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Kyler going 1st overall?

Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 6:29 am
Josina Anderson seems to think so. I posted it in the Kyler Murray thread below, but think it deserves it's own thread.

Quote:
Tweet from @JosinaAnderson: So....now the first question mark in the NFL Draft starts at #2.


Quote:
Tweet from @JosinaAnderson: I remember when it literally took hearing Baker Mayfield's name coming out of Roger Goodell's mouth draft night before folks believed what we'd been saying all day. Draft night gonna be so fun.


If this is true I'd assume many teams will be offering picks for Rosen. I think the Giants would have be included in that. He's got a year of NFL experience. He just turned 22 and is only 3 months older then Haskins.
Interesting  
ZogZerg : 2/12/2019 6:38 am : link
This was the theory when Murray first announced he was heading to draft. Cards coach apparently really likes him.

Has she heard something else or is she just repeating what was already discussed weeks ago?
Backflips  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/12/2019 6:39 am : link
If he goes #1. Heís by no means a side fire NFL QB despite the insanity of the internet mob. Let someother team pretend heís at the Andrew Luck level. Pushes a better player down
You already posted this  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 6:41 am : link
.
RE: You already posted this  
Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 6:44 am : link
In comment 14294043 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
.


Yup. I said it at the very beginning of this post. Sorry I'm taking up your bandwidth.
The this means Cards trade Rosen?  
bradshaw44 : 2/12/2019 6:45 am : link
What a weird team.
RE: Interesting  
Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 6:45 am : link
In comment 14294041 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
This was the theory when Murray first announced he was heading to draft. Cards coach apparently really likes him.

Has she heard something else or is she just repeating what was already discussed weeks ago?



Pretty sure this is new info. I've seen a few other people say the rumor has started picking up steam. He also just signed with Kliff Kingsbury's agent.
I would hope DG is then all in on Rosen  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 6:48 am : link
I think heís better than any draft eligible QB this year and next. And I would trade whatever it takes (6 included if necessary) to get him.
I would not trade a first rounder for Rosen  
Oscar : 2/12/2019 6:54 am : link
The Cards are stuck in this situation and would have to dump him. I would offer the second rounder and maybe a lower pick but thats it.
Huge red flag dumping him  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 6:56 am : link
and 2 cost controlled years gone unless you think Eli is getting cut in this scenario. Our 1st would be nuts. Offer a 2nd and add on other picks but a 1 is off the table.
RE: I would not trade a first rounder for Rosen  
Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 6:57 am : link
In comment 14294050 Oscar said:
Quote:
The Cards are stuck in this situation and would have to dump him. I would offer the second rounder and maybe a lower pick but thats it.


They aren't stuck. They have a QB who just went 10th overall in a strong QB class. There are many teams who need a QB. We'd offer our 2nd and get laughed out. While the Fins, Redskins, Jags, Broncos, Pats all offer something better.
RE: Huge red flag dumping him  
Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 7:00 am : link
In comment 14294051 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and 2 cost controlled years gone unless you think Eli is getting cut in this scenario. Our 1st would be nuts. Offer a 2nd and add on other picks but a 1 is off the table.


Huge red flag that he doesn't fit the offense the Cardinals new HC wants to run?
RE: RE: I would not trade a first rounder for Rosen  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 7:08 am : link
In comment 14294052 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14294050 Oscar said:


Quote:


The Cards are stuck in this situation and would have to dump him. I would offer the second rounder and maybe a lower pick but thats it.



They aren't stuck. They have a QB who just went 10th overall in a strong QB class. There are many teams who need a QB. We'd offer our 2nd and get laughed out. While the Fins, Redskins, Jags, Broncos, Pats all offer something better.


Agreed. Unless weíre offering 6, weíd have no shot. The thing we are assuming is DG being interested in acquiring Rosen. I would hope he would be. In fact, if he werenít, to me it would fall under derogation of duty, which should be a fireable offense.
Yes, huge red flag  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 7:08 am : link
itís fine if you want to look at everything as a positive but anyone dumping a top pick, at QB no less should at least raise concern. But hey letís ignore that and give them the 6th overall pick, make him nice and happy sitting on the bench in 2019, and then hope heís good enough in the next 2 years after to pay him.

Rosen is fine. Iíd take him but not at that price. If the Dolphins want to blow their load for him go right ahead. IMO his ceiling just isnít big enough.
They'd be dumping a QB  
Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 7:11 am : link
Because of the offense that Kliff Kingsbury runs. He needs a mobile QB. Obviously that isn't Josh Rosen. That's not a red flag on Josh Rosen. That'd be a red flag on the Cardinals front office and GM.
RE: Yes, huge red flag  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 7:14 am : link
In comment 14294056 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
itís fine if you want to look at everything as a positive but anyone dumping a top pick, at QB no less should at least raise concern. But hey letís ignore that and give them the 6th overall pick, make him nice and happy sitting on the bench in 2019, and then hope heís good enough in the next 2 years after to pay him.

Rosen is fine. Iíd take him but not at that price. If the Dolphins want to blow their load for him go right ahead. IMO his ceiling just isnít big enough.


Rosen would start week 1. If Eli is still around you have an open competition. If you remove loyalty and sentimentality from the equation, which I realize is hard at ďJints CentralĒ, Rosen likely beats Eli out.
RE: RE: Yes, huge red flag  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 7:15 am : link
In comment 14294061 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14294056 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


itís fine if you want to look at everything as a positive but anyone dumping a top pick, at QB no less should at least raise concern. But hey letís ignore that and give them the 6th overall pick, make him nice and happy sitting on the bench in 2019, and then hope heís good enough in the next 2 years after to pay him.

Rosen is fine. Iíd take him but not at that price. If the Dolphins want to blow their load for him go right ahead. IMO his ceiling just isnít big enough.



Rosen would start week 1. If Eli is still around you have an open competition. If you remove loyalty and sentimentality from the equation, which I realize is hard at ďJints CentralĒ, Rosen likely beats Eli out.


Wow, I felt so douchie writing jints central.
RE: Huge red flag dumping him  
Diver_Down : 2/12/2019 7:15 am : link
In comment 14294051 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and 2 cost controlled years gone unless you think Eli is getting cut in this scenario. Our 1st would be nuts. Offer a 2nd and add on other picks but a 1 is off the table.


Rosen wouldn't sit the entire season unless Eli is carrying them to a playoff berth. While I'm confident in Eli's abilities with a proper OL, I have zero confidence in the Bettcher Boys.

We must also consider that Arizona would have to eat Rosen's signing bonus - $10.8M. While #6 seems steep, we could ask for their 2nd round pick. We would be able to still get quality rookies at the top of the 2nd and maybe move up into the bottom of the first if we package some late round picks.
Give them #6 for Rosen and #33  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 7:15 am : link
And move on from Eli.

Or next years #2 if they don't want to part with this years.

I submit  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 7:18 am : link
nothing wrong here, give the Cardinals whatever it takes.
RE: RE: Huge red flag dumping him  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 7:20 am : link
In comment 14294064 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14294051 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


and 2 cost controlled years gone unless you think Eli is getting cut in this scenario. Our 1st would be nuts. Offer a 2nd and add on other picks but a 1 is off the table.



Rosen wouldn't sit the entire season unless Eli is carrying them to a playoff berth. While I'm confident in Eli's abilities with a proper OL, I have zero confidence in the Bettcher Boys.

We must also consider that Arizona would have to eat Rosen's signing bonus - $10.8M. While #6 seems steep, we could ask for their 2nd round pick. We would be able to still get quality rookies at the top of the 2nd and maybe move up into the bottom of the first if we package some late round picks.


That's a good point about the signing bonus. Would make his cap hit very low.
I do not want Rosen  
cjac : 2/12/2019 7:20 am : link
it seems most likely that Lock or Haskins will be available at #6, and I think both of them are better than Rosen, or will be eventually
RE: I submit  
Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 7:21 am : link
In comment 14294066 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
nothing wrong here, give the Cardinals whatever it takes.


Good. Glad you can admit when you're wrong.
If the Cards  
Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 7:25 am : link
Hired a HC like Shurmur or were going to draft a pocket passer at 1 then yeah I'd agree with you about it being a huge red flag.

They didn't. They hired a HC whose only coached college football and relies on a mobile QB. That's why they'd be drafting a mobile QB at 1.

That's not a negative on Rosen. He's a pure pocket passer. It would be smart for the Cardinals to not try to fit a square peg in a round hole.
I agree, Iím stupid  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 7:25 am : link
this is a no brainer. Heíd be the best prospect to come out in years. Glad Iím finally seeing the light.
Obviously  
crick n NC : 2/12/2019 7:28 am : link
Your stupid comment is sarcastic, but you're treating others as if they are stupid on a topic where they could just as easily be right as you.
RE: Huge red flag dumping him  
section125 : 2/12/2019 7:28 am : link
In comment 14294051 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and 2 cost controlled years gone unless you think Eli is getting cut in this scenario. Our 1st would be nuts. Offer a 2nd and add on other picks but a 1 is off the table.


He's only played one year. How are 2 cost controlled years gone? Because he likely starts the season behind Eli? So what. If he is the guy to replace Eli, then it is worth the pick. While I agree I'd offer the #2 first, I'd bet Wash, Jax, Denver and others would be in on him, so It will like take the #6 to get him - maybe they can get the Cards #3 back (I doubt it.)
When this first broke,  
George from PA : 2/12/2019 7:32 am : link
It was thrown around to get him

OBJ for Rosen.....which should do it.....and the BBI crowd who was screaming for him...should be pleased with Him and Barkley.

I love watching OBJ but the Giants are Barkley team and I am not sure how well that will go longterm.

Did Rosen show anything ?

I get the arm, accuracy etc...but
I had a bunch of concern about lack of leadership, etc.....his team was the worst? Arizona giving up on him is a red flag...no?
RE: When this first broke,  
section125 : 2/12/2019 7:36 am : link
In comment 14294078 George from PA said:
Quote:
It was thrown around to get him

OBJ for Rosen.....which should do it.....and the BBI crowd who was screaming for him...should be pleased with Him and Barkley.

I love watching OBJ but the Giants are Barkley team and I am not sure how well that will go longterm.

Did Rosen show anything ?

I get the arm, accuracy etc...but
I had a bunch of concern about lack of leadership, etc.....his team was the worst? Arizona giving up on him is a red flag...no?


Did you read the rest of the thread? If the HC wants to switch to a RPO type offense which requires a mobile QB, Rosen doesn't fit the bill and was the last group's choice. It is not a red flag - Rosen is a straight drop back QB.
He also proved to be durable which was a ?? before the draft. Not sure about his leadership - it is a legit question.
When could a transaction like this take place?  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 7:38 am : link
Could it happen once the league year starts or is there another date on the NFL calendar that needs to pass?

I know there is practically zero chance of it happening but it's fun to discuss
RE: Obviously  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 7:39 am : link
In comment 14294076 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Your stupid comment is sarcastic, but you're treating others as if they are stupid on a topic where they could just as easily be right as you.


I don't want to argue anymore but here's my thoughts. I would have been ok trading back for Rosen last year, felt his upside was limited by his concussions, attitude, and lack of mobility. BBI members who are locked in also reported that he wasn't even in the conversation.

Fast forward to this year I dont think he's any better of a prospect thank Haskins and definitely not Murray if the size checks out (it won't but I still like him more). I'm also ready to try and break the mold at QB and don't need/want Eli 2.0.

So yeah, do with that what you will. If Rosen is such a no brainer the OC in Arizona would make it work. I'm not about to bail them out with the #6 overall pick.
Rosen would work for me if it was next year's first  
Heisenberg : 2/12/2019 7:40 am : link
That would be pretty good. The only reason to give them #6 is if you like Rosen better than all the QBs in this draft. I doubt that the Giants do.
The Cards had a rookie  
Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 7:44 am : link
With the worst OL in the NFL and a terrible supporting cast around him. Their HC who was in way over his head and fired after 1 year and their OC was fired in the middle of the year.

David Johnson averaged 3.6 YPC. Their only WR is 35 years old. After that they don't have much. They have no TE. We can't really judge him playing for that team. No QB would have been successful.

Rosen was 3-10 as a starter. Eli Manning has a better OL, RB, WR1, WR2, WR3 and TE. Yet he went 5-11.

This is what PFF said about the Cardinals OL.
Quote:
The Cardinalsí offensive line was in shambles when fully healthy, so it didnít help that only rookie center Mason Cole was able to stay healthy for more than 600 snaps this season. 11 different offensive linemen played at least 100 snaps for the Cardinals this season, and not a single one played well. Quarterback Josh Rosen didnít have a chance.
RE: I submit  
Tuckrule : 2/12/2019 7:45 am : link
In comment 14294066 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
nothing wrong here, give the Cardinals whatever it takes.


You donít have to be a douche if your incorrect or missused a phrase. The red flag on Rosen that you claim is non existent. New coach new regime new system he wants his own guy. Itís as simple as that. If Rosen was in this class he would be right there with Haskins. To give up a 6 to get him is a deal that DG should not pass up. Give me the guy with a season of experience in the nfl. Heís shown he can play and the low ceiling you claim is just your opinion. Nfl scouts think otherwise. So again, donít be sensitive and have a normal discussion. If someon disagrees with you donít become a sarcastic prick. Your better off just removing yourself from the keyboard.
RE: Rosen would work for me if it was next year's first  
Beer Man : 2/12/2019 7:48 am : link
In comment 14294085 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
That would be pretty good. The only reason to give them #6 is if you like Rosen better than all the QBs in this draft. I doubt that the Giants do.
IMO. Good move for the Giants, bad trade for the Cards. They had the worst team in the NFL in 2018, and have a good young QB. If they draft another good young QB, they need to get a return on Rosen this year.
I've already said its my opinion  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 7:49 am : link
and just because you don't think there aren't any red flags doesn't mean they aren't there. They could be the same ones that were there before he was drafted, who knows.
Did anybody watch a Cards game this year?  
bw in dc : 2/12/2019 7:49 am : link
Rosen had no chance. That oline played most of the year like they were drunk or suffered vertigo. I think it was easily the worst in the NFL.

Until Kingsbury fixes that disaster, even Murray and his scrambling, speed and quickness will pay a price.

RE: RE: Obviously  
section125 : 2/12/2019 7:50 am : link
In comment 14294084 UConn4523 said:
Quote:

I don't want to argue anymore but here's my thoughts. I would have been ok trading back for Rosen last year, felt his upside was limited by his concussions, attitude, and lack of mobility. BBI members who are locked in also reported that he wasn't even in the conversation.

Fast forward to this year I dont think he's any better of a prospect thank Haskins and definitely not Murray if the size checks out (it won't but I still like him more). I'm also ready to try and break the mold at QB and don't need/want Eli 2.0.

So yeah, do with that what you will. If Rosen is such a no brainer the OC in Arizona would make it work. I'm not about to bail them out with the #6 overall pick.


Your last paragraph is silly. If you are looking to run a RPO style offense, you cannot do it well with Rosen, no matter how much an OC wanted to make it work. While Rosen is much more mobile than Eli or Brady, why would you take a drop QB and make him run?

While I disagree with your assessment of Rosen and Haskins, your 2nd paragraph is the true crux of your not wanting Rosen. You want a different style QB. I won't disagree with you that a Russell Wilson/Pat Mahomes type would be my preferred QB at this point.

I am not buying that the new coaches in Arizona  
George from PA : 2/12/2019 7:51 am : link
Need a mobile QB....so it is ONLY a system fit issue...impossible.

How did they get hired?

"We can coach this team but we are not committing to Rosen"....that wouldnt fly.

I did not see much of Arizona, but only way this happens is if the owners in Arizona are also soured by Rosen.

And that would be a major Red Flag.
doubt this happens  
giants#1 : 2/12/2019 7:52 am : link
If DG/Shurmur liked Rosen (i.e. felt he was a potential franchise QB), they would've selected him last year.
Matt Miller tweet  
Beer Man : 2/12/2019 7:52 am : link
"Current conspiracy theory: Cardinals told Kyler Murray they'd draft him at No. 1 overall and trade Josh Rosen if he committed to football."
Matt Miller - ( New Window )
RE: Matt Miller tweet  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 7:53 am : link
In comment 14294096 Beer Man said:
Quote:
"Current conspiracy theory: Cardinals told Kyler Murray they'd draft him at No. 1 overall and trade Josh Rosen if he committed to football." Matt Miller - ( New Window )


Where there is smoke......
Chris Mara's post-draft comment about the QBs  
shyster : 2/12/2019 7:54 am : link
Quote:
Interesting - Chris Mara in speaking with Russo (re: the No. 2 pick): We liked the QBs, but the issue was we couldnít agree on which one. We all agreed on Barkley.[Schneier] (I wonder who each exec had as their QB1 and if anyone tried to push for him).


Doesn't really matter what any of us think of Rosen. What does Gettleman think? Did he like Rosen last year? And, if not, did anything happen to change his mind?

My guess is that the answers are "No" and "No".



the we in the room - ( New Window )
RE: I am not buying that the new coaches in Arizona  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 7:54 am : link
In comment 14294093 George from PA said:
Quote:
Need a mobile QB....so it is ONLY a system fit issue...impossible.

How did they get hired?

"We can coach this team but we are not committing to Rosen"....that wouldnt fly.

I did not see much of Arizona, but only way this happens is if the owners in Arizona are also soured by Rosen.

And that would be a major Red Flag.


Correct. Iíve been completely transparent. I donít want another statue and I donít buy that a new OC has this much power. I wouldnít want an OC who can only work one way.

Fine if you guys disagree but stop acting like itís some out of left field opinion.
RE: RE: Matt Miller tweet  
giants#1 : 2/12/2019 7:55 am : link
In comment 14294099 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14294096 Beer Man said:


Quote:


"Current conspiracy theory: Cardinals told Kyler Murray they'd draft him at No. 1 overall and trade Josh Rosen if he committed to football." Matt Miller - ( New Window )



Where there is smoke......


That doesn't make a lot of sense since Murray's also claimed to be participating in the combine. If he already has an assurance to go #1, why bother?
RE: RE: RE: Matt Miller tweet  
Beer Man : 2/12/2019 8:01 am : link
In comment 14294103 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294099 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 14294096 Beer Man said:


Quote:


"Current conspiracy theory: Cardinals told Kyler Murray they'd draft him at No. 1 overall and trade Josh Rosen if he committed to football." Matt Miller - ( New Window )



Where there is smoke......



That doesn't make a lot of sense since Murray's also claimed to be participating in the combine. If he already has an assurance to go #1, why bother?
True, but he didn't officially commit 100% to football until this last week. So that's probably where the Conspiracy Theory started. Even though it is all speculation, it rouses up BBI on an otherwise boring day of sports.
RE: RE: RE: Matt Miller tweet  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:01 am : link
In comment 14294103 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294099 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 14294096 Beer Man said:


Quote:


"Current conspiracy theory: Cardinals told Kyler Murray they'd draft him at No. 1 overall and trade Josh Rosen if he committed to football." Matt Miller - ( New Window )



Where there is smoke......



That doesn't make a lot of sense since Murray's also claimed to be participating in the combine. If he already has an assurance to go #1, why bother?


Maybe part of "committing to football" includes attending the combine
Rosen was injury risk/head case coming out last year  
YorkAveGiant : 2/12/2019 8:03 am : link
And now the team who drafted him #1, wants out.

And HE is the savior???

Good lord....

SMH...
RE: Chris Mara's post-draft comment about the QBs  
Beer Man : 2/12/2019 8:04 am : link
In comment 14294100 shyster said:
Quote:


Quote:


Interesting - Chris Mara in speaking with Russo (re: the No. 2 pick): We liked the QBs, but the issue was we couldnít agree on which one. We all agreed on Barkley.[Schneier] (I wonder who each exec had as their QB1 and if anyone tried to push for him).



Doesn't really matter what any of us think of Rosen. What does Gettleman think? Did he like Rosen last year? And, if not, did anything happen to change his mind?

My guess is that the answers are "No" and "No".

the we in the room - ( New Window )
The rumors I remember last year was that DG liked Baker, and PS liked Allen.
I don't think Rosen is worth the number 6  
wgenesis123 : 2/12/2019 8:05 am : link
If you want Rosen you trade down than offer your number one pick for Rosen. If you can't trade down, no Rosen.
RE: RE: I am not buying that the new coaches in Arizona  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:05 am : link
In comment 14294102 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294093 George from PA said:


Quote:


Need a mobile QB....so it is ONLY a system fit issue...impossible.

How did they get hired?

"We can coach this team but we are not committing to Rosen"....that wouldnt fly.

I did not see much of Arizona, but only way this happens is if the owners in Arizona are also soured by Rosen.

And that would be a major Red Flag.



Correct. Iíve been completely transparent. I donít want another statue and I donít buy that a new OC has this much power. I wouldnít want an OC who can only work one way.

Fine if you guys disagree but stop acting like itís some out of left field opinion.


Aren't we talking about Kingbury, the head coach?

Could it be that they see Murray as a generational talent?
That and the fact they could get a decent return on Rosen makes it plausible.

RE: I don't think Rosen is worth the number 6  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:07 am : link
In comment 14294115 wgenesis123 said:
Quote:
If you want Rosen you trade down than offer your number one pick for Rosen. If you can't trade down, no Rosen.


If he is worth trading for, he is worth #6.

Sure you try to negotiate the best deal possible but squabbling over #6 vs #10 vs #15 makes no sense.
RE: Chris Mara's post-draft comment about the QBs  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:09 am : link
In comment 14294100 shyster said:
Quote:


Quote:


Interesting - Chris Mara in speaking with Russo (re: the No. 2 pick): We liked the QBs, but the issue was we couldnít agree on which one. We all agreed on Barkley.[Schneier] (I wonder who each exec had as their QB1 and if anyone tried to push for him).



Doesn't really matter what any of us think of Rosen. What does Gettleman think? Did he like Rosen last year? And, if not, did anything happen to change his mind?

My guess is that the answers are "No" and "No".

the we in the room - ( New Window )


They liked him enough to have the owner have dinner with him. And the owner raved about the meeting.

Lol blind and dumb Rosen cultists  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 2/12/2019 8:09 am : link
He's worthless unwanted coach killer trash.
Cardinals  
Beer Man : 2/12/2019 8:11 am : link
would also take a $10.4M hit to their Salary Cap in dead money. But they do have over $47M in available space for 2019.
I think itís plausible  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 8:11 am : link
but still concerning.

Listen, if the Giants think Rosen is awesome than Iíd support it. But I doubt it. Apparently the only one even close to Barkley was Darnold which makes sense to me (add in Mayfield if he was a little taller). This isnít a no brainer though, Rosen rubs a lot of people the wrong way with how he carries himself and had several issues coming into the draft between that and concussions. Add in the fact that ďbattling it out with EliĒ isnít something I can ever see happening.
The Redskins are the no brained  
dep026 : 2/12/2019 8:14 am : link
They should trade with. With Smith never playing again.... he is cheap, young and the type of QB they should go after. I see the trade between skins and cards.
RE: RE: Chris Mara's post-draft comment about the QBs  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 8:15 am : link
In comment 14294118 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14294100 shyster said:


Quote:




Quote:


Interesting - Chris Mara in speaking with Russo (re: the No. 2 pick): We liked the QBs, but the issue was we couldnít agree on which one. We all agreed on Barkley.[Schneier] (I wonder who each exec had as their QB1 and if anyone tried to push for him).



Doesn't really matter what any of us think of Rosen. What does Gettleman think? Did he like Rosen last year? And, if not, did anything happen to change his mind?

My guess is that the answers are "No" and "No".

the we in the room - ( New Window )



They liked him enough to have the owner have dinner with him. And the owner raved about the meeting.


I donít recall reading about any other dinner engagements with other prospects last spring either.
what do you mean about that battling out with Eli line?  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:15 am : link
you think the team is afraid of bringing in legitimate competition for Eli?
dinner with rosen  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:16 am : link
Tisch raved about his table manners....lol


Giants co-owner raves about private meeting with Josh Rosen - ( New Window )
RE: The Redskins are the no brained  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 8:17 am : link
In comment 14294123 dep026 said:
Quote:
They should trade with. With Smith never playing again.... he is cheap, young and the type of QB they should go after. I see the trade between skins and cards.


You donít think Gettleman should throw his hat into the ring if by some chance this rumor has legs?
RE: what do you mean about that battling out with Eli line?  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 8:19 am : link
In comment 14294125 ron mexico said:
Quote:
you think the team is afraid of bringing in legitimate competition for Eli?


Itís never happened before. I think we can justify doing it now. Itís debatable how the team feels though.
RE: RE: The Redskins are the no brained  
dep026 : 2/12/2019 8:21 am : link
In comment 14294128 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14294123 dep026 said:


Quote:


They should trade with. With Smith never playing again.... he is cheap, young and the type of QB they should go after. I see the trade between skins and cards.



You donít think Gettleman should throw his hat into the ring if by some chance this rumor has legs?


Nope. Sixth pick is too much for him.
RE: RE: I don't think Rosen is worth the number 6  
bw in dc : 2/12/2019 8:23 am : link
In comment 14294117 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14294115 wgenesis123 said:


Quote:


If you want Rosen you trade down than offer your number one pick for Rosen. If you can't trade down, no Rosen.



If he is worth trading for, he is worth #6.

Sure you try to negotiate the best deal possible but squabbling over #6 vs #10 vs #15 makes no sense.


I donít see that. After they are drafted and start playing, most rookie QBs depreciate like new cars.

I like Rosen and understand that he played for a horrible team last year. But heís not worth a first round selection. There are still question marks. Fair value is probably a second.
If you trade down to 10 and 15 without picking up any  
wgenesis123 : 2/12/2019 8:25 am : link
extra picks I would agree, makes no sense. Why would you do that?
RE: RE: RE: The Redskins are the no brained  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 8:25 am : link
In comment 14294130 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294128 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 14294123 dep026 said:


Quote:


They should trade with. With Smith never playing again.... he is cheap, young and the type of QB they should go after. I see the trade between skins and cards.



You donít think Gettleman should throw his hat into the ring if by some chance this rumor has legs?



Nope. Sixth pick is too much for him.


I disagree. To me, Rosen is significantly better than any QB in this draft and might be better than any prospect (in a mediocre draft as a whole) available at 6. If we could also get back their second rounder, itís a complete no brainer in my opinion.
RE: RE: RE: I don't think Rosen is worth the number 6  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:27 am : link
In comment 14294131 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14294117 ron mexico said:


Quote:


In comment 14294115 wgenesis123 said:


Quote:


If you want Rosen you trade down than offer your number one pick for Rosen. If you can't trade down, no Rosen.



If he is worth trading for, he is worth #6.

Sure you try to negotiate the best deal possible but squabbling over #6 vs #10 vs #15 makes no sense.



I donít see that. After they are drafted and start playing, most rookie QBs depreciate like new cars.

I like Rosen and understand that he played for a horrible team last year. But heís not worth a first round selection. There are still question marks. Fair value is probably a second.


History shows thats not true at all. QBs value go up or hold steady if they can show they are even mildly capable. Look at what guys like Sam Bradford fetched. Even Teddy Bridgewater fetched a 3rd.
What makes this draft  
dep026 : 2/12/2019 8:27 am : link
Mediocre?

There are a lot of very good edge rushers and OL. The two position we are in dire need of?
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't think Rosen is worth the number 6  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 8:29 am : link
In comment 14294136 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14294131 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14294117 ron mexico said:


Quote:


In comment 14294115 wgenesis123 said:


Quote:


If you want Rosen you trade down than offer your number one pick for Rosen. If you can't trade down, no Rosen.



If he is worth trading for, he is worth #6.

Sure you try to negotiate the best deal possible but squabbling over #6 vs #10 vs #15 makes no sense.



I donít see that. After they are drafted and start playing, most rookie QBs depreciate like new cars.

I like Rosen and understand that he played for a horrible team last year. But heís not worth a first round selection. There are still question marks. Fair value is probably a second.



History shows thats not true at all. QBs value go up or hold steady if they can show they are even mildly capable. Look at what guys like Sam Bradford fetched. Even Teddy Bridgewater fetched a 3rd.


QBís play longer than other positions. Say we trade for Rosen. Are we going to complain that we ďonlyĒ had him for 14 years as opposed to 15??
Rosen was picked 10 last yr  
GiantsRage2007 : 2/12/2019 8:31 am : link
Now he's worth #6? After what he showed?

Logic says if Arizona wants to move on, that the trading team would have the leverage... it would begin at #10 overall and trend down for compensation... not up.

RE: What makes this draft  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 8:32 am : link
In comment 14294137 dep026 said:
Quote:
Mediocre?

There are a lot of very good edge rushers and OL. The two position we are in dire need of?


JonC even alluded to it as not strong. You have maybe 3 legit blue chip prospects (Bosa, Williams, and perhaps Allen). After that, the talent levels off.
RE: RE: What makes this draft  
dep026 : 2/12/2019 8:34 am : link
In comment 14294145 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14294137 dep026 said:


Quote:


Mediocre?

There are a lot of very good edge rushers and OL. The two position we are in dire need of?



JonC even alluded to it as not strong. You have maybe 3 legit blue chip prospects (Bosa, Williams, and perhaps Allen). After that, the talent levels off.


Well then why would Arizona trade away a blue chip player for a player in a mediocre draft? Haha
RE: RE: RE: What makes this draft  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 8:36 am : link
In comment 14294148 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294145 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 14294137 dep026 said:


Quote:


Mediocre?

There are a lot of very good edge rushers and OL. The two position we are in dire need of?



JonC even alluded to it as not strong. You have maybe 3 legit blue chip prospects (Bosa, Williams, and perhaps Allen). After that, the talent levels off.



Well then why would Arizona trade away a blue chip player for a player in a mediocre draft? Haha


Nobody said it would be a smart move by Arizona to take Murray and trade Rosen.
RE: RE: RE: What makes this draft  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:37 am : link
In comment 14294148 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294145 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 14294137 dep026 said:


Quote:


Mediocre?

There are a lot of very good edge rushers and OL. The two position we are in dire need of?



JonC even alluded to it as not strong. You have maybe 3 legit blue chip prospects (Bosa, Williams, and perhaps Allen). After that, the talent levels off.



Well then why would Arizona trade away a blue chip player for a player in a mediocre draft? Haha


because the would be getting what they see as a generational talent in Murray.

RE: RE: RE: RE: What makes this draft  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 8:38 am : link
In comment 14294151 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14294148 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14294145 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 14294137 dep026 said:


Quote:


Mediocre?

There are a lot of very good edge rushers and OL. The two position we are in dire need of?



JonC even alluded to it as not strong. You have maybe 3 legit blue chip prospects (Bosa, Williams, and perhaps Allen). After that, the talent levels off.



Well then why would Arizona trade away a blue chip player for a player in a mediocre draft? Haha



Nobody said it would be a smart move by Arizona to take Murray and trade Rosen.


In such an event, the NYG would be looking to capitalize on Arizonaís stupidity.
RE: Rosen was picked 10 last yr  
Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 8:38 am : link
In comment 14294143 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Now he's worth #6? After what he showed?

Logic says if Arizona wants to move on, that the trading team would have the leverage... it would begin at #10 overall and trend down for compensation... not up.


Last years draft was much stronger up top.

You can't judge him off of what he did last year. The worst supporting cast in the NFL and it isn't particularly close. Yet his record and Eli's wasn't very far off.
It comes down to how they ranked him  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 8:38 am : link
last year vs Haskins this year. Iím guessing itís extremely close and allows the Giants to take the QB that wouldnít have an issue sitting behind Eli. Adding Rosen behind Eli makes very little sense to me.
And we would be trading for what?  
dep026 : 2/12/2019 8:39 am : link
A QB a team doesnít want and not upgrading in positions in dire need? In which this draft is strong in??
RE: It comes down to how they ranked him  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 8:40 am : link
In comment 14294156 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
last year vs Haskins this year. Iím guessing itís extremely close and allows the Giants to take the QB that wouldnít have an issue sitting behind Eli. Adding Rosen behind Eli makes very little sense to me.


Again, why would he sit? Take sentimentality and loyalty out of the equation, which might be hard, what makes you certain Eli beats out Rosen?
And you guys arenít taking into account  
dep026 : 2/12/2019 8:41 am : link
That maybe the Giants donít want to deal with Rosenís attitude and injury risks. Or maybe they werenít ensnared with him to begin with.
RE: It comes down to how they ranked him  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:41 am : link
In comment 14294156 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
last year vs Haskins this year. Iím guessing itís extremely close and allows the Giants to take the QB that wouldnít have an issue sitting behind Eli. Adding Rosen behind Eli makes very little sense to me.


Well thats the great part, he wouldn't have to. Clearly if this trade happens they would move on from Eli.



RE: And you guys arenít taking into account  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:43 am : link
In comment 14294160 dep026 said:
Quote:
That maybe the Giants donít want to deal with Rosenís attitude and injury risks. Or maybe they werenít ensnared with him to begin with.


He made it through a year with a worse line than the Giants and the owners described him as "very charismatic young man"
RE: And we would be trading for what?  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 8:44 am : link
In comment 14294158 dep026 said:
Quote:
A QB a team doesnít want and not upgrading in positions in dire need? In which this draft is strong in??


QB isnít a dire need as well here?
Howís this scenario?
We get Rosen and 33 for our 6.
We then double up OL in the 2nd round.

I like it.
were they going to bad mouth him?  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 8:44 am : link
come on, that comment means nothing.
RE: were they going to bad mouth him?  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:45 am : link
In comment 14294165 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
come on, that comment means nothing.


it means at the very least that they thought enough of him as a football player to have both owners meet with him.
RE: RE: And we would be trading for what?  
dep026 : 2/12/2019 8:49 am : link
In comment 14294164 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14294158 dep026 said:


Quote:


A QB a team doesnít want and not upgrading in positions in dire need? In which this draft is strong in??



QB isnít a dire need as well here?
Howís this scenario?
We get Rosen and 33 for our 6.
We then double up OL in the 2nd round.

I like it.


Umm how can you trade for something that you canít guarantee will be there?
well that's great then  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 8:51 am : link
we aren't changing each other's minds, i don't really have a reason to continue to debate this. We will see what happens soon enough.
RE: RE: RE: And we would be trading for what?  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:52 am : link
In comment 14294169 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294164 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 14294158 dep026 said:


Quote:


A QB a team doesnít want and not upgrading in positions in dire need? In which this draft is strong in??



QB isnít a dire need as well here?
Howís this scenario?
We get Rosen and 33 for our 6.
We then double up OL in the 2nd round.

I like it.



Umm how can you trade for something that you canít guarantee will be there?


You really have a skill at finding any reason possible to not move on from Eli. Its quite remarkable.
RE: RE: RE: And we would be trading for what?  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 8:52 am : link
In comment 14294169 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294164 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 14294158 dep026 said:


Quote:


A QB a team doesnít want and not upgrading in positions in dire need? In which this draft is strong in??



QB isnít a dire need as well here?
Howís this scenario?
We get Rosen and 33 for our 6.
We then double up OL in the 2nd round.

I like it.



Umm how can you trade for something that you canít guarantee will be there?


Quality players along the OL are always present in the top half of the 2nd round. Itís about as close to a guarantee as there is.
RE: RE: RE: RE: And we would be trading for what?  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 8:54 am : link
In comment 14294173 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14294169 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14294164 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 14294158 dep026 said:


Quote:


A QB a team doesnít want and not upgrading in positions in dire need? In which this draft is strong in??



QB isnít a dire need as well here?
Howís this scenario?
We get Rosen and 33 for our 6.
We then double up OL in the 2nd round.

I like it.



Umm how can you trade for something that you canít guarantee will be there?



Quality players along the OL are always present in the top half of the 2nd round. Itís about as close to a guarantee as there is.


and either way, it clearly wouldn't be part of the trade.
LOL...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 8:54 am : link
Quote:
You really have a skill at finding any reason possible to not move on from Eli. Its quite remarkable.


Almost as skillful of those that find any reason possible to move on from Eli, even if it means making a shitty trade or forcing a pick.
RE: Lol blind and dumb Rosen cultists  
aimrocky : 2/12/2019 8:56 am : link
In comment 14294119 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
He's worthless unwanted coach killer trash.


Comments like this bring down the value of the site. This makes the poster look like a child.
Again,  
Big Blue '56 : 2/12/2019 8:57 am : link
if Shurmur would be ok with drafting a guy like Murray, Iím fine with it, despite what I think in general
RE: RE: RE: RE: And we would be trading for what?  
dep026 : 2/12/2019 8:57 am : link
In comment 14294172 ron mexico said:
Quote:


You really have a skill at finding any reason possible to not move on from Eli. Its quite remarkable.


Actually buddy... I was ready to move on last year so stop making up shit cause you donít know your head from your ass.

What I donít want to do is overpay and give up assets on rebuilding the team. This draft has the capabilities of filling our huge holes on ER and RT... two positions we desperately need.

So how about this. Shut the fuck up with this Eli nonsense already. Nobody here is arguing to keep him. We are arguing about not making bone headed decisions. Which is something you continue to want to make. And thatís what is remarkable.
RE: RE: RE: RE: And we would be trading for what?  
dep026 : 2/12/2019 8:58 am : link
In comment 14294173 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14294169 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14294164 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 14294158 dep026 said:


Quote:


A QB a team doesnít want and not upgrading in positions in dire need? In which this draft is strong in??



QB isnít a dire need as well here?
Howís this scenario?
We get Rosen and 33 for our 6.
We then double up OL in the 2nd round.

I like it.



Umm how can you trade for something that you canít guarantee will be there?



Quality players along the OL are always present in the top half of the 2nd round. Itís about as close to a guarantee as there is.


Why settle for the potential of quality when you have the chance of a potential blue chipper?
6th pick in a pretty weak draft  
UberAlias : 2/12/2019 9:02 am : link
Is not out of line for Rosen. The issue is you lose a contract year / him in your system, so Az would need to give something in return, IMO.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And we would be trading for what?  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 9:02 am : link
In comment 14294183 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294172 ron mexico said:


Quote:




You really have a skill at finding any reason possible to not move on from Eli. Its quite remarkable.



Actually buddy... I was ready to move on last year so stop making up shit cause you donít know your head from your ass.

What I donít want to do is overpay and give up assets on rebuilding the team. This draft has the capabilities of filling our huge holes on ER and RT... two positions we desperately need.

So how about this. Shut the fuck up with this Eli nonsense already. Nobody here is arguing to keep him. We are arguing about not making bone headed decisions. Which is something you continue to want to make. And thatís what is remarkable.


Rosen and 33 for 6 isnít a boneheaded decision in my opinion. Nobody knows what DG is planning in FA, which hasnít been mentioned here. Perhaps he doesnít completely shit the bed like he did last year?
Boss  
dep026 : 2/12/2019 9:05 am : link
I am not sure the Cards would give up their 2nd. They could find other trading partners without giving up that.
RE: LOL...  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 9:05 am : link
In comment 14294178 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


You really have a skill at finding any reason possible to not move on from Eli. Its quite remarkable.



Almost as skillful of those that find any reason possible to move on from Eli, even if it means making a shitty trade or forcing a pick.


Is that directed at me? If so you don't need to use the vague "those"

The reasons to move on are pretty concrete and not really far fetched. Age, recent performance and state of the team.

As for forcing a pick and bad trades, thats pretty subjective. Jets fans dont think they forced the pick. Haskins at 6 wouldn't be forcing the pick.

Trading the #6 for Rosen, #33 and $10 mil of prepaid signing bonus sounds like a fair deal to me.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And we would be trading for what?  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 9:09 am : link
In comment 14294183 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294172 ron mexico said:


Quote:




You really have a skill at finding any reason possible to not move on from Eli. Its quite remarkable.



Actually buddy... I was ready to move on last year so stop making up shit cause you donít know your head from your ass.

What I donít want to do is overpay and give up assets on rebuilding the team. This draft has the capabilities of filling our huge holes on ER and RT... two positions we desperately need.

So how about this. Shut the fuck up with this Eli nonsense already. Nobody here is arguing to keep him. We are arguing about not making bone headed decisions. Which is something you continue to want to make. And thatís what is remarkable.


yeah right, you are not arguing to keep him. Its just that every single other option just happens to be trash.
RE: Again,  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 9:13 am : link
In comment 14294182 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
if Shurmur would be ok with drafting a guy like Murray, Iím fine with it, despite what I think in general


Murry or Haskins? I cant see anyway they Giants take Murray.

I don't know whether  
Now Mike in MD : 2/12/2019 9:13 am : link
Rosen will be a great QB, but to dismiss him based on his first year seems very short sighted. Lots of rookie QBs struggle their first year. And his stats were much better than Eli's his first year and he had much worse personnel around him than Eli did his first year. Was Eli's 55 QBR his first year a predictor of his future? No. Than why should Rosen's 66 QBR?
RE: RE: LOL...  
CromartiesKid21 : 2/12/2019 9:13 am : link
In comment 14294195 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14294178 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:




Quote:


You really have a skill at finding any reason possible to not move on from Eli. Its quite remarkable.



Almost as skillful of those that find any reason possible to move on from Eli, even if it means making a shitty trade or forcing a pick.



Is that directed at me? If so you don't need to use the vague "those"

The reasons to move on are pretty concrete and not really far fetched. Age, recent performance and state of the team.

As for forcing a pick and bad trades, thats pretty subjective. Jets fans dont think they forced the pick. Haskins at 6 wouldn't be forcing the pick.

Trading the #6 for Rosen, #33 and $10 mil of prepaid signing bonus sounds like a fair deal to me.


A team trading for Rosen will be getting him for 1 million and change for most of his rookie deal and forgoing paying him his signing bonus. Having a franchise QB locked in for less than what your paying the Long Snapper is a serious advantage to building an overall better team
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And we would be trading for what?  
dep026 : 2/12/2019 9:16 am : link
In comment 14294199 ron mexico said:
Quote:

yeah right, you are not arguing to keep him. Its just that every single other option just happens to be trash.


Building a better OLine and getting an edge rusher is trash???

Great insight like usual. Donít ever change.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't think Rosen is worth the number 6  
bw in dc : 2/12/2019 9:19 am : link
In comment 14294136 ron mexico said:
Quote:


I donít see that. After they are drafted and start playing, most rookie QBs depreciate like new cars.

I like Rosen and understand that he played for a horrible team last year. But heís not worth a first round selection. There are still question marks. Fair value is probably a second.



History shows thats not true at all. QBs value go up or hold steady if they can show they are even mildly capable. Look at what guys like Sam Bradford fetched. Even Teddy Bridgewater fetched a 3rd.


I think, and keep me honest, the compensation for Bradford was driven by desperation. The Vikings were out in the cold when Bridgewater got spaghetti knee. So that was distorted by circumstances. And I think the comp for Bradfordís first trade to Philly did NOT involve a first rounder...

Bridgewater for a three made some sense. At least he played and had success getting his team to the playoffs.

What has Rosen done? Nothing yet. I watched a few Cards games this year off and one because I wanted to see him play. I liked what I saw when he wasnít getting plastered. But the resume is incomplete. So itís not even close for me - a second rounder tops.
My problem with Rosen is his history of concussions. But it didn't  
Ira : 2/12/2019 9:24 am : link
seem to come up last season. If the Giants are interested, maybe they can get him with this year's and next years 2nd round picks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And we would be trading for what?  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 9:24 am : link
In comment 14294215 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294199 ron mexico said:


Quote:



yeah right, you are not arguing to keep him. Its just that every single other option just happens to be trash.



Building a better OLine and getting an edge rusher is trash???

Great insight like usual. Donít ever change.


I'm clearly talking about the other QB options.

The real question here is do they like Rosen over Haskins  
BillT : 2/12/2019 9:27 am : link
They now probably have a choice of either with the highest pick of the QB needy teams. Both are similar type pocket passers. If they donít trade Jacksonville probably will rather than try and jump us to get Haskins.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't think Rosen is worth the number 6  
giants#1 : 2/12/2019 9:28 am : link
In comment 14294223 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14294136 ron mexico said:


Quote:




I donít see that. After they are drafted and start playing, most rookie QBs depreciate like new cars.

I like Rosen and understand that he played for a horrible team last year. But heís not worth a first round selection. There are still question marks. Fair value is probably a second.



History shows thats not true at all. QBs value go up or hold steady if they can show they are even mildly capable. Look at what guys like Sam Bradford fetched. Even Teddy Bridgewater fetched a 3rd.



I think, and keep me honest, the compensation for Bradford was driven by desperation. The Vikings were out in the cold when Bridgewater got spaghetti knee. So that was distorted by circumstances. And I think the comp for Bradfordís first trade to Philly did NOT involve a first rounder...

Bridgewater for a three made some sense. At least he played and had success getting his team to the playoffs.

What has Rosen done? Nothing yet. I watched a few Cards games this year off and one because I wanted to see him play. I liked what I saw when he wasnít getting plastered. But the resume is incomplete. So itís not even close for me - a second rounder tops.


Bridgewater helped his team get to the playoffs? Outside of starting the final game of the season, which they loss and had no bearing on anything, he threw a single pass.
If  
AcidTest : 2/12/2019 9:28 am : link
this is serious, then the Giants would have to offer #6 to have any chance of trading for Rosen, especially since rightly or wrongly, this QB class is perceived as weak. And even that might not be enough.

I am ambivalent about doing so. Rosen has beautiful mechanics and accuracy. He also had no chance in Arizona as many have noted, and his contract is cheap for the next few years. But it is a top 10 pick, and he has an injury history.

But it is probably moot, because I doubt DG would make that trade. I assume if they were going to do so, then it would happen before they have to pay Eli his $5 million roster bonus.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't think Rosen is worth the number 6  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 9:31 am : link
In comment 14294223 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14294136 ron mexico said:


Quote:




I donít see that. After they are drafted and start playing, most rookie QBs depreciate like new cars.

I like Rosen and understand that he played for a horrible team last year. But heís not worth a first round selection. There are still question marks. Fair value is probably a second.



History shows thats not true at all. QBs value go up or hold steady if they can show they are even mildly capable. Look at what guys like Sam Bradford fetched. Even Teddy Bridgewater fetched a 3rd.



I think, and keep me honest, the compensation for Bradford was driven by desperation. The Vikings were out in the cold when Bridgewater got spaghetti knee. So that was distorted by circumstances. And I think the comp for Bradfordís first trade to Philly did NOT involve a first rounder...

Bridgewater for a three made some sense. At least he played and had success getting his team to the playoffs.

What has Rosen done? Nothing yet. I watched a few Cards games this year off and one because I wanted to see him play. I liked what I saw when he wasnít getting plastered. But the resume is incomplete. So itís not even close for me - a second rounder tops.


Ok, you want some more examples?

Carson Palmer from Cincinnati to Oakland. Traded for 17th overall (Dre Kirkpatrick) and 2013 2nd rounder (Giovani Bernard) on October 18, 2011.

Jay Cutler (and 5th round pick) from Denver to Chicago. Traded for 18th overall pick (Robert Ayers), 3rd round pick (Mike Wallace), 2010 1st round pick (#11 Anthony Davis) and Kyle Orton, April 2, 2009.




History of Quarterbacks Traded for First Round Picks - ( New Window )
I don't think the takeaway..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 9:31 am : link
is cut and dried:

Quote:
I don't know whether
Now Mike in MD : 9:13 am : link : reply
Rosen will be a great QB, but to dismiss him based on his first year seems very short sighted. Lots of rookie QBs struggle their first year. And his stats were much better than Eli's his first year and he had much worse personnel around him than Eli did his first year. Was Eli's 55 QBR his first year a predictor of his future? No. Than why should Rosen's 66 QBR?


I keep seeing the logic that since Eli sucked his rookie year that other QB's sucking mean they will have a long and fruitful career.

The ones who wanted to pick Darnold keep using his poor year as some kind of bizarro evidence that he's going to be fine.

What last year showed about the rookie QB's is that we know little more about them going into this year than we did going into last year.

Comparing a 66QBR vs. a 55QBR means practically nothing if that 66QBR doesn't eventually lead to a long-term starting job that delivers success.
RE: If  
Pan-handler : 2/12/2019 9:34 am : link
In comment 14294241 AcidTest said:
Quote:
this is serious, then the Giants would have to offer #6 to have any chance of trading for Rosen, especially since rightly or wrongly, this QB class is perceived as weak. And even that might not be enough.

I am ambivalent about doing so. Rosen has beautiful mechanics and accuracy. He also had no chance in Arizona as many have noted, and his contract is cheap for the next few years. But it is a top 10 pick, and he has an injury history.

But it is probably moot, because I doubt DG would make that trade. I assume if they were going to do so, then it would happen before they have to pay Eli his $5 million roster bonus.


The great thing on Rosen is the Giants thoroughly scouted and interviewed him last year. And they have a whole year of NFL tape to see if they saw enough flashes despite poor talent around him (and possibly system too) to believe if he is a worthy successor to Eli. There will be alot more projection with the top of this class and the highest upside guy (Murray) is not the Giants prototype for what they like for a Qb size-wise.

Right now if they are OK with him character wise, I take him over this entire class (but I do like Haskins closely followed by Lock).
RE: I don't think the takeaway..  
Now Mike in MD : 2/12/2019 9:36 am : link
In comment 14294249 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is cut and dried:



Quote:


I don't know whether
Now Mike in MD : 9:13 am : link : reply
Rosen will be a great QB, but to dismiss him based on his first year seems very short sighted. Lots of rookie QBs struggle their first year. And his stats were much better than Eli's his first year and he had much worse personnel around him than Eli did his first year. Was Eli's 55 QBR his first year a predictor of his future? No. Than why should Rosen's 66 QBR?



I keep seeing the logic that since Eli sucked his rookie year that other QB's sucking mean they will have a long and fruitful career.

The ones who wanted to pick Darnold keep using his poor year as some kind of bizarro evidence that he's going to be fine.

What last year showed about the rookie QB's is that we know little more about them going into this year than we did going into last year.

Comparing a 66QBR vs. a 55QBR means practically nothing if that 66QBR doesn't eventually lead to a long-term starting job that delivers success.


I'm not saying Rosen's rookie year is somehow confirmation that he will have the same career as Eli or even a successful career. I'm just saying to dismiss Rosen as a long term prospect simply because he had a poor rookie season makes no sense, especially considering who he had to work with. If we had applied the same logic to Eli, we don't win two SBs. Rosen coming out was considered the most polished QB in the draft. The real question marks were character and health. Considering that he seemed to be a good citizen despite getting pummeled by a woeful OL, he partially answered the character question to my mind. Health? Who knows. But he didn't have any concussions and he held up physically better than Darnold.
RE: I don't think the takeaway..  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 9:36 am : link
In comment 14294249 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is cut and dried:



Quote:


I don't know whether
Now Mike in MD : 9:13 am : link : reply
Rosen will be a great QB, but to dismiss him based on his first year seems very short sighted. Lots of rookie QBs struggle their first year. And his stats were much better than Eli's his first year and he had much worse personnel around him than Eli did his first year. Was Eli's 55 QBR his first year a predictor of his future? No. Than why should Rosen's 66 QBR?



I keep seeing the logic that since Eli sucked his rookie year that other QB's sucking mean they will have a long and fruitful career.

The ones who wanted to pick Darnold keep using his poor year as some kind of bizarro evidence that he's going to be fine.

What last year showed about the rookie QB's is that we know little more about them going into this year than we did going into last year.

Comparing a 66QBR vs. a 55QBR means practically nothing if that 66QBR doesn't eventually lead to a long-term starting job that delivers success.


Thats not what people are saying at all.

People are saying that a shaky rookie year doesn't mean that they can't still have a great career.

Nice straw man though
Rosen played on th worst team in football, and mots of the time was on  
PatersonPlank : 2/12/2019 9:36 am : link
his back. WHy not give the #6 this year for him, he legitimately could be our franchise guy (not even a stretch). Many people wanted to use our #2 pick last draft on him, now he has one year experience under his belt. He is better than any QB in the 2019 draft, and possible better than any QB in 2020 too. I bet there are some people who think he is better than MAyfield and Darnold.

I think it would be great to give our #6 for him. I'd feel a lot better about this than our #6 for Haskins or Lock.
Somebody Posted This Thought The First Time This Trade Idea Came Up...  
Jim in Tampa : 2/12/2019 9:38 am : link
So it's not my original thought...

But how funny would it be if AZ wanted Murray, but felt they could get him lower in the 1st RD AND get a team (like the Giants) to overpay for Rosen with a 1st and an 2nd.

AZ takes a non-QB with the #1 overall (Bosa?)

The Giants knowing that AZ wants Murray takes him at 6 overall and holds AZ's feet to the fire forcing them to reduce their asking price.

In the end AZ gets both Bosa and Murray... and the Giants trade their #1 (and nothing more) for Rosen.
Straw man??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 9:40 am : link
Variations on that take are seen countless times. Even here.

Quote:
As for forcing a pick and bad trades, thats pretty subjective. Jets fans dont think they forced the pick. Haskins at 6 wouldn't be forcing the pick.


If Darnold turns out to be mediocre, the Jets not only forced the pick, but they also made a bad trade. If Haskins doesn't pan out, he most definitely will have been a forced pick.

The straw man is actually that we have to pick a QB now and if we don't, the season is toast.

Panic rarely results in success.
Ben Allbright  
Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 9:42 am : link
Just told me a very well placed source in Arizona told him they are still committed to Rosen. He thinks if Murray goes 1st overall it's due to Arizona trading the pick.
why the hell  
ryanmkeane : 2/12/2019 9:42 am : link
would the Cardinals do this? They took Rosen at #10, they had a horrific team, a horrific OL, he was the only bright spot for them at times last year
Rosen went 10th in last year's draft and, while he had to play with  
Ira : 2/12/2019 9:43 am : link
the league's worst ol, he hasn't added to his resume. The 6th pick is too much.
I would absolutely  
ryanmkeane : 2/12/2019 9:43 am : link
trade the #6 overall for Rosen, if the Cardinals would do that
RE: Straw man??  
Now Mike in MD : 2/12/2019 9:44 am : link
In comment 14294266 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Variations on that take are seen countless times. Even here.



Quote:


As for forcing a pick and bad trades, thats pretty subjective. Jets fans dont think they forced the pick. Haskins at 6 wouldn't be forcing the pick.



If Darnold turns out to be mediocre, the Jets not only forced the pick, but they also made a bad trade. If Haskins doesn't pan out, he most definitely will have been a forced pick.

The straw man is actually that we have to pick a QB now and if we don't, the season is toast.

Panic rarely results in success.


I for one am not saying this season is toast. I certainly think if we strengthen the OL, become a run centric team, and allow Eli time and to use play action more, this offense can be successful. It certainly was the second half of the season. However, at some point we do need Eli's replacement. I think we will be too good to be in a position to draft one of the better QBs in next year's draft and the year after. So if we don't get a QB this draft, we are looking to sign a FA, and unfortunately the NFL is littered with examples of team's overpaying marginal QBs in FA.
RE: Ben Allbright  
The_Boss : 2/12/2019 9:45 am : link
In comment 14294273 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Just told me a very well placed source in Arizona told him they are still committed to Rosen. He thinks if Murray goes 1st overall it's due to Arizona trading the pick.


Well so much for that.
RE: Straw man??  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 9:48 am : link
In comment 14294266 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Variations on that take are seen countless times. Even here.



Quote:


As for forcing a pick and bad trades, thats pretty subjective. Jets fans dont think they forced the pick. Haskins at 6 wouldn't be forcing the pick.



If Darnold turns out to be mediocre, the Jets not only forced the pick, but they also made a bad trade. If Haskins doesn't pan out, he most definitely will have been a forced pick.

The straw man is actually that we have to pick a QB now and if we don't, the season is toast.

Panic rarely results in success.


who said that if we don't pick a QB that the season will be lost?

Strawmans on top of strawmans....its like a strawman dog pile in here


I'm fine..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 9:48 am : link
with us drafting a QB.

Heck, I'd be fine with getting Rosen.

But we should only make those moves if the QB's a graded up high enough to warrant th pick or that they see something in Rosen worthy of trading for him.

What I'm saying is don't force the pick or the trade. Build a solid team. Then add the QB. If teams with two solid units or one dominant one can make the playoffs with Case Keenum, Blake Bortles, Lamar Jackson or Nick Foles, I'm pretty sure if we build the core to be strong, we can win with a mid-1st draft pick or a FA starter.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't think Rosen is worth the number 6  
bw in dc : 2/12/2019 9:55 am : link
In comment 14294248 ron mexico said:
Quote:


Ok, you want some more examples?

Carson Palmer from Cincinnati to Oakland. Traded for 17th overall (Dre Kirkpatrick) and 2013 2nd rounder (Giovani Bernard) on October 18, 2011.

Jay Cutler (and 5th round pick) from Denver to Chicago. Traded for 18th overall pick (Robert Ayers), 3rd round pick (Mike Wallace), 2010 1st round pick (#11 Anthony Davis) and Kyle Orton, April 2, 2009.


History of Quarterbacks Traded for First Round Picks - ( New Window )



Those aren't really examples that are pertinent - you know that. Those are apples to oranges.

You are adding QBs who produced at a high level in the League.
RE: RE: I don't think the takeaway..  
Pan-handler : 2/12/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14294259 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
In comment 14294249 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


is cut and dried:



Quote:


I don't know whether
Now Mike in MD : 9:13 am : link : reply
Rosen will be a great QB, but to dismiss him based on his first year seems very short sighted. Lots of rookie QBs struggle their first year. And his stats were much better than Eli's his first year and he had much worse personnel around him than Eli did his first year. Was Eli's 55 QBR his first year a predictor of his future? No. Than why should Rosen's 66 QBR?



I keep seeing the logic that since Eli sucked his rookie year that other QB's sucking mean they will have a long and fruitful career.

The ones who wanted to pick Darnold keep using his poor year as some kind of bizarro evidence that he's going to be fine.

What last year showed about the rookie QB's is that we know little more about them going into this year than we did going into last year.

Comparing a 66QBR vs. a 55QBR means practically nothing if that 66QBR doesn't eventually lead to a long-term starting job that delivers success.



I'm not saying Rosen's rookie year is somehow confirmation that he will have the same career as Eli or even a successful career. I'm just saying to dismiss Rosen as a long term prospect simply because he had a poor rookie season makes no sense, especially considering who he had to work with. If we had applied the same logic to Eli, we don't win two SBs. Rosen coming out was considered the most polished QB in the draft. The real question marks were character and health. Considering that he seemed to be a good citizen despite getting pummeled by a woeful OL, he partially answered the character question to my mind. Health? Who knows. But he didn't have any concussions and he held up physically better than Darnold.


He had probably the least favorable situation in the entire NFL from a Qb standpoint. Horrible offensive line, not great WRs , potentially weak offensive system/coaching. Despite all that he still flashed skills and tremendous accuracy and ability to read a defense at times. Put him in the right situation he probably has a Goff like jump to his second season.
Murray is a poor man's version of Michael Vick. He will run around  
SterlingArcher : 2/12/2019 9:57 am : link
a lot and the talking heads will have a white out but he will end up like Vick, a loser.
RE: I'm fine..  
Now Mike in MD : 2/12/2019 9:58 am : link
In comment 14294288 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
with us drafting a QB.

Heck, I'd be fine with getting Rosen.

But we should only make those moves if the QB's a graded up high enough to warrant th pick or that they see something in Rosen worthy of trading for him.

What I'm saying is don't force the pick or the trade. Build a solid team. Then add the QB. If teams with two solid units or one dominant one can make the playoffs with Case Keenum, Blake Bortles, Lamar Jackson or Nick Foles, I'm pretty sure if we build the core to be strong, we can win with a mid-1st draft pick or a FA starter.


Agreed 100 percent. I don't think the Giants need a Top 10 QB with SB as the centerpiece. Get the OL together. Build a strong D. Have the QB as a complimentary piece
RE: Murray is a poor man's version of Michael Vick. He will run around  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 9:59 am : link
In comment 14294309 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
a lot and the talking heads will have a white out but he will end up like Vick, a loser.


He plays nothing like Vick. Black, runs, definitely Vick.
RE: I'm fine..  
Pan-handler : 2/12/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14294288 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
with us drafting a QB.

Heck, I'd be fine with getting Rosen.

But we should only make those moves if the QB's a graded up high enough to warrant th pick or that they see something in Rosen worthy of trading for him.

What I'm saying is don't force the pick or the trade. Build a solid team. Then add the QB. If teams with two solid units or one dominant one can make the playoffs with Case Keenum, Blake Bortles, Lamar Jackson or Nick Foles, I'm pretty sure if we build the core to be strong, we can win with a mid-1st draft pick or a FA starter.


QB is one of the tougher positions to find and are at a heavy premium. If we have the opportunity to get our QB of the future with our #6 pick either via trade or drafting him outright now is the time to do it. We passed up some potentially pretty good ones lastt year and now Eli is a year older and on the last year of his contract.

We are an OL or two away from a very strong offense. We hopefully can use FA to shape the D with players that fit Bettcher's vision. Vernon likely to be let go if I had to guess. Never really lived up to the contract, getting older and somewhat injury prone. Vets also wont have the rookie learning curve. Lots of DEs potentially available in FA and some good LBs too.
But I do agree Fatman  
Pan-handler : 2/12/2019 10:06 am : link
it should not be forced.

But I do believe any of Foles, Rosen, Haskins or Lock are guys you can win a Super Bowl with (or eventually win with). Therefore worth the money and/or top pick.
FMIC  
ryanmkeane : 2/12/2019 10:07 am : link
i think most agree with you, BUT the main problem I continue to see and what most aren't talking about...is if we pass again this year, there's no guarantee that we will have a top 10 pick. I'm not saying that just going BPA is the wrong strategy...it certainly should be the case when you're picking this high. However, when you have an old QB who is pretty close to being washed up, AND you passed on the good QB class last year, the narrative changes. We can't just continue to ignore the most important position in all of sports just because we think we can get a really good defensive player. QB trumps everything, and the longer we wait to address it, the worse off we will be. We will eventually become desperate to the point of trading away our future assets and #1 picks.

We could have a high pick in 2020 if we suck, but it could also be in the teens or 20s, in which case, then we are talking about severely mortgaging the future for the 2020 QB.

We have the 6th pick now. We can either take a QB here, or trade up a few slots which would not take a 1st in all likelihood (unless we moved all the way up to #1). We know what our situation is now, and that there probably QBs that we could target with our selection here. It would be really dumb, in my opinion, to take a defensive end instead of a really good QB prospect.
*there are probably  
ryanmkeane : 2/12/2019 10:09 am : link
2 QBs we could target* i meant to say
QB's are..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 10:09 am : link
at a premium, but if you miss on a QB while passing up assets that improve the rest of the team, it puts you in a death spiral.

If you trade up to get a guy and he fails, you've just sunk time into seeing the guy fail, lost the opportunity to improve in other areas, and have to go back to the drawing board.

Picking a QB really only pays in dividends if you pick the right one.
Trying to compare Eli's rookie year in 2004 to  
Zeke's Alibi : 2/12/2019 10:09 am : link
rookies today is apples and oranges. The game completely different and is set up for these guys to succeed. Eli also came in and played 6 top 10 defenses in his first 6 games when you could still play defense.
And ryan..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 10:11 am : link
even picking in the mid teens or early 20's doesn't preclude us from being able to draft a QB.

We've seen quite a few drafts where the guy picked there is better than the ones teams fall in love with at the top of the draft.
Fat Man  
ryanmkeane : 2/12/2019 10:14 am : link
everyone keeps saying "if you take a QB high, and he fails, then you really are in trouble..."

Obviously yes, that is the case. But you have to take risks and you have to get a stud QB if you have conviction on him. If he ends up sucking...well....that could happen. It could happen with any player. If every team thought this way, nobody would ever take a QB high. Everyone keeps making excuses for not taking a QB instead of just taking a QB! It's getting ridiculous. We are never going to find the absolutely perfect QB prospect.
RE: QB's are..  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 10:14 am : link
In comment 14294328 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
at a premium, but if you miss on a QB while passing up assets that improve the rest of the team, it puts you in a death spiral.

If you trade up to get a guy and he fails, you've just sunk time into seeing the guy fail, lost the opportunity to improve in other areas, and have to go back to the drawing board.

Picking a QB really only pays in dividends if you pick the right one.


Is it really any different from missing on any first round pick?

This team is where it, partly because we whiffed on Flowers, and to a slightly lesser extent, Apple
RE: And ryan..  
ryanmkeane : 2/12/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14294333 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
even picking in the mid teens or early 20's doesn't preclude us from being able to draft a QB.

We've seen quite a few drafts where the guy picked there is better than the ones teams fall in love with at the top of the draft.

That's true...but in today's NFL, the cost to trade up is really high, and teams don't like risking to wait around for that QB to fall to them. For example...let's say our pick next year is 16. You think Gettleman is going to sit and wait especially if we passed on the QBs this year?
If we pass on a QB  
ryanmkeane : 2/12/2019 10:18 am : link
again they better have a concrete plan to address it, because it's getting to the point where we are becoming a punchline for continuing to put Eli out there. It's getting embarrassing, something I never thought possible 5-6 years ago.
Yes..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 10:21 am : link
you have to take risks, but the point that is often lost is that having strong units (or in essence drafting good players regardless of the position) makes the team stronger.

Every year, half the playoff teams rotate in and out. And even the great QB's (except for Brady) miss the postseason sometimes. Rivers missed the playoffs 7 out of 8 years. Brees missed the playoffs 3 out of 4 while the team had a historically bad D. Cam Newton misses the playoffs as much as he makes them. This past season, 7 out of the top 8 highest paid QB's missed the playoffs.

Eli's ending his run, but a strong team will help mitigate that transition regardless of who teh QB is. When Romo went down, Prescott was able to still take the team to the playoffs, not because he's a great QB, but because they have the best OL. Bortles rode a suffocating D to the AFC Championship game. Case Keenum took the Vikings there. Pretty much any QB in Andy Reid's system gets them there and then quickly exits.

What we have is an aging QB, but we also have a pretty bad team.
RE: RE: Yes, huge red flag  
djm : 2/12/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14294061 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14294056 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


itís fine if you want to look at everything as a positive but anyone dumping a top pick, at QB no less should at least raise concern. But hey letís ignore that and give them the 6th overall pick, make him nice and happy sitting on the bench in 2019, and then hope heís good enough in the next 2 years after to pay him.

Rosen is fine. Iíd take him but not at that price. If the Dolphins want to blow their load for him go right ahead. IMO his ceiling just isnít big enough.



Rosen would start week 1. If Eli is still around you have an open competition. If you remove loyalty and sentimentality from the equation, which I realize is hard at ďJints CentralĒ, Rosen likely beats Eli out.


Likely beats out Eli? Oh really?
RE: I would not trade a first rounder for Rosen  
Ssanders9816 : 2/12/2019 10:33 am : link
In comment 14294050 Oscar said:
Quote:
The Cards are stuck in this situation and would have to dump him. I would offer the second rounder and maybe a lower pick but thats it.


Bingo, if the Giants give up #6 for Rosen they are the worst franchise in sports. But itís not happening because Murray isnít going #1
RE: Did anybody watch a Cards game this year?  
djm : 2/12/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14294091 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Rosen had no chance. That oline played most of the year like they were drunk or suffered vertigo. I think it was easily the worst in the NFL.

Until Kingsbury fixes that disaster, even Murray and his scrambling, speed and quickness will pay a price.


I find it interesting the leeway you extend to rosen because of the OL issues he was saddled with.
Rosen  
Archer : 2/12/2019 10:35 am : link
This could be a very easy decision for the Giants
How often do you get to evaluate a years worth of game film on a player like this ?
The Giants will know with more certainty if they think that Rosen has the ability to become their QB of the future

If the answer is positive then the Giants should make a deal
The economics are excellent
The CAP impact is minimal itís like getting a first round pick for third round dollars

RE: RE: Did anybody watch a Cards game this year?  
Now Mike in MD : 2/12/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14294368 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14294091 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Rosen had no chance. That oline played most of the year like they were drunk or suffered vertigo. I think it was easily the worst in the NFL.

Until Kingsbury fixes that disaster, even Murray and his scrambling, speed and quickness will pay a price.




I find it interesting the leeway you extend to rosen because of the OL issues he was saddled with.


Interesting or ironic? The problem is bw has made it abundantly clear he does not like and has never liked Eli because of the way he handled the draft. It's difficult to believe that this does not color all of his opinions on this issue
RE: Yes..  
Lambuth_Special : 2/12/2019 10:52 am : link
Quote:
When Romo went down, Prescott was able to still take the team to the playoffs, not because he's a great QB, but because they have the best OL. Bortles rode a suffocating D to the AFC Championship game. Case Keenum took the Vikings there.


Why should the Giants aspire to any of these low-ceiling team building examples?
What are the..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 10:58 am : link
high-ceiling team building examples?

The Pats, Steelers and Seahawks, perhaps?

which by the way, two of those teams are starting QB's not drafted in the 1st round.
RE: What are the..  
giants#1 : 2/12/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14294396 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
high-ceiling team building examples?

The Pats, Steelers and Seahawks, perhaps?

which by the way, two of those teams are starting QB's not drafted in the 1st round.


Draft round only matters for the players' first contract. Those 3 teams pay their QBs top $$ (though in TBs case much of it is under the table). GB should be in that mix too since it took an AR injury to keep them out of the postseason last year.
RE: What are the..  
giants#1 : 2/12/2019 11:07 am : link
In comment 14294396 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
high-ceiling team building examples?

The Pats, Steelers and Seahawks, perhaps?

which by the way, two of those teams are starting QB's not drafted in the 1st round.


And while they haven't seen the same sustained success, I'd put the Saints and Colts as "high-ceiling" teams too. Brees/Luck can absolutely carry their teams to the SB like Eli did twice.

Dak (Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins) needs to play turnover free and ride the D/running game. Much less margin for error with a QB like that.
RE: What are the..  
Lambuth_Special : 2/12/2019 11:15 am : link
In comment 14294396 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
high-ceiling team building examples?

The Pats, Steelers and Seahawks, perhaps?

which by the way, two of those teams are starting QB's not drafted in the 1st round.


It's not about what round they are drafted, it's about not settling for adequate QB play. Hell, I'm halfway on the Stidham bandwagon if the Giants want a latter round QB.

And yes, those three teams you listed, along with the Chiefs, Colts, and Rams (though I don't love Goff), have higher ceilings, because having a great QB provides more sustainable year-to-year offensive performance.

You probably..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 11:18 am : link
want to give the Colts and Rams more than one or two years of decent play first.

I'm talking about sustained success. Goff is an interesting case. Will he elevate the Rams or will he rest and fall on the talent level around him.

I'm pointing out the rounds of Wilson and Brady because it seems to be taken as fact here that if we don't draft a QB high in the 1st round, and likely have to trade up to do so, we can't be successful.
RE: Somebody Posted This Thought The First Time This Trade Idea Came Up...  
Jay in Toronto : 2/12/2019 11:41 am : link
In comment 14294263 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
So it's not my original thought...

But how funny would it be if AZ wanted Murray, but felt they could get him lower in the 1st RD AND get a team (like the Giants) to overpay for Rosen with a 1st and an 2nd.

AZ takes a non-QB with the #1 overall (Bosa?)

The Giants knowing that AZ wants Murray takes him at 6 overall and holds AZ's feet to the fire forcing them to reduce their asking price.

In the end AZ gets both Bosa and Murray... and the Giants trade their #1 (and nothing more) for Rosen.


Or for Bosa????
RE: What are the..  
twostepgiants : 2/12/2019 11:50 am : link
In comment 14294396 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
high-ceiling team building examples?

The Pats, Steelers and Seahawks, perhaps?

which by the way, two of those teams are starting QB's not drafted in the 1st round.


The Pats had Drew Bledsoe whom they took with the #1 pick in Draft and then signed to the largest contract in NFL History over 100 million dollars when they drafted Tom Brady in the 6th round

The Seahawks had just signed Matt Flynn in free agency to a 3 yr 21 mil deal contract which was pretty good money at the time. He was pretty well thought of then as Rodgers back up and he was coming to Seattle to be the man when they drafted Wilson in the 3rd round

The point being- neither the Pats nor the Seahawks made drafting mid to low rd QBs their plan. They had other irons in the fire and their lower round risks them paid off and knocked the other guys out of the picture.

The Steelers had the Kordell Stewartís, Tommy Maddoxís and Kent Grahamís of the world before they finally took the risk on a high end QB in Big Ben at 12 and low and behold moved into a team that couldnít win to a perennial contender and a team that won 2 SBs and went to a 3rd.
And..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 11:55 am : link
prior to that, the Steelers went to the playoffs 6 years in a row with O'Donnell, Tomczak and Stewart:

Quote:
The Steelers had the Kordell Stewartís, Tommy Maddoxís and Kent Grahamís of the world before they finally took the risk on a high end QB in Big Ben at 12 and low and behold moved into a team that couldnít win to a perennial contender and a team that won 2 SBs and went to a 3rd.


Even Ben hasn't made the playoffs 6 years in a row.

By the way, the Steelers D has been ranked in the Top 5 NINE times in Ben's career. Being ranked #1 by yards and points FIVE times!!
RE: RE: Did anybody watch a Cards game this year?  
bw in dc : 2/12/2019 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14294368 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14294091 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Rosen had no chance. That oline played most of the year like they were drunk or suffered vertigo. I think it was easily the worst in the NFL.

Until Kingsbury fixes that disaster, even Murray and his scrambling, speed and quickness will pay a price.




I find it interesting the leeway you extend to rosen because of the OL issues he was saddled with.


He's a rookie. I expect more from Eli despite the OL struggles. He's a 15 year veteran.

And I'm likely one of the few on this board who thinks 30-40% of Eli's sacks are on him, and not on the line. Eli's fastball, if you will, has always been his ability to read defenses. I think he's lost some MPH on that fastball and doesn't read defenses as well as he used to. So that's leading to more indecision; and, therefore, more sacks.
Hmmm.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 12:31 pm : link
so the stat that he's being contacted quicker than any other QB has to do with his decision making??

Quote:
So that's leading to more indecision; and, therefore, more sacks.


Interesting
RE: You probably..  
giants#1 : 2/12/2019 12:33 pm : link
In comment 14294416 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
want to give the Colts and Rams more than one or two years of decent play first.

I'm talking about sustained success. Goff is an interesting case. Will he elevate the Rams or will he rest and fall on the talent level around him.

I'm pointing out the rounds of Wilson and Brady because it seems to be taken as fact here that if we don't draft a QB high in the 1st round, and likely have to trade up to do so, we can't be successful.


Colts had plenty of sustained success before Luck's injuries and unsurprisingly returned to the postseason this year with a healthy Luck.
And I'm likely one of the few on this board who thinks 30-40% of Eli's  
Dnew15 : 2/12/2019 12:34 pm : link
sacks are on him"
I'll take the over on that. My man Eli is playing 2 hand touch back there.
Josina Anderson  
AcesUp : 2/12/2019 12:37 pm : link
Seems to be plugged in on the Player/Agent side more than in personnel. I'd take it with a grain of salt. She's the one that fired up the OBJ trade rumors last year and seemed to be their media mouthpiece. I think her sources are the Murray camp.
RE: Hmmm.  
Now Mike in MD : 2/12/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14294515 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so the stat that he's being contacted quicker than any other QB has to do with his decision making??



Quote:


So that's leading to more indecision; and, therefore, more sacks.



Interesting


Maybe my memory is going as I grow older but I seem to recall quite a few jail break sacks.

Also, FMIC don't forget he lead in that category despite significantly improve line play the second half of the season
could all be a smokescreen but...  
Mike in St. Louis : 2/12/2019 12:39 pm : link
Cards' president/owner says no Murray at #1...

"Cardinals president Michael Bidwill shot down speculation about the team selecting Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick.


Considering new coach Kliff Kingsbury said he would select Murray "with the first pick in the draft, if I could" when he was still at Texas Tech back in October, the speculation linking Murray to the Cardinals is fair, but Bidwill clearly knocked it down. "Thereís always a lot of speculation that turns out to not be true," Bidwill said. "But moving forward, weíre going to continue to build this team and build around the foundation that we have." Bidwill also said he is not worried about the speculation affecting Josh Rosen, the No. 10 overall pick last year. The Cardinals might not draft him, but it would be a surprise if Murray falls out of the top-15."
Again..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 12:40 pm : link
this tends to get overstated:

Quote:
Colts had plenty of sustained success before Luck's injuries


Prior to him missing the season, the Colts made the playoffs 3 seasons and missed the playoffs 2 seasons. Is that really sustained?
RE: Again..  
giants#1 : 2/12/2019 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14294529 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
this tends to get overstated:



Quote:


Colts had plenty of sustained success before Luck's injuries



Prior to him missing the season, the Colts made the playoffs 3 seasons and missed the playoffs 2 seasons. Is that really sustained?


He started the first 48 games of his career and made the postseason all 3 seasons. Year 4, he missed 2 games with a shoulder injury and then suffered a lacerated kidney and partially torn ab muscle and missed the remainder of the season.

2016 is the only "full" season he played (missed 1 game due to a concussion) in which the Colts missed the postseason. And he played that entire season with a lingering shoulder injury that required surgery and subsequently cost him the 2017 season.

So yes, the Colts with a healthy Luck had sustained success.
In Year 4..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 12:46 pm : link
Luck was 2-5 as a starter and the Colts were on track to finish out of the playoffs.

Again - the sustained success is overstated
RE: could all be a smokescreen but...  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 12:48 pm : link
In comment 14294528 Mike in St. Louis said:
Quote:
Cards' president/owner says no Murray at #1...

"Cardinals president Michael Bidwill shot down speculation about the team selecting Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick.


Considering new coach Kliff Kingsbury said he would select Murray "with the first pick in the draft, if I could" when he was still at Texas Tech back in October, the speculation linking Murray to the Cardinals is fair, but Bidwill clearly knocked it down. "Thereís always a lot of speculation that turns out to not be true," Bidwill said. "But moving forward, weíre going to continue to build this team and build around the foundation that we have." Bidwill also said he is not worried about the speculation affecting Josh Rosen, the No. 10 overall pick last year. The Cardinals might not draft him, but it would be a surprise if Murray falls out of the top-15."


Its much more likely this is true than the original report has any validity.

RE: In Year 4..  
giants#1 : 2/12/2019 12:52 pm : link
In comment 14294533 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Luck was 2-5 as a starter and the Colts were on track to finish out of the playoffs.

Again - the sustained success is overstated


Didn't he start this year 2-5? He also hurt his shoulder in week 3 at which point they were 1-2.

Keep grasping at straws.
RE: Hmmm.  
bw in dc : 2/12/2019 12:53 pm : link
In comment 14294515 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so the stat that he's being contacted quicker than any other QB has to do with his decision making??



Quote:


So that's leading to more indecision; and, therefore, more sacks.



Interesting


I think Eli's decision making is definitely in play and can skew that stat - yes.

At the same time, that stat may also reflect why it's more important than ever to get a younger, more athletic QB. Improvisation is an asset that this team absolutely needs. And Eli is the complete antithesis of that...
If Gettleman  
mrvax : 2/12/2019 12:57 pm : link
was high on Rosen, he'd have been taken over Barkley. Ain't gunna happen.
Grasping at straws??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 12:58 pm : link
I'm simply pointing out the facts:

Quote:
Didn't he start this year 2-5? He also hurt his shoulder in week 3 at which point they were 1-2.

Keep grasping at straws.


the Colts were 2-5 in his 7 starts in 2015.

Is that grasping at straws or hoping that they'd overcome the traditional less than 5% odds to make the playoffs after starting 2-5??
Sustained Success  
Lambuth_Special : 2/12/2019 12:58 pm : link
Doesn't have to be defined as making the playoffs every year.

It just gives your team a better chance of making the playoffs every year than a journeyman QB, since team defense is less reliable year-to-year.

On top of that, a great QB increases your odds of making a deep playoff run.

How many journeymen QBs have won superbowls during the last 20 years? Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, and Nick Foles basically.

Obviously, the idea isn't that you de-emphasize defense and hope that a great offense carries you, but that you establish a great offense, centered on the QB, and hope you can capitalize on the years that your defense is upper echelon.
Favre Went in the 2nd, Following Year Dealt for a 1st  
Giants38 : 2/12/2019 1:29 pm : link
This notion that you canít give up a higher pick for a guy the following year is ridiculous. GB did exactly that for Favre, and Iím pretty sure they ended up happy with their decision.

Ultimately, I still love Rosen and would deal the #6 for Rosen and AZís third round pick. That gets us back into the third and gets us our QB of the future and, really, the present, because we should start him immediately at that point.
RE: If Gettleman  
Ssanders9816 : 2/12/2019 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14294543 mrvax said:
Quote:
was high on Rosen, he'd have been taken over Barkley. Ain't gunna happen.


Thatís not true at all.
Rosen was so bad last year compared to Eliís 2017 season let alone 18  
djm : 2/12/2019 1:38 pm : link
Itís not even close to debate. Rosen was a rookie, so thatís a fair observation. Iím not trying to kill rosen at all....but...

I Just find it odd that some here are so quick to give the rookie a pass because of the issues surrounding him but Eliís efforts are deemed unacceptable.
RE: QB's are..  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/12/2019 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14294328 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
at a premium, but if you miss on a QB while passing up assets that improve the rest of the team, it puts you in a death spiral.

If you trade up to get a guy and he fails, you've just sunk time into seeing the guy fail, lost the opportunity to improve in other areas, and have to go back to the drawing board.

Picking a QB really only pays in dividends if you pick the right one.


PUHLEZE!!!

Death spiral? Holy Hyperbole Fatman!
Missing on a QB with your 1st pick is no worse than missing any other position with a high pick. There's still a stupid commitment from the FO to "make the pick work" even if he stinks to high heaven. See Flowers, Eric or Apple, Eli.

Now if you've traded a 2, and next year's 1 & 2 picks to move up for said QB, you've created a holler.

But Reese has been high missing picks for a couple of years now, and really came up with scratch from round 3 on in like forever.

But death spiral? LOL.
Hole  
BlueLou'sBack : 2/12/2019 1:58 pm : link
Not holler.
Rosen...yes please  
Thegratefulhead : 2/12/2019 2:06 pm : link
The arm talent is elite. I hope he is available and pray all we need to give up is #6. OBJ will luv luv luv him. It is out of our hands. Hopefully we find a way to make it happen, if he is actually available. Cut Eli, use the cash to get another solid OL...Maybe the RT from Carolina? Oof, Rosen, Barkley, OBJ and Engram...young and talented, add a dominating RT. Look the fuck out. Use the draft on Defense, we would be drafting into its strength. Can get a really player in the 30s on D...Obviously this is predicated on them liking Rosen, maybe they liked him a lot last year, just not as much as Barkley. I liked him a LOT more than Darnold.
Lou..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 2/12/2019 2:18 pm : link
Seriously??

Quote:
But death spiral? LOL.


Part of the reason we are in this position is because Reese missed on entire year's of drafts, including on first round picks.

When that happens at the QB position, look what happens.

Just look at failed QB's taken high. or just look at 2015. Drafting Winston hasn't panned out for the Bucs and they are treading water and still seem tied to keeping him, furthering their predicament.

Meanwhile when a Kevin White at WR doesn't pan out at #7 for the Bears, it may hurt them, but not to the extent wasting years on Winston will.

And that's with a QB with a modicum of success.

Jax spent 4 years trying to rely on Bortles - and hell, they go to a championship game and replace him the next season

The Redskins and Dolphins have been treading water since selecting RGIII and Tannehill. And just like we lament NYG's terrible run, if you don't think those teams are in a poor position, I don't know what to say.

A missed QB will put you in a hole for 4-5 years as the team muscles through their rookie contract.

Is that really disputable?
RE: RE: RE: Matt Miller tweet  
Leg of Theismann : 2/12/2019 2:20 pm : link
In comment 14294103 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294099 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 14294096 Beer Man said:


Quote:


"Current conspiracy theory: Cardinals told Kyler Murray they'd draft him at No. 1 overall and trade Josh Rosen if he committed to football." Matt Miller - ( New Window )



Where there is smoke......



That doesn't make a lot of sense since Murray's also claimed to be participating in the combine. If he already has an assurance to go #1, why bother?


If he didn't sign a contract saying he's the #1 overall pick then there's always going to be doubt. He might as well go to the combine he has nothing to lose and he's probably going to measure well in every category other than the size-related ones.
RE: Rosen was so bad last year compared to Eliís 2017 season let alone 18  
Big Rick in FL : 2/12/2019 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14294573 djm said:
Quote:
Itís not even close to debate. Rosen was a rookie, so thatís a fair observation. Iím not trying to kill rosen at all....but...

I Just find it odd that some here are so quick to give the rookie a pass because of the issues surrounding him but Eliís efforts are deemed unacceptable.


You find this odd? You find it odd that a 15 year vet making 22+ million a year is held to a different standard then a rookie QB playing on the worst offense in the league? The Giants are better in every facet of offense. RB, WR, TE and OL. Yet Eli sucked. You think Eli's numbers would be much different then Rosen if Eli played for the Cardinals?
RE: Lou..  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14294612 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Seriously??



Quote:


But death spiral? LOL.



Part of the reason we are in this position is because Reese missed on entire year's of drafts, including on first round picks.

When that happens at the QB position, look what happens.

Just look at failed QB's taken high. or just look at 2015. Drafting Winston hasn't panned out for the Bucs and they are treading water and still seem tied to keeping him, furthering their predicament.

Meanwhile when a Kevin White at WR doesn't pan out at #7 for the Bears, it may hurt them, but not to the extent wasting years on Winston will.

And that's with a QB with a modicum of success.

Jax spent 4 years trying to rely on Bortles - and hell, they go to a championship game and replace him the next season

The Redskins and Dolphins have been treading water since selecting RGIII and Tannehill. And just like we lament NYG's terrible run, if you don't think those teams are in a poor position, I don't know what to say.

A missed QB will put you in a hole for 4-5 years as the team muscles through their rookie contract.

Is that really disputable?


The redskins have had more success since drafting RG3 than we have in the same time frame.

They are in a tough spot now because of the injury to Cousins, but that could happen to any team and they could still easily have a better season than the Giants next year.
sorry injury to Smith  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 2:29 pm : link
not Cousins

I know how clerical errors trigger you
I  
AcidTest : 2/12/2019 2:39 pm : link
agree that missing on a QB high is worse than doing so for any other position. Christian Ponder and E.J. Manuel are two recent big misses. I also remember when the Bills traded a #1 and a #4 for Rob Johnson.

It's too early to make any conclusions about Darnold, Allen, Rosen, and Jackson. They were rookies on bad teams.

As far as this year, I'd prefer not to take a QB at #6, but I also think it's probably moot because I expect Haskins and Lock to be taken before our pick. I don't think DG will trade up for either. Nor should he.

Jones won't last until the second round. I also don't think the Giants will take Grier or Finley, although the latter is certainly more likely. That leaves another day three QB (Cornelius?) as a possibility, which will certainly elicit understandable groans from the BBI faithful. Or maybe a trade for Sloter.

I'm typically not a fan of trading out of the top 10, especially this year since we have a ton of day three picks. But it might well be a possibility. Extra draft capital next year could be used to move up to get a QB. This draft is loaded with OL and DL, which is just what we need. Maybe trade down and take Ford.
Correction:  
AcidTest : 2/12/2019 2:40 pm : link
Baltimore was not a bad team.
QB hell...fuck  
Thegratefulhead : 2/12/2019 2:56 pm : link
You are letting one stupid comment make you afraid of drafting a QB. If everyone in the franchise is convinced the guy is the next thing, you will still likely be wrong. You can't be afraid to play. This thing where we have to wait for the perfect prospect is crazy. Has the team been terrible?..yes it has. Has the QB played well...no he hasn't. Is he old, you bet he is. Contract.. in his last year 23 million with only 6 million dead if cut. It is time to try to find one. Yes, we might miss. So what? The guy that has everyone drooling for 2021 might miss. If your argument is that the front office sees no one in the draft or no one on anyone's else's roster that could be the guy I question the FO and coaching. We have to able to DEVELOP players, THAT is what has made NE into a perennial contender. DG needs to get someone for Shurmur to develop. Shurmur was hired for that very purpose. If either one them cannot do this, we have the wrong people in charge and THAT is bigger problem than the QB. Poor management hell is far worse than QB hell.
RE: I  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 3:07 pm : link
In comment 14294630 AcidTest said:
Quote:
agree that missing on a QB high is worse than doing so for any other position. Christian Ponder and E.J. Manuel are two recent big misses.


The Vikings have still won their division twice since drafting Ponder....hardly a death spiral.
RE: QB hell...fuck  
Leg of Theismann : 2/12/2019 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14294647 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
You are letting one stupid comment make you afraid of drafting a QB. If everyone in the franchise is convinced the guy is the next thing, you will still likely be wrong. You can't be afraid to play. This thing where we have to wait for the perfect prospect is crazy. Has the team been terrible?..yes it has. Has the QB played well...no he hasn't. Is he old, you bet he is. Contract.. in his last year 23 million with only 6 million dead if cut. It is time to try to find one. Yes, we might miss. So what? The guy that has everyone drooling for 2021 might miss. If your argument is that the front office sees no one in the draft or no one on anyone's else's roster that could be the guy I question the FO and coaching. We have to able to DEVELOP players, THAT is what has made NE into a perennial contender. DG needs to get someone for Shurmur to develop. Shurmur was hired for that very purpose. If either one them cannot do this, we have the wrong people in charge and THAT is bigger problem than the QB. Poor management hell is far worse than QB hell.


QB is the most important position on the field and if you miss on a top 10 pick QB it has lasting consequences. It's not about waiting for the perfect prospect, it's about making sure you get the right guy. There have been many failed 1st round QBs (more failures than successes) actually so it is smart to be careful with which one you take. You say we need to get someone for Shurmur to "develop"... he can't just develop anyone into a star starter, otherwise our future QB would already be on the roster and his name would be Kyle Lauletta. Positive thinking isn't going to win games, picking the right QB is. You can't just take a QB just to take one. We need to hit on this #6 pick regardless of the position. We missed on Flowers and Apple with top 10 picks and it set this franchise back half a decade.
I would take Kyler at 6  
NoGainDayne : 2/12/2019 3:35 pm : link
but I think the pass rushers are too strong to take ahead of him.

It is funny that in almost any sport you talk about the highest upside guys being graded the highest but you have incredibly high upside guys like Russel Wilson fall because of a singular physical characteristic. Even someone like Donald, just an absolute beast falls. Rodgers was a dynamite prospect that was graded down for being 6'2.

If Beckham or Cooks were taller they would have gone higher.

For some reason teams seem more willing to risk sub par stats than sub par height.

It's odd.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2019 3:58 pm : link

Bob McManaman
@azbobbymac

48m
Kliff Kingsbury in QB Josh Rosen amid Kyler Murray speculation: ďJosh is our guy.Ē
RE: .  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14294707 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:

Bob McManaman
@azbobbymac

48m
Kliff Kingsbury in QB Josh Rosen amid Kyler Murray speculation: ďJosh is our guy.Ē


I wouldn't expect him to say anything else.
RE: RE: .  
AcidTest : 2/12/2019 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14294711 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294707 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:



Bob McManaman
@azbobbymac

48m
Kliff Kingsbury in QB Josh Rosen amid Kyler Murray speculation: ďJosh is our guy.Ē



I wouldn't expect him to say anything else.


Agreed.
RE: QB hell...fuck  
twostepgiants : 2/12/2019 5:36 pm : link
In comment 14294647 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
You are letting one stupid comment make you afraid of drafting a QB. If everyone in the franchise is convinced the guy is the next thing, you will still likely be wrong. You can't be afraid to play. This thing where we have to wait for the perfect prospect is crazy. Has the team been terrible?..yes it has. Has the QB played well...no he hasn't. Is he old, you bet he is. Contract.. in his last year 23 million with only 6 million dead if cut. It is time to try to find one. Yes, we might miss. So what? The guy that has everyone drooling for 2021 might miss. If your argument is that the front office sees no one in the draft or no one on anyone's else's roster that could be the guy I question the FO and coaching. We have to able to DEVELOP players, THAT is what has made NE into a perennial contender. DG needs to get someone for Shurmur to develop. Shurmur was hired for that very purpose. If either one them cannot do this, we have the wrong people in charge and THAT is bigger problem than the QB. Poor management hell is far worse than QB hell.


Great post 👍🏻

You have coined Management Hell.
Listen  
ryanmkeane : 2/12/2019 6:36 pm : link
the overall consensus is that Haskins has a high floor in terms of his football acumen and character. If Giants think he won't be a bust and he'll be a really good NFL QB, then there is absolutely zero reason to not draft him if he's there.
Rosen...Seriously?  
CalZone : 2/13/2019 10:21 am : link
Unreal how some posters take Rosen seriously. The Giants need to make a *clear* upgrade at the QB position at some point, not bring in someone with a load of question marks, a limited skill set, and a shitty attitude.

I wouldn't be surprised if Arizona picks Murray. He's head and shoulders above Rosen. Regardless of Murray's size, his dynamic skill set is intriguing.
RE: Rosen...Seriously?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2019 10:47 am : link
In comment 14295252 CalZone said:
Quote:
The Giants need to make a *clear* upgrade at the QB position at some point, not bring in someone with a load of question marks, a limited skill set, and a shitty attitude.

I wouldn't be surprised if Arizona picks Murray. He's head and shoulders above Rosen. Regardless of Murray's size, his dynamic skill set is intriguing.


What's Rosen's "limited skill set"?
How did his "shitty attitude" manifest itself?
Is Murray another Lo Ball with a meddling father?  
Ivan15 : 2/13/2019 11:37 am : link
Or is he a more athletic Doug Flutie?

Flutie II would be okay, as his career numbers werenít bad. He just never got the chance to have ďhis teamĒ.

Murray may be better than Flutie but only in a less than traditional NFL offense.
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