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QBs in 2019

Pep22 : 2/11/2019 9:26 am
I know many still subscribe to the notion that the 2019 class is an underwhelming QB group. Others want Eli Manning to play until he's 60. For those of us who think its necessary to identify the next QB asap while not settling for a guy merely that plays the position because of need, please see below.

I personally do not think the 2019 class is inferior to the 2018 or even 2020 class. I think there are three compelling prospects who project as starters with upside. Before I get there, I do want to say that I think there are 4 guys who strike me as decent backup types: Taylor Cornelius (who I like a bit more than others), Daniel Jones, Jarrett Stidham and Will Grier (admittedly, I don't like these guys as potential starters).

The 3 starter prospects:

Kyler Murray: Blazing speed, above average arm, highly competitive kid. The concern is obviously the size. That is valid. However, the following mitigate the concerns: 1) he is so quick that he doesn't really take hits 2) he gets out of bounds and has an easy baseball slide to avoid contact (see Russell Wilson for how that can be effective). The kid doesn't have Wilson's frame but he clearly is a strong guy who is diligent in the weight room.

Dwayne Haskins: Good size, tremendous accuracy. Arm talent is very good. Good enough athlete. Inexperienced, yes, but shows a lot of advanced skills/savvy.

Drew Lock: Prototypical size, arm talent that is a hair below Patrick Mahomes but in anybody's class after that. Basketball background that offers fluidity/coordination/balance not unlike Sam Darnold.

Other than Baker Mayfield, I don't see how the 2018 or 2020 guys rank above this class.
I don't either  
TommyWiseau : 2/11/2019 9:29 am : link
Mayfield was better then all these guys but Rosen, Allen, Jackson and Darnold all had their warts just like there kids do. I think Lock has a chance to be a special player but it is going to take dedication and great coaching to get him right
Maybe you'll see when the 2019 class actually plays in the NFL  
ZogZerg : 2/11/2019 9:31 am : link
..
Well if these guys are so great....  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 9:32 am : link
then they will go 1-2-3 in the draft. Since they are just as good (pure speculation) as guys who have been rated higher throughout their careers.

And since we dont have a good team or the assets to give up, we shouldnt worry about them and worry about building the team from the trenches.
I think Darnold is a near-lock to be a good QB  
giantstock : 2/11/2019 9:33 am : link
Not great but good. So I'm skeptical ofyour opinion.

with that said - if they like any of the 3 QB's enough in which their grade is somewhat close to the 6th pick-- u take him.
I  
AcidTest : 2/11/2019 9:37 am : link
think Haskins and Lock will be gone before six, and that DG correctly won't trade up to get either. That means no QB at #6. Jones will be gone by the second round, and I don't see DG taking Grier. My guess is another day three QB (Cornelius?) to compete with Lauletta, or possibly trading for Sloter.
RE: I  
Reb8thVA : 2/11/2019 9:40 am : link
In comment 14293004 AcidTest said:
Quote:
think Haskins and Lock will be gone before six, and that DG correctly won't trade up to get either. That means no QB at #6. Jones will be gone by the second round, and I don't see DG taking Grier. My guess is another day three QB (Cornelius?) to compete with Lauletta, or possibly trading for Sloter.


From your lips to God's ears because that means two very talented DL/Edge Rushers will have fallen to us.
RE: I  
Bill L : 2/11/2019 9:41 am : link
In comment 14293004 AcidTest said:
Quote:
think Haskins and Lock will be gone before six, and that DG correctly won't trade up to get either. That means no QB at #6. Jones will be gone by the second round, and I don't see DG taking Grier. My guess is another day three QB (Cornelius?) to compete with Lauletta, or possibly trading for Sloter.


From your mouth to God's ear. I salivate over the prospect of having 2 QB's go before we pick (and would be even more in ecstasy if somehow someone also jumped up to take Murray. At the least, one of the 4 top picks sliding down to us??? Whoo Hoo.
RE: RE: I  
Bill L : 2/11/2019 9:42 am : link
In comment 14293011 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
In comment 14293004 AcidTest said:


Quote:


think Haskins and Lock will be gone before six, and that DG correctly won't trade up to get either. That means no QB at #6. Jones will be gone by the second round, and I don't see DG taking Grier. My guess is another day three QB (Cornelius?) to compete with Lauletta, or possibly trading for Sloter.



From your lips to God's ears because that means two very talented DL/Edge Rushers will have fallen to us.


Same cliche, but I said it wrong.
Based on last year..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 9:42 am : link
how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.

We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.
RE: Well if these guys are so great....  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 9:44 am : link
In comment 14292992 dep026 said:
Quote:
then they will go 1-2-3 in the draft. Since they are just as good (pure speculation) as guys who have been rated higher throughout their careers.

And since we dont have a good team or the assets to give up, we shouldnt worry about them and worry about building the team from the trenches.


The Josh's (Allen/Rosen) didn't go 1, 2, 3, did they?

I suspect much of the pessimism about this class has to do with the Eli sentimentality factor.

RE: RE: Well if these guys are so great....  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 9:45 am : link
In comment 14293019 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14292992 dep026 said:


Quote:


then they will go 1-2-3 in the draft. Since they are just as good (pure speculation) as guys who have been rated higher throughout their careers.

And since we dont have a good team or the assets to give up, we shouldnt worry about them and worry about building the team from the trenches.



The Josh's (Allen/Rosen) didn't go 1, 2, 3, did they?

I suspect much of the pessimism about this class has to do with the Eli sentimentality factor.


Or the players skill factor. Either/or.
RE: I  
The_Boss : 2/11/2019 9:45 am : link
In comment 14293004 AcidTest said:
Quote:
think Haskins and Lock will be gone before six, and that DG correctly won't trade up to get either. That means no QB at #6. Jones will be gone by the second round, and I don't see DG taking Grier. My guess is another day three QB (Cornelius?) to compete with Lauletta, or possibly trading for Sloter.


Please no more day 3 QBís.
Darnold may grow, even become very good,  
Big Blue '56 : 2/11/2019 9:47 am : link
but everything they said about his flaws in college, are exactly what he showed in year 1 at the pro level.

TBD
RE: I think Darnold is a near-lock to be a good QB  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 9:47 am : link
In comment 14292994 giantstock said:
Quote:
Not great but good. So I'm skeptical ofyour opinion.

with that said - if they like any of the 3 QB's enough in which their grade is somewhat close to the 6th pick-- u take him.


I think Darnold has some nice attributes: size, mobility, good not great arm, seems to prepare himself like a pro. I do think his decision making, whether at USC or NYJ, shows some concern.
If I were fans of the 1st round picks last year...  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 9:48 am : link
Baker - Obviously you are pumped about his play. He did what exactly what you want a rookie QB to do. However, the attitude thing is something to keep an eye on going forward.

Darnold - you should be excited. Despite his tendency to throw bad INTs, he made a shit ton of plays last year with absolutely nothing on the OL or skill players. He made a lot of improvised plays and had some really good games. Obviously needs to get better.

Allen - there's hope. Arm is huge. Athleticism is there. His throwing needs work. And he needs help too. But he didnt embarrass himself.

Rosen - Made some big time throws but was beat up all year. His team stunk. His OL was god awful. You're optimistic, but need to see more next year.

Jackson - you are excited yet nervous as hell. He makes plays that no one else in the NFL can make. But his throwing needs a ton of work. And the risk of injury and amount of hits he takes is terrifying.

Overall, each fan base should be excited with what they got.
RE: RE: Well if these guys are so great....  
Bill L : 2/11/2019 9:49 am : link
In comment 14293019 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14292992 dep026 said:


Quote:


then they will go 1-2-3 in the draft. Since they are just as good (pure speculation) as guys who have been rated higher throughout their careers.

And since we dont have a good team or the assets to give up, we shouldnt worry about them and worry about building the team from the trenches.



The Josh's (Allen/Rosen) didn't go 1, 2, 3, did they?

I suspect much of the pessimism about this class has to do with the Eli sentimentality factor.


And you would be wrong.
RE: Darnold may grow, even become very good,  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 9:49 am : link
In comment 14293026 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
but everything they said about his flaws in college, are exactly what he showed in year 1 at the pro level.

TBD


He didnt fumble nearly as much. And rookie QBs throwing INTs isnt really that shocking is it? He threw only one more INT than Baker Mayfield last year.
RE: Based on last year..  
giantstock : 2/11/2019 9:50 am : link
In comment 14293016 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.

We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.


Bullshit.

IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.
RE: RE: Based on last year..  
Big Blue '56 : 2/11/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14293036 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14293016 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.

We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.



Bullshit.

IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.


And vice versa
I think  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 9:52 am : link
a better question for the 2019 QB class pessimists is, aside from Mayfield who I think is a tier above, what about Darnold/Rosen/Allen ranks above Haskins/Lock/Murray (eliminate Murray if you feel his height is a non starter)?
What??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 9:52 am : link
Quote:
I suspect much of the pessimism about this class has to do with the Eli sentimentality factor.


There's been near unanimous pessimism about this class from the football world - not just Giants fans. Some scouts are saying there isn't even a 1st round talent available.

What is the fuck does that have to do with sentiments about Eli? The whole football world loves eli that much??
RE: RE: Based on last year..  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 9:53 am : link
In comment 14293036 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14293016 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.

We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.



Bullshit.

IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.


People are buried in the fact we drafted a generational, HOF type players.

Damn us stupid posters!!!!!!
RE: RE: Based on last year..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14293036 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14293016 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.

We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.



Bullshit.

IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.


Bullshit?? Exactly what has any of the young QB's shown that would say definitively that they will be good QB's? You'd have the same questions if Darnold had the year he did on the Giants.

I'm not saying these QB's won't become good or great. What I am saying is based on last year, what did they show to conclusively say they will be great?

Nothing. And I have no fucking clue what that has to do with Barkley or Eli - but carry on with your errant crusade.
RE: What??  
Bill L : 2/11/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14293040 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


I suspect much of the pessimism about this class has to do with the Eli sentimentality factor.



There's been near unanimous pessimism about this class from the football world - not just Giants fans. Some scouts are saying there isn't even a 1st round talent available.

What is the fuck does that have to do with sentiments about Eli? The whole football world loves eli that much??


It's not even the Eli or Barkley fans either. The incessant refrain at this time last year was that you had to eschew talent to take a QB at #2 because the 2019 class would have no QB's in it or, at the very least, no QB's of ability.
RE: What??  
GoBlue6599 : 2/11/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14293040 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


I suspect much of the pessimism about this class has to do with the Eli sentimentality factor.



There's been near unanimous pessimism about this class from the football world - not just Giants fans. Some scouts are saying there isn't even a 1st round talent available.

What is the fuck does that have to do with sentiments about Eli? The whole football world loves eli that much??

The same ďscoutsĒ that said there were no franchise QBs in 2016 and what a shocker all 3 1st Round picks won there division and played a home playoff game.. Mahomes was the NFL MVP
The same scouts who laughed at the eagles and Rams when they traded to the top of the draft for Goff and Wentz.. well who is laughing now
Those must be NYG scouts lol
Where was this thread 2 months ago  
WillVAB : 2/11/2019 10:01 am : link
Odds are OP has watched 1 game tops of these 3 and is regurgitating the same shit draftniks are writing.

Sheep.
Rankings, obviously an opinion rather than fact  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 10:02 am : link
Size: Allen, Lock, Rosen, Darnold, Haskins, Mayfield, Murray

Athletic ability: Murray, Allen, Darnold, Mayfield, Lock, Rosen, Haskins

Arm: Allen, Lock, Haskins, Murray, Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen

Accuracy: Haskins, Mayfield, Rosen, Lock, Rosen, Darnold, Allen

Decision making: Mayfield, Haskins, Murray, Rosen, Lock, Rosen, Darnold

Improvisational skills: Murray, Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, Lock, Haskins, Rosen

Perception of leadership ability: Mayfield, Darnold, Murray, Haskins, Lock, Allen, Rosen
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 10:05 am : link
what a fucking clown:

Quote:
The same ďscoutsĒ that said there were no franchise QBs in 2016 and what a shocker all 3 1st Round picks won there division and played a home playoff game.. Mahomes was the NFL MVP
The same scouts who laughed at the eagles and Rams when they traded to the top of the draft for Goff and Wentz.. well who is laughing now
Those must be NYG scouts lol


Mahomes was drafted in 2017 and Paxton Lynch didn't win shit.

Not to mention, my point wasn't if the QB are going to be any good - it is to refute that this class isn't looked at as being poor. But from your posts, I don't think you grasp these simple discussion points.
RE: Where was this thread 2 months ago  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 10:05 am : link
In comment 14293063 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Odds are OP has watched 1 game tops of these 3 and is regurgitating the same shit draftniks are writing.

Sheep.


Why would the thread been more compelling 2 months ago? I've probably seen 5 games MIN of each. Love it when assholes get disrespectful for no reason (on the internet, not in real life).
Pep, I enjoy your posts.  
Big Blue '56 : 2/11/2019 10:06 am : link
keep them coming
RE: RE: I  
AcidTest : 2/11/2019 10:07 am : link
In comment 14293022 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14293004 AcidTest said:


Quote:


think Haskins and Lock will be gone before six, and that DG correctly won't trade up to get either. That means no QB at #6. Jones will be gone by the second round, and I don't see DG taking Grier. My guess is another day three QB (Cornelius?) to compete with Lauletta, or possibly trading for Sloter.



Please no more day 3 QBís.


I probably don't want another day three QB either, although Cornelius certainly has an NFL arm and great size. He also only played one year, so may not have reached his ceiling. My guess is he could be had in the fifth round.
RE: RE: What??  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 10:12 am : link
In comment 14293062 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:

The same ďscoutsĒ that said there were no franchise QBs in 2016 and what a shocker all 3 1st Round picks won there division and played a home playoff game.. Mahomes was the NFL MVP
The same scouts who laughed at the eagles and Rams when they traded to the top of the draft for Goff and Wentz.. well who is laughing now
Those must be NYG scouts lol


1. 2016 had Goff, Wentz, and Lynch in the first round. So lets try and get facts straight for once. Goff choked the last half of the year. Wentz was outplayed by his backup in the last year and a half. And Lynch is going to be cut. Good one though!

2. 2017 class is off to a good start. Trubisky and Watson sucked big donkey dick in the playoffs. And Watson is still a major injury risk. And Trubisky is carried by his defense. Yes, Mahomes was a great find. Good for KC.

3
RE: Darnold may grow, even become very good,  
UberAlias : 2/11/2019 10:15 am : link
In comment 14293026 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
but everything they said about his flaws in college, are exactly what he showed in year 1 at the pro level.

TBD
Not true. The criticism with Darnold is fumbles. Everyone looped that in as "turnovers' with is not correct --fumbles and ints at two completely different things. Darnold's ints in college weren't bad --he threw fewer ints per game than Rosen and fewer per game than Eli did in college. It was the fumbles inflated the turnover stats compared to other prospects. How did Darnold do with fumbles? He had 5 which was tied for 29th - 34th in the NFL, hardly a problem.
What bearings does a class even have?  
George from PA : 2/11/2019 10:16 am : link
It is all about the individuals.

I love when people say Mayfield,now... who was never considered the top guy....until word got out that the Browns wanted him.

Sounds like 3 possibly 4 decent guys this year.....but who knows how the Giants feel about anyone of them.....

If they want a QB, it will be one over the others....who knows if any other would even be considered
The only thing I know about college football QBs  
weeg in the bronx : 2/11/2019 10:18 am : link
Is there is not such thing as a lock. Comparing classes is impossible, especially pre combine.
Tread lightly and choose wisely.
All of the first round rookie QBs  
UberAlias : 2/11/2019 10:19 am : link
Showed a lot of promise last year. First year QBs coming into bad teams, some outright dysfunctional.
odds  
Steve in Greenwich : 2/11/2019 10:21 am : link
are much greater that Lock is available in the 2nd round than him being a top 10 pick. He's not very well thought of in NFL circles. Has all the tools but no processing power. Would not at all be surprised if he's this years Nassib / Webb come draft night (potential 1st round pick in free fall). Sadly that appears to be the Giants go to for a draft pick.
And all..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 10:22 am : link
oft he first round QB's showed a lot of things to worry about going forward too.

I really don't think we know anything more about their liklihood for future success than we did before the draft.

For every positive attribute, there were negative attributes too.

That's why it will likely be 2021 before we definitively know, even though patience in proclaiming them good or bad will not wait that long.
RE: RE: Darnold may grow, even become very good,  
Strahan91 : 2/11/2019 10:22 am : link
In comment 14293079 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 14293026 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


but everything they said about his flaws in college, are exactly what he showed in year 1 at the pro level.

TBD

Not true. The criticism with Darnold is fumbles. Everyone looped that in as "turnovers' with is not correct --fumbles and ints at two completely different things. Darnold's ints in college weren't bad --he threw fewer ints per game than Rosen and fewer per game than Eli did in college. It was the fumbles inflated the turnover stats compared to other prospects. How did Darnold do with fumbles? He had 5 which was tied for 29th - 34th in the NFL, hardly a problem.

Darnold's turnover concerns had plenty to do with interceptions. The concerns were around his off platform throws and poor decision-making. When he runs to avoid pressure he was hit or miss in college. He would make a wow throw followed up by a terrible decision. The concern was that a lot of those throws would be picked off in the pros where you need better ball placement given the better DB play. Sure enough, this is what we saw from him as a rookie.

Before Darnold's fanboys bring out the pitchforks, I'm not saying he can't or won't improve in that department. I'm simply addressing the comment that interceptions weren't a concern for him coming out as a prospect.
RE: RE: Where was this thread 2 months ago  
WillVAB : 2/11/2019 10:23 am : link
In comment 14293068 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14293063 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Odds are OP has watched 1 game tops of these 3 and is regurgitating the same shit draftniks are writing.

Sheep.



Why would the thread been more compelling 2 months ago? I've probably seen 5 games MIN of each. Love it when assholes get disrespectful for no reason (on the internet, not in real life).


Because two months ago the prevailing view here was this was a weak QB class. Nothing has reallly changed but here you are regurgitating the same shit being thrown around on a simple draft google search.
It's not a good QB class  
AcesUp : 2/11/2019 10:24 am : link
That does not mean that the Giants are powerless to address the position. They're trying to draft a QB and not a QB class.
Strahan  
UberAlias : 2/11/2019 10:32 am : link
Fair enough, if that's how you interpret it. That's just not the argument I heard. What was routinely referenced around here was the "turnovers" as indicated by combined int/fumbles. We simply did not see fumbles as an issue this year.
RE: RE: RE: What??  
GoBlue6599 : 2/11/2019 10:33 am : link
In comment 14293077 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14293062 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:



The same ďscoutsĒ that said there were no franchise QBs in 2016 and what a shocker all 3 1st Round picks won there division and played a home playoff game.. Mahomes was the NFL MVP
The same scouts who laughed at the eagles and Rams when they traded to the top of the draft for Goff and Wentz.. well who is laughing now
Those must be NYG scouts lol



1. 2016 had Goff, Wentz, and Lynch in the first round. So lets try and get facts straight for once. Goff choked the last half of the year. Wentz was outplayed by his backup in the last year and a half. And Lynch is going to be cut. Good one though!

2. 2017 class is off to a good start. Trubisky and Watson sucked big donkey dick in the playoffs. And Watson is still a major injury risk. And Trubisky is carried by his defense. Yes, Mahomes was a great find. Good for KC.

3

I remember Eliís 1st playoff game in Giants Stadium.. it was as bad as a QB can play... if Trubisky and Watson sucked donkey dick Eli was gangbanged by said Donkeys.. my point being 1 bad playoff game wonít kill a career and these guys are big reasons why there teams were in the playoffs
Trubisky had a damn good year letís not discredit him because his team plays good defense. Without Trubisky the Bears lost to the NYG for crying out loud
RE: RE: RE: Based on last year..  
giantstock : 2/11/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14293048 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14293036 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14293016 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.

We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.



Bullshit.

IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.



Bullshit?? Exactly what has any of the young QB's shown that would say definitively that they will be good QB's? You'd have the same questions if Darnold had the year he did on the Giants.

I'm not saying these QB's won't become good or great. What I am saying is based on last year, what did they show to conclusively say they will be great?

Nothing. And I have no fucking clue what that has to do with Barkley or Eli - but carry on with your errant crusade.


Read Deps post. I;m not going to get into a back and forth on a Giants site about Darnold. I don;t give a shit about the Jets. I can give you my opinions and observations but like oyu I'm a Giants fan and ntogoingto get into it. It's not like my opinion is out in left field.

But you can google go on jetswire and as the artcle states, theJets havefound their long-term QB. You can read "touchdownwire" in which they say looks like Darnold is a franchise QB. All the reasons in that article given are why if you were a Jet fan you'd be confident. I don;t want to get into a tit-for-tat on his positives on the linksvs what you see etc.

And i'd like to remind you I did NOT SAY he would be "GREAT."

I didnt even say "Very GOOD." I said he would be good.

This is the problem I continually have with you and your ilk. You don't want to hear criticism of the draft pick and ELi (you even posted that to me) so you think everything is some swat at him and when you don't agree with another you just exaggerate what the other is saying to justify you pov.

And imo you're in denial about ELi and Barkley. It's about them with you.

anyways-- WHERE DID i CALL DARNOLD "GREAT?"" Please provide the link where I said that?
C'mon stop this nonsense.


Way  
AcidTest : 2/11/2019 10:37 am : link
too early to judge any of the QBs from last year IMO. I'm not sure what people expected. They were rookies on bad teams. They might bust. They might be great. We just don't know. The sample size of games is just too small right now to make any definitive conclusion.
RE: RE: RE: RE: What??  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 10:37 am : link
In comment 14293111 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:
In comment 14293077 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14293062 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:



The same ďscoutsĒ that said there were no franchise QBs in 2016 and what a shocker all 3 1st Round picks won there division and played a home playoff game.. Mahomes was the NFL MVP
The same scouts who laughed at the eagles and Rams when they traded to the top of the draft for Goff and Wentz.. well who is laughing now
Those must be NYG scouts lol



1. 2016 had Goff, Wentz, and Lynch in the first round. So lets try and get facts straight for once. Goff choked the last half of the year. Wentz was outplayed by his backup in the last year and a half. And Lynch is going to be cut. Good one though!

2. 2017 class is off to a good start. Trubisky and Watson sucked big donkey dick in the playoffs. And Watson is still a major injury risk. And Trubisky is carried by his defense. Yes, Mahomes was a great find. Good for KC.

3


I remember Eliís 1st playoff game in Giants Stadium.. it was as bad as a QB can play... if Trubisky and Watson sucked donkey dick Eli was gangbanged by said Donkeys.. my point being 1 bad playoff game wonít kill a career and these guys are big reasons why there teams were in the playoffs
Trubisky had a damn good year letís not discredit him because his team plays good defense. Without Trubisky the Bears lost to the NYG for crying out loud


You remember a game specficially when you were 4 years old? Sure you do...
RE: It's not a good QB class  
Strahan91 : 2/11/2019 10:37 am : link
In comment 14293096 AcesUp said:
Quote:
That does not mean that the Giants are powerless to address the position. They're trying to draft a QB and not a QB class.

This x 100. I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand such a simple concept. 2005 was a poor quarterback class but Aaron Rodgers emerged from it.
You really..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 10:39 am : link
fucking suck at a lot of things, reading comprehension among them.

Just look at my opening response:

Quote:
Bullshit?? Exactly what has any of the young QB's shown that would say definitively that they will be good QB's?


See the word "great" in there? You see the word "good". Alright then.
RE: What bearings does a class even have?  
bluepepper : 2/11/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14293081 George from PA said:
Quote:
It is all about the individuals.

I love when people say Mayfield,now... who was never considered the top guy....until word got out that the Browns wanted him.

It's hilarious how many people act like they had Mayfield pegged all along and just didn't like the other QB's. Nearly all BBI discussions last year were about the entire class and people who didn't want a QB wanted none of them including Mayfield who until a couple of days before the draft was expected to be available at 2.
Trubisky isn't very good. When the oddsmakers  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/11/2019 10:45 am : link
barely drop the line in account of Chase Daniels you aren't very good. He is a run first qb. Mahomes is a an all pro QB and Watson is going to live in the top 10 qb group for the next 10 years. Thats a tremendous qb class regardless and sentiment was very down come draft time.
RE: RE: It's not a good QB class  
Johnny5 : 2/11/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14293117 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 14293096 AcesUp said:


Quote:


That does not mean that the Giants are powerless to address the position. They're trying to draft a QB and not a QB class.


This x 100. I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand such a simple concept. 2005 was a poor quarterback class but Aaron Rodgers emerged from it.

I actually trust Gettleman, I am a BPA guy and I fully believe Gettleman means it when he says it... that said I support whoever they draft. I hope they do have a QB rated high on their board and they get him. But I don't want them to reach/overdraft. I have not heard one person say they want Eli to play until he is 60, that's just a stupid dig by the OP. Anyone with a brain knows they have an eye out for the next QB, as well they should. But don't draft one just because like I see a lot of people here seemingly advocating. It's mind numbing actually lol. BTW Strahan91 I totally agree with your Darnold assessment. My Uncle is a lifelong Jets fan so I actually watch the Jets. I think he has potential but I am still not sold on him. Time will tell.
RE: RE: What bearings does a class even have?  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/11/2019 10:47 am : link
In comment 14293121 bluepepper said:
Quote:
In comment 14293081 George from PA said:


Quote:


It is all about the individuals.

I love when people say Mayfield,now... who was never considered the top guy....until word got out that the Browns wanted him.



It's hilarious how many people act like they had Mayfield pegged all along and just didn't like the other QB's. Nearly all BBI discussions last year were about the entire class and people who didn't want a QB wanted none of them including Mayfield who until a couple of days before the draft was expected to be available at 2.


Mayfield was always my top guy. All the "concerns" about him really weren't real concerns in my eyes. Just things to knock him for because they personally don't like the guy. And I can't remember where I read it but some poll after the draft 11 NFL GMs had him as their 1st qb.

What worries me the most is I get the feeling that Mayfield wasn't even on the Giants radar.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: What??  
GoBlue6599 : 2/11/2019 10:49 am : link
In comment 14293116 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14293111 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:


In comment 14293077 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14293062 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:



The same ďscoutsĒ that said there were no franchise QBs in 2016 and what a shocker all 3 1st Round picks won there division and played a home playoff game.. Mahomes was the NFL MVP
The same scouts who laughed at the eagles and Rams when they traded to the top of the draft for Goff and Wentz.. well who is laughing now
Those must be NYG scouts lol



1. 2016 had Goff, Wentz, and Lynch in the first round. So lets try and get facts straight for once. Goff choked the last half of the year. Wentz was outplayed by his backup in the last year and a half. And Lynch is going to be cut. Good one though!

2. 2017 class is off to a good start. Trubisky and Watson sucked big donkey dick in the playoffs. And Watson is still a major injury risk. And Trubisky is carried by his defense. Yes, Mahomes was a great find. Good for KC.

3


I remember Eliís 1st playoff game in Giants Stadium.. it was as bad as a QB can play... if Trubisky and Watson sucked donkey dick Eli was gangbanged by said Donkeys.. my point being 1 bad playoff game wonít kill a career and these guys are big reasons why there teams were in the playoffs
Trubisky had a damn good year letís not discredit him because his team plays good defense. Without Trubisky the Bears lost to the NYG for crying out loud



You remember a game specficially when you were 4 years old? Sure you do...

I was 19 actually and I remember that game vividly. Eli was awful air mailing Shockey and Plax repeatedly gave the NYG no shot
There is no way  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 10:52 am : link
you are over 30 years old. None whatsoever. And if you are, I feel bad for your parents and what you have become.
Really??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 10:53 am : link
Quote:
I was 19 actually and I remember that game vividly. Eli was awful air mailing Shockey and Plax repeatedly gave the NYG no shot


How vividly do you remember the repeated two times Plax was targeted??

By the way, Eli only had 18 attempts and completed 10.

And one of the attempts to Plax was underthrown for a INT.

So that one time he airmailed him must have been a bitch!!
Young qb's  
GiantGrit : 2/11/2019 10:54 am : link
Have areas with a lot of promise, and others of concern. Yes, not all deficiencies are equal. But to knock this class while acting like last year had a bunch of can't miss guys is kind of absurd.

I see no reason Haskins or Lock can't turn into good quarterbacks, especially Dwayne. His demeanor is awesome. He got better as the year went along. Would love him in blue.

Coaching, desire to improve, even luck in avoiding injuries etc....the path to qb stardom is complex.
RE: Really??  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14293145 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


I was 19 actually and I remember that game vividly. Eli was awful air mailing Shockey and Plax repeatedly gave the NYG no shot



How vividly do you remember the repeated two times Plax was targeted??

By the way, Eli only had 18 attempts and completed 10.

And one of the attempts to Plax was underthrown for a INT.

So that one time he airmailed him must have been a bitch!!


He was sitting in the same row as Antdog. Duh!
RE: What bearings does a class even have?  
giantstock : 2/11/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14293081 George from PA said:
Quote:
It is all about the individuals.

I love when people say Mayfield,now... who was never considered the top guy....until word got out that the Browns wanted him.

Sounds like 3 possibly 4 decent guys this year.....but who knows how the Giants feel about anyone of them.....

If they want a QB, it will be one over the others....who knows if any other would even be considered


I know Greg Cosell loved him. He's a pretty good source, isn;t he? He LOVED him.

As far as why does it matter for example if some poster loved a guy who eventually turns into a bust that he can't criticize DG?

I agree that a QB class is unimportant  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 10:57 am : link
to the extent that you get your guy. But my point is that I think there are 2 possibly 3 (depending on whether you feel Murray's size is a deal breaker) guys who are right there with any QB not named Mayfield in the hyped 2018 class. At this point, Mayfield stands alone because the kid is the most intuitive and the best play maker of the bunch.
RE: There is no way  
GoBlue6599 : 2/11/2019 10:58 am : link
In comment 14293142 dep026 said:
Quote:
you are over 30 years old. None whatsoever. And if you are, I feel bad for your parents and what you have become.

Iím 32 in fact and itís funny you can say those things and you donít know anything about me.. like I said before I just wanna talk Giants football with other fanatics.. Iím not here to banter back and forth with you or fatty from North Carolina
RE: RE: There is no way  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 11:00 am : link
In comment 14293154 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:
In comment 14293142 dep026 said:


Quote:


you are over 30 years old. None whatsoever. And if you are, I feel bad for your parents and what you have become.


Iím 32 in fact and itís funny you can say those things and you donít know anything about me.. like I said before I just wanna talk Giants football with other fanatics.. Iím not here to banter back and forth with you or fatty from North Carolina


Yet you respond, personally attack, and make up lies every time we post something.

You're 32? Wow.
I don't see the Giants drafting another QB in ....  
GFAN52 : 2/11/2019 11:05 am : link
rounds 3-4 as Eli's potential replacement. Been there done that.
RE: RE: RE: There is no way  
GoBlue6599 : 2/11/2019 11:05 am : link
In comment 14293155 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14293154 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:


In comment 14293142 dep026 said:


Quote:


you are over 30 years old. None whatsoever. And if you are, I feel bad for your parents and what you have become.


Iím 32 in fact and itís funny you can say those things and you donít know anything about me.. like I said before I just wanna talk Giants football with other fanatics.. Iím not here to banter back and forth with you or fatty from North Carolina



Yet you respond, personally attack, and make up lies every time we post something.

You're 32? Wow.

October 1986
RE: Young qb's  
Bill L : 2/11/2019 11:18 am : link
In comment 14293147 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Have areas with a lot of promise, and others of concern. Yes, not all deficiencies are equal. But to knock this class while acting like last year had a bunch of can't miss guys is kind of absurd.

I see no reason Haskins or Lock can't turn into good quarterbacks, especially Dwayne. His demeanor is awesome. He got better as the year went along. Would love him in blue.

Coaching, desire to improve, even luck in avoiding injuries etc....the path to qb stardom is complex.


But he's got great demeanor...?

And, I'll bet he can cook.
RE: I don't see the Giants drafting another QB in ....  
Big Blue '56 : 2/11/2019 11:37 am : link
In comment 14293162 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
rounds 3-4 as Eli's potential replacement. Been there done that.


Yup. Why would another 3rd or 4th round QB pick give us any hope? We still have Lauletta and who knows what he will turn out to be or not turn out to be?
I agree  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 11:42 am : link
that we have to take this seriously meaning not kick the QB can down the road again, determine if we can get to the point where we have a conviction (to use Accorsi's word) about any of these 3 guys (KM, DH, DL) or I suppose DJ.
This 2019 QB class is very confusing...  
bw in dc : 2/11/2019 12:00 pm : link
There is certainly 8-10 interesting players who have various talents. And some with first round skills - Lock (arm and athleticism), Murray (speed & improvisation), Haskins (size, accuracy), Grier (playmaker).

But there are glaring holes in everyone's game that are glaring and create question marks. And with a talent rich supply of defensive players, it's very hard, despite the premium on the position, to elevate these guys so high in this draft.

Nobody wants to find a solution for our QB issue than me. I think we are at DECON 2. But I wouldn't risk the #6 pick for any of this year's supply. So I think there is going to be great value in the second and third round at QB...

Lol  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 2/11/2019 12:35 pm : link
The 2018 QB class will go down as the year of the coach killers.
Coach Red nailed it.  
Red Dog : 2/11/2019 12:37 pm : link
.
RE: Coach Red nailed it.  
Giants38 : 2/11/2019 12:53 pm : link
In comment 14293299 Red Dog said:
Quote:
.


Someone said this earlier, maybe even in another thread, but you canít just wait for the perfect QB prospect to come along. You guys sound like you will only accept an Andrew Luck as a draftable QB. Even if we pass on a QB, you think the QBs next year will be perfect? Weíll just end up running this conversation back. Oh, Tua doesnít have the greatest arm and played with superior talent; Herbert plays in a spread offense; etc. Then everyone will say tank until 2021.
so lets just take one in 2019  
dep026 : 2/11/2019 12:55 pm : link
who may not be good just for fuck sakes and pass on better players...

Amirite?
RE: RE: Coach Red nailed it.  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 2/11/2019 1:05 pm : link
In comment 14293324 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14293299 Red Dog said:


Quote:


.



Someone said this earlier, maybe even in another thread, but you canít just wait for the perfect QB prospect to come along. You guys sound like you will only accept an Andrew Luck as a draftable QB. Even if we pass on a QB, you think the QBs next year will be perfect? Weíll just end up running this conversation back. Oh, Tua doesnít have the greatest arm and played with superior talent; Herbert plays in a spread offense; etc. Then everyone will say tank until 2021.

No arguments over Trevor Lawrence.
RE: so lets just take one in 2019  
bw in dc : 2/11/2019 1:09 pm : link
In comment 14293325 dep026 said:
Quote:
who may not be good just for fuck sakes and pass on better players...

Amirite?


I would take a QB in every draft. Obviously not in the first few rounds, but always later in the draft.

If you hit on one, what a great asset to have...
RE: so lets just take one in 2019  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14293325 dep026 said:
Quote:
who may not be good just for fuck sakes and pass on better players...

Amirite?


I don't know why BBI posters continue to take this angle. The thought is not that NYG would pass on the next Reggie White to draft the next Dave Brown. Its that our QB has been on his last legs for years now and there are 3 very good prospects. While none are on the Carson Wentz or Baker Mayfield level as far as prospects, they are in or in some cases above the Darnold, Allen, Rosen tier.
Isn't the opposite..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 1:48 pm : link
logic used here constantly??

I mean Gettleman can draft the Rookie of the Year and still get incessantly bashed here because he didn't take one of the "sure" QB's last year.

This year's QB's look equally as shaky, so drafting a QB simply for the sake of it does seem to be really stupid.

You set things back so much more if you commit to a high draft pick QB for the next several years if he's a bust. The teams that end up on the short stick of the 1st round QB struggle for years afterwards.
I'm pretty confident  
mrvax : 2/11/2019 1:56 pm : link
that the Giants have already begun the process of rating the QBs. They know full well that Eli is getting older and will have to be replaced.

It's not impossible that one of those QBs is available at #6, and they value the guy highly but not enough to trade the farm to move up.

Imagine if DG went out on a limb and picked Murray at #6.
RE: Isn't the opposite..  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14293402 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
logic used here constantly??

I mean Gettleman can draft the Rookie of the Year and still get incessantly bashed here because he didn't take one of the "sure" QB's last year.

This year's QB's look equally as shaky, so drafting a QB simply for the sake of it does seem to be really stupid.

You set things back so much more if you commit to a high draft pick QB for the next several years if he's a bust. The teams that end up on the short stick of the 1st round QB struggle for years afterwards.


I would consider Mayfield to be a great prospect.

I would put Darnold, Lock and Haskins all in the good prospect tier. Sort of like Jared Goff (despite where he was selected). I think all 3 have a high floor.

I would put Allen and Murray in the high risk, high reward category. Very unique athletes but not without concerns.

Still, to your comment, we can't avoid it forever. Despite a borderline HOF career with great contributions to two SBs and great duration, Eli has been a bottom 3rd QB for several years now. Its time to fix the most important problem.
I know we..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 2:01 pm : link
can't avoid replacing Eli. We just can't do it just for the sake of taking one in the 1st round.
If Haskins is really 10-15 ranked prospect  
Lambuth_Special : 2/11/2019 2:04 pm : link
Than taking him at six isn't much of a reach, considering the impact of the QB position.
we agree then  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 2:09 pm : link
at no point did I say "for the sake of it"; I said, these guys are just as good as anybody in 2018 except Baker and waiting for Tua in '20, Lawrence in '21 or Joe Schmo in '30 is a foolish approach
Pep..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 2:12 pm : link
we are in agreement. There's nothing in your original post that I tried to debate. You pretty much laid out the prospects and you takes on them very well.
So...  
Bill L : 2/11/2019 2:12 pm : link
for the sake of it.
RE: Pep..  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 2:16 pm : link
In comment 14293439 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
we are in agreement. There's nothing in your original post that I tried to debate. You pretty much laid out the prospects and you takes on them very well.


Fair enough, apologies for any "attitude" that may have come off as.
RE: You really..  
giantstock : 2/11/2019 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14293118 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
fucking suck at a lot of things, reading comprehension among them.

Just look at my opening response:



Quote:


Bullshit?? Exactly what has any of the young QB's shown that would say definitively that they will be good QB's?



See the word "great" in there? You see the word "good". Alright then.


You said this too-- you changed the narrative from "good" in the beginning to "great."

"What I am saying is based on last year, what did they show to conclusively say they will be great?"
Think DG wants to win now  
TMS : 2/11/2019 3:26 pm : link
and improve the Giants for the future. He will go BPA not draft for need.
RE: RE: Coach Red nailed it.  
Leg of Theismann : 2/11/2019 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14293324 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14293299 Red Dog said:


Quote:


.



Someone said this earlier, maybe even in another thread, but you canít just wait for the perfect QB prospect to come along. You guys sound like you will only accept an Andrew Luck as a draftable QB. Even if we pass on a QB, you think the QBs next year will be perfect? Weíll just end up running this conversation back. Oh, Tua doesnít have the greatest arm and played with superior talent; Herbert plays in a spread offense; etc. Then everyone will say tank until 2021.


You have to be completely dull to think that Tua, Fromm, and Herbert are not clearly better prospects than Haskins and Lock. Sure every QB is going to have his flaws but there's a reason why everyone is saying 2020 is a much stronger class than 2019, that isn't just a made-up thing.

Murray is the Wild Card in this class I think. He's the only one in 2019 class with the potential of being a superstar but he could very well be a bust or out of football in 2 years due his size and option to play another sport. I personally have 100% faith in him but there's no question he is a risk. Haskins and Lock are flat-out mediocre prospects.
.  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 5:38 pm : link
Herbert profiles a bit like Lock. He's got plus size and a major league arm. Some questions about his decision making.

Fromm is an Alex Smith type. Tough kid, can run when necessary. Not exactly a pretty thrower though.
RE: RE: Coach Red nailed it.  
Pep22 : 2/11/2019 5:53 pm : link
In comment 14293324 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14293299 Red Dog said:


Quote:


.



Someone said this earlier, maybe even in another thread, but you canít just wait for the perfect QB prospect to come along. You guys sound like you will only accept an Andrew Luck as a draftable QB. Even if we pass on a QB, you think the QBs next year will be perfect? Weíll just end up running this conversation back. Oh, Tua doesnít have the greatest arm and played with superior talent; Herbert plays in a spread offense; etc. Then everyone will say tank until 2021.


Basically, we can't be serious about turning the page from all this losing if we continue to roll out a bottom tier QB making top tier $ in a salary cap league.
RE: RE: RE: Coach Red nailed it.  
Leg of Theismann : 2/11/2019 8:19 pm : link
In comment 14293706 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14293324 Giants38 said:


Quote:


In comment 14293299 Red Dog said:


Quote:


.



Someone said this earlier, maybe even in another thread, but you canít just wait for the perfect QB prospect to come along. You guys sound like you will only accept an Andrew Luck as a draftable QB. Even if we pass on a QB, you think the QBs next year will be perfect? Weíll just end up running this conversation back. Oh, Tua doesnít have the greatest arm and played with superior talent; Herbert plays in a spread offense; etc. Then everyone will say tank until 2021.



Basically, we can't be serious about turning the page from all this losing if we continue to roll out a bottom tier QB making top tier $ in a salary cap league.


Exactly this. Eli's cap number is like $10M higher than Brady's. Currently he's not even half as good as Brady. On top of that the Pats are masterminds at finding the best "bang-for-your-buck" players and managing their salary cap. That right there sums up the entire reason why the Pats are champs and the Giants are chimps.
RE: RE: Based on last year..  
djm : 2/11/2019 11:15 pm : link
In comment 14293036 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14293016 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.

We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.



Bullshit.

IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.


Uh Iíll see your bullshit and raise you another bullshit. I love the Barkley pick, think Eli is ok and you can win or lose with him but I donít know nearly enough about darnold or rosen to form an opinion. Iím sure darnold will have A career, but what kind of career remains to be seen. Heís not a transcendent player Iíll tell you that right now. Never will be either.
RE: RE: RE: Based on last year..  
giantstock : 2/12/2019 11:20 pm : link
In comment 14293978 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14293036 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14293016 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.

We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.



Bullshit.

IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.



Uh Iíll see your bullshit and raise you another bullshit. I love the Barkley pick, think Eli is ok and you can win or lose with him but I donít know nearly enough about darnold or rosen to form an opinion. Iím sure darnold will have A career, but what kind of career remains to be seen. Heís not a transcendent player Iíll tell you that right now. Never will be either.


Who said Darnold will be near a transcendent player never mind "A transcedent player?"
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