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Will the Giants have to trade up to get a QB?

Vin_Cuccs : 2/10/2019 12:13 am
Doing a bit of thinking, which is dangerous this late....

Now everyone will obviously have their own preferences, but there are three quarterbacks worthy of an upper 1st round grade: Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock, and Kyler Murray.

So clearly, the Giants sit at #6 overall, with the Cardinals, 49ers, Jets, Raiders, and Buccaneers in front of them.

The aforementioned teams all have viable options at QB: Rosen, Garoppolo, Darnold, Carr, and Winston, respectively. There is a chance that one of those teams is not enamored with their current starter, but that seems somewhat unlikely. Carr and Winston Are probably on the shakiest footing, but they have recently gotten votes of confidence from the coaching staffs.

So then the real question is if one of the top five teams doesnít draft a quarterback, what is the likelihood that they find a trade partner who wants to move up and select one?

The Jaguars, one spot behind the Giants, are clearly the biggest competition for a quarterback. With that said, there have been several reports linking them to Nick Foles, which makes sense, because they are a win now team and they feel they are probably only a veteran quarterback away.

Lions, Bills, Broncos, Bengals, Packers, Dolphins, Falcons and Redskins round out the top 15. Of that group, only the Broncos, Bengals, Dolphins, and maybe the Redskins have a need a quarterback.

So what would the cost them to move up ahead of the Giants to take a quarterback? The standard draft pick value chart would tell us....

Redskins-15 to 5 would cost them their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
Dolphins-13 to 5 would cost them their 1st, 3rd, and 4th.
Bengals-11 to 5 would cost them their 1st and 2nd.
Broncos-10 to 5 would cost them their their 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th.
Jaguars -7 to 5 would cost them their 1st and 3rd.

Now obviously, this methodology is flawed. The chart tends to be a little too unreliable and pragmatic. But for the sake of this exercise, letís say it is at least somewhat accurate. I think adding additional compensation is necessary, as every year there is inflation to move up in the draft.

My point is that all three QBís will probably not go within the top 5. The real question is who will be willing to move up high enough to take Haskins?

If itís not the Haskins, Lock would be a nice consolation prize. Murray is the wild card.

The real question is if the Giants Fall in love with Haskins, and have to trade up, how far will they have to go? Anyone else behind the Giants knows that theyíve got to move up to at least 5 if they love Haskins whereas the Giants arenít sure how high theyíll have to go.

Last year the Jets traded up to number 3 with the Colts. The cost was the number 6 pick and three 2nd round picks. Obviously the Giants donít have three 2nd rounders. The chart says their 1st, 2nd and 4th would be enough, even though that is less than what the Jets paid last year.

It comes down to this:
Do the Giants like Haskins enough to move up for him if they have to?
Well another team jump the Giants to draft Haskins?
If Haskins goes before 6, is Lock an option?
Could Haskins and Lock both go in the top 5, and if so, is Murray an option?
Unless they are keeping it super quiet  
ryanmkeane : 2/10/2019 12:42 am : link
there hasnít been much talk about Jaguars falling in love with a rookie QB. My bet would be that Haskins is available at 6.
If they do their idiots  
montanagiant : 2/10/2019 12:42 am : link
Way too many holes to fill to trade up for any of these QBs in the draft. It would set us back even more years
There have been a few reports  
ryanmkeane : 2/10/2019 12:43 am : link
that Dolphins are waiting until 2020 for QB. With their roster, they should be near the bottom of the league this coming season so it makes sense.
My stance since we started addressing the topic  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/10/2019 1:09 am : link
is that I believe some one will trade up ahead of the Giants for Haskins, but not for either Lock or Murray because of their perceived risk factors.

I also don't see much reason to prefer Haskins, so I would hang tight at 6 and take Lock if he's there. If two teams trade up for QBs above the Giants, then one of the top 4 players on the DL are available, and I'd wait to take one of them, and see whom among the next few QBs slid out of day one for a possible trade up on day 2. Jones, Grier, Murray might all be on the board after day 1 is accounted for.

You have, in 2020, not only a likely stronger draft crop at QB, you have a better chance of grabbing Brisset as a UFA, or Carr or Winston or perhaps even Rosen via a trade.

Add to that, I'm not that's anxious to flush Eli and it's possible Lauletta becomes more serious in year two.

For a lot of fundamental reasons, I would not sweat moving up this year.

Having said all that, I think DG will nab Haskins or Lock at 6. I believe in KISS.
This is not how you pick a QB. You don't draft a position.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/10/2019 1:17 am : link
You draft people. You cannot say there are 3 worthy QBs so we get a consolation prize. It is like finding a spouse. You don't connect with one and then settle for the second best one just because they were there. That is like marrying the rebound.

If you like Haskins then that is your guy. You don't hope to get him and settle after that.
I think we'll have to trade up if we want Haskins.  
yatqb : 2/10/2019 1:18 am : link
As of this moment (before the Combine) I expect that we'll have to trade some picks from both this and next year's draft to get up high enough to land him.

I also don't see us falling in love with several QBs and being willing to wait for whichever one drops to us.

This will be a VERY interesting draft year for the team, as I suspect that we will want to land a QB with our first pick.
RE: This is not how you pick a QB. You don't draft a position.  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/10/2019 1:28 am : link
In comment 14292127 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
You draft people. You cannot say there are 3 worthy QBs so we get a consolation prize. It is like finding a spouse. You don't connect with one and then settle for the second best one just because they were there. That is like marrying the rebound.

If you like Haskins then that is your guy. You don't hope to get him and settle after that.


If your post was addressed to mine, and not the OP, you missed my point. I really don't see much difference between Haskins and Lock to prefer one over the other. So why invest resources to move up? You sound like you have to make a decision that this guy is better than that guy. Maybe not.

Last year I would have sworn Mayfield WAS NOT on the same tier as Darnold or Rosen, and now (for the moment) I look to have been wrong.

Between Rosen and Darnold I had a really tough time prefering one over the other. Rosen looked like a better passer with a far poorer support group, Darnold looked like he possessed more "it" factor and leadership - more ability to raise the level of play around him. And after 1 year, you're crazy if you think the better QB has truly emerged among all 3 of them.

It's not so easy to pick - unlike a wife.
It was to Vin's post  
robbieballs2003 : 2/10/2019 1:30 am : link
.
BlueLou  
robbieballs2003 : 2/10/2019 1:33 am : link
But just because you don't see much of a difference between the two doesn't mean other teams including the Giants dont. Even if both players have the same grade it doesn't mean they are both great fits for this team, franchise, city, etc.
If the Giants like Lock  
mattyblue : 2/10/2019 3:03 am : link
and Haskins (for arguments sake) its still possible both are available at 6 or neither are there at 6. Thatís when I would assume Gettleman would decide how much he likes one or the other and would then decide if he wants to move up. If in some very strange circumstance they like 3 QBs equally and think they will all be the same in the NFL, they might be smarter to stay at 6.

I would guess that the Giants would move up if the cost wasnít exceedingly high. You can go year by year and see how different the value for trading down is every year. Gettleman needs to address what is in front of him and how he feels about those players. Not players that may be coming next year or in 2 years. How does he like Haskins? Does he think heís the real deal? Not is Haskins better than the some guy next year. That guy next year could get hurt, play like shit, really anything. You look at one player and decide if he is or is not worth your pick.
RE: BlueLou  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/10/2019 4:04 am : link
In comment 14292133 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But just because you don't see much of a difference between the two doesn't mean other teams including the Giants dont. Even if both players have the same grade it doesn't mean they are both great fits for this team, franchise, city, etc.


I suspect you are correct. But apparently last year they themselves couldn't decide...
My guess is...  
M.S. : 2/10/2019 4:41 am : link

...Giants will trade up for Haskins.
RE: This is not how you pick a QB. You don't draft a position.  
ron mexico : 2/10/2019 5:13 am : link
In comment 14292127 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
You draft people. You cannot say there are 3 worthy QBs so we get a consolation prize. It is like finding a spouse. You don't connect with one and then settle for the second best one just because they were there. That is like marrying the rebound.

If you like Haskins then that is your guy. You don't hope to get him and settle after that.


The eagles did it and it worked out for them.
I say, No.  
George from PA : 2/10/2019 6:06 am : link
Especially, if Foles end up in Jacksonville.

Figure...3 blue chippers....will be tough to pass up anyway you look at it. So you must overpay for top 3 spots.

That leave 2 spots, 4th and 5th...possibly interested in moving back...

Gruden is most likely....and they already have a ton of picks.

I am still not convinced, we are drafting a QB at 6.....let alone moving up.

A stud defensemen will be there at 6 at a position of need....

Will the top 3 QBs go by 6....no way.

Haskins most likely

Murray might surprise

Lock should be available
Drafting a quarterback will set them back 5 years?  
joeinpa : 2/10/2019 7:14 am : link
Keep reading about all the holes on this team. One or the holes is a young quarterback to get ready behind Eli.

I also keep reading about getting the building blocks in place before drafting the next quarterback. A quarterback is a pretty big building block, one worthy of striking while the iron is hot.

They passed on this building block last year at 2. I d say passing again this year at 6 is a higher risk for setting the team back 5 years.
Things I go the rest of my life  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/10/2019 7:34 am : link
never hearing.

#1 "This will set us back x years"

Have you not watched the NFL in the last 30 years?
Also  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/10/2019 7:38 am : link
there is a certain percentage of the fanbase that will never like any of the QB prospects. Some are waiting for something that doesn't exist: A perfect prospect with no risk.

This may not be a strong class, but it's worth pointing out that you guys tore apart every prospect last year, and most of you didn't think Baker was a franchise QB either.
RE: RE: This is not how you pick a QB. You don't draft a position.  
robbieballs2003 : 2/10/2019 7:59 am : link
In comment 14292140 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14292127 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


You draft people. You cannot say there are 3 worthy QBs so we get a consolation prize. It is like finding a spouse. You don't connect with one and then settle for the second best one just because they were there. That is like marrying the rebound.

If you like Haskins then that is your guy. You don't hope to get him and settle after that.



The eagles did it and it worked out for them.


Not really. Everybody knew Goff was going number 1. The Eagles loved Wentz.
Are Carr, Winston and Bortles  
Doomster : 2/10/2019 7:59 am : link
really in the future plans of their respective teams?

I doubt it.....and saying the right thing is just a smoke screen.....none of those qb's are capable of bringing their teams to the next level....

And there are other teams willing to trade their soul, IF, they think a certain qb is their guy....

So, I would not be surprised that possibly 2 qb's are gone before we pick....

Trade up? I doubt there is a QB worth that...and this team just has too many holes....

The problem is, if DG is true to his word, that he is trying to put the best team possible out on the field, another good draft, and if we get lucky with a couple free agents, this team could approach a level where we may be picking mid round next year in the draft...

So two seasons with a #2 and #6 picks, and no foreseeable franchise qb, is that not qb hell? Or just bad luck, that there were no franchise qb's out there?
Iíll just leave this here.  
Beezer : 2/10/2019 8:00 am : link

From the Rick Gosselin thread.

SHO'NUFF : 2/9/2019 8:26 pm : link
"I must be missing something in regards to this year's QB class as every mock draft I have seen has 3 or 4 QBs in 1st round, but I have evaluated nearly all the hyped QBs and haven't given a 1st or 2nd round grade to any QB yet."

via Twitter
I think DG is smarter than that.  
FStubbs : 2/10/2019 8:05 am : link
I think even Reese was smarter than that.

This offseason and draft will be focused on strengthening the trenches. If Lock falls to the 2nd or 3rd round the Giants might make a move.
RE: Iíll just leave this here.  
The_Boss : 2/10/2019 8:10 am : link
In comment 14292153 Beezer said:
Quote:

From the Rick Gosselin thread.

SHO'NUFF : 2/9/2019 8:26 pm : link
"I must be missing something in regards to this year's QB class as every mock draft I have seen has 3 or 4 QBs in 1st round, but I have evaluated nearly all the hyped QBs and haven't given a 1st or 2nd round grade to any QB yet."

via Twitter


Which falls in line with just about everything thatís been written about this class since the start of the fall and with what Iíve been preaching since last March.
RE: I think DG is smarter than that.  
mattyblue : 2/10/2019 8:11 am : link
In comment 14292155 FStubbs said:
Quote:
I think even Reese was smarter than that.

This offseason and draft will be focused on strengthening the trenches. If Lock falls to the 2nd or 3rd round the Giants might make a move.


Lock in the 2nd or 3rd round??
I just hope we don't  
Doomster : 2/10/2019 8:25 am : link
waste another later round pick on a qb, that will NEVER see the field...
If  
mdthedream : 2/10/2019 8:29 am : link
during the combine the Giants really think one of the QBs is a franchise QB that is rising in the draft than I don't have a problem if they go get him. Sure we all would rather they pick him at 6 if he is a franchise QB bit the combine will give them a much better idea what to do.
Lake  
joeinpa : 2/10/2019 9:18 am : link
I agree
RE: I just hope we don't  
Jimmy Googs : 2/10/2019 9:40 am : link
In comment 14292160 Doomster said:
Quote:
waste another later round pick on a qb, that will NEVER see the field...


Agree, lets waste them on a more practical position of need...
Last year taught us  
Beer Man : 2/10/2019 9:42 am : link
not to assume anything with the Giants draft. We don't even know if DG/PS are in love enough with any of the QBs to take them at 6, much less give up valuable draft picks to move up for one. If you are in love with any player or position on the board, be prepared to be disappointed
RE: Drafting a quarterback will set them back 5 years?  
Blue21 : 2/10/2019 9:46 am : link
In comment 14292146 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Keep reading about all the holes on this team. One or the holes is a young quarterback to get ready behind Eli.

I also keep reading about getting the building blocks in place before drafting the next quarterback. A quarterback is a pretty big building block, one worthy of striking while the iron is hot.

They passed on this building block last year at 2. I d say passing again this year at 6 is a higher risk for setting the team back 5 years.


I agree. Of course Haskins is a risk but any position is. I think after the combine Haskins value is going to increase a lot. Haskins at 6 if his combine is what I think it will be. If he craps the bed at the combine then that's different but I don't expect it. Somebody may move up but looking at Vin Cuccs evaluation numbers I find it a stretch but you never know. I'm also hoping some of these QB needt teams like the Jags go for Foles or one of the other FA's. Maybe they wait and take the chance on Murray.
Getting value is important as well as a Good/Great player  
MotownGIANTS : 2/10/2019 10:01 am : link
but there is a strong possibility that we could be able to PICK ANY QB in the ENTIRE draft 1st @ 6. Barring like last year that you are staring a generational player in the face you have to grab a QB. That does not happen often partly due to it is a premium position and teams 1 thru 5 are usually in dire need of a QB. Now if an OL (RT/C) which we need just as bad if not slightly more is rated as 6th overall or higher then you have to make a decent sized decision, go no-sexy pick and against conventional thinking. DL and OLB (pass rusher) is also a major need but is the strength of this draft as well with good OL being in decent supply as well. So you could wait until Rd2 to address DL and use multiple 4th/5ths to get back into Rd3 unless Gettleman is going to work his OL magic and find some hidden gems in Rds 4 & 5.

If no QB has been picked by 6 ... This is where your scout personnel and new GM makes their money. Remember he also instilled a new rating system and scouting process. We should be able to pick the guy that is the best of the lot and can produce with a bevy of weapons and a good OL. Even if the pick has to sit a yr so be it .... most need to no rookie QB is going to come in take you to the SB. In a few very cases some were along for the ride on teams that were already very good, but they lost.

Getting Haskins @ 6 and sitting him 1 yr will be fine especially if we get the RT situation fixed in FA. Eli is not Eli of old as we all know. I was and still is on Eli can be replaced mantra, but in the right situation going with the ORIGINAL plan is not so horrible. Eli takes the 5 mill deduction (able to be made back as incentives) we put that into the OL to help address a FA (RT), re-sign Collins, extend Brown, Jon H returns to C from injury and pick up a ER in Rd2. If somehow we can do all that and get a viable starting FS in FA we are not back into discussion for at least battling for our division.

If we address 1 and 3 in FA which is possible we could jump start the rebuild a bit and not lose prime years on OBJ, Collins, EE, Shep and Barkley.

Needs in order (Pre FA):
OL (RT/C)
QB
FS
DL
LB
WR (#2)
CB (Depth)
typo  
MotownGIANTS : 2/10/2019 10:03 am : link
If somehow we can do all that and get a viable starting FS in FA we are *now* back into discussion for at least battling for our division.
Really can see why the Giants may not love any one of the 3 named.  
Ivan15 : 2/10/2019 10:38 am : link
I think it is more likely that they trade back, get extra 2nd and 3rd round picks, and get a quality edge rusher or o-lineman in the first round.

Then Trade back into the 1st round to get one of the Big 3 or Jones.
RE: Are Carr, Winston and Bortles  
section125 : 2/10/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14292152 Doomster said:
Quote:
really in the future plans of their respective teams?


I think Winston still is for the Bucs. Bortles is not and Carr probably isn't, but he will be a decent QB for somebody.
Yes.  
AcidTest : 2/10/2019 10:44 am : link
The Giants will have to trade up for Haskins or Lock IMO. Teams always overdraft QBs. This year won't be any different. Haskins is the consensus #1 QB, and Elway apparently loves Lock.

I don't think the Giants will trade up for either. DG may inquire, but won't want to get into a bidding war, especially given the cost, the QBs, and the enormous number of holes on this team.

I also don't think a second round QB is likely, unless Jones is available. I don't see the Giants using a second round pick on Finley or Grier.

The most likely option is a day three QB to compete with Lauletta. Maybe Taylor Cornelius. Trading for Kyle Sloter is also a possibility.
RE: I think we'll have to trade up if we want Haskins.  
Boy Cord : 2/10/2019 11:01 am : link
In comment 14292128 yatqb said:
Quote:
As of this moment (before the Combine) I expect that we'll have to trade some picks from both this and next year's draft to get up high enough to land him.

I also don't see us falling in love with several QBs and being willing to wait for whichever one drops to us.

This will be a VERY interesting draft year for the team, as I suspect that we will want to land a QB with our first pick.


If the Giants trade up they had better be as convicted about Haskins as they were about Eli. Last draft, reports were the FO couldnít agree on a QB. Not sure if that was a contributing factor in not drafting a QB as they may have loved Barkley that much. But to trade up and give up valuable assets when the team has numerous holes to fill, everyone needs to be on board.

And if they trade up how high do they go? Do they go to #1 and give up the farm but guarantee they get their man? Or, do they hedge their bets and go to #3 like the Jets last year?

Big difference from last year when the perception was there were multiple franchise-level QBs available with fewer ?ís than this year. Or, they would have taken Barkley. This year the consolation prize could be Bosa or Allen.
Two Months ago  
WillVAB : 2/10/2019 12:19 pm : link
The consensus on BBI was that this draft was a Herbert or bust at the QB position. Now a sizable cut wants to trade up for Haskins.

Sheep.
Depends on DG and Shurmurs evaluation of the QBs.  
TMS : 2/10/2019 12:26 pm : link
They may be able to settle on one of them. But maybe not, they all have issues.These discussions are useless because that fact will not be available till much closer to draft day.
NYG drafting - past years  
stoneman : 2/10/2019 1:23 pm : link
Come draft day, if Haskins is their guy, they will trade to #1 and be done with it. Its the way NYG ownership like to do it. For your QB, it does not really matter (within reasonable values) what you give to get there. If they are not drafting QBs, then they will not be waiting and counting on #3 or #6 to get their guy.

The only way I can see them taking Haskins at #6 is if the top 5 DEs/DTs are gone and he is still rated high enough to not pass on. This would be my worst nightmare draft day.
I for one will be thrilled if the Giants  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/10/2019 1:42 pm : link
Can prevent a leak and Eric and JonC don't know who they want until AFTER they actually pick him.

That would be a refreshing change.
RE: Two Months ago  
Jimmy Googs : 2/10/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14292299 WillVAB said:
Quote:
The consensus on BBI was that this draft was a Herbert or bust at the QB position. Now a sizable cut wants to trade up for Haskins.

Sheep.


Don't be ridiculous throwing around "consensus" and "sizeable cut" in your color-commentary to describe what entire board would promote doing...
RE: RE: Two Months ago  
Strahan91 : 2/10/2019 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14292375 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14292299 WillVAB said:


Quote:


The consensus on BBI was that this draft was a Herbert or bust at the QB position. Now a sizable cut wants to trade up for Haskins.

Sheep.



Don't be ridiculous throwing around "consensus" and "sizeable cut" in your color-commentary to describe what entire board would promote doing...

Thatís also a load of garbage. I was in all the college fball and Oregon game threads and most bbiers were not sold on Herbert and felt he was overrated by the media
That is total bullshit about Herbert.  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/10/2019 2:04 pm : link
As the college season went on it is pretty clear why he went back to school. Haskins also came out of nowhere this year as far as NFL prospects go because I don't think OSU has ever had a pocket passer at QB under Meyer.
RE: NYG drafting - past years  
mrvax : 2/10/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14292356 stoneman said:
Quote:
Come draft day, if Haskins is their guy, they will trade to #1 and be done with it. Its the way NYG ownership like to do it. For your QB, it does not really matter (within reasonable values) what you give to get there. If they are not drafting QBs, then they will not be waiting and counting on #3 or #6 to get their guy.

The only way I can see them taking Haskins at #6 is if the top 5 DEs/DTs are gone and he is still rated high enough to not pass on. This would be my worst nightmare draft day.


I agree with this. If the Giants really are sold on a QB, they will do anything to get him. That will cost a lot of picks. The Giants really need these picks to rebuild the team.

I just do not see that special QB that would cause the Giants to give the farm to move up to #1. Does anyone?
RE: Last year taught us  
Pan-handler : 2/10/2019 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14292199 Beer Man said:
Quote:
not to assume anything with the Giants draft. We don't even know if DG/PS are in love enough with any of the QBs to take them at 6, much less give up valuable draft picks to move up for one. If you are in love with any player or position on the board, be prepared to be disappointed


Sort of. The beats close to the team were almost all cautioning and saying the Giants are leaning non QB with many thinking it'd be Barkley. Now Schwartz followed by Vachiano are saying Qb one year under Eli. I think there is a good chance this is our Plan A. It makes sense and follows the way the Maras like to do stuff. A player they really like they almost always try to do right and let them finish out their contract. They prefer this type of way of dealing with their players (as has been shown throughout the years).

Eli gets one more year, finishes out his contract. Mentors the rookie QB and then the rook takes over the next year.
RE: RE: Two Months ago  
WillVAB : 2/10/2019 2:32 pm : link
In comment 14292375 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14292299 WillVAB said:


Quote:


The consensus on BBI was that this draft was a Herbert or bust at the QB position. Now a sizable cut wants to trade up for Haskins.

Sheep.



Don't be ridiculous throwing around "consensus" and "sizeable cut" in your color-commentary to describe what entire board would promote doing...


Am I wrong? Look through the archives.
RE: That is total bullshit about Herbert.  
WillVAB : 2/10/2019 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14292383 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
As the college season went on it is pretty clear why he went back to school. Haskins also came out of nowhere this year as far as NFL prospects go because I don't think OSU has ever had a pocket passer at QB under Meyer.


False. No one here mentioned Haskins as a potential target until draft articles came out hyping Haskins.
A lot of those people screaming for Herbert  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/10/2019 2:35 pm : link
are part of the "anyone but Eli" crowd. Wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority never saw him play and just hear the media in September saying it's Herbert and everyone else sucks. Haskins and Murray weren't even on the radar then.
RE: RE: That is total bullshit about Herbert.  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/10/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14292396 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14292383 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


As the college season went on it is pretty clear why he went back to school. Haskins also came out of nowhere this year as far as NFL prospects go because I don't think OSU has ever had a pocket passer at QB under Meyer.



False. No one here mentioned Haskins as a potential target until draft articles came out hyping Haskins.


Well I can't speak for anyone else, but the first time I thought he was going to be a 1/2rd prospect was against Maryland. He really showed me a lot of moxie to win that game in a real bad spot for OSU. Than his play got better as the year progressed against big time defenses and thought he may be the guy at 6.
RE: RE: RE: That is total bullshit about Herbert.  
WillVAB : 2/10/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14292398 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14292396 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 14292383 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


As the college season went on it is pretty clear why he went back to school. Haskins also came out of nowhere this year as far as NFL prospects go because I don't think OSU has ever had a pocket passer at QB under Meyer.



False. No one here mentioned Haskins as a potential target until draft articles came out hyping Haskins.



Well I can't speak for anyone else, but the first time I thought he was going to be a 1/2rd prospect was against Maryland. He really showed me a lot of moxie to win that game in a real bad spot for OSU. Than his play got better as the year progressed against big time defenses and thought he may be the guy at 6.


Well you didnít share that opinion here. BBI had zero interest in Haskins until the bowl game.
RE: Two Months ago  
bw in dc : 2/10/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14292299 WillVAB said:
Quote:
The consensus on BBI was that this draft was a Herbert or bust at the QB position. Now a sizable cut wants to trade up for Haskins.

Sheep.


Not for those of us who watched him. And for those who were enamored with him, and that was mostly driven by what they read on the internet, some eventually came around when they actually took the time to watch Herbert play.

It's clear to me as far back as the '90s here at BBI, most BBIers don't watch college football; and those who do, struggle to understand what they are watching.
RE: RE: Two Months ago  
WillVAB : 2/10/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14292400 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14292299 WillVAB said:


Quote:


The consensus on BBI was that this draft was a Herbert or bust at the QB position. Now a sizable cut wants to trade up for Haskins.

Sheep.



Not for those of us who watched him. And for those who were enamored with him, and that was mostly driven by what they read on the internet, some eventually came around when they actually took the time to watch Herbert play.

It's clear to me as far back as the '90s here at BBI, most BBIers don't watch college football; and those who do, struggle to understand what they are watching.


Youíre probably right.
Just look at all the people crying about Herbert  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/10/2019 2:57 pm : link
going back to school as evidence BBI doesn't watch much college football. He's got some very nice tools, but Jesus he reminds me a lot of Davis Webb the way he locks onto his first read and all the hesitation and indecisiveness through progressions. He has so much arm talent he can work around that at college, but I think he made the right choice going back to school.
Herbert clearly...  
bw in dc : 2/10/2019 3:26 pm : link
has arm talent and is a tremendous athlete. From those standpoint, he's first round talent.

But a lot of fat needs to be trimmed away to get to the filet mignon. His mechanics/accuracy and decision making need major improvement.

I understand why he went back to Oregon. He loves Eugene and felt he needed more time.

Personally, I would have come out because of the premium placed on the position. I think he would have killed it at the Combine and found a spot in the top ten...

I'm holding out hope someone trades up with us for Haskins  
SGMen : 2/10/2019 3:54 pm : link
I "like" Haskins but don't think he has star quality. Solid at best.

I don't think we'll trade up for ANY QB in this draft.
RE: RE: Iíll just leave this here.  
Strahan91 : 2/10/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14292157 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14292153 Beezer said:


Quote:



From the Rick Gosselin thread.

SHO'NUFF : 2/9/2019 8:26 pm : link
"I must be missing something in regards to this year's QB class as every mock draft I have seen has 3 or 4 QBs in 1st round, but I have evaluated nearly all the hyped QBs and haven't given a 1st or 2nd round grade to any QB yet."

via Twitter



Which falls in line with just about everything thatís been written about this class since the start of the fall and with what Iíve been preaching since last March.

For every Rick Gosselin, you have tons of good draft guys saying differently. Boylhart, Greg Gabriel, McShay, Brugler, Jeremiah and that's just off the top of my head, all like Haskins quite a bit.
RE: RE: RE: Two Months ago  
Jimmy Googs : 2/10/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14292395 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14292375 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 14292299 WillVAB said:


Quote:


The consensus on BBI was that this draft was a Herbert or bust at the QB position. Now a sizable cut wants to trade up for Haskins.

Sheep.



Don't be ridiculous throwing around "consensus" and "sizeable cut" in your color-commentary to describe what entire board would promote doing...



Am I wrong? Look through the archives.


I dont have to. First of all, the words BBI and Consensus have no business ever being used together...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Two Months ago  
WillVAB : 2/10/2019 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14292463 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14292395 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 14292375 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 14292299 WillVAB said:


Quote:


The consensus on BBI was that this draft was a Herbert or bust at the QB position. Now a sizable cut wants to trade up for Haskins.

Sheep.



Don't be ridiculous throwing around "consensus" and "sizeable cut" in your color-commentary to describe what entire board would promote doing...



Am I wrong? Look through the archives.



I dont have to. First of all, the words BBI and Consensus have no business ever being used together...


Cool, I guess carry on pretending youíve wanted Haskins all along.
Trading From 6 to 5  
Samiam : 2/10/2019 4:55 pm : link
Would that cost more than a 4th?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Two Months ago  
Jimmy Googs : 2/10/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14292483 WillVAB said:
Quote:



Cool, I guess carry on pretending youíve wanted Haskins all along.



Huh? i don't think I have made one comment regarding any college QB other than Jake Fromm on this site, and thats because I am a UGA fan. You are mistaken.

I don't know if any guys coming out this year are worth taking any more than its worth waiting until 2020. I just know DG has 2 tough decisions to make...which draft makes sense to pick his guy and who is on the short list.
Isn't Rick Gosselin claim to fame  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/10/2019 5:07 pm : link
is his accuracy in mock drafts? While he seems to be very clued in to team philosophy and mindset I didn't think anyone hailed him as some sort of talent evaluator.
RE: Trading From 6 to 5  
Strahan91 : 2/10/2019 5:10 pm : link
In comment 14292484 Samiam said:
Quote:
Would that cost more than a 4th?

That's roughly in line with the trade value chart but who knows that high in the draft what it would cost given the number of potential suitors.
Only trade up I would tolerate  
chopperhatch : 2/10/2019 8:04 pm : link
Is to get Jones after trading back into the 1st. Haskins is fine, but only if we take him at 6.

I dont get the fascination with Lock. Jones has better mechanics, moves better, and dealt with pressure situations better during his time with Duke. If he had guys who could catch the fucking ball he would have been a monster. In fact I would love it if we traded back and took him.
'Will the Giants have to trade up to get a QB?'....  
Torrag : 2/10/2019 11:40 pm : link
They'll have to trade up to get Hankins. He's going Top 5 for one reason. Someone will covet him and are aware if he's there at #6 he's probably taken by the Giants.

Beyond that we'll have the pick of the litter at #6. Only problem is the only other guy possibly taleneted enough to take there is Murray. As we know his evaluation is fraught with peril. His size, inexperience and baseball ties are downright scary. I doubt the Giants FO will take him at #6...but it is possible.

The rest of this class don't warrant the pick. That includes Jones, Lock, Finley ,Grier et al. None of that lot deserves such a high slot in the Draft.
RE: Only trade up I would tolerate  
lax counsel : 2/10/2019 11:51 pm : link
In comment 14292618 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Is to get Jones after trading back into the 1st. Haskins is fine, but only if we take him at 6.

I dont get the fascination with Lock. Jones has better mechanics, moves better, and dealt with pressure situations better during his time with Duke. If he had guys who could catch the fucking ball he would have been a monster. In fact I would love it if we traded back and took him.


I can understand the skepticism on Lock, but Jones will struggle heavily in the meadowlands after Halloween. His deep throws require way too much loft to get down field, just wonít fit well in north jersey. Iím a lock fan, but even he is not worth a top 10 pick. This class isnít the one to find your perennial top 10 NFL qb.
whatís worrisome to me is when was the last time the giants developed  
plato : 2/11/2019 1:28 am : link
a qb from rookie to good enough to stay on our roster or any other nfl team? i know coaching staffs change and draft positions change, but despite taking qbs at even relatively high draft slots, has resulted in nothing for us or the nfl since Eli. Good luck with our scouts drafting qb.
whatís worrisome to me is when was the last time the giants developed  
plato : 2/11/2019 1:29 am : link
a qb from rookie to good enough to stay on our roster or any other nfl team? i know coaching staffs change and draft positions change, but despite taking qbs at even relatively high draft slots, has resulted in nothing for us or the nfl since Eli. Good luck with our scouts drafting qb.
RE: I for one will be thrilled if the Giants  
JonC : 2/11/2019 7:52 am : link
In comment 14292371 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
Can prevent a leak and Eric and JonC don't know who they want until AFTER they actually pick him.

That would be a refreshing change.


I can keep a lid on it, if you prefer.
RE: Iíll just leave this here.  
JonC : 2/11/2019 7:54 am : link
In comment 14292153 Beezer said:
Quote:

From the Rick Gosselin thread.

SHO'NUFF : 2/9/2019 8:26 pm : link
"I must be missing something in regards to this year's QB class as every mock draft I have seen has 3 or 4 QBs in 1st round, but I have evaluated nearly all the hyped QBs and haven't given a 1st or 2nd round grade to any QB yet."

via Twitter


I was almost beginning to think it was only me on an island. I don't see a QB worthy of #6.
RE: RE: I for one will be thrilled if the Giants  
section125 : 2/11/2019 7:55 am : link
In comment 14292914 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14292371 BlueLou'sBack said:


Quote:


Can prevent a leak and Eric and JonC don't know who they want until AFTER they actually pick him.

That would be a refreshing change.



I can keep a lid on it, if you prefer.


Not me....direction would be fine.
Hopefully...  
Brown_Hornet : 2/11/2019 9:04 am : link
...we skip the QBs this year.
RE: Hopefully...  
Brown Recluse : 2/11/2019 9:34 am : link
In comment 14292955 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...we skip the QBs this year.


Agreed. Wait till 2020, especially if we're talking about trading up. These prospects aren't worth it.
RE: RE: I for one will be thrilled if the Giants  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 9:37 am : link
In comment 14292914 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14292371 BlueLou'sBack said:


Quote:


Can prevent a leak and Eric and JonC don't know who they want until AFTER they actually pick him.

That would be a refreshing change.



I can keep a lid on it, if you prefer.


Lou had a little too much wine. You keep doing what you do. We appreciate it.
RE: RE: I for one will be thrilled if the Giants  
montanagiant : 2/11/2019 11:37 am : link
In comment 14292914 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14292371 BlueLou'sBack said:


Quote:


Can prevent a leak and Eric and JonC don't know who they want until AFTER they actually pick him.

That would be a refreshing change.



I can keep a lid on it, if you prefer.

Ignore him.
JonC  
fkap : 2/11/2019 12:28 pm : link
don't keep a lid on it, unless, of course, you are unable to say.

but, didn't they have you stumped last year? I recall you saying the ship had been sealed a lot tighter and there were fewer leaks.
This is a minor issue but ever since we picked Saquon  
cosmicj : 2/11/2019 12:32 pm : link
2nd, everyone has been writing that the pick was telegraphed. I was reading BBI and draft pundits daily in the days leading up to the draft and remember I couldn't make head or tails about the information out there about the Giants' preferences. Maybe I wasn't honing in on the right information, but I was literally stunned for 10 seconds when the Giants didn't pick Darnold.

It must have just been me.
RE: JonC  
JonC : 2/11/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14293283 fkap said:
Quote:
don't keep a lid on it, unless, of course, you are unable to say.

but, didn't they have you stumped last year? I recall you saying the ship had been sealed a lot tighter and there were fewer leaks.


I shared their top 3 not long after the Combine, and before the media got it. What wasn't clear until late in the process was actual QB interest, which I was told late it would only be Darnold and probably only after a trade down. They were locked into SB, Chubb, and Nelson in that order, so the trade down wasn't likely.

Beyond that, I heard very little on QB interest.
JonC clearly I am all alone in this world  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/12/2019 2:17 am : link
with my preference for your recalcitrance.

Do what you do, buddy.
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