Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Why Josh Rosen COULD Make Sense Here....

Allen in CNJ : 2/12/2019 9:26 am
...after all...

Hypothetically, IF Arizona takes Kyler Murray #1 overall, they’ll have to move Rosen. I would think this would have to take place after the draft. At that point, going into the summer and through the summer teams will be set at QB for the season, including the Giants. Why not, if this scenario plays out, trade for our QB of the future with a 2nd or 3rd round pick in the 2020 draft?

With this scenario, we can draft for our “infrastructure” and keep looking to win ASAP with Eli and company while landing his future replacement in Josh Rosen.

Just a thought. I’d like to hear what BBI thinks about this.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
an entire thread on this exists  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 9:50 am : link
I really don't know why there's now 3 threads all being posted on simultaneously on this topic. Pick one, the thought isn't original and was brought up months ago.
RE: RE: RE: I actually think the Cards plan might be to draft Murray  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/12/2019 9:52 am : link
In comment 14294284 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294268 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 14294258 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


and keep Rosen. Let the two duke it out for at least a year and see if they struck lightening with one of them. They won't have too much tied up in them and they can see who's better and move the other guy later for picks after solidifying their QB spot for the next 5-10 years.



I think Rose would demand out if that's the case. On top of that Zona would willing start a QB controversy?



I actually think this could be a model for teams moving forward. If you're picking that high two years in a row, and the first guy didn't exactly light the world on fire why not take another shot at a golden ticket? Then let the competition commence in camp. These people are paid good money, whether it be to start, or to sit behind the better guy. Why limit yourself to one shot?

It's different if you have an established veteran at QB and THEN bring in a rookie first rounder. Neither guy has proven himself at this point. I'd rather have two guys to choose from then just hoping one figures it out.


You're also tying up a ton of guaranteed money into one position as well. That has to be a factor.

It's not as much as having 1 guy, but its still something that would be considered. Between the 2 you would have close to 50 Million guaranteed to one position.
Zeke, i was being sarcastic  
George from PA : 2/12/2019 9:52 am : link
11 TDs was a disgrace.
Not happening  
Ssanders9816 : 2/12/2019 9:52 am : link
Zero chance 😴
If Cards take Murray at #1, they would trade Rosen Draft Day  
ZogZerg : 2/12/2019 9:53 am : link
or right before the draft for 2019 pick(s).

They no way want to deal with a QB controversy mess by keeping Rosen.
RE: an entire thread on this exists  
Giantology : 2/12/2019 9:55 am : link
In comment 14294292 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I really don't know why there's now 3 threads all being posted on simultaneously on this topic. Pick one, the thought isn't original and was brought up months ago.


Somehow, you'll survive :)
RE: RE: RE: RE: I actually think the Cards plan might be to draft Murray  
bradshaw44 : 2/12/2019 9:55 am : link
In comment 14294293 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14294284 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


In comment 14294268 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 14294258 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


and keep Rosen. Let the two duke it out for at least a year and see if they struck lightening with one of them. They won't have too much tied up in them and they can see who's better and move the other guy later for picks after solidifying their QB spot for the next 5-10 years.



I think Rose would demand out if that's the case. On top of that Zona would willing start a QB controversy?



I actually think this could be a model for teams moving forward. If you're picking that high two years in a row, and the first guy didn't exactly light the world on fire why not take another shot at a golden ticket? Then let the competition commence in camp. These people are paid good money, whether it be to start, or to sit behind the better guy. Why limit yourself to one shot?

It's different if you have an established veteran at QB and THEN bring in a rookie first rounder. Neither guy has proven himself at this point. I'd rather have two guys to choose from then just hoping one figures it out.



You're also tying up a ton of guaranteed money into one position as well. That has to be a factor.

It's not as much as having 1 guy, but its still something that would be considered. Between the 2 you would have close to 50 Million guaranteed to one position.


But ideally only for a short time. Once you figure out who the guy is for the next decade you move the other guy. It's an investment for the future of the franchise. ROI is greater if you find the next Eli, Peyton, Brees, Brady,Rodgers Etc...
Not gonna happen...  
Zepp : 2/12/2019 9:56 am : link
and thank god for that.
Not too mention...  
bradshaw44 : 2/12/2019 9:57 am : link
If Rosen pitches a fit and wants out, what does that say about his character or belief in himself? If he's worth being the starter he will win in camp. Other teams might not want him if he's not willing to fight for a position he hasn't truly earned.
RE: RE: an entire thread on this exists  
UConn4523 : 2/12/2019 9:58 am : link
In comment 14294303 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 14294292 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


I really don't know why there's now 3 threads all being posted on simultaneously on this topic. Pick one, the thought isn't original and was brought up months ago.



Somehow, you'll survive :)


I will. And i'll continue to point out duplicate threads. Everyone wants to be the smart guy yet they can't read a message board with the exact same content in the threads with the most hits so far today. Its odd and it takes away from an actual discussion by having people respond to the same thing 3 separate times.
RE: RE: Its NOT going to happen  
Pep22 : 2/12/2019 10:30 am : link
In comment 14294244 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 14294242 superspynyg said:


Quote:


The Cards are not drafting Murray. The only thing they may do is trade back if they get a haul. Which they prob wont so they will stay at 1.



Says who? Did you say last year that Mayfield wouldnt go #1 overall? You have no idea.


I agree. I hate when posters state something with certainty when in fact there is none.
I think a lot of people here seriously.....  
MOOPS : 2/12/2019 10:41 am : link
overrate Rosen. There were reasons he was the fourth QB to be drafted.
I know The Cards OL sucked, but Rosen didn't impress me on the field all that much. He's also got a huge ego issue and doesn't play all that well with others.
He's not the guy that takes you to the promised land but is probably the guy that takes you to a point just above mediocrity. He's the guy that holds your franchise back but shows just enough that makes you hope for just a bit more. IMO.
This is such a silly idea  
montanagiant : 2/12/2019 10:50 am : link
.
This is not going to happen  
Jay on the Island : 2/12/2019 11:00 am : link
But if it did the Giants have to make a move for Rosen unless they fall in love with Haskins. Rosen and the 33rd overall pick to the Giants for the 6th overall pick.
why would we throw away our #6 this year for essentially  
SHO'NUFF : 2/12/2019 11:09 am : link
their #10 last year? A 2nd round pick is as high as I'll go.
I wasnt enamored of Rosen last year  
blueblood : 2/12/2019 11:12 am : link
there was something off about his demeanor and his attitude.



Keep in mind  
Jay on the Island : 2/12/2019 11:18 am : link
Rosen is entering his 2nd season in which most QB's make their biggest jump in production. He would go from the league's worst offensive line and arguably the worst group of weapons in the league to a team featuring Barkley, Beckham, and Engram.
to fill in some names/variables  
Pep22 : 2/12/2019 12:01 pm : link
its Door # 1:

Rosen
Rd 2 Nasir Addrely
Rd 2a Garrett Bradbury

or

Haskins
Rd 2 Garrett Bradbury

don't get too locked into the draft picks, its only meant for color
There were times  
BlueManCrew : 2/12/2019 12:08 pm : link
this year that Rosen looked surgical when he had even a little bit of protection. I think hes better than anyone in this years draft and has franchise QB potential. Give them the number 6, and they send us back their third round pick.
It only makes sense if they're done with Eli  
Go Terps : 2/12/2019 12:18 pm : link
If they aren't done with Eli, then getting the next guy makes no sense. Just wait until next year's QB class (I expect we'll be picking top 10 again), and get the guy then.

Rosen's value has gone down since he was drafted - being in that rookie contract is valuable, and he's already put a year of that behind him. He's worth our second rounder, not our first.
RE: It only makes sense if they're done with Eli  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14294505 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If they aren't done with Eli, then getting the next guy makes no sense. Just wait until next year's QB class (I expect we'll be picking top 10 again), and get the guy then.

Rosen's value has gone down since he was drafted - being in that rookie contract is valuable, and he's already put a year of that behind him. He's worth our second rounder, not our first.


This would only make sense if they cut Eli, which is why it wont happen.

But as to the value of his rookie contract, the 10 mil of bonus money Ari has to eat more than makes up for one lost year. And its not really a lost year as he got a ton of experience last year. Much more than any QB the Giants draft this year (if they draft one) will get.
Im not that enamored about Rosen  
blueblood : 2/12/2019 12:34 pm : link
i just dont like him. I would pass on a #6 overall for him.
Going back and reading  
BlueManCrew : 2/12/2019 12:41 pm : link
Sy's report from the draft last year, he notes that Rosen would've been graded a 90+ Elite player if it weren't for the injury concerns. Well... after a season of getting pounded in Arizona he held up quite well! It answers some questions in my mind.
The questions on Rosen  
JonC : 2/12/2019 12:58 pm : link
were about mental makeup and personality. If those caused the Giants pause a year ago, it wouldn't figure to change.
He  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/12/2019 1:14 pm : link
is not a NY kind of guy. I don't get the love for him. Didn't before and less so now.
RE: RE: Its NOT going to happen  
superspynyg : 2/12/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14294244 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 14294242 superspynyg said:


Quote:


The Cards are not drafting Murray. The only thing they may do is trade back if they get a haul. Which they prob wont so they will stay at 1.



Says who? Did you say last year that Mayfield wouldnt go #1 overall? You have no idea.


Actually I did not say this. I had no Idea who the Browns wanted at 1 overall. Glad they took Mayfield and not Barkley.
Not a Rosen fan.  
Giant John : 2/12/2019 1:55 pm : link
And don’t see this scenario playing out at all.
RE: RE: It only makes sense if they're done with Eli  
Go Terps : 2/12/2019 2:38 pm : link
In comment 14294513 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14294505 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If they aren't done with Eli, then getting the next guy makes no sense. Just wait until next year's QB class (I expect we'll be picking top 10 again), and get the guy then.

Rosen's value has gone down since he was drafted - being in that rookie contract is valuable, and he's already put a year of that behind him. He's worth our second rounder, not our first.



This would only make sense if they cut Eli, which is why it wont happen.

But as to the value of his rookie contract, the 10 mil of bonus money Ari has to eat more than makes up for one lost year. And its not really a lost year as he got a ton of experience last year. Much more than any QB the Giants draft this year (if they draft one) will get.


That's a good point about the bonus. I hadn't taken that into account.

Regarding the lost year though, I don't necessarily mean a lost year of experience. Rather, a lost year of the Giants being able to take advantage of having a QB in the rookie deal.

But yeah if Eli is back this year it's moot.
...  
BleedBlue : 2/12/2019 2:41 pm : link
it def could happen. Its clear Cards HC loves murray, its clear he fits the scheme, its clear the kid is a great athlete and could be #1 overall. If cards want to do this my guess is the trade happens right before the draft but after the combine and pro days. at that point everyone will know they are going QB and everyone will assume murray based on comments and connections. I doubt it happens on draft day unless #6 is involved and zona wants to see who is avail at 6 if giants are willing.

personally i dont want to give up 6. he was drafted 10th, he didnt explode his first year so at most he is worth #10. if its me, i offer 2019 second rounder and a conditional 2020 pick (3-4 rounder)

that should get the job done. at 6, go defense. would stink to not have a second or 3rd this year, but we would have a franchise QB and a solid piece for the defense.

id do it if i was DG, at the very least explore the possibility
RE: The questions on Rosen  
Giants38 : 2/12/2019 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14294544 JonC said:
Quote:
were about mental makeup and personality. If those caused the Giants pause a year ago, it wouldn't figure to change.


The question is when will this administration grow up and join the rest of football in 2019. DG mocked analytics last year and said football hasn’t changed since 1968. It is absurd thought. I wouldn’t be so upset about them potentially passing on a generational talent like Murray if they showed any forward thinking, but they don’t. It’s the same nonsense every year.

As far as Rosen, maybe he demonstrated the maturity they thought he lacked during a tough year in AZ. I have no idea.

As for the nincumpoop who compared Murray to Vick in a prior thread, it’s a ridiculous comparison. Vick was largely a runner who could throw deep but with little accuracy. Murray, alternatively, is a passer who can make all the throws and do so accurately. Guy is a stud. But we’ll pass him up because he’s not 6’4”. At this point, I’m not confident we’ll take a new QB until we get a new, competent regime in, one with a GM who doesn’t make an idiotic face and mock a reporter when asked about use of analytics.
I still think #6 is too much for Rosen.  
81_Great_Dane : 2/12/2019 3:11 pm : link
If the Giants are trading for Rosen, something else needs to come back with him -- like a #3 pick. Yes, he's a QB, and QBs are always overvalued. Yes, he's had a year in the league, and has some experience as a starter, which counts for something. However that year in the league wasn't stellar. As noted above, last year he was drafted #10 overall. This year's #6 is too much for last year's #10, coming off a tough rookie season, QB or not.

But if Arizona called and offered Rosen and their 3rd rounder for the #6, I'd have to think about it. I haven't seen a ton of Haskins but what I've seen didn't blow me away.
Since my plan would be  
idiotsavant : 2/12/2019 3:55 pm : link
Heavy D emphasis, especially DL, including #6, not drafting QB until 2020, I would not trade #6 either.

It's ONE year folks...one more year...than you go nuts on O and QB.
Terps-  
Sean : 2/12/2019 4:00 pm : link
A couple things:

1. You are very critical of the idea that the Giants may bring Eli back. If you aren’t a believer in DG/PS, isn’t this a good thing? Give the regime another year to win with Eli, but a clean slate in 2020 going forward if they don’t. I’d rather start GM/HC/QB on the same timeline.

2. I don’t think the Giants will be thinking about rookie contracts with QB’s. I think they are debating who can give the another Eli like run in the position. If Rosen fits that, I think they’ll pursue.
We can't set Eli's career as the bar for the next guy  
ron mexico : 2/12/2019 4:02 pm : link
Thats just an unreasonable expectation. The next QB will not have the career that Eli had and thats OK.
My plan would be  
Pep22 : 2/12/2019 4:06 pm : link
Rd 1 - SOLVE THE QB PROBLEM (I like Haskins the most but the other two are fine if DG has a conviction about them)

Rd 2 - Choose among OC Garret Bradbury, OG Chris Lindstrom, OC/OG Elgton Jenkins

Rd 4 and beyond along with free agency; go defense heavy plus you have Sam Beal en route
RE: Terps-  
Go Terps : 2/12/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14294713 Sean said:
Quote:
A couple things:

1. You are very critical of the idea that the Giants may bring Eli back. If you aren’t a believer in DG/PS, isn’t this a good thing? Give the regime another year to win with Eli, but a clean slate in 2020 going forward if they don’t. I’d rather start GM/HC/QB on the same timeline.

2. I don’t think the Giants will be thinking about rookie contracts with QB’s. I think they are debating who can give the another Eli like run in the position. If Rosen fits that, I think they’ll pursue.


1. I'd agree if I thought they'd fire Gettleman and Shurmur after a poor 2019. I'm not sure they would. Maybe Shurmur, but I'd be shocked if Gettleman is replaced. Further, on a personal level I don't want to see another indignity done to Eli's career when he retires with a sub-.500 record.

2. I agree here as well, and that is what's so depressing about the current state of affairs.
I think Rosen has talent.....  
SGMen : 2/12/2019 4:20 pm : link
He is a bit "arrogant" as I understand it but he can play.

If AZ would give him up for our #2 this year I'd pull the trigger. But I think it would be much more likely AZ would ask for a 2020 #1 and I'm not so sure I'd do that.

The Giants have some good players but also some MAJOR gaping holes as well, especially on defense and the OL. We could actually be better on offense but finish 4-12 and have a top 7 pick next year!

Rosen for a #2 and late round pick? I think DG would be stupid to pass that up. Acquiring Rosen would mean this is Eli's last season with the team. Or do you cut Eli? I'm just not sure.
RE: My plan would be  
Giants38 : 2/12/2019 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14294726 Pep22 said:
Quote:
Rd 1 - SOLVE THE QB PROBLEM (I like Haskins the most but the other two are fine if DG has a conviction about them)

Rd 2 - Choose among OC Garret Bradbury, OG Chris Lindstrom, OC/OG Elgton Jenkins

Rd 4 and beyond along with free agency; go defense heavy plus you have Sam Beal en route


Half of BBI doesn’t think we have a QB problem and won’t until Eli Manning retires from the NFL.
I would be all for trading for Rosen....  
chopperhatch : 2/12/2019 5:35 pm : link
Even tho he was my third choice at QB last year. But for what? Our 1st this year for Rosen and their 2nd? I might do that.
Don't you think  
mrvax : 2/12/2019 5:41 pm : link
if Gettleman & Shurmur were high on Rosen they would have taken him over Barkley? Think about it.
RE: Don't you think  
chopperhatch : 2/12/2019 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14294813 mrvax said:
Quote:
if Gettleman & Shurmur were high on Rosen they would have taken him over Barkley? Think about it.


Not if they were higher on Barkley...much higher, which everybody else refuses to believe. Rosen was one of the guys that Mara flew out to meet with wasnt he?

That would be a huge score for the Giants if we were able to add a guy like Daryl(?) Williams, re-sign Brown to solidify the line, get Rosen for a pick they would use on a QB anyways amd still have the best player in probably the last several drafts on the team already.

I was never the hugest Rosen fan, but he throws a gorgeous ball and we have an alleged QB whisperer who can coach him up. I liked the poster's (I think Big Pete?) idea for FA moves that was posted last night that included Williams, Brown, re-signing Collins and going out to get Clinton-Dix or Mathieu at FS.
RE: to fill in some names/variables  
Pan-handler : 2/12/2019 6:05 pm : link
In comment 14294480 Pep22 said:
Quote:
its Door # 1:

Rosen
Rd 2 Nasir Addrely
Rd 2a Garrett Bradbury

or

Haskins
Rd 2 Garrett Bradbury

don't get too locked into the draft picks, its only meant for color


If we could pull off getting their second round pick that would be quite a get. This draft has a ton of red chippers.
No  
XBRONX : 2/12/2019 6:08 pm : link
thanks
RE: Don't you think  
Pan-handler : 2/12/2019 6:15 pm : link
In comment 14294813 mrvax said:
Quote:
if Gettleman & Shurmur were high on Rosen they would have taken him over Barkley? Think about it.


No they wouldnt of. They were giving Eli the chance to play out his contract. If Rosen comes he sits behind Eli (unless Eli stinks it up), I think there preferable route (Plan A) is a QB at #6 but if Haskins/Lock go before then and Rosen is still in play they could pull the trigger.
RE: Don't you think  
Eli Wilson : 2/12/2019 6:29 pm : link
In comment 14294813 mrvax said:
Quote:
if Gettleman & Shurmur were high on Rosen they would have taken him over Barkley? Think about it.


No, that's bad logic.

Does that mean the Giants weren't high on any player in the draft because they picked Barkley? That doesn't seem like a yes.
RE: Don't you think  
Ssanders9816 : 2/12/2019 6:30 pm : link
In comment 14294813 mrvax said:
Quote:
if Gettleman & Shurmur were high on Rosen they would have taken him over Barkley? Think about it.


No because they had Barkley rated higher. As did everyone else. Think about it
wouldn't mind Rosen  
bc4life : 2/12/2019 6:54 pm : link
waiting in the wings.
RE: RE: Don't you think  
mrvax : 2/12/2019 7:49 pm : link
In comment 14294835 Ssanders9816 said:
Quote:
In comment 14294813 mrvax said:


Quote:


if Gettleman & Shurmur were high on Rosen they would have taken him over Barkley? Think about it.



No because they had Barkley rated higher. As did everyone else. Think about it


I'm sure they had Barkley rated higher. But if the Giants thought Rosen could be a franchise guy, they would have taken him.

Folks will see late April.

if a bad offensive line is a good excuse for Eli's  
Jersey55 : 2/13/2019 5:16 pm : link
crappy performances then it should be a good reason for Rosen's as well...
RE: an entire thread on this exists  
TMS : 2/15/2019 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14294292 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I really don't know why there's now 3 threads all being posted on simultaneously on this topic. Pick one, the thought isn't original and was brought up months ago.
You should be used to this the Rosen lobby is unrelenting just like last year.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner