...after all...
Hypothetically, IF Arizona takes Kyler Murray #1 overall, they’ll have to move Rosen. I would think this would have to take place after the draft. At that point, going into the summer and through the summer teams will be set at QB for the season, including the Giants. Why not, if this scenario plays out, trade for our QB of the future with a 2nd or 3rd round pick in the 2020 draft?
With this scenario, we can draft for our “infrastructure” and keep looking to win ASAP with Eli and company while landing his future replacement in Josh Rosen.
Just a thought. I’d like to hear what BBI thinks about this.
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In comment 14294258 bradshaw44 said:
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and keep Rosen. Let the two duke it out for at least a year and see if they struck lightening with one of them. They won't have too much tied up in them and they can see who's better and move the other guy later for picks after solidifying their QB spot for the next 5-10 years.
I think Rose would demand out if that's the case. On top of that Zona would willing start a QB controversy?
I actually think this could be a model for teams moving forward. If you're picking that high two years in a row, and the first guy didn't exactly light the world on fire why not take another shot at a golden ticket? Then let the competition commence in camp. These people are paid good money, whether it be to start, or to sit behind the better guy. Why limit yourself to one shot?
It's different if you have an established veteran at QB and THEN bring in a rookie first rounder. Neither guy has proven himself at this point. I'd rather have two guys to choose from then just hoping one figures it out.
You're also tying up a ton of guaranteed money into one position as well. That has to be a factor.
It's not as much as having 1 guy, but its still something that would be considered. Between the 2 you would have close to 50 Million guaranteed to one position.
They no way want to deal with a QB controversy mess by keeping Rosen.
Somehow, you'll survive :)
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In comment 14294268 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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In comment 14294258 bradshaw44 said:
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and keep Rosen. Let the two duke it out for at least a year and see if they struck lightening with one of them. They won't have too much tied up in them and they can see who's better and move the other guy later for picks after solidifying their QB spot for the next 5-10 years.
I think Rose would demand out if that's the case. On top of that Zona would willing start a QB controversy?
I actually think this could be a model for teams moving forward. If you're picking that high two years in a row, and the first guy didn't exactly light the world on fire why not take another shot at a golden ticket? Then let the competition commence in camp. These people are paid good money, whether it be to start, or to sit behind the better guy. Why limit yourself to one shot?
It's different if you have an established veteran at QB and THEN bring in a rookie first rounder. Neither guy has proven himself at this point. I'd rather have two guys to choose from then just hoping one figures it out.
You're also tying up a ton of guaranteed money into one position as well. That has to be a factor.
It's not as much as having 1 guy, but its still something that would be considered. Between the 2 you would have close to 50 Million guaranteed to one position.
But ideally only for a short time. Once you figure out who the guy is for the next decade you move the other guy. It's an investment for the future of the franchise. ROI is greater if you find the next Eli, Peyton, Brees, Brady,Rodgers Etc...
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I really don't know why there's now 3 threads all being posted on simultaneously on this topic. Pick one, the thought isn't original and was brought up months ago.
Somehow, you'll survive :)
I will. And i'll continue to point out duplicate threads. Everyone wants to be the smart guy yet they can't read a message board with the exact same content in the threads with the most hits so far today. Its odd and it takes away from an actual discussion by having people respond to the same thing 3 separate times.
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The Cards are not drafting Murray. The only thing they may do is trade back if they get a haul. Which they prob wont so they will stay at 1.
Says who? Did you say last year that Mayfield wouldnt go #1 overall? You have no idea.
I agree. I hate when posters state something with certainty when in fact there is none.
I know The Cards OL sucked, but Rosen didn't impress me on the field all that much. He's also got a huge ego issue and doesn't play all that well with others.
He's not the guy that takes you to the promised land but is probably the guy that takes you to a point just above mediocrity. He's the guy that holds your franchise back but shows just enough that makes you hope for just a bit more. IMO.
Rosen
Rd 2 Nasir Addrely
Rd 2a Garrett Bradbury
or
Haskins
Rd 2 Garrett Bradbury
don't get too locked into the draft picks, its only meant for color
Rosen's value has gone down since he was drafted - being in that rookie contract is valuable, and he's already put a year of that behind him. He's worth our second rounder, not our first.
Rosen's value has gone down since he was drafted - being in that rookie contract is valuable, and he's already put a year of that behind him. He's worth our second rounder, not our first.
This would only make sense if they cut Eli, which is why it wont happen.
But as to the value of his rookie contract, the 10 mil of bonus money Ari has to eat more than makes up for one lost year. And its not really a lost year as he got a ton of experience last year. Much more than any QB the Giants draft this year (if they draft one) will get.
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The Cards are not drafting Murray. The only thing they may do is trade back if they get a haul. Which they prob wont so they will stay at 1.
Says who? Did you say last year that Mayfield wouldnt go #1 overall? You have no idea.
Actually I did not say this. I had no Idea who the Browns wanted at 1 overall. Glad they took Mayfield and not Barkley.
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If they aren't done with Eli, then getting the next guy makes no sense. Just wait until next year's QB class (I expect we'll be picking top 10 again), and get the guy then.
Rosen's value has gone down since he was drafted - being in that rookie contract is valuable, and he's already put a year of that behind him. He's worth our second rounder, not our first.
This would only make sense if they cut Eli, which is why it wont happen.
But as to the value of his rookie contract, the 10 mil of bonus money Ari has to eat more than makes up for one lost year. And its not really a lost year as he got a ton of experience last year. Much more than any QB the Giants draft this year (if they draft one) will get.
That's a good point about the bonus. I hadn't taken that into account.
Regarding the lost year though, I don't necessarily mean a lost year of experience. Rather, a lost year of the Giants being able to take advantage of having a QB in the rookie deal.
But yeah if Eli is back this year it's moot.
personally i dont want to give up 6. he was drafted 10th, he didnt explode his first year so at most he is worth #10. if its me, i offer 2019 second rounder and a conditional 2020 pick (3-4 rounder)
that should get the job done. at 6, go defense. would stink to not have a second or 3rd this year, but we would have a franchise QB and a solid piece for the defense.
id do it if i was DG, at the very least explore the possibility
The question is when will this administration grow up and join the rest of football in 2019. DG mocked analytics last year and said football hasn’t changed since 1968. It is absurd thought. I wouldn’t be so upset about them potentially passing on a generational talent like Murray if they showed any forward thinking, but they don’t. It’s the same nonsense every year.
As far as Rosen, maybe he demonstrated the maturity they thought he lacked during a tough year in AZ. I have no idea.
As for the nincumpoop who compared Murray to Vick in a prior thread, it’s a ridiculous comparison. Vick was largely a runner who could throw deep but with little accuracy. Murray, alternatively, is a passer who can make all the throws and do so accurately. Guy is a stud. But we’ll pass him up because he’s not 6’4”. At this point, I’m not confident we’ll take a new QB until we get a new, competent regime in, one with a GM who doesn’t make an idiotic face and mock a reporter when asked about use of analytics.
But if Arizona called and offered Rosen and their 3rd rounder for the #6, I'd have to think about it. I haven't seen a ton of Haskins but what I've seen didn't blow me away.
It's ONE year folks...one more year...than you go nuts on O and QB.
1. You are very critical of the idea that the Giants may bring Eli back. If you aren’t a believer in DG/PS, isn’t this a good thing? Give the regime another year to win with Eli, but a clean slate in 2020 going forward if they don’t. I’d rather start GM/HC/QB on the same timeline.
2. I don’t think the Giants will be thinking about rookie contracts with QB’s. I think they are debating who can give the another Eli like run in the position. If Rosen fits that, I think they’ll pursue.
Rd 2 - Choose among OC Garret Bradbury, OG Chris Lindstrom, OC/OG Elgton Jenkins
Rd 4 and beyond along with free agency; go defense heavy plus you have Sam Beal en route
1. You are very critical of the idea that the Giants may bring Eli back. If you aren’t a believer in DG/PS, isn’t this a good thing? Give the regime another year to win with Eli, but a clean slate in 2020 going forward if they don’t. I’d rather start GM/HC/QB on the same timeline.
2. I don’t think the Giants will be thinking about rookie contracts with QB’s. I think they are debating who can give the another Eli like run in the position. If Rosen fits that, I think they’ll pursue.
1. I'd agree if I thought they'd fire Gettleman and Shurmur after a poor 2019. I'm not sure they would. Maybe Shurmur, but I'd be shocked if Gettleman is replaced. Further, on a personal level I don't want to see another indignity done to Eli's career when he retires with a sub-.500 record.
2. I agree here as well, and that is what's so depressing about the current state of affairs.
If AZ would give him up for our #2 this year I'd pull the trigger. But I think it would be much more likely AZ would ask for a 2020 #1 and I'm not so sure I'd do that.
The Giants have some good players but also some MAJOR gaping holes as well, especially on defense and the OL. We could actually be better on offense but finish 4-12 and have a top 7 pick next year!
Rosen for a #2 and late round pick? I think DG would be stupid to pass that up. Acquiring Rosen would mean this is Eli's last season with the team. Or do you cut Eli? I'm just not sure.
Rd 2 - Choose among OC Garret Bradbury, OG Chris Lindstrom, OC/OG Elgton Jenkins
Rd 4 and beyond along with free agency; go defense heavy plus you have Sam Beal en route
Half of BBI doesn’t think we have a QB problem and won’t until Eli Manning retires from the NFL.
Not if they were higher on Barkley...much higher, which everybody else refuses to believe. Rosen was one of the guys that Mara flew out to meet with wasnt he?
That would be a huge score for the Giants if we were able to add a guy like Daryl(?) Williams, re-sign Brown to solidify the line, get Rosen for a pick they would use on a QB anyways amd still have the best player in probably the last several drafts on the team already.
I was never the hugest Rosen fan, but he throws a gorgeous ball and we have an alleged QB whisperer who can coach him up. I liked the poster's (I think Big Pete?) idea for FA moves that was posted last night that included Williams, Brown, re-signing Collins and going out to get Clinton-Dix or Mathieu at FS.
Rosen
Rd 2 Nasir Addrely
Rd 2a Garrett Bradbury
or
Haskins
Rd 2 Garrett Bradbury
don't get too locked into the draft picks, its only meant for color
If we could pull off getting their second round pick that would be quite a get. This draft has a ton of red chippers.
No they wouldnt of. They were giving Eli the chance to play out his contract. If Rosen comes he sits behind Eli (unless Eli stinks it up), I think there preferable route (Plan A) is a QB at #6 but if Haskins/Lock go before then and Rosen is still in play they could pull the trigger.
No, that's bad logic.
Does that mean the Giants weren't high on any player in the draft because they picked Barkley? That doesn't seem like a yes.
No because they had Barkley rated higher. As did everyone else. Think about it
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if Gettleman & Shurmur were high on Rosen they would have taken him over Barkley? Think about it.
No because they had Barkley rated higher. As did everyone else. Think about it
I'm sure they had Barkley rated higher. But if the Giants thought Rosen could be a franchise guy, they would have taken him.
Folks will see late April.