Combine is going to be huge for Kyler. If he measures well and isn't quite as tiny as I believe he is, I'd be okay taking a shot on him - at least the upside is there. I still think he'll have trouble staying on the field and will have other size-related struggles, but the talent is undeniable. The kid can sling the ball. He's not just a runner.
Still prefer Haskins, but if we're going QB and it's not the Dwayne Train, I'd just take a shot on Murray.
Daniel Jones worries me... I could see him being a lot like Tannehill. Won't suck, also won't be good enough to take the team to the next level.
Not big on Lock, either - I see way more Cutler than Mahomes.
Forget Grier.
And please, no Tyree Jackson - we've taken enough developmental QB's. Take a guy you fully intend on hitching your wagon to right after Eli.
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
1m
Kyler Murray will return $1.29 million of the $1.5 million signing bonus money the Oakland A’s gave him last year. He forfeits the remaining $3.16 million due March 1. The A’s will put him on the restricted list and retain Murray’s rights, but they don’t get a comp draft pick.
I'd do everything in their power to get as much money as possible. He really, really dicked them over.
They don't really have to "do" much; there is language in the contract that if he doesn't come to baseball camp, the signing bonus is forfeited.
I'm sure they'd rather have the player than the money, of course...
they should get his football contract too. I know it will never happen.
But EPIC screw job by Murray. You're going to see MLB teams tell players they wont be allowed to play another sport once the contract is signed.
It sucks for the A's, but it's not like they didn't know this could happen; they put language in the contract to protect themselves.
They probably figured that, though he could get more money overall with a football contract(s), he would be enticed by letting less overall money in baseball but not having his body beat up like it would be in football.
I'm a causal A's fan, so I'm bummed for them; they need reasons to get people in the seats, and he seemed just like what the doctor ordered
I'd do everything in their power to get as much money as possible. He really, really dicked them over.
How? They knew the risks in drafting him.
They probably figured since he is only 5 9 he had no shot at being an NFL 1st round pick. They gambled (which honestly was probably a good gamble) and lost.
he didn't screw anyone over. They signed him before the season started with language to protect themselves financially. Obviously they didn't think he'd be a Heisman winner, but they gambled fair and square and lost.
What's he supposed to do, not do what's best for him? The A's would, why shouldn't he?
I'd do everything in their power to get as much money as possible. He really, really dicked them over.
How? They knew the risks in drafting him.
No one knows the behind the door language. But I would wager good money there was assurances he would play basbeall when he signed the contract.
You watch now.... any contract signed will prevent players from playing another sport. If they dont agree to that, at least the team gets their pick back the following year.
I'd do everything in their power to get as much money as possible. He really, really dicked them over.
How? They knew the risks in drafting him.
No one knows the behind the door language. But I would wager good money there was assurances he would play basbeall when he signed the contract.
You watch now.... any contract signed will prevent players from playing another sport. If they dont agree to that, at least the team gets their pick back the following year.
So what? Isn't that their business then? I don't get why you think this was some massive screw job. Seems pretty cut and dried and if leagues are going to change up how they write contracts, that's on them. I also think this is fairly unprecedented as he's the only guy in the history of both leagues that has the opportunity to be drafted 1st round in each. That completely changes the money and isn't common at all.
This isn't something anyone should be mad at. A's knew the risks, sucks for them.
interest at #6, and I don't think the Giants will have any either.
And they shouldn't.
If Murray falls to the second round, which is where he belongs (or even later), then he's more interesting.
There is no such thing as "where he belongs". If he goes to the combine and and looks better than Mayfield in workouts, he is going in the first and maybe in the top 5.
He's not going Top 10, way too many questions. He has bottom third of round 1 written all over him. I'd work the phones once he got to around the point where it would cost us a 2020 2nd or 3rd and one of our 4s. He's a hard evaluation but worth the gamble there given the alternatives.
Non-Giants related but I think Belichick is on him sheerly off of curiosity and the professional challenge of shaping an offense around him.
There is no such thing as "where he belongs". If he goes to the combine and and looks better than Mayfield in workouts, he is going in the first and maybe in the top 5.
Sure there is. Now, it's certainly a subjective call, but scouts/front offices rank players all of the time by skills/metrics/upside/etc, and comp them to current and prior players.
I hate when any player signs a contract and wants out before honoring any or the entire of it.
He signed a contract to play for a team and didnt honor. Its 100% shitty.
Well no, there was language to protect themselves in case this happened, they clearly knew this was possible. While we don't know the exact terms we know enough to say that the A's absolutely knew the risks. I'm sure they would have loved it if he signed a deal that prevented going to another sport, but that didn't happened.
Old school or not Murray didn't break any rules. You are making it seem like he found some red tape that he took advantage of.
I hate when any player signs a contract and wants out before honoring any or the entire of it.
He signed a contract to play for a team and didnt honor. Its 100% shitty.
Well no, there was language to protect themselves in case this happened, they clearly knew this was possible. While we don't know the exact terms we know enough to say that the A's absolutely knew the risks. I'm sure they would have loved it if he signed a deal that prevented going to another sport, but that didn't happened.
Old school or not Murray didn't break any rules. You are making it seem like he found some red tape that he took advantage of.
No what I mean is he signed a contract to play for a team. Sure, they protected themselves $$$ wise, but thats not where they are getting screwed at. They just lost a valuable draft pick which they cannot get back.
If Murray had doubts, the contract should never have been signed. Or Murray should have told teams he wouldnt fully commit to baseball until football was over. Hell, Murray could have withdrew his name from the draft... played football - and if wasnt going to be a picked - he could have played another year at OU and been drafted again.
sorry I dont see it the same as most. But he signed a contract to a team and the team got screwed over by it. There is no compensation for them. Yes, there were risks, but those risks should have ended once his signature dried.
in the 2nd round because most teams thought he was going to play another sport professionally - I think it was baseball. He was a Giants linebacker for over 10 years. He, Brian Kelly, Harry Carson and LT were known as The Crunch Bunch.
There is no such thing as "where he belongs". If he goes to the combine and and looks better than Mayfield in workouts, he is going in the first and maybe in the top 5.
I think he could get a "Mayfield-bump". All of the 'experts' last year had Mayfield as the 3rd/4th best QB prospect heading into the draft due to some combo of: 1) the offense he played in, 2) his height, and 3) his attitude and, while early, Mayfield certainly looked like he deserved to be the #1 QB taken last season.
Murray put up nearly identical passing stats (plus ridiculously good rushing stats) in the same offense as Mayfield last year and doesn't have the attitude question-marks Mayfield did. So it really comes down to 2 things for him: 1) his height and 2) can he avoid being labeled as a "running QB"?
With respect to his height, is there any actual evidence that supports the prototypical QB height "guidelines"? It seems more and more QBs (Romo, Brees, Mayfield, Wilson, etc) are bucking this trend and excelling despite not being 6'4"+. Obviously, none are as short as Murray, but how short is too short? Another thing to keep in mind is the search for teams to find the next Aaron Donald who "fell" in part because he lacked prototypical DT size. Well, shorter DTs would seem to eliminate the need (in part) for taller QBs...
back from my week-long BBI suspension. Anyway, Kyler Murray entering the draft is only a good thing for the Giants. For one, it's possible (even if unlikely) that he gets picked before them which means one more player available in round 1 to choose from. And honestly, depending on how he measures & throws at the combine, I could be convinced he's the best QB in this draft class (though I'm a big fan of Haskins).
but its hard for me to see your side of things when the A's took a calculated gamble and lost. A contract was negotiated that still allowed Murray to walk, the A's agreed to that contract. They screwed themselves over by taking a player who may have chosen another sport. There were no unknowns, no one forced either side to agree to those terms but both did.
i'm not in love with the guys that are projected to go early in this draft nor do i care for the other QBs in this draft. i'd be more than willing to take a chance on him at 6.
I hate when any player signs a contract and wants out before honoring any or the entire of it.
He signed a contract to play for a team and didnt honor. Its 100% shitty.
Well no, there was language to protect themselves in case this happened, they clearly knew this was possible. While we don't know the exact terms we know enough to say that the A's absolutely knew the risks. I'm sure they would have loved it if he signed a deal that prevented going to another sport, but that didn't happened.
Old school or not Murray didn't break any rules. You are making it seem like he found some red tape that he took advantage of.
No what I mean is he signed a contract to play for a team. Sure, they protected themselves $$$ wise, but thats not where they are getting screwed at. They just lost a valuable draft pick which they cannot get back.
If Murray had doubts, the contract should never have been signed. Or Murray should have told teams he wouldnt fully commit to baseball until football was over. Hell, Murray could have withdrew his name from the draft... played football - and if wasnt going to be a picked - he could have played another year at OU and been drafted again.
sorry I dont see it the same as most. But he signed a contract to a team and the team got screwed over by it. There is no compensation for them. Yes, there were risks, but those risks should have ended once his signature dried.
If Oakland wanted to prevent that, they should have made it prohibitive in the contract or not drafted him. This is professional baseball team, they probably have a team of lawyers and this was a known risk. They screwed themselves
The whole reason there are contracts in place are to protect both party's rights. The player negotiates as much guaranteed money in case the NFL team cuts him and the NFL team usually has is on the hook for incentives if the player is doing well and outs if the player isn't.
Every contract specifies the outcomes if the team or the player ends their employment.
Stands to make more money and will be a lot more famous if he’s a good starting QB compared to baseball. And he’ll be playing next season instead of riding a bus around god knows where.
The whole reason there are contracts in place are to protect both party's rights. The player negotiates as much guaranteed money in case the NFL team cuts him and the NFL team usually has is on the hook for incentives if the player is doing well and outs if the player isn't.
Every contract specifies the outcomes if the team or the player ends their employment.
And Kyler Murray and the As worked into his contract what would happen if he chose to play football and not baseball
LOL
They don't really have to "do" much; there is language in the contract that if he doesn't come to baseball camp, the signing bonus is forfeited.
I'm sure they'd rather have the player than the money, of course...
Quote:
I'd do everything in their power to get as much money as possible. He really, really dicked them over.
They don't really have to "do" much; there is language in the contract that if he doesn't come to baseball camp, the signing bonus is forfeited.
I'm sure they'd rather have the player than the money, of course...
they should get his football contract too. I know it will never happen.
But EPIC screw job by Murray. You're going to see MLB teams tell players they wont be allowed to play another sport once the contract is signed.
Still prefer Haskins, but if we're going QB and it's not the Dwayne Train, I'd just take a shot on Murray.
Daniel Jones worries me... I could see him being a lot like Tannehill. Won't suck, also won't be good enough to take the team to the next level.
Not big on Lock, either - I see way more Cutler than Mahomes.
Forget Grier.
And please, no Tyree Jackson - we've taken enough developmental QB's. Take a guy you fully intend on hitching your wagon to right after Eli.
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
1m
Kyler Murray will return $1.29 million of the $1.5 million signing bonus money the Oakland A’s gave him last year. He forfeits the remaining $3.16 million due March 1. The A’s will put him on the restricted list and retain Murray’s rights, but they don’t get a comp draft pick.
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In comment 14293320 dep026 said:
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I'd do everything in their power to get as much money as possible. He really, really dicked them over.
They don't really have to "do" much; there is language in the contract that if he doesn't come to baseball camp, the signing bonus is forfeited.
I'm sure they'd rather have the player than the money, of course...
they should get his football contract too. I know it will never happen.
But EPIC screw job by Murray. You're going to see MLB teams tell players they wont be allowed to play another sport once the contract is signed.
It sucks for the A's, but it's not like they didn't know this could happen; they put language in the contract to protect themselves.
They probably figured that, though he could get more money overall with a football contract(s), he would be enticed by letting less overall money in baseball but not having his body beat up like it would be in football.
I'm a causal A's fan, so I'm bummed for them; they need reasons to get people in the seats, and he seemed just like what the doctor ordered
How? They knew the risks in drafting him.
Quote:
I'd do everything in their power to get as much money as possible. He really, really dicked them over.
How? They knew the risks in drafting him.
They probably figured since he is only 5 9 he had no shot at being an NFL 1st round pick. They gambled (which honestly was probably a good gamble) and lost.
What's he supposed to do, not do what's best for him? The A's would, why shouldn't he?
Quote:
I'd do everything in their power to get as much money as possible. He really, really dicked them over.
How? They knew the risks in drafting him.
No one knows the behind the door language. But I would wager good money there was assurances he would play basbeall when he signed the contract.
You watch now.... any contract signed will prevent players from playing another sport. If they dont agree to that, at least the team gets their pick back the following year.
Big deal.
If Football doesn't work out for him the A's will be more than happy to sign him then.
I agree with this. And I think his stock is going to rise substantially between now and the draft. I can see him going top 3.
And they shouldn't.
If Murray falls to the second round, which is where he belongs (or even later), then he's more interesting.
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In comment 14293320 dep026 said:
Quote:
I'd do everything in their power to get as much money as possible. He really, really dicked them over.
How? They knew the risks in drafting him.
No one knows the behind the door language. But I would wager good money there was assurances he would play basbeall when he signed the contract.
You watch now.... any contract signed will prevent players from playing another sport. If they dont agree to that, at least the team gets their pick back the following year.
So what? Isn't that their business then? I don't get why you think this was some massive screw job. Seems pretty cut and dried and if leagues are going to change up how they write contracts, that's on them. I also think this is fairly unprecedented as he's the only guy in the history of both leagues that has the opportunity to be drafted 1st round in each. That completely changes the money and isn't common at all.
This isn't something anyone should be mad at. A's knew the risks, sucks for them.
Quote:
interest at #6, and I don't think the Giants will have any either.
And they shouldn't.
If Murray falls to the second round, which is where he belongs (or even later), then he's more interesting.
There is no such thing as "where he belongs". If he goes to the combine and and looks better than Mayfield in workouts, he is going in the first and maybe in the top 5.
Non-Giants related but I think Belichick is on him sheerly off of curiosity and the professional challenge of shaping an offense around him.
He signed a contract to play for a team and didnt honor. Its 100% shitty.
There is no such thing as "where he belongs". If he goes to the combine and and looks better than Mayfield in workouts, he is going in the first and maybe in the top 5.
Sure there is. Now, it's certainly a subjective call, but scouts/front offices rank players all of the time by skills/metrics/upside/etc, and comp them to current and prior players.
and start figuring out what Kyler Murray is going to do to NFL defenses!"
He signed a contract to play for a team and didnt honor. Its 100% shitty.
Well no, there was language to protect themselves in case this happened, they clearly knew this was possible. While we don't know the exact terms we know enough to say that the A's absolutely knew the risks. I'm sure they would have loved it if he signed a deal that prevented going to another sport, but that didn't happened.
Old school or not Murray didn't break any rules. You are making it seem like he found some red tape that he took advantage of.
Quote:
I hate when any player signs a contract and wants out before honoring any or the entire of it.
He signed a contract to play for a team and didnt honor. Its 100% shitty.
Well no, there was language to protect themselves in case this happened, they clearly knew this was possible. While we don't know the exact terms we know enough to say that the A's absolutely knew the risks. I'm sure they would have loved it if he signed a deal that prevented going to another sport, but that didn't happened.
Old school or not Murray didn't break any rules. You are making it seem like he found some red tape that he took advantage of.
No what I mean is he signed a contract to play for a team. Sure, they protected themselves $$$ wise, but thats not where they are getting screwed at. They just lost a valuable draft pick which they cannot get back.
If Murray had doubts, the contract should never have been signed. Or Murray should have told teams he wouldnt fully commit to baseball until football was over. Hell, Murray could have withdrew his name from the draft... played football - and if wasnt going to be a picked - he could have played another year at OU and been drafted again.
sorry I dont see it the same as most. But he signed a contract to a team and the team got screwed over by it. There is no compensation for them. Yes, there were risks, but those risks should have ended once his signature dried.
But I would wager good money there was assurances he would play basbeall when he signed the contract.
That's simply not true; otherwise they wouldn't have put language in a contract to protect them if he didn't play baseball.
The A's knew exacxtly what they were getting into.
As someone above said - it was a good gamble, but they lost...
There is no such thing as "where he belongs". If he goes to the combine and and looks better than Mayfield in workouts, he is going in the first and maybe in the top 5.
I think he could get a "Mayfield-bump". All of the 'experts' last year had Mayfield as the 3rd/4th best QB prospect heading into the draft due to some combo of: 1) the offense he played in, 2) his height, and 3) his attitude and, while early, Mayfield certainly looked like he deserved to be the #1 QB taken last season.
Murray put up nearly identical passing stats (plus ridiculously good rushing stats) in the same offense as Mayfield last year and doesn't have the attitude question-marks Mayfield did. So it really comes down to 2 things for him: 1) his height and 2) can he avoid being labeled as a "running QB"?
With respect to his height, is there any actual evidence that supports the prototypical QB height "guidelines"? It seems more and more QBs (Romo, Brees, Mayfield, Wilson, etc) are bucking this trend and excelling despite not being 6'4"+. Obviously, none are as short as Murray, but how short is too short? Another thing to keep in mind is the search for teams to find the next Aaron Donald who "fell" in part because he lacked prototypical DT size. Well, shorter DTs would seem to eliminate the need (in part) for taller QBs...
Quote:
But I would wager good money there was assurances he would play basbeall when he signed the contract.
That's simply not true; otherwise they wouldn't have put language in a contract to protect them if he didn't play baseball.
The A's knew exacxtly what they were getting into.
As someone above said - it was a good gamble, but they lost...
And I bet no team will ever lose on that gamble again.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Gruden take him.
Quote:
In comment 14293377 dep026 said:
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I hate when any player signs a contract and wants out before honoring any or the entire of it.
He signed a contract to play for a team and didnt honor. Its 100% shitty.
Well no, there was language to protect themselves in case this happened, they clearly knew this was possible. While we don't know the exact terms we know enough to say that the A's absolutely knew the risks. I'm sure they would have loved it if he signed a deal that prevented going to another sport, but that didn't happened.
Old school or not Murray didn't break any rules. You are making it seem like he found some red tape that he took advantage of.
No what I mean is he signed a contract to play for a team. Sure, they protected themselves $$$ wise, but thats not where they are getting screwed at. They just lost a valuable draft pick which they cannot get back.
If Murray had doubts, the contract should never have been signed. Or Murray should have told teams he wouldnt fully commit to baseball until football was over. Hell, Murray could have withdrew his name from the draft... played football - and if wasnt going to be a picked - he could have played another year at OU and been drafted again.
sorry I dont see it the same as most. But he signed a contract to a team and the team got screwed over by it. There is no compensation for them. Yes, there were risks, but those risks should have ended once his signature dried.
If Oakland wanted to prevent that, they should have made it prohibitive in the contract or not drafted him. This is professional baseball team, they probably have a team of lawyers and this was a known risk. They screwed themselves
So the Giants or any NFL team shouldnt cut a player right? They must uphold the entire contract?
So the Giants or any NFL team shouldnt cut a player right? They must uphold the entire contract?
I do believe teams should honor them as well.
Intriguing prospect no doubt, but pass. Giants can’t afford to miss
The whole reason there are contracts in place are to protect both party's rights. The player negotiates as much guaranteed money in case the NFL team cuts him and the NFL team usually has is on the hook for incentives if the player is doing well and outs if the player isn't.
Every contract specifies the outcomes if the team or the player ends their employment.
The whole reason there are contracts in place are to protect both party's rights. The player negotiates as much guaranteed money in case the NFL team cuts him and the NFL team usually has is on the hook for incentives if the player is doing well and outs if the player isn't.
Every contract specifies the outcomes if the team or the player ends their employment.
And Kyler Murray and the As worked into his contract what would happen if he chose to play football and not baseball
It was part of his contract