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Vacchiano claims Giants think Kyler Murray is...

Mike in St. Louis : 2/11/2019 4:13 pm
too small...

"A team source told SNY's Ralph Vacchiano that Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray is "probably a little too small" for the Giants.

The Giants "prefer to stick to the established measurables they have for a prototypical quarterback," Vacchiano notes. The Giants' organization emphasizes conventional wisdom and inside-the-box thinking, and they haven't started a quarterback that measures below 6-feet since 5-foot-11 Gary Wood went 0-6 in 1966. And "the philosophy hasn't changed all that much (in that over half-century timeframe)," Vacchiano confirms. 6-foot-3 Dwayne Haskins, 6-foot-4 Drew Lock, and 6-foot-5 Daniel Jones appear to be likelier candidates to succeed 6-foot-4 Eli Manning than 5-foot-9 Murray."

Source: SNY.com
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from Vachiano..  
Mike in St. Louis : 2/11/2019 4:15 pm : link
And it absolutely helps the Giants if another quarterback is thrown into the first-round mix.

Right now, the general consensus is that the only quarterbacks worthy of a first-round pick are Ohio State's Dwayne Haskins, Missouri's Drew Lock and maybe Duke's Daniel Jones. But there are three teams in the Top 10 that could be looking for a quarterback - the Giants (at 6), the Jaguars (7) and the Broncos (10) - and a few others who could trade up for a quarterback like the Dolphins (13) and Redskins (15).

Link - ( New Window )
No kidding...  
bceagle05 : 2/11/2019 4:16 pm : link
Quote:
The Giants' organization emphasizes conventional wisdom and inside-the-box thinking
Murray is too small for a #6 pick...  
bw in dc : 2/11/2019 4:22 pm : link
I agree with Jints Central on that. However, if he was available in later rounds, which he won't be - but play along, Murray would get more interesting.

There may not be a team more in the box than Jints Central. They love their box. It's warm, comfortable and predictable. And I think this a large reason for the wild inconsistency the last 25+ years...
Was that info disseminated on purpose?  
Big Blue '56 : 2/11/2019 4:23 pm : link
.
Well they are Giants...  
bradshaw44 : 2/11/2019 4:23 pm : link
Sooo...
RE: Was that info disseminated on purpose?  
bradshaw44 : 2/11/2019 4:24 pm : link
In comment 14293617 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
.


Thought crossed my mind too. Disinformation campaign.
That is the  
Giantophile : 2/11/2019 4:26 pm : link
most "Giants" quote of all time.
RE: No kidding...  
jcn56 : 2/11/2019 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14293608 bceagle05 said:
Quote:


Quote:


The Giants' organization emphasizes conventional wisdom and inside-the-box thinking



Ha, I thought the same thing when I read this.
It's  
DanMetroMan : 2/11/2019 4:26 pm : link
fine not to think Murray is the guy but the Giants have had many, many awful QB's in their history. To trust them like they routinely identify the right guy is kind of ridiculous.
smokescreen  
uther99 : 2/11/2019 4:26 pm : link
.
RE: Was that info disseminated on purpose?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/11/2019 4:27 pm : link
In comment 14293617 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
.


I don't think so. Young and Accorsi made numerous public comments on team size requirements by position for premium picks. Given that Gettleman was raised in that Giants' culture, and his numerous old school type comments on personnel, I would be shocked to see the Giants break from their past.
RE: Was that info disseminated on purpose?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/11/2019 4:28 pm : link
In comment 14293617 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
.


Also, for years, there are those out there who insist the Giants are using disinformation because no team would be so public in voicing their pre-draft preferences. And every year, we find out that it was no smoke.

The most recent example was Barkley.
a smokescreen is as un-Giant like  
bluepepper : 2/11/2019 4:31 pm : link
as taking an under 6-foot QB. Probably no team is worse at hiding it's draft preferences. And no it wasn't just a Reese problem, it predated him and last year everyone knew we were going to take Barkley.
The Giants dont do smoke screens  
ron mexico : 2/11/2019 4:31 pm : link
Just like all the Barkley talk last year, take it at face value and move on.

RE: RE: Was that info disseminated on purpose?  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/11/2019 4:34 pm : link
In comment 14293629 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14293617 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


.



Also, for years, there are those out there who insist the Giants are using disinformation because no team would be so public in voicing their pre-draft preferences. And every year, we find out that it was no smoke.

The most recent example was Barkley.


The Giants are just extremely predictable because of these requirements and what they look for. If the New York Post would let me write the same article, which is obvious to any Giants fan, all of a sudden I'm a journalist.
I really would love to know the scouting report  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/11/2019 4:36 pm : link
they gave to Baker Mayfield.
RE: Was that info disseminated on purpose?  
bw in dc : 2/11/2019 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14293617 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
.


You really are embarrassing. I mean, this is Jints Central. "The Waltons" of the NFL...

I dont want Murray  
The Dude : 2/11/2019 4:41 pm : link
felt the need to say that first but is anyone shocked that our pre historic thinking giants feel this way?
RE: RE: Was that info disseminated on purpose?  
AcidTest : 2/11/2019 4:42 pm : link
In comment 14293626 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14293617 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


.



I don't think so. Young and Accorsi made numerous public comments on team size requirements by position for premium picks. Given that Gettleman was raised in that Giants' culture, and his numerous old school type comments on personnel, I would be shocked to see the Giants break from their past.


Agreed.
RE: RE: Was that info disseminated on purpose?  
uther99 : 2/11/2019 4:42 pm : link
In comment 14293638 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14293617 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


.



You really are embarrassing. I mean, this is Jints Central. "The Waltons" of the NFL...


That's why it's perfect. Took 90 something years to spring this trap
Not surprising in fact  
Dave on the UWS : 2/11/2019 4:49 pm : link
It’s so predictable that Ralph May have written his article with NO source at all!
Pretty intense analysis....  
WideRight : 2/11/2019 4:50 pm : link
When the guy is listed as 5'11", Giants brass really dug deep on this one.

And they qualified thet by saying "they think", obviously keenly aware that's 1 inch shorter than Drew Brees. They definitely see the whole picture.

And by not commenting on arm strength or mobility, the brain trust is playing this very close to the vest. No leaks, excpet for Ralph.

Very shrewd front office. Great story by Ralph
All fun & games until the #6 pick is on the clock  
Jim Bur(n)t : 2/11/2019 4:54 pm : link
Reese would have been flapping his gums to anyone who would listen... DG is a pro GM.
RE: Not surprising in fact  
robbieballs2003 : 2/11/2019 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14293647 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
It’s so predictable that Ralph May have written his article with NO source at all!


I'm wondering that myself. What is his job? Isn't he a Jets beat writer now? Why is he all of a sudden getting sources from the Giants to openly talk about a QB that could potentially be our pick?

Say what you want about the lack of smokescreens which I agree about but when have we ever openly discussed not having a player valued at a certain spot? I cannot remember a time. Gettleman was very openly gushing over Barkley but never discredited any of the QBs leading many to think we could be taking a QB last year. This sounds like bullshit RV to me.
nothing gets me more excited than visiting BBI  
UConn4523 : 2/11/2019 4:55 pm : link
and reading threads about whether the Giants are telegraphing or faking information that's being reported.

This "report" doesn't mean anything.
One down (Murray)  
The_Boss : 2/11/2019 4:56 pm : link
One to go (Haskins)

RE: RE: RE: Was that info disseminated on purpose?  
Go Terps : 2/11/2019 4:59 pm : link
In comment 14293642 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 14293626 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 14293617 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


.



I don't think so. Young and Accorsi made numerous public comments on team size requirements by position for premium picks. Given that Gettleman was raised in that Giants' culture, and his numerous old school type comments on personnel, I would be shocked to see the Giants break from their past.



Agreed.


Seconded.
So thry cross him off the draft board  
UberAlias : 2/11/2019 5:00 pm : link
Before combine and taking a look at him up close. This can be a close minded organization lacking in innovation.
A typical Giants quarterback in the draft...  
BamaBlue : 2/11/2019 5:04 pm : link
is a quarterback with high measurable, height, arm strength and leadership. He also generally stunk to high heaven... Other than Phil Sims and Eli Manning (in the best quarterback class since '84), how has that 'winning formula' played out?
RE: RE: Was that info disseminated on purpose?  
Hammer : 2/11/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14293629 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14293617 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


.



Also, for years, there are those out there who insist the Giants are using disinformation because no team would be so public in voicing their pre-draft preferences. And every year, we find out that it was no smoke.

The most recent example was Barkley.


Yeah. I recall being one of the folks that thought all the Barkley talk was smoke.

Boy, was I ever wrong.

It seems that the Giants don't use smoke signals. Therefore, it is pretty safe to conclude that, when it comes to the Giants, where there is smoke there is fire.
RE: So thry cross him off the draft board  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/11/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14293660 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Before combine and taking a look at him up close. This can be a close minded organization lacking in innovation.


For better or worse, this is an organization that will eliminate (or severely downgrade) guys due to physical or mental issues.

We don't know if they would completely erase Murray from their draftboard.

Look at Jesse Armstead. The Giants admitted they drafted him even due to his lack of size and previous injury history because they value was too great in the 8th round.
This Nonsense would sound better if  
ZogZerg : 2/11/2019 5:07 pm : link
Murray were 6ft and not a Midget.

I would argue that most NFL teams don't see Murray as the #6 overall pick.

I agree with poster above - what grade did the Giants have on Mayfield? That would be telling.
If this is true  
jtdukedfw : 2/11/2019 5:11 pm : link
my disappointment will have no end. How many corporations have succeeded with conventional wisdom and in the box thinking over the last several years. Its a new game out there on the horizon. Yeah i get the last super bow was 13-3 but besides the fact that the top scoring teams made the "final four" look at the score of the winner of the last six prior 41,34,24,28,45 and 34. Do i think Murray is the answer how the heck would i know but how can you leave him out because of 1 inch how can you say its over its not over until we decide its over was it over when the Germans bombed pearl harbor
I wouldn't take Murray (or any other QB) at #6,  
Go Terps : 2/11/2019 5:11 pm : link
but the question is if Murray drops significantly and is at or in range of our second round pick, do we pass on him then? Say if he and Jones are on the board at the top of round 2, are we seriously going to pick Jones ahead of him? That would be tough to take.
RE: A typical Giants quarterback in the draft...  
Mike from Ohio : 2/11/2019 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14293663 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
is a quarterback with high measurable, height, arm strength and leadership. He also generally stunk to high heaven... Other than Phil Sims and Eli Manning (in the best quarterback class since '84), how has that 'winning formula' played out?


Well to be fair, which team keeps hitting on QB after QB? The Packers had Favre (who they traded for) and then Rodgers. Who else seamlessly moved from one great QB to the next through the draft in the past 20 years or so?
Murray is going to rise by the time draft day rolls around  
Leg of Theismann : 2/11/2019 5:13 pm : link
And he will be gone before the Giants even pick at #6.

People are going to keep telling this kid he's too small and he will continue to prove them wrong. He was too small to play QB in the first place, then went on to be (statistically speaking) the greatest high school football player in history. Then he was too small to play D1 football and he went on to win the Heisman trophy. Now he's too small to play in the NFL or be a top 10 pick. At what point are people going to stop doubting him and accept the fact he's an absolutely exceptional quarterback?
RE: This Nonsense would sound better if  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/11/2019 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14293667 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Murray were 6ft and not a Midget.

I would argue that most NFL teams don't see Murray as the #6 overall pick.

I agree with poster above - what grade did the Giants have on Mayfield? That would be telling.


For me that is the most frustrating part of the Giants and the current situation. If the Browns take Barkley at 1 they probably pass on a talent like Mayfield because of "character concerns" or his lack of "ideal" height. It's a wide open game. These height concerns really aren't what they used to be.

I don't think Murray's issue is height, he is less than an inch shorter than Wilson. It's hard to see him avoiding upperbody injuries at his size. Things like broken collar bones and shoulder injuries.
RE: RE: A typical Giants quarterback in the draft...  
The_Boss : 2/11/2019 5:17 pm : link
In comment 14293674 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 14293663 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


is a quarterback with high measurable, height, arm strength and leadership. He also generally stunk to high heaven... Other than Phil Sims and Eli Manning (in the best quarterback class since '84), how has that 'winning formula' played out?



Well to be fair, which team keeps hitting on QB after QB? The Packers had Favre (who they traded for) and then Rodgers. Who else seamlessly moved from one great QB to the next through the draft in the past 20 years or so?


Manning and Luck?
People need to be reminded 10x every offseason  
Sy'56 : 2/11/2019 5:23 pm : link
Do not believe what you read in the media in regard to teams and their grades.

Reporters need clicks.
RE: RE: Was that info disseminated on purpose?  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/11/2019 5:23 pm : link
In comment 14293620 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 14293617 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


.



Thought crossed my mind too. Disinformation campaign.

Yes, the Giants as an organization and Dave Gettleman in particular are well known for their well-honed skills in subterfuge.
That Hot Woman at the Bar is REALLY into You!  
Jim in Tampa : 2/11/2019 5:29 pm : link
The fact that she just threw a drink in your face and told you to F**K OFF was all just part of her disinformation campaign.
RE: All fun & games until the #6 pick is on the clock  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/11/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14293651 Jim Bur(n)t said:
Quote:
Reese would have been flapping his gums to anyone who would listen... DG is a pro GM.

Right - no one was able to predict Barkley last year, or McCaffrey in Carolina the year before.

His interest in McCaffrey was so obvious and so well documented that even PFT questioned whether it was a smokescreen because no GM would be that transparent in telegraphing their pick.

There's a difference between reality and wishful thinking. DG's football acumen and talent appraisal skills may be outstanding, but there is nothing in his history to suggest that he's particularly good at hiding his intentions. But if you want to believe that he's good at that simply because he's not Jerry Reese, have at it.
RE: RE: So thry cross him off the draft board  
UberAlias : 2/11/2019 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14293665 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14293660 UberAlias said:


Quote:


Before combine and taking a look at him up close. This can be a close minded organization lacking in innovation.



For better or worse, this is an organization that will eliminate (or severely downgrade) guys due to physical or mental issues.

We don't know if they would completely erase Murray from their draftboard.

Look at Jesse Armstead. The Giants admitted they drafted him even due to his lack of size and previous injury history because they value was too great in the 8th round.
Not necessarily literally cross him off. But you know as well as I do that if they come into an evaluation close minded, they might as well cross him off. This is 6th overall, not exactly 8th round.
Another viewpoint  
Defenderdawg : 2/11/2019 5:39 pm : link
Michael Lombardi (@mlombardiNFL)
2/11/19, 4:24 PM
The Giants have used the same grading system since George Young took over and in that system, they would have a hard time giving Murray a high grade. the system is designed to prevent the team from being small--its all about size and speed.
RE: I wouldn't take Murray (or any other QB) at #6,  
bw in dc : 2/11/2019 5:39 pm : link
In comment 14293671 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but the question is if Murray drops significantly and is at or in range of our second round pick, do we pass on him then? Say if he and Jones are on the board at the top of round 2, are we seriously going to pick Jones ahead of him? That would be tough to take.


I hate to say it, but too many signs point to Jones as a target.

Manning Camp guy, Cutcliffe, loves Eli, prototype size per the Jints Central box, etc.

RE: RE: I wouldn't take Murray (or any other QB) at #6,  
Go Terps : 2/11/2019 5:40 pm : link
In comment 14293695 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14293671 Go Terps said:


Quote:


but the question is if Murray drops significantly and is at or in range of our second round pick, do we pass on him then? Say if he and Jones are on the board at the top of round 2, are we seriously going to pick Jones ahead of him? That would be tough to take.



I hate to say it, but too many signs point to Jones as a target.

Manning Camp guy, Cutcliffe, loves Eli, prototype size per the Jints Central box, etc.


Yup.
RE: Another viewpoint  
robbieballs2003 : 2/11/2019 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14293694 Defenderdawg said:
Quote:
Michael Lombardi (@mlombardiNFL)
2/11/19, 4:24 PM
The Giants have used the same grading system since George Young took over and in that system, they would have a hard time giving Murray a high grade. the system is designed to prevent the team from being small--its all about size and speed.


Except for the fact that Gettleman said he changed a lot of stuff last year including how they evaluate and grade players. He said he stated that he learned some good things in Carolina and brought them over. He also said he was emphasizing more production than projection. So, that Lombardi tweet is bullshit to me. No offense defenderdawg. That isn't directed at you. I appreciate the info you bring.
Warren Sharp  
Go Terps : 2/11/2019 5:43 pm : link
I can't link to it at work, but on Twitter Warren Sharp has several posts about the short/tall QB discussion, and he even mocks a Shurmur quote about preferring tall QBs.

If you read sources unaffiliated with the Giants you get the sense the way they are doing things isn't particularly well respected.
robbie  
Go Terps : 2/11/2019 5:45 pm : link
When you say, "changed a lot of stuff" does that mean he tweaked Young's system, or he implemented/developed something completely unrelated? Because if he just tweaked Young's system, is it still bullshit to say he's using Young's system?
RE: Pretty intense analysis....  
montanagiant : 2/11/2019 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14293648 WideRight said:
Quote:
When the guy is listed as 5'11", Giants brass really dug deep on this one.

And they qualified thet by saying "they think", obviously keenly aware that's 1 inch shorter than Drew Brees. They definitely see the whole picture.

And by not commenting on arm strength or mobility, the brain trust is playing this very close to the vest. No leaks, excpet for Ralph.

Very shrewd front office. Great story by Ralph

He's 5'9
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