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- Gettleman's press conference and "The Draft" ....

sxdxca : 2/11/2019 12:44 am
Here are a couple of points of note...

- He believes in building the team from the inside out, not outside in. Wants to build sustained success.

- Feels the team is headed in the right direction. Team didn't quit, that's the start of turning it around.

- Realizes he needs to fix the defense. Giants had the worst defense in the division, giving up 25.6 ppg.

- Feels they finally settled or calmed down the offensive line.

- Giants offense scored more points than the rest of the teams in there division. Last eight games averaged 27.4 ppg.

- If you draft a QB for need instead of value. You're going to make a mistake. You do not force the pick. You take the best player available.

- Eli can still make all the throws, but has to watch film and sit down and talk this over with pro personnel. Shurmur knows QB's, and is still behind Eli.

- Saquon is a special talent.

After watching this, here is a "possibility" of what they may do. I don't think there gonna give up on Eli. After all the progress they finally made in the last 8 games of the season, they're not gonna throw that away. They're gonna build on that, and bring him back.

In my opinion, none of the QB's in this draft are the best players available. When you select, you must draft into the "strength" of the draft, and not just based on need.

So what is the strength of this draft?

Here is a breakdown of the positions with a 1st round grade.

There are...

5 Defensive Ends
8 Defensive Tackles
3 Linebackers
3 Cornerbacks
1 Free Safety
4 Offensive Tackles
4 Quarterbacks
3 Wide Receivers
1 Tight End

- That means 20/32 positions in the first round, are defensive players.

- Out of the first 10 picks, 9 defensive players have a top ten grade on them. There isn't one RB with a 1st round grade. The strength of this draft is in the defense.

Since Gettleman believes in building from the inside out, and unless one of the 4 OT's stands out, I believe they go with a defensive player with the #6 pick in the draft.

Not sure exactly who, but either a DE-DT-or-LB. I believe one of those positions will be our pick.

Curious your thoughts?
i hope its White from LSU  
Platos : 2/11/2019 12:50 am : link
guys has a nose for the football you can't teach.
Indeed...  
bw in dc : 2/11/2019 12:53 am : link
this is a superior draft with defense, particularly Dline. Itís so deep with quality defenders itís an ideal draft to trade down.

And for the record, Josh Jacobs in a RB that will be a first rounder. His upside is magnificent.
I'm okay with going defense  
giantstock : 2/11/2019 2:23 am : link
If they don't like the QB's that much. If they don't like them that much, you can't force it. All this would means is that in 2020 they had better "reach for need."

For now build up the defense - sure. And further improve cap availability for 2020.

I just hope they don't go after a qb in rd 2 only because with the prior thoughts that the offense would be fine in 2018 along with drafting LaUlETTA and maybe his belief his current OL is pretty good -- if all true he would scare me yet again. thus i'd have little confidence they could make a good QB selection in rd 2.

with all this said -- patience would be an okay play for 2019. lose again and then get your QB.
If DG is really devoted to rebuilding  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/11/2019 3:31 am : link
the team from the inside out, he will take Ed Oliver or Jeffrey Simmons at 8 and then an edge rusher or OL or LB at 37.

There's plenty of worthy players for that 37 slot, depends who shakes out.
RE: Indeed...  
JCin332 : 2/11/2019 5:23 am : link
In comment 14292880 bw in dc said:
Quote:
this is a superior draft with defense, particularly Dline. Itís so deep with quality defenders itís an ideal draft to trade down.

And for the record, Josh Jacobs in a RB that will be a first rounder. His upside is magnificent.


But you would never draft him there as you have stated unequivocally ad nauseam that SB was a bad pick and that you can get quality RB's in the 4th and 5th round...
If Gettleman doesn't like the Haskins or Murray, trading down is a  
Ira : 2/11/2019 6:30 am : link
good idea. The defensive players and the offensive linemen available at 6, IMO, aren't that much better than the ones who will be there at 10 or 15.
The most often used refrain regarding the  
joeinpa : 2/11/2019 7:38 am : link
Draft around here is ďBest Player Available.Ē

It was definitely the case last season, and true when they passed on a quarterback. Of course this argument almost always discounts ďPositional ValueĒ.

I wonder, how many who used this philosophy believe Eli in 04 fit the restrictive label of, BPA?

Unlike last year I will not be strongly convicted that they made a mistake. But that will have been two years in a row where at 2 and then 6 they passed on the most important position in sports. At the very least unusual moves for a team who has gone 8-24 in it s last two season with a quarterback in his late 30ís

Looking at your chart I think they will go defense at 6 and it might be the correct move. But boy oh boy, when do they get their next quarterback?

The notions of "building from inside out"  
UberAlias : 2/11/2019 7:52 am : link
and "take the best player available" are contradictory. If you are taking the best player you are not building from any direction of your choosing. Makes zero sense.

In here is no plan to secure the franchise QB, or even inclination to recognize it as something that is important. Unless they get lucky and one happens to fall to them (which will never happen because the rest of the league values QBs, so they are always overdrafted), they are committed to settling at the position, to the whimms of the draft. This does not exactly instill confidence.

Eli was clearly BPA  
WillieYoung : 2/11/2019 7:52 am : link
San Diego drafted him 1 knowing he didn't want to sign with them.
joinpa  
UberAlias : 2/11/2019 7:54 am : link
Great question. It's not even on the roadmap of priorities, if we're to take DG at his word.
When you say my opinion  
mdthedream : 2/11/2019 7:55 am : link
is that Dave's opinion or yours?
Assuming thereís no major brain malfunction ...  
Spider56 : 2/11/2019 7:59 am : link
We should be able to get a very good player at #6 ... but you can also get a very good player at #10-12 ...

Iím in the trade down camp ... get as many high picks as you can because there are risks in everyone.
always remember,  
Dave : 2/11/2019 8:10 am : link
unless they've changed, NYG do not rank players 1,2,3,4,5...

they rank players in 'rows' and then take a player from the highest row, depending on need

they may have 5 players ranked in the 1st row, 10 in the 2nd row...

so its always a blend of BPA and Need
RE: Assuming thereís no major brain malfunction ...  
UberAlias : 2/11/2019 8:11 am : link
In comment 14292920 Spider56 said:
Quote:
We should be able to get a very good player at #6 ... but you can also get a very good player at #10-12 ...

Iím in the trade down camp ... get as many high picks as you can because there are risks in everyone.
It's a consideration, for sure. The problem is this: the primary motivation to stockpile draft picks would be if you surveyed the prospects and didn't see a franchise QB in the prospects in this draft and were motivated to accumulate ammunition to go and get your guy next year. The problem is, if we take DG at his word, the QB is not even on their roadmap. He outlines zero path to securing the next QB. They draft best player, which severely limits your ability to draft a QB because they are always drafted above their grade. And any persuasion to stray from BPA would be given to defense or interior, by his words. What is the path to a franchise QB if you don't recognize it as a priority?

From the outlined, it's doubtful they entertain trade down options, and DGs history (never having done it) supports this.
I agree that defense is the strength of this draft  
Rjanyg : 2/11/2019 8:14 am : link
But every team has a different value board. So the question is, which defenders fit the hybrid-multiple front that Betcher uses and will they start from day 1? Will they be more valuable than a future QB?

If the defenders I know Josh Allen would be a starting OLB from day 1. I think Rashan Gary and Ed Oliver could be starting 5 Tech DE from day 1. Quinen Williams would probably move to a 3 Tech and would move BJ Hill back to the 5. I think White would start next to Ogletree from day 1.

Here is the thing with the 3 QBís: they are all very different from each other.
Haskins has a small sample of playing time but his play improved through out the season. Lock had a great 2017 but not a great 2018 mainly because of installation of a different offense. Both have great size and arm strength. Murray is unique in that he is small but has a very strong arm and can throw on the run. He is also fast and can extend plays with his feet. I am not sold on him as being worth the 6th pick and it admittedly has to do with his size.

The NFL is changing though and I can see Murray having success because of the RPO and read option offenses. It will be interesting to see if Arizona takes Murray.
Dave  
UberAlias : 2/11/2019 8:16 am : link
DG made lots of changes to how they organize their board. I don't recall him talking about rows, at least not in detail, that was JR. Until we are informed otherwise, I'm not sure why best player would be interpreted in any other way than best player = highest grade.
He won't force the pick in RD1  
Rong5611 : 2/11/2019 8:17 am : link
They should take the best defensive player available at #6, doesn't matter what the position is (not sure ILB is an immediate need right now thought) -- Unless, Haskins/Murray/Lock are the real deal.

I think QB is more likely in RD2 or a trade up into late RD1, if it makes sense (Jones, Grier).

One other thing, we need to come away from the draft with a center of the future as well. Good ones can be had in rounds 2-4.
RE: Indeed...  
AcidTest : 2/11/2019 9:39 am : link
In comment 14292880 bw in dc said:
Quote:
this is a superior draft with defense, particularly Dline. Itís so deep with quality defenders itís an ideal draft to trade down.

And for the record, Josh Jacobs in a RB that will be a first rounder. His upside is magnificent.


Agreed. I'd be happy if the picks they got for trading down were mostly next year. They could then use those picks to move up to get a QB if necessary.
RE: The most often used refrain regarding the  
Bill L : 2/11/2019 9:48 am : link
In comment 14292905 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Draft around here is ďBest Player Available.Ē

It was definitely the case last season, and true when they passed on a quarterback. Of course this argument almost always discounts ďPositional ValueĒ.

I wonder, how many who used this philosophy believe Eli in 04 fit the restrictive label of, BPA?

Unlike last year I will not be strongly convicted that they made a mistake. But that will have been two years in a row where at 2 and then 6 they passed on the most important position in sports. At the very least unusual moves for a team who has gone 8-24 in it s last two season with a quarterback in his late 30ís

Looking at your chart I think they will go defense at 6 and it might be the correct move. But boy oh boy, when do they get their next quarterback?


I don't think that you can argue that the Giants don't understand positional value. Especially not last year. The added positional value and that value still did not get them close to the intrinsic player value, so they made the decision that they made.
RE: always remember,  
MotownGIANTS : 2/11/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14292922 Dave said:
Quote:
unless they've changed, NYG do not rank players 1,2,3,4,5...

they rank players in 'rows' and then take a player from the highest row, depending on need

they may have 5 players ranked in the 1st row, 10 in the 2nd row...

so its always a blend of BPA and Need


Remember DG changed everything ...
RE: The notions of  
Mike from Ohio : 2/11/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14292912 UberAlias said:
Quote:
and "take the best player available" are contradictory. If you are taking the best player you are not building from any direction of your choosing. Makes zero sense.


^^^This!

There is no one absolute philosophy going into the draft. What if BPA was a RB? There is no possible way they are taking one at #6 after spending #2 on SB last year. Inside out is the same thing. If there is a cornerback that jumps off the board at you, you don't pass on him because he plays outside.

Players are ranked in rows. When the team is on the board they consider who is available at positions of need and whether they are worth that draft slot, or if they can get them later and look to trade down. If there is one or two guys left and several teams picking ahead of them, they will possibly look to trade up. More often than not they likely take the guy in the highest row who fits the position of greatest need.

Maybe if folks will stop trying to pigeon hole what the "philosophy" is they will not be shocked every draft day that they didn't take their guy.
Is it definitive that Barkley was "the best player available?"  
Lambuth_Special : 2/11/2019 11:15 am : link
Chubb had 12 sacks in his rookie year and would've fit a major need on the Giants.
RE: Is it definitive that Barkley was  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/11/2019 11:24 am : link
In comment 14293175 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
Chubb had 12 sacks in his rookie year and would've fit a major need on the Giants.


Chubb is a great player, but he isn't getting 12 sacks on this defense. When you play on the otherside of Von Miller you are going to be facing single teams all day with no help. If you want to go that route Nelson is a better example. He is the only other player in Barkley's class as a player.
This is not complicated  
oldutican : 2/11/2019 12:24 pm : link
If there is a QB available you believe you can win with, take him. If not, then take BPA in areas of need: edge rushers, LBs and Oline.
RE: RE: Is it definitive that Barkley was  
Lambuth_Special : 2/11/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14293190 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14293175 Lambuth_Special said:


Quote:


Chubb had 12 sacks in his rookie year and would've fit a major need on the Giants.



Chubb is a great player, but he isn't getting 12 sacks on this defense. When you play on the otherside of Von Miller you are going to be facing single teams all day with no help. If you want to go that route Nelson is a better example. He is the only other player in Barkley's class as a player.


On the other hand, Chubb is in rarefied company with only Jevon Kearse, Dwight Freeny, and Simeon Rice having more sacks in their rookie seasons.

I mean, if Chubb benefited from being across Von Miller, couldn't we say the same about Osi playing across Strahan in his breakout season in 2005?
if we don't go QB  
ryanmkeane : 2/11/2019 12:46 pm : link
White would be my pick. He has the highest floor and screams pro bowler to me out of all these defensive guys I think
Telegraphing the Pick  
Samiam : 2/11/2019 12:49 pm : link
Gettleman's statement regarding drafting a QB for need and not value might suggest he won't take a QB at 6 which seems to be in line with much of what I read ( as though that means anything). That said, I wouldn't believe anything that he or any other front office person says to the public and that's acknowledging what he said about Barkley last year.
RE: Is it definitive that Barkley was  
arcarsenal : 2/11/2019 12:49 pm : link
In comment 14293175 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
Chubb had 12 sacks in his rookie year and would've fit a major need on the Giants.


There's no Von Miller on the other side here. He'd likely not have been as productive.

I do think he's an excellent player but since people love to do this... Denver only won 1 more game in 2018 than they did the year before. So, how much impact did Chubb truly provide?

(I hate this logic, but it seems to be a BBI staple, so...)

Barkley also ran behind one of the worst offensive lines in football for at least half the season.
RE: RE: RE: Is it definitive that Barkley was  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 2/11/2019 1:01 pm : link
In comment 14293295 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
In comment 14293190 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


In comment 14293175 Lambuth_Special said:


Quote:


Chubb had 12 sacks in his rookie year and would've fit a major need on the Giants.



Chubb is a great player, but he isn't getting 12 sacks on this defense. When you play on the otherside of Von Miller you are going to be facing single teams all day with no help. If you want to go that route Nelson is a better example. He is the only other player in Barkley's class as a player.



On the other hand, Chubb is in rarefied company with only Jevon Kearse, Dwight Freeny, and Simeon Rice having more sacks in their rookie seasons.

I mean, if Chubb benefited from being across Von Miller, couldn't we say the same about Osi playing across Strahan in his breakout season in 2005?

It's like Aldon Smith and Justin Smith, who was the only player ver I felt uncomfortable watching us play against.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Is it definitive that Barkley was  
Lambuth_Special : 2/11/2019 1:06 pm : link
Quote:
It's like Aldon Smith and Justin Smith, who was the only player ver I felt uncomfortable watching us play against.


Aldon Smith was a terror and definitely set all kinds of records (for number of DUIs).
Think DG gets a blue chip  
TMS : 2/11/2019 1:44 pm : link
defensive player at # 6. Just like he did last year on offense with Barkley. Most of the top guys have all pro potential. Hoping his film watching helps him find one.
RE: Think DG gets a blue chip  
flycatcher : 2/11/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14293394 TMS said:
Quote:
defensive player at # 6. Just like he did last year on offense with Barkley. Most of the top guys have all pro potential. Hoping his film watching helps him find one.

This.
The #6 pick is NYGís best opportunity to get the impact D player we badly need.
How?  
Doomster : 2/11/2019 2:48 pm : link
- Feels they finally settled or calmed down the offensive line.


They STILL need 3 OLmen......
It starts with continuing to upgrade the OL  
Torrag : 2/11/2019 3:37 pm : link
We desperately need to upgrade RT as the top priority. Wheeler is a hot mess. Then upgrading OC or RG comes into play, perhaps even both but I could live with one.

If DG can get that accomplished we move onto the next step.
RE: RE: Indeed...  
bw in dc : 2/11/2019 3:42 pm : link
In comment 14292893 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 14292880 bw in dc said:


Quote:


this is a superior draft with defense, particularly Dline. Itís so deep with quality defenders itís an ideal draft to trade down.

And for the record, Josh Jacobs in a RB that will be a first rounder. His upside is magnificent.



But you would never draft him there as you have stated unequivocally ad nauseam that SB was a bad pick and that you can get quality RB's in the 4th and 5th round...


Correct, I wouldn't. That's a philosophical position.

But Jacobs is a first round talent - for sure.
doesn't make sense  
Bill L : 2/11/2019 3:44 pm : link
if they're all fungible, then they're all 4th rounders.
I will stick to my mantra for this draft  
idiotsavant : 2/11/2019 4:28 pm : link
Play heavily into the market for Defense. Try to add an additional early in round 2.

Looks like round one quality DL will be there.

Likely order:

6- DL
37- DL
40?- Pass defending linebacker


Your looking for game changers on Amy team in 6 and 38...and 'we currently lack and need" at 40 or similar.
Typo  
idiotsavant : 2/11/2019 4:29 pm : link
Any team
RE: I will stick to my mantra for this draft  
giantstock : 2/11/2019 4:43 pm : link
In comment 14293628 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
Play heavily into the market for Defense. Try to add an additional early in round 2.

Looks like round one quality DL will be there.

Likely order:

6- DL
37- DL
40?- Pass defending linebacker


Your looking for game changers on Amy team in 6 and 38...and 'we currently lack and need" at 40 or similar.


I;ve said I'm okay with doing this provided they don't like theQB that much.

With that said, can we agree that until the OLine is fixed and they get a good Qb that Barkley and OBJ aren't much "game changers' vs the very good teams? Maybe an isolated game but you get the point I think-- right?

If they don't get a Qb this year -- which I'm fine with-- then in 2020 they get one but how good will he be? More than likely he won't be ready until 2021. Which means we would have wasted 3 years of Barkley and OBJ, right?



how good will he be?  
bc4life : 2/11/2019 5:08 pm : link
don't know. but he will have better tean around him.
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