I know many still subscribe to the notion that the 2019 class is an underwhelming QB group. Others want Eli Manning to play until he's 60. For those of us who think its necessary to identify the next QB asap while not settling for a guy merely that plays the position because of need, please see below.
I personally do not think the 2019 class is inferior to the 2018 or even 2020 class. I think there are three compelling prospects who project as starters with upside. Before I get there, I do want to say that I think there are 4 guys who strike me as decent backup types: Taylor Cornelius (who I like a bit more than others), Daniel Jones, Jarrett Stidham and Will Grier (admittedly, I don't like these guys as potential starters).
The 3 starter prospects:
Kyler Murray: Blazing speed, above average arm, highly competitive kid. The concern is obviously the size. That is valid. However, the following mitigate the concerns: 1) he is so quick that he doesn't really take hits 2) he gets out of bounds and has an easy baseball slide to avoid contact (see Russell Wilson for how that can be effective). The kid doesn't have Wilson's frame but he clearly is a strong guy who is diligent in the weight room.
Dwayne Haskins: Good size, tremendous accuracy. Arm talent is very good. Good enough athlete. Inexperienced, yes, but shows a lot of advanced skills/savvy.
Drew Lock: Prototypical size, arm talent that is a hair below Patrick Mahomes but in anybody's class after that. Basketball background that offers fluidity/coordination/balance not unlike Sam Darnold.
Other than Baker Mayfield, I don't see how the 2018 or 2020 guys rank above this class.
And since we dont have a good team or the assets to give up, we shouldnt worry about them and worry about building the team from the trenches.
with that said - if they like any of the 3 QB's enough in which their grade is somewhat close to the 6th pick-- u take him.
From your lips to God's ears because that means two very talented DL/Edge Rushers will have fallen to us.
From your mouth to God's ear. I salivate over the prospect of having 2 QB's go before we pick (and would be even more in ecstasy if somehow someone also jumped up to take Murray. At the least, one of the 4 top picks sliding down to us??? Whoo Hoo.
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think Haskins and Lock will be gone before six, and that DG correctly won't trade up to get either. That means no QB at #6. Jones will be gone by the second round, and I don't see DG taking Grier. My guess is another day three QB (Cornelius?) to compete with Lauletta, or possibly trading for Sloter.
From your lips to God's ears because that means two very talented DL/Edge Rushers will have fallen to us.
Same cliche, but I said it wrong.
We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.
And since we dont have a good team or the assets to give up, we shouldnt worry about them and worry about building the team from the trenches.
The Josh's (Allen/Rosen) didn't go 1, 2, 3, did they?
I suspect much of the pessimism about this class has to do with the Eli sentimentality factor.
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then they will go 1-2-3 in the draft. Since they are just as good (pure speculation) as guys who have been rated higher throughout their careers.
And since we dont have a good team or the assets to give up, we shouldnt worry about them and worry about building the team from the trenches.
The Josh's (Allen/Rosen) didn't go 1, 2, 3, did they?
I suspect much of the pessimism about this class has to do with the Eli sentimentality factor.
Or the players skill factor. Either/or.
Please no more day 3 QB’s.
TBD
with that said - if they like any of the 3 QB's enough in which their grade is somewhat close to the 6th pick-- u take him.
I think Darnold has some nice attributes: size, mobility, good not great arm, seems to prepare himself like a pro. I do think his decision making, whether at USC or NYJ, shows some concern.
Darnold - you should be excited. Despite his tendency to throw bad INTs, he made a shit ton of plays last year with absolutely nothing on the OL or skill players. He made a lot of improvised plays and had some really good games. Obviously needs to get better.
Allen - there's hope. Arm is huge. Athleticism is there. His throwing needs work. And he needs help too. But he didnt embarrass himself.
Rosen - Made some big time throws but was beat up all year. His team stunk. His OL was god awful. You're optimistic, but need to see more next year.
Jackson - you are excited yet nervous as hell. He makes plays that no one else in the NFL can make. But his throwing needs a ton of work. And the risk of injury and amount of hits he takes is terrifying.
Overall, each fan base should be excited with what they got.
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then they will go 1-2-3 in the draft. Since they are just as good (pure speculation) as guys who have been rated higher throughout their careers.
And since we dont have a good team or the assets to give up, we shouldnt worry about them and worry about building the team from the trenches.
The Josh's (Allen/Rosen) didn't go 1, 2, 3, did they?
I suspect much of the pessimism about this class has to do with the Eli sentimentality factor.
And you would be wrong.
TBD
He didnt fumble nearly as much. And rookie QBs throwing INTs isnt really that shocking is it? He threw only one more INT than Baker Mayfield last year.
We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.
Bullshit.
IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.
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how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.
We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.
Bullshit.
IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.
And vice versa
There's been near unanimous pessimism about this class from the football world - not just Giants fans. Some scouts are saying there isn't even a 1st round talent available.
What is the fuck does that have to do with sentiments about Eli? The whole football world loves eli that much??
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how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.
We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.
Bullshit.
IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.
People are buried in the fact we drafted a generational, HOF type players.
Damn us stupid posters!!!!!!
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how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.
We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.
Bullshit.
IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.
Bullshit?? Exactly what has any of the young QB's shown that would say definitively that they will be good QB's? You'd have the same questions if Darnold had the year he did on the Giants.
I'm not saying these QB's won't become good or great. What I am saying is based on last year, what did they show to conclusively say they will be great?
Nothing. And I have no fucking clue what that has to do with Barkley or Eli - but carry on with your errant crusade.
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I suspect much of the pessimism about this class has to do with the Eli sentimentality factor.
There's been near unanimous pessimism about this class from the football world - not just Giants fans. Some scouts are saying there isn't even a 1st round talent available.
What is the fuck does that have to do with sentiments about Eli? The whole football world loves eli that much??
It's not even the Eli or Barkley fans either. The incessant refrain at this time last year was that you had to eschew talent to take a QB at #2 because the 2019 class would have no QB's in it or, at the very least, no QB's of ability.
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I suspect much of the pessimism about this class has to do with the Eli sentimentality factor.
There's been near unanimous pessimism about this class from the football world - not just Giants fans. Some scouts are saying there isn't even a 1st round talent available.
What is the fuck does that have to do with sentiments about Eli? The whole football world loves eli that much??
The same “scouts” that said there were no franchise QBs in 2016 and what a shocker all 3 1st Round picks won there division and played a home playoff game.. Mahomes was the NFL MVP
The same scouts who laughed at the eagles and Rams when they traded to the top of the draft for Goff and Wentz.. well who is laughing now
Those must be NYG scouts lol
Sheep.
Athletic ability: Murray, Allen, Darnold, Mayfield, Lock, Rosen, Haskins
Arm: Allen, Lock, Haskins, Murray, Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen
Accuracy: Haskins, Mayfield, Rosen, Lock, Rosen, Darnold, Allen
Decision making: Mayfield, Haskins, Murray, Rosen, Lock, Rosen, Darnold
Improvisational skills: Murray, Allen, Mayfield, Darnold, Lock, Haskins, Rosen
Perception of leadership ability: Mayfield, Darnold, Murray, Haskins, Lock, Allen, Rosen
The same scouts who laughed at the eagles and Rams when they traded to the top of the draft for Goff and Wentz.. well who is laughing now
Those must be NYG scouts lol
Mahomes was drafted in 2017 and Paxton Lynch didn't win shit.
Not to mention, my point wasn't if the QB are going to be any good - it is to refute that this class isn't looked at as being poor. But from your posts, I don't think you grasp these simple discussion points.
Sheep.
Why would the thread been more compelling 2 months ago? I've probably seen 5 games MIN of each. Love it when assholes get disrespectful for no reason (on the internet, not in real life).
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think Haskins and Lock will be gone before six, and that DG correctly won't trade up to get either. That means no QB at #6. Jones will be gone by the second round, and I don't see DG taking Grier. My guess is another day three QB (Cornelius?) to compete with Lauletta, or possibly trading for Sloter.
Please no more day 3 QB’s.
I probably don't want another day three QB either, although Cornelius certainly has an NFL arm and great size. He also only played one year, so may not have reached his ceiling. My guess is he could be had in the fifth round.
The same “scouts” that said there were no franchise QBs in 2016 and what a shocker all 3 1st Round picks won there division and played a home playoff game.. Mahomes was the NFL MVP
The same scouts who laughed at the eagles and Rams when they traded to the top of the draft for Goff and Wentz.. well who is laughing now
Those must be NYG scouts lol
1. 2016 had Goff, Wentz, and Lynch in the first round. So lets try and get facts straight for once. Goff choked the last half of the year. Wentz was outplayed by his backup in the last year and a half. And Lynch is going to be cut. Good one though!
2. 2017 class is off to a good start. Trubisky and Watson sucked big donkey dick in the playoffs. And Watson is still a major injury risk. And Trubisky is carried by his defense. Yes, Mahomes was a great find. Good for KC.
3
TBD
I love when people say Mayfield,now... who was never considered the top guy....until word got out that the Browns wanted him.
Sounds like 3 possibly 4 decent guys this year.....but who knows how the Giants feel about anyone of them.....
If they want a QB, it will be one over the others....who knows if any other would even be considered
Tread lightly and choose wisely.
I really don't think we know anything more about their liklihood for future success than we did before the draft.
For every positive attribute, there were negative attributes too.
That's why it will likely be 2021 before we definitively know, even though patience in proclaiming them good or bad will not wait that long.
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but everything they said about his flaws in college, are exactly what he showed in year 1 at the pro level.
TBD
Not true. The criticism with Darnold is fumbles. Everyone looped that in as "turnovers' with is not correct --fumbles and ints at two completely different things. Darnold's ints in college weren't bad --he threw fewer ints per game than Rosen and fewer per game than Eli did in college. It was the fumbles inflated the turnover stats compared to other prospects. How did Darnold do with fumbles? He had 5 which was tied for 29th - 34th in the NFL, hardly a problem.
Darnold's turnover concerns had plenty to do with interceptions. The concerns were around his off platform throws and poor decision-making. When he runs to avoid pressure he was hit or miss in college. He would make a wow throw followed up by a terrible decision. The concern was that a lot of those throws would be picked off in the pros where you need better ball placement given the better DB play. Sure enough, this is what we saw from him as a rookie.
Before Darnold's fanboys bring out the pitchforks, I'm not saying he can't or won't improve in that department. I'm simply addressing the comment that interceptions weren't a concern for him coming out as a prospect.
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Odds are OP has watched 1 game tops of these 3 and is regurgitating the same shit draftniks are writing.
Sheep.
Why would the thread been more compelling 2 months ago? I've probably seen 5 games MIN of each. Love it when assholes get disrespectful for no reason (on the internet, not in real life).
Because two months ago the prevailing view here was this was a weak QB class. Nothing has reallly changed but here you are regurgitating the same shit being thrown around on a simple draft google search.
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The same “scouts” that said there were no franchise QBs in 2016 and what a shocker all 3 1st Round picks won there division and played a home playoff game.. Mahomes was the NFL MVP
The same scouts who laughed at the eagles and Rams when they traded to the top of the draft for Goff and Wentz.. well who is laughing now
Those must be NYG scouts lol
1. 2016 had Goff, Wentz, and Lynch in the first round. So lets try and get facts straight for once. Goff choked the last half of the year. Wentz was outplayed by his backup in the last year and a half. And Lynch is going to be cut. Good one though!
2. 2017 class is off to a good start. Trubisky and Watson sucked big donkey dick in the playoffs. And Watson is still a major injury risk. And Trubisky is carried by his defense. Yes, Mahomes was a great find. Good for KC.
3
I remember Eli’s 1st playoff game in Giants Stadium.. it was as bad as a QB can play... if Trubisky and Watson sucked donkey dick Eli was gangbanged by said Donkeys.. my point being 1 bad playoff game won’t kill a career and these guys are big reasons why there teams were in the playoffs
Trubisky had a damn good year let’s not discredit him because his team plays good defense. Without Trubisky the Bears lost to the NYG for crying out loud
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In comment 14293016 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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how anyone can say Darnold (or for that matter Allen and Rosen) are near locks for anything is asinine.
We basically know little more about their future success now than we did entering the draft.
Bullshit.
IMO some of you are just so buried in the Barkley pick and the Eli situation that you don't honestly assess the other QB's.
Bullshit?? Exactly what has any of the young QB's shown that would say definitively that they will be good QB's? You'd have the same questions if Darnold had the year he did on the Giants.
I'm not saying these QB's won't become good or great. What I am saying is based on last year, what did they show to conclusively say they will be great?
Nothing. And I have no fucking clue what that has to do with Barkley or Eli - but carry on with your errant crusade.
Read Deps post. I;m not going to get into a back and forth on a Giants site about Darnold. I don;t give a shit about the Jets. I can give you my opinions and observations but like oyu I'm a Giants fan and ntogoingto get into it. It's not like my opinion is out in left field.
But you can google go on jetswire and as the artcle states, theJets havefound their long-term QB. You can read "touchdownwire" in which they say looks like Darnold is a franchise QB. All the reasons in that article given are why if you were a Jet fan you'd be confident. I don;t want to get into a tit-for-tat on his positives on the linksvs what you see etc.
And i'd like to remind you I did NOT SAY he would be "GREAT."
I didnt even say "Very GOOD." I said he would be good.
This is the problem I continually have with you and your ilk. You don't want to hear criticism of the draft pick and ELi (you even posted that to me) so you think everything is some swat at him and when you don't agree with another you just exaggerate what the other is saying to justify you pov.
And imo you're in denial about ELi and Barkley. It's about them with you.
anyways-- WHERE DID i CALL DARNOLD "GREAT?"" Please provide the link where I said that?
C'mon stop this nonsense.
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In comment 14293062 GoBlue6599 said:
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The same “scouts” that said there were no franchise QBs in 2016 and what a shocker all 3 1st Round picks won there division and played a home playoff game.. Mahomes was the NFL MVP
The same scouts who laughed at the eagles and Rams when they traded to the top of the draft for Goff and Wentz.. well who is laughing now
Those must be NYG scouts lol
1. 2016 had Goff, Wentz, and Lynch in the first round. So lets try and get facts straight for once. Goff choked the last half of the year. Wentz was outplayed by his backup in the last year and a half. And Lynch is going to be cut. Good one though!
2. 2017 class is off to a good start. Trubisky and Watson sucked big donkey dick in the playoffs. And Watson is still a major injury risk. And Trubisky is carried by his defense. Yes, Mahomes was a great find. Good for KC.
3
I remember Eli’s 1st playoff game in Giants Stadium.. it was as bad as a QB can play... if Trubisky and Watson sucked donkey dick Eli was gangbanged by said Donkeys.. my point being 1 bad playoff game won’t kill a career and these guys are big reasons why there teams were in the playoffs
Trubisky had a damn good year let’s not discredit him because his team plays good defense. Without Trubisky the Bears lost to the NYG for crying out loud
You remember a game specficially when you were 4 years old? Sure you do...
This x 100. I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand such a simple concept. 2005 was a poor quarterback class but Aaron Rodgers emerged from it.
Just look at my opening response:
See the word "great" in there? You see the word "good". Alright then.
I love when people say Mayfield,now... who was never considered the top guy....until word got out that the Browns wanted him.
It's hilarious how many people act like they had Mayfield pegged all along and just didn't like the other QB's. Nearly all BBI discussions last year were about the entire class and people who didn't want a QB wanted none of them including Mayfield who until a couple of days before the draft was expected to be available at 2.