NFL.com Releases Initial Draft Grades

In comment 14290858 dep026 said:

Quote:

into a draft a QB thread? lol, its like clockwork - because it happens every day.

Agree...it's very tiresome.

Can someone comment on the later rounds? Is it also considered weak for mid level prospects?

another year down the road on the QB...nice.

where we need alternate headings to say the same things


over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

and over again....

was a 6.04

Haskins is a 6.25. Yet some people here want absolutely nothing to do with Haskins?

I will trust the new Giants brass they got last years pick correct.

agree that no matter what the pre grades are for NFL.com...pretty much has nothing to do with how we are going to overall scout these players? Gettleman isn't sitting at the combine saying "ok so...hmmm Haskins is only a 6.25...interesting..."

They are taking the whole picture into account. Their background, work ethic, projection, leadership...all that stuff. Every site has different rankings, and most of the time, they are always incorrect. Plenty of guys outperform their projections, plenty of guys under perform. It's about taking a high ceiling/low floor player at the early picks who display the ability to be a pro bowl caliber player. If someone can explain to me why Haskins won't be a good NFL player...I'll gladly listen.

path with Daniel Jones. Can't see him anywhere near the first round.

Other things I found interesting...

Was it really important to include "Hollywood" for Marquis Brown?? I find that so bizarre...

Simmons at #3 makes a lot of sense. And he's correctly rated over Bosa, who I think is overrated.

Hockenson at #6 is a real stretch for me. He's got the goods for sure but hate TEs that high. Am curious to see what he runs in the forty.

Jacobs is getting the love I expected. That kid is the real deal at RB. Would not touch him that high - of course - but he is going to be a player.

In comment 14290871 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

was a 6.04 Haskins is a 6.25. Yet some people here want absolutely nothing to do with Haskins?

Thanks for this reminder that the rankings are (hopefully informed) opinions.

He's very interesting to me. Can play C, both G slots and RT. And he's got that surly attitude you like.

Very curious to see Sy's opinion on Riz.

would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside.

"most of the time, they are always incorrect"

You should be in politics. ;)

In comment 14290654 giants#1 said:

Quote:

Grades[/] 9.00-10 Once in a lifetime player 8.00-8.99 Perennial All-Pro 7.50-7.99 Future All-Pro 7.00-7.49 Pro Bowl-caliber Player 6.50-6.99 Chance to become Pro Bowl-Caliber Player 6.00-6.49 Should become instant starter 5.50-5.99 Chance to become NFL Starter 5.20-5.49 NFL backup or special teams potential 5.01-5.19 Better-than-average chance to make NFL roster 5.00 50/50 chance to make NFL roster 4.75-4.99 Should be in an NFL training camp 4.50-4.74 Chance to be in an NFL training camp No Grade Likely needs time in developmental league [u]Select 2018 Grades Barkley - 7.45 Darnold - 7.00 Rosen - 6.19 Mayfield - 6.04 Jackson - 5.91 Allen - 5.90 So NFL.com would have Haskins/Murray as the 2nd/3rd best QB prospects in last years draft. Drew Lock (6.05) would be about even with Mayfield and Daniel Jones (5.88) is roughly on par with Jackson/Allen.

So they were off on Mayfield.

In comment 14290905 jeff57 said:

Quote:

would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside.

At 6?

In comment 14290919 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 14290905 jeff57 said: Quote: would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside. At 6?

That's where they have him.

In comment 14290905 jeff57 said:

Quote:

would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside.

That would be a very dumb pick at #6.

Let's be honest...

Sounds like a very competent pro to me.

And the rankings, especially for QBs, will likely change after the Combine and team workouts.

I suspect that we'd have to trade up to land Haskins when all is said and done. Whether he ever pans out is a different story, but that's the draft, a crap shoot.

In comment 14290739 mdthedream said:

Quote:

is the most important player on the field and if the rating is close that puts the player in play esp a QB. To hope we get one next year of in the second round is crazy. If the Giants like him than they take the QB.

If you're not sold that one QB is better than another, and you think one or two will drop to the 2nd, then why not grab the top OT in the draft at #6 and whichever QB is left at #38? It makes great sense and provides value, again if you think that Haskins/Lock/Jones are roughly the same and that you would like to have each of them.

In comment 14290924 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 14290905 jeff57 said: Quote: would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside. That would be a very dumb pick at #6. Let's be honest...

Possibly. I don't know, if I could get another Travis Kelce or Jason Witten at 6, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

that we have to be careful about overvaluing the combine and that these rankings are great b/c it's based on performance from college football games...BUT...like dep pointed out with his boy from Michigan, some of these college schemes are built in such a way (maybe not on purpose) to make a player look better on tape or statistically b/c of what they are asked to do. That system may work in college, but NFL guys are looking for something more than that, NFL guys are looking for players that fit into their system, OR maybe that can play in multiple systems...which is why these draft boards fluctuate so much post combine.

totally agree with that. That is what the Chargers did when they selected Tomlinson and Brees in the second round. That worked out great.

.

In comment 14290923 jeff57 said:

Quote:

In comment 14290919 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 14290905 jeff57 said: Quote: would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside. At 6? That's where they have him.

So?? Not saying Hock isn't good. He's my top TE. But a TE sixth? I mean how did it work out for Kellen Winslow, Vernon Davis, Eric Ebron before he came to the Colts...

And with the amount of needs on this team, going with a TE would be insane

consider at 6 over Haskins would be Quennin Williams and Josh allen. Now they will probably be gone (Williams a near certainty to be gone) but if they were somehow still on the board at 6 and so was Haskins, it would be tough. Still think haskins is the guy though.

In comment 14290744 Zeke's Alibi said:

Quote:

see the QB's suck, but I guess they didn't realize that according to this they would have been number 2 and 3 QBs last year. Thanks for whoever posted last years numbers.

I was told I was nuts for even suggesting this. Gimme a break with last year’s class already. Some here make that class out to be absolutely irreplaceable. Bullshit!

that is not a QB. I expect us to go with Haskins or Lock at 6. For me the top 5 players I want at 6 are:
1. Allen
2. Haskins
3. lock
4. Ferrell
5. Sweat

If My top 3 are gone I can see DG going defense and then getting Stidham in round 2

These grades are trash.

and given that this franchise has been terrible at disguising their intentions, it seems like they're going to talk themselves into taking Haskins which would be a sure-fire trip to QB hell.

We should come away with 2 starters.

If we do not draft a QB

In comment 14291141 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

and given that this franchise has been terrible at disguising their intentions, it seems like they're going to talk themselves into taking Haskins which would be a sure-fire trip to QB hell.

Seeing as you insisted that Tim Tebow was a better QB than Cam Newton for years, I'm not sure you're qualified to make this sort of statement.

That may say something.

Would love to see an average of rankings as we get closer to the draft.

Reese is gone and I am at peace. I wish him well apart from us. That being said, I am comfortable picking at 6th in this draft. I would be much more nervous if Reese was still here because he had a history of never making trades and picking where ever we were predetermined. A recent bad result was Eli "Bad" Apple. Looking at the values posted here, they fall off a cliff after #4, Nick Bosa. Do I wish we had pick 5? You bet I do! We would be able to sell that pick for a ransom for either the top QB prospect, or the best available player who dropped due to a QB being picked. That being said, I believe Denver, D.C., or some other team will covet Murray, or Lock enough to trade at least a 2020 first to us to move up and get him....

2020 picks are the key to this draft. We need assets in that draft to move around and acquire our QB of the future.

workout numbers are going to mean less for players than ever before. With the type of data they are able to get, they now see actual speeds of players in pads on game day, far more important than a timed forty at a combine. Of course the strength explosion numbers are good to see, and you can answer questions about commitment particularly in the negative if someone shows up completely unprepared, but I think enough data is out there already about players' actual play speeds to make the workouts less impressive.

What is far more important will be the interviews, etc., and of course the back end of the draft where scouting info is not necessarily as available, particularly with players from the smaller schools.

And I agree with those who said that these numbers themselves, while interesting and spark discussion, are in no way a true evaluation of any individual team. They are not including all of the info a team will have when they make up their boards.

Barkley last year was graded 7.45 "maybe" a Pro Bowl Player.

The ratings are VERY conservative by #. Look up Aaron Donald or JJ Watt for example, did either of them break 7.0? Both back to back DPOY award winners, and the only 2 since LT to do that.

OBJ was rated 6.16

JJ Watt was rated 8.37, but they used the scale differently back then or in that particular year. I'll bet you find other guys at or around 8.0 that draft class, because they have not been historically consistent year to year re grade designations.

That's been pretty consistent since folks started making top nnn boards after the college season finished.

Tim won one Hypesman, probably should have won 2, did 2 NC's and was highly respected by his teammates and would willing sell out his body to make a yard.

SCAM aka Fig Newton on the other hand, well we saw that Super Bowl play now didn't we.

In comment 14290871 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

was a 6.04 Haskins is a 6.25. Yet some people here want absolutely nothing to do with Haskins?

I wanted/want nothing to do with either of them.

In comment 14290865 Samiam said:

Quote:

Can someone comment on the later rounds? Is it also considered weak for mid level prospects?

It's actually stronger than last year's draft. Only Barkley had a really high grade last year.

In comment 14291141 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

and given that this franchise has been terrible at disguising their intentions, it seems like they're going to talk themselves into taking Haskins which would be a sure-fire trip to QB hell.

What is it about Haskins that makes people think he's going to suck? Inexperience? He got progressively better as the year went on, finishing well against Michigan, Northwestern and Washington. Washington has an excellent defensive staff and NFL talent and he absolutely carved them up at times. He reads zone defenses very well for his age. His demeanor is AWESOME. Exactly what you want in a qb.

I'm not a Haskins homer either. He is by no means perfect. But he threw for 4,800 yards, 50 touchdowns and 8 picks on a 70 % completion percentage. What is the red flag with him that makes people think he is going to be terrible?

may or will clamor to the top of the draft to get one of the QB's, either Haskins or Murray, and will allow us to get one of the D-Linemen at 6, maybe even Quinnen Williams or Rashan Gary. Williams is the real deal, Gary was inconsistent but both have the skillset to become very good players.

In comment 14290871 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

was a 6.04 Haskins is a 6.25. Yet some people here want absolutely nothing to do with Haskins?

Good post. But think about it really; what does that info tell us? What do these assigned scores really mean? Can we say with any degree of confidence that Haskins is likely to be a better player than Mayfield? Or better than Lock? Or less good than Gary?

A list of numerically graded subjects can't be properly understood or sorted without knowing the confidence intervals associated with those numerical grades.

The comparison you made: that Haskins is rated 0.21 points higher than Mayfield, suggests to me that the 95% confidence interval (95% being the standard often used in stats analysis) is greater than 0.21. Possibly a good bit greater.

Whatever that confidence interval is, you can't properly say that prospect X is better than prospect Y just because he was scored n points higher than Y. You need to see that X-Y > N. (N being the numerical value of the confidence interval at P= 0.95)

And that's why players are in real-life graded on tiers. Which fact gets lost here every year by many of us simpleton football fans.

It's why you grab Saquon Barkley over your highest rated QB when the difference X-Y = 0.5 or some number far greater than the confidence interval N.

And also why, when you need a new replacement franchise QB, you pull the trigger on Haskins (graded 6.25) even though Gary at 6.37 is still on the board. Because Gary and Haskins are really on the same tier unless the difference between their scores is greater than confidence interval N.

People fail to understand this time and time again, and that's assuming all these scores are "correct", which is never really the case anyway.

Wondering if Polite has # 6 value?

In comment 14291330 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

Tim won one Hypesman, probably should have won 2, did 2 NC's and was highly respected by his teammates and would willing sell out his body to make a yard. SCAM aka Fig Newton on the other hand, well we saw that Super Bowl play now didn't we.

This is proof right here that people can convince themselves of anything.. Are you really arguing Tim Tebow is a better NFL QB then Cam Newton?

we see what they have done in college, pick is impacted by how coaches think they can develop the player in the pros.

this is SOOOOOOOO fucking dumb,


first off, how is Barkley only a pro bowl caliber? after he DOMINATED the combine and had a great college career. you would think he would have qualified for one of their highest two ranking tiers. the kid is a generational talent.

that being said, these rankings mean shit.

im still on the train of lets see the combine and how these guys measure and test.

In comment 14290623 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

or Jones at our 2nd round selection

I have been saying that since week 16. Giants need to shore up o line. You grab best tackle. Lock wont be there. Jones may or will grier. Id be okay with either . Grier has a cannon, arm strength cant be taught. Accuracy can and he needs a little work, shurmer be perfect. Dont waste a 1st round pick on a qb unless you trade up late 1st to grab jones, who has been linked to patriots in a few mocks.

In comment 14290871 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

was a 6.04 Haskins is a 6.25. Yet some people here want absolutely nothing to do with Haskins?

Haskins could be good but ohio state qbs dont fair well in NFL. That is a lot of peoples concern. Second, eli is our starter this year and maybe next. We cant do him any more dirty and we need to shore up right side o line. Williams could be our future LT when solder contract expires but for now as a RT he would take over for wheeler. Save the qb pick for next year or you grab the Jones, Grier, 2nd tier qbs, that may still be manageable.

In comment 14290883 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

agree that no matter what the pre grades are for NFL.com...pretty much has nothing to do with how we are going to overall scout these players? Gettleman isn't sitting at the combine saying "ok so...hmmm Haskins is only a 6.25...interesting..." They are taking the whole picture into account. Their background, work ethic, projection, leadership...all that stuff. Every site has different rankings, and most of the time, they are always incorrect. Plenty of guys outperform their projections, plenty of guys under perform. It's about taking a high ceiling/low floor player at the early picks who display the ability to be a pro bowl caliber player. If someone can explain to me why Haskins won't be a good NFL player...I'll gladly listen.

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/10/18/ohio-state-qbs-in-the-nfl/

Good reason

In comment 14290858 dep026 said:

Quote:

into a draft a QB thread? lol, its like clockwork - because it happens every day.

So what? While we know the oline and dline need major help as does FS and LB, they are more easily corrected. There is no doubt that QB is the one position that is hardest to find and with the 6th pick chances are better for getting that QB(if worthy) this year than next year when they will be picking in the teens with no chance of getting a QB. (with the oline fixed they will be 8-8 or better.)
You make it seem that QB is not a need or the need is grossly overrated. It is a major concern and whether Haskins or Lock is worthy of the #6 pick is huge question. I do not take Murray seriously because of size and baseball.