Dealing him before June 1st would create 16M in dead cap for this year - dealing him after June 1st would create 4M in dead cap for this year AND 12M in dead cap for 2020.
The time to trade Beckham has passed. It would be moronic to turn around and do it now.
If he didn't, then I expected him to be used in conjunction with draft collateral to move up in the 2020 draft. The cap hit would be easier to swallow.
Would be thrilled if we could get a first. The Giants need more depth & better balance with the cap. You cant win with a roster as top heavy as they are currently constructed.
Doesn't OBJ's contract make it nearly impossible to trade him from a salary cap standpoint because of all of the dead money the Giants would incur? I can't post a source, but I could have sworn I read several posts / articles last season about that. Did that change because he's in year #2 of his contract?
He's the same after the injury honestly. He was still solid and very good in some games but that game breaking ability doesn't appear to be there anymore, whether it's physical or mental I'm not sure. I'd see what i can get for him, we have had one winning season with him in the fold and he just doesn't seem like a fit with this regime.
that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
I can't acccess that, but if thats the case the thread really should be deleted.
I can't acccess that, but if thats the case the thread really should be deleted.
Huh? The thread says Glazer predicts a trade. The linked article has Glazer predicting a trade. Why should the thread be deleted, it's completely accurate.
Shepard has shown that he's not a #1 receiver. All the others on the roster are barely #3 receivers and I'm not sure they are that good.
So, they're going to trade one of the best receivers in the NFL and replace him with Fowler or Lattimer? GTFOH
You wouldn't. The only way I trade Beckham now is if I also cut Eli and literally tank 2019. You then get to "do over" in 2020 with an improved OLine/Dline and Barkley. I wouldn't be opposed to it personally, but I wouldn't want it half assed. Get rid of everyone not in our future plans and just eat the salary cap all at once (or as much as possible at once) and be done with it.
Never going to happen in an NY market, but its what I'd do if I had to move Beckham.
I can't acccess that, but if thats the case the thread really should be deleted.
Huh? The thread says Glazer predicts a trade. The linked article has Glazer predicting a trade. Why should the thread be deleted, it's completely accurate.
Sanders was claiming it was idle speculation. When Jay Glazer and the word prediction is used you can almost guarantee it will happen as he has some inside information.
But I highly doubt cap wise it would be even feasible to trade him. There would probably be an insane dead money hit since his contract is so new and they would be paying it for years.
"brave Dave Gettleman stands up to malcontent and trades him, bravely creating more dead money, please ignore the fact that this is a decision he made one year ago, so brave to make this trade"
Shepard has shown that he's not a #1 receiver. All the others on the roster are barely #3 receivers and I'm not sure they are that good.
So, they're going to trade one of the best receivers in the NFL and replace him with Fowler or Lattimer? GTFOH
You wouldn't. The only way I trade Beckham now is if I also cut Eli and literally tank 2019. You then get to "do over" in 2020 with an improved OLine/Dline and Barkley. I wouldn't be opposed to it personally, but I wouldn't want it half assed. Get rid of everyone not in our future plans and just eat the salary cap all at once (or as much as possible at once) and be done with it.
Never going to happen in an NY market, but its what I'd do if I had to move Beckham.
This would be the year to do it. Good QB class next year. Get a #1 this year a #1 next year and maybe one extra pick next year. Not going to happen, but it's what Oakland did. And it's why I can see them moving on from Carr.
that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
But I highly doubt cap wise it would be even feasible to trade him. There would probably be an insane dead money hit since his contract is so new and they would be paying it for years.
IF that 16 million number is true it is absolutely feasible, especially if it brings back 2-3 cost controlled players. This team isn't going to anywhere next year regardless. Could be a signal that they don't like the QBs this year and want ammo for next year.
It is pure speculation. I subscribe to the Athletic
anyone really wants to see the article, there is literally two sentences in regards to OBJ as its just a mailbag Q&A article and one sentence is that Glazer believes teams are open to trades now more than ever, someone asks him to make a bold prediction for this offseason and Glazer says He predicts OBJ will be traded this offseason. That's the extent of the article in terms of Giants news.
that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
Glazer isn't a shit thrower.
but there is a difference between a prediction and a rumor. And this is clearly a prediction.
Shepard has shown that he's not a #1 receiver. All the others on the roster are barely #3 receivers and I'm not sure they are that good.
So, they're going to trade one of the best receivers in the NFL and replace him with Fowler or Lattimer? GTFOH
You wouldn't. The only way I trade Beckham now is if I also cut Eli and literally tank 2019. You then get to "do over" in 2020 with an improved OLine/Dline and Barkley. I wouldn't be opposed to it personally, but I wouldn't want it half assed. Get rid of everyone not in our future plans and just eat the salary cap all at once (or as much as possible at once) and be done with it.
Never going to happen in an NY market, but its what I'd do if I had to move Beckham.
That's how I view it, other than cutting Eli and trading away Beckham for a full on tank, what's the point in trading him now? The timing is also curious, why is present day the proper time to trade him? Why wasn't this done in the 2018 offseason and why wasn't a full reboot undertaken at that time.
Trading him now doesn't seem to comport with the 2018 and present strategy.
that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
Glazer isn't a shit thrower.
Schefter isn't either and he said OBJ was traded to the Rams last March.
RE: RE: This is based off the Market Brown will set
But I highly doubt cap wise it would be even feasible to trade him. There would probably be an insane dead money hit since his contract is so new and they would be paying it for years.
IF that 16 million number is true it is absolutely feasible, especially if it brings back 2-3 cost controlled players. This team isn't going to anywhere next year regardless. Could be a signal that they don't like the QBs this year and want ammo for next year.
Wouldn't it be more likely if they did trade him, they traded him at the trade dealine? They save a lot more money and can push that all towards the future.
Imagine they get a 1 and a 3 for him and a conditional 2021 pick (2 or 3). That would set them up to move around the board next year.
If Glazer is saying it there must be some legs there
But I highly doubt cap wise it would be even feasible to trade him. There would probably be an insane dead money hit since his contract is so new and they would be paying it for years.
It's doable, capwise. They'd actually save $5M in that regard. A lot of the guaranteed money was in base salaries rather than a monster signing bonus.
RE: If Glazer is saying it there must be some legs there
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
Agreed. I do not want to tradr Beckham but Glazer is always on point with his info. If it wasn't a possibility then I don't think he would have said anything.
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
It worries me that it's coming from him. It really doesn't make sense unless it's an attitude or injury thing. Why shop him this year when there's another elite WR on the market eating into his value and when you'll carry a big dead money obligation? If it has teeth then something is up.
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
Yeah, Beckham definitely got the training staff and doctors to make up fake reports so he wasn't allowed to practice.
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
as an organization you've tried, and tried, and tried again to not have this guy create situations where the GM, head coach, teammates, etc. have to answer questions about him and you still find yourselves going in circles.
Mara stupidly believed that a couple of quiet months leading up to his pay day was a sign of maturity. The best time to trade him was last year's draft but as Terps said, better late than never.
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
Yeah that didnt happen but keep grasping
What didnt happen ?
Any of the dogshit nonsense that just came out of your mouth
As regards to the dead money situation it doesn't really matter
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
Yeah that didnt happen but keep grasping
What didnt happen ?
Any of the dogshit nonsense that just came out of your mouth
Well sir you shoot dogshit out of your mouth all the time so you should be used to it
that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
Glazer isn't a shit thrower.
Schefter isn't either and he said OBJ was traded to the Rams last March.
Schefter does what suits his and ESPN's purpose, it's a bit different than Glazer's pot.
RE: Just because Glazer said it doesn't mean it's sourced
Predictions are not reporting. Someone asked him for a bold prediction. It does not in any way make financial sense for the Giants to do it.
And that is why I thought it should be deleted and reposted. While technically factually accurate, when Jay Glazer and prediction are used it generally alludes to a situation that is near imminent or at the very least has some serious legs.
I don't see this happening, but if it were to happen
Either Beckham's injury took him down a notch from elite status and the Giants are premptively trying to recoup what they can from his contract, both in terms of cap and draft capital.
..or..
The Giants have had enough of Beckham's personality and want him elsewhere. If this is the case, and he goes on to play well elsewhere, it'll just be another sign that this team doesn't know WTF it's doing.
that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
Glazer isn't a shit thrower.
but there is a difference between a prediction and a rumor. And this is clearly a prediction.
Fair enough, but I'm telling you Glazer is a different animal than the general head.
RE: RE: Just because Glazer said it doesn't mean it's sourced
Predictions are not reporting. Someone asked him for a bold prediction. It does not in any way make financial sense for the Giants to do it.
And that is why I thought it should be deleted and reposted. While technically factually accurate, when Jay Glazer and prediction are used it generally alludes to a situation that is near imminent or at the very least has some serious legs.
If it were near imminent, he would have ran with it as an actual piece, not a mailbag throw in.
Either Beckham's injury took him down a notch from elite status and the Giants are premptively trying to recoup what they can from his contract, both in terms of cap and draft capital.
..or..
The Giants have had enough of Beckham's personality and want him elsewhere. If this is the case, and he goes on to play well elsewhere, it'll just be another sign that this team doesn't know WTF it's doing.
Maybe Beckham pushed the leak? He has seen a lot of losing seasons in NY
My prediction is that this thread will have over 200 replies by the end of the day - because no one seems to be able to get enough of this riveting topic!
I'm also of the belief that teams use Shefter to get misinformation out as ESPN uses whatever information he is pumping and repeats it ad nauseum like it is the truth. It is a good way to change the narrative.
I'm also of the belief that teams use Shefter to get misinformation out as ESPN uses whatever information he is pumping and repeats it ad nauseum like it is the truth. It is a good way to change the narrative.
Correct. It's a bit different with Glazer and Fox, their football presence is much smaller during the offseason.
I'm not saying it's imminent based off this prediction, but Glazer isn't typically one who invents info to suit himself.
Go fuck yourself and take a course on having and showing some respect on other peoples opinions .... who the fuck are you....another internet warrior because I know you wouldnt talk to me like that to my face punk
Yeah - a completely made up story that sounded like it was written by a 3rd grader.
Shep, Engram and Barkley carried the offense fine in his absence.
Either fetch a 1st or 2nd for him, and use/package it to grab a QB in addition to an edge rusher or OL with the sixth.
Feeling very good about Gettleman if this is true.
Are you serious? Gettleman would look like a complete ass doing this. Here's 91 mill, now go to another team and we'll have no #1 WR, huge dead cap hit and still an aged QB and shitty OL. It makes zero sense and this was not a serious prediction on Glazer's part.
Yes, you want a 1st round pick or two in the lineup, but the Giants current core (1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd) is overkill and has obviously sucked away resources in the trenches.
The 2011 offense featured a 1st, 4th, 7th, and two undrafted free agents in the lineup.
Here's 91 mill, now go to another team and we'll have no #1 WR, huge dead cap hit and still an aged QB and shitty OL. It makes zero sense and this was not a serious prediction on Glazer's part.
We theoretically wouldn't still have an aged QB and shitty OL because the return on OBJ can help us shore up either or both.
I agree though that trading him last year would've made better sense if this rumor was true.
I suspect trading Beckham would have to be OK'd (or requested) by Mara.
Really going out on a limb there, Terps
I know I'm not, but we have posters saying Gettleman would be an ass for doing it. I'm not a Gettleman fan, but knocking him for trading Beckham doesn't make much sense to me.
Wonder what a move like this would mean for Eli's status?
but I can't think of one bigger than his idiotic belief that Beckham could be trusted to be signed long-term, coming off an injury, when there was literally no reason for them to do so.
RE: Wonder what a move like this would mean for Eli's status?
I'm not sure it's in his make-up anymore to develop receivers.
My thought: DG maybe isn't cutting Eli, but he's definitely bringing in serious competition. I imagine he sees the value in the OL and edge rushers this draft but also doesn't want to futz about and wait until 2020 to address the QB situation. Ergo, move an asset for more draft capital
Quote:
An older, self-involved, there-is-ME in team jackass (AB) or a younger, self-involved jackass coming off a major injury (OBJ).
Go fuck yourself and take a course on having and showing some respect on other peoples opinions .... who the fuck are you....another internet warrior because I know you wouldnt talk to me like that to my face punk
Yeah - a completely made up story that sounded like it was written by a 3rd grader.
Asshole.
The first thing taught in that class would be respect is earned before it's given.
Your made up nonsense post deserves no respect. It wasn't an opinion, it was stated as fact but it's pure fiction that frankly borders on delusion.
Did you forget the doctors never cleared OBJ to play or just decide to omit that from any reasonable thinking before posting your nonsense?
Well he did state it as an opinion, but he should have
starts taking at the Giants. If we were to take Eli at his word he would just retire, which we know will never happen.
what did Eli say that would make you think this would make him retire?
"If Eli is done playing, I'm fine with it," Archie told ESPN's Ian O'Connor. "But if he comes back, the Giants have got to win. They can't go through another season like this."
Saying he expects the Giants to make moves to win in the short term if Eli comes back. Trading Odell would be the opposite of that.
RE: Well he did state it as an opinion, but he should have
backed off of it when he was told it isn't possible just to sit out and fake an injury.
Not that it's worthy of rereading but his first line about DG and Shurmur not liking OBJ sitting out the four games was most certainly posted as a fact and not an opinion. At least that's the way it came off to me. There was no "I think" or IMO, or anything like it.
And I don't think he would, but it was a pretty transparent attempt
right after they gave him all that money. As others have noted it would be dumb to trade him now with the cap and return, but if there's something to this smoke it has more to do with an emotional/cultural fit.
RE: And I don't think he would, but it was a pretty transparent attempt
by the Manning's to put pressure on the Giants to make some short-term moves so Eli doesn't finish with W/L record below 500.
If this was true (and I think it was probably delivered with more nuance than this) I don't see why you wouldn't release Eli, given DG's tough reputation. You don't just sacrifice long-term team goals to pad your QBs career W/L record.
Secondly, DG would NOT say or hint to Glazer about anything like that. And please dont say we have a habit of telegraphing our intentions. This is DG, not Reese and company. Also, try not to point to DG splooging all over SB from the get-go. I, who watch ZERO college football, said it was a no-brainer as almost everyone else in the media did.
but diva WR's do not win championships. I wanted to trade him before we re-signed him, but I also got suckered into thinking he changed and he was worth the money.
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
but diva WR's do not win championships. I wanted to trade him before we re-signed him, but I also got suckered into thinking he changed and he was worth the money.
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
Guess you missed the time we won with Plaxico Burress
but diva WR's do not win championships. I wanted to trade him before we re-signed him, but I also got suckered into thinking he changed and he was worth the money.
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
So youre saying he DIDNT CHANGE after he signed his new contract? Proof of this?
but diva WR's do not win championships. I wanted to trade him before we re-signed him, but I also got suckered into thinking he changed and he was worth the money.
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
First off... putting AB and OBJ in the same category as far as distractions is ridiculous. AB is a bad dude.
Second... also silly to talk about elite WRs not winning super bowls..
Julio Jones should have won
Randy Moss could have won if not for Eli
Marvin Harrison won
TO did everything possible and could have won if not for McNabb losing his lunch
but diva WR's do not win championships. I wanted to trade him before we re-signed him, but I also got suckered into thinking he changed and he was worth the money.
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
Guess you missed the time we won with Plaxico Burress
but diva WR's do not win championships. I wanted to trade him before we re-signed him, but I also got suckered into thinking he changed and he was worth the money.
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
Guess you missed the time we won with Plaxico Burress
Or that SB winning catch by Santonio Holmes
Demaryius Thomas, Hakeem Nicks
And then if the argument is "none of those guys are on the level of AB/OBJ"...then the question is, who is?
what? He was a great teammate last year; Saquon loves him. Worked hard to get back. Has done ZERO off the field to be pegged anything else but a young star having fun. Fans love him, he's charitable, kids love him.
GTFO with him being a distraction or anything close to Antonio Brown. Enough!
If you want to argue the merits for moving an asset like him for more need, fine. But everyone here saying he's a headache is completely off.
most people wouldn't expect. And most people wouldn't suspect this because it makes little sense. I don't think this is based on anything Glazer heard, or as someone else mentioned, it wouldn't be a single sentence in a mailbag piece. That isn't where anyone puts actual news or leaks information because it is too easy to ignore.
However, if it is true and the Giants trade OBJ, you would assume Eli is probably released also. Trading Beckham for picks indicates the team realized they are moving in the wrong direction, and they are entering full tear-it-down and start from scratch mode. Anything else would be laughable. And you don't rebuild with an expensive, aging QB.
If for no other reason, OBJ will not be traded because neither Mara nor Gettleman will stand in front of the media and admit they are giving up on a football season before it even begins.
RE: RE: Well he did state it as an opinion, but he should have
backed off of it when he was told it isn't possible just to sit out and fake an injury.
Not that it's worthy of rereading but his first line about DG and Shurmur not liking OBJ sitting out the four games was most certainly posted as a fact and not an opinion. At least that's the way it came off to me. There was no "I think" or IMO, or anything like it.
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
I put IMO in there but your saying I should have put imo in the first sentence .......ok Im ok with that jeez the grammar police
I did also say that I dont think the giants brass liked the Lil Wayne bit thats also my opinion and me speculating on it if you want to call me out on it fine but you dont have to be insulting .......
as an organization you've tried, and tried, and tried again to not have this guy create situations where the GM, head coach, teammates, etc. have to answer questions about him and you still find yourselves going in circles.
Mara stupidly believed that a couple of quiet months leading up to his pay day was a sign of maturity. The best time to trade him was last year's draft but as Terps said, better late than never.
This post doesn't make any sense. By all accounts, OBJ is a good teammate, on the field he's all business except for the Carolina game and Norman deserves blame there too (when has he ever shown up a teammate?).
If the line is drawn at always answering questions about something - then why is Eli still here? How many questions have been asked about his declining play last 3 years?
And how many questions have to be asked about the offensive line and our linebackers before that gets addressed?
Who gives a shit if coaches and GMs answer questions about him - the guy produces.
What are the other options? Trade him then and get 60% value cause his ankle snapped last time we saw him. Or franchise him and have an even bigger shit show? Good move to extend him, now it would be a great move if they got an absolute haul. Im not convinced because we rarely see GREAT NFL WR get traded in their prime, but I am hopeful that we can turn him into a 1 and a starting OL or DL, or multiple 1s. Otherwise, hoping he is back and something clicks.
RE: RE: RE: Well he did state it as an opinion, but he should have
backed off of it when he was told it isn't possible just to sit out and fake an injury.
Not that it's worthy of rereading but his first line about DG and Shurmur not liking OBJ sitting out the four games was most certainly posted as a fact and not an opinion. At least that's the way it came off to me. There was no "I think" or IMO, or anything like it.
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
I put IMO in there but your saying I should have put imo in the first sentence .......ok Im ok with that jeez the grammar police
I did also say that I dont think the giants brass liked the Lil Wayne bit thats also my opinion and me speculating on it if you want to call me out on it fine but you dont have to be insulting .......
Nah not trying to be the grammar police. To be fair, it was pointed out you did state it as an opinion in your title and I admitted I was mistaken in not seeing that in your title. I only read the text of your post.
However I stand by the respect being earned part of my post. Calling people assholes and expecting respect is a bit hypocritical IMO.
OBJ/Barkley + an average OL is something that should be dangerous. Im not ready to throw away a historically rare WR/RB duo with such versatile skillsets after a bad year with a shit OL. Get better OL protection or draft Kyler Murray to take advantage of the ridiculous misdirection potential of this offense and just go all in.
would ever compare Odell Beckham Jr's body of work to Eli Manning's on or off the field?
Eli has had a great body of work... and has been highly compensated for it.
But the analogy is clear and my first grade son understands it - the media has asked the GM and Coach(es) about both players in recent years. Why is one not worth the headache but the other is?
but I just don't see it. Unless there is a huge market for Brown and you'd argue that Odell could get more. Ultimately, I do believe the Giants are going to build their roster around Saquon, but I think the Giants are going to want to see what comes next year with a better offensive line, and Saquon, Odell, and Engram (who looked like the light went on last year) all working together.
As Sy said, that's a nice way for him to get some attention and clicks.
I just don't understand how much more direct and clear Gettleman
but diva WR's do not win championships. I wanted to trade him before we re-signed him, but I also got suckered into thinking he changed and he was worth the money.
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
First off... putting AB and OBJ in the same category as far as distractions is ridiculous. AB is a bad dude.
Second... also silly to talk about elite WRs not winning super bowls..
Julio Jones should have won
Randy Moss could have won if not for Eli
Marvin Harrison won
TO did everything possible and could have won if not for McNabb losing his lunch
He's the same after the injury honestly. He was still solid and very good in some games but that game breaking ability doesn't appear to be there anymore, whether it's physical or mental I'm not sure. I'd see what i can get for him, we have had one winning season with him in the fold and he just doesn't seem like a fit with this regime.
Your post may not be popular, but I agree. He appears to have lost that.
this seems like a terrible idea. he was good finding OL and LBs in Car, but could never get Cam a decent WR. as it turned out, kelvin benjamin was not the next plaxico.
See what the market is. See if someone will make you an offer you can't refuse.
Makes no sense. The Giants already evaluated his trade value if the last set of rumors were true. You really think they then negotiated with him and signed him to an extension to just start the trade talks again?!
He s a great asset, but Giants have not been very good even with his all world talent
Maybe it makes sense to trade him if it garners capital to move forward.
But we might be surprised what another team would offer for this oft injured talent.
This implies the Giants can't be good with him here. The fact that the Giants have sucked even with OBJ being here is an indictment of GM and coaching in recent years.
The Rams sucked for years with a terrific defense and some all-world players in Gurley, Donald, etc. Then they brought in a great coach, started drafting well, found their QB, stablized their OL through Whitworth, etc.
How about drafting well for a change and building a good team around Barkley and OBJ?
Not sure who would be a likely suitor and it would
have to be a sizable return .
Don't the Rams have Goff to sign yet ? . I am sure
OBJ would love to play out there .
This is for the WR with the richest contract in the NFL, and the second highest cap hit at the position in 2019.
Doesn't paint a pretty picture.
Im no Beckham fan in the least however Id be willing to see how year 2 post injury goes with regards to those numbers you cited. Also Im in no hurry to create another crater on the team. We have enough holes as it stands right now.
after DG and Shurmur tried to start out with the clean slate, Beckham pom poms and Mara foolishly caved after playing the wait and see game with him for a whopping two months when he could taste the huge payday.
I'll bet Mara, Shurmur and co. felt pretty stupid after they watched Beckham sitting next to Lil Wayne of all people talking about playing in LA as the team was getting off to another tough start. As if Shurmur didnt have enough on his plate in year one.
I don't think Glazer's tweet or whatever it was means much either way, but I'd bet a ton of money Beckham caused a hell of a lot of disappointment for ownership/management this season, yet again.
after DG and Shurmur tried to start out with the clean slate, Beckham pom poms and Mara foolishly caved after playing the wait and see game with him for a whopping two months when he could taste the huge payday.
I'll bet Mara, Shurmur and co. felt pretty stupid after they watched Beckham sitting next to Lil Wayne of all people talking about playing in LA as the team was getting off to another tough start. As if Shurmur didnt have enough on his plate in year one.
I don't think Glazer's tweet or whatever it was means much either way, but I'd bet a ton of money Beckham caused a hell of a lot of disappointment for ownership/management this season, yet again.
The same level of disappointment ownership and management has caused us fans the last few years?!
is enough I guess. Ruin Saquon in 5 years running him 30x per hame and go back the the Giants of the Super Bowl 80's. Zero elites.
Maybe you can do that with Bill Belicheck at the helm, but not here.
ALL our elite wideouts go down with injury and it destroys their careers in 3 years. Are we going to now trade OBJ and have Shep be our #1?
IF they do this it will ruin the offseason for me. I don't mind that he dances. I'm not an old school "hand it to the ref" guy. Clinging to that is a recipe for unloading come great players. He's NOT NOT NOT a lockerroom cancer either, despite the hair trigger OBJ haters rhetoric.
once this happens, eli retires because we cant win now and the money we save we sign a WR, a RT and a Center for our new young QB
how we feeling?
I doubt we get that return but I would take it in a heartbeat, Even with Rosen's poor rookie year.
LOL yeah they would never do that trade. And what WR do you sign to replace him?! Cobb or Tate? Lol
if amari cooper gets a first rounder, obj is worth two. rosen is one, im not even asking for another im asking for a 2nd and 3rd rounder in addition to rosen. they turn around and take murray at #1
Either Beckham's injury took him down a notch from elite status and the Giants are premptively trying to recoup what they can from his contract, both in terms of cap and draft capital.
..or..
The Giants have had enough of Beckham's personality and want him elsewhere. If this is the case, and he goes on to play well elsewhere, it'll just be another sign that this team doesn't know WTF it's doing.
I am in agreement with the difficullty of winning with a Diva/malcontent superstar WR.
but it can be done. Plenty of examples.
Gronk
Michael Irvin
Ok so there are 2 examples.
I really think it serves this teams future for them to trade him. And have no idea why they resigned him based on this regimes track record.
But does sell tickets and media. And whats wrong w keeping him one more year than trading when his cap hit is worse and he proves he doesn't correlate to winning?
This is for the WR with the richest contract in the NFL, and the second highest cap hit at the position in 2019.
Doesn't paint a pretty picture.
When you're making excuses for the highest paid player at a position in the league it's a problem. We've spent the last three years doing that for Vernon, and we spent a lot of 2018 doing that for Solder. It's getting old.
but Odell just tweeted a couple about an hour ago - one of a zipper-mouth face and another blushing emoji. If anyone wants to translate the language of dipshits, have at it.
but Odell just tweeted a couple about an hour ago - one of a zipper-mouth face and another blushing emoji. If anyone wants to translate the language of dipshits, have at it.
He's probably just tired of reading this same story every 2 months.
fact that OBJ is covered by pretty closely and teams scheme to take him away from Eli and not just grab stats and wave them around w/o any context
Is he the only receiver being covered pretty closely and having teams scheme to take him away? Because that didn't seem to bother a lot of other receivers that are also the focal point of their offenses. The only other so called premier WR I could find that was clearly less efficient than Beckham was Jarvis Landry, who was frankly terrible - 54% catches and 12 yards per catch...what a disastrous contract for Cleveland.
Nevertheless, when deep threats like TY Hilton and Tyreek Hill have 3 yards per catch higher than Beckham AND still catch a higher percentage of the passes thrown to them, it's indicative of what we're paying for.
Looking at Landry's stats reminded me of this thread. Funny read now...I particularly like the part where Landry's a better player than Julian Edelman. Link - ( New Window )
to give him gargantuan signing bonus only to trade him away.
Right or wrong I doubt Beckham is going anywhere. If Gettleman had a mind to trade him he'd have been dealt a year ago.
Gargantuan? It was only $20M just a shade higher than the 1 year FT. While his contract has a lot of guaranteed money, they are in the form of yearly salary. Any trading team would be on the hook for those. OBJ's Contract. - ( New Window )
I think the Giants' skill position players are the best they have ever had as a unit. I'd like to see what they can do behind a competent OLine before we start trading away the main pieces.
Maybe Beckham pushed the leak? He has seen a lot of losing seasons in NY
IIRC Glazer and Beckham work with the same elite trainer in Los Angeles. It's entirely possible that OBJ or his people have a relationship with Glazer and feed him stuff. Also possible that OBJ said something to the trainer who said something to Glazer.
for a wr isn't productive? Averaging 80 yards a game isn't productive?
18 WRs had 1,000 yards in 2018. Beckham's 87.7 yards per game was 9th in the league, but that number has to be qualified by the fact the Giants targeted him a ton each game...I think he came in at 4th in the league in targets per game.
You want to look at highlights on YouTube and say he's worth $20M, that's fine. But know that he had about the same stats for the season as Tyler Boyd.
Maybe Beckham pushed the leak? He has seen a lot of losing seasons in NY
IIRC Glazer and Beckham work with the same elite trainer in Los Angeles. It's entirely possible that OBJ or his people have a relationship with Glazer and feed him stuff. Also possible that OBJ said something to the trainer who said something to Glazer.
If anyone was trying to leak a story, why would it buried in a mailbag q and a on a subscription-based news outlet, and not actually a report Glazer would have put through Fox Sports, where it would've gotten the most eyes.
You think DCs scheme to stop Tyler Boyd? You get rid of Beckham - that totally changes how teams can game plan. You think teams are worried about Sterling Sheraprd taking over games on a consistent basis?
You think DCs scheme to stop Tyler Boyd? You get rid of Beckham - that totally changes how teams can game plan. You think teams are worried about Sterling Sheraprd taking over games on a consistent basis?
Top 5 wr in the league.
Odell Beckham is most definitely not a top 5 WR in the league. Nothing objective is going to back that up.
You think DCs scheme to stop Tyler Boyd? You get rid of Beckham - that totally changes how teams can game plan. You think teams are worried about Sterling Sheraprd taking over games on a consistent basis?
You think DCs scheme to stop Tyler Boyd? You get rid of Beckham - that totally changes how teams can game plan. You think teams are worried about Sterling Sheraprd taking over games on a consistent basis?
Top 5 wr in the league.
Odell Beckham is most definitely not a top 5 WR in the league. Nothing objective is going to back that up.
Hes the most matchup proof WR in the league, even more so than Antonio Brown. The stats do back that up.
The stat argument can be debunked pretty easily but its not worth the time.
Regarding a potential trade, Id be ok with it if the return netted multiple pass rushers or multiple quality OL in the draft. But I doubt anyone is willing to give up what it takes to get that. The cap hit could be absorbed relatively easily once Vernon is gone.
Since its doubtful anyone will give up fair value Beckham and the dead hit makes it a little dicey odds are he stays.
Plucking Beckham's 2018 numbers without context is fairly disingenuous - we all know he wasn't 100% at season's start, and then once he finally seemed to be rounding back into form, he got leg whipped at the end of the 2nd PHI game and that ended his season.
He didn't play at all in he preseason, he barely did anything in camp. The first month of the season was basically his training camp and preseason.
He carried the offense by himself in 2016 on an 11 win team.
101 receptions, over 1300 yards, double-digit TD's, and game changing plays in several games en route to wins (BAL, DAL, PHI)
Trading Beckham piles more dead money onto our salary cap now AND later (depending on whether he'd be dealt pre/post-6/1), it creates a new glaring positional hole, and it sends him off when his value is probably its lowest and he's owed a significant amount of money.
If someone blows me away with a Godfather offer, sure - I wouldn't refuse to deal him under any scenario. But again, there are guys here who just want to get rid of him based almost entirely on nothing other than the fact that they don't like him.
Hell, we even had a guy on this thread make up an entire story about him essentially "faking" the leg injury at the end of the past season and purposely sitting games out. That's where we're at when it comes to objectivity and Beckham.
You think DCs scheme to stop Tyler Boyd? You get rid of Beckham - that totally changes how teams can game plan. You think teams are worried about Sterling Sheraprd taking over games on a consistent basis?
Top 5 wr in the league.
Odell Beckham is most definitely not a top 5 WR in the league. Nothing objective is going to back that up.
Huh??
The records he set over the first several years back it up. I find this comment absolutely shocking. You can hate him for his personality, which I also find ridiculous, but how can anyone doubt he is a top 5 NFL wr??
He didn't have a top 5 season last year, sure..
But if all we are looking at is a small sample size and most recent performance then I guess Julian Edelman is the best WR on the planet...
$$ aside...if you think there are 5 WRs in the NFL right now that GMs would pick to start their WR corps before Odell you are nuts..
How can you find it shocking? It's been 2 full seasons now where he hasn't been one of the best WRs in the league. How long do we get to point to 2014-2016?
And more to the point, because we're paying him like it's 2014-2016 are we allowed to expect him to put up that kind of production or better? I think we are.
How can you find it shocking? It's been 2 full seasons now where he hasn't been one of the best WRs in the league. How long do we get to point to 2014-2016?
And more to the point, because we're paying him like it's 2014-2016 are we allowed to expect him to put up that kind of production or better? I think we are.
Is it all his fault(I believe he is some what at fault due to injuries)or the facilitators(coaching and QB)?
I'd have to think about it, anyway. Depends on how good you think the top guys in the draft are and what you think of Beckham going forward. The early grades aren't stellar on the guys at the top of the draft.
If you think OBJ's slipping, or is a locker room cancer, then you make that deal. I know a lot of BBIers don't like OBJ, but I don't get the sense that Shurmur, Gettelman and ownership feel the same way.
How can you find it shocking? It's been 2 full seasons now where he hasn't been one of the best WRs in the league. How long do we get to point to 2014-2016?
And more to the point, because we're paying him like it's 2014-2016 are we allowed to expect him to put up that kind of production or better? I think we are.
until he is healthy (2017) and playing with a functioning offense (2018) maybe??
Is Bell not a top RB just because he didn't play??
Was Jordan not the best basketball player on the planet when he was playing OF??
Just because he hasn't played and put up historic numbers doesn't mean he suddenly isn't good anymore.
It's not all his fault, but that doesn't really matter. We still have to pay him like he's producing as an elite receiver, and that impacts our ability to pay players in other areas of the roster.
None of this is a criticism of Beckham. It's a criticism of the people that thought it would be a good idea to pay him. For him to be worth it he has to be great...no excuses.
We just went through this garbage with Vernon. Paid him like he was an elite player and he proceeded not to be an elite player to our great detriment. Instead of production we got excuses and rationalizations for his play. It's become the hallmark of this team...saying a guy is elite when he actually isn't.
It's not all his fault, but that doesn't really matter. We still have to pay him like he's producing as an elite receiver, and that impacts our ability to pay players in other areas of the roster.
None of this is a criticism of Beckham. It's a criticism of the people that thought it would be a good idea to pay him. For him to be worth it he has to be great...no excuses.
Fair enough.
I think considering his age, and the fact the contract did happen i'd like to give him another year with a new QB.
It doesn't look like that's going to happen, so they should ship him out, and quite frankly I think he's the one pushing for it.
There were questions about whether he would be limited to start the season.
Has the injury lowered his ceiling to what we saw in 2018? Possibly, but I doubt it. It was a brutal injury, taking 2 years to fully recover should not be surprising at all. If the injury hasn't taken anything away, we should see him return to elite status in 2019. Also, the other side of that coin is he may never be what he once was, and we should be able to determine that as well.
He basically said so while holding court with Lil Wayne.
Also, what does Beckham have in common with all the people who bend over backwards to kiss his ass? They both think hes some suffering legend who is stuck losing even though he adds plenty to the losing culture around here and was maybe the biggest culprit in them spoiling the best and only playoff opportunity theyve had since SB 46.
RE: predictions are only as good as the source they come from
but Jay Glazer is a pretty reliable source with a good reputation...
He specifically said this wasn't inside info. Just a bold prediction. Of course he's gonna throw one of the most popular players name in there. Needs clicks on the pay site that he now works for.
I think Beckham can't wait to get away from the Giants.
Or he can't wait to get a halfway decent QB who doesn't miss him running wide open? He wants to win. Everybody knows that isn't happening with Eli at QB.
However. He has not played on the same level since his broken ankle. Just not the same player anymore. Injury prone. What did we win with him? We certainly can lose just as much without him. I wish him the best and hope he can get back to a high level of performance as a Giant.
fact that OBJ is covered by pretty closely and teams scheme to take him away from Eli and not just grab stats and wave them around w/o any context
Is he the only receiver being covered pretty closely and having teams scheme to take him away? Because that didn't seem to bother a lot of other receivers that are also the focal point of their offenses. The only other so called premier WR I could find that was clearly less efficient than Beckham was Jarvis Landry, who was frankly terrible - 54% catches and 12 yards per catch...what a disastrous contract for Cleveland.
Nevertheless, when deep threats like TY Hilton and Tyreek Hill have 3 yards per catch higher than Beckham AND still catch a higher percentage of the passes thrown to them, it's indicative of what we're paying for.
TY Hilton and Tyreek Hill signed their contracts a few years ago. The last guy to sign always makes more than he should relative to others at his position. And we sure as hell shouldn't trade OBJ just because on an off year he wasn't as good as two very good receivers. Julio Jones was a couple yards per catch behind those two last year as well.....should Atlanta trade him? DG has made some dumb moves so far but I don't think he's dumb enough to trade Beckham.
or you keep him. He's too good to be traded for anything else. As for his being a distraction, who the hell cares? The objective is to score touchdowns and win games. All else is meaningless.
we have NOBODY else in the passing game who can stretch the field or make a big pay for a large chunk of yards. Without OBJ, every defense will drop 8 guys down to stop Barkley. We will have to move own the field 4 yards at a time. Net result.. we will average 9 points per game.
but was open (and missed) in the end zone multiple times in week 1 versus Jalen Ramsey. We watched another game in which the coach could clearly be seen saying, "Throw Odell the ball." If the standard for Odell is he's not turning 2 yard passes into 70 yard TDs, then it's possible that wasn't going to happen regardless of injury. And let's forget the catch percentage nonsense. Beckham's has been almost exactly the same each of the past 4 seasons.
I find it laughable that the same person who argues in one thread about them not throwing downfield enough then decides to criticize Beckham because of his yard per catch average in this thread.
for a wr isn't productive? Averaging 80 yards a game isn't productive?
18 WRs had 1,000 yards in 2018. Beckham's 87.7 yards per game was 9th in the league, but that number has to be qualified by the fact the Giants targeted him a ton each game...I think he came in at 4th in the league in targets per game.
You want to look at highlights on YouTube and say he's worth $20M, that's fine. But know that he had about the same stats for the season as Tyler Boyd.
!,000 yards isn't bad at all considering the guy really only played 12 games...wonder what the giants record was in games that Beckham hasn't played. Im guessing that won't be a pretty number...
but was open (and missed) in the end zone multiple times in week 1 versus Jalen Ramsey. We watched another game in which the coach could clearly be seen saying, "Throw Odell the ball." If the standard for Odell is he's not turning 2 yard passes into 70 yard TDs, then it's possible that wasn't going to happen regardless of injury. And let's forget the catch percentage nonsense. Beckham's has been almost exactly the same each of the past 4 seasons.
I find it laughable that the same person who argues in one thread about them not throwing downfield enough then decides to criticize Beckham because of his yard per catch average in this thread.
Looking at Landry's stats reminded me of this thread. Funny read now...I particularly like the part where Landry's a better player than Julian Edelman. Link - ( New Window )
Ha - thanks for linking this thread.
This was the one where KWALL insisted to me that Landry would be the 4th option at best in the Browns passing game this year or something ludicrous.
Who was the Browns leading WR this year?
Jarvis Landry.
Wasn't even close, either - I don't think a WR on that roster was within 30 catches of him.
when you are in a boat that has been sinking forever, drilling another hole in the bottom, (trade away your team's best skill player) to let out water, is three stooges dumb. formula should be: adding pass rushing beasts, add in some game of thrones sized offensive linemen, and watch eli be humble once again, at the lombardi presentation.
Terps...your hate for obj is fucking exhausting. The guy is EASILY a top 5 WR in football. 95% of people would agree. The other 5% are you and NFC East fans who know nothing. The guy is a very good player and makes our team better...I'm only doing it if I get a massive haul. Cooper who is half the player obj is got a first rounder. I want Rosen, #33, #65 at minimum. Obj is a game changing player. Those aren't falling off trees. Chances are there won't be an obj in this draft either.
Your hate just makes you look like a clown, it's getting obnoxious. Let me guess...if we had Lamar Jackson at QB objs statline would be better ?
I don't think obj gets traded but if he does it better be a haul
Terps...your hate for obj is fucking exhausting. The guy is EASILY a top 5 WR in football. 95% of people would agree. The other 5% are you and NFC East fans who know nothing. The guy is a very good player and makes our team better...I'm only doing it if I get a massive haul. Cooper who is half the player obj is got a first rounder. I want Rosen, #33, #65 at minimum. Obj is a game changing player. Those aren't falling off trees. Chances are there won't be an obj in this draft either.
Your hate just makes you look like a clown, it's getting obnoxious. Let me guess...if we had Lamar Jackson at QB objs statline would be better ?
I don't think obj gets traded but if he does it better be a haul
Terps...your hate for obj is fucking exhausting. The guy is EASILY a top 5 WR in football. 95% of people would agree. The other 5% are you and NFC East fans who know nothing. The guy is a very good player and makes our team better...I'm only doing it if I get a massive haul. Cooper who is half the player obj is got a first rounder. I want Rosen, #33, #65 at minimum. Obj is a game changing player. Those aren't falling off trees. Chances are there won't be an obj in this draft either.
Your hate just makes you look like a clown, it's getting obnoxious. Let me guess...if we had Lamar Jackson at QB objs statline would be better ?
I don't think obj gets traded but if he does it better be a haul
OBJ, circa 2016, is indeed a top 5 WR.
Today? Tougher sell. I think Hopkins has distanced himself. Hill is more explosive. His ability to instantly hit top gear is inhuman right now. Brown is great. Im not a Jones guy, but hes a physical freak. And I have no problem taking a stand that JuJu SS is now a top receiver. I predict the Steelers wont miss a beat without Brown because JuJu will step right into the role.
So until OBJ is OBJ again, hes OBJ light. I didnt see the the explosive first step or the uncanny ability to run away from defenders - yet. And its really a guess if it ever returns. Are you sure its coming back?
Which makes this an ideal time to trade, but with realistic returns. No way will there be multiple ones, etc. Id take a two and a three, and if willing a live body.
Fortunately this is turning into an excellent draft for WRs. There is no OBJ, but there is a lot of quality that will be very productive. And cheaper...
Terps...your hate for obj is fucking exhausting. The guy is EASILY a top 5 WR in football. 95% of people would agree. The other 5% are you and NFC East fans who know nothing. The guy is a very good player and makes our team better...I'm only doing it if I get a massive haul. Cooper who is half the player obj is got a first rounder. I want Rosen, #33, #65 at minimum. Obj is a game changing player. Those aren't falling off trees. Chances are there won't be an obj in this draft either.
Your hate just makes you look like a clown, it's getting obnoxious. Let me guess...if we had Lamar Jackson at QB objs statline would be better ?
I don't think obj gets traded but if he does it better be a haul
OBJ, circa 2016, is indeed a top 5 WR.
Today? Tougher sell. I think Hopkins has distanced himself. Hill is more explosive. His ability to instantly hit top gear is inhuman right now. Brown is great. Im not a Jones guy, but hes a physical freak. And I have no problem taking a stand that JuJu SS is now a top receiver. I predict the Steelers wont miss a beat without Brown because JuJu will step right into the role.
So until OBJ is OBJ again, hes OBJ light. I didnt see the the explosive first step or the uncanny ability to run away from defenders - yet. And its really a guess if it ever returns. Are you sure its coming back?
Which makes this an ideal time to trade, but with realistic returns. No way will there be multiple ones, etc. Id take a two and a three, and if willing a live body.
Fortunately this is turning into an excellent draft for WRs. There is no OBJ, but there is a lot of quality that will be very productive. And cheaper...
You and terps out here competing for biggest Moron.
A 2 and 3?!?!
Cooper got a 1....you're saying Cooper is better? Stop.
We may sneak out a one, so Id certainly take it. I just dont see a blockbuster package.
As for Cooper, hes not coming off a major injury. Not suggesting hes better, but hes a damn good, younger, and healthier. Plus, I think his trade with Dallas needs to be looked at in full context - Dallas was desperate, so that drove his price up. So its probably a bit of an outlier...
We may sneak out a one, so Id certainly take it. I just dont see a blockbuster package.
As for Cooper, hes not coming off a major injury. Not suggesting hes better, but hes a damn good, younger, and healthier. Plus, I think his trade with Dallas needs to be looked at in full context - Dallas was desperate, so that drove his price up. So its probably a bit of an outlier...
Desperate for that final piece, it was mid-season.
Gotta be realistic, even if he was playing at 2016 level, he isnt on a 2016 contract either. His value is significantly less than this time last year.
oh boy, someone sure got under Glazer's skin...BBI what did you do?
"For all you fucksticks who spewed shit at me, my kid, my mom, my moms kid, my kids mom, my head size, body size, intelligence, my moms intelligence all because I made a prediction about your team today save your ridiculous fuckin insults for shit that matters in life."
He was the leading receiver with 900 yards in 16 games on his 150 targets? Ok. He still sucks and not worth anything close to thta contract. Miami made the right move. Cleveland didnt. Still could be cut after next year.
I thought Gordon and Coleman would be there and the TE would play a bigger role. Wrong across the board here. Not wrong on Landrys severely overrated game.
Today? Tougher sell. I think Hopkins has distanced himself. Hill is more explosive. His ability to instantly hit top gear is inhuman right now. Brown is great. Im not a Jones guy, but hes a physical freak. And I have no problem taking a stand that JuJu SS is now a top receiver. I predict the Steelers wont miss a beat without Brown because JuJu will step right into the role.
So until OBJ is OBJ again, hes OBJ light. I didnt see the the explosive first step or the uncanny ability to run away from defenders - yet. And its really a guess if it ever returns. Are you sure its coming back?
Which makes this an ideal time to trade, but with realistic returns. No way will there be multiple ones, etc. Id take a two and a three, and if willing a live body."
Didn't I post a link to an OBJ highlights video for 2018 a bit back?
Didn't he ALWAYS have double coverage assigned him somehow, a safety over the top, a virtual cage of defenders around him on damn near every reception of his highlights tape?
So how the fuck you figure he's bring covered when it's NOT part of his highlights reel?
OBJ gets respect from opposition DC as if he is very much a top 5 WR. And that is why he makes less big plays than he once did - at least it's the main reason.
Don't be stupid and formulate your narrative based on stats; watch the tape.
RE: oh boy, someone sure got under Glazer's skin...BBI what did you do?
"For all you fucksticks who spewed shit at me, my kid, my mom, my moms kid, my kids mom, my head size, body size, intelligence, my moms intelligence all because I made a prediction about your team today save your ridiculous fuckin insults for shit that matters in life."
Still a top 5 WR even after a devastating injury and terrible QB play. Pairing him and Barkley with a young QB for the few years we can is the smart thing to do. But it would be so John Mara-like to trade him and keep trotting Elis washed up corpse out there... 2018 Film OBJ - ( New Window )
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the Giants been saddled with the worst fucking offensive line since OBJ has been here?
Giants have to be real, real careful about trading this guy. Frankly, I was hugely disappointed when we drafted OBJ over Aaron Donald, but OBJ is still a big time play-maker that defenses have to be aware of on every single snap.
You just don't replace a guy like that! Very hard to do!!!
@JayGlazer
10h10 hours ago
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For all you fucksticks who spewed shit at me, my kid, my mom, my moms kid, my kids mom, my head size, body size, intelligence, my moms intelligence all because I made a prediction about your team today save your ridiculous fuckin insults for shit that matters in life.
Didn't I post a link to an OBJ highlights video for 2018 a bit back?
Didn't he ALWAYS have double coverage assigned him somehow, a safety over the top, a virtual cage of defenders around him on damn near every reception of his highlights tape?
So how the fuck you figure he's bring covered when it's NOT part of his highlights reel?
OBJ gets respect from opposition DC as if he is very much a top 5 WR. And that is why he makes less big plays than he once did - at least it's the main reason.
Don't be stupid and formulate your narrative based on stats; watch the tape.
OBJ has been getting extra coverage for a long time. Thats hardly new.
Where did I mention any stats? I said OBJ didnt appear to be all the way back from injury. I didnt see the same explosiveness. Did I expect that would take time? Absolutely.
Maybe, though, he never returns to full form. And thats my point. 90% of the original OBJ is still very good. But its not unique. Fortunately finding good receivers is easier than ever. And this draft has s deep, excellent supply. So this might be the ideal time to unload him.
In OBJs defense, btw, he may not want to play anymore with a 38 year old QB with eroding skills. It was very obvious last year he got very frustrated with Elis inability to find him and take the check down. I also got the sense he doesnt like playing second fiddle in the offense. Barkley is clearly going to get a larger role and that will likely reduce OBJs touches even more. That could create some real friction...
He understood very well when stating, That s a hard question to answer, in response to the question, Do you want to be in New York?, right after signing his contract, would create negative controversy.
He also understands his recent tweets with a Goat emoji would create even more drama
There is even speculation that a goat emoji is meant to be associated with a RAM........./ It s different out here? -
Not really a stretch to believe this guy wants out.
I think there is a certainly a possibility this happens during this off season
RE: Looks like roid rage has hit Glazer pretty hard
@JayGlazer
10h10 hours ago
More
For all you fucksticks who spewed shit at me, my kid, my mom, my moms kid, my kids mom, my head size, body size, intelligence, my moms intelligence all because I made a prediction about your team today save your ridiculous fuckin insults for shit that matters in life.
Why is it roid rage? If people are attacking his family, then he can't respond this way? He is right...
but responding in that way is only going to get those people targeted harder. The people who do shit like that on Twitter aren't exactly a reasonable bunch.
He understood very well when stating, That s a hard question to answer, in response to the question, Do you want to be in New York?, right after signing his contract, would create negative controversy.
He also understands his recent tweets with a Goat emoji would create even more drama
There is even speculation that a goat emoji is meant to be associated with a RAM........./ It s different out here? -
Not really a stretch to believe this guy wants out.
I think there is a certainly a possibility this happens during this off season
He's the same after the injury honestly. He was still solid and very good in some games but that game breaking ability doesn't appear to be there anymore, whether it's physical or mental I'm not sure. I'd see what i can get for him, we have had one winning season with him in the fold and he just doesn't seem like a fit with this regime.
could he re-negotiate his contract (reduce the contract), be traded, then re-do the contract with his new team. Like if OBJ and both teams were in agreement. Could that be worked out?
Disclaimer: Not that I am advocating a trade or not. I'm just curious. I am not saying it's something OBJ would consider or not either. Just a thought.
He was the leading receiver with 900 yards in 16 games on his 150 targets? Ok. He still sucks and not worth anything close to thta contract. Miami made the right move. Cleveland didnt. Still could be cut after next year.
I thought Gordon and Coleman would be there and the TE would play a bigger role. Wrong across the board here. Not wrong on Landrys severely overrated game.
LOL, you literally couldn't have been more wrong about basically everything in that thread. You made several claims - none of which came close to being true.
Just eat it and move on. You hate being wrong, I get it. But you struck out terribly there.
He doesn't suck. He was the same WR he was last year. You guys were killing him for his 8.8 YPR number last year and said all he did was catch bubble screens.
That number jumped back up to 12 this year.
He was the best WR on a team that won 7 more games this year than it did the year before without him there.
No one can ever just say "yeah, I was wrong" - there always has to be some sort of "yeah, but!"
OBJ may have lost something after the injury, but he made some fantastic catches last season. Maybe he can't break every play open like he did before, but he still commands double teams, gets open and he still has fantastic hands. This is a player you keep.
I also wouldn't be surprised if that "step" he seemed to have lost last season re-appears this September, with a full year gone by.
because he gives information about our team that we don't like, especially as it refers to his family. One thing that I always thought was a legitimate criticism is that he does work out with NFL players including Lane Johnson at his MMA gym in LA. I think given the issues that can occur that it would probably be best if he did not do that. Anyway, if the Giants trade OBJ they have to be the dumbest team on the planet unless we get back two first round picks which we will never get. So, my vote this is that this is a prediction that is wrong.
As Defenses start to focus on stopping Barkley, as they will have to do, the big plays will return.
I really only remember one play last year where he had space after the catch to do damage. I'm sure there were more, but it seems like he was blanketed pretty well on most receptions.
Glazer isn't one that is known to participate in the click-bait reporting that is common among our beat reporters. If he was inclined, it is a horrible effort to do so behind a paywall.
Also, this wasn't a just one-off comment that he said on a podcast or radio interview. He was given some questions (mailbag) and he chose this specific prediction to write his response. He has been connected in the industry and specifically to the Giants from before he became he is today. He doesn't need to make an outlandish claim to prop up a reputation.
top 5 cap hits for the NYG in 2019:
1.) Eli
2.) OBJ
Talk about not getting bang for your buck!
On top of that, we have a No. 2 pick at running back, and 2nd round pick at no. 2 receiver, and a 1st round pick at TE.
All for offensive production that hasn't better than mediocre since 2016.
I hate business analogies, but it you were investing this many resources in a department that was struggling this bad, you would make changes. And you would probably start without the highest earners who are producing the least (although yes OBJ has produced but he also hasn't stayed on the field).
Instead we've been playing organizational whack-a-mole, plugging holes that pop up because of bad investments elsewhere. Guess what? Once we finally shore up the offensive line and give them a year or two to get settled, Shep and Engram's contracts will have expired, and Barkley will be entering the final year of his rookie deal.
by Glazer that he cursed everybody out for after they threatened his kids?
5-11 nobody is untouchable. OBJ is as close as it gets though. And not so much because of his talent as his cap hit. It would have to be one hell of an offer. He's a top talent at his position. He's passionate about his game and winning. While he rarely gets in trouble for his mouth his actions can sometimes be questionable. He is oft been injured. Lets not cling to anybody too much OR be too ready to cast such rare talent off.
They have to have a plan that they stick to (unlike the recent Cleveland Browns Saga).
Glazer isn't one that is known to participate in the click-bait reporting that is common among our beat reporters. If he was inclined, it is a horrible effort to do so behind a paywall.
Also, this wasn't a just one-off comment that he said on a podcast or radio interview. He was given some questions (mailbag) and he chose this specific prediction to write his response. He has been connected in the industry and specifically to the Giants from before he became he is today. He doesn't need to make an outlandish claim to prop up a reputation.
Reporters often double as analysts, giving their opinion. A line exists between a reporter conducting news, and engaging in a 'bold prediction' question. Not everything a beat writer says means they know something unspoken. If you follow any of the Giants beat writers on twitter, they often give their opinions on subjects when asked. It doesn't mean they have insider knowledge, and they will often freely tell you they don't know anything behind it.
And this is the reason people on twitter jump down Glazer's throat. The average person seems to think that if you are recognized as a reporter, then everything that you say is a report based on fact. Sometimes it's just a thought or an idea.
He was the leading receiver with 900 yards in 16 games on his 150 targets? Ok. He still sucks and not worth anything close to thta contract. Miami made the right move. Cleveland didnt. Still could be cut after next year.
I thought Gordon and Coleman would be there and the TE would play a bigger role. Wrong across the board here. Not wrong on Landrys severely overrated game.
LOL, you literally couldn't have been more wrong about basically everything in that thread. You made several claims - none of which came close to being true.
Just eat it and move on. You hate being wrong, I get it. But you struck out terribly there.
He doesn't suck. He was the same WR he was last year. You guys were killing him for his 8.8 YPR number last year and said all he did was catch bubble screens.
That number jumped back up to 12 this year.
He was the best WR on a team that won 7 more games this year than it did the year before without him there.
No one can ever just say "yeah, I was wrong" - there always has to be some sort of "yeah, but!"
In this case, it's that he "sucks"
He doesn't suck. He's a good player.
Landry caught 54% of the passes thrown to him. He averaged 12.0 yards per catch. He needed 149 targets (10th in the NFL) to get to 976 yards and 4 TDs.
If this is true, he needs to be traded ASAP. He is no position to want anything.
this is what Odell wants
"I love Eli," Beckham told reporters when asked if he wanted him as his quarterback in 2019. "I've been with Eli - he's the first quarterback I've ever had in the league. I threw at him, Manning Camp, high school. There's a lot of things you want in life. You can't always get what you want, but at the end of the day I want him to be able to go home and talk trash to his brothers. When it's his time to go out, I want him to go out the right way."
By talking trash, Beckham means getting Manning that third Super Bowl ring to top his brother, Peyton, who collected two in his 15-year career.
"I want him to go out with a trophy so he can go home and, not rub it in their face, but he's got three rings, they got two, or whatever it is.," Beckham said. "That's what I want for him. That's how I want him to finish. It has nothing to do with me. It's not my call. I'm just a receiver. That's above my paygrade." Beckham wants Manning 'to go out with a trophy' - ( New Window )
He was the leading receiver with 900 yards in 16 games on his 150 targets? Ok. He still sucks and not worth anything close to thta contract. Miami made the right move. Cleveland didnt. Still could be cut after next year.
I thought Gordon and Coleman would be there and the TE would play a bigger role. Wrong across the board here. Not wrong on Landrys severely overrated game.
LOL, you literally couldn't have been more wrong about basically everything in that thread. You made several claims - none of which came close to being true.
Just eat it and move on. You hate being wrong, I get it. But you struck out terribly there.
He doesn't suck. He was the same WR he was last year. You guys were killing him for his 8.8 YPR number last year and said all he did was catch bubble screens.
That number jumped back up to 12 this year.
He was the best WR on a team that won 7 more games this year than it did the year before without him there.
No one can ever just say "yeah, I was wrong" - there always has to be some sort of "yeah, but!"
In this case, it's that he "sucks"
He doesn't suck. He's a good player.
Landry caught 54% of the passes thrown to him. He averaged 12.0 yards per catch. He needed 149 targets (10th in the NFL) to get to 976 yards and 4 TDs.
That is absolutely horrific.
Sure it is - when you just take numbers without context. You obviously watched zero Browns games.
This is generally what happens when you play with Tyrod Taylor and a rookie QB.
The percentage of balls a WR catches that are thrown to him aren't necessarily entirely dependent on the WR - I shouldn't need to explain that to you.
It's the same reason Michael Crabtree posted a career low catch % (54%) this year.
Julian Edelman was at the top of the league in dropped passes. He was the SB MVP.
Numbers without context are fun.
I can name 100 WR's in this league who suck. Landry isn't one of them.
couldn't odell just squash this rumor with a simple tweet? instead he tweets something further fanning the flames of speculation. maybe he's just bored and likes the attention, who knows..
couldn't odell just squash this rumor with a simple tweet? instead he tweets something further fanning the flames of speculation. maybe he's just bored and likes the attention, who knows..
Shouldn't it be Gettleman to squash the rumor. He is the only one who can trade OBJ. OBJ has no control.
That said, I'm sure he doesn't mind the attention and he seems to like to rile up his haters, which I find pretty funny. The looking at the solar eclipse bit was a pretty good gag that exposed a lot of people's bias and lack of critical thinking skills.
Is it someone else who openly questioned playing in New York, for the team that handed him millions of dollars, months after they handed it to him?
If you're being reasonable, it's pretty easy to see how the Giants could be really pissed off and maybe at a loss with the guy.
Constantly deal with immature behavior up to the start of contract negotiations, at which point the owner felt compelled to publicly comment (after another stupid public non-football issue) that it's time to grow up if it's going to work here. Add in all the attempts to make nice from the new regime in hopes of getting off on the right foot and two months off good behavior from Odell himself and we arrived at the happy new mega-deal.
It took a couple of months for Odell to make more headlines that included leaving much open for interpretation in terms of calling out coaches and playing for the organization that just handsomely rewarded him.
It's not hard to imagine John Mara questioning the organization's relationship with him at this point.
And obviously Beckham can only specifically address
I said Miami made the right move not paying the overrated Landry and getting 2 picks. Wasnt wrong there and that was the main point.
With the $$ sign a better player in Albert Wilson with more $$$$ to improve the team with other players. Miami was correct there too and so was I...Muwahahahaha
Yes he was the best WR on a team with no other WRs except a 4th round rookie who was banged up. They were looking at Dez Bryant and anything else they coke fish because they had nothing at the position. Mayfield had no help at Wr and that includes Landry and limited game and huge drops. He played like a nobody. A guy nobody cares about or bothers with in the game plan. That is Landry.
Browns have a lot of talent at every position except WR. Worst unit on the teamlead by the worst #1 WR in the NFlL.
If they could turn it into a building block OLT or edge. That said, were in the 2nd offseason of new regime and I cant say there is a clear plan in place. You sign Odell to highest contract for WR then trade him?
I said Miami made the right move not paying the overrated Landry and getting 2 picks. Wasnt wrong there and that was the main point.
With the $$ sign a better player in Albert Wilson with more $$$$ to improve the team with other players. Miami was correct there too and so was I...Muwahahahaha
Yes he was the best WR on a team with no other WRs except a 4th round rookie who was banged up. They were looking at Dez Bryant and anything else they coke fish because they had nothing at the position. Mayfield had no help at Wr and that includes Landry and limited game and huge drops. He played like a nobody. A guy nobody cares about or bothers with in the game plan. That is Landry.
Browns have a lot of talent at every position except WR. Worst unit on the teamlead by the worst #1 WR in the NFlL.
Albert Wilson missed half the season. He caught 26 passes in 7 games. You said he'd make Miami forget all about Landry and put perform him. Didn't happen.
Gotta be on the field to make a difference. Wilson was not on the field for more than half the season.
Would have made Miami a weaker team. Not wrong about that.
Wilson is a better player too. He got hurt. It happens.
I was 100% right that Miami made the right move not giving the cash to Landry. Was I wrong about Gordon, Coleman and the TE being bigger players in CLE? Yes. Are you right about Landry? Not close.
Cleveland? Pissed that money away on a severely limited olayer. If theyre smart, theyll fix the problem at the WR position this off season. If they do they can make the playoffs.
Landry is one of those most overpaid guys in the league right now. Another season like he just had and CLE will cut him to avoid the Guaranteed money that kicks in at the start of 2020 season. Hes worth maybe 4-5 million. Not the $13 million+ that would guaranteed for the 2020 season.
Put both players on the market right now and every single team would offer Landry more money .
Wilson is a one trick pony who had 1 really big game - every other week he did nothing but catch 2-3 balls. He's a guy you can hit big plays with here and there, but you'll never get consistency out of him. They didn't get it in KC, and Miami won't get that from him either. He's not a #1. Not even a starter, really.
I was on the money about what Landry's role would be in Cleveland. You couldn't have been more wrong.
Overpaid and ineffective? I missed where you posted that.
BTW, what is Wilsons one trick? He can do many things. Going forward hes the better player and a much better value. Every team would not take Landry over Wilson. Miami didnt. And they were right.
No, the one where I said he'd be their top target and the part where I laughed at your hilarious insistence that he'd have a "60%" cut in targets. (There was basically a 0% cut if you were keeping track)
Wilson's best season in the NFL right now is a 42 catch, 550 yard, 3 touchdown season. He's managed 16 games one time in his 5 year career.
And you're not reading what I wrote. I said every team would offer Landry more money than Wilson - meaning if they were putting a value on each player, Landry would get significantly more money. I don't need to prove that because it just happened last year and it would happen again right now.
Wilson is a nobody. Most of the games he's played in this league, he's been a total non factor.
He's a guy who catches 3 balls for 35 yards most weeks. Hell, against NE he was even able to turn 4 catches into 19 yards!
Cleveland just hired a guy for no other reason than Mayfield likes him.
I completely agree that Cleveland has more talent, but I think Miami hit with their coach. I don't think Cleveland did. And as we saw with the Giants in 2018 a shitty head coach will undercut talent.
Even with that, the rookies they had were injured often. They had nothing at WR all year except Landry. You measure his success or effectiveness by the number of targets? Thats a joke.
He wasnt effective. Lead the NFL in drips. Doesnt get open. Caught barely half the balls his way. Very few big plays on the 150 opportunities. If they are smart, theyll bring players in to give this opportunities to in 2019.
The contract and Trade by CLE was terrible. He proved he wasnt worth it. Chances of CLE cutting him after 2 season? Id say very good.
When the contract first came out it was $45 mill guaranteed but a nice chunk of that requires Landry on the 2020 roster in week 1. He wont make it. Hes a 4 million/year player making 15+. Awful move by CLE which we saw this year by his awful performance.
Wilson? That guy gets open. Wide open. I forget the site but there is one out there that measures separation and hes at the top of the league. They get a QB hell put up the bug numbers and become one of the best values at his posttion. Just the opposite of Landry who is clearly one of the worst values at any position in the NFL.
You are strange guy to figure out. You will always find a way to bash the Giants. You will point to the contracts they gave out, not drafting a QB, etc..
Now the Browns look to be trending upwards, drafted a potential franchise QB, who is cost controlled (I know that is big for you), have a competent GM in place, cap room to spend, etc... Basically, they have everything you so adamantly bash the Giants for
Yet you would go with Miami? Who have no plan at QB, a new coach who is a Belichick disciple and no real talent on the roster.
You are strange guy to figure out. You will always find a way to bash the Giants. You will point to the contracts they gave out, not drafting a QB, etc..
Now the Browns look to be trending upwards, drafted a potential franchise QB, who is cost controlled (I know that is big for you), have a competent GM in place, cap room to spend, etc... Basically, they have everything you so adamantly bash the Giants for
Yet you would go with Miami? Who have no plan at QB, a new coach who is a Belichick disciple and no real talent on the roster.
I think Cleveland made a big mistake with their coaching hire.
Finally getting a return on all of the high picks means nothing on the question of Landrys value and the judgment of that one trade they made. Weak point.
Yes Id take CLE roster over Miami too and it has nothing to do with Landry.
You are strange guy to figure out. You will always find a way to bash the Giants. You will point to the contracts they gave out, not drafting a QB, etc..
Now the Browns look to be trending upwards, drafted a potential franchise QB, who is cost controlled (I know that is big for you), have a competent GM in place, cap room to spend, etc... Basically, they have everything you so adamantly bash the Giants for
Yet you would go with Miami? Who have no plan at QB, a new coach who is a Belichick disciple and no real talent on the roster.
I think Cleveland made a big mistake with their coaching hire.
The guy who just won RoY and had one of the best years ever for a rookie RB?
Uh.. okay. Sure. Shurmur totally sabotaged him.
A lot of those yards, especially as a receiver, were empty. There were over a dozen running backs who were more efficiently and effectively used as a receiver. I broke that down on another thread; I don't feel like doing it again.
Albert Wilson gets so wide open that he catches 3 passes a game. Maybe after 5 more years someone will figure this out and stop staring at the WR standing all by himself all the time.
The way you're overrating this guy to make a point is getting silly. He's done absolutely nothing of note in this league in 5 years. Casual fans wouldn't even know who he was.
I also didn't measure Landry's effectiveness by his targets - again, poor reading comp by you - I said the idea that he'd see a 60% cut was a complete joke. You said he'd be all bent out of shape and see little usage there - not close to true.
Here's what I said...
Quote:
He's absolutely not going to be the "4th option" there. He's better than Coleman (who can't even stay healthy) and he's a better pass catcher than Johnson Jr.
He will lead the team in catches this season. Book it.
The guy who just won RoY and had one of the best years ever for a rookie RB?
Uh.. okay. Sure. Shurmur totally sabotaged him.
A lot of those yards, especially as a receiver, were empty. There were over a dozen running backs who were more efficiently and effectively used as a receiver. I broke that down on another thread; I don't feel like doing it again.
The guy had a record-setting season and you're still unhappy with his production. What do you expect? 150 catches? 3000 yards?
He produced plenty. That's the bottom line. Efficiency is not something directly attributed to the coach and the player - there are 21 other guys on the field at all times who impact that.
PFF is what it is - but they ranked him the top RB in the entire league in 2018.
I get that you don't like the coach, but the way you're bending over backwards to avoid giving him any credit for anything and find every way other the sun to make things his fault is exhausting.
Barkley was sensational in year 1. No one on the planet who watched would argue anything other than that.
He made plays and showed plenty of ability. Miami liked him for a bigger role. They gave him a nice deal and it wasnt based on doing nothing.
The Bears and his former coach wanted him too.
I liked Wilson before this Landry thing with you. I thought the Giants should have made him a priority as a young guy with unique skills who could develop on his 2nd contract.
There are like 30+ WR's making better money than Wilson, and he got his deal more recently than many of them. He's nothing more than a complimentary WR. Maclin and Hill routinely outperformed him in KC by wide margins. Wilson isn't even in Tyreek Hill's class.
I didn't say he's done nothing - I said he's done nothing of note. He hasn't! There's literally no accomplishment you can point to for Albert Wilson as a player. He's earned zero awards, he's not a #1, he's barely even on anyone's radar in terms of the true WR talent in this league. He's never been on an all pro team, an all rookie team, he's never been considered a top 100 player.
Albert Wilson averages 2.4 receptions per game.
Let's just end the nonsense right there. He's not an impact WR no matter how many times you tell me "he gets so open!"
When Jarvis Landry is doubling Wilson's production like he's been doing their entire careers, we can revisit. :)
The one part of the argument I agree with is that Wilson could provide better contractual value.
Landry is making too much for the player he is - but that's unfortunately true of most guys who get new deals in this league. He doesn't suck like you guys keep saying he does. He's just not as good as the guys making comparable money like Hopkins or Diggs.
Albert Wilson strikes me more as a specialist than a regular starter
He's massively overpaid as the 7th highest paid WR. He's a younger Golden Tate and if we being paid that type of $$ (adjusted for "inflation") he'd be a fine value. So something more in the $8-10M range.
He's still a much better player than Albert Wilson, who at $8M per is also well overpaid. He might be a better "value" than Landry but he's at best a low end #2 WR.
RE: Albert Wilson strikes me more as a specialist than a regular starter
He's massively overpaid as the 7th highest paid WR. He's a younger Golden Tate and if we being paid that type of $$ (adjusted for "inflation") he'd be a fine value. So something more in the $8-10M range.
He's still a much better player than Albert Wilson, who at $8M per is also well overpaid. He might be a better "value" than Landry but he's at best a low end #2 WR.
And I agree with this entire post.
I don't feel that a team as crappy as the Giants are
Wilson gets the snaps, hell produce. He was averaging 25 snaps/game in first 4 weeks with the new team but it doubled as he was getting a bigger role. Hes more than a 1 trick guy. Im going with Wilson as the better player and much better value. And I would bet on Landry getting cut next year before that guarantee kicks in. It will be a 2 year deal in CLE for Landry.
Wilson gets the snaps, hell produce. He was averaging 25 snaps/game in first 4 weeks with the new team but it doubled as he was getting a bigger role. Hes more than a 1 trick guy. Im going with Wilson as the better player and much better value. And I would bet on Landry getting cut next year before that guarantee kicks in. It will be a 2 year deal in CLE for Landry.
Your argument was that Landry sucks, not that he was overrated.
Dealing him before June 1st would create 16M in dead cap for this year - dealing him after June 1st would create 4M in dead cap for this year AND 12M in dead cap for 2020.
The time to trade Beckham has passed. It would be moronic to turn around and do it now.
Thanks arc. It is stunning that so-called journalists dont take cap implications into account when evaluating this stuff.
My point was more than simply the guy sucks. Severely overrated and limited player. As.a #1 WR he sucks and I wouldnt pay him anything close to the cash a #1 gets. That was the point. Hes not a tough cover. He can make tough catches. But hes small and slow. Everything is contested. He sucks to me when he gets compared to top players. Or impact guys. #1 WR? Hes at the bottom. Compared to the #1s he sucks,! In my opinion, hes not one but hes paid like it.
My point all along was Miami should hot have paid him and nobody should. Once the trade was made they would be the big winners in the trade, getting picks and the cap space for better talent/value). And that it was a terrible move for CLE (which his play in 18 didnt change).
I also like the move MIA made of signing Wilson (who I think is better and would make MIA a better team going forward) and they still had an extra $10mill/year for another player.
Wilson gets the snaps, hell produce. He was averaging 25 snaps/game in first 4 weeks with the new team but it doubled as he was getting a bigger role. Hes more than a 1 trick guy. Im going with Wilson as the better player and much better value. And I would bet on Landry getting cut next year before that guarantee kicks in. It will be a 2 year deal in CLE for Landry.
A) why 149 targets? Why not 100 or 150? I don't have a horse in this race but when I see something like that it wreaks of an agenda and I immediately dismiss the argument. Holy random.
B) one guy draws double teams and number one cover corners. The other guy isn't on the field enough to warrant game planning
Wilson gets the snaps, hell produce. He was averaging 25 snaps/game in first 4 weeks with the new team but it doubled as he was getting a bigger role. Hes more than a 1 trick guy. Im going with Wilson as the better player and much better value. And I would bet on Landry getting cut next year before that guarantee kicks in. It will be a 2 year deal in CLE for Landry.
Your argument was that Landry sucks, not that he was overrated.
He'll just move the goalposts until he can find somewhere to stick his flag. If you go back to the thread from last year, you'll see that he as wrong about pretty much everything he predicted - many of those predictions weren't even close to true.
Next year we'll be talking about how open Albert Wilson gets again but blame something like poor QB play for sabotaging him.
I guess because Landry saw 149 targets last year, that's the arbitrary measuring stick - we're using those 149 targets but not a different 149 targets from other years. It's just argument re-framing to find something not to be wrong about at this point.
I never said Landry wasn't overpaid. Hell, Wilson's actual contract value may prove to be better - but at equal value, no exec is taking Wilson over Landry. You can do whatever you want to trick yourself into believing otherwise, but no one would. Landry is the better player with all things being equal.
Wilson isn't even the best WR on his team. Kenny Stills is better than he is and has had a better career to date.
Landry was the best WR on every Dolphins team he played for and was again the top WR in Cleveland - not the 4th option which was a hilariously off-base proclamation.
RE: RE: This is based off the Market Brown will set
But I highly doubt cap wise it would be even feasible to trade him. There would probably be an insane dead money hit since his contract is so new and they would be paying it for years.
IF that 16 million number is true it is absolutely feasible, especially if it brings back 2-3 cost controlled players. This team isn't going to anywhere next year regardless. Could be a signal that they don't like the QBs this year and want ammo for next year.
you might just be right about this, if the team does decide to keep Eli for next season it sort of means they are writing it off and don't expect much and so it them makes sense to try to see how they can load up for 2020.....
Landry had 149 targets last year. So I found Wilsons last 149 to compare.
Wilson needed 3 years to reach 149 targets.
Wilson's snap count jumped (doubled) in the 3 games before he was injured last year. He's a tough guy to cover. He can catch and he's a strong runner.
I know I'm in the minority here but I think he has great upside and can be a better player than Landry (who I think is one of the most overrated players in the NFL). I really wanted Wilson to the Giants last year.
He hit FA and there was a lot more interest then I expected. He got a very nice deal from MIA. I think he makes them a better team straight up with Landry. Factor in the $$$$ savings and the picks they got from CLE and its a big win for MIA.
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Glazer 'bold prediction' is Giants trade OBJ
This would make zero sense.
The time to trade Beckham has passed. It would be moronic to turn around and do it now.
I want Beckham here but again, what else is DG going to say? And is he not allowed to reassess? Maybe something happened.
It either happens or it doesn't. Taking these crumbs to find their meaning is a fools errand.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤
https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
Maybe we can get Lamar Jackson for him straight up!!!! Might have to throw in our first rounder after that playoff performance though
Quote:
But better late than never.
Maybe we can get Lamar Jackson for him straight up!!!! Might have to throw in our first rounder after that playoff performance though
Which dupe are you? I get a strong kmed vibe, but I'm not sure. You're definitely a regular.
Shepard has shown that he's not a #1 receiver. All the others on the roster are barely #3 receivers and I'm not sure they are that good.
So, they're going to trade one of the best receivers in the NFL and replace him with Fowler or Lattimer? GTFOH
Quote:
that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
I can't acccess that, but if thats the case the thread really should be deleted.
Huh? The thread says Glazer predicts a trade. The linked article has Glazer predicting a trade. Why should the thread be deleted, it's completely accurate.
Shepard has shown that he's not a #1 receiver. All the others on the roster are barely #3 receivers and I'm not sure they are that good.
So, they're going to trade one of the best receivers in the NFL and replace him with Fowler or Lattimer? GTFOH
You wouldn't. The only way I trade Beckham now is if I also cut Eli and literally tank 2019. You then get to "do over" in 2020 with an improved OLine/Dline and Barkley. I wouldn't be opposed to it personally, but I wouldn't want it half assed. Get rid of everyone not in our future plans and just eat the salary cap all at once (or as much as possible at once) and be done with it.
Never going to happen in an NY market, but its what I'd do if I had to move Beckham.
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I can't acccess that, but if thats the case the thread really should be deleted.
Huh? The thread says Glazer predicts a trade. The linked article has Glazer predicting a trade. Why should the thread be deleted, it's completely accurate.
Sanders was claiming it was idle speculation. When Jay Glazer and the word prediction is used you can almost guarantee it will happen as he has some inside information.
Quote:
WHO?
Shepard has shown that he's not a #1 receiver. All the others on the roster are barely #3 receivers and I'm not sure they are that good.
So, they're going to trade one of the best receivers in the NFL and replace him with Fowler or Lattimer? GTFOH
You wouldn't. The only way I trade Beckham now is if I also cut Eli and literally tank 2019. You then get to "do over" in 2020 with an improved OLine/Dline and Barkley. I wouldn't be opposed to it personally, but I wouldn't want it half assed. Get rid of everyone not in our future plans and just eat the salary cap all at once (or as much as possible at once) and be done with it.
Never going to happen in an NY market, but its what I'd do if I had to move Beckham.
This would be the year to do it. Good QB class next year. Get a #1 this year a #1 next year and maybe one extra pick next year. Not going to happen, but it's what Oakland did. And it's why I can see them moving on from Carr.
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that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
Glazer isn't a shit thrower.
IF that 16 million number is true it is absolutely feasible, especially if it brings back 2-3 cost controlled players. This team isn't going to anywhere next year regardless. Could be a signal that they don't like the QBs this year and want ammo for next year.
I predict Odell Beckham Jr. gets traded this off-season. I think thats bold enough.
Anything that he has heard my not qualify for bold so he speculated. There's nothing to this at this point.
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In comment 14295551 JonC said:
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that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
Glazer isn't a shit thrower.
but there is a difference between a prediction and a rumor. And this is clearly a prediction.
Pre 6/1 trade...
16M dead money this year, 5M savings
Post 6/1 trade...
4M dead money 2019, 12M dead money in 2020, 17M savings in 2019.
Why sign him at all if you're just going to turn around and pile more dead money into the cap figure? Doesn't really make sense.
Quote:
WHO?
Shepard has shown that he's not a #1 receiver. All the others on the roster are barely #3 receivers and I'm not sure they are that good.
So, they're going to trade one of the best receivers in the NFL and replace him with Fowler or Lattimer? GTFOH
You wouldn't. The only way I trade Beckham now is if I also cut Eli and literally tank 2019. You then get to "do over" in 2020 with an improved OLine/Dline and Barkley. I wouldn't be opposed to it personally, but I wouldn't want it half assed. Get rid of everyone not in our future plans and just eat the salary cap all at once (or as much as possible at once) and be done with it.
Never going to happen in an NY market, but its what I'd do if I had to move Beckham.
That's how I view it, other than cutting Eli and trading away Beckham for a full on tank, what's the point in trading him now? The timing is also curious, why is present day the proper time to trade him? Why wasn't this done in the 2018 offseason and why wasn't a full reboot undertaken at that time.
Trading him now doesn't seem to comport with the 2018 and present strategy.
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In comment 14295551 JonC said:
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that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
Glazer isn't a shit thrower.
Schefter isn't either and he said OBJ was traded to the Rams last March.
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But I highly doubt cap wise it would be even feasible to trade him. There would probably be an insane dead money hit since his contract is so new and they would be paying it for years.
IF that 16 million number is true it is absolutely feasible, especially if it brings back 2-3 cost controlled players. This team isn't going to anywhere next year regardless. Could be a signal that they don't like the QBs this year and want ammo for next year.
Imagine they get a 1 and a 3 for him and a conditional 2021 pick (2 or 3). That would set them up to move around the board next year.
Pre 6/1 trade...
16M dead money this year, 5M savings
Post 6/1 trade...
4M dead money 2019, 12M dead money in 2020, 17M savings in 2019.
Why sign him at all if you're just going to turn around and pile more dead money into the cap figure? Doesn't really make sense.
It doesnt, unless the ESPN interview Beckham made really pissed off Mara/DG/PS.
It's doable, capwise. They'd actually save $5M in that regard. A lot of the guaranteed money was in base salaries rather than a monster signing bonus.
Exactly, nothing in that article tells me hes basing this on anything hes heard.
Agreed. I do not want to tradr Beckham but Glazer is always on point with his info. If it wasn't a possibility then I don't think he would have said anything.
Yeah that didnt happen but keep grasping
Quote:
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
Yeah that didnt happen but keep grasping
What didnt happen ?
Yeah, Beckham definitely got the training staff and doctors to make up fake reports so he wasn't allowed to practice.
Really hate "contributions" like this.
What... the fuck did I just read?
Mara stupidly believed that a couple of quiet months leading up to his pay day was a sign of maturity. The best time to trade him was last year's draft but as Terps said, better late than never.
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In comment 14295621 NikkiMac said:
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Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
Yeah that didnt happen but keep grasping
What didnt happen ?
Any of the dogshit nonsense that just came out of your mouth
Yeah - a completely made up story that sounded like it was written by a 3rd grader.
Asshole.
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In comment 14295628 Ssanders9816 said:
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In comment 14295621 NikkiMac said:
Quote:
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
Yeah that didnt happen but keep grasping
What didnt happen ?
Any of the dogshit nonsense that just came out of your mouth
Well sir you shoot dogshit out of your mouth all the time so you should be used to it
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In comment 14295568 Ssanders9816 said:
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In comment 14295551 JonC said:
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that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
Glazer isn't a shit thrower.
Schefter isn't either and he said OBJ was traded to the Rams last March.
Schefter does what suits his and ESPN's purpose, it's a bit different than Glazer's pot.
And that is why I thought it should be deleted and reposted. While technically factually accurate, when Jay Glazer and prediction are used it generally alludes to a situation that is near imminent or at the very least has some serious legs.
Either Beckham's injury took him down a notch from elite status and the Giants are premptively trying to recoup what they can from his contract, both in terms of cap and draft capital.
..or..
The Giants have had enough of Beckham's personality and want him elsewhere. If this is the case, and he goes on to play well elsewhere, it'll just be another sign that this team doesn't know WTF it's doing.
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In comment 14295568 Ssanders9816 said:
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In comment 14295551 JonC said:
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that usually means he's heard something relatively solid.
No it doesnt. Its pure speculation. Guys heres the Athletic article. Like I said 💤💤💤💤💤 https://theathletic.com/815950/2019/02/13/jay-glazer-nfl-offseason-mailbag-trade-market/ - ( New Window )
Glazer isn't a shit thrower.
but there is a difference between a prediction and a rumor. And this is clearly a prediction.
Fair enough, but I'm telling you Glazer is a different animal than the general head.
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Predictions are not reporting. Someone asked him for a bold prediction. It does not in any way make financial sense for the Giants to do it.
And that is why I thought it should be deleted and reposted. While technically factually accurate, when Jay Glazer and prediction are used it generally alludes to a situation that is near imminent or at the very least has some serious legs.
If it were near imminent, he would have ran with it as an actual piece, not a mailbag throw in.
Either Beckham's injury took him down a notch from elite status and the Giants are premptively trying to recoup what they can from his contract, both in terms of cap and draft capital.
..or..
The Giants have had enough of Beckham's personality and want him elsewhere. If this is the case, and he goes on to play well elsewhere, it'll just be another sign that this team doesn't know WTF it's doing.
Maybe Beckham pushed the leak? He has seen a lot of losing seasons in NY
The economics of it are bad right now... So I am guessing not.
Correct. It's a bit different with Glazer and Fox, their football presence is much smaller during the offseason.
I'm not saying it's imminent based off this prediction, but Glazer isn't typically one who invents info to suit himself.
Overpay by a lot.
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I wrote asshole
Go fuck yourself and take a course on having and showing some respect on other peoples opinions .... who the fuck are you....another internet warrior because I know you wouldnt talk to me like that to my face punk
Yeah - a completely made up story that sounded like it was written by a 3rd grader.
Asshole.
Either fetch a 1st or 2nd for him, and use/package it to grab a QB in addition to an edge rusher or OL with the sixth.
Feeling very good about Gettleman if this is true.
but you are going to have a beer tonight.
Either fetch a 1st or 2nd for him, and use/package it to grab a QB in addition to an edge rusher or OL with the sixth.
Feeling very good about Gettleman if this is true.
Are you serious? Gettleman would look like a complete ass doing this. Here's 91 mill, now go to another team and we'll have no #1 WR, huge dead cap hit and still an aged QB and shitty OL. It makes zero sense and this was not a serious prediction on Glazer's part.
The 2011 offense featured a 1st, 4th, 7th, and two undrafted free agents in the lineup.
We theoretically wouldn't still have an aged QB and shitty OL because the return on OBJ can help us shore up either or both.
I agree though that trading him last year would've made better sense if this rumor was true.
Really going out on a limb there, Terps
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I suspect trading Beckham would have to be OK'd (or requested) by Mara.
Really going out on a limb there, Terps
I know I'm not, but we have posters saying Gettleman would be an ass for doing it. I'm not a Gettleman fan, but knocking him for trading Beckham doesn't make much sense to me.
As it's turning out, this is an excellent draft for receivers. So for the long-run, we have a chance to find some real quality.
What a trade market this could be - AB or OBJ.
An older, self-involved, there-is-ME in team jackass (AB) or a younger, self-involved jackass coming off a major injury (OBJ).
My thought: DG maybe isn't cutting Eli, but he's definitely bringing in serious competition. I imagine he sees the value in the OL and edge rushers this draft but also doesn't want to futz about and wait until 2020 to address the QB situation. Ergo, move an asset for more draft capital
whoa whoa, OBJ may have problems, but at least he didn't almost kill a toddler. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/antonio-brown-steelers-wide-receiver-accused-nearly-hitting-toddler-furniture-thrown-from-balcony-2018-10-09/
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In comment 14295640 NikkiMac said:
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I wrote asshole
Go fuck yourself and take a course on having and showing some respect on other peoples opinions .... who the fuck are you....another internet warrior because I know you wouldnt talk to me like that to my face punk
Yeah - a completely made up story that sounded like it was written by a 3rd grader.
Asshole.
The first thing taught in that class would be respect is earned before it's given.
Your made up nonsense post deserves no respect. It wasn't an opinion, it was stated as fact but it's pure fiction that frankly borders on delusion.
Did you forget the doctors never cleared OBJ to play or just decide to omit that from any reasonable thinking before posting your nonsense?
what did Eli say that would make you think this would make him retire?
No
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starts taking at the Giants. If we were to take Eli at his word he would just retire, which we know will never happen.
what did Eli say that would make you think this would make him retire?
"If Eli is done playing, I'm fine with it," Archie told ESPN's Ian O'Connor. "But if he comes back, the Giants have got to win. They can't go through another season like this."
Saying he expects the Giants to make moves to win in the short term if Eli comes back. Trading Odell would be the opposite of that.
Not that it's worthy of rereading but his first line about DG and Shurmur not liking OBJ sitting out the four games was most certainly posted as a fact and not an opinion. At least that's the way it came off to me. There was no "I think" or IMO, or anything like it.
If this was true (and I think it was probably delivered with more nuance than this) I don't see why you wouldn't release Eli, given DG's tough reputation. You don't just sacrifice long-term team goals to pad your QBs career W/L record.
You're right and I was mistaken. He said he had a feeling in his title and I just read his post and not that part.
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
Guess you missed the time we won with Plaxico Burress
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
So youre saying he DIDNT CHANGE after he signed his new contract? Proof of this?
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
First off... putting AB and OBJ in the same category as far as distractions is ridiculous. AB is a bad dude.
Second... also silly to talk about elite WRs not winning super bowls..
Julio Jones should have won
Randy Moss could have won if not for Eli
Marvin Harrison won
TO did everything possible and could have won if not for McNabb losing his lunch
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but diva WR's do not win championships. I wanted to trade him before we re-signed him, but I also got suckered into thinking he changed and he was worth the money.
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
Guess you missed the time we won with Plaxico Burress
Or that SB winning catch by Santonio Holmes
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In comment 14295743 dank41 said:
Quote:
but diva WR's do not win championships. I wanted to trade him before we re-signed him, but I also got suckered into thinking he changed and he was worth the money.
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
Guess you missed the time we won with Plaxico Burress
Or that SB winning catch by Santonio Holmes
Demaryius Thomas, Hakeem Nicks
And then if the argument is "none of those guys are on the level of AB/OBJ"...then the question is, who is?
Too funny
GTFO with him being a distraction or anything close to Antonio Brown. Enough!
If you want to argue the merits for moving an asset like him for more need, fine. But everyone here saying he's a headache is completely off.
However, if it is true and the Giants trade OBJ, you would assume Eli is probably released also. Trading Beckham for picks indicates the team realized they are moving in the wrong direction, and they are entering full tear-it-down and start from scratch mode. Anything else would be laughable. And you don't rebuild with an expensive, aging QB.
If for no other reason, OBJ will not be traded because neither Mara nor Gettleman will stand in front of the media and admit they are giving up on a football season before it even begins.
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backed off of it when he was told it isn't possible just to sit out and fake an injury.
Not that it's worthy of rereading but his first line about DG and Shurmur not liking OBJ sitting out the four games was most certainly posted as a fact and not an opinion. At least that's the way it came off to me. There was no "I think" or IMO, or anything like it.
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
I put IMO in there but your saying I should have put imo in the first sentence .......ok Im ok with that jeez the grammar police
I did also say that I dont think the giants brass liked the Lil Wayne bit thats also my opinion and me speculating on it if you want to call me out on it fine but you dont have to be insulting .......
Mara stupidly believed that a couple of quiet months leading up to his pay day was a sign of maturity. The best time to trade him was last year's draft but as Terps said, better late than never.
This post doesn't make any sense. By all accounts, OBJ is a good teammate, on the field he's all business except for the Carolina game and Norman deserves blame there too (when has he ever shown up a teammate?).
If the line is drawn at always answering questions about something - then why is Eli still here? How many questions have been asked about his declining play last 3 years?
And how many questions have to be asked about the offensive line and our linebackers before that gets addressed?
Who gives a shit if coaches and GMs answer questions about him - the guy produces.
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In comment 14295714 Zeke's Alibi said:
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backed off of it when he was told it isn't possible just to sit out and fake an injury.
Not that it's worthy of rereading but his first line about DG and Shurmur not liking OBJ sitting out the four games was most certainly posted as a fact and not an opinion. At least that's the way it came off to me. There was no "I think" or IMO, or anything like it.
Gettleman and Shurmur didnt like the idea of OBJ sitting out the last four games with the mysterious Quad from a little brisk kick by the Phila player ... lets face it he just tapped the leg OBJ imo sat out in revenge to Mara put up or shut up controversy....... We will never win with this guy and I like him thats a shame
I put IMO in there but your saying I should have put imo in the first sentence .......ok Im ok with that jeez the grammar police
I did also say that I dont think the giants brass liked the Lil Wayne bit thats also my opinion and me speculating on it if you want to call me out on it fine but you dont have to be insulting .......
Nah not trying to be the grammar police. To be fair, it was pointed out you did state it as an opinion in your title and I admitted I was mistaken in not seeing that in your title. I only read the text of your post.
However I stand by the respect being earned part of my post. Calling people assholes and expecting respect is a bit hypocritical IMO.
Eli has had a great body of work... and has been highly compensated for it.
But the analogy is clear and my first grade son understands it - the media has asked the GM and Coach(es) about both players in recent years. Why is one not worth the headache but the other is?
As Sy said, that's a nice way for him to get some attention and clicks.
It's not happening. It was never happening.
Not buying it and it would be one of the dumbest moves ever.
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but diva WR's do not win championships. I wanted to trade him before we re-signed him, but I also got suckered into thinking he changed and he was worth the money.
Name the last WR on the level of OBJ or Antonio Brown to win a ring. All I can come up with is Michael Irvin.
He's a distraction, you can't get away from these guys fast enough!
First off... putting AB and OBJ in the same category as far as distractions is ridiculous. AB is a bad dude.
Second... also silly to talk about elite WRs not winning super bowls..
Julio Jones should have won
Randy Moss could have won if not for Eli
Marvin Harrison won
TO did everything possible and could have won if not for McNabb losing his lunch
Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin are a couple others.
Didn't make much of a fuss during his contract year. Has never been arrested, only one suspension for losing his temper on the field.
You trade him and you will quickly learn how much hen helps the other receivers get open.
RE: the injury - sometimes it takes more than a full season to recover. And even if he has slowed he's still better than 95% of the wrs in the league.
He s a great asset, but Giants have not been very good even with his all world talent
Maybe it makes sense to trade him if it garners capital to move forward.
But we might be surprised what another team would offer for this oft injured talent.
Your post may not be popular, but I agree. He appears to have lost that.
Didn't make much of a fuss during his contract year. Has never been arrested, only one suspension for losing his temper on the field.
You trade him and you will quickly learn how much hen helps the other receivers get open.
RE: the injury - sometimes it takes more than a full season to recover. And even if he has slowed he's still better than 95% of the wrs in the league.
^This.
Link - ( New Window )
giants receive:
#33, #65, J rosen
Cardinals receive:
OBJ, 4th rd from NEw Orleans 2019
how we feeling?
giants receive:
#33, #65, J rosen
Cardinals receive:
OBJ, 4th rd from NEw Orleans 2019
once this happens, eli retires because we cant win now and the money we save we sign a WR, a RT and a Center for our new young QB
how we feeling?
Makes no sense. The Giants already evaluated his trade value if the last set of rumors were true. You really think they then negotiated with him and signed him to an extension to just start the trade talks again?!
He s a great asset, but Giants have not been very good even with his all world talent
Maybe it makes sense to trade him if it garners capital to move forward.
But we might be surprised what another team would offer for this oft injured talent.
This implies the Giants can't be good with him here. The fact that the Giants have sucked even with OBJ being here is an indictment of GM and coaching in recent years.
The Rams sucked for years with a terrific defense and some all-world players in Gurley, Donald, etc. Then they brought in a great coach, started drafting well, found their QB, stablized their OL through Whitworth, etc.
How about drafting well for a change and building a good team around Barkley and OBJ?
Catch %: 62.1% (54th amongst WRs)
This is for the WR with the richest contract in the NFL, and the second highest cap hit at the position in 2019.
Doesn't paint a pretty picture.
Catch %: 62.1% (54th amongst WRs)
This is for the WR with the richest contract in the NFL, and the second highest cap hit at the position in 2019.
Doesn't paint a pretty picture.
Thats because he doesnt have Lamar Jackson throwing to him!
have to be a sizable return .
Don't the Rams have Goff to sign yet ? . I am sure
OBJ would love to play out there .
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Yards/reception: 13.7 (29th amongst WRs)
Catch %: 62.1% (54th amongst WRs)
This is for the WR with the richest contract in the NFL, and the second highest cap hit at the position in 2019.
Doesn't paint a pretty picture.
Thats because he doesnt have Lamar Jackson throwing to him!
Again, which dupe are you?
Catch %: 62.1% (54th amongst WRs)
This is for the WR with the richest contract in the NFL, and the second highest cap hit at the position in 2019.
Doesn't paint a pretty picture.
Im no Beckham fan in the least however Id be willing to see how year 2 post injury goes with regards to those numbers you cited. Also Im in no hurry to create another crater on the team. We have enough holes as it stands right now.
I'll bet Mara, Shurmur and co. felt pretty stupid after they watched Beckham sitting next to Lil Wayne of all people talking about playing in LA as the team was getting off to another tough start. As if Shurmur didnt have enough on his plate in year one.
I don't think Glazer's tweet or whatever it was means much either way, but I'd bet a ton of money Beckham caused a hell of a lot of disappointment for ownership/management this season, yet again.
I'll bet Mara, Shurmur and co. felt pretty stupid after they watched Beckham sitting next to Lil Wayne of all people talking about playing in LA as the team was getting off to another tough start. As if Shurmur didnt have enough on his plate in year one.
I don't think Glazer's tweet or whatever it was means much either way, but I'd bet a ton of money Beckham caused a hell of a lot of disappointment for ownership/management this season, yet again.
The same level of disappointment ownership and management has caused us fans the last few years?!
giants receive:
#33, #65, J rosen
Cardinals receive:
OBJ, 4th rd from NEw Orleans 2019
once this happens, eli retires because we cant win now and the money we save we sign a WR, a RT and a Center for our new young QB
how we feeling?
I doubt we get that return but I would take it in a heartbeat, Even with Rosen's poor rookie year.
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here it is(edited)
giants receive:
#33, #65, J rosen
Cardinals receive:
OBJ, 4th rd from NEw Orleans 2019
once this happens, eli retires because we cant win now and the money we save we sign a WR, a RT and a Center for our new young QB
how we feeling?
I doubt we get that return but I would take it in a heartbeat, Even with Rosen's poor rookie year.
LOL yeah they would never do that trade. And what WR do you sign to replace him?! Cobb or Tate? Lol
Maybe you can do that with Bill Belicheck at the helm, but not here.
ALL our elite wideouts go down with injury and it destroys their careers in 3 years. Are we going to now trade OBJ and have Shep be our #1?
IF they do this it will ruin the offseason for me. I don't mind that he dances. I'm not an old school "hand it to the ref" guy. Clinging to that is a recipe for unloading come great players. He's NOT NOT NOT a lockerroom cancer either, despite the hair trigger OBJ haters rhetoric.
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In comment 14295864 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
here it is(edited)
giants receive:
#33, #65, J rosen
Cardinals receive:
OBJ, 4th rd from NEw Orleans 2019
once this happens, eli retires because we cant win now and the money we save we sign a WR, a RT and a Center for our new young QB
how we feeling?
I doubt we get that return but I would take it in a heartbeat, Even with Rosen's poor rookie year.
LOL yeah they would never do that trade. And what WR do you sign to replace him?! Cobb or Tate? Lol
if amari cooper gets a first rounder, obj is worth two. rosen is one, im not even asking for another im asking for a 2nd and 3rd rounder in addition to rosen. they turn around and take murray at #1
In comment 14295598 Chris684 said:
F me!
In comment 14295650 jcn56 said:
Either Beckham's injury took him down a notch from elite status and the Giants are premptively trying to recoup what they can from his contract, both in terms of cap and draft capital.
..or..
The Giants have had enough of Beckham's personality and want him elsewhere. If this is the case, and he goes on to play well elsewhere, it'll just be another sign that this team doesn't know WTF it's doing.
but it can be done. Plenty of examples.
Gronk
Michael Irvin
Ok so there are 2 examples.
I really think it serves this teams future for them to trade him. And have no idea why they resigned him based on this regimes track record.
But does sell tickets and media. And whats wrong w keeping him one more year than trading when his cap hit is worse and he proves he doesn't correlate to winning?
In comment 14295667 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
In comment 14295667 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
OBJ and 6th overall for Rosen.
we can only wish. throw in fitzgerald lol
In comment 14295870 Go Terps said:
Catch %: 62.1% (54th amongst WRs)
This is for the WR with the richest contract in the NFL, and the second highest cap hit at the position in 2019.
Doesn't paint a pretty picture.
In comment 14295870 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Yards/reception: 13.7 (29th amongst WRs)
Catch %: 62.1% (54th amongst WRs)
This is for the WR with the richest contract in the NFL, and the second highest cap hit at the position in 2019.
Doesn't paint a pretty picture.
When you're making excuses for the highest paid player at a position in the league it's a problem. We've spent the last three years doing that for Vernon, and we spent a lot of 2018 doing that for Solder. It's getting old.
He's probably just tired of reading this same story every 2 months.
Is he the only receiver being covered pretty closely and having teams scheme to take him away? Because that didn't seem to bother a lot of other receivers that are also the focal point of their offenses. The only other so called premier WR I could find that was clearly less efficient than Beckham was Jarvis Landry, who was frankly terrible - 54% catches and 12 yards per catch...what a disastrous contract for Cleveland.
Nevertheless, when deep threats like TY Hilton and Tyreek Hill have 3 yards per catch higher than Beckham AND still catch a higher percentage of the passes thrown to them, it's indicative of what we're paying for.
Right or wrong I doubt Beckham is going anywhere. If Gettleman had a mind to trade him he'd have been dealt a year ago.
Link - ( New Window )
OBJ is ranked 29th in that category - 28 wrs better than him?
The offense was pathetic the first half of the seaosn and he still finished with over 100 yards and about 80 yards/game.
I look at his production and the highlight link and bow that we have one of the wrs in the league.
Right or wrong I doubt Beckham is going anywhere. If Gettleman had a mind to trade him he'd have been dealt a year ago.
Gargantuan? It was only $20M just a shade higher than the 1 year FT. While his contract has a lot of guaranteed money, they are in the form of yearly salary. Any trading team would be on the hook for those.
OBJ's Contract. - ( New Window )
OBJ is ranked 29th in that category - 28 wrs better than him?
The offense was pathetic the first half of the seaosn and he still finished with over 100 yards and about 80 yards/game.
I look at his production and the highlight link and bow that we have one of the wrs in the league.
But I just showed you that he wasn't particularly productive in 2018.
And again, we're paying him more than any WR in the league and already we're making excuses?
I don't have to make excuses for him. I base my opinion on the film. People talk about traading him like talent like his si easy to find. It ain't.
18 WRs had 1,000 yards in 2018. Beckham's 87.7 yards per game was 9th in the league, but that number has to be qualified by the fact the Giants targeted him a ton each game...I think he came in at 4th in the league in targets per game.
You want to look at highlights on YouTube and say he's worth $20M, that's fine. But know that he had about the same stats for the season as Tyler Boyd.
Exactly, OBJ still shined on a terrible offense with a terrible line before getting hurt.
Josh Rosen
2019 3rd
For
Odell Beckham Jr.
6th overall
Do you do it?
Quote:
Maybe Beckham pushed the leak? He has seen a lot of losing seasons in NY
IIRC Glazer and Beckham work with the same elite trainer in Los Angeles. It's entirely possible that OBJ or his people have a relationship with Glazer and feed him stuff. Also possible that OBJ said something to the trainer who said something to Glazer.
If anyone was trying to leak a story, why would it buried in a mailbag q and a on a subscription-based news outlet, and not actually a report Glazer would have put through Fox Sports, where it would've gotten the most eyes.
People are reading far too much into this.
Top 5 wr in the league.
Josh Rosen
2019 3rd
For
Odell Beckham Jr.
6th overall
Do you do it?
I take this and run. Of course cards would laugh at this proposal
Top 5 wr in the league.
Odell Beckham is most definitely not a top 5 WR in the league. Nothing objective is going to back that up.
Josh Rosen
2019 3rd
For
Odell Beckham Jr.
6th overall
Do you do it?
I'd take it if the team feels confident in Rosen. I'm not certain they do, hgowever.
Top 5 wr in the league.
Top 3 easy when healthy
Josh Rosen
2019 3rd
For
Odell Beckham Jr.
6th overall
Do you do it?
YEP...
Quote:
You think DCs scheme to stop Tyler Boyd? You get rid of Beckham - that totally changes how teams can game plan. You think teams are worried about Sterling Sheraprd taking over games on a consistent basis?
Top 5 wr in the league.
Odell Beckham is most definitely not a top 5 WR in the league. Nothing objective is going to back that up.
Hes the most matchup proof WR in the league, even more so than Antonio Brown. The stats do back that up.
The stat argument can be debunked pretty easily but its not worth the time.
Regarding a potential trade, Id be ok with it if the return netted multiple pass rushers or multiple quality OL in the draft. But I doubt anyone is willing to give up what it takes to get that. The cap hit could be absorbed relatively easily once Vernon is gone.
Since its doubtful anyone will give up fair value Beckham and the dead hit makes it a little dicey odds are he stays.
He didn't play at all in he preseason, he barely did anything in camp. The first month of the season was basically his training camp and preseason.
He carried the offense by himself in 2016 on an 11 win team.
101 receptions, over 1300 yards, double-digit TD's, and game changing plays in several games en route to wins (BAL, DAL, PHI)
Trading Beckham piles more dead money onto our salary cap now AND later (depending on whether he'd be dealt pre/post-6/1), it creates a new glaring positional hole, and it sends him off when his value is probably its lowest and he's owed a significant amount of money.
If someone blows me away with a Godfather offer, sure - I wouldn't refuse to deal him under any scenario. But again, there are guys here who just want to get rid of him based almost entirely on nothing other than the fact that they don't like him.
Hell, we even had a guy on this thread make up an entire story about him essentially "faking" the leg injury at the end of the past season and purposely sitting games out. That's where we're at when it comes to objectivity and Beckham.
Quote:
You think DCs scheme to stop Tyler Boyd? You get rid of Beckham - that totally changes how teams can game plan. You think teams are worried about Sterling Sheraprd taking over games on a consistent basis?
Top 5 wr in the league.
Odell Beckham is most definitely not a top 5 WR in the league. Nothing objective is going to back that up.
Huh??
The records he set over the first several years back it up. I find this comment absolutely shocking. You can hate him for his personality, which I also find ridiculous, but how can anyone doubt he is a top 5 NFL wr??
He didn't have a top 5 season last year, sure..
But if all we are looking at is a small sample size and most recent performance then I guess Julian Edelman is the best WR on the planet...
$$ aside...if you think there are 5 WRs in the NFL right now that GMs would pick to start their WR corps before Odell you are nuts..
And more to the point, because we're paying him like it's 2014-2016 are we allowed to expect him to put up that kind of production or better? I think we are.
And more to the point, because we're paying him like it's 2014-2016 are we allowed to expect him to put up that kind of production or better? I think we are.
Is it all his fault(I believe he is some what at fault due to injuries)or the facilitators(coaching and QB)?
Josh Rosen
2019 3rd
For
Odell Beckham Jr.
6th overall
Do you do it?
If you think OBJ's slipping, or is a locker room cancer, then you make that deal. I know a lot of BBIers don't like OBJ, but I don't get the sense that Shurmur, Gettelman and ownership feel the same way.
And more to the point, because we're paying him like it's 2014-2016 are we allowed to expect him to put up that kind of production or better? I think we are.
until he is healthy (2017) and playing with a functioning offense (2018) maybe??
Is Bell not a top RB just because he didn't play??
Was Jordan not the best basketball player on the planet when he was playing OF??
Just because he hasn't played and put up historic numbers doesn't mean he suddenly isn't good anymore.
None of this is a criticism of Beckham. It's a criticism of the people that thought it would be a good idea to pay him. For him to be worth it he has to be great...no excuses.
We just went through this garbage with Vernon. Paid him like he was an elite player and he proceeded not to be an elite player to our great detriment. Instead of production we got excuses and rationalizations for his play. It's become the hallmark of this team...saying a guy is elite when he actually isn't.
Glazers best friend is Strahan and hes not looking for clicks.
OBJ incredible talent but not worth the distraction. Not when 26 is the future leader.
We didnt re-sign him to trade him....
DG knows exactly what hes doing.
None of this is a criticism of Beckham. It's a criticism of the people that thought it would be a good idea to pay him. For him to be worth it he has to be great...no excuses.
Fair enough.
I think considering his age, and the fact the contract did happen i'd like to give him another year with a new QB.
It doesn't look like that's going to happen, so they should ship him out, and quite frankly I think he's the one pushing for it.
Seems unlikely.
There were questions about whether he would be limited to start the season.
Has the injury lowered his ceiling to what we saw in 2018? Possibly, but I doubt it. It was a brutal injury, taking 2 years to fully recover should not be surprising at all. If the injury hasn't taken anything away, we should see him return to elite status in 2019. Also, the other side of that coin is he may never be what he once was, and we should be able to determine that as well.
Doesnt mean he wont be traded. Wouldnt shock me if he was.
This I agree with.
97% of his tweets are rap lyrics
I'd be devastated if they traded the dude. Really don't want to take his fathead down...lol.
Prob 2nd worst rumor I've hear regarding Giants this off-season next to the idea of brining in Philadelphia's hero.
Also, what does Beckham have in common with all the people who bend over backwards to kiss his ass? They both think hes some suffering legend who is stuck losing even though he adds plenty to the losing culture around here and was maybe the biggest culprit in them spoiling the best and only playoff opportunity theyve had since SB 46.
He specifically said this wasn't inside info. Just a bold prediction. Of course he's gonna throw one of the most popular players name in there. Needs clicks on the pay site that he now works for.
Or he can't wait to get a halfway decent QB who doesn't miss him running wide open? He wants to win. Everybody knows that isn't happening with Eli at QB.
If you get a king ransom for OBJ then fine, but DG has not exactly shown himself yet to be anywhere close to infallible with his decision making.
I keep OBJ...
If you get a king ransom for OBJ then fine, but DG has not exactly shown himself yet to be anywhere close to infallible with his decision making.
I keep OBJ...
I like the frustrated Googs.
I agree with your take here too.
This one's not difficult.
Quote:
fact that OBJ is covered by pretty closely and teams scheme to take him away from Eli and not just grab stats and wave them around w/o any context
Is he the only receiver being covered pretty closely and having teams scheme to take him away? Because that didn't seem to bother a lot of other receivers that are also the focal point of their offenses. The only other so called premier WR I could find that was clearly less efficient than Beckham was Jarvis Landry, who was frankly terrible - 54% catches and 12 yards per catch...what a disastrous contract for Cleveland.
Nevertheless, when deep threats like TY Hilton and Tyreek Hill have 3 yards per catch higher than Beckham AND still catch a higher percentage of the passes thrown to them, it's indicative of what we're paying for.
TY Hilton and Tyreek Hill signed their contracts a few years ago. The last guy to sign always makes more than he should relative to others at his position. And we sure as hell shouldn't trade OBJ just because on an off year he wasn't as good as two very good receivers. Julio Jones was a couple yards per catch behind those two last year as well.....should Atlanta trade him? DG has made some dumb moves so far but I don't think he's dumb enough to trade Beckham.
I find it laughable that the same person who argues in one thread about them not throwing downfield enough then decides to criticize Beckham because of his yard per catch average in this thread.
Quote:
for a wr isn't productive? Averaging 80 yards a game isn't productive?
18 WRs had 1,000 yards in 2018. Beckham's 87.7 yards per game was 9th in the league, but that number has to be qualified by the fact the Giants targeted him a ton each game...I think he came in at 4th in the league in targets per game.
You want to look at highlights on YouTube and say he's worth $20M, that's fine. But know that he had about the same stats for the season as Tyler Boyd.
!,000 yards isn't bad at all considering the guy really only played 12 games...wonder what the giants record was in games that Beckham hasn't played. Im guessing that won't be a pretty number...
I find it laughable that the same person who argues in one thread about them not throwing downfield enough then decides to criticize Beckham because of his yard per catch average in this thread.
👏 💯☝️
Ha - thanks for linking this thread.
This was the one where KWALL insisted to me that Landry would be the 4th option at best in the Browns passing game this year or something ludicrous.
Who was the Browns leading WR this year?
Jarvis Landry.
Wasn't even close, either - I don't think a WR on that roster was within 30 catches of him.
He was targeted 149 times. The next closet guy on the team was Njoku... with 88.
Good stuff - struck out on 3 pitches in that argument.
Your hate just makes you look like a clown, it's getting obnoxious. Let me guess...if we had Lamar Jackson at QB objs statline would be better ?
I don't think obj gets traded but if he does it better be a haul
He was targeted 149 times. The next closet guy on the team was Njoku... with 88.
Good stuff - struck out on 3 pitches in that argument.
Landry was really awful, though. That still held true.
Your hate just makes you look like a clown, it's getting obnoxious. Let me guess...if we had Lamar Jackson at QB objs statline would be better ?
I don't think obj gets traded but if he does it better be a haul
☝️💯👏
Your hate just makes you look like a clown, it's getting obnoxious. Let me guess...if we had Lamar Jackson at QB objs statline would be better ?
I don't think obj gets traded but if he does it better be a haul
OBJ, circa 2016, is indeed a top 5 WR.
Today? Tougher sell. I think Hopkins has distanced himself. Hill is more explosive. His ability to instantly hit top gear is inhuman right now. Brown is great. Im not a Jones guy, but hes a physical freak. And I have no problem taking a stand that JuJu SS is now a top receiver. I predict the Steelers wont miss a beat without Brown because JuJu will step right into the role.
So until OBJ is OBJ again, hes OBJ light. I didnt see the the explosive first step or the uncanny ability to run away from defenders - yet. And its really a guess if it ever returns. Are you sure its coming back?
Which makes this an ideal time to trade, but with realistic returns. No way will there be multiple ones, etc. Id take a two and a three, and if willing a live body.
Fortunately this is turning into an excellent draft for WRs. There is no OBJ, but there is a lot of quality that will be very productive. And cheaper...
Quote:
Terps...your hate for obj is fucking exhausting. The guy is EASILY a top 5 WR in football. 95% of people would agree. The other 5% are you and NFC East fans who know nothing. The guy is a very good player and makes our team better...I'm only doing it if I get a massive haul. Cooper who is half the player obj is got a first rounder. I want Rosen, #33, #65 at minimum. Obj is a game changing player. Those aren't falling off trees. Chances are there won't be an obj in this draft either.
Your hate just makes you look like a clown, it's getting obnoxious. Let me guess...if we had Lamar Jackson at QB objs statline would be better ?
I don't think obj gets traded but if he does it better be a haul
OBJ, circa 2016, is indeed a top 5 WR.
Today? Tougher sell. I think Hopkins has distanced himself. Hill is more explosive. His ability to instantly hit top gear is inhuman right now. Brown is great. Im not a Jones guy, but hes a physical freak. And I have no problem taking a stand that JuJu SS is now a top receiver. I predict the Steelers wont miss a beat without Brown because JuJu will step right into the role.
So until OBJ is OBJ again, hes OBJ light. I didnt see the the explosive first step or the uncanny ability to run away from defenders - yet. And its really a guess if it ever returns. Are you sure its coming back?
Which makes this an ideal time to trade, but with realistic returns. No way will there be multiple ones, etc. Id take a two and a three, and if willing a live body.
Fortunately this is turning into an excellent draft for WRs. There is no OBJ, but there is a lot of quality that will be very productive. And cheaper...
You and terps out here competing for biggest Moron.
A 2 and 3?!?!
Cooper got a 1....you're saying Cooper is better? Stop.
Obj is at least a first rounder return
As for Cooper, hes not coming off a major injury. Not suggesting hes better, but hes a damn good, younger, and healthier. Plus, I think his trade with Dallas needs to be looked at in full context - Dallas was desperate, so that drove his price up. So its probably a bit of an outlier...
As for Cooper, hes not coming off a major injury. Not suggesting hes better, but hes a damn good, younger, and healthier. Plus, I think his trade with Dallas needs to be looked at in full context - Dallas was desperate, so that drove his price up. So its probably a bit of an outlier...
Desperate for that final piece, it was mid-season.
Gotta be realistic, even if he was playing at 2016 level, he isnt on a 2016 contract either. His value is significantly less than this time last year.
I thought Gordon and Coleman would be there and the TE would play a bigger role. Wrong across the board here. Not wrong on Landrys severely overrated game.
OBJ, circa 2016, is indeed a top 5 WR.
Today? Tougher sell. I think Hopkins has distanced himself. Hill is more explosive. His ability to instantly hit top gear is inhuman right now. Brown is great. Im not a Jones guy, but hes a physical freak. And I have no problem taking a stand that JuJu SS is now a top receiver. I predict the Steelers wont miss a beat without Brown because JuJu will step right into the role.
So until OBJ is OBJ again, hes OBJ light. I didnt see the the explosive first step or the uncanny ability to run away from defenders - yet. And its really a guess if it ever returns. Are you sure its coming back?
Which makes this an ideal time to trade, but with realistic returns. No way will there be multiple ones, etc. Id take a two and a three, and if willing a live body."
Didn't I post a link to an OBJ highlights video for 2018 a bit back?
Didn't he ALWAYS have double coverage assigned him somehow, a safety over the top, a virtual cage of defenders around him on damn near every reception of his highlights tape?
So how the fuck you figure he's bring covered when it's NOT part of his highlights reel?
OBJ gets respect from opposition DC as if he is very much a top 5 WR. And that is why he makes less big plays than he once did - at least it's the main reason.
Don't be stupid and formulate your narrative based on stats; watch the tape.
The Beckham fans are a sensitive bunch.
2018 Film OBJ - ( New Window )
...only making the playoffs one year with OBJ.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the Giants been saddled with the worst fucking offensive line since OBJ has been here?
Giants have to be real, real careful about trading this guy. Frankly, I was hugely disappointed when we drafted OBJ over Aaron Donald, but OBJ is still a big time play-maker that defenses have to be aware of on every single snap.
You just don't replace a guy like that! Very hard to do!!!
Jay Glazer
Verified account
@JayGlazer
10h10 hours ago
More
For all you fucksticks who spewed shit at me, my kid, my mom, my moms kid, my kids mom, my head size, body size, intelligence, my moms intelligence all because I made a prediction about your team today save your ridiculous fuckin insults for shit that matters in life.
Didn't I post a link to an OBJ highlights video for 2018 a bit back?
Didn't he ALWAYS have double coverage assigned him somehow, a safety over the top, a virtual cage of defenders around him on damn near every reception of his highlights tape?
So how the fuck you figure he's bring covered when it's NOT part of his highlights reel?
OBJ gets respect from opposition DC as if he is very much a top 5 WR. And that is why he makes less big plays than he once did - at least it's the main reason.
Don't be stupid and formulate your narrative based on stats; watch the tape.
OBJ has been getting extra coverage for a long time. Thats hardly new.
Where did I mention any stats? I said OBJ didnt appear to be all the way back from injury. I didnt see the same explosiveness. Did I expect that would take time? Absolutely.
Maybe, though, he never returns to full form. And thats my point. 90% of the original OBJ is still very good. But its not unique. Fortunately finding good receivers is easier than ever. And this draft has s deep, excellent supply. So this might be the ideal time to unload him.
In OBJs defense, btw, he may not want to play anymore with a 38 year old QB with eroding skills. It was very obvious last year he got very frustrated with Elis inability to find him and take the check down. I also got the sense he doesnt like playing second fiddle in the offense. Barkley is clearly going to get a larger role and that will likely reduce OBJs touches even more. That could create some real friction...
He also understands his recent tweets with a Goat emoji would create even more drama
There is even speculation that a goat emoji is meant to be associated with a RAM........./ It s different out here? -
Not really a stretch to believe this guy wants out.
I think there is a certainly a possibility this happens during this off season
Jay Glazer
Verified account
@JayGlazer
10h10 hours ago
More
For all you fucksticks who spewed shit at me, my kid, my mom, my moms kid, my kids mom, my head size, body size, intelligence, my moms intelligence all because I made a prediction about your team today save your ridiculous fuckin insults for shit that matters in life.
Why is it roid rage? If people are attacking his family, then he can't respond this way? He is right...
He also understands his recent tweets with a Goat emoji would create even more drama
There is even speculation that a goat emoji is meant to be associated with a RAM........./ It s different out here? -
Not really a stretch to believe this guy wants out.
I think there is a certainly a possibility this happens during this off season
you cracked it!
+1
Next year is a different story.
Next year is a different story.
Actually, I'm an idiot - was looking at the cut #. They would save $5MM if they trade him, $17MM after June 1.
Disclaimer: Not that I am advocating a trade or not. I'm just curious. I am not saying it's something OBJ would consider or not either. Just a thought.
I thought Gordon and Coleman would be there and the TE would play a bigger role. Wrong across the board here. Not wrong on Landrys severely overrated game.
LOL, you literally couldn't have been more wrong about basically everything in that thread. You made several claims - none of which came close to being true.
Just eat it and move on. You hate being wrong, I get it. But you struck out terribly there.
He doesn't suck. He was the same WR he was last year. You guys were killing him for his 8.8 YPR number last year and said all he did was catch bubble screens.
That number jumped back up to 12 this year.
He was the best WR on a team that won 7 more games this year than it did the year before without him there.
No one can ever just say "yeah, I was wrong" - there always has to be some sort of "yeah, but!"
In this case, it's that he "sucks"
He doesn't suck. He's a good player.
Odell has been a constant in our losing 4 of the last 5 seasons. This is fun....
amiritie?
Odell has been a constant in our losing 4 of the last 5 seasons. This is fun....
amiritie?
That's my argument for Eli, too. ;)
I also wouldn't be surprised if that "step" he seemed to have lost last season re-appears this September, with a full year gone by.
Quote:
jsut because I find these threads more amusing and rather not participating in them.
Odell has been a constant in our losing 4 of the last 5 seasons. This is fun....
amiritie?
That's my argument for Eli, too. ;)
Yup, both of them should be gone.
I really only remember one play last year where he had space after the catch to do damage. I'm sure there were more, but it seems like he was blanketed pretty well on most receptions.
Quote:
jsut because I find these threads more amusing and rather not participating in them.
Odell has been a constant in our losing 4 of the last 5 seasons. This is fun....
amiritie?
That's my argument for Eli, too. ;)
Yeah but we got only one more losing season with Eli.... why fester with many more years with Odell. Duh!
#getridoftheconstants!
1.) Eli
2.) OBJ
3.) OV
4.) N. Solder
5.) Jackrabbit
Is there a worse performing top 5 on any other team in the NFL?
Talk about not getting bang for your buck!
1.) Star L.
2.) J. Hughes
3.) Shady M.
4.) Charles Clay
5.) Trent Murphy
That's just dreadful.
Also, this wasn't a just one-off comment that he said on a podcast or radio interview. He was given some questions (mailbag) and he chose this specific prediction to write his response. He has been connected in the industry and specifically to the Giants from before he became he is today. He doesn't need to make an outlandish claim to prop up a reputation.
1.) Eli
2.) OBJ
Talk about not getting bang for your buck!
On top of that, we have a No. 2 pick at running back, and 2nd round pick at no. 2 receiver, and a 1st round pick at TE.
All for offensive production that hasn't better than mediocre since 2016.
I hate business analogies, but it you were investing this many resources in a department that was struggling this bad, you would make changes. And you would probably start without the highest earners who are producing the least (although yes OBJ has produced but he also hasn't stayed on the field).
Instead we've been playing organizational whack-a-mole, plugging holes that pop up because of bad investments elsewhere. Guess what? Once we finally shore up the offensive line and give them a year or two to get settled, Shep and Engram's contracts will have expired, and Barkley will be entering the final year of his rookie deal.
5-11 nobody is untouchable. OBJ is as close as it gets though. And not so much because of his talent as his cap hit. It would have to be one hell of an offer. He's a top talent at his position. He's passionate about his game and winning. While he rarely gets in trouble for his mouth his actions can sometimes be questionable. He is oft been injured. Lets not cling to anybody too much OR be too ready to cast such rare talent off.
They have to have a plan that they stick to (unlike the recent Cleveland Browns Saga).
Also, this wasn't a just one-off comment that he said on a podcast or radio interview. He was given some questions (mailbag) and he chose this specific prediction to write his response. He has been connected in the industry and specifically to the Giants from before he became he is today. He doesn't need to make an outlandish claim to prop up a reputation.
Reporters often double as analysts, giving their opinion. A line exists between a reporter conducting news, and engaging in a 'bold prediction' question. Not everything a beat writer says means they know something unspoken. If you follow any of the Giants beat writers on twitter, they often give their opinions on subjects when asked. It doesn't mean they have insider knowledge, and they will often freely tell you they don't know anything behind it.
And this is the reason people on twitter jump down Glazer's throat. The average person seems to think that if you are recognized as a reporter, then everything that you say is a report based on fact. Sometimes it's just a thought or an idea.
If this is true, he needs to be traded ASAP. He is no position to want anything.
Quote:
He was the leading receiver with 900 yards in 16 games on his 150 targets? Ok. He still sucks and not worth anything close to thta contract. Miami made the right move. Cleveland didnt. Still could be cut after next year.
I thought Gordon and Coleman would be there and the TE would play a bigger role. Wrong across the board here. Not wrong on Landrys severely overrated game.
LOL, you literally couldn't have been more wrong about basically everything in that thread. You made several claims - none of which came close to being true.
Just eat it and move on. You hate being wrong, I get it. But you struck out terribly there.
He doesn't suck. He was the same WR he was last year. You guys were killing him for his 8.8 YPR number last year and said all he did was catch bubble screens.
That number jumped back up to 12 this year.
He was the best WR on a team that won 7 more games this year than it did the year before without him there.
No one can ever just say "yeah, I was wrong" - there always has to be some sort of "yeah, but!"
In this case, it's that he "sucks"
He doesn't suck. He's a good player.
Landry caught 54% of the passes thrown to him. He averaged 12.0 yards per catch. He needed 149 targets (10th in the NFL) to get to 976 yards and 4 TDs.
That is absolutely horrific.
Quote:
I think he wants a new quarterback.
If this is true, he needs to be traded ASAP. He is no position to want anything.
this is what Odell wants
"I love Eli," Beckham told reporters when asked if he wanted him as his quarterback in 2019. "I've been with Eli - he's the first quarterback I've ever had in the league. I threw at him, Manning Camp, high school. There's a lot of things you want in life. You can't always get what you want, but at the end of the day I want him to be able to go home and talk trash to his brothers. When it's his time to go out, I want him to go out the right way."
By talking trash, Beckham means getting Manning that third Super Bowl ring to top his brother, Peyton, who collected two in his 15-year career.
"I want him to go out with a trophy so he can go home and, not rub it in their face, but he's got three rings, they got two, or whatever it is.," Beckham said. "That's what I want for him. That's how I want him to finish. It has nothing to do with me. It's not my call. I'm just a receiver. That's above my paygrade."
Beckham wants Manning 'to go out with a trophy' - ( New Window )
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In comment 14296282 KWALL2 said:
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He was the leading receiver with 900 yards in 16 games on his 150 targets? Ok. He still sucks and not worth anything close to thta contract. Miami made the right move. Cleveland didnt. Still could be cut after next year.
I thought Gordon and Coleman would be there and the TE would play a bigger role. Wrong across the board here. Not wrong on Landrys severely overrated game.
LOL, you literally couldn't have been more wrong about basically everything in that thread. You made several claims - none of which came close to being true.
Just eat it and move on. You hate being wrong, I get it. But you struck out terribly there.
He doesn't suck. He was the same WR he was last year. You guys were killing him for his 8.8 YPR number last year and said all he did was catch bubble screens.
That number jumped back up to 12 this year.
He was the best WR on a team that won 7 more games this year than it did the year before without him there.
No one can ever just say "yeah, I was wrong" - there always has to be some sort of "yeah, but!"
In this case, it's that he "sucks"
He doesn't suck. He's a good player.
Landry caught 54% of the passes thrown to him. He averaged 12.0 yards per catch. He needed 149 targets (10th in the NFL) to get to 976 yards and 4 TDs.
That is absolutely horrific.
Sure it is - when you just take numbers without context. You obviously watched zero Browns games.
This is generally what happens when you play with Tyrod Taylor and a rookie QB.
The percentage of balls a WR catches that are thrown to him aren't necessarily entirely dependent on the WR - I shouldn't need to explain that to you.
It's the same reason Michael Crabtree posted a career low catch % (54%) this year.
Julian Edelman was at the top of the league in dropped passes. He was the SB MVP.
Numbers without context are fun.
I can name 100 WR's in this league who suck. Landry isn't one of them.
Shouldn't it be Gettleman to squash the rumor. He is the only one who can trade OBJ. OBJ has no control.
That said, I'm sure he doesn't mind the attention and he seems to like to rile up his haters, which I find pretty funny. The looking at the solar eclipse bit was a pretty good gag that exposed a lot of people's bias and lack of critical thinking skills.
Sure it is - when you just take numbers without context. You obviously watched zero Browns games.
This is generally what happens when you play with Tyrod Taylor and a rookie QB.
The percentage of balls a WR catches that are thrown to him aren't necessarily entirely dependent on the WR - I shouldn't need to explain that to you.
It's the same reason Michael Crabtree posted a career low catch % (54%) this year.
Julian Edelman was at the top of the league in dropped passes. He was the SB MVP.
Numbers without context are fun.
I can name 100 WR's in this league who suck. Landry isn't one of them.
Just to round this point out...
The other WR, Calloway was also at 54%. And the TE Njoku was 63%.
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Sure it is - when you just take numbers without context. You obviously watched zero Browns games.
This is generally what happens when you play with Tyrod Taylor and a rookie QB.
The percentage of balls a WR catches that are thrown to him aren't necessarily entirely dependent on the WR - I shouldn't need to explain that to you.
It's the same reason Michael Crabtree posted a career low catch % (54%) this year.
Julian Edelman was at the top of the league in dropped passes. He was the SB MVP.
Numbers without context are fun.
I can name 100 WR's in this league who suck. Landry isn't one of them.
Just to round this point out...
The other WR, Calloway was also at 54%. And the TE Njoku was 63%.
All you even need to do is look at Landry's other NFL seasons.
2014 - 75%
2015 - 66.3%
2016 - 71.8%
2017 - 69.6%
2018 - 54.4%
Gee - does anything there look out of place?
If you're being reasonable, it's pretty easy to see how the Giants could be really pissed off and maybe at a loss with the guy.
Constantly deal with immature behavior up to the start of contract negotiations, at which point the owner felt compelled to publicly comment (after another stupid public non-football issue) that it's time to grow up if it's going to work here. Add in all the attempts to make nice from the new regime in hopes of getting off on the right foot and two months off good behavior from Odell himself and we arrived at the happy new mega-deal.
It took a couple of months for Odell to make more headlines that included leaving much open for interpretation in terms of calling out coaches and playing for the organization that just handsomely rewarded him.
It's not hard to imagine John Mara questioning the organization's relationship with him at this point.
I think we all understand he can't control trades.
Collins is a free agent
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Collins.
Collins is a free agent
Only way would be tie up the cap by tagging him while requiring him to sign the tag and then traded. Likely not happening.
The time to trade Collins was last season. We will either sign him or let him walk.
With the $$ sign a better player in Albert Wilson with more $$$$ to improve the team with other players. Miami was correct there too and so was I...Muwahahahaha
Yes he was the best WR on a team with no other WRs except a 4th round rookie who was banged up. They were looking at Dez Bryant and anything else they coke fish because they had nothing at the position. Mayfield had no help at Wr and that includes Landry and limited game and huge drops. He played like a nobody. A guy nobody cares about or bothers with in the game plan. That is Landry.
Browns have a lot of talent at every position except WR. Worst unit on the teamlead by the worst #1 WR in the NFlL.
With the $$ sign a better player in Albert Wilson with more $$$$ to improve the team with other players. Miami was correct there too and so was I...Muwahahahaha
Yes he was the best WR on a team with no other WRs except a 4th round rookie who was banged up. They were looking at Dez Bryant and anything else they coke fish because they had nothing at the position. Mayfield had no help at Wr and that includes Landry and limited game and huge drops. He played like a nobody. A guy nobody cares about or bothers with in the game plan. That is Landry.
Browns have a lot of talent at every position except WR. Worst unit on the teamlead by the worst #1 WR in the NFlL.
Albert Wilson missed half the season. He caught 26 passes in 7 games. You said he'd make Miami forget all about Landry and put perform him. Didn't happen.
Gotta be on the field to make a difference. Wilson was not on the field for more than half the season.
You'll come up with some batshit way of trying to prove that Zay Jones is better than Jarvis Landry, though - I'm sure of it!
Wilson is a better player too. He got hurt. It happens.
I was 100% right that Miami made the right move not giving the cash to Landry. Was I wrong about Gordon, Coleman and the TE being bigger players in CLE? Yes. Are you right about Landry? Not close.
Cleveland? Pissed that money away on a severely limited olayer. If theyre smart, theyll fix the problem at the WR position this off season. If they do they can make the playoffs.
Landry is one of those most overpaid guys in the league right now. Another season like he just had and CLE will cut him to avoid the Guaranteed money that kicks in at the start of 2020 season. Hes worth maybe 4-5 million. Not the $13 million+ that would guaranteed for the 2020 season.
Put both players on the market right now and every single team would offer Landry more money .
Wilson is a one trick pony who had 1 really big game - every other week he did nothing but catch 2-3 balls. He's a guy you can hit big plays with here and there, but you'll never get consistency out of him. They didn't get it in KC, and Miami won't get that from him either. He's not a #1. Not even a starter, really.
I was on the money about what Landry's role would be in Cleveland. You couldn't have been more wrong.
Suck it up.
Albert Wilson has accomplished none of that.
BTW, what is Wilsons one trick? He can do many things. Going forward hes the better player and a much better value. Every team would not take Landry over Wilson. Miami didnt. And they were right.
Wilson's best season in the NFL right now is a 42 catch, 550 yard, 3 touchdown season. He's managed 16 games one time in his 5 year career.
And you're not reading what I wrote. I said every team would offer Landry more money than Wilson - meaning if they were putting a value on each player, Landry would get significantly more money. I don't need to prove that because it just happened last year and it would happen again right now.
Wilson is a nobody. Most of the games he's played in this league, he's been a total non factor.
He's a guy who catches 3 balls for 35 yards most weeks. Hell, against NE he was even able to turn 4 catches into 19 yards!
What a player.
They sucked again in 2018 and fired their coach.
Looks like a team that really has their shit together...
Which team do you think is handling their business better right now? The Browns or the Dolphins?
I know which one I'd hitch my wagon to right now...
They sucked again in 2018 and fired their coach.
Looks like a team that really has their shit together...
Which team do you think is handling their business better right now? The Browns or the Dolphins?
I know which one I'd hitch my wagon to right now...
Miami.
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Speaking of Miami...
They sucked again in 2018 and fired their coach.
Looks like a team that really has their shit together...
Which team do you think is handling their business better right now? The Browns or the Dolphins?
I know which one I'd hitch my wagon to right now...
Miami.
LOL. You'll never pass on a chance to go against the grain - at least you're consistent.
Cleveland has a QB, more talent, a GM with a plan and just +7'd their win total from the year before.
I'll take the Browns and if you want to make friendly a bet that they'll be the better team in 2019, I'll gladly take you up on that.
I completely agree that Cleveland has more talent, but I think Miami hit with their coach. I don't think Cleveland did. And as we saw with the Giants in 2018 a shitty head coach will undercut talent.
The Giants have holes everywhere.
The Giants have holes everywhere.
How about our fucking timing back for starters.
Even with that, the rookies they had were injured often. They had nothing at WR all year except Landry. You measure his success or effectiveness by the number of targets? Thats a joke.
He wasnt effective. Lead the NFL in drips. Doesnt get open. Caught barely half the balls his way. Very few big plays on the 150 opportunities. If they are smart, theyll bring players in to give this opportunities to in 2019.
The contract and Trade by CLE was terrible. He proved he wasnt worth it. Chances of CLE cutting him after 2 season? Id say very good.
When the contract first came out it was $45 mill guaranteed but a nice chunk of that requires Landry on the 2020 roster in week 1. He wont make it. Hes a 4 million/year player making 15+. Awful move by CLE which we saw this year by his awful performance.
Wilson? That guy gets open. Wide open. I forget the site but there is one out there that measures separation and hes at the top of the league. They get a QB hell put up the bug numbers and become one of the best values at his posttion. Just the opposite of Landry who is clearly one of the worst values at any position in the NFL.
Now the Browns look to be trending upwards, drafted a potential franchise QB, who is cost controlled (I know that is big for you), have a competent GM in place, cap room to spend, etc... Basically, they have everything you so adamantly bash the Giants for
Yet you would go with Miami? Who have no plan at QB, a new coach who is a Belichick disciple and no real talent on the roster.
Now the Browns look to be trending upwards, drafted a potential franchise QB, who is cost controlled (I know that is big for you), have a competent GM in place, cap room to spend, etc... Basically, they have everything you so adamantly bash the Giants for
Yet you would go with Miami? Who have no plan at QB, a new coach who is a Belichick disciple and no real talent on the roster.
I think Cleveland made a big mistake with their coaching hire.
Yes Id take CLE roster over Miami too and it has nothing to do with Landry.
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What talent?
The Giants have holes everywhere.
How about our fucking timing back for starters.
The guy who just won RoY and had one of the best years ever for a rookie RB?
Uh.. okay. Sure. Shurmur totally sabotaged him.
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You are strange guy to figure out. You will always find a way to bash the Giants. You will point to the contracts they gave out, not drafting a QB, etc..
Now the Browns look to be trending upwards, drafted a potential franchise QB, who is cost controlled (I know that is big for you), have a competent GM in place, cap room to spend, etc... Basically, they have everything you so adamantly bash the Giants for
Yet you would go with Miami? Who have no plan at QB, a new coach who is a Belichick disciple and no real talent on the roster.
I think Cleveland made a big mistake with their coaching hire.
Yet, you know that Brian Flores isn't in Miami?
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In comment 14297378 arcarsenal said:
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What talent?
The Giants have holes everywhere.
How about our fucking timing back for starters.
The guy who just won RoY and had one of the best years ever for a rookie RB?
Uh.. okay. Sure. Shurmur totally sabotaged him.
A lot of those yards, especially as a receiver, were empty. There were over a dozen running backs who were more efficiently and effectively used as a receiver. I broke that down on another thread; I don't feel like doing it again.
The way you're overrating this guy to make a point is getting silly. He's done absolutely nothing of note in this league in 5 years. Casual fans wouldn't even know who he was.
I also didn't measure Landry's effectiveness by his targets - again, poor reading comp by you - I said the idea that he'd see a 60% cut was a complete joke. You said he'd be all bent out of shape and see little usage there - not close to true.
Here's what I said...
He will lead the team in catches this season. Book it.
Was I wrong about any of that?
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In comment 14297382 Go Terps said:
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In comment 14297378 arcarsenal said:
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What talent?
The Giants have holes everywhere.
How about our fucking timing back for starters.
The guy who just won RoY and had one of the best years ever for a rookie RB?
Uh.. okay. Sure. Shurmur totally sabotaged him.
A lot of those yards, especially as a receiver, were empty. There were over a dozen running backs who were more efficiently and effectively used as a receiver. I broke that down on another thread; I don't feel like doing it again.
The guy had a record-setting season and you're still unhappy with his production. What do you expect? 150 catches? 3000 yards?
He produced plenty. That's the bottom line. Efficiency is not something directly attributed to the coach and the player - there are 21 other guys on the field at all times who impact that.
PFF is what it is - but they ranked him the top RB in the entire league in 2018.
I get that you don't like the coach, but the way you're bending over backwards to avoid giving him any credit for anything and find every way other the sun to make things his fault is exhausting.
Barkley was sensational in year 1. No one on the planet who watched would argue anything other than that.
He made plays and showed plenty of ability. Miami liked him for a bigger role. They gave him a nice deal and it wasnt based on doing nothing.
The Bears and his former coach wanted him too.
I liked Wilson before this Landry thing with you. I thought the Giants should have made him a priority as a young guy with unique skills who could develop on his 2nd contract.
I didn't say he's done nothing - I said he's done nothing of note. He hasn't! There's literally no accomplishment you can point to for Albert Wilson as a player. He's earned zero awards, he's not a #1, he's barely even on anyone's radar in terms of the true WR talent in this league. He's never been on an all pro team, an all rookie team, he's never been considered a top 100 player.
Albert Wilson averages 2.4 receptions per game.
Let's just end the nonsense right there. He's not an impact WR no matter how many times you tell me "he gets so open!"
Ill take Wilson going forward. Better value. And will be the better player.
The end for now. We can check back in on this I Nov.
When Jarvis Landry is doubling Wilson's production like he's been doing their entire careers, we can revisit. :)
The one part of the argument I agree with is that Wilson could provide better contractual value.
Landry is making too much for the player he is - but that's unfortunately true of most guys who get new deals in this league. He doesn't suck like you guys keep saying he does. He's just not as good as the guys making comparable money like Hopkins or Diggs.
He's still a much better player than Albert Wilson, who at $8M per is also well overpaid. He might be a better "value" than Landry but he's at best a low end #2 WR.
As he should. He's done absolutely nothing in his career that should lead anyone to believe otherwise.
He's still a much better player than Albert Wilson, who at $8M per is also well overpaid. He might be a better "value" than Landry but he's at best a low end #2 WR.
And I agree with this entire post.
100 catches
1234 yards
9 TDs
5 drops
Landry:
81 catches
976 yards
4 TDs
11 drops
Landry = overrated.
Wilson gets the snaps, hell produce. He was averaging 25 snaps/game in first 4 weeks with the new team but it doubled as he was getting a bigger role. Hes more than a 1 trick guy. Im going with Wilson as the better player and much better value. And I would bet on Landry getting cut next year before that guarantee kicks in. It will be a 2 year deal in CLE for Landry.
100 catches
1234 yards
9 TDs
5 drops
Landry:
81 catches
976 yards
4 TDs
11 drops
Landry = overrated.
Wilson gets the snaps, hell produce. He was averaging 25 snaps/game in first 4 weeks with the new team but it doubled as he was getting a bigger role. Hes more than a 1 trick guy. Im going with Wilson as the better player and much better value. And I would bet on Landry getting cut next year before that guarantee kicks in. It will be a 2 year deal in CLE for Landry.
Your argument was that Landry sucks, not that he was overrated.
The time to trade Beckham has passed. It would be moronic to turn around and do it now.
Thanks arc. It is stunning that so-called journalists dont take cap implications into account when evaluating this stuff.
My point all along was Miami should hot have paid him and nobody should. Once the trade was made they would be the big winners in the trade, getting picks and the cap space for better talent/value). And that it was a terrible move for CLE (which his play in 18 didnt change).
I also like the move MIA made of signing Wilson (who I think is better and would make MIA a better team going forward) and they still had an extra $10mill/year for another player.
100 catches
1234 yards
9 TDs
5 drops
Landry:
81 catches
976 yards
4 TDs
11 drops
Landry = overrated.
Wilson gets the snaps, hell produce. He was averaging 25 snaps/game in first 4 weeks with the new team but it doubled as he was getting a bigger role. Hes more than a 1 trick guy. Im going with Wilson as the better player and much better value. And I would bet on Landry getting cut next year before that guarantee kicks in. It will be a 2 year deal in CLE for Landry.
A) why 149 targets? Why not 100 or 150? I don't have a horse in this race but when I see something like that it wreaks of an agenda and I immediately dismiss the argument. Holy random.
B) one guy draws double teams and number one cover corners. The other guy isn't on the field enough to warrant game planning
I do agree Landry is overpaid though
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Wilson:
100 catches
1234 yards
9 TDs
5 drops
Landry:
81 catches
976 yards
4 TDs
11 drops
Landry = overrated.
Wilson gets the snaps, hell produce. He was averaging 25 snaps/game in first 4 weeks with the new team but it doubled as he was getting a bigger role. Hes more than a 1 trick guy. Im going with Wilson as the better player and much better value. And I would bet on Landry getting cut next year before that guarantee kicks in. It will be a 2 year deal in CLE for Landry.
Your argument was that Landry sucks, not that he was overrated.
He'll just move the goalposts until he can find somewhere to stick his flag. If you go back to the thread from last year, you'll see that he as wrong about pretty much everything he predicted - many of those predictions weren't even close to true.
Next year we'll be talking about how open Albert Wilson gets again but blame something like poor QB play for sabotaging him.
I guess because Landry saw 149 targets last year, that's the arbitrary measuring stick - we're using those 149 targets but not a different 149 targets from other years. It's just argument re-framing to find something not to be wrong about at this point.
I never said Landry wasn't overpaid. Hell, Wilson's actual contract value may prove to be better - but at equal value, no exec is taking Wilson over Landry. You can do whatever you want to trick yourself into believing otherwise, but no one would. Landry is the better player with all things being equal.
Wilson isn't even the best WR on his team. Kenny Stills is better than he is and has had a better career to date.
Landry was the best WR on every Dolphins team he played for and was again the top WR in Cleveland - not the 4th option which was a hilariously off-base proclamation.
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But I highly doubt cap wise it would be even feasible to trade him. There would probably be an insane dead money hit since his contract is so new and they would be paying it for years.
IF that 16 million number is true it is absolutely feasible, especially if it brings back 2-3 cost controlled players. This team isn't going to anywhere next year regardless. Could be a signal that they don't like the QBs this year and want ammo for next year.
you might just be right about this, if the team does decide to keep Eli for next season it sort of means they are writing it off and don't expect much and so it them makes sense to try to see how they can load up for 2020.....
Wilson needed 3 years to reach 149 targets.
Wilson's snap count jumped (doubled) in the 3 games before he was injured last year. He's a tough guy to cover. He can catch and he's a strong runner.
I know I'm in the minority here but I think he has great upside and can be a better player than Landry (who I think is one of the most overrated players in the NFL). I really wanted Wilson to the Giants last year.
He hit FA and there was a lot more interest then I expected. He got a very nice deal from MIA. I think he makes them a better team straight up with Landry. Factor in the $$$$ savings and the picks they got from CLE and its a big win for MIA.
Hopefully he plays 16 next year and we'll see.
And the #1 CB does not follow him.
He in the slot all game.
If you have Landry on one side and Wilson on the other. I put the better cover guy on Wilson.