Unlike other Mike Tyson fights, this one was not very hyped at all; I think it wasn't even on PPV and was just on HBO or Showtime. I don't know if you young'uns today realize what a big effing deal this was, as boxing is not nearly as big today as it once was. One of the biggest upsets in sports history.
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Yeah Douglas was a good fighter no question. There were big time questions about his commitment but the guy had skills. It was the right fight at the right time. Douglas fought the fight of his life and Tyson was the one whose commitment and skills deteriorated. After Cus died and Tyson jettisoned Rooney as his trainer, he was done... completely abandoning the style that made him what he was. Douglas absolutely deserved to win that fight, it's just a shame that he flamed out afterwards.
I remember watching that in the apartments at SUNY Delhi... it was mayhem in the complex after that fight ended, people walking around in disbelief... lol.
My fraternity brother was pretty plugged into the boxing scene. His Dad was a lawyer who drew up a lot of contracts for different sporting events. He told me a couple weeks before the fight that Tyson was asked to keep some of these fights going longer, especially for the Japanese audience.
I believe the way it was told to him was that he should use the time to work on his boxing skills that he'll need later in his career, when his pure power would fade. I didn't really think too much more about it until fight night.
We were watching it on the frat house TV and my brother says again - Tyson's not going for the early KO, so watch to see if the other guy gets lucky early. After the fight, I felt like the kid that was in the know!!
I got "I told you so!" for weeks after that.
Many people consider him a propped up champ that was a one punch knockout artist, but that is what he became after D'amata died, and could not be further from what he actually was, in truth, at his peak. A lot of people don't realize how skilled Tyson was on his way up through the ranks, also what a great chin he had. D'Amato and Rooney (and Teddy Atlas) crafted a style for Tyson that really made him unbeatable. He had so much speed and power, with a sharp punch. That style was perfectly married to his physical attributes and was designed to take out taller fighters, with peek-a-boo defense and 3 and 4 shot combinations to the body and setting up the knockout blow up top. His body shots sounded like cannons going off. You literally got the feeling somebody was going to die in the ring with him. It really is sad what happened to him after Cus died. He is an all time great but he really could have been considered in the discussion with Ali as greatest of all time if Cus had lived.
I also agree could have become of the greatest heavyweights of all time except for his self destructive behavior. He fought one of the Spinks; dont remember if it was Leon or Michael but Tyson knocked him out in 1 round and it looked to me that Spinks was relieved that he lost so quickly because he feared for his life fighting Tyson.
Are you sure we're not the same person? I have more or less the same story. I came home from school the previous October and suddenly we had cable TV. I was also 9 years old. I had a VHS copy of Mike Tyson's Greatest Hits, and I just wore that tape out over the next few months. When I heard Tyson was fighting, I was so psyched to finally see him live.
Then the fight started and all I remember was having my face buried in the couch cushions, mortified at what I was seeing.
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I was so excited to finally see him live on TV. We had just gotten HBO at my house. I was only 9 so I didn't know much about premium TV, and I asked my dad if I could have a Pepsi and he said sure, he would get it at the commercial break. My parents and older siblings laughed but I didn't know there were no commercial breaks. Either way, I was devastated seeing him lose and on top of that never got my Pepsi.
Are you sure we're not the same person? I have more or less the same story. I came home from school the previous October and suddenly we had cable TV. I was also 9 years old. I had a VHS copy of Mike Tyson's Greatest Hits, and I just wore that tape out over the next few months. When I heard Tyson was fighting, I was so psyched to finally see him live.
Then the fight started and all I remember was having my face buried in the couch cushions, mortified at what I was seeing.
Well I’m sure there is a pretty strong demographic of us represented on this site. There must have been a promotion running on hbo at that time that got our parents to subscribe ha ha.
I believe Tysons knocked Douglas down in round 8 and the count did seem long. He did almost beat Douglas.
I also agree could have become of the greatest heavyweights of all time except for his self destructive behavior. He fought one of the Spinks; dont remember if it was Leon or Michael but Tyson knocked him out in 1 round and it looked to me that Spinks was relieved that he lost so quickly because he feared for his life fighting Tyson.
Tyson was a good, not great fighter. Early in his career, with Cus, Rooney and Atlas and a strong management team he was a rising star with punching power... very intimidating. He was must see TV.
Fell apart when he aligned with Don King. You guys do realize that with the exception of the Michael Spinks fight... Tyson never won any of the blockbuster fights in his career. Labeling Tyson as one of the greatest fighters of all time is ridiculous. Styles make fights as we all know... Tyson had trouble with taller fighters... his Blockbuster fights were Holyfield 1 & 2, Lennox Lewis and Buster Douglas... Tyson was 0-4, losing all by knockout or DQ.
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I agree with you 100%. Tyson started as a brawler but D'Amato was teaching him how to box. You learned how to cut the ring which, with his power, made him unbelievably good. I don't remember the exact circumstances that led to his getting rid of his managers. I remember D'Amato passed away and Tyson eventually got rid of Rooney. And, Tyson took on managers who were clearly not at D'Amatos level or couldn't communicate with Tyson that way D'Amato could given their relationship.
I also agree could have become of the greatest heavyweights of all time except for his self destructive behavior. He fought one of the Spinks; dont remember if it was Leon or Michael but Tyson knocked him out in 1 round and it looked to me that Spinks was relieved that he lost so quickly because he feared for his life fighting Tyson.
Tyson was a good, not great fighter. Early in his career, with Cus, Rooney and Atlas and a strong management team he was a rising star with punching power... very intimidating. He was must see TV.
Fell apart when he aligned with Don King. You guys do realize that with the exception of the Michael Spinks fight... Tyson never won any of the blockbuster fights in his career. Labeling Tyson as one of the greatest fighters of all time is ridiculous. Styles make fights as we all know... Tyson had trouble with taller fighters... his Blockbuster fights were Holyfield 1 & 2, Lennox Lewis and Buster Douglas... Tyson was 0-4, losing all by knockout or DQ.
OK, I knew the debate would come, as it always does. You didn't read my post, or you chose to ignore what I wrote. I actually am a big (or was) a big student of the sweet science lol. Also I watched Tyson fight in the Empire State games while wrestling there myself. He knocked someone out of the ring. I turned on the TV coincidentally for his 2nd or 3rd pro fight and consequently I followed him like a Hawk after that. His style was designed and he was tailor made to defeat taller fighters. That's not according to me, those are the words of Cus D'Amato. He did not utilize that same style after D'Amato died and he booted Rooney. THAT is when he changed from an actual skilled fighter with insane punching power to a puncher looking for a one punch knockout. It's also well documented how he self destructed before the Douglas fight.... see Robin Givens/Don King/Etc.
There are accounts of celebrities watching him out partying until the wee hours of the morning before the Douglas fight and not training seriously for the fight. And he ran into the perfect storm (and still almost knocked him out).
There is no way Douglas wins that fight against the Tyson that fought Berbick/Spinks/Holmes. Two different fighters. And he never regained the form that got him the titles.
On the count of 11, but who’s really counting anyway.
On the count of 11, but who’s really counting anyway.
Agreed and as I said Douglas deserved to win that fight, it was the right fight at the right time and he fought the fight of his life.
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In comment 14293335 Samiam said:
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I agree with you 100%. Tyson started as a brawler but D'Amato was teaching him how to box. You learned how to cut the ring which, with his power, made him unbelievably good. I don't remember the exact circumstances that led to his getting rid of his managers. I remember D'Amato passed away and Tyson eventually got rid of Rooney. And, Tyson took on managers who were clearly not at D'Amatos level or couldn't communicate with Tyson that way D'Amato could given their relationship.
I also agree could have become of the greatest heavyweights of all time except for his self destructive behavior. He fought one of the Spinks; dont remember if it was Leon or Michael but Tyson knocked him out in 1 round and it looked to me that Spinks was relieved that he lost so quickly because he feared for his life fighting Tyson.
Tyson was a good, not great fighter. Early in his career, with Cus, Rooney and Atlas and a strong management team he was a rising star with punching power... very intimidating. He was must see TV.
Fell apart when he aligned with Don King. You guys do realize that with the exception of the Michael Spinks fight... Tyson never won any of the blockbuster fights in his career. Labeling Tyson as one of the greatest fighters of all time is ridiculous. Styles make fights as we all know... Tyson had trouble with taller fighters... his Blockbuster fights were Holyfield 1 & 2, Lennox Lewis and Buster Douglas... Tyson was 0-4, losing all by knockout or DQ.
OK, I knew the debate would come, as it always does. You didn't read my post, or you chose to ignore what I wrote. I actually am a big (or was) a big student of the sweet science lol. Also I watched Tyson fight in the Empire State games while wrestling there myself. He knocked someone out of the ring. I turned on the TV coincidentally for his 2nd or 3rd pro fight and consequently I followed him like a Hawk after that. His style was designed and he was tailor made to defeat taller fighters. That's not according to me, those are the words of Cus D'Amato. He did not utilize that same style after D'Amato died and he booted Rooney. THAT is when he changed from an actual skilled fighter with insane punching power to a puncher looking for a one punch knockout. It's also well documented how he self destructed before the Douglas fight.... see Robin Givens/Don King/Etc.
There are accounts of celebrities watching him out partying until the wee hours of the morning before the Douglas fight and not training seriously for the fight. And he ran into the perfect storm (and still almost knocked him out).
There is no way Douglas wins that fight against the Tyson that fought Berbick/Spinks/Holmes. Two different fighters. And he never regained the form that got him the titles.
Johny5, I did read your post, and for the most part don't disagree with anything you wrote. I realize Douglas was an unbelievable upset and that Tyson was falling apart at the time. Still, Tyson's history is what it is. You cannot make the leap that things would have been different if this or if that... If's don't matter.
Johny5, I did read your post, and for the most part don't disagree with anything you wrote. I realize Douglas was an unbelievable upset and that Tyson was falling apart at the time. Still, Tyson's history is what it is. You cannot make the leap that things would have been different if this or if that... If's don't matter.
Yep that is true. Woulda coulda shoulda... didn't... lol
Anyway it is just my opinion. I did see him live as well as Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield. If you ask people that saw him live coming up, it was just... different than watching any other fighter. There was an electricity that was indescribable and honestly I have never in my life heard a body punch that sounded the way that Tyson's did. It was literally the sound of a cannon or gigantic firework... lol. Those combinations and defense are what made him what he was. The body shot combos leading to the uppercuts were the ax that chopped down the taller tree so to speak. Those were gone once Cus died and he booted Rooney. It's really disappointing that he self destructed (well with help from King etc.) the way he did. So much additional promise and potential thrown away.
This was a shocker for sure. One of the great sports moments.
This was a shocker for sure. One of the great sports moments.
No way he wins that fight against a prime Tyson. Absolutely no way. A prime Tyson completely destroys Buster Douglas. His loss to Tony Tucker is what gave Tucker the fight against Tyson.
But again, that was Douglas' night. He beat Tyson every round and no one can ever take that away from him.
What was really cool, is after the 30 for 30 they showed the fight.
On the count of 11, but who’s really counting anyway.
Right. I remember the post-match press conference and King and Tyson showing that replay and doing the actual count.
God, King was such a despicable phony...
Here is why I say that:
All the great champions endured, won past their peaks, won against styles that were tough for them, won for years and most of all, won from within, were mentally tough, were losing early and came back, lost and won the rematch, met all kinds of vultures and grime yet resisted the temptations from affecting them in the ring for prolonged periods of time.
The very best champions won against other great fighters and great champions ...but not Tyson.
Sorry, mental toughness is a characteristic of great champions. i honestly thought Tyson often and eventually became a nicer human than most great champions...and after all, thats what really counts.
Tyson psychologically resembles Liston. Feared and a great puncher, but not in the upper echelons. freaked when he could not win as a bully.
Also, its great to see the great Johnny5. Hope you are well my friend
Here is why I say that:
All the great champions endured, won past their peaks, won against styles that were tough for them, won for years and most of all, won from within, were mentally tough, were losing early and came back, lost and won the rematch, met all kinds of vultures and grime yet resisted the temptations from affecting them in the ring for prolonged periods of time.
The very best champions won against other great fighters and great champions ...but not Tyson.
Sorry, mental toughness is a characteristic of great champions. i honestly thought Tyson often and eventually became a nicer human than most great champions...and after all, thats what really counts.
Tyson psychologically resembles Liston. Feared and a great puncher, but not in the upper echelons. freaked when he could not win as a bully.
Also, its great to see the great Johnny5. Hope you are well my friend
You as well Bill!
He’d gained a lot of weight from the comfortable Holyfield payday. Could not have been a nice man. My friend had just won s belt if his own, and we were all kinda star struck. Asked Douglas for his autograph. He tells my friend “only if I can get yours, champ.” Class act. Made it about my friend. Was his night and Douglas was great.
When he was properly trained, he was far more skilled a boxer than most give him credit for. He didn't go for the one punch knockout. He was just so devastating that it seemed that way. But, he had a peek-a-boo style allowing him to get inside against bigger fighters without getting hit. He had deceptively fast feet and a faster head. Then, he had great combinations, with the 2 killers the punch to the body immediately into an uppercut and the body blow to a right hook (although some say the hook was followed by the elbow).
As for comparisons, as much as I loved Tyson and thought he was amazingly skilled in his prime, I would not take him, or anyone else, over Ali.
After Cus died, Tyson started listening to the wrong people. Don King became too involved. He was always a partier, but now he didn't have Cus to answer to anymore.
It will be hard to convince me that Tyson wasn't told to extend that fight as my fraternity brother told me well prior to it taking place. The last couple of top fights in Japan had been first round KO's and people forget that he had some lengthy contractual battles between his manager Bill Cayton and Don King. Boxing which was an outlet for him from his troubled youth, was starting to feel to him like he was just a pawn.
Whether or not Tyson actually tried to have the fight go longer than it should have to fulfill King's wishes, I don't know. He could just have slacked off on training as a big eff you to everyone. All we know is that the first two rounds were not following the usual Tyson script. He was not attacking and everytime Douglas jabbed him, he'd step back.
We probably will never know if the Douglas fight exposed him as a paper champ, if his demons took him down, or if he simply was a monster vs. tomato cans and overmatched against tall boxers with long reaches.
To me it's always demons. Young Tyson was a pretty good technical fighter with supreme power. Even after Douglas, Mike took huge shots from Razor Ruddock and kept coming.
Showtime didn't have boxing back then. It was 100% HBO.
Also, I listened to an interview with Tyson a few weeks back on 106.7 in DC with the Sports Junkies. They asked about that fight and he said the biggest problem that night was sex legs. They asked him what that was and he said that he was cooped up in his hotel for so long he was just pacing in the hallways. He said the Japanese women working there didn't know exactly who he was, only that he was famous. So he ended up banging a bunch of them over and over. He said that contributed to his lacking skills that night because fighters normally stay celibate leading up to fights.
I'm sure that story is some sort of half truth, but I found it funny and interesting because I had never hear it.