None of them want to be told to hang tight while a team wastes valuable years of their prime "fixing the team" and not trying to win.
If the Giants go with a plan where they deliberately eliminate most of the remaining talent on the roster in the name of cap space, I can promise you it will not sit well in the locker room and we'll have another 2017 where the product on the field is awful and everyone is grumbling and unhappy behind the scenes.
If your goal is for the Giants to become an even bigger mess - that's a good way to do it.
We can build from here. We don't need to tear more down and take another step back first.
No, you don't get it. The roster is weak in huge part because these guys are on it. Eli, Vernon, Jenkins, Ogeltree...they hurt the team in that they both underperforming and prevent the team from adding other players.
So I won’t...
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it’s cool, don’t feel like arguing about it.
No, you don't get it. The roster is weak in huge part because these guys are on it. Eli, Vernon, Jenkins, Ogeltree...they hurt the team in that they both underperforming and prevent the team from adding other players.
Yeah I’m not arguing that, but carry on.
So I won’t...
Thanks for yet another tremendous display of football acumen.
At least you got your ellipses in there!
That’s what you tell folks...
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In comment 14291382 UConn4523 said:
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it’s cool, don’t feel like arguing about it.
No, you don't get it. The roster is weak in huge part because these guys are on it. Eli, Vernon, Jenkins, Ogeltree...they hurt the team in that they both underperforming and prevent the team from adding other players.
Yeah I’m not arguing that, but carry on.
We'll explain it to me, because I'm reading this like you're saying we maybe shouldn't cut our bad contracts because it could upset the locker room. Do I have that right, at least? Because if I do, I feel like I'm losing my mind. What's the worst the unhappy locker room can do, play like shit and go 5-11? They already did that.
And arc being concerned about upsetting Beckham is hilarious a year after we paid him on the held of a season lost to injury. The guy's legacy to date is a boat trip, and the front office is supposed to consider his feelings on personnel moves? A year after they paid him and he then motherfucked them on TV?
It's no wonder this team is a mess. This is the culture of the team.
But we sat out a draft on the level of 83 or 04? That is based on absolutely nothing so far.
Meanwhile if our guy strings together a bunch of seasons like his Rollie year all he’ll do is go to the HOF.
Barkley may go to the HOF, but the Giants aren't winning anything without a front line quarterback. And with a front line qb, they can win with any half decent RB. I would have taken Allen over Barkley and I still think Allen was the better choice. The next 4-5 years will tell.
That's Beckham's legacy?? Not the record setting start to his career?
Let me guess, Randy Moss's legacy is smashing a cop onto the hood of a car?
But since we're on Beckham as usual... he signed here because he wants to win here. He's said it a billion times.
He didn't sign this contract so that the Giants could punt away the prime of his career.
The Giants can improve without needing to gut every single remaining bit of talent that wasn't just drafted in 2018.
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to some on BBI and yet pre-draft most here didn’t want to touch 2 of those guys with a ten foot pole (Allen and Jackson), the other guy went before our pick and is a totally moot point (Mayfield) and the other two guys were thoroughly mediocre and/or missed time due to injury and can be firmly placed in the “We’ll see” category at this point.
But we sat out a draft on the level of 83 or 04? That is based on absolutely nothing so far.
Meanwhile if our guy strings together a bunch of seasons like his Rollie year all he’ll do is go to the HOF.
Barkley may go to the HOF, but the Giants aren't winning anything without a front line quarterback. And with a front line qb, they can win with any half decent RB. I would have taken Allen over Barkley and I still think Allen was the better choice. The next 4-5 years will tell.
Thank god you're not the GM - I've heard you spout this moronic take about 10 different times now.
Josh Allen sucks.
Thank god you're not the GM - I've heard you spout this moronic take about 10 different times now.
Josh Allen sucks.
I agree 100% with you on Allen. Poor Bills. :>(
The good teams know you can't protect yourself against all the variables.
What you can do is invest wisely, prioritize, and be aggressively self aware.
The single factor between Ernie Accorsi being the butt of a hair joke and the elder statesman of NFL management was understanding the window had closed for the 2000 Super Bowl team.
It wasn't so much picking Manning. It was not picking Robert Gallery. He didn't cling to the fleeting hope he could squeeze something out of something that was gone. Collins 31 mind you.
The Giants incontrovertibly haven't invested their cap wisely (~60% in 6 players), haven't succeeded in building a pipeline of depth, and to this point been wise enough to build around a new focal point at QB.
QB is an outsized factor on a team by design. Maybe more than the head coach and GM, an NFL team is who their QB is.
Accorsi knew this, and it made all the difference. Maybe the Giants can eek out a playoff appearance with what Manning has left.
But does anyone see a championship?
Tyrod Taylor just came off of a 2 year $30 million deal with half guaranteed, and he sucks. So who are we getting for cheaper than that while also absorbing Eli’s dead cap?
Fitz, schaubb or mccown
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but you can’t ignore what Eli is owed because his dead cap hit + what we’d pay a vet will be and even bigger waste of money.
Tyrod Taylor just came off of a 2 year $30 million deal with half guaranteed, and he sucks. So who are we getting for cheaper than that while also absorbing Eli’s dead cap?
Fitz, schaubb or mccown
Great, going to be funny around here with Fitzmagic throwing picks for $8-10m + Eli’s dead cap. Again, what’s the point?
There’s only 2 ways to do this. Cut Eli and go with a rookie or keep Eli and let the rookie sit. Eli’s dead cap makes another “stopgap” even more costly.
QB is an outsized factor on a team by design. Maybe more than the head coach and GM, an NFL team is who their QB is.
Accorsi knew this, and it made all the difference. Maybe the Giants can eek out a playoff appearance with what Manning has left.
But does anyone see a championship?
Exactly. This is the right question to ask. It’s something I’ve said repeatedly - if you can’t build a rational case to win a SB with Eli, at this age and point in his career, there is simply no reason to keep him.
Keeping him wastes time for the team and the next QB to develop with each other.
And short of renegotiating a too-good-to-be true cap friendly contract with Eli, his cap savings are material and important to reinvest in other players/positions.