Overall, for yet another season, the line remained the offense’s Achilles’ heel, with the free agent newcomers not playing as well as expected, and the team being forced to start two mid-season waiver-wire pickups.
The OL was an example of Murphy's Law: Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.
Looking ahead, Solder and Hernandez are solid starters. I think we Â
need to see more of Halapio and Brown, but I think we should sign/draft a good center leaving those two to compete to start at right guard. The loser will back up three interior positions. As Eric said, Wheeler is best suited as a backup swing tackle, so a good right tackle needs to be signed or drafted.
in general. But for years, Giants have assembled a bottom-tier unit even accounting for that. It’s unbelievable, given the investment they made in a pocket passer at QB.
Any improvements Gettleman makes will have a big impact on the off, no matter who’s playing QB.
is garbage. Just another player who has bounced around the league never being able to stick.If he makes the team next season take that as a sign the OL is still a weak position
Halapio, crowned the best OLman on the Giants by DG, never looked the part....he is a practice squad journeyman for a reason.....coming back from an injury, who knows...
It was a mistake by DG, to trade Jones.....it was DG, not Reese who resigned Jones, to a larger contract....when it it looked like Halapio, was going to be the starting center, DG saw a chance for some cap space and also get a draft pick in return, too...but when Halapio went down, none of those replacement guys were better than Jones....
Brown just made the OL a little more functional....he was able to pick up stunts, something the previous guards could not do.....but he could be beat on a bullrush, and he just had too many penalties....he is a stop gap player, not a starter...and even though he has his limitations, if you can stick him between two good starters, he can be more than functional....problem is, we don't have such players....and....he is a free agent, and some GM will be desperate enough to overpay him, something we shouldn't do...
As for RT, Wheeler isn't even b/u material....has shown nothing in 2 seasons....no wonder he wasn't drafted....
I don't know if we can replace all 3.....Halapio is cheap for a reason.....I don't think we can afford what Brown will be paid by some overzealous GM....RT is a must......
But if the replacement(s) is/are draft choices there will be growing pains just like Hernandez last season......
Halapio, crowned the best OLman on the Giants by DG, never looked the part....he is a practice squad journeyman for a reason.....coming back from an injury, who knows...
It was a mistake by DG, to trade Jones.....it was DG, not Reese who resigned Jones, to a larger contract....when it it looked like Halapio, was going to be the starting center, DG saw a chance for some cap space and also get a draft pick in return, too...but when Halapio went down, none of those replacement guys were better than Jones....
Brown just made the OL a little more functional....he was able to pick up stunts, something the previous guards could not do.....but he could be beat on a bullrush, and he just had too many penalties....he is a stop gap player, not a starter...and even though he has his limitations, if you can stick him between two good starters, he can be more than functional....problem is, we don't have such players....and....he is a free agent, and some GM will be desperate enough to overpay him, something we shouldn't do...
As for RT, Wheeler isn't even b/u material....has shown nothing in 2 seasons....no wonder he wasn't drafted....
I don't know if we can replace all 3.....Halapio is cheap for a reason.....I don't think we can afford what Brown will be paid by some overzealous GM....RT is a must......
But if the replacement(s) is/are draft choices there will be growing pains just like Hernandez last season......
The Halapio comment by Gettleman was one of the few eye-openers from the January press conference.
NYG obviously could not sign both. If Norwell was installed at either guard position, what would they have done at LT?
Flowers proved he was not capable and Wheeler was not much better at that position.
Would they have been tempted to NOT select Hernandez and instead go for a LT instead?
Good questions.
All we do know is that not landing Norwell led to Solder and Omameh (the Jags let Omameh go because of Norwell, and he ironically landed back with them after he was cut by the Giants and Norwell got hurt).
One addition... I failed to mention that John Jerry was cut in September.
Not that it matters at this point, but I would have rather had Jerry’s pass blocking and weak run blocking than Omameh and Brown’s weak pass blocking and mediocre run blocking.
is garbage. Just another player who has bounced around the league never being able to stick.If he makes the team next season take that as a sign the OL is still a weak position
I'm not sure what the Giants saw in Halapio, other then girth?! They apparently like something they saw, but I wouldn't bank on him returning to be a starter. They need to get better and stronger in the middle. A solid Center makes the whole line click and Halapio looked out of his element. Maybe he could come back and be a solid back-up?! I think the Giants need to seriously consider an upgrade there. Pulley is not the answer either, as he was just not good enough. Need to stop with all the band aids to this Oline.
Seriously, I feel like every OL FA pickup and mid-season street signing has been called "versatile," with the benefit of having "experience" at multiple positions. I think we and the FO need to realize that being on 18 different teams in 4 seasons, including the East Youngstown Lunch Pail Car Demolition Demons, is the bigger story than versatility.
Halapio got hurt in game 2. How are those 2 games making all this decision. Those first few games had severe issues with the 2 T's and the LG getting his feet wet
There are very few C who are a big as he is at 320. His injury however is a big issue. He broke a leg and ankle. There is zero guarantee he can play again
I have no issues bringing in a new RG, bring a bunch in and see who can play. Teams all over the NFL, outside the Giants, seem to find guys to play. Wheeler seeing few snaps benefits the whole OL. Draft a RT somewhere at rd 2 or 4. I don think they are signing a big FA RT
I would rather spend money on a competent C and draft the RT
just call the local 7-11 store. They’ve got 3 pro bowl OL hanging around the Slushy machine. Christ, you guys act like top notch OL are like leaves on a tree all over the place. Here’s a hint - there are none! DG hopefully can find one starter in FA the other two would have to be draft picks to develop. OL play in general is down because there just aren’t a lot of good lineman around.
One in FA and the other in the second round of the draft. The FA has to be ready to go, but we can develop the draftee similar to Hernandez. We also have 8 more picks to strike gold. #6 will be blue chip defense unless we really believe one of these guys is for real.
just call the local 7-11 store. They’ve got 3 pro bowl OL hanging around the Slushy machine. Christ, you guys act like top notch OL are like leaves on a tree all over the place. Here’s a hint - there are none! DG hopefully can find one starter in FA the other two would have to be draft picks to develop. OL play in general is down because there just aren’t a lot of good lineman around.
Yea, maybe DG can go to the local 7-11 and find some decent linemen?! Good idea!
I thought he looked promising: he's big, smart and physical and he cares about his teammates and playing the game. He was playing between an inexperienced Hernandez making his 1st NFL starts and an incompetent Omemah and the Giants were actually running quite well up the gut anyways, but Shurmur didn't stick with it.
The time was just off for the OL. If they can manage a healthy
Solder/Hernandez/Halapio/J.Brown + add a good RT they have the makings of a solid line IMO - with Hernandez at a Pro Bowl level. These guy actually have some chemistry going with another full offseason. Keep sawing wood.
That sure is a lot of conclusions to draw from the whole two games he played!!
Quote:
I thought he looked promising: he's big, smart and physical and he cares about his teammates and playing the game. He was playing between an inexperienced Hernandez making his 1st NFL starts and an incompetent Omemah and the Giants were actually running quite well up the gut anyways, but Shurmur didn't stick with it.
Shurmur went away from the run the first two games??
and Brown certainly had his faults (as pointed out by a previous poster). The one thing he can do, which wasn't pointed out, is run block.
I don't know how much it's going to cost to resign him, but the line was better with him on it than without him.
Plus, you can't replace all three pieces in one year. Trying to keep some semblance of consistency on the OL has got to be a good thing.
If they can't bring him back - I think the Giants will keep Halapio at C, even though I don't get why they seem to like him so much.
Wheeler needs to be replaced. I don't know how they can run him out there again and expect any better. He's a gamer, and I like the kid, but he's not starter level RT talent in the NFL.
Bottom line - I think 2 of 3 weak chains get fixed this year.
Top of second round is going to have a bunch of high level plug and play starters on the OL.
If we go OL round 2 , very likely we get an instant/near instant quality starter. And with DGs nose (though he missed bad on Omameh) we should be able to nail that pick.
I would rather get 2 OL in FA but a minimum of one pretty highly rated one.
We will likely draft at least two OL's as well, maybe 3.
All we can do is hope Hilapio has healed enough to play again; and, that he can actually upgrade the position from Pulley, Grecco. I mean, how can he be worse?
I'm not one to spend big for a lot of UFA's and eat up the cap. I do believe we should get at least one quality UFA that can start and be a big upgrade. I'm all for Wheeler being a "swing tackle" and such.
Not sure but came from Pat's practice squad prior to macadoo?
Roster centers being such slim pickings, or too small for macadoo ball, Halapio being a bit bigger and had played center, was just an idea that got floated here.
IMO center, and I mean a great one, could be the #1 free agency priority right now.
Exhibit A is Vernon, who's either missed games or played hampered by injury for a lot of his time here. Solder's contract in year one didn't pay off. The guy to watch in 2019 is Beckham, whose cap hit jumps to $21M and hasn't put up the numbers to justify that cost in 2 years.
The Giants need Solder and Beckham to be cornerstone players in 2019.
Exhibit A is Vernon, who's either missed games or played hampered by injury for a lot of his time here. Solder's contract in year one didn't pay off. The guy to watch in 2019 is Beckham, whose cap hit jumps to $21M and hasn't put up the numbers to justify that cost in 2 years.
The Giants need Solder and Beckham to be cornerstone players in 2019.
In Vernon's case it's hard to predict a guy is going to run into bad health immediately upon signing.
I was actually surprised the Giants were so all-in on a Beckham extension after the leg injury (whichy in my view clearly impacted his 2018 season).
Solder -- that one is hard for me, not because of health so much, but prior performance, age, and cost. I'm not holding out hope Solder will become a cornerstone player, when he's frankly never been that.
RE: RE: Part of being worth the huge contract is being healthy Â
Exhibit A is Vernon, who's either missed games or played hampered by injury for a lot of his time here. Solder's contract in year one didn't pay off. The guy to watch in 2019 is Beckham, whose cap hit jumps to $21M and hasn't put up the numbers to justify that cost in 2 years.
The Giants need Solder and Beckham to be cornerstone players in 2019.
In Vernon's case it's hard to predict a guy is going to run into bad health immediately upon signing.
I was actually surprised the Giants were so all-in on a Beckham extension after the leg injury (whichy in my view clearly impacted his 2018 season).
Solder -- that one is hard for me, not because of health so much, but prior performance, age, and cost. I'm not holding out hope Solder will become a cornerstone player, when he's frankly never been that.
Yeah the warnings were there with Solder from jump. When they signed him Mike Lombardi said he would need help against speed rushers, and he was right.
And with Vernon yeah it was hard to predict injury because the history wasn't there, but that's part of the risk in handing out a huge deal. That's why you've got to know that he's going to be an elite player when you give him the elite contract. Vernon's had injuries, but even when he wasn't hurt he was never an elite player.
Gettleman just doubled up on that mistake with Solder, and possibly Beckham.
Manning, OBj, OV, Solder, Jenkins, Ogletree, Barkley , Ellison, and Martin.....those are your top 9 cap hits, and they represent 64% of our cap....
Of those 9, outside of Barkley, who lived up to their contract, last season?
That is why we are 5-11......
This coming year gets more extreme -- the top 6 salaries compromise of 57%.
And that doesn't include Barkley.
And people seem mystified that the Giants are deficient in so many areas. The guts of their roster is filled with cast offs and players that are cheap for a very good reason.
The OL was an example of Murphy's Law: Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.
I expect a big leap in the second year.
Any improvements Gettleman makes will have a big impact on the off, no matter who’s playing QB.
It was a mistake by DG, to trade Jones.....it was DG, not Reese who resigned Jones, to a larger contract....when it it looked like Halapio, was going to be the starting center, DG saw a chance for some cap space and also get a draft pick in return, too...but when Halapio went down, none of those replacement guys were better than Jones....
Brown just made the OL a little more functional....he was able to pick up stunts, something the previous guards could not do.....but he could be beat on a bullrush, and he just had too many penalties....he is a stop gap player, not a starter...and even though he has his limitations, if you can stick him between two good starters, he can be more than functional....problem is, we don't have such players....and....he is a free agent, and some GM will be desperate enough to overpay him, something we shouldn't do...
As for RT, Wheeler isn't even b/u material....has shown nothing in 2 seasons....no wonder he wasn't drafted....
I don't know if we can replace all 3.....Halapio is cheap for a reason.....I don't think we can afford what Brown will be paid by some overzealous GM....RT is a must......
But if the replacement(s) is/are draft choices there will be growing pains just like Hernandez last season......
It was a mistake by DG, to trade Jones.....it was DG, not Reese who resigned Jones, to a larger contract....when it it looked like Halapio, was going to be the starting center, DG saw a chance for some cap space and also get a draft pick in return, too...but when Halapio went down, none of those replacement guys were better than Jones....
Brown just made the OL a little more functional....he was able to pick up stunts, something the previous guards could not do.....but he could be beat on a bullrush, and he just had too many penalties....he is a stop gap player, not a starter...and even though he has his limitations, if you can stick him between two good starters, he can be more than functional....problem is, we don't have such players....and....he is a free agent, and some GM will be desperate enough to overpay him, something we shouldn't do...
As for RT, Wheeler isn't even b/u material....has shown nothing in 2 seasons....no wonder he wasn't drafted....
I don't know if we can replace all 3.....Halapio is cheap for a reason.....I don't think we can afford what Brown will be paid by some overzealous GM....RT is a must......
But if the replacement(s) is/are draft choices there will be growing pains just like Hernandez last season......
The Halapio comment by Gettleman was one of the few eye-openers from the January press conference.
NYG obviously could not sign both. If Norwell was installed at either guard position, what would they have done at LT?
Flowers proved he was not capable and Wheeler was not much better at that position.
Would they have been tempted to NOT select Hernandez and instead go for a LT instead?
Jesus.
NYG obviously could not sign both. If Norwell was installed at either guard position, what would they have done at LT?
Flowers proved he was not capable and Wheeler was not much better at that position.
Would they have been tempted to NOT select Hernandez and instead go for a LT instead?
Good questions.
All we do know is that not landing Norwell led to Solder and Omameh (the Jags let Omameh go because of Norwell, and he ironically landed back with them after he was cut by the Giants and Norwell got hurt).
Not that it matters at this point, but I would have rather had Jerry’s pass blocking and weak run blocking than Omameh and Brown’s weak pass blocking and mediocre run blocking.
I'm not sure what the Giants saw in Halapio, other then girth?! They apparently like something they saw, but I wouldn't bank on him returning to be a starter. They need to get better and stronger in the middle. A solid Center makes the whole line click and Halapio looked out of his element. Maybe he could come back and be a solid back-up?! I think the Giants need to seriously consider an upgrade there. Pulley is not the answer either, as he was just not good enough. Need to stop with all the band aids to this Oline.
Seriously, I feel like every OL FA pickup and mid-season street signing has been called "versatile," with the benefit of having "experience" at multiple positions. I think we and the FO need to realize that being on 18 different teams in 4 seasons, including the East Youngstown Lunch Pail Car Demolition Demons, is the bigger story than versatility.
Right on cue...
https://twitter.com/Jhalapio67/status/1095000665708003335 - ( New Window )
There are very few C who are a big as he is at 320. His injury however is a big issue. He broke a leg and ankle. There is zero guarantee he can play again
I have no issues bringing in a new RG, bring a bunch in and see who can play. Teams all over the NFL, outside the Giants, seem to find guys to play. Wheeler seeing few snaps benefits the whole OL. Draft a RT somewhere at rd 2 or 4. I don think they are signing a big FA RT
I would rather spend money on a competent C and draft the RT
Yea, maybe DG can go to the local 7-11 and find some decent linemen?! Good idea!
So the plan shold start at RT then move inside to upgrade at least one of those interior slots. We could go to war with that arrangement.
I thought he looked promising: he's big, smart and physical and he cares about his teammates and playing the game. He was playing between an inexperienced Hernandez making his 1st NFL starts and an incompetent Omemah and the Giants were actually running quite well up the gut anyways, but Shurmur didn't stick with it.
The time was just off for the OL. If they can manage a healthy
Solder/Hernandez/Halapio/J.Brown + add a good RT they have the makings of a solid line IMO - with Hernandez at a Pro Bowl level. These guy actually have some chemistry going with another full offseason. Keep sawing wood.
Shurmur went away from the run the first two games??
I don't know how much it's going to cost to resign him, but the line was better with him on it than without him.
Plus, you can't replace all three pieces in one year. Trying to keep some semblance of consistency on the OL has got to be a good thing.
If they can't bring him back - I think the Giants will keep Halapio at C, even though I don't get why they seem to like him so much.
Wheeler needs to be replaced. I don't know how they can run him out there again and expect any better. He's a gamer, and I like the kid, but he's not starter level RT talent in the NFL.
Bottom line - I think 2 of 3 weak chains get fixed this year.
If we go OL round 2 , very likely we get an instant/near instant quality starter. And with DGs nose (though he missed bad on Omameh) we should be able to nail that pick.
I would rather get 2 OL in FA but a minimum of one pretty highly rated one.
All we can do is hope Hilapio has healed enough to play again; and, that he can actually upgrade the position from Pulley, Grecco. I mean, how can he be worse?
I'm not one to spend big for a lot of UFA's and eat up the cap. I do believe we should get at least one quality UFA that can start and be a big upgrade. I'm all for Wheeler being a "swing tackle" and such.
Roster centers being such slim pickings, or too small for macadoo ball, Halapio being a bit bigger and had played center, was just an idea that got floated here.
IMO center, and I mean a great one, could be the #1 free agency priority right now.
I've seen that alluded to a number of times on BBI -- was this clearly reported somewhere? I didn't catch it during or after the season.
The Giants need Solder and Beckham to be cornerstone players in 2019.
Quote:
Solder had a pretty significant injury early in the season. Not saying it was only reason he struggled, but it definitely impacted his performance.
I've seen that alluded to a number of times on BBI -- was this clearly reported somewhere? I didn't catch it during or after the season.
It was easily missed. Hal revealed that Solder had been dealing with an early injury in one of his weekly Q/A.
The Giants need Solder and Beckham to be cornerstone players in 2019.
In Vernon's case it's hard to predict a guy is going to run into bad health immediately upon signing.
I was actually surprised the Giants were so all-in on a Beckham extension after the leg injury (whichy in my view clearly impacted his 2018 season).
Solder -- that one is hard for me, not because of health so much, but prior performance, age, and cost. I'm not holding out hope Solder will become a cornerstone player, when he's frankly never been that.
Quote:
Exhibit A is Vernon, who's either missed games or played hampered by injury for a lot of his time here. Solder's contract in year one didn't pay off. The guy to watch in 2019 is Beckham, whose cap hit jumps to $21M and hasn't put up the numbers to justify that cost in 2 years.
The Giants need Solder and Beckham to be cornerstone players in 2019.
In Vernon's case it's hard to predict a guy is going to run into bad health immediately upon signing.
I was actually surprised the Giants were so all-in on a Beckham extension after the leg injury (whichy in my view clearly impacted his 2018 season).
Solder -- that one is hard for me, not because of health so much, but prior performance, age, and cost. I'm not holding out hope Solder will become a cornerstone player, when he's frankly never been that.
Yeah the warnings were there with Solder from jump. When they signed him Mike Lombardi said he would need help against speed rushers, and he was right.
And with Vernon yeah it was hard to predict injury because the history wasn't there, but that's part of the risk in handing out a huge deal. That's why you've got to know that he's going to be an elite player when you give him the elite contract. Vernon's had injuries, but even when he wasn't hurt he was never an elite player.
Gettleman just doubled up on that mistake with Solder, and possibly Beckham.
Of those 9, outside of Barkley, who lived up to their contract, last season?
That is why we are 5-11......
Of those 9, outside of Barkley, who lived up to their contract, last season?
That is why we are 5-11......
This coming year gets more extreme -- the top 6 salaries compromise of 57%.
And that doesn't include Barkley.
Of those 9, outside of Barkley, who lived up to their contract, last season?
That is why we are 5-11......
Good Post.
It's not a super high bar to draft better. Wynn would be a better olb than Martin, low bar, TE and ILB and OLB for that matter are draft targets.
Quote:
Manning, OBj, OV, Solder, Jenkins, Ogletree, Barkley , Ellison, and Martin.....those are your top 9 cap hits, and they represent 64% of our cap....
Of those 9, outside of Barkley, who lived up to their contract, last season?
That is why we are 5-11......
This coming year gets more extreme -- the top 6 salaries compromise of 57%.
And that doesn't include Barkley.
And people seem mystified that the Giants are deficient in so many areas. The guts of their roster is filled with cast offs and players that are cheap for a very good reason.