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New York Giants 2018 Positional Review: Offensive Line

Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/11/2019 9:46 am
New BBI article...
New York Giants 2018 Positional Review: Offensive Line - ( New Window )
Must have been a quick review  
The_Boss : 2/11/2019 9:56 am : link
“They suck. Next up, WR’s”
Great  
AcidTest : 2/11/2019 10:22 am : link
review. This says it all:

Quote:
Overall, for yet another season, the line remained the offense’s Achilles’ heel, with the free agent newcomers not playing as well as expected, and the team being forced to start two mid-season waiver-wire pickups.


The OL was an example of Murphy's Law: Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.
Looking ahead, Solder and Hernandez are solid starters. I think we  
Ira : 2/11/2019 10:31 am : link
need to see more of Halapio and Brown, but I think we should sign/draft a good center leaving those two to compete to start at right guard. The loser will back up three interior positions. As Eric said, Wheeler is best suited as a backup swing tackle, so a good right tackle needs to be signed or drafted.
Halapio  
Percy : 2/11/2019 10:47 am : link
His injuries were severe. Who knows what he'll be like when he tries to return?
I'm expecting the OL to be good in 2019....  
BillKo : 2/11/2019 10:50 am : link
.....simply because the Giants have leadership that recognizes the importance of it.

I expect a big leap in the second year.
I know that NFL OL performance has been weaker  
exiled : 2/11/2019 11:03 am : link
in general. But for years, Giants have assembled a bottom-tier unit even accounting for that. It’s unbelievable, given the investment they made in a pocket passer at QB.

Any improvements Gettleman makes will have a big impact on the off, no matter who’s playing QB.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/11/2019 12:05 pm : link
One addition... I failed to mention that John Jerry was cut in September.
Halapio  
Giants : 2/11/2019 12:07 pm : link
is garbage. Just another player who has bounced around the league never being able to stick.If he makes the team next season take that as a sign the OL is still a weak position
They need three......  
Doomster : 2/11/2019 12:11 pm : link
Halapio, crowned the best OLman on the Giants by DG, never looked the part....he is a practice squad journeyman for a reason.....coming back from an injury, who knows...

It was a mistake by DG, to trade Jones.....it was DG, not Reese who resigned Jones, to a larger contract....when it it looked like Halapio, was going to be the starting center, DG saw a chance for some cap space and also get a draft pick in return, too...but when Halapio went down, none of those replacement guys were better than Jones....

Brown just made the OL a little more functional....he was able to pick up stunts, something the previous guards could not do.....but he could be beat on a bullrush, and he just had too many penalties....he is a stop gap player, not a starter...and even though he has his limitations, if you can stick him between two good starters, he can be more than functional....problem is, we don't have such players....and....he is a free agent, and some GM will be desperate enough to overpay him, something we shouldn't do...

As for RT, Wheeler isn't even b/u material....has shown nothing in 2 seasons....no wonder he wasn't drafted....

I don't know if we can replace all 3.....Halapio is cheap for a reason.....I don't think we can afford what Brown will be paid by some overzealous GM....RT is a must......

But if the replacement(s) is/are draft choices there will be growing pains just like Hernandez last season......
RE: They need three......  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/11/2019 12:18 pm : link
In comment 14293261 Doomster said:
Quote:
Halapio, crowned the best OLman on the Giants by DG, never looked the part....he is a practice squad journeyman for a reason.....coming back from an injury, who knows...

It was a mistake by DG, to trade Jones.....it was DG, not Reese who resigned Jones, to a larger contract....when it it looked like Halapio, was going to be the starting center, DG saw a chance for some cap space and also get a draft pick in return, too...but when Halapio went down, none of those replacement guys were better than Jones....

Brown just made the OL a little more functional....he was able to pick up stunts, something the previous guards could not do.....but he could be beat on a bullrush, and he just had too many penalties....he is a stop gap player, not a starter...and even though he has his limitations, if you can stick him between two good starters, he can be more than functional....problem is, we don't have such players....and....he is a free agent, and some GM will be desperate enough to overpay him, something we shouldn't do...

As for RT, Wheeler isn't even b/u material....has shown nothing in 2 seasons....no wonder he wasn't drafted....

I don't know if we can replace all 3.....Halapio is cheap for a reason.....I don't think we can afford what Brown will be paid by some overzealous GM....RT is a must......

But if the replacement(s) is/are draft choices there will be growing pains just like Hernandez last season......


The Halapio comment by Gettleman was one of the few eye-openers from the January press conference.
What if Norwell and not Solder?  
KeoweeFan : 2/11/2019 12:20 pm : link
I have not seen a discussion of that scenario.

NYG obviously could not sign both. If Norwell was installed at either guard position, what would they have done at LT?

Flowers proved he was not capable and Wheeler was not much better at that position.

Would they have been tempted to NOT select Hernandez and instead go for a LT instead?
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 12:22 pm : link
Halapio was "crowned" the best OL guy by Gettleman??

Jesus.
RE: What if Norwell and not Solder?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/11/2019 12:25 pm : link
In comment 14293272 KeoweeFan said:
Quote:
I have not seen a discussion of that scenario.

NYG obviously could not sign both. If Norwell was installed at either guard position, what would they have done at LT?

Flowers proved he was not capable and Wheeler was not much better at that position.

Would they have been tempted to NOT select Hernandez and instead go for a LT instead?


Good questions.

All we do know is that not landing Norwell led to Solder and Omameh (the Jags let Omameh go because of Norwell, and he ironically landed back with them after he was cut by the Giants and Norwell got hurt).
Not Norwell..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/11/2019 12:31 pm : link
probably also led to Hernandez.
RE: ...Jerry  
Ivan15 : 2/11/2019 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14293244 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
One addition... I failed to mention that John Jerry was cut in September.


Not that it matters at this point, but I would have rather had Jerry’s pass blocking and weak run blocking than Omameh and Brown’s weak pass blocking and mediocre run blocking.
RE: Halapio  
Simms11 : 2/11/2019 12:39 pm : link
In comment 14293248 Giants said:
Quote:
is garbage. Just another player who has bounced around the league never being able to stick.If he makes the team next season take that as a sign the OL is still a weak position


I'm not sure what the Giants saw in Halapio, other then girth?! They apparently like something they saw, but I wouldn't bank on him returning to be a starter. They need to get better and stronger in the middle. A solid Center makes the whole line click and Halapio looked out of his element. Maybe he could come back and be a solid back-up?! I think the Giants need to seriously consider an upgrade there. Pulley is not the answer either, as he was just not good enough. Need to stop with all the band aids to this Oline.
Translation  
lugnut : 2/11/2019 12:47 pm : link
In Giantese, "versatile" = "sucks".

Seriously, I feel like every OL FA pickup and mid-season street signing has been called "versatile," with the benefit of having "experience" at multiple positions. I think we and the FO need to realize that being on 18 different teams in 4 seasons, including the East Youngstown Lunch Pail Car Demolition Demons, is the bigger story than versatility.

Gettleman has had exactly  
ryanmkeane : 2/11/2019 12:47 pm : link
1 offseason and 1 draft to overhaul the OL and it was much better this past year. I'm excited for the 2019 OL.
RE: Halapio  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/11/2019 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14293131 Percy said:
Quote:
His injuries were severe. Who knows what he'll be like when he tries to return?


Right on cue...
https://twitter.com/Jhalapio67/status/1095000665708003335 - ( New Window )
OL  
stretch234 : 2/11/2019 2:11 pm : link
Halapio got hurt in game 2. How are those 2 games making all this decision. Those first few games had severe issues with the 2 T's and the LG getting his feet wet

There are very few C who are a big as he is at 320. His injury however is a big issue. He broke a leg and ankle. There is zero guarantee he can play again

I have no issues bringing in a new RG, bring a bunch in and see who can play. Teams all over the NFL, outside the Giants, seem to find guys to play. Wheeler seeing few snaps benefits the whole OL. Draft a RT somewhere at rd 2 or 4. I don think they are signing a big FA RT

I would rather spend money on a competent C and draft the RT

Yeah I agree no more band aids  
Dave on the UWS : 2/11/2019 4:43 pm : link
just call the local 7-11 store. They’ve got 3 pro bowl OL hanging around the Slushy machine. Christ, you guys act like top notch OL are like leaves on a tree all over the place. Here’s a hint - there are none! DG hopefully can find one starter in FA the other two would have to be draft picks to develop. OL play in general is down because there just aren’t a lot of good lineman around.
Dave's got it right.  
Red Dog : 2/11/2019 5:57 pm : link
.
Think DG gets us a couple this year.  
TMS : 2/11/2019 6:45 pm : link
One in FA and the other in the second round of the draft. The FA has to be ready to go, but we can develop the draftee similar to Hernandez. We also have 8 more picks to strike gold. #6 will be blue chip defense unless we really believe one of these guys is for real.
RE: Yeah I agree no more band aids  
Simms11 : 2/11/2019 7:43 pm : link
In comment 14293646 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
just call the local 7-11 store. They’ve got 3 pro bowl OL hanging around the Slushy machine. Christ, you guys act like top notch OL are like leaves on a tree all over the place. Here’s a hint - there are none! DG hopefully can find one starter in FA the other two would have to be draft picks to develop. OL play in general is down because there just aren’t a lot of good lineman around.


Yea, maybe DG can go to the local 7-11 and find some decent linemen?! Good idea!
Wheeler is a total loss and must be replaced  
Torrag : 2/11/2019 9:04 pm : link
Halapio is really bad, Brown is 'serviceable' which sadly was a clear upgrade.

So the plan shold start at RT then move inside to upgrade at least one of those interior slots. We could go to war with that arrangement.
I guess I'm the only one that agrees with Shurmur  
mittenedman : 2/11/2019 11:04 pm : link
& Gettleman.

I thought he looked promising: he's big, smart and physical and he cares about his teammates and playing the game. He was playing between an inexperienced Hernandez making his 1st NFL starts and an incompetent Omemah and the Giants were actually running quite well up the gut anyways, but Shurmur didn't stick with it.

The time was just off for the OL. If they can manage a healthy
Solder/Hernandez/Halapio/J.Brown + add a good RT they have the makings of a solid line IMO - with Hernandez at a Pro Bowl level. These guy actually have some chemistry going with another full offseason. Keep sawing wood.
Ivan15  
Doomster : 2/12/2019 11:41 am : link
If you think Jerry was better than Brown, you better go back and watch Jerry again.....
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 11:57 am : link
That sure is a lot of conclusions to draw from the whole two games he played!!

Quote:
I thought he looked promising: he's big, smart and physical and he cares about his teammates and playing the game. He was playing between an inexperienced Hernandez making his 1st NFL starts and an incompetent Omemah and the Giants were actually running quite well up the gut anyways, but Shurmur didn't stick with it.


Shurmur went away from the run the first two games??
Brown was way better than Jerry  
Dnew15 : 2/12/2019 12:12 pm : link
and Brown certainly had his faults (as pointed out by a previous poster). The one thing he can do, which wasn't pointed out, is run block.
I don't know how much it's going to cost to resign him, but the line was better with him on it than without him.
Plus, you can't replace all three pieces in one year. Trying to keep some semblance of consistency on the OL has got to be a good thing.
If they can't bring him back - I think the Giants will keep Halapio at C, even though I don't get why they seem to like him so much.
Wheeler needs to be replaced. I don't know how they can run him out there again and expect any better. He's a gamer, and I like the kid, but he's not starter level RT talent in the NFL.
Bottom line - I think 2 of 3 weak chains get fixed this year.
Kind of like last year and even moreso  
Pan-handler : 2/12/2019 3:58 pm : link
Top of second round is going to have a bunch of high level plug and play starters on the OL.

If we go OL round 2 , very likely we get an instant/near instant quality starter. And with DGs nose (though he missed bad on Omameh) we should be able to nail that pick.

I would rather get 2 OL in FA but a minimum of one pretty highly rated one.

The bottom line: we need a UFA RT at a minimum  
SGMen : 2/12/2019 4:08 pm : link
We will likely draft at least two OL's as well, maybe 3.

All we can do is hope Hilapio has healed enough to play again; and, that he can actually upgrade the position from Pulley, Grecco. I mean, how can he be worse?

I'm not one to spend big for a lot of UFA's and eat up the cap. I do believe we should get at least one quality UFA that can start and be a big upgrade. I'm all for Wheeler being a "swing tackle" and such.
The thing with Halapio  
idiotsavant : 2/12/2019 4:21 pm : link
Not sure but came from Pat's practice squad prior to macadoo?

Roster centers being such slim pickings, or too small for macadoo ball, Halapio being a bit bigger and had played center, was just an idea that got floated here.

IMO center, and I mean a great one, could be the #1 free agency priority right now.
Important omission  
bc4life : 2/12/2019 6:45 pm : link
Solder had a pretty significant injury early in the season. Not saying it was only reason he struggled, but it definitely impacted his performance.
if they only do one thing (hopefully they'll do more)  
bc4life : 2/12/2019 6:52 pm : link
have to replace Wheeler at right tackle. And that will probably have to come through the draft.
RE: Important omission  
christian : 2/12/2019 7:23 pm : link
In comment 14294848 bc4life said:
Quote:
Solder had a pretty significant injury early in the season. Not saying it was only reason he struggled, but it definitely impacted his performance.


I've seen that alluded to a number of times on BBI -- was this clearly reported somewhere? I didn't catch it during or after the season.
Part of being worth the huge contract is being healthy  
Go Terps : 2/12/2019 7:37 pm : link
Exhibit A is Vernon, who's either missed games or played hampered by injury for a lot of his time here. Solder's contract in year one didn't pay off. The guy to watch in 2019 is Beckham, whose cap hit jumps to $21M and hasn't put up the numbers to justify that cost in 2 years.

The Giants need Solder and Beckham to be cornerstone players in 2019.
RE: RE: Important omission  
Diver_Down : 2/12/2019 8:00 pm : link
In comment 14294875 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14294848 bc4life said:


Quote:


Solder had a pretty significant injury early in the season. Not saying it was only reason he struggled, but it definitely impacted his performance.



I've seen that alluded to a number of times on BBI -- was this clearly reported somewhere? I didn't catch it during or after the season.


It was easily missed. Hal revealed that Solder had been dealing with an early injury in one of his weekly Q/A.
RE: Part of being worth the huge contract is being healthy  
christian : 2/12/2019 8:02 pm : link
In comment 14294882 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Exhibit A is Vernon, who's either missed games or played hampered by injury for a lot of his time here. Solder's contract in year one didn't pay off. The guy to watch in 2019 is Beckham, whose cap hit jumps to $21M and hasn't put up the numbers to justify that cost in 2 years.

The Giants need Solder and Beckham to be cornerstone players in 2019.


In Vernon's case it's hard to predict a guy is going to run into bad health immediately upon signing.

I was actually surprised the Giants were so all-in on a Beckham extension after the leg injury (whichy in my view clearly impacted his 2018 season).

Solder -- that one is hard for me, not because of health so much, but prior performance, age, and cost. I'm not holding out hope Solder will become a cornerstone player, when he's frankly never been that.
RE: RE: Part of being worth the huge contract is being healthy  
Go Terps : 2/12/2019 8:25 pm : link
In comment 14294903 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14294882 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Exhibit A is Vernon, who's either missed games or played hampered by injury for a lot of his time here. Solder's contract in year one didn't pay off. The guy to watch in 2019 is Beckham, whose cap hit jumps to $21M and hasn't put up the numbers to justify that cost in 2 years.

The Giants need Solder and Beckham to be cornerstone players in 2019.



In Vernon's case it's hard to predict a guy is going to run into bad health immediately upon signing.

I was actually surprised the Giants were so all-in on a Beckham extension after the leg injury (whichy in my view clearly impacted his 2018 season).

Solder -- that one is hard for me, not because of health so much, but prior performance, age, and cost. I'm not holding out hope Solder will become a cornerstone player, when he's frankly never been that.


Yeah the warnings were there with Solder from jump. When they signed him Mike Lombardi said he would need help against speed rushers, and he was right.

And with Vernon yeah it was hard to predict injury because the history wasn't there, but that's part of the risk in handing out a huge deal. That's why you've got to know that he's going to be an elite player when you give him the elite contract. Vernon's had injuries, but even when he wasn't hurt he was never an elite player.

Gettleman just doubled up on that mistake with Solder, and possibly Beckham.
Well,  
Doomster : 2/12/2019 8:27 pm : link
Manning, OBj, OV, Solder, Jenkins, Ogletree, Barkley , Ellison, and Martin.....those are your top 9 cap hits, and they represent 64% of our cap....

Of those 9, outside of Barkley, who lived up to their contract, last season?

That is why we are 5-11......
RE: Well,  
christian : 2/12/2019 8:39 pm : link
In comment 14294916 Doomster said:
Quote:
Manning, OBj, OV, Solder, Jenkins, Ogletree, Barkley , Ellison, and Martin.....those are your top 9 cap hits, and they represent 64% of our cap....

Of those 9, outside of Barkley, who lived up to their contract, last season?

That is why we are 5-11......


This coming year gets more extreme -- the top 6 salaries compromise of 57%.

And that doesn't include Barkley.
RE: Well,  
DonQuixote : 2/13/2019 8:10 am : link
In comment 14294916 Doomster said:
Quote:
Manning, OBj, OV, Solder, Jenkins, Ogletree, Barkley , Ellison, and Martin.....those are your top 9 cap hits, and they represent 64% of our cap....

Of those 9, outside of Barkley, who lived up to their contract, last season?

That is why we are 5-11......


Good Post.
Martin, ellison  
idiotsavant : 2/13/2019 8:58 am : link
Are replaceable and Ogletree might be improved upon.

It's not a super high bar to draft better. Wynn would be a better olb than Martin, low bar, TE and ILB and OLB for that matter are draft targets.
OV and Martin  
idiotsavant : 2/13/2019 9:01 am : link
Save big bucks right there. It's a mostly D draft for sure.
RE: RE: Well,  
rsjem1979 : 2/13/2019 9:59 am : link
In comment 14294933 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14294916 Doomster said:


Quote:


Manning, OBj, OV, Solder, Jenkins, Ogletree, Barkley , Ellison, and Martin.....those are your top 9 cap hits, and they represent 64% of our cap....

Of those 9, outside of Barkley, who lived up to their contract, last season?

That is why we are 5-11......



This coming year gets more extreme -- the top 6 salaries compromise of 57%.

And that doesn't include Barkley.


And people seem mystified that the Giants are deficient in so many areas. The guts of their roster is filled with cast offs and players that are cheap for a very good reason.
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