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Will DG push all his chips in the middle of the table

Doomster : 2/10/2019 8:35 am
this season?

I think we will finally know how DG feels about Eli....

Cut him, save 17M, and just about guarantee a high pick next season....

Or, does he do the unthinkable?

Finally get an OL, and pin our hopes on SB, OBj, and Eli?

There is no way this defense can be fixed in one year, but there is a chance the offense can.....

To Eli or not to Eli, that is the question.....
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I think, as the Silva thread asserts, Eli is the guy week 1  
The_Boss : 2/10/2019 8:39 am : link
Iím Ok with it under the assumption DG goes anywhere other than QB at 6.
...  
christian : 2/10/2019 8:41 am : link
What do you think it will take to get the offensive line playing at a high level?
DG is not holding a winning hand right now  
superspynyg : 2/10/2019 8:48 am : link
He needs to draw an ACE from the deck to get a full house. Is there an ace in this draft? If not you try for the straight.
Haha  
UConn4523 : 2/10/2019 8:57 am : link
This thread makes me laugh. What other cliched label will BBI think of next?

Will he flop the nuts next?
I do not think DG  
section125 : 2/10/2019 8:59 am : link
goes QB this draft. I do not see a sure fire QB and people will overreach. I like Haskins, but not sure at #6.

DG should finished the OLine, get that part of the puzzle completed. It gives Barkley holes to run through (he does not need much), gives Eli time to complete passes. He should also get a complimentary WR on the outside so the Shepard can go back to the slot. (I'd keep Coleman, also)

He should get help at OLB to improve the pass rush and a free safety that can play CF.

The money is not there for a huge splash in FA and Collins should be targeted.
If he's counting on Eli  
WillieYoung : 2/10/2019 9:01 am : link
He doesn't have any chips.

Hope I'm wrong but the 4 and out at home against Dallas with the game on the line is etched in my mind.
RE: ...  
flycatcher : 2/10/2019 9:09 am : link
In comment 14292170 christian said:
Quote:
What do you think it will take to get the offensive line playing at a high level?

Hopefully DG can replicate the success of the Hernandez pick by grabbing a stud RT or C in round 2.
How is this a question?  
BillT : 2/10/2019 9:13 am : link
Now, they could draft Haskins at 6 and that might change things but today, Eli is the QB. And further, continuing the rebuild the OL is probably the top team priority no matter who the QB is. The "chips" have already been pushed if that's even a appropriate metaphor.
Which chips are we pushing here?  
UConn4523 : 2/10/2019 9:18 am : link
going all in with Eli and building an OLine or going all in with Murray and cutting Eli? Or go all in by moving up for Haskins?
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 2/10/2019 9:21 am : link
In comment 14292185 flycatcher said:
Quote:
In comment 14292170 christian said:


Quote:


What do you think it will take to get the offensive line playing at a high level?


Hopefully DG can replicate the success of the Hernandez pick by grabbing a stud RT or C in round 2.


Sure -- and then the other 2 spots?

I'm being rhetorical -- I just think the recent past has shown us upgrading 3 spots on the line is pretty difficult in one offseason.
I think they can live with Halapio and Brown next year  
George from PA : 2/10/2019 9:47 am : link
Replacing Wheeler is a must.....get that RT from Carolina in FA.

Heavy defense in draft
This kind of statement drives me nuts  
Johnny5 : 2/10/2019 9:52 am : link
Quote:
Finally get an OL, and pin our hopes on SB, OBj, and Eli?


It is not about pinning hopes on anybody. It's about looking at the roster and improving it any way you can, at ANY (and EVERY) given time you have the opportunity. Constantly scanning waiver wires, draft analysis, etc. etc. etc.

At this point, if we roll with Eli at QB next year (or for the next 2-3 years for that matter) it will have nothing to do with pinning hopes on anybody, it will be because DG thinks he is the best AVAILABLE option.
Fix the OL  
GiantsRage2007 : 2/10/2019 9:54 am : link
And try to win another SB with Eli?

You mean the same plan weíve had since 2013?

Awesome.
RE: I think they can live with Halapio and Brown next year  
christian : 2/10/2019 9:56 am : link
In comment 14292202 George from PA said:
Quote:
Replacing Wheeler is a must.....get that RT from Carolina in FA.

Heavy defense in draft


I get a little nervous with Brown. He looked compotent his first few games -- and then really fell off.

I'm not sure he's really much of an upgrade to Jerry or Omameh, and suspect his open market value will surprise many of us.
If you ask me  
NikkiMac : 2/10/2019 10:23 am : link
They have got to go QB .Eli can not beat Dallas or Philadelphia anymore. offensive line or not his claim to fame was always a 4th qtr comeback QB . he canít do it anymore for a variety of reasons .Let him play out his contract and draft a QB find a RT either in free agency or draft and the rest defense .....with all the picks the giants have and limited cap space need to find 6 good players to add to the team ,like you guys say canít do it all in one year.........
If the decision comes down to cut Eli or not...  
M.S. : 2/10/2019 10:24 am : link

...I'm firmly in the camp of cutting Eli; winning 2 or 3 games in 2019 and having the first selection (QB) in the 2020 Draft.

No questions asked.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/10/2019 10:24 am : link
Oh wow, a brand new discussion that hasn't taken place 800 times already!
Reality can be a tough pill to swallow  
UberAlias : 2/10/2019 10:51 am : link
Roster wise, we have major needs in the most critical of areas --QB, edge rusher, and Oline. You want to know why this is an 8-win team over two seasons --that's why. You aren't going to turn things around until you first fix the root cause of the issue.
Think DG can fill two big holes  
TMS : 2/10/2019 10:56 am : link
with our first two picks in this draft and a quality FA pickup. Unless he goes QB then we will be a lot like last year and miss the playoffs again.
RE: Haha  
King Quis : 2/10/2019 10:57 am : link
In comment 14292178 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
This thread makes me laugh. What other cliched label will BBI think of next?

Will he flop the nuts next?


That phrase my guy is part of Giants Lore!
Shurmur is a big factor. You canít ask the HC to develop a QB  
Ivan15 : 2/10/2019 11:01 am : link
that he doesnít like or doesnít fit the system. Of the Big 3, assuming Murray is one of them, Lock is probably the best system fit.

If Shurmur doesnít like Lock, the Giants might as well trade out, get extra picks, and get Jones in late first, early second. Jones is probably the best system fit, but if they donít like Jones, wait a year. In another year, the warts on the top 2020 QBs will show up.
DG looks like guy  
Pete in MD : 2/10/2019 11:11 am : link
who keeps the bowl of chips within arm's length at all times.
If Mara is being sentimental OK but this is  
greatgrandpa : 2/10/2019 11:16 am : link
a business dressed up as a sport. I simply cannot understand his thinking. This team will win maybe 6-7 games next year with Eli (on his good days). (This also assumes Eli is happy to train the guy who will take over his job which given the fact that Eli is a fierce competitor may not be as smooth as the PR guys will tell everybody). The hard truth is that keeping Eli with his diminished skills (and they are) is delaying the inevitable cut/release one year so the team will have to deal with the emotion and transition anyway) They may 3-4 with Haskins but a year of on the job training is invaluable for a QB, And then there is the cap savings for a S or LB or OT...
RE: If Mara is being sentimental OK but this is  
Johnny5 : 2/10/2019 11:48 am : link
In comment 14292256 greatgrandpa said:
Quote:
a business dressed up as a sport. I simply cannot understand his thinking. This team will win maybe 6-7 games next year with Eli (on his good days). (This also assumes Eli is happy to train the guy who will take over his job which given the fact that Eli is a fierce competitor may not be as smooth as the PR guys will tell everybody). The hard truth is that keeping Eli with his diminished skills (and they are) is delaying the inevitable cut/release one year so the team will have to deal with the emotion and transition anyway) They may 3-4 with Haskins but a year of on the job training is invaluable for a QB, And then there is the cap savings for a S or LB or OT...

So you are saying take Haskins no matter how high they rate him? Just because it "makes sense" to cut Eli?

OK sounds like a solid plan.

Also just curious, exactly what specific skills exactly have diminished and by what %? Just curious.
"I don't see a sure thing"  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/10/2019 12:27 pm : link
Some of you live in a fantasy land.
RE: ...  
Big Blue '56 : 2/10/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14292170 christian said:
Quote:
What do you think it will take to get the offensive line playing at a high level?


I know! I know! (raises hand). Better players?
OP = false dichotomy  
bc4life : 2/10/2019 12:50 pm : link
Cut Eli or build around him. They may let him play out the contract, continue to build the team and grab a QB when there is a quality candidate.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 2/10/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14292319 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14292170 christian said:


Quote:


What do you think it will take to get the offensive line playing at a high level?



I know! I know! (raises hand). Better players?


Exactly!!! And it's going to take 3 if them.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Johnny5 : 2/10/2019 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14292344 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14292319 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14292170 christian said:


Quote:


What do you think it will take to get the offensive line playing at a high level?



I know! I know! (raises hand). Better players?



Exactly!!! And it's going to take 3 if them.

I think 2 does it (C and RT) But if Halapio is better than I think than even just upgrading RT will make a difference. I'd like to see us draft a dominating center though. Jamon Brown is an average starter, would I like to upgrade? Always and everywhere... but that's not realistic and we could certainly do much worse than Jamon Brown at RG next year.
RE: If he's counting on Eli  
Bruner4329 : 2/10/2019 3:15 pm : link
In comment 14292181 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
He doesn't have any chips.

Hope I'm wrong but the 4 and out at home against Dallas with the game on the line is etched in my mind.


What is etched in my mind is how defense gave it up. What is etched in my mind is Shepherd being clueless on a back side pass he never looked for. Don't you also think having OBJ available would make a difference.
Got Christ sake some of you STILL  
Dave on the UWS : 2/10/2019 6:46 pm : link
think itís 2011. Eli will be 38 for the upcoming season. That was the last year for many great QBs ( like Simms and Marinofor example). There IS NO building around Manning, there IS NO ďall in with EliĒ any longer. Heís at best a competent placeholder- thatís all. The OL has to be upgraded because it has to. Ditto the defense. It has NOTHING to do with Manning at this point. They need to have a QB ready for 2020 be it a veteran or draft pick. No question and I think DG knows this. I suspect he didnít go QB last year was because of Barkley. Iím betting he goes QB with pick 1 or trades back into rd 1 with pick 2. Trying to trade up next year for a QB when EVERYONE will know they are desperate will take kings ransom.
What people..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/10/2019 7:39 pm : link
don't get is there was never an "all in" with Eli.

If there was, we'd have taken care to build the OL as much as any other position.
RE: What people..  
Britt in VA : 2/10/2019 7:41 pm : link
In comment 14292597 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
don't get is there was never an "all in" with Eli.

If there was, we'd have taken care to build the OL as much as any other position.


It's unbelievable. Even I, the ultimate "Eli Apologist" acknowledge that he's got one, maybe two years tops, left. He is a placeholder in ANY scenario.

You gotta fix the roster regardless.
RE: If he's counting on Eli  
djm : 2/10/2019 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14292181 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
He doesn't have any chips.

Hope I'm wrong but the 4 and out at home against Dallas with the game on the line is etched in my mind.


Never mind the 30 points scored or the awful defense.

That right there is my exact point with this Eli and OL talk. Itís been hyper analyzed for years now yet very little talk about the worst stretch of nyg defense in their history. And thatís not hyperbole.
RE: RE: What people..  
EricJ : 2/10/2019 7:49 pm : link
In comment 14292601 Britt in VA said:
Quote:

You gotta fix the roster regardless.


Absolutely...

The roster (starters) is not good at all and the depth is even worse. The funny thing is some here want to trade away the few good players we have for picks.

As the roster stands right now, this team is a Barkley injury away from having one of the worst offenses in football and competing for the top pick in next year's draft. Just think about what this team would have looked like last season without Barkley.



RE: What people..  
Jimmy Googs : 2/10/2019 8:03 pm : link
In comment 14292597 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
don't get is there was never an "all in" with Eli.

If there was, we'd have taken care to build the OL as much as any other position.


How do you know DG didn't think he did. Call it whatever you want, he was thinking "in"...
Huh??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/10/2019 8:11 pm : link
DG has been here one year. In that time, he turned the roster over by 70% and the starters by 50%.

He's trying to improve the team.

To me, going "all in" means they have Eli as the centerpiece and everything else is built around him. Everyone knows if Eli hasn't played his last snap, next year will be his last, but we keep hearing fanciful shit about going "all in". It's basically just one more way to slam the team.

Extending Eli for one year to lower his cap hit  
jlukes : 2/10/2019 8:15 pm : link
Is the likely play. It gives us more cap room this year and any small dead money it gives in 2020 when he retires or is cut will be insignificant.
I am not slamming the team or Eli by stating DG  
Jimmy Googs : 2/10/2019 8:19 pm : link
overestimated what his team could achieve. Throw all the stats you want on turnover, but that just tells you how bad he saw things as time went on.

When he took the job and started his work he had a different mind-set than what he wound up dealing with and ending with...
When time went on??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/10/2019 8:34 pm : link
Quote:
Throw all the stats you want on turnover, but that just tells you how bad he saw things as time went on.


When the year began - meaning the final roster going into week 1, there was 60% turnover from the year prior and 10 new starters (not including KR, P and PR, or even if one were to look at Latimer at WR2)

As the year progressed, Apple and Jenkins were gone.

He saw things were bad immediately. But you know what, we didn't draft a QB, so that left illuminaries to speculate that Eli was being kept to placate the fans and that anyone in charge had a mandate to keep him, hence the incredibly illogical narrative that the team was All-in and prepping for a SB run.

That's part of the problem with contrarians. They are often forced to take sides that make them look like complete dumbasses and forced to hammer away that it is somehow right, even when logic dictates otherwise
RE: I am not slamming the team or Eli by stating DG  
Johnny5 : 2/10/2019 8:35 pm : link
In comment 14292640 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
overestimated what his team could achieve. Throw all the stats you want on turnover, but that just tells you how bad he saw things as time went on.

When he took the job and started his work he had a different mind-set than what he wound up dealing with and ending with...

I don't think that's right Googs. I mean he did what he could but I have to believe if he was really enamored with any of the QBs he'd have taken that QB last year. Honestly I can't imagine passing on Saquon Barkley, but I understand we all have different opinions on it. I am not sold on Darnold not at all and Saquon seemed about as "Can't miss" as I've ever seen... not sure how anyone justifies passing on that. But I can understand if people really liked one of those QBs being frustrated. I think he made the right pick though, and like Fats said you have to give him credit for cutting dead weight and turning over the roster... especially not hanging on to questionable moves he himself made. And he had a pretty darn good draft. I think QB replacement will work itself out at some point in the next couple of years, and I still completely believe that Eli can win with an improved roster (especially on the OL). Just my opinion though.
RE: When time went on??  
Jimmy Googs : 2/10/2019 8:44 pm : link
In comment 14292667 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


He saw things were bad immediately. But you know what, we didn't draft a QB, so that left illuminaries to speculate that Eli was being kept to placate the fans and that anyone in charge had a mandate to keep him, hence the incredibly illogical narrative that the team was All-in and prepping for a SB run.



Then he really "saw" nothing. And only miscalibrated and then reacted in certain instances. Not throwing him under the bus...unless of course he keeps doing it.

And watch your tone chucklehead. Your crap doesn't fly with me as we have done this before...

RE: RE: I am not slamming the team or Eli by stating DG  
Jimmy Googs : 2/10/2019 8:48 pm : link
In comment 14292669 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 14292640 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


overestimated what his team could achieve. Throw all the stats you want on turnover, but that just tells you how bad he saw things as time went on.

When he took the job and started his work he had a different mind-set than what he wound up dealing with and ending with...


I don't think that's right Googs. I mean he did what he could but I have to believe if he was really enamored with any of the QBs he'd have taken that QB last year. Honestly I can't imagine passing on Saquon Barkley, but I understand we all have different opinions on it. I am not sold on Darnold not at all and Saquon seemed about as "Can't miss" as I've ever seen... not sure how anyone justifies passing on that. But I can understand if people really liked one of those QBs being frustrated. I think he made the right pick though, and like Fats said you have to give him credit for cutting dead weight and turning over the roster... especially not hanging on to questionable moves he himself made. And he had a pretty darn good draft. I think QB replacement will work itself out at some point in the next couple of years, and I still completely believe that Eli can win with an improved roster (especially on the OL). Just my opinion though.


I am not making this about Barkley vs a QB so don't you. This is about a team that needs deep restructuring and some of the moves made in Free Agency and even the draft don't fit what, imv, was needed. Year 1...got it. I am briefed.

Year 2 needs less mistakes.
RE: What people..  
bw in dc : 2/10/2019 8:48 pm : link
In comment 14292597 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
don't get is there was never an "all in" with Eli.

If there was, we'd have taken care to build the OL as much as any other position.


Youíre kidding, right?

So drafting a G high in the second round, laying record coin for LT Solder, the miss on Norwell, signing Omameh were just casual, stop-gap OL moves last year?

Then drafting Barkley, to upgrade a moribund running game, a QBís best friend, was just coincidence to helping Eli?

If you want a second crack to fix this absurd statement, by all means please do...
Gettleman..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/10/2019 8:57 pm : link
walked into a team that had a terrible OL several years running and he did what? He attempting to replace each position on the line to upgrade it.

He also saw a LB corps that had been neglected for years and he did what? traded for Ogletree.

No matter how many "cracks" I take , the idea DG went "all-in" doesn't get any closer to being the truth.

You are so fucking absurd that you've had to imagine a conspiracy theory about Eli being kept as a condition for hiring a GM and coach just to fit the ridiculous narrative.

DG's moves have been to try and improve the team. That's really the only crack one need to take at this. It isn't rocket science and it sure as fuck isn't a conspiracy.
RE: RE: What people..  
Jay on the Island : 2/10/2019 8:58 pm : link
In comment 14292683 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14292597 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


don't get is there was never an "all in" with Eli.

If there was, we'd have taken care to build the OL as much as any other position.



Youíre kidding, right?

So drafting a G high in the second round, laying record coin for LT Solder, the miss on Norwell, signing Omameh were just casual, stop-gap OL moves last year?

Then drafting Barkley, to upgrade a moribund running game, a QBís best friend, was just coincidence to helping Eli?

If you want a second crack to fix this absurd statement, by all means please do...

The Giants turned their attention to Solder after they missed out on Norwell. They never planned on signing either. Omameh was essentially a 1 year deal in hopes that he would build off his 2017 season with Jax. He also was brought in to help fix the locker room.

FMIC is right, what people fail to realize is that the Giants just had a much higher grade on Barkley than they did on the QB's. People like to twist this fact to support their agenda that the Giants went "all in" with Eli. Hernandez was the BPA in round 2 at a position of need. Most expected him to go in round 1. This roster was a huge mess and DG and co knew that it would take longer than a year to fix all the holes. Of course they were going to tell the fans that they intend to compete for a playoff spot what else were they supposed to say?
Correction  
Jay on the Island : 2/10/2019 8:58 pm : link
they never planned on signing both not either.
Did he try to "take care to build the O-line" or not?  
Jimmy Googs : 2/10/2019 9:07 pm : link
This was your statement to support DG didn't really concern himself seriously with the Oline and therefore wasn't all-in with Eli.

So which is it...

Gettleman..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/10/2019 9:16 pm : link
replaced or was left with different lineman but Wheeler by the end of the year vs. 2018.

It was clear he saw the OL, LB, the special teams units and depth at DB and WR as a weakness. He tried to upgrade all of those positions.

Again - Why does focusing on rebuilding a unit that had been terrible several years running constitute going all in with Eli?

This isn't an either or scenario. DG made moves to try and improve the team, not placate the QB. That's the difference between the ridiculous notion we were "all in with Eli" and just trying to build a much better team going forward.
...  
christian : 2/10/2019 9:27 pm : link
The incongruous move with the balance of the offseason was Solder.

The others moves were for younger players or with easier exits.

Giving that much guaranteed money to a guy at 30, 31, and 32 who was never an above average player is the one geniune mistake that felt like it was geared toward win-now.
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