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NFL.com Releases Initial Draft Grades

mittenedman : 2/8/2019 9:22 am
Top 43:

1. DT Quennin Williams (6.70)
2. OLB Josh Allen (6.70)
3. DT Jeffery Simmons (6.62)
4. OLB Nick Bosa (6.52)
5. DT Rashan Gary (6.37)
6. TE T.J. Hockenson (6.35)
7. WR D.K. Metcalf (6.33)
8. OLB Montez Sweat (6.32)
9. RB Josh Jacobs (6.31)
10. LT Jonah Williams (6.30)
11. WR Marquise "Hollywood" Brown (6.29)
12. OLB Jochai Polite (6.27)
13. DT Ed Oliver (6.26)
14. QB Dwayne Haskins (6.25)
15. QB Kyler Murray (6.24)
16. CB Greedy Williams (6.21)
17. ILB Devin White (6.20)
18. LT Andre Dillard (6.19)
19. DT Dexter Lawrence (6.17)
20. CB DeAndre Baker (6.15)
21. RT Jawaan Taylor (6.14)
22. DE Clelin Ferrell (6.13)
23. DT Christian Wilkins (6.12)
24. DE Jaylon Ferguson (6.11)
25. RT/C Dalton Risner (6.10)
26. CB Julian Love (6.10)
27. RT/RG Cody Ford (6.09)
28. WR A.J. Brown (6.08)
29. RB Devin Singletary (6.07)
30. QB Drew Lock (6.05)
31. TE Irv Smith (6.04)
32. DT Jerry Tillery (6.03)

33. DT Dre'mont Jones (6.01)
34. ILB Devin Bush (5.99)
35. ILB Mack Wilson (5.98)
36. WR Deebo Samuel (5.96)
37. CB Byron Murphy (5.95)
38. LT Greg Little (5.95)
39. OLB Brian Burns (5.94)
40. SS Jonathan Abram (5.94)
41. SS Taylor Rapp (5.91)
42. RB David Montgomery (5.89)
43. QB Daniel Jones (5.88)


Key:

9.00-10 - Once-in-lifetime player
8.00-8.99 - Perennial All Pro
7.50-7.99 - Future All Pro
7.00-7.49 - Pro Bowl-calibre player
6.50-6.99 - Chance to become Pro Bowl-calibre player
6.00-6.49 - Should become instant starter
5.50-5.99 - Chance to become NFL starter


Given the key, doesn't seem like NFL.com thinks too highly of this draft class.
This is why you take the best player  
dep026 : 2/8/2019 9:27 am : link
and not worry about who is replacing who....

I must admit if Devin Bush lasts until the 2nd round.... the Giants should run to the podium. Him and Ogletree would be a great fit together.
So Haskins grades out as just a starter  
The_Boss : 2/8/2019 9:29 am : link
And is the 14th “best” prospect.
I said it another thread  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/8/2019 9:29 am : link
Barkley Chubb Ward Nelson are way better than the top of the draft this year. I think Haskins will end up going top 5 because those teams at the top will be looking to trade down because of the lack of real top end talent.
My ideal draft would be if the Giants end up with Josh Allen  
nyjuggernaut2 : 2/8/2019 9:29 am : link
but he won't be there at 6, which is why I'm starting to believe they use the pick on a QB. Just praying to God if they do draft a QB, it's a good one, and not some Christian Ponder type bust.
And it looks like a mediocre draft as a whole based on those numbers  
The_Boss : 2/8/2019 9:30 am : link
-
NFL.com draft grades  
UberAlias : 2/8/2019 9:33 am : link
Pre combine. So if they draft a QB, it was a reach... because NFL.com said so. Do I have it right?
I'd love to see Williams in the 1st at #6, and then hope for Lock  
PatersonPlank : 2/8/2019 9:35 am : link
or Jones at our 2nd round selection
Four guys that have a chance to be Pro Bowlers  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/8/2019 9:37 am : link
and only 29 that should be immediate starters. ? Ick.
I've been saying it looks like a weaker draft than we'd prefer  
JonC : 2/8/2019 9:37 am : link
picking at #6.

Note where the QBs, Clemson DL, and Oliver are ranked. Not so special.
99.9% of BBI  
UberAlias : 2/8/2019 9:39 am : link
only capable of one dimensional decision making.
RE: 99.9% of BBI  
JonC : 2/8/2019 9:41 am : link
In comment 14290631 UberAlias said:
Quote:
only capable of one dimensional decision making.


Lol, this is true.
Link  
Jerry K : 2/8/2019 9:45 am : link
Link
https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects - ( New Window )
Depending on how QB's shake out last years first round  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/8/2019 9:45 am : link
may go down as one of the best ever.
I wonder at what point they would consider  
UberAlias : 2/8/2019 9:46 am : link
dealing up for Lock from round 2, if he slid.
RE: I've been saying it looks like a weaker draft than we'd prefer  
dep026 : 2/8/2019 9:47 am : link
In comment 14290627 JonC said:
Quote:
picking at #6.

Note where the QBs, Clemson DL, and Oliver are ranked. Not so special.


So just asking for personal opinion.... would it be wiser to invest in the OL? Risk a QB? Or trade down?
Given the reputation of WR's being Diva's...  
Dan in the Springs : 2/8/2019 9:47 am : link
I just laugh at one whose nickname is posted with him on a draft board. You would think the agent might advise him not to do that.
RE: Given the reputation of WR's being Diva's...  
UberAlias : 2/8/2019 9:48 am : link
In comment 14290646 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
I just laugh at one whose nickname is posted with him on a draft board. You would think the agent might advise him not to do that.
LOL, good call.
RE: RE: I've been saying it looks like a weaker draft than we'd prefer  
JonC : 2/8/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14290645 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14290627 JonC said:


Quote:


picking at #6.

Note where the QBs, Clemson DL, and Oliver are ranked. Not so special.



So just asking for personal opinion.... would it be wiser to invest in the OL? Risk a QB? Or trade down?


I really like Rashan Gary, provided the team can answer the questions on why he looked so good one season but not so much last season. I'd like one of the edge rushers to measure up at #6, otherwise, I'd look to trade down. Not liking the OL or QB options, so far.
for reference  
giants#1 : 2/8/2019 9:52 am : link
Grades[/]
9.00-10 Once in a lifetime player
8.00-8.99 Perennial All-Pro
7.50-7.99 Future All-Pro
7.00-7.49 Pro Bowl-caliber Player
6.50-6.99 Chance to become Pro Bowl-Caliber Player
6.00-6.49 Should become instant starter
5.50-5.99 Chance to become NFL Starter
5.20-5.49 NFL backup or special teams potential
5.01-5.19 Better-than-average chance to make NFL roster
5.00 50/50 chance to make NFL roster
4.75-4.99 Should be in an NFL training camp
4.50-4.74 Chance to be in an NFL training camp
No Grade Likely needs time in developmental league

[u]Select 2018 Grades

Barkley - 7.45
Darnold - 7.00
Rosen - 6.19
Mayfield - 6.04
Jackson - 5.91
Allen - 5.90

So NFL.com would have Haskins/Murray as the 2nd/3rd best QB prospects in last years draft. Drew Lock (6.05) would be about even with Mayfield and Daniel Jones (5.88) is roughly on par with Jackson/Allen.
Good to see...  
Strip-Sack : 2/8/2019 9:54 am : link
the draft grade on Simmons, would still love to see him in blue if the character checks out.
RE: I've been saying it looks like a weaker draft than we'd prefer  
giants#1 : 2/8/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14290627 JonC said:
Quote:
picking at #6.

Note where the QBs, Clemson DL, and Oliver are ranked. Not so special.


The top talent certainly doesn't match last years (Chubb = 7.32, Nelson = 7.34, etc), but NFL.com seems pretty conservative with their grades (see Barkley's).
Fixed above post  
giants#1 : 2/8/2019 9:55 am : link
Grades
9.00-10 Once in a lifetime player
8.00-8.99 Perennial All-Pro
7.50-7.99 Future All-Pro
7.00-7.49 Pro Bowl-caliber Player
6.50-6.99 Chance to become Pro Bowl-Caliber Player
6.00-6.49 Should become instant starter
5.50-5.99 Chance to become NFL Starter
5.20-5.49 NFL backup or special teams potential
5.01-5.19 Better-than-average chance to make NFL roster
5.00 50/50 chance to make NFL roster
4.75-4.99 Should be in an NFL training camp
4.50-4.74 Chance to be in an NFL training camp
No Grade Likely needs time in developmental league

Select 2018 Grades
Barkley - 7.45
Darnold - 7.00
Rosen - 6.19
Mayfield - 6.04
Jackson - 5.91
Allen - 5.90

So NFL.com would have Haskins/Murray as the 2nd/3rd best QB prospects in last years draft. Drew Lock (6.05) would be about even with Mayfield and Daniel Jones (5.88) is roughly on par with Jackson/Allen.
RE: RE: RE: I've been saying it looks like a weaker draft than we'd prefer  
dep026 : 2/8/2019 9:59 am : link
In comment 14290651 JonC said:
Quote:

I really like Rashan Gary, provided the team can answer the questions on why he looked so good one season but not so much last season. I'd like one of the edge rushers to measure up at #6, otherwise, I'd look to trade down. Not liking the OL or QB options, so far.


Here's the thing with Gary that people dont see if they dont watch Michigan each week.

The defense wasnt built aroudn individual success. It never has been with Mattison and Dom Brown. Garys job was to occupy gaps and blockers to let the blitzers and other defenders get 1 on 1 situations. Thats why Bush and Mike McCrary were so good at getting to the QB.

When you throw in the shoulder injury he sustained pre-season.... you can see why his "stats" arent out of this world. But the Michigan defense had multitude of guys who racked up sacks and tackles.

Winovich, Dwamofour, Ugobe, and Pane all had success during the year.

And Ill stand by that I think Gary is the best run defender in the draft which is going to help his cause. If his shoulder chekcs out, I am afraid he may go 2nd overall.

And the homer in me has him better than Bosa too.
Badgers  
Jay in Toronto : 2/8/2019 10:22 am : link
Agree that Dieter is the best (safest) of their OLs.

Interesting that he has my 'dark horses' Deal and Van Ginkel rated.

Disagree of his rating (lack of) on LB T.J Edwards. Not sure of his ceiling (compared to Van Ginkel) but has a nice NFL calibre floor.
I like draft grade lists but it shows that teams consider need when it  
Ivan15 : 2/8/2019 10:23 am : link
comes time to pick.

I think Jones grade is pretty accurate, but someone like the Giants May trade into the bottom of Round 1 to gain the extra contract year.

If you are going to gamble on a guy, you might as well gamble that you will keep him around for 5 years.
Intrigued by TE T.J. Hockenson  
ij_reilly : 2/8/2019 10:24 am : link
I have to admit, this player really interests me.

I know TE is not considered a need position for the Giants. But I believe Gettleman will go BPA at number 6. Sure position is always a consideration. Obviously, a RB at 6 doesn't make a lot of sense.

But a potential All Pro true inline TE?

Is he a real possibility at #6?

I haven't seen Hockenson mentioned at all here in BBI Land, in regards to the #6 pick.

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm thinking this guy at #6 might be a winning pick.
RE: I've been saying it looks like a weaker draft than we'd prefer  
Giantology : 2/8/2019 10:25 am : link
In comment 14290627 JonC said:
Quote:
picking at #6.

Note where the QBs, Clemson DL, and Oliver are ranked. Not so special.


Well, the players listed ahead of them aren't much more special according these grades, either. I'd think that would put the QBs in play as its not some huge reach to take a player like Haskins at 6.
RE: I've been saying it looks like a weaker draft than we'd prefer  
Eman11 : 2/8/2019 10:29 am : link
In comment 14290627 JonC said:
Quote:
picking at #6.

Note where the QBs, Clemson DL, and Oliver are ranked. Not so special.


Well here's hoping if the Giants aren't sold on one of the QBs, two teams are and trade up to get them before the Giants pick at 6. Pre combine, it's the only way I see one of the top 4 dropping to them.
They  
mdthedream : 2/8/2019 10:33 am : link
are in play and its not much of a difference plus this is without the combine. We will know more soon enough.
RE: RE: I've been saying it looks like a weaker draft than we'd prefer  
JonC : 2/8/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14290719 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 14290627 JonC said:


Quote:


picking at #6.

Note where the QBs, Clemson DL, and Oliver are ranked. Not so special.



Well, the players listed ahead of them aren't much more special according these grades, either. I'd think that would put the QBs in play as its not some huge reach to take a player like Haskins at 6.


My point was to those banging the drum here for those players as no-brainer picks. There's really no blue chip options this year, unlike last year. All drafts are not created equal, and this #6 value is weaker, imv.

Grabbing the best QB available doesn't inspire me.
I thought Sweat was a darkhorse for our pick  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/8/2019 10:35 am : link
when he was considered late teens but I'm starting to think he will be the guy if we don't go QB. He had riser written all over him.
does anyone know where to find this  
ron mexico : 2/8/2019 10:35 am : link
for last year?
The QB  
mdthedream : 2/8/2019 10:38 am : link
is the most important player on the field and if the rating is close that puts the player in play esp a QB. To hope we get one next year of in the second round is crazy. If the Giants like him than they take the QB.
It's pretty funny the people that used this as evidence  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/8/2019 10:41 am : link
see the QB's suck, but I guess they didn't realize that according to this they would have been number 2 and 3 QBs last year. Thanks for whoever posted last years numbers.
RE: The QB  
dep026 : 2/8/2019 10:43 am : link
In comment 14290739 mdthedream said:
Quote:
is the most important player on the field and if the rating is close that puts the player in play esp a QB. To hope we get one next year of in the second round is crazy. If the Giants like him than they take the QB.


If the QB position is the most important, why would you want one who isnt ranked that high? If the Giants brass see the best QB as nothing more than an average starter- you still want to take him? Makes no sense.

If you swing and miss on a QB, the overall effect on the team than missing out on a DL or OT is massive.
We'll see  
Anakim : 2/8/2019 10:44 am : link
37. CB Byron Murphy (5.95)
38. LT Greg Little (5.95)
39. OLB Brian Burns (5.94)



These three should be a lot higher. Burns is my third best ER behind Bosa and Allen, Little has the POTENTIAL and TOOLS to be a top OT in the NFL and Murphy is my #1 CB in the Draft.
RE: I've been saying it looks like a weaker draft than we'd prefer  
Giants38 : 2/8/2019 10:47 am : link
In comment 14290627 JonC said:
Quote:
picking at #6.

Note where the QBs, Clemson DL, and Oliver are ranked. Not so special.


Colin from GBN was on here yesterday saying many NFL people would have ranked Haskins over all the QBs in last year’s draft. Yes, it might not compare with next year’s crop, but even then Colin said Haskins would fall squarely within the top ten.

And Boss: you could analyze it your way. You could also say that Haskins is ranked about a tenth of a point from the 5th best player in the draft - a marginal difference - meaning the Giants should likely lean that way.
Only 4 guys have a "Chance to become a pro-bowler"  
ZogZerg : 2/8/2019 10:48 am : link
Bummer, Giants are drafting at #6.

I guess its a sucky draft year this year.

This grading system is absolutely ridiculous!

Trying to distinguish college players between Future and Perennial All Pro and "once in a lifetime" using full points is moronic.

Instead, they separate guys by .01 of a point. LOL.
Who says they are  
mdthedream : 2/8/2019 10:57 am : link
average? They are ranked as good as last years group. No one has a crystal ball if they did they would have drafted Mahomes.
The NFL.Com  
cokeduplt : 2/8/2019 11:02 am : link
Rankings are always strange. I wouldn’t put much stock in them
well  
mdthedream : 2/8/2019 11:03 am : link
they will also change after the combine when you will see the player with the better combine separate himself from the pack.
Grading these players prior to  
Dnew15 : 2/8/2019 11:05 am : link
the combine/pro days/etc....is just flat out silly.
Mahomes draft grade was 5.87  
UberAlias : 2/8/2019 11:09 am : link
So he wouldn't have made this list, for reference.
JonC  
idinkido : 2/8/2019 11:11 am : link
Got it that you don't rate any QB as a blue chip, but if the Giants did draft one with the 6th pick, who would you want that choice to be and why?
Not sure I see a QB with "it" among this group  
JonC : 2/8/2019 11:23 am : link
If the Giants pick Haskins, I'll move forward certainly hoping I'm wrong. Given it appears the ER prospects are not what I'd hoped, it could help the pro-QB faction at #6.
Be careful about putting too much stock into the Combine.  
mittenedman : 2/8/2019 11:45 am : link
I like pre-Combine rankings because they are based on FOOTBALL.

The workout warriors will move up but they aren't playing football at the Combine.
If it makes anyone feel better  
Jarvis : 2/8/2019 11:47 am : link
They had Mayfield at 6.04 last year...and he ended up being the number 1 pick and runner up rookie of the year.

I find their grades in general to be wildly inconsistent from one year to the next.
I imagine these grades are with their estimated combine numbers in  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/8/2019 11:47 am : link
The interviews and wonderlic (depending on position) are where the players really can make a huge difference in their grades. Most the physical stuff is already know or at least have a decent estimate.
RE: If it makes anyone feel better  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/8/2019 11:51 am : link
In comment 14290839 Jarvis said:
Quote:
They had Mayfield at 6.04 last year...and he ended up being the number 1 pick and runner up rookie of the year.

I find their grades in general to be wildly inconsistent from one year to the next.


That is the problem with these grades. I want to know why they knocked Mayfield. What were the knocks on him other knocks and his size and "character" issues? How they grade Murray higher than Mayfield is strange to me, especially with the limited interviews I've seen him do I would not be surprised if his Wonderlic isn't up to par.
Mayfield  
mdthedream : 2/8/2019 11:55 am : link
was the only player I wanted over Barkley. He was the best looking player at the combine and he was a great player his senior year. The others I was not sure which one was the better of the rest.
Noticed how this thread turned  
dep026 : 2/8/2019 12:00 pm : link
into a draft a QB thread?

lol, its like clockwork - because it happens every day.
RE: Noticed how this thread turned  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/8/2019 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14290858 dep026 said:
Quote:
into a draft a QB thread?

lol, its like clockwork - because it happens every day.


This is a Giants forum and we have the 6th pick and I'd put everything I own on the fact that we are going to draft a QB this year or next. Why wouldn't it turn into a QB discussion?
Thats  
mdthedream : 2/8/2019 12:03 pm : link
because its the teams top need at the most important position.
RE: Noticed how this thread turned  
Strip-Sack : 2/8/2019 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14290858 dep026 said:
Quote:
into a draft a QB thread?

lol, its like clockwork - because it happens every day.


Agree...it's very tiresome.
At the Top It’s Weak  
Samiam : 2/8/2019 12:06 pm : link
Can someone comment on the later rounds? Is it also considered weak for mid level prospects?
Kicking the can  
ryanmkeane : 2/8/2019 12:07 pm : link
another year down the road on the QB...nice.
Its gotten to the point  
dep026 : 2/8/2019 12:08 pm : link
where we need alternate headings to say the same things


over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

and over again....
Baker Mayfield  
ryanmkeane : 2/8/2019 12:09 pm : link
was a 6.04

Haskins is a 6.25. Yet some people here want absolutely nothing to do with Haskins?
agree  
mdthedream : 2/8/2019 12:14 pm : link
I will trust the new Giants brass they got last years pick correct.
Can we just also  
ryanmkeane : 2/8/2019 12:14 pm : link
agree that no matter what the pre grades are for NFL.com...pretty much has nothing to do with how we are going to overall scout these players? Gettleman isn't sitting at the combine saying "ok so...hmmm Haskins is only a 6.25...interesting..."

They are taking the whole picture into account. Their background, work ethic, projection, leadership...all that stuff. Every site has different rankings, and most of the time, they are always incorrect. Plenty of guys outperform their projections, plenty of guys under perform. It's about taking a high ceiling/low floor player at the early picks who display the ability to be a pro bowl caliber player. If someone can explain to me why Haskins won't be a good NFL player...I'll gladly listen.
Think they are on the right...  
bw in dc : 2/8/2019 12:16 pm : link
path with Daniel Jones. Can't see him anywhere near the first round.

Other things I found interesting...

Was it really important to include "Hollywood" for Marquis Brown?? I find that so bizarre...

Simmons at #3 makes a lot of sense. And he's correctly rated over Bosa, who I think is overrated.

Hockenson at #6 is a real stretch for me. He's got the goods for sure but hate TEs that high. Am curious to see what he runs in the forty.

Jacobs is getting the love I expected. That kid is the real deal at RB. Would not touch him that high - of course - but he is going to be a player.

RE: Baker Mayfield  
Jay in Toronto : 2/8/2019 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14290871 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
was a 6.04

Haskins is a 6.25. Yet some people here want absolutely nothing to do with Haskins?


Thanks for this reminder that the rankings are (hopefully informed) opinions.
Nice to see Risner at #25...  
bw in dc : 2/8/2019 12:26 pm : link
He's very interesting to me. Can play C, both G slots and RT. And he's got that surly attitude you like.

Very curious to see Sy's opinion on Riz.
Hockenson  
jeff57 : 2/8/2019 12:27 pm : link
would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside.
.  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/8/2019 12:27 pm : link
"most of the time, they are always incorrect"

You should be in politics. ;)
RE: for reference  
The 12th Man : 2/8/2019 12:36 pm : link
In comment 14290654 giants#1 said:
Quote:
Grades[/]
9.00-10 Once in a lifetime player
8.00-8.99 Perennial All-Pro
7.50-7.99 Future All-Pro
7.00-7.49 Pro Bowl-caliber Player
6.50-6.99 Chance to become Pro Bowl-Caliber Player
6.00-6.49 Should become instant starter
5.50-5.99 Chance to become NFL Starter
5.20-5.49 NFL backup or special teams potential
5.01-5.19 Better-than-average chance to make NFL roster
5.00 50/50 chance to make NFL roster
4.75-4.99 Should be in an NFL training camp
4.50-4.74 Chance to be in an NFL training camp
No Grade Likely needs time in developmental league

[u]Select 2018 Grades
Barkley - 7.45
Darnold - 7.00
Rosen - 6.19
Mayfield - 6.04
Jackson - 5.91
Allen - 5.90

So NFL.com would have Haskins/Murray as the 2nd/3rd best QB prospects in last years draft. Drew Lock (6.05) would be about even with Mayfield and Daniel Jones (5.88) is roughly on par with Jackson/Allen.


So they were off on Mayfield.
RE: Hockenson  
Anakim : 2/8/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14290905 jeff57 said:
Quote:
would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside.


At 6?
RE: RE: Hockenson  
jeff57 : 2/8/2019 12:41 pm : link
In comment 14290919 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14290905 jeff57 said:


Quote:


would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside.



At 6?


That's where they have him.
RE: Hockenson  
bw in dc : 2/8/2019 12:42 pm : link
In comment 14290905 jeff57 said:
Quote:
would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside.


That would be a very dumb pick at #6.

Let's be honest...
Gee, "an instant starter" as a QB would be a bad thing?  
yatqb : 2/8/2019 12:46 pm : link
Sounds like a very competent pro to me.

And the rankings, especially for QBs, will likely change after the Combine and team workouts.

I suspect that we'd have to trade up to land Haskins when all is said and done. Whether he ever pans out is a different story, but that's the draft, a crap shoot.
RE: The QB  
PatersonPlank : 2/8/2019 12:46 pm : link
In comment 14290739 mdthedream said:
Quote:
is the most important player on the field and if the rating is close that puts the player in play esp a QB. To hope we get one next year of in the second round is crazy. If the Giants like him than they take the QB.


If you're not sold that one QB is better than another, and you think one or two will drop to the 2nd, then why not grab the top OT in the draft at #6 and whichever QB is left at #38? It makes great sense and provides value, again if you think that Haskins/Lock/Jones are roughly the same and that you would like to have each of them.
RE: RE: Hockenson  
jeff57 : 2/8/2019 12:49 pm : link
In comment 14290924 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14290905 jeff57 said:


Quote:


would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside.



That would be a very dumb pick at #6.

Let's be honest...


Possibly. I don't know, if I could get another Travis Kelce or Jason Witten at 6, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
I agree with the idea  
Dnew15 : 2/8/2019 12:56 pm : link
that we have to be careful about overvaluing the combine and that these rankings are great b/c it's based on performance from college football games...BUT...like dep pointed out with his boy from Michigan, some of these college schemes are built in such a way (maybe not on purpose) to make a player look better on tape or statistically b/c of what they are asked to do. That system may work in college, but NFL guys are looking for something more than that, NFL guys are looking for players that fit into their system, OR maybe that can play in multiple systems...which is why these draft boards fluctuate so much post combine.
Paterson  
mdthedream : 2/8/2019 12:58 pm : link
totally agree with that. That is what the Chargers did when they selected Tomlinson and Brees in the second round. That worked out great.
Way too much defensive and oline talent to even consider a qb.  
SterlingArcher : 2/8/2019 1:14 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: Hockenson  
Anakim : 2/8/2019 1:28 pm : link
In comment 14290923 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 14290919 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14290905 jeff57 said:


Quote:


would be ballsy pick. A true TE who can block well. Would help in both aspects of the offense. Engram could move to the outside.



At 6?



That's where they have him.


So?? Not saying Hock isn't good. He's my top TE. But a TE sixth? I mean how did it work out for Kellen Winslow, Vernon Davis, Eric Ebron before he came to the Colts...

And with the amount of needs on this team, going with a TE would be insane
The only players I would  
ryanmkeane : 2/8/2019 1:59 pm : link
consider at 6 over Haskins would be Quennin Williams and Josh allen. Now they will probably be gone (Williams a near certainty to be gone) but if they were somehow still on the board at 6 and so was Haskins, it would be tough. Still think haskins is the guy though.
RE: It's pretty funny the people that used this as evidence  
djm : 2/8/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14290744 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
see the QB's suck, but I guess they didn't realize that according to this they would have been number 2 and 3 QBs last year. Thanks for whoever posted last years numbers.


I was told I was nuts for even suggesting this. Gimme a break with last year’s class already. Some here make that class out to be absolutely irreplaceable. Bullshit!
Josh Allen is my favorite player in this draft  
Rjanyg : 2/8/2019 3:15 pm : link
that is not a QB. I expect us to go with Haskins or Lock at 6. For me the top 5 players I want at 6 are:
1. Allen
2. Haskins
3. lock
4. Ferrell
5. Sweat

If My top 3 are gone I can see DG going defense and then getting Stidham in round 2
It’s a good ER class  
WillVAB : 2/8/2019 3:42 pm : link
These grades are trash.
IF Ralph is right  
BigBlueCane : 2/8/2019 3:45 pm : link
and given that this franchise has been terrible at disguising their intentions, it seems like they're going to talk themselves into taking Haskins which would be a sure-fire trip to QB hell.
The value is solely how it compare to each other  
George from PA : 2/8/2019 6:24 pm : link
We should come away with 2 starters.

If we do not draft a QB
RE: IF Ralph is right  
arcarsenal : 2/8/2019 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14291141 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
and given that this franchise has been terrible at disguising their intentions, it seems like they're going to talk themselves into taking Haskins which would be a sure-fire trip to QB hell.


Seeing as you insisted that Tim Tebow was a better QB than Cam Newton for years, I'm not sure you're qualified to make this sort of statement.
"Hollywood" Brown is rated higher than Haskins.  
NYDCBlue : 2/8/2019 7:15 pm : link
That may say something.

Would love to see an average of rankings as we get closer to the draft.
Not a pile on comment  
NYDCBlue : 2/8/2019 7:42 pm : link
Reese is gone and I am at peace. I wish him well apart from us. That being said, I am comfortable picking at 6th in this draft. I would be much more nervous if Reese was still here because he had a history of never making trades and picking where ever we were predetermined. A recent bad result was Eli "Bad" Apple. Looking at the values posted here, they fall off a cliff after #4, Nick Bosa. Do I wish we had pick 5? You bet I do! We would be able to sell that pick for a ransom for either the top QB prospect, or the best available player who dropped due to a QB being picked. That being said, I believe Denver, D.C., or some other team will covet Murray, or Lock enough to trade at least a 2020 first to us to move up and get him....

2020 picks are the key to this draft. We need assets in that draft to move around and acquire our QB of the future.
I think the combine...  
Dan in the Springs : 2/8/2019 7:50 pm : link
workout numbers are going to mean less for players than ever before. With the type of data they are able to get, they now see actual speeds of players in pads on game day, far more important than a timed forty at a combine. Of course the strength explosion numbers are good to see, and you can answer questions about commitment particularly in the negative if someone shows up completely unprepared, but I think enough data is out there already about players' actual play speeds to make the workouts less impressive.

What is far more important will be the interviews, etc., and of course the back end of the draft where scouting info is not necessarily as available, particularly with players from the smaller schools.

And I agree with those who said that these numbers themselves, while interesting and spark discussion, are in no way a true evaluation of any individual team. They are not including all of the info a team will have when they make up their boards.
Almost no one is ever graded above 7.0  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/8/2019 7:52 pm : link
Barkley last year was graded 7.45 "maybe" a Pro Bowl Player.

The ratings are VERY conservative by #. Look up Aaron Donald or JJ Watt for example, did either of them break 7.0? Both back to back DPOY award winners, and the only 2 since LT to do that.
Aaron Donald was graded 6.34  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/8/2019 8:00 pm : link
OBJ was rated 6.16

JJ Watt was rated 8.37, but they used the scale differently back then or in that particular year. I'll bet you find other guys at or around 8.0 that draft class, because they have not been historically consistent year to year re grade designations.
It looks like the top tier is 4 guys.  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/8/2019 8:11 pm : link
That's been pretty consistent since folks started making top nnn boards after the college season finished.
well let's see Arc  
BigBlueCane : 2/8/2019 8:50 pm : link
Tim won one Hypesman, probably should have won 2, did 2 NC's and was highly respected by his teammates and would willing sell out his body to make a yard.

SCAM aka Fig Newton on the other hand, well we saw that Super Bowl play now didn't we.
RE: Baker Mayfield  
SHO'NUFF : 2/8/2019 9:09 pm : link
In comment 14290871 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
was a 6.04

Haskins is a 6.25. Yet some people here want absolutely nothing to do with Haskins?


I wanted/want nothing to do with either of them.
RE: At the Top It’s Weak  
Deejboy : 2/8/2019 9:50 pm : link
In comment 14290865 Samiam said:
Quote:
Can someone comment on the later rounds? Is it also considered weak for mid level prospects?

It's actually stronger than last year's draft. Only Barkley had a really high grade last year.
RE: IF Ralph is right  
GiantGrit : 2/9/2019 2:12 am : link
In comment 14291141 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
and given that this franchise has been terrible at disguising their intentions, it seems like they're going to talk themselves into taking Haskins which would be a sure-fire trip to QB hell.


What is it about Haskins that makes people think he's going to suck? Inexperience? He got progressively better as the year went on, finishing well against Michigan, Northwestern and Washington. Washington has an excellent defensive staff and NFL talent and he absolutely carved them up at times. He reads zone defenses very well for his age. His demeanor is AWESOME. Exactly what you want in a qb.

I'm not a Haskins homer either. He is by no means perfect. But he threw for 4,800 yards, 50 touchdowns and 8 picks on a 70 % completion percentage. What is the red flag with him that makes people think he is going to be terrible?
Teams  
Allen in CNJ : 2/9/2019 6:31 am : link
may or will clamor to the top of the draft to get one of the QB's, either Haskins or Murray, and will allow us to get one of the D-Linemen at 6, maybe even Quinnen Williams or Rashan Gary. Williams is the real deal, Gary was inconsistent but both have the skillset to become very good players.
RE: Baker Mayfield  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/9/2019 6:32 am : link
In comment 14290871 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
was a 6.04

Haskins is a 6.25. Yet some people here want absolutely nothing to do with Haskins?


Good post. But think about it really; what does that info tell us? What do these assigned scores really mean? Can we say with any degree of confidence that Haskins is likely to be a better player than Mayfield? Or better than Lock? Or less good than Gary?

A list of numerically graded subjects can't be properly understood or sorted without knowing the confidence intervals associated with those numerical grades.

The comparison you made: that Haskins is rated 0.21 points higher than Mayfield, suggests to me that the 95% confidence interval (95% being the standard often used in stats analysis) is greater than 0.21. Possibly a good bit greater.

Whatever that confidence interval is, you can't properly say that prospect X is better than prospect Y just because he was scored n points higher than Y. You need to see that X-Y > N. (N being the numerical value of the confidence interval at P= 0.95)

And that's why players are in real-life graded on tiers. Which fact gets lost here every year by many of us simpleton football fans.

It's why you grab Saquon Barkley over your highest rated QB when the difference X-Y = 0.5 or some number far greater than the confidence interval N.

And also why, when you need a new replacement franchise QB, you pull the trigger on Haskins (graded 6.25) even though Gary at 6.37 is still on the board. Because Gary and Haskins are really on the same tier unless the difference between their scores is greater than confidence interval N.

People fail to understand this time and time again, and that's assuming all these scores are "correct", which is never really the case anyway.
Thinking Allen will be gone by 6  
bc4life : 2/9/2019 9:54 am : link
Wondering if Polite has # 6 value?
RE: well let's see Arc  
GoBlue6599 : 2/9/2019 9:55 am : link
In comment 14291330 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
Tim won one Hypesman, probably should have won 2, did 2 NC's and was highly respected by his teammates and would willing sell out his body to make a yard.

SCAM aka Fig Newton on the other hand, well we saw that Super Bowl play now didn't we.

This is proof right here that people can convince themselves of anything.. Are you really arguing Tim Tebow is a better NFL QB then Cam Newton?
one thing that complicates pick prediction  
bc4life : 2/9/2019 9:58 am : link
we see what they have done in college, pick is impacted by how coaches think they can develop the player in the pros.
...  
BleedBlue : 2/9/2019 11:05 am : link
this is SOOOOOOOO fucking dumb,


first off, how is Barkley only a pro bowl caliber? after he DOMINATED the combine and had a great college career. you would think he would have qualified for one of their highest two ranking tiers. the kid is a generational talent.

that being said, these rankings mean shit.

im still on the train of lets see the combine and how these guys measure and test.
RE: I'd love to see Williams in the 1st at #6, and then hope for Lock  
BigBlueJuice : 2/10/2019 8:38 am : link
In comment 14290623 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
or Jones at our 2nd round selection


I have been saying that since week 16. Giants need to shore up o line. You grab best tackle. Lock wont be there. Jones may or will grier. Id be okay with either . Grier has a cannon, arm strength cant be taught. Accuracy can and he needs a little work, shurmer be perfect. Dont waste a 1st round pick on a qb unless you trade up late 1st to grab jones, who has been linked to patriots in a few mocks.
RE: Baker Mayfield  
BigBlueJuice : 2/10/2019 8:42 am : link
In comment 14290871 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
was a 6.04

Haskins is a 6.25. Yet some people here want absolutely nothing to do with Haskins?


Haskins could be good but ohio state qbs dont fair well in NFL. That is a lot of peoples concern. Second, eli is our starter this year and maybe next. We cant do him any more dirty and we need to shore up right side o line. Williams could be our future LT when solder contract expires but for now as a RT he would take over for wheeler. Save the qb pick for next year or you grab the Jones, Grier, 2nd tier qbs, that may still be manageable.
RE: Can we just also  
BigBlueJuice : 2/10/2019 8:44 am : link
In comment 14290883 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
agree that no matter what the pre grades are for NFL.com...pretty much has nothing to do with how we are going to overall scout these players? Gettleman isn't sitting at the combine saying "ok so...hmmm Haskins is only a 6.25...interesting..."

They are taking the whole picture into account. Their background, work ethic, projection, leadership...all that stuff. Every site has different rankings, and most of the time, they are always incorrect. Plenty of guys outperform their projections, plenty of guys under perform. It's about taking a high ceiling/low floor player at the early picks who display the ability to be a pro bowl caliber player. If someone can explain to me why Haskins won't be a good NFL player...I'll gladly listen.




https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/10/18/ohio-state-qbs-in-the-nfl/

Good reason
RE: Noticed how this thread turned  
section125 : 2/10/2019 9:18 am : link
In comment 14290858 dep026 said:
Quote:
into a draft a QB thread?

lol, its like clockwork - because it happens every day.


So what? While we know the oline and dline need major help as does FS and LB, they are more easily corrected. There is no doubt that QB is the one position that is hardest to find and with the 6th pick chances are better for getting that QB(if worthy) this year than next year when they will be picking in the teens with no chance of getting a QB. (with the oline fixed they will be 8-8 or better.)
You make it seem that QB is not a need or the need is grossly overrated. It is a major concern and whether Haskins or Lock is worthy of the #6 pick is huge question. I do not take Murray seriously because of size and baseball.
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