Evan Silva
@evansilva
Releasing Eli Manning before his $5 million bonus comes due on 3/17 would save $17 million vs the cap, but "the sense is the #Giants will keep Manning" & "requesting a straight pay cut from a player beloved within the organization seems unlikely."
Shurmur being good with QB's doesn't mean he can turn anyone into an NFL-caliber player.
The Giants won't even entertain a plan that entails going into the year with a 4th round QB who played for the Richmond Spiders, took about 5 snaps in a game this year, is an entirely unknown quantity, and Alex Tanney as their options.
Imagine trying to sell that to fans... hah.
Will never happen. Not even worth discussing. Doing that basically says you are comfortable hinging your entire season on a QB situation almost certain to fail.
If Lauletta just completely sucks, there's no season. And that's the most likely scenario. It's a very poor strategy and one that I'm fairly sure won't ever be employed.
Teams don't go into a season that naked at the QB position. I can't think of any team that has gone into a season recently with a strategy like that.
For a guy who keeps mocking everyone for clinging to "hopefully's," you'd be employing a MAJOR one at the most important position on the field.
Nothing would be more hopeful and wishful than handing Kyle Lauletta the starting job without him ever even earning it and just crossing our fingers and hoping it works.
Will never happen.
I mean shit -- there's a draft -- and you know all those 4th and 5th round picks are going to really round out all the talent and depth that's just dripping off this team.
Very, very well played guys.
Quote:
or whatever exorbitant price is healthy for the team with his production. Imagine what the other players think making less then a 10th of that .
Take our lumps now. We will not be any worse in fact we will likely get better quicker
Yeah Curtis Riley, Chad Wheeler, and Spencer Pulley would be all pros if it wasn’t for that way overpaid asshole making 20+ million a year.
Here’s a novel concept. Give current version of Eli a decent line and a defense that can make a stop in the 4th quarter, and maybe things are improved. Last off-season was a good draft. Let’s have another one and hit on a few FA’s so that when we do get the next Giants quarterback, he can succeed without the weight of the world on his shoulders.
The whole team matters. Old guys like Brady, Brees, Ben, and Rivers don’t have their fan bases clamoring for their replacements. Why? They’re old and make a lot of money too. But, the teams around them are good enough and they continue to achieve and add to their HOF reputations.
Whereas, our Eli, he gets surrounded by stooges for about 7 years of bad drafts and our fan base has members like you in it who ignore basic obvious facts about the sport and question what the locker room thinks of him when about everyone on the current team has said he’s their leader.
Those QB's you listed are currently better than Eli save Ben right now (whose subpar play will be exposed next year without Brown and Bell) and I think Steelers fans will be looking hard on Ben next year with a major dip in his statline.
I'm not a fan of the whole stating opinion as fact thing, but I am comfortable doing it here. Lauletta/Tanney will not be a consideration for the 2019 season. You can quote me on that.
I wouldn't give Lauletta the job going he'd play well. I'd give him the job knowing we have the best timing back in the league and another $17M to help make his life easier.
I'm not a fan of the whole stating opinion as fact thing, but I am comfortable doing it here. Lauletta/Tanney will not be a consideration for the 2019 season. You can quote me on that.
Yeah, no shit. It's obviously going to be Eli.
Quote:
The 2019 Giants QB is going to be either Eli Manning, or someone from this rookie class.
I'm not a fan of the whole stating opinion as fact thing, but I am comfortable doing it here. Lauletta/Tanney will not be a consideration for the 2019 season. You can quote me on that.
Yeah, no shit. It's obviously going to be Eli.
So why are you wasting your time with these asinine suggestions? They're off the wall and not ever going to happen.
Just to show that you think way differently than everyone else?
I wouldn't give Lauletta the job going he'd play well. I'd give him the job knowing we have the best timing back in the league and another $17M to help make his life easier.
Manning nb is going to be better than KL. You know that. So, it comes down to whether or not that 17m hamstrings them. There is no indication that it will.
If I recall correctly, bw has espoused taking a second tier QB in round 2 (possibly trading to get back into low round 1).
I don't remember Go Terps advocating any alternative. Most just yells to get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli.
Is there any particular QB either of you want to draft? or is it anyone but Eli?
I’ve suggested a combination of these:
A. Trade for Driskell, who filled in very well for Dalton. He moves very well and has an excellent arm.
B. Definitely draft a QB this year. I have a hard time supporting anyone at #6. So I’d target someone in round 2 or 3. Or grab someone late in the first on a trade up. I mostly like Lock, Grier, Stidham and Finley is growing on me. Murray is an extraordinary college talent. I just don’t trust that size. But I wouldn’t be surprised either if he becomes a star.
C. Keep or cut Lauletta.
So A or B must occur. Then...
If we don’t do A, get C ready to start. And fast track B.
If we get A, also do B, and cut C.
I wouldn't give Lauletta the job going he'd play well. I'd give him the job knowing we have the best timing back in the league and another $17M to help make his life easier.
I've been saying this for a while. What would Eli's salary be and who is signing him if we don't pay the 17 million. There is really no market for his services as the teams that would sign him are really strung by the salary cap. Even if a team had room is anyone paying him more than 15 million?
Quote:
In comment 14291846 xman said:
Quote:
or whatever exorbitant price is healthy for the team with his production. Imagine what the other players think making less then a 10th of that .
Take our lumps now. We will not be any worse in fact we will likely get better quicker
Yeah Curtis Riley, Chad Wheeler, and Spencer Pulley would be all pros if it wasn’t for that way overpaid asshole making 20+ million a year.
Here’s a novel concept. Give current version of Eli a decent line and a defense that can make a stop in the 4th quarter, and maybe things are improved. Last off-season was a good draft. Let’s have another one and hit on a few FA’s so that when we do get the next Giants quarterback, he can succeed without the weight of the world on his shoulders.
The whole team matters. Old guys like Brady, Brees, Ben, and Rivers don’t have their fan bases clamoring for their replacements. Why? They’re old and make a lot of money too. But, the teams around them are good enough and they continue to achieve and add to their HOF reputations.
Whereas, our Eli, he gets surrounded by stooges for about 7 years of bad drafts and our fan base has members like you in it who ignore basic obvious facts about the sport and question what the locker room thinks of him when about everyone on the current team has said he’s their leader.
Those QB's you listed are currently better than Eli save Ben right now (whose subpar play will be exposed next year without Brown and Bell) and I think Steelers fans will be looking hard on Ben next year with a major dip in his statline.
They are better than Eli, sure. But can you honestly tell me that you take any of those guys off their teams and put them in Eli’s spot, the 2018 Giants roster succeeds?
Quote:
In comment 14291869 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The 2019 Giants QB is going to be either Eli Manning, or someone from this rookie class.
I'm not a fan of the whole stating opinion as fact thing, but I am comfortable doing it here. Lauletta/Tanney will not be a consideration for the 2019 season. You can quote me on that.
Yeah, no shit. It's obviously going to be Eli.
So why are you wasting your time with these asinine suggestions? They're off the wall and not ever going to happen.
Just to show that you think way differently than everyone else?
The options do exist. I'm laying them out there to show how fucked up the front office is, because they seem to think it's Eli or nothing.
A competent front office doesn't pay Eli this much money coming off last season.
How often do players in their late 30's on long term deals still represent full contractual value in the final year?
I'd wager the percentage is miniscule.
I don't think anyone here actually believes that Eli's performance in 2019 will match up to the cap hit - you usually anticipate that is going to happen when you sign a player to a deal like this. The end of it is something you typically just need to manage.
It's just that we're in a situation now where absorbing the 6M in dead money + signing a veteran tallies up to basically the same amount for what likely will be worse production.
If we draft a QB @ 6 or in the first round via moving up/down/whatever, then Id be fine cutting bait with Eli and trying to get the rookie as much help as possible.
But I'm not cutting Eli to hand Kyle Lauletta the job completely undeservingly and walking into the season essentially naked at the QB position and I'm also not cutting him so that we can turn around and sign some shitty stopgap like Tyrod Taylor.
If Haskins or Murray are on the team? By all means... I can get on board with cutting Eli loose.
Quote:
In comment 14291874 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14291869 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The 2019 Giants QB is going to be either Eli Manning, or someone from this rookie class.
I'm not a fan of the whole stating opinion as fact thing, but I am comfortable doing it here. Lauletta/Tanney will not be a consideration for the 2019 season. You can quote me on that.
Yeah, no shit. It's obviously going to be Eli.
So why are you wasting your time with these asinine suggestions? They're off the wall and not ever going to happen.
Just to show that you think way differently than everyone else?
The options do exist. I'm laying them out there to show how fucked up the front office is, because they seem to think it's Eli or nothing.
A competent front office doesn't pay Eli this much money coming off last season.
A competent front office also doesn't hinge their season to complete unknowns out of small college programs with essentially zero NFL experience.
Merely suggesting options doesn't mean they're all viable.
Keeping him either makes sense or it doesn't. It doesn't.
There's much more supply than demand this year. Tannehil, Taylor, Bridgewater, McCown, Fitzpatrick, maybe Bortles and a few others will be available.
You get outside of the top 30 or so salaries (and even excluding rookie deals) -- guys aren't making 17M a year.
Well, if we don’t need the cap space and Eli has all this gas left in the tank, why not pay him another $90M / 3 yrs?
May as well lock up this still great player who is more mobile than ever, a stronger arm than ever, and stands taller and more poised than ever in the pocket.
Right?
Idiotic argument.
Brady just won the SB and is entering the final year of his deal just like Eli. Why aren’t the Pats extending him? Are the Pats dumb? Does it mean they are locked into drafting his replacement? Does it mean they have to draft his replacement? Does it mean Brady sucks now? No.
When a QB gets to this stage of his career it’s really in the best interest of the organization to take it year by year until you’re certain about the replacement.
With all due respect, comparing Eli to Brady is not your strongest move.
Eli exhibits considerably more signs of his skills eroding than Brady.
Brady is better at 42 than Eli ever was. He’ll be better at 50 than Eli ever was. And the Pats will extend him.
Furthermore, the Pats, well BB, had a succession plan. He tutored JG and had him prime to go. Kraft pulled the owner card, likely via. Brady campaign behind the scenes, and forced the JG trade.
If we take another developmental QB, then no, I'm not necessarily going to cut him. I'm tired of taking QB's who aren't near the top of their class - if we're taking a QB, take Haskins or Murray and cut the crap. No more Ryan Nassib's, Davis Webb's, and Kyle Lauletta's. Those are lottery tickets with substantially low odds.
If you take a guy in the 1st round, you intend on him being your starting QB in the very near future. Haskins or Murray should be able to play right away if you draft them. They don't necessarily need to, but they should be able to. So, I'm fine cutting Eli if we draft one of them.
If it's Jones, I'm not going to be thrilled, but I'm guessing he'd be drafted within the first 2 rounds with full intention of him being the heir apparent.
Regardless - if it's a rookie they're drafting this year, so be it. But I wouldn't be on board with any plan that included handing Lauletta the job based on nothing other than cap space.
There's much more supply than demand this year. Tannehil, Taylor, Bridgewater, McCown, Fitzpatrick, maybe Bortles and a few others will be available.
You get outside of the top 30 or so salaries (and even excluding rookie deals) -- guys aren't making 17M a year.
Signing any of those QB's would be a complete waste of money.
So, you don't want to hear anyone talk about hopefully's, have been clamoring for a "plan" for months and months now, but are comfortable with a plan that entails basically just going in totally blind and hitching your wagon to a complete unknown.
Where's the logic here? That's not a plan. That's throwing shit at a wall.
Quote:
The notion a stop-gap QB is going to cost anywhere in the neighborhood of what Manning costs this year is funny.
There's much more supply than demand this year. Tannehil, Taylor, Bridgewater, McCown, Fitzpatrick, maybe Bortles and a few others will be available.
You get outside of the top 30 or so salaries (and even excluding rookie deals) -- guys aren't making 17M a year.
Signing any of those QB's would be a complete waste of money.
Kind of like signing Kurt Warner to keep the seat warm was a complete waste of money?
The one thing Shurmur supposedly does well is work with quarterbacks. Why not use that to gain a roster building advantage?
At a minimum, Eli has shown he can win if the roster breaks the right way around him. None of the “viable” options can even say that.
Again, who is this vital piece or pieces the Giants can acquire with the cap space? Cap space for the hell of it means nothing.
Quote:
In comment 14291897 christian said:
Quote:
The notion a stop-gap QB is going to cost anywhere in the neighborhood of what Manning costs this year is funny.
There's much more supply than demand this year. Tannehil, Taylor, Bridgewater, McCown, Fitzpatrick, maybe Bortles and a few others will be available.
You get outside of the top 30 or so salaries (and even excluding rookie deals) -- guys aren't making 17M a year.
Signing any of those QB's would be a complete waste of money.
Kind of like signing Kurt Warner to keep the seat warm was a complete waste of money?
Awful comparison. Kurt Warner was not only a Super Bowl champion/MVP, but he was still actually a pretty good QB.
He had some very good years in Arizona after he left here and was still a starting caliber NFL QB. They went to a Super Bowl with him, if you recall.
Tyrod Taylor? Blake Bortles?
How old is Josh McCown now? 41?
Cmon. This isn't even close to a comparison.
Quote:
Well, if we don’t need the cap space and Eli has all this gas left in the tank, why not pay him another $90M / 3 yrs?
May as well lock up this still great player who is more mobile than ever, a stronger arm than ever, and stands taller and more poised than ever in the pocket.
Right?
Idiotic argument.
Brady just won the SB and is entering the final year of his deal just like Eli. Why aren’t the Pats extending him? Are the Pats dumb? Does it mean they are locked into drafting his replacement? Does it mean they have to draft his replacement? Does it mean Brady sucks now? No.
When a QB gets to this stage of his career it’s really in the best interest of the organization to take it year by year until you’re certain about the replacement.
With all due respect, comparing Eli to Brady is not your strongest move.
Eli exhibits considerably more signs of his skills eroding than Brady.
Brady is better at 42 than Eli ever was. He’ll be better at 50 than Eli ever was. And the Pats will extend him.
Furthermore, the Pats, well BB, had a succession plan. He tutored JG and had him prime to go. Kraft pulled the owner card, likely via. Brady campaign behind the scenes, and forced the JG trade.
And yet as of now Brady is entering the ‘19 season on the last year of his deal.
Your QB options are trash. When was the last time a trade for a QB worked out? No one in the FA market is a lock to be an upgrade over Eli, and none of them will be cheap. Look at Tyrod’s Contract with the Browns.
The play for Gettleman is to use this off-season to continue to rebuild the core of the team that Reese allowed to rot. Find some pieces in FA for the OL/front 7 on defense. Draft to the strength of the draft and find an ER or two and OL help. Let the other teams make a spaz decision at QB and wait until you find the QB you actually have a consensus on as the future.
Quote:
Because the known isn't getting us anywhere, and it is more expensive.
So, you don't want to hear anyone talk about hopefully's, have been clamoring for a "plan" for months and months now, but are comfortable with a plan that entails basically just going in totally blind and hitching your wagon to a complete unknown.
Where's the logic here? That's not a plan. That's throwing shit at a wall.
It is a plan. It's going in a different direction at quarterback, which is sorely needed. I outlined three options within that plan.
What isn't a plan is what actually being done. That is just coasting to another losing season and putting this issue off another year.
I'd agree that going with Lauletta is the weakest of the three options, but it's still a better option than what the Giants are actually doing.
And at least his game fits the modern game. Good arm, he’s mobile and he’s 25. He may not be the long term answer, but the investment for him is a helluva lot cheaper than still riding a 38 year old horse that can barely move.
Look, I know the reality of this franchise. Eli will likely be extended, and eat up 13-15% of valuable cap dollars that can be better invested elsewhere, and we’ll win anywhere from 6 to 9 games. And 365 days from know, there still won’t be a real succession plan, and the same pro and con Eli arguments will exist.
Meanwhile, what could have been - Mahomes, Darnold, Rosen, whomever, will be showcasing their skills and reminding us what could have been...
But, hey. Go Barkley! Right?
Quote:
In comment 14291898 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Because the known isn't getting us anywhere, and it is more expensive.
So, you don't want to hear anyone talk about hopefully's, have been clamoring for a "plan" for months and months now, but are comfortable with a plan that entails basically just going in totally blind and hitching your wagon to a complete unknown.
Where's the logic here? That's not a plan. That's throwing shit at a wall.
It is a plan. It's going in a different direction at quarterback, which is sorely needed. I outlined three options within that plan.
What isn't a plan is what actually being done. That is just coasting to another losing season and putting this issue off another year.
I'd agree that going with Lauletta is the weakest of the three options, but it's still a better option than what the Giants are actually doing.
The problem is, it’s going in a different direction like that chicken once it’s neck has been wrung. It’s brownian, which is really no direction at all.
Right now only thing of mere substance is that a few people around think ultimately a portion of Eli's contract will be turned into incentives. That Manning's value if he's released is likely no more than 15 million with no guarantee he's the starter. If Jacksonville wasn't in the QB hunt Eli's opportunities would be bleak. He has little bargaining power if he wants to finish his career with NYG. Based on that and assuming they want him back, I think its reasonable to believe both sides will work out an amicable agreement. If not, he'll land in Jacksonville for obvious reasons.
Quote:
so who is your choice for QB, and what do you think it will take to get him?
If I recall correctly, bw has espoused taking a second tier QB in round 2 (possibly trading to get back into low round 1).
I don't remember Go Terps advocating any alternative. Most just yells to get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli, get rid of Eli.
Is there any particular QB either of you want to draft? or is it anyone but Eli?
I've suggested an alternative several times. The way I see it, we have the viable options after cutting Eli:
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter and Tanney the backup
2. Draft a QB and let him compete with Lauletta for the starting job
3. Trade for an inexpensive backup from someone else's roster. Names of the top of my head include Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett, Mason Rudolph, Josh Dobbs, Nick Mullens, and Jeff Driskell.
Each of those is a viable, realistic alternative and preferable to overpaying Eli (or Files or Flacco).
Every single one of these options comes with risk, some come with limited upside and most aren’t even certain to be a viable option. I don’t hate any of them with the first one being the exception.
So when the giants OL is a little better and the D has 3 much needed additions playing and it’s November of 2019, and the offense STILL struggles because we have jeff fucking driskell at qb, will you be happy that the qb is making peanuts, but struggling because he’s jeff fucking driskell who has never played in shurmurs offense, I think, and has never been faced with nfl starting pressure......
Or we could stay with the known vet qb in Eli, who knows this offense after taking his lumps first half 2018 and flourished second half last year IN THIS SAME exact offense.
And of course, draft the qb this April if he’s there. Why on earth this is considered so terrible and even taboo by giants fans I’ll never know.
There’s a distinct possibility that the giants will be better next season around the qb. The talent on D and OL will be upgraded. The qb will be in a position to succeed. This moment right here reminds me of when the giants fired coughlin and let mcadoo coach a team that had more talent than any giants team since 2008. That 2016 team was loaded. They rebuild in 14 and 15, fight like hell in 15 when that team really had no business winning, then spend all the money on defense and fire coughlin. Fans were thrilled.
You finally have a well rounded offense here assuming we even add just one more legit starter on the OL and NOW we just have to cut Eli and sign some backup qb from another team? Now? With Eli sitting on his final year? That makes no sense to me. If you’re gonna replace Eli it better be with a young talented up n comer not some potential journeymen or backup who looks good in August. What’s the point...
And at least his game fits the modern game. Good arm, he’s mobile and he’s 25. He may not be the long term answer, but the investment for him is a helluva lot cheaper than still riding a 38 year old horse that can barely move.
Look, I know the reality of this franchise. Eli will likely be extended, and eat up 13-15% of valuable cap dollars that can be better invested elsewhere, and we’ll win anywhere from 6 to 9 games. And 365 days from know, there still won’t be a real succession plan, and the same pro and con Eli arguments will exist.
Meanwhile, what could have been - Mahomes, Darnold, Rosen, whomever, will be showcasing their skills and reminding us what could have been...
But, hey. Go Barkley! Right?
The goal should be to make a move at QB that’s in the best interest of the franchise long term. Not change for the sake of change or cap space. Cap space that no one here earmarked for any notable targets in FA, and not necessary to retain anyone they want to keep.
The Giants will have an opportunity to get a guy they really want at the position in the not so distant future. There’s no need to force the issue and lose out on that opportunity because the franchise is invested in an inferior player.
That is absolutely not the case.
Quote:
There’s Giants that plays into the calculus at all.
That is absolutely not the case.
It absolutely is. As you’ve laid up numerous times. Incessantly even.
And at least his game fits the modern game. Good arm, he’s mobile and he’s 25. He may not be the long term answer, but the investment for him is a helluva lot cheaper than still riding a 38 year old horse that can barely move.
Look, I know the reality of this franchise. Eli will likely be extended, and eat up 13-15% of valuable cap dollars that can be better invested elsewhere, and we’ll win anywhere from 6 to 9 games. And 365 days from know, there still won’t be a real succession plan, and the same pro and con Eli arguments will exist.
Meanwhile, what could have been - Mahomes, Darnold, Rosen, whomever, will be showcasing their skills and reminding us what could have been...
But, hey. Go Barkley! Right?
Yeah I can’t believe we didn’t draft Mahomes when we had the chance!!! Who did we take instead? Please remind me. Oh and Rosen and Darnold are complete trash compared to Barkley.
The Giants *might* improve vastly. That could happen. As it stands basically every unit on offense outside of RB needs improvement. Every unit, literally every unit on defense needs improvement.
The Giants team that had that little streak of games, has to replace or improve a lot of players. They won't have 4 top 70 picks and they won't have nearly as much cap space to spend.
The Giants *might* improve vastly. That could happen. As it stands basically every unit on offense outside of RB needs improvement. Every unit, literally every unit on defense needs improvement.
The Giants team that had that little streak of games, has to replace or improve a lot of players. They won't have 4 top 70 picks and they won't have nearly as much cap space to spend.
The Giants had 23 mil in space this time last year and they have at least 27 mil now.
The goal should be to make a move at QB that’s in the best interest of the franchise long term. Not change for the sake of change or cap space. Cap space that no one here earmarked for any notable targets in FA, and not necessary to retain anyone they want to keep.
The Giants will have an opportunity to get a guy they really want at the position in the not so distant future. There’s no need to force the issue and lose out on that opportunity because the franchise is invested in an inferior player.
Back to the Driskell idea.
Driskell’s cap hit is $720K for 2019. Basically, he’s $22M+ cheaper than Eli. He’s mobile and athletic. A guy with some decent NFL experience who could do traditional QB duties, RPOs, and designs out of the pocket.
In other words, probably a better compliment to Barkley.
I’m not at all suggesting anything great with Driskell. But in all likelihood, the difference in win totals isn’t that great between Eli and him. So in each case, we’re likely going nowhere.
So what’s better for the team? We’re losing with both (just playing the odds). However, we’re saving $22M in one case; and in the other case, it’s a chance to see a slower, older Eli play again?
+$22M in cap or walking down memory lane...
I think the answer is fairly clear.
Quote:
The goal should be to make a move at QB that’s in the best interest of the franchise long term. Not change for the sake of change or cap space. Cap space that no one here earmarked for any notable targets in FA, and not necessary to retain anyone they want to keep.
The Giants will have an opportunity to get a guy they really want at the position in the not so distant future. There’s no need to force the issue and lose out on that opportunity because the franchise is invested in an inferior player.
Back to the Driskell idea.
Driskell’s cap hit is $720K for 2019. Basically, he’s $22M+ cheaper than Eli. He’s mobile and athletic. A guy with some decent NFL experience who could do traditional QB duties, RPOs, and designs out of the pocket.
In other words, probably a better compliment to Barkley.
I’m not at all suggesting anything great with Driskell. But in all likelihood, the difference in win totals isn’t that great between Eli and him. So in each case, we’re likely going nowhere.
So what’s better for the team? We’re losing with both (just playing the odds). However, we’re saving $22M in one case; and in the other case, it’s a chance to see a slower, older Eli play again?
+$22M in cap or walking down memory lane...
I think the answer is fairly clear.
1. The Giants would have to trade assets to acquire him, assuming the Bengals are even willing to part ways.
2. He’s entering the last year of his rookie deal. So toss out your economics argument.
3. If the Giants did trade for him, it would be because they view him as a long term solution at QB. That means the Giants are invested in him for a minimum of 3 years, probably more, and pass on every potential franchise QB in the draft during that time span.
What you’re proposing is a tried and failed model that’s completely short sighted. At best the Giants become the Miami Dolphins for the next 10 years.
Any moving away from Eli should be a movement toward a long term solution, NOT hopscotching around with 'ah, what the hell, try X, maybe he'll be better, anybody but Eli'
the boat has a leak in it, and surely needs upgrading. That doesn't mean we should jump out in the middle of the ocean and cling to any old flotsam.
bw said on another thread that he didn't trust one of the draft options (Haskins?) because the talent around him was so good that he had time in the pocket to relax and make thoughtful decisions. The problem with Eli is that he hasn't had the time to relax. He's shell shocked, and the 'it' factor comes and goes. Work on the OL, give Eli a reliable pocket and time to relax. I think you'll see an Eli who is good enough until the right replacement can be found.
If they think a backup, or a draft pick is the right long term solution, then go for it. But the argument should start with 'we found a good replacement', not centered around 'anybody but Eli'.
1. The Giants would have to trade assets to acquire him, assuming the Bengals are even willing to part ways.
2. He’s entering the last year of his rookie deal. So toss out your economics argument.
3. If the Giants did trade for him, it would be because they view him as a long term solution at QB. That means the Giants are invested in him for a minimum of 3 years, probably more, and pass on every potential franchise QB in the draft during that time span.
What you’re proposing is a tried and failed model that’s completely short sighted. At best the Giants become the Miami Dolphins for the next 10 years.
Failed model? The team is failing now with a 38 year old QB at the helm. Basically, we’ve been the Dolphins for the last seven years.
What assets to acquire him? A fourth rounder? It’s Jeff Driskell. And yes, I’m assuming a trade could be worked out. So play along.
As far as I’m concerned, Driskell would be a one year rental. The Patriots make similar moves all of the time, trying to acquire potentially undervalued asses.
Driskell has one year left on his contract at $720K. If he works and we hit on it, great. Then we consider something longer. But here’s what you’re missing - I’m trying to free up money NOW from Eli’s contract to improve other areas of the team. That’s material money to invest.
Meanwhile, I’m also drafting a QB from this draft. Preferably early - say, the second round. So I’m not stopping at Driskell. I’m getting younger and more athletic at QB. I want a QB competition right now.
Again, and let me underscore this, with or without Eli this year, we are very, very likely going nowhere. I know the Eli-always-has-excuses crowd think there is another run there, because they see Eli on the same level as Brees or Brady with poorer management, but I’m siding with the football actuarial tables on this one.
So let’s get younger, save cap dollars, and get into a QB competition to see the future...
You know what would impress me? Honesty. I wish posters would just what they are really thinking - they really want to see Eli keep playing. He’s an important piece of Giants history, so let him go out on his terms. Trying to camouflage that with this other non-sense that I read - mentor the next QB, he’s an oline away from making us a contender, etc - really pushes this organization deeper into a hole.
Let’s start digging out of it now.
Quote:
I think many of you extremely overrate the talent on this team, as did many last year.
The Giants *might* improve vastly. That could happen. As it stands basically every unit on offense outside of RB needs improvement. Every unit, literally every unit on defense needs improvement.
The Giants team that had that little streak of games, has to replace or improve a lot of players. They won't have 4 top 70 picks and they won't have nearly as much cap space to spend.
The Giants had 23 mil in space this time last year and they have at least 27 mil now.
Dave Gettleman dished out ~110M in guaranteed money last offseason -- impacting the medium term cap space across a few years, where money is realistically spent.
It's an almost certainty he will not be spending that type of money this offseason.
If they're going with Eli for the year, it's either give him more money for an extension, or stick with the contract as is.
I'd rather not extend and push dead money on next year.
The question is whether to go with Eli this year, or cut him.
As I've said before, keeping Eli for the last year of his contract does not prevent bringing in FA this year. First year cap hit is typically low, then will be escalating when Eli's hit is coming off the books.
The Giants don't have leverage? 2/3 of his 2019 money is nonguaranteed, and that's assuming they don't use the roster bonus itself as leverage. That's their leverage. It's at least questionable that Eli gets $17MM on the open market, but even if he were to, is he willing to play that game and finish his career with a different team over a couple of million that the Giants would ostensibly be using to fortify the roster around him?
If this is true, I assume that this is exactly what Gettleman was talking about when he said that Eli "took [him] to the low post and won." The conversation about a potential pay cut may have already happened and Eli (or Condon, more likely) already refused.
I don't know what you guys are thinking. Manning is due $17 million this year. Foles got $20 million. Garappolo $18. Alex Smith $18 Keenum $15. After Keenum, you are talking about guys on rookie deals and backups.
Manning is not overpaid as a vet starting qb. His salary and cap hit do not prevent the Giants from drafting a qb or picking up someone's failed #1 pick like Bridgewater or getting someone else's cut in preseason.