It's believed Sixto Sanchez and Jorge Alfaro will both be involved. Love to bang on Jeter and we'll see the final outcome but to land those 2 (at minimum), the Marlins did a great job after all the mocking.
for this package to be any different than the type they got last year, that they instantly regretted, the 3rd piece is going to have to be real strong.
Here's an article from Martino pointing out the obvious - the Marlins were out of their minds with the asking price in December and now they're going to end up with a far lesser deal than what the Mets would have been willing to do then. The Marlins overplayed their hand with Mets, J.T. Realmuto - ( New Window )
RE: It looks to me like they didn't learn much from Yelich last year
for this package to be any different than the type they got last year, that they instantly regretted, the 3rd piece is going to have to be real strong.
Here's an article from Martino pointing out the obvious - the Marlins were out of their minds with the asking price in December and now they're going to end up with a far lesser deal than what the Mets would have been willing to do then. The Marlins overplayed their hand with Mets, J.T. Realmuto - ( New Window )
So Wilson Ramos, d'Arnaud, AND Mesoraco? Perhaps this works itself out in the spring, both Ramos and d'Arnaud struggle with staying on the field, so I kind of like this as a depth move, but I doubt all three can be on the 25-man to break the spring.
and he has five years of control. Sanchez is a lotto ticket, to be sure, but the upside is legit ace potential. We'll see what the third and maybe fourth pieces are. Unless the third piece is a scrub, it's a pretty good deal.
Cespedes is gonna go 60 day DL, TDA will almost def stay in FL
Should be an open and legit camp battle IMO. Neither of the two has done enough to be guaranteed to break camp with the team. Let's see who comes into camp in better shape and has a better spring.
Love having depth and internal competition in the organization.
RE: Alfaro is probably an above average catcher right now...
and he has five years of control. Sanchez is a lotto ticket, to be sure, but the upside is legit ace potential. We'll see what the third and maybe fourth pieces are. Unless the third piece is a scrub, it's a pretty good deal.
I'd imagine opinions will be all over the place re: Alfaro bc there's still a lot of volatility in what he becomes, but I personally think at this point even considering him an average starting C would be a generous assessment. He's K'd over 33% of the time as a major leaguer and was below league average as a hitter last year even with a .407 babip. Steamer projects him to be worth less than 1 win next season and I believe Zips had him even lower (both lower than Kevin Plawecki for context). There are tools to dream on, but he is no "get" for Miami imo.
for this package to be any different than the type they got last year, that they instantly regretted, the 3rd piece is going to have to be real strong.
Here's an article from Martino pointing out the obvious - the Marlins were out of their minds with the asking price in December and now they're going to end up with a far lesser deal than what the Mets would have been willing to do then. The Marlins overplayed their hand with Mets, J.T. Realmuto - ( New Window )
Lol, nice article
forgetting hindsight 20/20, the marlins being insane, and all the other aspects of what really happened - would you have preferred trading for Realmuto over Diaz assuming the prospect price ends up similar? I know you weren't a fan of Ramos until he wow'd them.
I'm not a Realmuto truther but I think i'd have preferred trading for him over Diaz even with less years of control. Both positions had good value options in FA so neither would have opened a hole, so just a matter of preference I guess.
Joel Sherman
Verified account @Joelsherman1
5s6 seconds ago
#Phillies wanted to do Realmuto deal without touching their 4 best position prospects: Bohm, Haseley, Moniak, Luis Garcia and succeeded. Big key for them.
Phillies get the best catcher in baseball, no top 4 prospects. Mets get a 35 yr old, recently suspended 2B, signed to an awful long-term contract and a closer and it costs their top 2 prospects.
Why? because the Mets had to unload players like Bruce and Swarzak to make it happen plus get money back.
Not turning this into a Mets thread, just demonstrating how money impacts these transactions some times. Phillies GM says "we're going to spend crazy money this off-season" or something like that, and Mets FO says we're going to do our best to remain payroll neutral.
PJ they gave up their #1 prospect - he's just a pitcher
though he also had to get shut down last year for elbow inflammation and subsequently had a setback during fall league.
I'm reminded of the trade the mets made last year for a high upside SP who ended up needing TJS this offseason. Oh yeah, that was a deal with the phillies too.
And lost. I was under the impression third piece,guess that was wrong. I like A,faro as a good player. Not big on Sixto. But Marlins screwed up, had zero intention of showing up to Ps&Cs with Realmuto, so did as could have been expected. I know a lot of people are very high on Sixto, so...
But greed kills. Mets offers were better, IMO. As were others. Shouldnt have pissed off the Astros either, who I thought for sure were the match. Oh well, fuck the Marlins.
And lost. I was under the impression third piece,guess that was wrong. I like A,faro as a good player. Not big on Sixto. But Marlins screwed up, had zero intention of showing up to Ps&Cs with Realmuto, so did as could have been expected. I know a lot of people are very high on Sixto, so...
But greed kills. Mets offers were better, IMO. As were others. Shouldnt have pissed off the Astros either, who I thought for sure were the match. Oh well, fuck the Marlins.
This was such a predictable trainwreck of a strategy. Good news is they won't have to go through it again next year since the don't have anyone else good enough to be "next year's yelich/realmuto/ozuna/stanton" debacle. After all the BS met rumors I'm glad they got screwed, just not by someone in our division.
Is I think he will have a HUGE breakout year (for him at least) in that ballpark. Hope he doesnt sign an extension that he desperately wants yet. Coming off this market and before a breakout season, Phils could get a huge value of a contract today. THAT would trade a steal regardless of what Sixto becomes.
though he also had to get shut down last year for elbow inflammation and subsequently had a setback during fall league.
I'm reminded of the trade the mets made last year for a high upside SP who ended up needing TJS this offseason. Oh yeah, that was a deal with the phillies too.
thanks, I missed that "position player" in prospects, same point though. Phillies gave up less for the best catcher in baseball, cost controlled for 2 years, than the Mets did to "take Cano and his contract off the hands of the Mariners".
my point remains, if the Mets didn't have to deal Bruce and Swarzak they could have gotten Cano and Diaz for much less.
but the two headliners I like just fine. Yeah Alfaro's K rate too high, BB rate too low, but there's no reason he can't improve. Huge arm. Sanchez is a lotto ticket, but if (IF) he stays healthy he has ace ceiling and would have headliner trade value. Seems like they're taking the Braves approach of stockpiling big upside arms, though the Braves seem to have better development personnel and a number of those arms had polish to go with the stuff. The Marlins went from having an awful farm system to having one that probably should rank smack dab in the middle, and they're on the way up.
Is I think he will have a HUGE breakout year (for him at least) in that ballpark. Hope he doesnt sign an extension that he desperately wants yet. Coming off this market and before a breakout season, Phils could get a huge value of a contract today. THAT would trade a steal regardless of what Sixto becomes.
Yea in that ballpark Realmuto has massive massive potential - especially if they also put someone like Harper or Machado in the lineup with him. His road OPS over the last 3 years has been .890. Playing at CBP that may become his norm.
Might end up enticing Harper, Keuchel, and Kimbrel to go to Philly
though he also had to get shut down last year for elbow inflammation and subsequently had a setback during fall league.
I'm reminded of the trade the mets made last year for a high upside SP who ended up needing TJS this offseason. Oh yeah, that was a deal with the phillies too.
thanks, I missed that "position player" in prospects, same point though. Phillies gave up less for the best catcher in baseball, cost controlled for 2 years, than the Mets did to "take Cano and his contract off the hands of the Mariners".
my point remains, if the Mets didn't have to deal Bruce and Swarzak they could have gotten Cano and Diaz for much less.
and that is frustrating as a fan.
No disagreement here. Even ignoring the Cano salary swap side, I think we gave up as much talent for Diaz.
I really didn't think Miami could undersell Realmuto more than they did with Yelich but I was wrong. I knew there was almost no way they'd risk carrying him into the season but at this price they may as well have carried him to the deadline.
the winning group didn't have as much money behind them as most owners, the revenue streams were modest, and they had no farm system to speak of. Losing Fernandez stung, but the real problem was the sale.
but the two headliners I like just fine. Yeah Alfaro's K rate too high, BB rate too low, but there's no reason he can't improve. Huge arm. Sanchez is a lotto ticket, but if (IF) he stays healthy he has ace ceiling and would have headliner trade value. Seems like they're taking the Braves approach of stockpiling big upside arms, though the Braves seem to have better development personnel and a number of those arms had polish to go with the stuff. The Marlins went from having an awful farm system to having one that probably should rank smack dab in the middle, and they're on the way up.
They haven't exactly stockpiled. They've got Alcantara and now they got Sanchez 2-3 years behind him in the system, and that's if everything goes very well. Their system is still going to be at best middle of the pack after this trade and they have nothing left to trade at the big league level.
In the past 14 months they have traded away more young cost controlled players than any team since...they themselves traded away Cabrera & Beckett. This time they traded away even more talent than they did then, and I'd bet pretty confidently they didn't get back a Hanley Ramirez.
the winning group didn't have as much money behind them as most owners, the revenue streams were modest, and they had no farm system to speak of. Losing Fernandez stung, but the real problem was the sale.
Should have sold to Kushner. I wonder if that would have been a conflict of interest of some type. Didn't W own the Rangers while his father was president?
all of whose stocks are sliding right now, but all of whom had (and have) high upside.
Garrett and Rogers were both drafted before the sale and not sure how hard either throws, but I was talking about their strategy (or complete lack of) through the process of the dumpage of all their talent. I see what you're saying in that Guzman, Alcantara, and Sanchez all fit the high velocity lotto ticket profile, but I still think that's an unbelievably weak return for what they gave up. Certainly nowhere near what Atlanta was able to stockpile selling up far lesser MLB talent.
I get that Stanton required a reckoning with the money, that Brinson was a gamble that simply hasn't paid off and that nobody quite expected Yelich to be THIS good, but you would expect significant improvement on the farm if you trade four All Stars. Heck, the Yankees sold two relievers (one for three months) and a couple aging veterans and got significantly more in return.
he is small and has had neck/shoulder and elbow issues already .. of course Philly downplayed the injuries and we were all gonna see the real Sixto in the Arizona Fall League and then they pulled him from that after missing the last half of the last half of the season as a "precaution" , yet he has been mentioned in every deal with them .. I think they know something...
Realmuto's .653 OPS and 0 HRs against the Mets last year are going to the Phils.
In 52 PAs past year against Mets, he was a non-factor. There is no hand-wringing here
A division rival acquires the best catcher in baseball and its no big deal because of a 52 at bat sample size? If the Mets acquired Realmuto without giving up MLB ready players then you would be ecstatic. This is not good for either of our teams.
Realmuto don't scare me that much. If they add Harper, they become scarier. But they still wouldn't be as good as the Nats assortment of talent the last few years. Their bullpen and rotation are not in the same stratosphere as the Mets.
If the Phillies add Harper they're on par with the Brave's lineup
and a major threat for the division. Just having Nola probably pushes them past the Braves and up to the level of Mets/Nats. The over/under for wins Realmuto/Harper would be worth has to be north of 10. And that number is being added to a team that won 80 last year and was already projected to improve.
Both those teams are behind the Mets/Nats pitching staffs but it won't make the division any less of a bloodbath in the regular season.
If the Phillies go nuts and add some combo of Harper + Keuchel + Kimbrel they'd have a legitimate claim as division favorites.
underrated. Nick Pivetta looks poised for a Wheeler type of breakout this year. Any of you dudes who play fantasy baseball, draft Pivetta as a breakout/sleeper.
Hernandez
Segura
Harper
Hoskins
Realmuto
Franco (if they dont get Moose or Machado)
McCutchen
Quinn/Herrera
Thats pretty nasty.
It is. I still like Atlanta's a little bit better, especially if you factor in defense too, but it's close. In that ballpark Philly would probably score more.
Don't forget there were rumors that they asked about Joc Pederson too
underrated. Nick Pivetta looks poised for a Wheeler type of breakout this year. Any of you dudes who play fantasy baseball, draft Pivetta as a breakout/sleeper.
Their rotation isn't bad but I don't love the BP. Robertson is a little prone to home runs so not sure he was the best fit for them.
I think the Mets have best BP and tied with Nats for best rotation, but probably weakest every day lineup at the moment. Or at least most dependent on needing a few career years.
Braves have the best lineup but weakest pitching staff.
Phillies don't currently have the best anything, but they're within range in all areas so it aill depends on what other big moves they make. If they add Kimbrel they could have a better BP than the Mets. If they add Harper their lineup is up their with the Braves. Keuchel probably still doesn't give them a better rotation than Mets/Nats, but it sure helps.
Nats are the most well rounded. They have 3 legitimate everyday stars to carry their lineup, 3 legitimate cy young candidates to carry their rotation, and a BP that should be good enough in the regular season.
Robertson
Dominguez
Neshek
Morgan (he can either be great or awful)
Arano
Hunter
Alverez
is actually pretty deep and versatile.
Yeah I just don't love the Robertson fit. Love him as the #2/3 guy in the pen, not as comfortable with him as the #1/2. If Dominguez continues improving it's less of a worry, but between his slight tendency with the long ball and having to step into a more prominent role, I think there's a little risk of underperformance there.
Yeah I just don't love the Robertson fit. Love him as the #2/3 guy in the pen, not as comfortable with him as the #1/2. If Dominguez continues improving it's less of a worry, but between his slight tendency with the long ball and having to step into a more prominent role, I think there's a little risk of underperformance there.
Arano is the guy that I think takes the next step. Anthony has the stuff to dominate but Arano has more of a bulldog mentality and he was reaching in the upper 90s last year. I am expecting him to be a big time reliever this year.
Here's an article from Martino pointing out the obvious - the Marlins were out of their minds with the asking price in December and now they're going to end up with a far lesser deal than what the Mets would have been willing to do then.
The Marlins overplayed their hand with Mets, J.T. Realmuto - ( New Window )
Here's an article from Martino pointing out the obvious - the Marlins were out of their minds with the asking price in December and now they're going to end up with a far lesser deal than what the Mets would have been willing to do then. The Marlins overplayed their hand with Mets, J.T. Realmuto - ( New Window )
Lol, nice article
Should be an open and legit camp battle IMO. Neither of the two has done enough to be guaranteed to break camp with the team. Let's see who comes into camp in better shape and has a better spring.
Love having depth and internal competition in the organization.
I'd imagine opinions will be all over the place re: Alfaro bc there's still a lot of volatility in what he becomes, but I personally think at this point even considering him an average starting C would be a generous assessment. He's K'd over 33% of the time as a major leaguer and was below league average as a hitter last year even with a .407 babip. Steamer projects him to be worth less than 1 win next season and I believe Zips had him even lower (both lower than Kevin Plawecki for context). There are tools to dream on, but he is no "get" for Miami imo.
Alfraro, Sanchez, Will Stewart (non prospect) and international bonus slot.
Quote:
for this package to be any different than the type they got last year, that they instantly regretted, the 3rd piece is going to have to be real strong.
Here's an article from Martino pointing out the obvious - the Marlins were out of their minds with the asking price in December and now they're going to end up with a far lesser deal than what the Mets would have been willing to do then. The Marlins overplayed their hand with Mets, J.T. Realmuto - ( New Window )
Lol, nice article
forgetting hindsight 20/20, the marlins being insane, and all the other aspects of what really happened - would you have preferred trading for Realmuto over Diaz assuming the prospect price ends up similar? I know you weren't a fan of Ramos until he wow'd them.
I'm not a Realmuto truther but I think i'd have preferred trading for him over Diaz even with less years of control. Both positions had good value options in FA so neither would have opened a hole, so just a matter of preference I guess.
Alfraro, Sanchez, Will Stewart (non prospect) and international bonus slot.
Wow. I think the phillies just robbed the Marlins worse than Milwaukee last year. Great move for Philly.
Joel Sherman
Verified account @Joelsherman1
5s6 seconds ago
#Phillies wanted to do Realmuto deal without touching their 4 best position prospects: Bohm, Haseley, Moniak, Luis Garcia and succeeded. Big key for them.
Phillies get the best catcher in baseball, no top 4 prospects. Mets get a 35 yr old, recently suspended 2B, signed to an awful long-term contract and a closer and it costs their top 2 prospects.
Why? because the Mets had to unload players like Bruce and Swarzak to make it happen plus get money back.
Not turning this into a Mets thread, just demonstrating how money impacts these transactions some times. Phillies GM says "we're going to spend crazy money this off-season" or something like that, and Mets FO says we're going to do our best to remain payroll neutral.
I'm reminded of the trade the mets made last year for a high upside SP who ended up needing TJS this offseason. Oh yeah, that was a deal with the phillies too.
But greed kills. Mets offers were better, IMO. As were others. Shouldnt have pissed off the Astros either, who I thought for sure were the match. Oh well, fuck the Marlins.
But greed kills. Mets offers were better, IMO. As were others. Shouldnt have pissed off the Astros either, who I thought for sure were the match. Oh well, fuck the Marlins.
This was such a predictable trainwreck of a strategy. Good news is they won't have to go through it again next year since the don't have anyone else good enough to be "next year's yelich/realmuto/ozuna/stanton" debacle. After all the BS met rumors I'm glad they got screwed, just not by someone in our division.
This could be a terrible trade for Miami if Sanchez ultimately has Tommy John
I would not have traded for him
I'm reminded of the trade the mets made last year for a high upside SP who ended up needing TJS this offseason. Oh yeah, that was a deal with the phillies too.
thanks, I missed that "position player" in prospects, same point though. Phillies gave up less for the best catcher in baseball, cost controlled for 2 years, than the Mets did to "take Cano and his contract off the hands of the Mariners".
my point remains, if the Mets didn't have to deal Bruce and Swarzak they could have gotten Cano and Diaz for much less.
and that is frustrating as a fan.
Yea in that ballpark Realmuto has massive massive potential - especially if they also put someone like Harper or Machado in the lineup with him. His road OPS over the last 3 years has been .890. Playing at CBP that may become his norm.
Quote:
though he also had to get shut down last year for elbow inflammation and subsequently had a setback during fall league.
I'm reminded of the trade the mets made last year for a high upside SP who ended up needing TJS this offseason. Oh yeah, that was a deal with the phillies too.
thanks, I missed that "position player" in prospects, same point though. Phillies gave up less for the best catcher in baseball, cost controlled for 2 years, than the Mets did to "take Cano and his contract off the hands of the Mariners".
my point remains, if the Mets didn't have to deal Bruce and Swarzak they could have gotten Cano and Diaz for much less.
and that is frustrating as a fan.
No disagreement here. Even ignoring the Cano salary swap side, I think we gave up as much talent for Diaz.
I really didn't think Miami could undersell Realmuto more than they did with Yelich but I was wrong. I knew there was almost no way they'd risk carrying him into the season but at this price they may as well have carried him to the deadline.
it's almost all self-inflicted, other than Fernandez.
They haven't exactly stockpiled. They've got Alcantara and now they got Sanchez 2-3 years behind him in the system, and that's if everything goes very well. Their system is still going to be at best middle of the pack after this trade and they have nothing left to trade at the big league level.
In the past 14 months they have traded away more young cost controlled players than any team since...they themselves traded away Cabrera & Beckett. This time they traded away even more talent than they did then, and I'd bet pretty confidently they didn't get back a Hanley Ramirez.
For Phillies I assume? That'd be a very logical follow-up move.
Should have sold to Kushner. I wonder if that would have been a conflict of interest of some type. Didn't W own the Rangers while his father was president?
Garrett and Rogers were both drafted before the sale and not sure how hard either throws, but I was talking about their strategy (or complete lack of) through the process of the dumpage of all their talent. I see what you're saying in that Guzman, Alcantara, and Sanchez all fit the high velocity lotto ticket profile, but I still think that's an unbelievably weak return for what they gave up. Certainly nowhere near what Atlanta was able to stockpile selling up far lesser MLB talent.
In 52 PAs past year against Mets, he was a non-factor. There is no hand-wringing here
In 52 PAs past year against Mets, he was a non-factor. There is no hand-wringing here
A division rival acquires the best catcher in baseball and its no big deal because of a 52 at bat sample size? If the Mets acquired Realmuto without giving up MLB ready players then you would be ecstatic. This is not good for either of our teams.
Both those teams are behind the Mets/Nats pitching staffs but it won't make the division any less of a bloodbath in the regular season.
If the Phillies go nuts and add some combo of Harper + Keuchel + Kimbrel they'd have a legitimate claim as division favorites.
Hernandez
Segura
Harper
Hoskins
Realmuto
Franco (if they dont get Moose or Machado)
McCutchen
Quinn/Herrera
Thats pretty nasty.
Hernandez
Segura
Harper
Hoskins
Realmuto
Franco (if they dont get Moose or Machado)
McCutchen
Quinn/Herrera
Thats pretty nasty.
It is. I still like Atlanta's a little bit better, especially if you factor in defense too, but it's close. In that ballpark Philly would probably score more.
Their rotation isn't bad but I don't love the BP. Robertson is a little prone to home runs so not sure he was the best fit for them.
I think the Mets have best BP and tied with Nats for best rotation, but probably weakest every day lineup at the moment. Or at least most dependent on needing a few career years.
Braves have the best lineup but weakest pitching staff.
Phillies don't currently have the best anything, but they're within range in all areas so it aill depends on what other big moves they make. If they add Kimbrel they could have a better BP than the Mets. If they add Harper their lineup is up their with the Braves. Keuchel probably still doesn't give them a better rotation than Mets/Nats, but it sure helps.
Nats are the most well rounded. They have 3 legitimate everyday stars to carry their lineup, 3 legitimate cy young candidates to carry their rotation, and a BP that should be good enough in the regular season.
Robertson
Dominguez
Neshek
Morgan (he can either be great or awful)
Arano
Hunter
Alverez
is actually pretty deep and versatile.
Sure going to be entertaining to see Mets play ATL/WSH/PHi for 50 or so games this year.
Yankees fans are complaining about being cheap, and should spend like the Sox
Robertson
Dominguez
Neshek
Morgan (he can either be great or awful)
Arano
Hunter
Alverez
is actually pretty deep and versatile.
Yeah I just don't love the Robertson fit. Love him as the #2/3 guy in the pen, not as comfortable with him as the #1/2. If Dominguez continues improving it's less of a worry, but between his slight tendency with the long ball and having to step into a more prominent role, I think there's a little risk of underperformance there.
Sure going to be entertaining to see Mets play ATL/WSH/PHi for 50 or so games this year.
Yea it's going to be messy. Fingers crossed Machado and Harper find teams in different divisions. And Keuchel. And Kimbrel.
Yeah I just don't love the Robertson fit. Love him as the #2/3 guy in the pen, not as comfortable with him as the #1/2. If Dominguez continues improving it's less of a worry, but between his slight tendency with the long ball and having to step into a more prominent role, I think there's a little risk of underperformance there.
Arano is the guy that I think takes the next step. Anthony has the stuff to dominate but Arano has more of a bulldog mentality and he was reaching in the upper 90s last year. I am expecting him to be a big time reliever this year.
Is Realmuto really that good? I looked at his stats...ehhhhh.
Just for comparison, I expected to see a Buster Posey type stat line from his hey day......
In fact, is he better than Posey?