Evan Silva
@evansilva
Releasing Eli Manning before his $5 million bonus comes due on 3/17 would save $17 million vs the cap, but "the sense is the #Giants will keep Manning" & "requesting a straight pay cut from a player beloved within the organization seems unlikely."
thats really bad if true. IF they take a QB, i guess he benefits from learning behind eli for a year, but this really hurts in terms of cap. he is being paid like a top performing player and he really isnt
lol, c'mon.
wasnt that the plan for 2018?
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Forget the QB this year, go all in on Eli, no more half assed plans. Go big with Eli this year and look to the QB in 2020. Use that #6 pick on a ER or an OL.
lol, c'mon.
the 2020 argument is getting exhausting guys.
WHO KNOWS IF WE HAVE A SHOT AT THOSE TOP GUYS.
1. we improved from last year, another offseason could improve us AGAIN.
We will be closer to a fringe playoff team than the worst team in football
2. who knows if tua, fromm, herbert even turn out to be anything. what if they all have terrrible years? suffer a major injury? Its not like those three havent had shaky moments or dont have question marks.
i am not a fan of saying lets just wait, there is SO much that can happen between now and then. you take BPA. if need matches BPA, you have a homerun
Go big as in what -- trade up in the draft? Sign a bunch of free agents?
You think the Bears, Chiefs, or Texans are gnashing their teeth they didn't wait for the incomparible 2018 class?
If the Giants can some how just hold out, Peyton's son should be declaring eligible in 16 years. That's a good target.
Let's keep in mind that at the end of the season, Archie was quoted as saying, "But if he [Eli] comes back, the Giants have got to win." Archie is relaying what Eli and him have discussed. It just isn't a flippant response.
Eli doesn't owe the Giants anything and is under no obligation to assist through a transition. He isn't going to dictate to Dave how to execute a FA plan or a draft strategy. But he will be keenly observing the acquisitions. If any of the moves don't serve a "win now" goal, Eli might just retire.
Fucking joke.
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Forget the QB this year, go all in on Eli, no more half assed plans. Go big with Eli this year and look to the QB in 2020. Use that #6 pick on a ER or an OL.
Let's keep in mind that at the end of the season, Archie was quoted as saying, "But if he [Eli] comes back, the Giants have got to win." Archie is relaying what Eli and him have discussed. It just isn't a flippant response.
Eli doesn't owe the Giants anything and is under no obligation to assist through a transition. He isn't going to dictate to Dave how to execute a FA plan or a draft strategy. But he will be keenly observing the acquisitions. If any of the moves don't serve a "win now" goal, Eli might just retire.
If Manning takes his roster bonus -- the takes his toys and goes home because he doesn't like how the team is managed, that's pathetic.
I deeply hope he doesn't go outike that.
If they're going with Eli for the year, it's either give him more money for an extension, or stick with the contract as is.
I'd rather not extend and push dead money on next year.
The question is whether to go with Eli this year, or cut him.
As I've said before, keeping Eli for the last year of his contract does not prevent bringing in FA this year. First year cap hit is typically low, then will be escalating when Eli's hit is coming off the books.
DG got ran outta Carolina because of his refusal to overpay players beloved by the organization. He understands this is a business.
If they're going with Eli for the year, it's either give him more money for an extension, or stick with the contract as is.
I'd rather not extend and push dead money on next year.
The question is whether to go with Eli this year, or cut him.
As I've said before, keeping Eli for the last year of his contract does not prevent bringing in FA this year. First year cap hit is typically low, then will be escalating when Eli's hit is coming off the books.
You may see a parade of other team's failed #1's in here to find the next Kerry Collins.
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In comment 14291570 Jim in Forest Hills said:
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Forget the QB this year, go all in on Eli, no more half assed plans. Go big with Eli this year and look to the QB in 2020. Use that #6 pick on a ER or an OL.
Let's keep in mind that at the end of the season, Archie was quoted as saying, "But if he [Eli] comes back, the Giants have got to win." Archie is relaying what Eli and him have discussed. It just isn't a flippant response.
Eli doesn't owe the Giants anything and is under no obligation to assist through a transition. He isn't going to dictate to Dave how to execute a FA plan or a draft strategy. But he will be keenly observing the acquisitions. If any of the moves don't serve a "win now" goal, Eli might just retire.
If Manning takes his roster bonus -- the takes his toys and goes home because he doesn't like how the team is managed, that's pathetic.
I deeply hope he doesn't go outike that.
Why? It is a team option roster bonus. Eli has no control. It is either paid on 3/17 or it isn't. There is nothing stopping from Eli staying away for OTAs and training camp. If he is on the 53 man roster, he can retire the next day with his salary guaranteed.
The truth is they really have little choice. They can really only release or extend. The latter option results in the need to sign somebody like Foles and Bridgewater with little cost savings.
I’m very tired of hearing how they screwed up last year. Move on and do the best you can to grow the team. The second half of last year witnessed a resurgent offense and depleted defense. Get a ER in the first, a center/guard with the 2nd and roll the dice
+1
LOL at everyone above getting all fired up
DG got ran outta Carolina because of his refusal to overpay players beloved by the organization. He understands this is a business.
Eli doesn't have to take a paycut. He can retire on 3/18 $5M richer. He can forfeit his $250K workout bonus by skipping OTAs. He can even skip training camp incurring a $30K fine for each day. If he is on the 53 man roster, he can retire the next day and collect his full salary.
Not surprising at all, true.
Still clueless.
Taking his roster bonus, and observing skeptically before he decides to play or not is team wrecking.
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That dog don't hunt. He's just using Archie to put pressure on DG to overpay for some pieces to win this year.
DG got ran outta Carolina because of his refusal to overpay players beloved by the organization. He understands this is a business.
Eli doesn't have to take a paycut. He can retire on 3/18 $5M richer. He can forfeit his $250K workout bonus by skipping OTAs. He can even skip training camp incurring a $30K fine for each day. If he is on the 53 man roster, he can retire the next day and collect his full salary.
When you retire you forgo your salary. Salary is only guaranteed in case of injury.
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In comment 14291597 Zeke's Alibi said:
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That dog don't hunt. He's just using Archie to put pressure on DG to overpay for some pieces to win this year.
DG got ran outta Carolina because of his refusal to overpay players beloved by the organization. He understands this is a business.
Eli doesn't have to take a paycut. He can retire on 3/18 $5M richer. He can forfeit his $250K workout bonus by skipping OTAs. He can even skip training camp incurring a $30K fine for each day. If he is on the 53 man roster, he can retire the next day and collect his full salary.
When you retire you forgo your salary. Salary is only guaranteed in case of injury.
CBA allows for vested veterans to claim their full salary once in their career. Nice try.
If he retires before the final 53, yes, there is $6.2M in signing bonus that could be recouped at the team option. After the final 53, there is no more prorated signing bonus to recoup. Also, if you think Mara would sign off on pursuing $6.2M, you haven't been following the Giants for long. If Eli retires after his RB, Mara would just shrug his shoulders at the $5M and consider it Eli's gold watch.
Fucking joke.
Seriously. What a horrible way to run an NFL team.
Fucking joke.
The bigger joke is you and others getting fired up by EVAN SILVAs speculation when he has no clue what’s really going to transpire.
Honestly if he doesn't get an extension I think it could be a sign they like a QB this year. If they gave him a one year extension at 8-10 million you now are paying Eli reasonable money to man the helm for two years and help whoever they draft in 2020.
If they draft a QB, Eli needs to be on a new team.
As long as there isn't an extension or they decide to lock in a big money QB FA for multiple years I'm okay and at peace with any decision.
That is tempered by the fact that Rivers, Ryan, Carr, Bortles, Keenum, Winston, Mariotta are just 1-2M behind him....
So is he being paid like a top QB, with a base of 17M?
He is actually paid, just about middle of the road...
What it comes down to is, the Giants want to rebuild, but they want to be competitive also.....in doing so, they actually lengthen the time it will take for this team to be a true contender...
Well, what he says furthers the cause of some, so it's true information regardless.
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and spends the majority of his days tweeting about how he hates Gettleman and the Giants. He’s a nerd.
Well, what he says furthers the cause of some, so it's true information regardless.
You’re right all OPINIONS are “true” in a sense.
I am not totally sold on Haskins at this time. I need to see him throw at the combine
And clowns fall for it every time (see Terps above).
If these hypotheticals happen and if the Giants have a good year behind Eli, will that be enough for some to get that other players besides the quarterback matter?
If these hypotheticals happen and if the Giants have a good year behind Eli, will that be enough for some to get that other players besides the quarterback matter?
1) He didn't even say it -- he's quoting someone who said it -- which makes him something much less useful than even a hack.
2) Do you really read this site and think people are "surprised" the Giants err on the side of loyalty to Manning?
I think you routinely confuse surprise with disappointment and criticism.
SO if you are talking 2020 - you're in the camp that the Gmen must draft "to need?"
Many on here believe you go BPA and that's it. So next year you are all-in to draft by need even if the QB is either mediocre of you have to go beyond extreme to trade up and get one?
How many offensive linemen should the giants get in Free Agency? You need two? Because GMen 1st rd pick you won't take one with the 6th pick because more than likely that is not an OLineman. And the 2nd rd pick isn't going ot be assured of a starter, will it more than likely? ELi needs an OL due to immobility.
Really only were 3 possibilities :
1)Extension
2)Play out the year
3)Retirement
Really only were 3 possibilities :
1)Extension
2)Play out the year
3)Retirement
Correct.
Duggan said it. This shit stain regurgitated it.
Mara is clueless please sell the team
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In comment 14291587 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 14291570 Jim in Forest Hills said:
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Forget the QB this year, go all in on Eli, no more half assed plans. Go big with Eli this year and look to the QB in 2020. Use that #6 pick on a ER or an OL.
Let's keep in mind that at the end of the season, Archie was quoted as saying, "But if he [Eli] comes back, the Giants have got to win." Archie is relaying what Eli and him have discussed. It just isn't a flippant response.
Eli doesn't owe the Giants anything and is under no obligation to assist through a transition. He isn't going to dictate to Dave how to execute a FA plan or a draft strategy. But he will be keenly observing the acquisitions. If any of the moves don't serve a "win now" goal, Eli might just retire.
If Manning takes his roster bonus -- the takes his toys and goes home because he doesn't like how the team is managed, that's pathetic.
I deeply hope he doesn't go outike that.
Why? It is a team option roster bonus. Eli has no control. It is either paid on 3/17 or it isn't. There is nothing stopping from Eli staying away for OTAs and training camp. If he is on the 53 man roster, he can retire the next day with his salary guaranteed.
I assume you are a big fan of Eli for the way he handles himself off the field as much as how he does in it.
To suggest Eli would even comtplate such a thing is redicoulous.
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but what he's saying is going to happen is likely going to happen so anybody that's surprised by this should prepare themselves.
Duggan said it. This shit stain regurgitated it.
yes, a lot of shit stains seem to repeat it...
Lol ok Tom Cordon.
The cap hasn’t killed the giants the last so many years. Bad drafts have.
Cap is the least of our problems. You guys literally obsess over this shit.
While he is reporting what another said, he also shares his opinion. I imagine if the Giants won the Super Bowl he would say it was complete luck. I agreed with his opinion that the Giants should have selected a QB at 2, his repetitive tweets minute after minute reporting were aggravating. When I said as much, he called the Giants fan base “the most sensitive fan base” and blocked me. He’s a fuckturd.
Of course this won’t stop many of you from gojng ape shit and killing the giants. If they do anything it’s awful because they suck and ok we get it.
The cap hasn’t killed the giants the last so many years. Bad drafts have.
Both statements are true. However, the first sentence is only true because of the second. There's a 5-6 year blackhole where our shitty drafting afforded us the luxury of not having to hand out big second contracts to our own. That has already started to change. OBJ just signed a mega-extension. Collins is on deck. Shep is behind him. If DG continues to draft well, you bet your ass that it's a concern because mismanaging the cap can undo good drafting when those players walk.
Knee jerk response to that is "we worry about that once we draft well". Cap is fluid though. Financial decisions in 2019 have a residual effect in future years, which impact decisions in those years that have a residual effect even further out, etc, etc. Wastefully allocating resources in what is a transition year may impact us when we actually need the money to compete. That is why it matters.
The cap hasn’t killed the giants the last so many years. Bad drafts have.
Cap is the least of our problems. You guys literally obsess over this shit.
The Giants have compounded bad drafts with bad cap allocation. They have 57% of this year's cap allocated to 6 players -- and a number of holes to fill on the roster. Most notably on defense, which you post about frequently.
The Giants bad cap allocation is most certainly not the least of their problems.
They might not be in proverbial cap hell -- but they are bottom third in monies to spend over the next two years with plenty of problem areas.
Eli’s cap hit won’t preclude the Giants from adding quality players in FA.
1. He will end up in the middle of salary ranges
2. He has a maximum of one year here - good or bad season
3. He can mentor the new kid on the block
Frankly, when our OL stopped looking like the Ram's OL in the Superbowl, he played a lot better. I'm not sure anyone plays well with the crappy work our OL did in the 1st half of the season.
Get a new guy in free agency and I doubt you are saving much money. Getting a new draft pick, you are probably not throwing him to the wolves to start with regardless.
The answer to both questions is a resounding no. The only reason to keep him is nostalgia.
So it's no surprise the team sucks. It's run like a mom and pop malt shop.
Alex Smith has never won a championship but has overcome a tough first 5 years to produce a better winning percentage overall and only 22 less wins total (94-66-1 to 116-114-0).
He has been shown the door twice now while coming off playoff appearances. If he returns to play football again it's likely it will happen a 3rd time.
Even Brady was close to being sent packing. Kraft prevented it otherwise now maybe Brady is the Niner QB, and Jimmy is in NE.
Forget the streak, Eli really is the iron man of QBs.
The answer to both questions is a resounding no. The only reason to keep him is nostalgia.
So it's no surprise the team sucks. It's run like a mom and pop malt shop.
He's there until next season. They don't want to go into the season with a rookie and nothing else behind him. If they had another vet, he costs an awful lot and will be worse than Manning. The likes of Bridgewater, Tyrod, Bradford, please, they're terrible. No one is fighting over for their services.
The answer to both questions is a resounding no. The only reason to keep him is nostalgia.
So it's no surprise the team sucks. It's run like a mom and pop malt shop.
Right, let’s not even bother to consider that signing a vet like bridgewater or Flacco ends up with the giants spending the same qb money in 2019 anyway. And now they are even worse at the position. Nope, it’s all about the platitudes. It’s all about how much Eli is worth... whatever the hell that even means at this point.
Oh, we could sign Tyrod Taylor and develop him into something more than backup qb. That would work out well I’m sure.
The qb position isn’t in a state of crisis no matter how you slice it.
The answer to both questions is a resounding no. The only reason to keep him is nostalgia.
So it's no surprise the team sucks. It's run like a mom and pop malt shop.
Your assumption is that this team would contend for a title but for Manning. Examine your assumption.
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Is Eli worth $23M? Is having him in 2019 worth the $17M in cap space we'd get by cutting him?
The answer to both questions is a resounding no. The only reason to keep him is nostalgia.
So it's no surprise the team sucks. It's run like a mom and pop malt shop.
He's there until next season. They don't want to go into the season with a rookie and nothing else behind him. If they had another vet, he costs an awful lot and will be worse than Manning. The likes of Bridgewater, Tyrod, Bradford, please, they're terrible. No one is fighting over for their services.
The Giants would be signing a placeholder to help install the offense, keep the team functional, and wait until the rookie could play.
There is nothing exotic about this approach.
Moving onto a rookie means there will be growing pains -- exactly how Eli Manning came to be a starter on this team.
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Is Eli worth $23M? Is having him in 2019 worth the $17M in cap space we'd get by cutting him?
The answer to both questions is a resounding no. The only reason to keep him is nostalgia.
So it's no surprise the team sucks. It's run like a mom and pop malt shop.
Right, let’s not even bother to consider that signing a vet like bridgewater or Flacco ends up with the giants spending the same qb money in 2019 anyway. And now they are even worse at the position. Nope, it’s all about the platitudes. It’s all about how much Eli is worth... whatever the hell that even means at this point.
Oh, we could sign Tyrod Taylor and develop him into something more than backup qb. That would work out well I’m sure.
The qb position isn’t in a state of crisis no matter how you slice it.
The answer to both questions is a resounding no. The only reason to keep him is nostalgia.
So it's no surprise the team sucks. It's run like a mom and pop malt shop.
The cap hit/space only matters if it’s preventing the Giants from signing one or more players in FA. Who are they potentially missing out on?
You keep bringing up the cap hit without providing any FA plan that makes the team better.
Cap space for the sake of cap space means nothing.
It's amazing how poorly people read, and how rolling they are to put words in your mouth.
Going on Snyder-like free agent spending isn't a good idea even if it looks good in March and Madden. Giants should stay the course, get a "choice" free agent of 2 and another strong draft. Do just as they say: continue to address the OL, add talent to the D.
I see a lot of "Giants stuck in their old ways". Not buying it. Their old ways work. Great run game, play action to receivers who know what they're doing and a strong D = contender. There is no stopping it and Eli has shown he can go all the way, in any hostile environment, if he's got the team around him. Stay the course. It's worked before, and it'll work again.
Going on Snyder-like free agent spending isn't a good idea even if it looks good in March and Madden. Giants should stay the course, get a "choice" free agent of 2 and another strong draft. Do just as they say: continue to address the OL, add talent to the D.
I see a lot of "Giants stuck in their old ways". Not buying it. Their old ways work. Great run game, play action to receivers who know what they're doing and a strong D = contender. There is no stopping it and Eli has shown he can go all the way, in any hostile environment, if he's got the team around him. Stay the course. It's worked before, and it'll work again.
Well, if we don’t need the cap space and Eli has all this gas left in the tank, why not pay him another $90M / 3 yrs?
May as well lock up this still great player who is more mobile than ever, a stronger arm than ever, and stands taller and more poised than ever in the pocket.
Right?
He's never going to see playoff action again with this shitshow of an organization.
If I recall correctly, bw has espoused taking a second tier QB in round 2 (possibly trading to get back into low round 1).
I don't remember Go Terps advocating any alternative. Most just yells to get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli.
Is there any particular QB either of you want to draft? or is it anyone but Eli?
If I recall correctly, bw has espoused taking a second tier QB in round 2 (possibly trading to get back into low round 1).
I don't remember Go Terps advocating any alternative. Most just yells to get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli.
Is there any particular QB either of you want to draft? or is it anyone but Eli?
I've suggested an alternative several times. The way I see it, we have the viable options after cutting Eli:
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter and Tanney the backup
2. Draft a QB and let him compete with Lauletta for the starting job
3. Trade for an inexpensive backup from someone else's roster. Names of the top of my head include Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett, Mason Rudolph, Josh Dobbs, Nick Mullens, and Jeff Driskell.
Each of those is a viable, realistic alternative and preferable to overpaying Eli (or Files or Flacco).
Take our lumps now. We will not be any worse in fact we will likely get better quicker
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People, myself included, want to build through the draft. The cap has gone up and the QB costing $23.2M isn't destroying anything if, again, you want to build through the draft.
Going on Snyder-like free agent spending isn't a good idea even if it looks good in March and Madden. Giants should stay the course, get a "choice" free agent of 2 and another strong draft. Do just as they say: continue to address the OL, add talent to the D.
I see a lot of "Giants stuck in their old ways". Not buying it. Their old ways work. Great run game, play action to receivers who know what they're doing and a strong D = contender. There is no stopping it and Eli has shown he can go all the way, in any hostile environment, if he's got the team around him. Stay the course. It's worked before, and it'll work again.
Well, if we don’t need the cap space and Eli has all this gas left in the tank, why not pay him another $90M / 3 yrs?
May as well lock up this still great player who is more mobile than ever, a stronger arm than ever, and stands taller and more poised than ever in the pocket.
Right?
Idiotic argument.
Brady just won the SB and is entering the final year of his deal just like Eli. Why aren’t the Pats extending him? Are the Pats dumb? Does it mean they are locked into drafting his replacement? Does it mean they have to draft his replacement? Does it mean Brady sucks now? No.
When a QB gets to this stage of his career it’s really in the best interest of the organization to take it year by year until you’re certain about the replacement.
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so who is your choice for QB, and what do you think it will take to get him?
If I recall correctly, bw has espoused taking a second tier QB in round 2 (possibly trading to get back into low round 1).
I don't remember Go Terps advocating any alternative. Most just yells to get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli.
Is there any particular QB either of you want to draft? or is it anyone but Eli?
I've suggested an alternative several times. The way I see it, we have the viable options after cutting Eli:
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter and Tanney the backup
2. Draft a QB and let him compete with Lauletta for the starting job
3. Trade for an inexpensive backup from someone else's roster. Names of the top of my head include Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett, Mason Rudolph, Josh Dobbs, Nick Mullens, and Jeff Driskell.
Each of those is a viable, realistic alternative and preferable to overpaying Eli (or Files or Flacco).
None of those options are “viable” except option 2, which would represent reaching for a QB in a weak class and losing out on the opportunity to draft a better prospect in subsequent years.
No real prospects (except maybe a draft pick this year). just a hope that someone is able to step up.
It would be a dream scenario if Lauletta is the man, or if there's some sleeper out there that a team is willing to trade us (I know Dave-Te was creaming his pants over Sloter). If such were the case, I'd be ecstatic. I don't know as it's realistic to plan on, though.
The one thing Shurmur supposedly does well is work with quarterbacks. Why not use that to gain a roster building advantage?
It is when the poster admittedly wants the Giants to go 0-16 so that Gettleman and Shurmer lose their jobs...
The problem is that we don't have much evidence that he can be an option. At this point, he represents an anybody but Eli option.
Take our lumps now. We will not be any worse in fact we will likely get better quicker
Yeah Curtis Riley, Chad Wheeler, and Spencer Pulley would be all pros if it wasn’t for that way overpaid asshole making 20+ million a year.
Here’s a novel concept. Give current version of Eli a decent line and a defense that can make a stop in the 4th quarter, and maybe things are improved. Last off-season was a good draft. Let’s have another one and hit on a few FA’s so that when we do get the next Giants quarterback, he can succeed without the weight of the world on his shoulders.
The whole team matters. Old guys like Brady, Brees, Ben, and Rivers don’t have their fan bases clamoring for their replacements. Why? They’re old and make a lot of money too. But, the teams around them are good enough and they continue to achieve and add to their HOF reputations.
Whereas, our Eli, he gets surrounded by stooges for about 7 years of bad drafts and our fan base has members like you in it who ignore basic obvious facts about the sport and question what the locker room thinks of him when about everyone on the current team has said he’s their leader.
Shurmur being good with QB's doesn't mean he can turn anyone into an NFL-caliber player.
The Giants won't even entertain a plan that entails going into the year with a 4th round QB who played for the Richmond Spiders, took about 5 snaps in a game this year, is an entirely unknown quantity, and Alex Tanney as their options.
Imagine trying to sell that to fans... hah.
Will never happen. Not even worth discussing. Doing that basically says you are comfortable hinging your entire season on a QB situation almost certain to fail.
If Lauletta just completely sucks, there's no season. And that's the most likely scenario. It's a very poor strategy and one that I'm fairly sure won't ever be employed.
Teams don't go into a season that naked at the QB position. I can't think of any team that has gone into a season recently with a strategy like that.
For a guy who keeps mocking everyone for clinging to "hopefully's," you'd be employing a MAJOR one at the most important position on the field.
Nothing would be more hopeful and wishful than handing Kyle Lauletta the starting job without him ever even earning it and just crossing our fingers and hoping it works.
Will never happen.
I mean shit -- there's a draft -- and you know all those 4th and 5th round picks are going to really round out all the talent and depth that's just dripping off this team.
Very, very well played guys.
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or whatever exorbitant price is healthy for the team with his production. Imagine what the other players think making less then a 10th of that .
Take our lumps now. We will not be any worse in fact we will likely get better quicker
Yeah Curtis Riley, Chad Wheeler, and Spencer Pulley would be all pros if it wasn’t for that way overpaid asshole making 20+ million a year.
Here’s a novel concept. Give current version of Eli a decent line and a defense that can make a stop in the 4th quarter, and maybe things are improved. Last off-season was a good draft. Let’s have another one and hit on a few FA’s so that when we do get the next Giants quarterback, he can succeed without the weight of the world on his shoulders.
The whole team matters. Old guys like Brady, Brees, Ben, and Rivers don’t have their fan bases clamoring for their replacements. Why? They’re old and make a lot of money too. But, the teams around them are good enough and they continue to achieve and add to their HOF reputations.
Whereas, our Eli, he gets surrounded by stooges for about 7 years of bad drafts and our fan base has members like you in it who ignore basic obvious facts about the sport and question what the locker room thinks of him when about everyone on the current team has said he’s their leader.
Those QB's you listed are currently better than Eli save Ben right now (whose subpar play will be exposed next year without Brown and Bell) and I think Steelers fans will be looking hard on Ben next year with a major dip in his statline.
I'm not a fan of the whole stating opinion as fact thing, but I am comfortable doing it here. Lauletta/Tanney will not be a consideration for the 2019 season. You can quote me on that.
I wouldn't give Lauletta the job going he'd play well. I'd give him the job knowing we have the best timing back in the league and another $17M to help make his life easier.
I'm not a fan of the whole stating opinion as fact thing, but I am comfortable doing it here. Lauletta/Tanney will not be a consideration for the 2019 season. You can quote me on that.
Yeah, no shit. It's obviously going to be Eli.
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The 2019 Giants QB is going to be either Eli Manning, or someone from this rookie class.
I'm not a fan of the whole stating opinion as fact thing, but I am comfortable doing it here. Lauletta/Tanney will not be a consideration for the 2019 season. You can quote me on that.
Yeah, no shit. It's obviously going to be Eli.
So why are you wasting your time with these asinine suggestions? They're off the wall and not ever going to happen.
Just to show that you think way differently than everyone else?
I wouldn't give Lauletta the job going he'd play well. I'd give him the job knowing we have the best timing back in the league and another $17M to help make his life easier.
Manning nb is going to be better than KL. You know that. So, it comes down to whether or not that 17m hamstrings them. There is no indication that it will.
If I recall correctly, bw has espoused taking a second tier QB in round 2 (possibly trading to get back into low round 1).
I don't remember Go Terps advocating any alternative. Most just yells to get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli.
Is there any particular QB either of you want to draft? or is it anyone but Eli?
I’ve suggested a combination of these:
A. Trade for Driskell, who filled in very well for Dalton. He moves very well and has an excellent arm.
B. Definitely draft a QB this year. I have a hard time supporting anyone at #6. So I’d target someone in round 2 or 3. Or grab someone late in the first on a trade up. I mostly like Lock, Grier, Stidham and Finley is growing on me. Murray is an extraordinary college talent. I just don’t trust that size. But I wouldn’t be surprised either if he becomes a star.
C. Keep or cut Lauletta.
So A or B must occur. Then...
If we don’t do A, get C ready to start. And fast track B.
If we get A, also do B, and cut C.
I wouldn't give Lauletta the job going he'd play well. I'd give him the job knowing we have the best timing back in the league and another $17M to help make his life easier.
I've been saying this for a while. What would Eli's salary be and who is signing him if we don't pay the 17 million. There is really no market for his services as the teams that would sign him are really strung by the salary cap. Even if a team had room is anyone paying him more than 15 million?
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In comment 14291846 xman said:
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or whatever exorbitant price is healthy for the team with his production. Imagine what the other players think making less then a 10th of that .
Take our lumps now. We will not be any worse in fact we will likely get better quicker
Yeah Curtis Riley, Chad Wheeler, and Spencer Pulley would be all pros if it wasn’t for that way overpaid asshole making 20+ million a year.
Here’s a novel concept. Give current version of Eli a decent line and a defense that can make a stop in the 4th quarter, and maybe things are improved. Last off-season was a good draft. Let’s have another one and hit on a few FA’s so that when we do get the next Giants quarterback, he can succeed without the weight of the world on his shoulders.
The whole team matters. Old guys like Brady, Brees, Ben, and Rivers don’t have their fan bases clamoring for their replacements. Why? They’re old and make a lot of money too. But, the teams around them are good enough and they continue to achieve and add to their HOF reputations.
Whereas, our Eli, he gets surrounded by stooges for about 7 years of bad drafts and our fan base has members like you in it who ignore basic obvious facts about the sport and question what the locker room thinks of him when about everyone on the current team has said he’s their leader.
Those QB's you listed are currently better than Eli save Ben right now (whose subpar play will be exposed next year without Brown and Bell) and I think Steelers fans will be looking hard on Ben next year with a major dip in his statline.
They are better than Eli, sure. But can you honestly tell me that you take any of those guys off their teams and put them in Eli’s spot, the 2018 Giants roster succeeds?
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In comment 14291869 arcarsenal said:
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The 2019 Giants QB is going to be either Eli Manning, or someone from this rookie class.
I'm not a fan of the whole stating opinion as fact thing, but I am comfortable doing it here. Lauletta/Tanney will not be a consideration for the 2019 season. You can quote me on that.
Yeah, no shit. It's obviously going to be Eli.
So why are you wasting your time with these asinine suggestions? They're off the wall and not ever going to happen.
Just to show that you think way differently than everyone else?
The options do exist. I'm laying them out there to show how fucked up the front office is, because they seem to think it's Eli or nothing.
A competent front office doesn't pay Eli this much money coming off last season.
How often do players in their late 30's on long term deals still represent full contractual value in the final year?
I'd wager the percentage is miniscule.
I don't think anyone here actually believes that Eli's performance in 2019 will match up to the cap hit - you usually anticipate that is going to happen when you sign a player to a deal like this. The end of it is something you typically just need to manage.
It's just that we're in a situation now where absorbing the 6M in dead money + signing a veteran tallies up to basically the same amount for what likely will be worse production.
If we draft a QB @ 6 or in the first round via moving up/down/whatever, then Id be fine cutting bait with Eli and trying to get the rookie as much help as possible.
But I'm not cutting Eli to hand Kyle Lauletta the job completely undeservingly and walking into the season essentially naked at the QB position and I'm also not cutting him so that we can turn around and sign some shitty stopgap like Tyrod Taylor.
If Haskins or Murray are on the team? By all means... I can get on board with cutting Eli loose.
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In comment 14291874 Go Terps said:
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In comment 14291869 arcarsenal said:
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The 2019 Giants QB is going to be either Eli Manning, or someone from this rookie class.
I'm not a fan of the whole stating opinion as fact thing, but I am comfortable doing it here. Lauletta/Tanney will not be a consideration for the 2019 season. You can quote me on that.
Yeah, no shit. It's obviously going to be Eli.
So why are you wasting your time with these asinine suggestions? They're off the wall and not ever going to happen.
Just to show that you think way differently than everyone else?
The options do exist. I'm laying them out there to show how fucked up the front office is, because they seem to think it's Eli or nothing.
A competent front office doesn't pay Eli this much money coming off last season.
A competent front office also doesn't hinge their season to complete unknowns out of small college programs with essentially zero NFL experience.
Merely suggesting options doesn't mean they're all viable.
Keeping him either makes sense or it doesn't. It doesn't.
There's much more supply than demand this year. Tannehil, Taylor, Bridgewater, McCown, Fitzpatrick, maybe Bortles and a few others will be available.
You get outside of the top 30 or so salaries (and even excluding rookie deals) -- guys aren't making 17M a year.
Well, if we don’t need the cap space and Eli has all this gas left in the tank, why not pay him another $90M / 3 yrs?
May as well lock up this still great player who is more mobile than ever, a stronger arm than ever, and stands taller and more poised than ever in the pocket.
Right?
Idiotic argument.
Brady just won the SB and is entering the final year of his deal just like Eli. Why aren’t the Pats extending him? Are the Pats dumb? Does it mean they are locked into drafting his replacement? Does it mean they have to draft his replacement? Does it mean Brady sucks now? No.
When a QB gets to this stage of his career it’s really in the best interest of the organization to take it year by year until you’re certain about the replacement.
With all due respect, comparing Eli to Brady is not your strongest move.
Eli exhibits considerably more signs of his skills eroding than Brady.
Brady is better at 42 than Eli ever was. He’ll be better at 50 than Eli ever was. And the Pats will extend him.
Furthermore, the Pats, well BB, had a succession plan. He tutored JG and had him prime to go. Kraft pulled the owner card, likely via. Brady campaign behind the scenes, and forced the JG trade.
If we take another developmental QB, then no, I'm not necessarily going to cut him. I'm tired of taking QB's who aren't near the top of their class - if we're taking a QB, take Haskins or Murray and cut the crap. No more Ryan Nassib's, Davis Webb's, and Kyle Lauletta's. Those are lottery tickets with substantially low odds.
If you take a guy in the 1st round, you intend on him being your starting QB in the very near future. Haskins or Murray should be able to play right away if you draft them. They don't necessarily need to, but they should be able to. So, I'm fine cutting Eli if we draft one of them.
If it's Jones, I'm not going to be thrilled, but I'm guessing he'd be drafted within the first 2 rounds with full intention of him being the heir apparent.
Regardless - if it's a rookie they're drafting this year, so be it. But I wouldn't be on board with any plan that included handing Lauletta the job based on nothing other than cap space.
There's much more supply than demand this year. Tannehil, Taylor, Bridgewater, McCown, Fitzpatrick, maybe Bortles and a few others will be available.
You get outside of the top 30 or so salaries (and even excluding rookie deals) -- guys aren't making 17M a year.
Signing any of those QB's would be a complete waste of money.
So, you don't want to hear anyone talk about hopefully's, have been clamoring for a "plan" for months and months now, but are comfortable with a plan that entails basically just going in totally blind and hitching your wagon to a complete unknown.
Where's the logic here? That's not a plan. That's throwing shit at a wall.
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The notion a stop-gap QB is going to cost anywhere in the neighborhood of what Manning costs this year is funny.
There's much more supply than demand this year. Tannehil, Taylor, Bridgewater, McCown, Fitzpatrick, maybe Bortles and a few others will be available.
You get outside of the top 30 or so salaries (and even excluding rookie deals) -- guys aren't making 17M a year.
Signing any of those QB's would be a complete waste of money.
Kind of like signing Kurt Warner to keep the seat warm was a complete waste of money?
The one thing Shurmur supposedly does well is work with quarterbacks. Why not use that to gain a roster building advantage?
At a minimum, Eli has shown he can win if the roster breaks the right way around him. None of the “viable” options can even say that.
Again, who is this vital piece or pieces the Giants can acquire with the cap space? Cap space for the hell of it means nothing.
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In comment 14291897 christian said:
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The notion a stop-gap QB is going to cost anywhere in the neighborhood of what Manning costs this year is funny.
There's much more supply than demand this year. Tannehil, Taylor, Bridgewater, McCown, Fitzpatrick, maybe Bortles and a few others will be available.
You get outside of the top 30 or so salaries (and even excluding rookie deals) -- guys aren't making 17M a year.
Signing any of those QB's would be a complete waste of money.
Kind of like signing Kurt Warner to keep the seat warm was a complete waste of money?
Awful comparison. Kurt Warner was not only a Super Bowl champion/MVP, but he was still actually a pretty good QB.
He had some very good years in Arizona after he left here and was still a starting caliber NFL QB. They went to a Super Bowl with him, if you recall.
Tyrod Taylor? Blake Bortles?
How old is Josh McCown now? 41?
Cmon. This isn't even close to a comparison.
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Well, if we don’t need the cap space and Eli has all this gas left in the tank, why not pay him another $90M / 3 yrs?
May as well lock up this still great player who is more mobile than ever, a stronger arm than ever, and stands taller and more poised than ever in the pocket.
Right?
Idiotic argument.
Brady just won the SB and is entering the final year of his deal just like Eli. Why aren’t the Pats extending him? Are the Pats dumb? Does it mean they are locked into drafting his replacement? Does it mean they have to draft his replacement? Does it mean Brady sucks now? No.
When a QB gets to this stage of his career it’s really in the best interest of the organization to take it year by year until you’re certain about the replacement.
With all due respect, comparing Eli to Brady is not your strongest move.
Eli exhibits considerably more signs of his skills eroding than Brady.
Brady is better at 42 than Eli ever was. He’ll be better at 50 than Eli ever was. And the Pats will extend him.
Furthermore, the Pats, well BB, had a succession plan. He tutored JG and had him prime to go. Kraft pulled the owner card, likely via. Brady campaign behind the scenes, and forced the JG trade.
And yet as of now Brady is entering the ‘19 season on the last year of his deal.
Your QB options are trash. When was the last time a trade for a QB worked out? No one in the FA market is a lock to be an upgrade over Eli, and none of them will be cheap. Look at Tyrod’s Contract with the Browns.
The play for Gettleman is to use this off-season to continue to rebuild the core of the team that Reese allowed to rot. Find some pieces in FA for the OL/front 7 on defense. Draft to the strength of the draft and find an ER or two and OL help. Let the other teams make a spaz decision at QB and wait until you find the QB you actually have a consensus on as the future.
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Because the known isn't getting us anywhere, and it is more expensive.
So, you don't want to hear anyone talk about hopefully's, have been clamoring for a "plan" for months and months now, but are comfortable with a plan that entails basically just going in totally blind and hitching your wagon to a complete unknown.
Where's the logic here? That's not a plan. That's throwing shit at a wall.
It is a plan. It's going in a different direction at quarterback, which is sorely needed. I outlined three options within that plan.
What isn't a plan is what actually being done. That is just coasting to another losing season and putting this issue off another year.
I'd agree that going with Lauletta is the weakest of the three options, but it's still a better option than what the Giants are actually doing.
And at least his game fits the modern game. Good arm, he’s mobile and he’s 25. He may not be the long term answer, but the investment for him is a helluva lot cheaper than still riding a 38 year old horse that can barely move.
Look, I know the reality of this franchise. Eli will likely be extended, and eat up 13-15% of valuable cap dollars that can be better invested elsewhere, and we’ll win anywhere from 6 to 9 games. And 365 days from know, there still won’t be a real succession plan, and the same pro and con Eli arguments will exist.
Meanwhile, what could have been - Mahomes, Darnold, Rosen, whomever, will be showcasing their skills and reminding us what could have been...
But, hey. Go Barkley! Right?
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In comment 14291898 Go Terps said:
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Because the known isn't getting us anywhere, and it is more expensive.
So, you don't want to hear anyone talk about hopefully's, have been clamoring for a "plan" for months and months now, but are comfortable with a plan that entails basically just going in totally blind and hitching your wagon to a complete unknown.
Where's the logic here? That's not a plan. That's throwing shit at a wall.
It is a plan. It's going in a different direction at quarterback, which is sorely needed. I outlined three options within that plan.
What isn't a plan is what actually being done. That is just coasting to another losing season and putting this issue off another year.
I'd agree that going with Lauletta is the weakest of the three options, but it's still a better option than what the Giants are actually doing.
The problem is, it’s going in a different direction like that chicken once it’s neck has been wrung. It’s brownian, which is really no direction at all.
Right now only thing of mere substance is that a few people around think ultimately a portion of Eli's contract will be turned into incentives. That Manning's value if he's released is likely no more than 15 million with no guarantee he's the starter. If Jacksonville wasn't in the QB hunt Eli's opportunities would be bleak. He has little bargaining power if he wants to finish his career with NYG. Based on that and assuming they want him back, I think its reasonable to believe both sides will work out an amicable agreement. If not, he'll land in Jacksonville for obvious reasons.
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so who is your choice for QB, and what do you think it will take to get him?
If I recall correctly, bw has espoused taking a second tier QB in round 2 (possibly trading to get back into low round 1).
I don't remember Go Terps advocating any alternative. Most just yells to get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli.
Is there any particular QB either of you want to draft? or is it anyone but Eli?
I've suggested an alternative several times. The way I see it, we have the viable options after cutting Eli:
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter and Tanney the backup
2. Draft a QB and let him compete with Lauletta for the starting job
3. Trade for an inexpensive backup from someone else's roster. Names of the top of my head include Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett, Mason Rudolph, Josh Dobbs, Nick Mullens, and Jeff Driskell.
Each of those is a viable, realistic alternative and preferable to overpaying Eli (or Files or Flacco).
Every single one of these options comes with risk, some come with limited upside and most aren’t even certain to be a viable option. I don’t hate any of them with the first one being the exception.
So when the giants OL is a little better and the D has 3 much needed additions playing and it’s November of 2019, and the offense STILL struggles because we have jeff fucking driskell at qb, will you be happy that the qb is making peanuts, but struggling because he’s jeff fucking driskell who has never played in shurmurs offense, I think, and has never been faced with nfl starting pressure......
Or we could stay with the known vet qb in Eli, who knows this offense after taking his lumps first half 2018 and flourished second half last year IN THIS SAME exact offense.
And of course, draft the qb this April if he’s there. Why on earth this is considered so terrible and even taboo by giants fans I’ll never know.
There’s a distinct possibility that the giants will be better next season around the qb. The talent on D and OL will be upgraded. The qb will be in a position to succeed. This moment right here reminds me of when the giants fired coughlin and let mcadoo coach a team that had more talent than any giants team since 2008. That 2016 team was loaded. They rebuild in 14 and 15, fight like hell in 15 when that team really had no business winning, then spend all the money on defense and fire coughlin. Fans were thrilled.
You finally have a well rounded offense here assuming we even add just one more legit starter on the OL and NOW we just have to cut Eli and sign some backup qb from another team? Now? With Eli sitting on his final year? That makes no sense to me. If you’re gonna replace Eli it better be with a young talented up n comer not some potential journeymen or backup who looks good in August. What’s the point...
And at least his game fits the modern game. Good arm, he’s mobile and he’s 25. He may not be the long term answer, but the investment for him is a helluva lot cheaper than still riding a 38 year old horse that can barely move.
Look, I know the reality of this franchise. Eli will likely be extended, and eat up 13-15% of valuable cap dollars that can be better invested elsewhere, and we’ll win anywhere from 6 to 9 games. And 365 days from know, there still won’t be a real succession plan, and the same pro and con Eli arguments will exist.
Meanwhile, what could have been - Mahomes, Darnold, Rosen, whomever, will be showcasing their skills and reminding us what could have been...
But, hey. Go Barkley! Right?
The goal should be to make a move at QB that’s in the best interest of the franchise long term. Not change for the sake of change or cap space. Cap space that no one here earmarked for any notable targets in FA, and not necessary to retain anyone they want to keep.
The Giants will have an opportunity to get a guy they really want at the position in the not so distant future. There’s no need to force the issue and lose out on that opportunity because the franchise is invested in an inferior player.
That is absolutely not the case.
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There’s Giants that plays into the calculus at all.
That is absolutely not the case.
It absolutely is. As you’ve laid up numerous times. Incessantly even.
And at least his game fits the modern game. Good arm, he’s mobile and he’s 25. He may not be the long term answer, but the investment for him is a helluva lot cheaper than still riding a 38 year old horse that can barely move.
Look, I know the reality of this franchise. Eli will likely be extended, and eat up 13-15% of valuable cap dollars that can be better invested elsewhere, and we’ll win anywhere from 6 to 9 games. And 365 days from know, there still won’t be a real succession plan, and the same pro and con Eli arguments will exist.
Meanwhile, what could have been - Mahomes, Darnold, Rosen, whomever, will be showcasing their skills and reminding us what could have been...
But, hey. Go Barkley! Right?
Yeah I can’t believe we didn’t draft Mahomes when we had the chance!!! Who did we take instead? Please remind me. Oh and Rosen and Darnold are complete trash compared to Barkley.
The Giants *might* improve vastly. That could happen. As it stands basically every unit on offense outside of RB needs improvement. Every unit, literally every unit on defense needs improvement.
The Giants team that had that little streak of games, has to replace or improve a lot of players. They won't have 4 top 70 picks and they won't have nearly as much cap space to spend.
The Giants *might* improve vastly. That could happen. As it stands basically every unit on offense outside of RB needs improvement. Every unit, literally every unit on defense needs improvement.
The Giants team that had that little streak of games, has to replace or improve a lot of players. They won't have 4 top 70 picks and they won't have nearly as much cap space to spend.
The Giants had 23 mil in space this time last year and they have at least 27 mil now.
The goal should be to make a move at QB that’s in the best interest of the franchise long term. Not change for the sake of change or cap space. Cap space that no one here earmarked for any notable targets in FA, and not necessary to retain anyone they want to keep.
The Giants will have an opportunity to get a guy they really want at the position in the not so distant future. There’s no need to force the issue and lose out on that opportunity because the franchise is invested in an inferior player.
Back to the Driskell idea.
Driskell’s cap hit is $720K for 2019. Basically, he’s $22M+ cheaper than Eli. He’s mobile and athletic. A guy with some decent NFL experience who could do traditional QB duties, RPOs, and designs out of the pocket.
In other words, probably a better compliment to Barkley.
I’m not at all suggesting anything great with Driskell. But in all likelihood, the difference in win totals isn’t that great between Eli and him. So in each case, we’re likely going nowhere.
So what’s better for the team? We’re losing with both (just playing the odds). However, we’re saving $22M in one case; and in the other case, it’s a chance to see a slower, older Eli play again?
+$22M in cap or walking down memory lane...
I think the answer is fairly clear.
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The goal should be to make a move at QB that’s in the best interest of the franchise long term. Not change for the sake of change or cap space. Cap space that no one here earmarked for any notable targets in FA, and not necessary to retain anyone they want to keep.
The Giants will have an opportunity to get a guy they really want at the position in the not so distant future. There’s no need to force the issue and lose out on that opportunity because the franchise is invested in an inferior player.
Back to the Driskell idea.
Driskell’s cap hit is $720K for 2019. Basically, he’s $22M+ cheaper than Eli. He’s mobile and athletic. A guy with some decent NFL experience who could do traditional QB duties, RPOs, and designs out of the pocket.
In other words, probably a better compliment to Barkley.
I’m not at all suggesting anything great with Driskell. But in all likelihood, the difference in win totals isn’t that great between Eli and him. So in each case, we’re likely going nowhere.
So what’s better for the team? We’re losing with both (just playing the odds). However, we’re saving $22M in one case; and in the other case, it’s a chance to see a slower, older Eli play again?
+$22M in cap or walking down memory lane...
I think the answer is fairly clear.
1. The Giants would have to trade assets to acquire him, assuming the Bengals are even willing to part ways.
2. He’s entering the last year of his rookie deal. So toss out your economics argument.
3. If the Giants did trade for him, it would be because they view him as a long term solution at QB. That means the Giants are invested in him for a minimum of 3 years, probably more, and pass on every potential franchise QB in the draft during that time span.
What you’re proposing is a tried and failed model that’s completely short sighted. At best the Giants become the Miami Dolphins for the next 10 years.
Any moving away from Eli should be a movement toward a long term solution, NOT hopscotching around with 'ah, what the hell, try X, maybe he'll be better, anybody but Eli'
the boat has a leak in it, and surely needs upgrading. That doesn't mean we should jump out in the middle of the ocean and cling to any old flotsam.
bw said on another thread that he didn't trust one of the draft options (Haskins?) because the talent around him was so good that he had time in the pocket to relax and make thoughtful decisions. The problem with Eli is that he hasn't had the time to relax. He's shell shocked, and the 'it' factor comes and goes. Work on the OL, give Eli a reliable pocket and time to relax. I think you'll see an Eli who is good enough until the right replacement can be found.
If they think a backup, or a draft pick is the right long term solution, then go for it. But the argument should start with 'we found a good replacement', not centered around 'anybody but Eli'.
1. The Giants would have to trade assets to acquire him, assuming the Bengals are even willing to part ways.
2. He’s entering the last year of his rookie deal. So toss out your economics argument.
3. If the Giants did trade for him, it would be because they view him as a long term solution at QB. That means the Giants are invested in him for a minimum of 3 years, probably more, and pass on every potential franchise QB in the draft during that time span.
What you’re proposing is a tried and failed model that’s completely short sighted. At best the Giants become the Miami Dolphins for the next 10 years.
Failed model? The team is failing now with a 38 year old QB at the helm. Basically, we’ve been the Dolphins for the last seven years.
What assets to acquire him? A fourth rounder? It’s Jeff Driskell. And yes, I’m assuming a trade could be worked out. So play along.
As far as I’m concerned, Driskell would be a one year rental. The Patriots make similar moves all of the time, trying to acquire potentially undervalued asses.
Driskell has one year left on his contract at $720K. If he works and we hit on it, great. Then we consider something longer. But here’s what you’re missing - I’m trying to free up money NOW from Eli’s contract to improve other areas of the team. That’s material money to invest.
Meanwhile, I’m also drafting a QB from this draft. Preferably early - say, the second round. So I’m not stopping at Driskell. I’m getting younger and more athletic at QB. I want a QB competition right now.
Again, and let me underscore this, with or without Eli this year, we are very, very likely going nowhere. I know the Eli-always-has-excuses crowd think there is another run there, because they see Eli on the same level as Brees or Brady with poorer management, but I’m siding with the football actuarial tables on this one.
So let’s get younger, save cap dollars, and get into a QB competition to see the future...
You know what would impress me? Honesty. I wish posters would just what they are really thinking - they really want to see Eli keep playing. He’s an important piece of Giants history, so let him go out on his terms. Trying to camouflage that with this other non-sense that I read - mentor the next QB, he’s an oline away from making us a contender, etc - really pushes this organization deeper into a hole.
Let’s start digging out of it now.
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I think many of you extremely overrate the talent on this team, as did many last year.
The Giants *might* improve vastly. That could happen. As it stands basically every unit on offense outside of RB needs improvement. Every unit, literally every unit on defense needs improvement.
The Giants team that had that little streak of games, has to replace or improve a lot of players. They won't have 4 top 70 picks and they won't have nearly as much cap space to spend.
The Giants had 23 mil in space this time last year and they have at least 27 mil now.
Dave Gettleman dished out ~110M in guaranteed money last offseason -- impacting the medium term cap space across a few years, where money is realistically spent.
It's an almost certainty he will not be spending that type of money this offseason.
If they're going with Eli for the year, it's either give him more money for an extension, or stick with the contract as is.
I'd rather not extend and push dead money on next year.
The question is whether to go with Eli this year, or cut him.
As I've said before, keeping Eli for the last year of his contract does not prevent bringing in FA this year. First year cap hit is typically low, then will be escalating when Eli's hit is coming off the books.
The Giants don't have leverage? 2/3 of his 2019 money is nonguaranteed, and that's assuming they don't use the roster bonus itself as leverage. That's their leverage. It's at least questionable that Eli gets $17MM on the open market, but even if he were to, is he willing to play that game and finish his career with a different team over a couple of million that the Giants would ostensibly be using to fortify the roster around him?
If this is true, I assume that this is exactly what Gettleman was talking about when he said that Eli "took [him] to the low post and won." The conversation about a potential pay cut may have already happened and Eli (or Condon, more likely) already refused.
I don't know what you guys are thinking. Manning is due $17 million this year. Foles got $20 million. Garappolo $18. Alex Smith $18 Keenum $15. After Keenum, you are talking about guys on rookie deals and backups.
Manning is not overpaid as a vet starting qb. His salary and cap hit do not prevent the Giants from drafting a qb or picking up someone's failed #1 pick like Bridgewater or getting someone else's cut in preseason.
Does Manning want to uproot or be away from his infant child and family? Does he want to learn and potentially struggle as he settles into another system? Does he want to face the criticism from a fanbase and media without the benifit of being a Super Bowl hero to them?
Forget about money -- is Eli Manning willing to play football somewhere else.
I don't think the Giants will or should set out to screw Manning. I'd like to see an extension that turns the guarantees into incentives based on success.
If the Giants have a winning year and Manning plays well -- compensate him and create a path to 2020. If the Giants have a losing year and Manning plays poorly, cut down the cost and call it a career.
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Well, if we don’t need the cap space and Eli has all this gas left in the tank, why not pay him another $90M / 3 yrs?
May as well lock up this still great player who is more mobile than ever, a stronger arm than ever, and stands taller and more poised than ever in the pocket.
Right?
Idiotic argument.
Brady just won the SB and is entering the final year of his deal just like Eli. Why aren’t the Pats extending him? Are the Pats dumb? Does it mean they are locked into drafting his replacement? Does it mean they have to draft his replacement? Does it mean Brady sucks now? No.
When a QB gets to this stage of his career it’s really in the best interest of the organization to take it year by year until you’re certain about the replacement.
With all due respect, comparing Eli to Brady is not your strongest move.
Eli exhibits considerably more signs of his skills eroding than Brady.
Brady is better at 42 than Eli ever was. He’ll be better at 50 than Eli ever was. And the Pats will extend him.
Furthermore, the Pats, well BB, had a succession plan. He tutored JG and had him prime to go. Kraft pulled the owner card, likely via. Brady campaign behind the scenes, and forced the JG trade.
Brady threw 2 td passes in the postseason against 3 picks while being sacked 1 time in 3 games- once. The Pats averaged 160 yards a game rushing in 3 playoff games. You don't think Eli could play behind that line?
Little Bill and the FO know their business. With a 43 y/o qb they re-built the line and running backs so as to protect Brady and not have to rely on him.
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In comment 14291851 WillVAB said:
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Well, if we don’t need the cap space and Eli has all this gas left in the tank, why not pay him another $90M / 3 yrs?
May as well lock up this still great player who is more mobile than ever, a stronger arm than ever, and stands taller and more poised than ever in the pocket.
Right?
Idiotic argument.
Brady just won the SB and is entering the final year of his deal just like Eli. Why aren’t the Pats extending him? Are the Pats dumb? Does it mean they are locked into drafting his replacement? Does it mean they have to draft his replacement? Does it mean Brady sucks now? No.
When a QB gets to this stage of his career it’s really in the best interest of the organization to take it year by year until you’re certain about the replacement.
With all due respect, comparing Eli to Brady is not your strongest move.
Eli exhibits considerably more signs of his skills eroding than Brady.
Brady is better at 42 than Eli ever was. He’ll be better at 50 than Eli ever was. And the Pats will extend him.
Furthermore, the Pats, well BB, had a succession plan. He tutored JG and had him prime to go. Kraft pulled the owner card, likely via. Brady campaign behind the scenes, and forced the JG trade.
Bullshit. The Pats have transformed their offense with the line and running backs; Brady got the headlines but the o-line and running game got the Pats the Lombardi- 3rd in rushing attempts, 5th in yardage and 4th in rushing td's on the season. Everyone so fixated on Brady, they didn't look to see what the Pats were actually doing.
Brady threw 2 td passes in the postseason against 3 picks while being sacked 1 time in 3 games- once. The Pats averaged 160 yards a game rushing in 3 playoff games. You don't think Eli could play behind that line?
Little Bill and the FO know their business. With a 43 y/o qb they re-built the line and running backs so as to protect Brady and not have to rely on him.
I personally don't think Eli could. The offensive line was decent, but a big part of him not taking sacks was two things. They played the Chargers, Chiefs, and Rams. Three defenses whose weakness is against the run with a fullback. The Chargers and Chiefs woefully bad. The game plan was to run, run, and run some more. Brady also gets rid of the ball extremely fast. Not that Eli isn't capable of this, but Eli's accuracy is a far cry from where Brady can operate in the short passing game. Brady made the throws when they needed them and moved the chains. Brady's TD total had the potential to be much higher if they decided to throw the ball into the end zone which they never had to.
Also has had better results than the Giants the past seven years.
So instead of trying something new, lets trot out the 38 year old bottom tier QB for one more run.
When the team starts off like shit again and trades away good players for nothing at the trade deadline idiots can call it a rebuilding season again.
Bullshit. The Pats have transformed their offense with the line and running backs; Brady got the headlines but the o-line and running game got the Pats the Lombardi- 3rd in rushing attempts, 5th in yardage and 4th in rushing td's on the season. Everyone so fixated on Brady, they didn't look to see what the Pats were actually doing.
Brady threw 2 td passes in the postseason against 3 picks while being sacked 1 time in 3 games- once. The Pats averaged 160 yards a game rushing in 3 playoff games. You don't think Eli could play behind that line?
Little Bill and the FO know their business. With a 43 y/o qb they re-built the line and running backs so as to protect Brady and not have to rely on him.
Well, this thread isn't about Pats Central v Jints Central. Or Brady v Eli.
But, yes, I think Eli could play behind the Pats oline. Playing and being as productive, however, are two different discussions. It helps that Brady is fearless and has a PhD in pocket skills.
Furthermore, I don't think we have the brainpower or creativity, like the Pats (who really does, right?), to create an optimal situation for Eli. That's why all this talk of keeping him, and continuing to build around him, is a waste of time and money.
For the record, when it mattered most, Brady led the game winning drive in OT in KC converting 3 straight 3rd and tens. Without that, I'm not sure there is trophy #6.
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In comment 14292094 christian said:
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I think many of you extremely overrate the talent on this team, as did many last year.
The Giants *might* improve vastly. That could happen. As it stands basically every unit on offense outside of RB needs improvement. Every unit, literally every unit on defense needs improvement.
The Giants team that had that little streak of games, has to replace or improve a lot of players. They won't have 4 top 70 picks and they won't have nearly as much cap space to spend.
The Giants had 23 mil in space this time last year and they have at least 27 mil now.
Dave Gettleman dished out ~110M in guaranteed money last offseason -- impacting the medium term cap space across a few years, where money is realistically spent.
It's an almost certainty he will not be spending that type of money this offseason.
The cap is a non-issue, especially so after he cuts Vernon and Ellison.
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1. The Giants would have to trade assets to acquire him, assuming the Bengals are even willing to part ways.
2. He’s entering the last year of his rookie deal. So toss out your economics argument.
3. If the Giants did trade for him, it would be because they view him as a long term solution at QB. That means the Giants are invested in him for a minimum of 3 years, probably more, and pass on every potential franchise QB in the draft during that time span.
What you’re proposing is a tried and failed model that’s completely short sighted. At best the Giants become the Miami Dolphins for the next 10 years.
Failed model? The team is failing now with a 38 year old QB at the helm. Basically, we’ve been the Dolphins for the last seven years.
What assets to acquire him? A fourth rounder? It’s Jeff Driskell. And yes, I’m assuming a trade could be worked out. So play along.
As far as I’m concerned, Driskell would be a one year rental. The Patriots make similar moves all of the time, trying to acquire potentially undervalued asses.
Driskell has one year left on his contract at $720K. If he works and we hit on it, great. Then we consider something longer. But here’s what you’re missing - I’m trying to free up money NOW from Eli’s contract to improve other areas of the team. That’s material money to invest.
Meanwhile, I’m also drafting a QB from this draft. Preferably early - say, the second round. So I’m not stopping at Driskell. I’m getting younger and more athletic at QB. I want a QB competition right now.
Again, and let me underscore this, with or without Eli this year, we are very, very likely going nowhere. I know the Eli-always-has-excuses crowd think there is another run there, because they see Eli on the same level as Brees or Brady with poorer management, but I’m siding with the football actuarial tables on this one.
So let’s get younger, save cap dollars, and get into a QB competition to see the future...
You know what would impress me? Honesty. I wish posters would just what they are really thinking - they really want to see Eli keep playing. He’s an important piece of Giants history, so let him go out on his terms. Trying to camouflage that with this other non-sense that I read - mentor the next QB, he’s an oline away from making us a contender, etc - really pushes this organization deeper into a hole.
Let’s start digging out of it now.
Great, let’s waste a 2 and a 4 on lottery tickets with a close to zero percent chance the Giants will end up appreciably better at the QB position relative to the rest of the league.
And for the 10th time, who exactly are you buying with Eli’s money?
And if the Giants are in a position to draft Fromm, Tua, Herbert, etc — that’s gone. Now you’re committed to the next Tannehill.
It’s a terrible plan. The Giants should be looking for a long term answer that gives them a competitive advantage at the position, not simply treading water.
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In comment 14292105 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14292094 christian said:
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I think many of you extremely overrate the talent on this team, as did many last year.
The Giants *might* improve vastly. That could happen. As it stands basically every unit on offense outside of RB needs improvement. Every unit, literally every unit on defense needs improvement.
The Giants team that had that little streak of games, has to replace or improve a lot of players. They won't have 4 top 70 picks and they won't have nearly as much cap space to spend.
The Giants had 23 mil in space this time last year and they have at least 27 mil now.
Dave Gettleman dished out ~110M in guaranteed money last offseason -- impacting the medium term cap space across a few years, where money is realistically spent.
It's an almost certainty he will not be spending that type of money this offseason.
The cap is a non-issue, especially so after he cuts Vernon and Ellison.
Hmmmmm ... So adding an additional ~17M via cuts helps the cap situation? It's almost like that's been brought up somewhere.
I think your second sentence is a straw man. No one is saying build around him. The only issue is the stated necessity of cutting him now and not letting him play out the last year of his contract. On that one, I disagree for the reasons previously stated.
Eventually we will have a good team with talent everywhere. Barkley was a sure thing, the QB's weren't, so we did the right thing. Eventually we will get a QB too.
Eventually we will have a good team with talent everywhere. Barkley was a sure thing, the QB's weren't, so we did the right thing. Eventually we will get a QB too.
Patiently building up a team is the right approach -- but at some point you have to get the QB who's a cornerstone for your run.
I tend to believe a good quarterback is much more the product of the situation than the inverse.
A young, skillsy QB, with the requisite talent can build into a winner in the NFL. Doesn't need to be a top 5 pick as repeatedly shown all over the league.
The Giants themselves are just many players away right now -- and it's going to take this and likely another offseason for the "window" to begin.
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In comment 14292159 christian said:
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In comment 14292105 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14292094 christian said:
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I think many of you extremely overrate the talent on this team, as did many last year.
The Giants *might* improve vastly. That could happen. As it stands basically every unit on offense outside of RB needs improvement. Every unit, literally every unit on defense needs improvement.
The Giants team that had that little streak of games, has to replace or improve a lot of players. They won't have 4 top 70 picks and they won't have nearly as much cap space to spend.
The Giants had 23 mil in space this time last year and they have at least 27 mil now.
Dave Gettleman dished out ~110M in guaranteed money last offseason -- impacting the medium term cap space across a few years, where money is realistically spent.
It's an almost certainty he will not be spending that type of money this offseason.
The cap is a non-issue, especially so after he cuts Vernon and Ellison.
Hmmmmm ... So adding an additional ~17M via cuts helps the cap situation? It's almost like that's been brought up somewhere.
The point is they don’t need Eli’s money. Vernon is the worst contract on the team, maybe the worst in the league. Vernon and Ellison also have multiple years left on their deals. If there’s a FA interested in coming here and the Giants need space to acquire him, those two contracts are the ones to cut first.
If the Giants had multiple studs up for a new contracts I could see the reasoning behind fretting over Eli’s cap hit, but they don’t. Anyone they could target in FA is speculative and there’s teams with more space even if the Giants cut Eli.
Eventually we will have a good team with talent everywhere. Barkley was a sure thing, the QB's weren't, so we did the right thing. Eventually we will get a QB too.
Agreed that the overall roster comes before any individual need...its the prudent play in building value and longer term stability. However, not all positions are created equal in determining success and the time it takes to reach it. "Eventually" at QB portrays a time-line that is unacceptable though and needs to incorporate a better combination of risk/reward. That doesn't mean forcing poor QB decisions but it certainly requires taking some actions on that front as it isn't going to just show up on our doorstep some day...
Brady threw 2 td passes in the postseason against 3 picks while being sacked 1 time in 3 games- once. The Pats averaged 160 yards a game rushing in 3 playoff games. You don't think Eli could play behind that line?"
and yet, when people suggest improving the lines and the running game, they get derided as wasting another year and a top pick going all in on Eli.
Keeping him either makes sense or it doesn't. It doesn't.
How on earth under any and all scenarios does it make no sense to keep Eli if we draft a kid this April? What if the kid isn’t ready? What if the team IS ready?
You don’t allow for any middle ground thinking. That’s insane.
The giants have been flushing this roster for a full calendar year now. Many more high priced vets are slowly if not swiftly being phased out here, and yes that includes Eli. You sure here and talk about cap room and Eli’s cap hit and how much space this year vs last year and it’s all garbage to me. It’s useless conjecture being delivered as fact. Save it.
DG and Shurmur are flushing out the old and changing the entire dynamic of this roster. You might not see it but it’s as clear as day. This isn’t an all in on Eli thing. The cap is the least of our concerns. Tons of money is opening up these next two years.
If you cut him after the roster bonus you are saving 12 million and still need to bring in a veteran starter because Haskins is a one year starter. Highly unlikely he'll be ready to be an opening day starter, maybe not even ready at all his rookie year. So let's say you bring in a guy at about 5 million. That's savings of 7 million. Drafting a QB is a franchise changing investment. I think that 7 million is worth the type of knowledge and wisdom Eli can impart on him.
bw said on another thread that he didn't trust one of the draft options (Haskins?) because the talent around him was so good that he had time in the pocket to relax and make thoughtful decisions. The problem with Eli is that he hasn't had the time to relax. He's shell shocked, and the 'it' factor comes and goes. Work on the OL, give Eli a reliable pocket and time to relax. I think you'll see an Eli who is good enough until the right replacement can be found.
If they think a backup, or a draft pick is the right long term solution, then go for it. But the argument should start with 'we found a good replacement', not centered around 'anybody but Eli'.
Just saw this after re-reading some of the content.
What I said, or have said but maybe I didn't make it clear, was that I wouldn't take Haskins at #6. Later in the draft? Sure.
As much as Murray scares me with his size, and believe it or not I actually find him more interesting than Haskins, Haskins scares me having played in such a club-med offense at OSU.
1) Keep Manning and the core talent on the roster and try and win now
2) Keep Manning as a placeholder, trim costs elsewhere and build toward the future
3) Cut Manning and trim costs elsewhere and build towards the future
On paper right now the Giants don't have a lot of cap room comparatively. If this is a "win now" team they'll need to add a decent amount of talent and keep the talent they have.
It's easy to say cut Vernon, Ellison etc. but you have to replace that talent while adding more talent. Is that likely or easy? Of course not.
The Giants just aren't that talented -- and it's going to take more fiscal discipline, with the current and future roster.
It's going to take a major miracle to get that imbalance right in the time Manning is the QB.
The giants have been flushing this roster for a full calendar year now. Many more high priced vets are slowly if not swiftly being phased out here, and yes that includes Eli. You sure here and talk about cap room and Eli’s cap hit and how much space this year vs last year and it’s all garbage to me. It’s useless conjecture being delivered as fact. Save it.
DG and Shurmur are flushing out the old and changing the entire dynamic of this roster. You might not see it but it’s as clear as day. This isn’t an all in on Eli thing. The cap is the least of our concerns. Tons of money is opening up these next two years.
When you say the next two years, do you mean 19 & 20, or 20 & 21 -- if it's the former -- what is your definition of a "ton?"
The Giants would need to cut a number of players to be in the neighborhood of the teams with the most cap room.
1) Keep Manning and the core talent on the roster and try and win now
2) Keep Manning as a placeholder, trim costs elsewhere and build toward the future
3) Cut Manning and trim costs elsewhere and build towards the future
On paper right now the Giants don't have a lot of cap room comparatively. If this is a "win now" team they'll need to add a decent amount of talent and keep the talent they have.
It's easy to say cut Vernon, Ellison etc. but you have to replace that talent while adding more talent. Is that likely or easy? Of course not.
The Giants just aren't that talented -- and it's going to take more fiscal discipline, with the current and future roster.
It's going to take a major miracle to get that imbalance right in the time Manning is the QB.
I wouldn’t call Vernon and Ellison “talent.” Vernon hasn’t done shit in two years and Ellison plays a role that’s usually occupied by a late round draft pick. Vernon’s upgrade will come in the form of a cost controlled ER via the draft. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the Giants come away w two ER’s in the draft.
The Giants don’t have many bad contracts on the books. Space will open up as they need it.
1) Keep Manning and the core talent on the roster and try and win now
2) Keep Manning as a placeholder, trim costs elsewhere and build toward the future
3) Cut Manning and trim costs elsewhere and build towards the future
On paper right now the Giants don't have a lot of cap room comparatively. If this is a "win now" team they'll need to add a decent amount of talent and keep the talent they have.
It's easy to say cut Vernon, Ellison etc. but you have to replace that talent while adding more talent. Is that likely or easy? Of course not.
The Giants just aren't that talented -- and it's going to take more fiscal discipline, with the current and future roster.
It's going to take a major miracle to get that imbalance right in the time Manning is the QB.
I don't see a difference between #1 and #2.
Manning IS a placeholder in either scenario. He is 38. Two years or so realistically left. He is also capable of winning games if the roster is improved.
Do we all agree the Giants need more talent to eclipse the 5-11 mark and compete for the playoffs?
So hypothetically let's say the Giants eat and cut every bad contract -- the Giants get closer but aren't near the top of cap room over the next two years. They also create more holes to fill.
So let's say some of those contracts underperformed. Don't you need to exceed the contributions at those positions and upgrade the contribution at other positions to actually get better?
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. It can be strategic.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. It can be strategic.
Sure -- so what are some of those strategic moves?
I'm all for moving away from Vernon and Ellison. I'm also all for moving on from Martin.
But that creates positions where starters need to be replaced, where the replacements aren't guaranteed to be cheaper nor more productive than the incumbents.
So just practically the Giants need a center, right guard, right tackle, WR2, TE2 on offense.
Defensively a DE, 2 Edge Rushers, SS, FS, CB, nickle corner.
In my estimate that's an incredibly big task in a year.
Dave Gettleman started the purge midseason this year after the 1-7 start.
That shows me the guy isn't afraid to make hard moves. And on that same token, it shows me he'll cut Eli or move on from him when he strategically thinks it's time to do so.
So why the urgency to grab at temporary fixes? Why the disparaging of the Giants over picking Barkley?
Instead of berating the Giants and being a prime cheerleader of the 'dump Eli' club, some of your comments indicate that you should be applauding the Giants for attempting to stay relevant and that they don't need to be desperate in the search for Eli's replacement.
Dave Gettleman started the purge midseason this year after the 1-7 start.
That shows me the guy isn't afraid to make hard moves. And on that same token, it shows me he'll cut Eli or move on from him when he strategically thinks it's time to do so.
I think Manning does and should garner more consideration than any other player.
Even for a fan like me who's never had much personal connection to him -- I want to see the organization treat him well. And I suspect ownership and management know it's in their business and financial interest to do so.
I don't envy Gettleman. Especially when Manning shows up like he did in the back half of the season and shows he still belongs in the NFL.
If Manning was truly shot it would be much easier. He's not shot, I just think the Giants are in too deep of a hole to be a winner next year.
I hope no matter who is at QB Gettleman continues to be patient and builds up talent as the value presents itself.
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you can cut some and save others that are useful to you in the meantime. It's all about managing your assets.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. It can be strategic.
Sure -- so what are some of those strategic moves?
I'm all for moving away from Vernon and Ellison. I'm also all for moving on from Martin.
But that creates positions where starters need to be replaced, where the replacements aren't guaranteed to be cheaper nor more productive than the incumbents.
So just practically the Giants need a center, right guard, right tackle, WR2, TE2 on offense.
Defensively a DE, 2 Edge Rushers, SS, FS, CB, nickle corner.
In my estimate that's an incredibly big task in a year.
Yes, there are plenty of needs, but think about it like this: you don't need stars at all of those spots. You don't need young and upcoming players everywhere. You just need guys who will give you an acceptable level of play.
Yes, we need to hit big on a few picks, as well, but you just need acceptable levels of play at some of these spots.
Yes, we need to hit big on a few picks, as well, but you just need acceptable levels of play at some of these spots.
Do you think the incumbents were playing at an acceptable level? I assume not, given 5-11.
I think finding even just acceptable at all those spots, not to mention the depth needed to survive a season is a tough task in one year.
Put it this way -- with 4 top 70 picks, and spending 110M in guaranteed money, how many positions did Gettleman upgrade to acceptable last offseason?
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Yes, we need to hit big on a few picks, as well, but you just need acceptable levels of play at some of these spots.
Do you think the incumbents were playing at an acceptable level? I assume not, given 5-11.
I think finding even just acceptable at all those spots, not to mention the depth needed to survive a season is a tough task in one year.
Put it this way -- with 4 top 70 picks, and spending 110M in guaranteed money, how many positions did Gettleman upgrade to acceptable last offseason?
The Giants can be a playoff team with scrub starters at some areas if they’re strong in the right areas. The Eagles had a garbage secondary and were potentially a dropped pass away from the NFCC.
Can they turn the OL into a strength? Can they improve the front 7 on D enough this off-season? We’ll see, but it’s certainly possible given what’s likely to be available in FA and the talent in the draft.
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or whatever exorbitant price is healthy for the team with his production. Imagine what the other players think making less then a 10th of that .
Take our lumps now. We will not be any worse in fact we will likely get better quicker
Yeah Curtis Riley, Chad Wheeler, and Spencer Pulley would be all pros if it wasn’t for that way overpaid asshole making 20+ million a year.
Here’s a novel concept. Give current version of Eli a decent line and a defense that can make a stop in the 4th quarter, and maybe things are improved. Last off-season was a good draft. Let’s have another one and hit on a few FA’s so that when we do get the next Giants quarterback, he can succeed without the weight of the world on his shoulders.
The whole team matters. Old guys like Brady, Brees, Ben, and Rivers don’t have their fan bases clamoring for their replacements. Why? They’re old and make a lot of money too. But, the teams around them are good enough and they continue to achieve and add to their HOF reputations.
Whereas, our Eli, he gets surrounded by stooges for about 7 years of bad drafts and our fan base has members like you in it who ignore basic obvious facts about the sport and question what the locker room thinks of him when about everyone on the current team has said he’s their leader.
Yes, let's pay Eli like a franchise QB but give him the supporting cast that a rookie QB would need, and do so without the low cap cost of that rookie QB. 38 year old athletes get better than they were at 36 or 37 all the time. Shouldn't be a problem.
This is completely untrue. His salary can be converted into unlikely-to-achieve incentives, which translates into immediate cap space (which would then be docked against the team in 2020 if any of those incentives are actually achieved). The Broncos did this recently with Peyton, so it's not something that the Mannings are unfamiliar with.
This idea that the only way to trim salary is by extending is a total myth.
The gap between Brady, Brees, Ben, Rivers, and Eli has been pretty large from 2016-2018 save for Rivers' 2016 season.
The combination of getting the right team in place and having faith that doing so will catapult Eli back into the top ten of QBs - before he ages out of effectiveness - is pretty risky.
Not many QBs play well past age 38, save for Brady, Moon, and Brees (who fell off in the latter half of 2018 regardless).
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The whole team matters. Old guys like Brady, Brees, Ben, and Rivers don’t have their fan bases clamoring for their replacements. Why? They’re old and make a lot of money too. But, the teams around them are good enough and they continue to achieve and add to their HOF reputations.
The gap between Brady, Brees, Ben, Rivers, and Eli has been pretty large from 2016-2018 save for Rivers' 2016 season.
The combination of getting the right team in place and having faith that doing so will catapult Eli back into the top ten of QBs - before he ages out of effectiveness - is pretty risky.
Not many QBs play well past age 38, save for Brady, Moon, and Brees (who fell off in the latter half of 2018 regardless).
Brees arm has been an issue two years in a row in the second half of the season. He refuses to pull the trigger deep anymore because he knows he can't get it there anymore.
Millions that could be spent shoring up the OL, or to fill one of the many other holes, will go to Eli as a lifetime achievement award.
This is how losing franchises operate, and lo and behold, the Giants have been losers for a long time. Get ready for 6-10 at best in 2019.